The Great Gatsby

[RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie]

I don't like it much but I need to start doing so, before dd disowns me. SO please can you tell me - a) why you think it is brilliant and b) other novels which would work well as companion pieces to it (eg I think Breakfast At Tiffany's might).

[notnowbernard]

It's one of the v few books I couldn't finish

I just found it so dull (probably spectacularly missing the point somewhere)

I got to about p50

[DustyMoth]

Haven't read Breakfast at Tiffany's but might now. I quite enjoyed The Great Gatsby, but more for it's style than its substance, iykwim.

[uncongenial]

I've read it and I really couldn't see what the fuss was about.

Gatsby is infuriating that he cannot (can he?) see Daisy for what she is. Mooning about her still, all those years later.

[RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie]

You're not helping here, ladies! :)

[NotTreadingGrapes]

Neither Gatsby nor Daisy are particularly likeable.

Daisy would be a thicko wag in this day and age and Gatsby is the sort of wet drip who would sit outside your house and cry until your Dad went out to him.

That said, it contains some of the most beautiful passages ever written. The final paragraph is engraved on my soul.

Strangely, other books which have the same "I wish I could write sentences like that" effect on me have been lots of Graham Greene and John le Carre, some of DH Lawrence (when he's not being a dirty old shagger) and a few Simone de Beauvoir.

[thecatfromjapan]

There have been quite a few threads on The Great Gatsby: for some reason it does seem to alienate and breed adoration in equal measure. You might want to look back over a few of the old ones.

Lots of people admire Fitzgerald's analysis of capitalism and glamour; his early insight into celebrity and popular culture; and the writing - the amazing writing.

There is something in the way he transmutes the libidinal allure of money clashing with deep moral reservations about wealth into a language both saturated with desire and fulfilment and tense with control, that makes Fitzgerald a supreme writer.

The plot is virtually a modern archetype: a criminal redeemed (in a fashion) only by a somewhat stupid, childish - but loyal and deep - attraction/adoration for a selfish, spoilt, rich girl - from old wealth; the bad not getting their just desserts; lots of morally flawed characters; unreliable narrator ... It's a rich template that lends itself to the telling of modern stories. Think of what Alan Hollinghurst did with it in "The Line of Beauty". So, it's a cultural meme, too.

It's also an amazing meditation on the allure of the shallow and the vacuous - which is something that you've picked up on (though I think you feel it hasn't shaken itself loose of the vacuous glamour that is its theme). That also makes it very modern and compelling.

[RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie]

Thanks Cat - that's exactly what I'm after, though I absolutely detested The Line Of Beauty too! Morally flawed characters and unreliable narrators - mmmm: American Psycho maybe?! Sallinger?

[fuzzpig]

Haven't read it. Wouldn't mind seeing the new film though.

[thecatfromjapan]

Yes, yes. Those are two unreliable narrators definitely in the mode of GG. I would guess that American Psycho is definitely written with an eye on GG. All the product placements, the wry look at contemporary American consumerist/capitalist culture ... all v. GG.

Salinger would be a good comparison. Interesting, too, because the narrator in Catcher is so obsessed with the seeming loss of some kind of authenticity. The judgement of superficiality and "seeming" in GG is present, but quite hard to pin down.

[RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie]

I keep thinking of Evelyn Waugh too (but tbh I often do!). DD has read all those though.

Pig - the film looks stunning, at least in terms of costumes. :)

[thecatfromjapan]

IS your dd aiming to write a comparative essay?

[bluebump]

I've just re-read it this week ready for the film, I still loved it.

[redlac]

Utter utter shitehole of a book. THIS blasted shitehole book is the reason I failed my Higher English. Utter pish.

[Hassled]

I think I love it less for the plot and more for the writing. Very few unnecessary words - it's tight, and so evocative - Daisy's voice being full of money, and phrases like "men and girls came and went like moths among the whisperings and the champagne and the stars" - it conjours up such a perfect image of the party and the mood.
And it's such book of its time - the start of the American Dream, the hopefulness for the future.

[RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie]

DD is trying to convince me to love it, by connecting it with other books which I may like more! Also, she's looking for more things to read herself and discussing them in the light of Gatsby (which she says is her favourite book ever) seems an interesting direction to go in, in choosing something new for her.

[fuzzpig]

Is it quite accessible? I'm not particularly good at reading a lot of classics, I do find them too wordy (processing issues) but I would like to read more...

[Hassled]

Remus - has your DD read Tender is the Night? I think I prefer it to the GG. Again, beautiful writing.

fuzzpig - yes, I'd say it's accessible. Certainly worth a go!

[RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie]

She has, Hassled.

[RedHelenB]

Love it - feel so sorry for Gatsby who doesn't fit in & think it is so true that people like Tom do what they want & get away with it. Nick starts off being disdainful of Gatsby but in the end comes to see that he has more admirable qualities than the "old rich". You read it & you are in that world - I love the scene where it is so hot that they are all restless - I could be in the antartic but i would still feel red hot reading it!

[hackmum]

thecat: "Think of what Alan Hollinghurst did with it in "The Line of Beauty". So, it's a cultural meme, too."

Thing is, I adore The Line of Beauty. I like it much better than I do Gatsby.

I've read Gatsby twice: once when I was quite young (early 20s) and again recently, more than 25 years later. I think it's beautifully written, but I still can't take to it. It's essentially about a group of self-absorbed, shallow rich people - and I know Fitzgerald has complete disdain for these people, but I wonder if they're worth writing about at all? If they were self-absorbed, shallow coal miners, would anyone have bothered writing a book about them?

Interesting that when it first came out it was critically panned. People didn't "get" it. But something happened between then and now to make it revered as one of the great American novels. I think that in itself is noteworthy - something to do with the way the cultural and political context shifted in the 20th century. I think it's taken on a significance that it doesn't really deserve. But I'm prepared for people to argue against that. It could be that I'm just missing something important.

[MrsBartlet]

I didn't enjoy it at all when I read it (over 20 years ago) but am tempted to re-read after reading this article in the Guardian yesterday -
www.guardian.co.uk/books/2013/may/03/what-makes-great-gatsby?INTCMP=SRCH
I wonder if I just didn't get it first time round.

[RemusLupinsBiggestGroupie]

Thank you so much for that article. Well, I'm about 40 pages into my third re-read and thus far it is continuing to do precisely nothing for me. :(

[Essexgirlupnorth]

Read it recently as was free to download on my kindle and am looking forward to the film which looks visually stunning.

I was going to suggest the catcher in the rye too as The Great Gatsby reminded me of it. Had to read Catcher in the Rye for GCSE English and hated it. Didn't 'get it' but wasn't a very worldly 15 year old would probably get more out of it if I read it now.

[MarianForrester]

Can't believe you all hate it.

It is so beautifully written. It captures the essence of a lost age; lost love; waste, tragedy, shallowness, and truth. It is spare in the writing, yet so evocative.

I love it.

Hesitate to recommend something else, but will try. "A Lost Lady" by Willa Cather is also beautifully written, and captures the essence of a bygone era. Amazing.


Hesitate to recommend something else,

[KatyMac]

DD & I just saw the Northern Ballet's version; it was amazing dancing but tbh neither DD, her friend, her teacher nor I really understood the story

We talked ourselves in circles; I'd looked it up on Wiki & there was a synopsis in the programme but we were so out of our depth