Just started weaning is it normal for LO to have wind and to gag?

(42 Posts)
sharond101 Sat 10-Nov-12 23:10:35

DS is 25weeks old. He has always been a windy baby and had colic and takes gaviscon for silent reflux. Since starting weaning a week or so ago he has had a few days where he has been pretty windy and I wonder if it's his body getting used to the solid food and if it will just go away in time as it adapts to digesting more than just milk? He refuses baby rice so he has been getting some ready brek in the morning and a little pureed veg at lunch and dinner (carrots, potato or brocolli.)

Yesterday I cut a finger slice of a piece of toast for him. He sat sucking it for a while and then started to splutter and cough. Is this what is refered to as gagging and is this improved by practice or is he just not ready for this yet?

amazingmumof6 Sun 11-Nov-12 01:15:28

broccoli would give him wind! smile

stick to purees, no finger food till 8-10 months!
he's not even learnt to eat/swallow properly, so finger food is massive choking hazard at this stage!

I recommend a brilliant book called "What should I feed my baby?" by Suzannah Olivier, which I've used for my 5 boys, now it's my baby girl's turn....

Davinaaddict Sun 11-Nov-12 01:41:08

At 25 weeks, he's only a week shy of the recommended 6 months for BLW, so actually I don't see an issue with giving him finger food, as long as he's showing all the signs he's ready for it. Both my DC's weaned a week or so early of the 6 months mark, but mainly because the little buggers were stealing it from my plate grin

There is likely to be some gagging along the way, although choking is less likely as their gag reflex is very far forward at this stage. Just make sure that he's sat up properly if giving him finger food, and he'll soon learn not to push things in too far smile

It's definitely more scary for the parent though - mine tend to gag a bit, clear it, then pick up another huge fistful to shovel in grin As long as you're on hand to give a sharp tap on the back if required, I'm sure he'll be fine. No need to wait until 8-10 months for finger food, if you don't want to.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 11-Nov-12 01:48:57

there's no need to wait until 8-10 months for finger food and it sounds to me like he did fine with the toast (you're right, the gagging will stop with practice). however, the fact that he's got reflux might be a bit of a bugger, though, there do seem to be foods to avoid. www.babyledweaning.com/features/999-2/ hve a look at this bit on blw and reflux, it does make things slightly different.

amazingmumof6 Sun 11-Nov-12 02:07:41

davina eating finger foods after only 1 week of weaning - that's not very good advice, sorry, I don't agree with you!

it should be purees-lumpy foods-then chunky/finger foods! how quickly that evolves/changes is down to individual progress, but you shouldn't skip the in- between stages!
haven't you heard of taking baby steps? smile couldn't be more appropriate!

Also, apart from the unwelcome possibility of scaring them and putting them off food (even if temporarily) the stomach/digestion needs to adjust too!
they maybe able to swallow bigger bits at 6 months, but will end up pooing chunks out and won't get the nutrients they need to develop/grow/be healthy.
they could end up being constipated too

I really recommend to take it slowly first and build it up

BLW is crazy and dangerous and isn't recommended by health visitors or gps and it generally doesn't work anyway!

there's the odd case, but why oh why do people feel they need to dismiss reason in exchange for fashion?

PinkPepper Sun 11-Nov-12 02:32:07

Blw - or just starting with finger foods is recommended by HVs. Mine does. The weaning video they show does somewhat.
It reccomends waiting till 6 months and at 6 months babies can have 'finger foods' so no need for puree

PinkPepper Sun 11-Nov-12 02:37:21

http://www.nhs.uk/start4life/pages/babies-food-variety.aspx

amazingmumof6 Sun 11-Nov-12 02:47:27

your hv should be reprimanded if not fired

stupid fashion, no common sense

PinkPepper Sun 11-Nov-12 02:51:00

It's not my HV personally. It's the NHS guidelines. But whatever.

PinkPepper Sun 11-Nov-12 02:52:52

And I didn't call it blw neither did the OP. it's just offering finger foods.

amazingmumof6 Sun 11-Nov-12 03:40:37

pinkpepper

I talked to my hv about it, it's all the rage.
she sees hundreds of babies and although I can't remember how many people she said tried BLW, but she only knew about 10 who tried and were able to do it. She did not recommend it to anyone and very much disagrees with those who do.

All I'm saying is just because a baby (or anyone for that matter) is capable of doing something it doesn't necessarily mean it's good for them!

should in the same way be smoking, drugs, teenage pregnancy, overeating be fashionable? or DUI? or murder? surely one is capable but is it sensible/good/useful/healthy/lawful/moral?

I'm not berating you, I just hate the mentality of fashion-above-common-sense angry

If I was a 6 months old I'd prefer my mummy to be sensible

and BTW my kids have their food likes and dislikes, of course, but none of them had any feeding/eating related problems, ever,
...but what do I know? don't listen to me, I'm only in the middle of weaning my 6th child, I have know knowledge or experience <what's the emoticon for sarcasm?>

I might give baby a curry tomorrow, followed by coffee and ice cream , surely she's capable.....

LadyWidmerpool Sun 11-Nov-12 03:56:27

[b]amazing[b] BLW is perfectly safe if the recommended precautions are followed. Please don't scaremonger. You clearly haven't read Gill Rapley's book which describes how the gag reflex is further forward in babies in order to protect them from choking. The HVs in my area promote BLW as a safe approach to weaning and hold weaning events where they show a BLW video. Just because you have weaned six children in one way doesn't mean other approaches aren't safe.

amazingmumof6 Sun 11-Nov-12 04:26:19

I'm not scaremongering, just saying if it ain't broken don't fix it.

what's wrong with purees?

I tell you what's wrong, it takes time and effort to make them and time and effort to feed it to babies.

what's wrong with Mother led weaning? next there will be people advocating that babies should change their own nappies or bathe themselves or buy their own clothes...

I actually know a lot about gag reflex and Moro reflex and child psychology and child development and a lot of other child related things. I knew about them before I had kids

some people are not prepared to peel, chop, cook, mash, puree, freeze, defrost/rewarm the food, then sit through at least 15 mins of spooning it in. Most are.

BLW in my eyes is just another excuse for lazy parents who can't be bothered to do their job of being a parent properly.

I've started BLW - my DS is also 25 weeks and the gagging was (is) making me very nervous, so I tried spooning in some purée. He gagged. After 6 months of milk, I do think the gag reflex has to desensitise/acclimatise to different textures a bit, and I don't think it's the case that a baby's swallow hasn't developed yet. A liquid takes a great deal more coordination and control of the swallowing muscles than some solids - it's why you sometimes have to ask a nurse if a patient is allowed to have a drink when you visit them in hospital, especially if they've had something like a stroke which can affect the swallow.

That said, it's still giving me the heebie jeebies and I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who has started BLW and decided to change back to the more traditional method.

PS I'm not lazy amazing. I cook all meals from scratch and would do the same for my baby. But I think BLW has some interesting points (encouraging a variety of textures from the start, fostering curiosity and adventurousness in eating, and, developmentally, focussing on biting and chewing before swallowing) and because it is an approach supported by the NHS I thought it was, and still is, well worth a try.

Mine never gagged with finger foods, and point blank refused purees, amazing. She was eating same food as the toddlers and preschoolers at 7mo. I work full time and still have home cooked food everyday. Hardly lazy parent.

At 7mo at nursery I mean. They were very impressed with her self feeding skills.

JimbosJetSet Sun 11-Nov-12 07:06:28

We did BLW when DD turned six months. As recommended by HV, NHS guidelines and after I had done my research. It worked very well and I found the weaning process enjoyable and not stressful, which was a different experience to many of my friends who took the purée route.

Comparing it to smoking and murder is beyond bizarre. And doing the same thing with six kids does not make it the correct way, or indeed the only way, or the mother an expert on weaning hmm

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 11-Nov-12 09:37:53

i've got a feeling your HV knows well enough just to reflect back whatever you've just said, amazing. grin

however, if you feel like having an HV who is up to date in her learning, suggest she googles the latest review of the considerable research into blw, a paper called 'how feasible is blw as an approach to infant feeding?' by the dept of human nutrition in otago uni, nz. it's great, and confirms most of what you just said is... well... nonsense, really.

but of course regarding the 'if it ain't broke' line, you'll be able to provide us with acres of research demonstrating that purees really are the best way to wean children.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 11-Nov-12 09:39:05

oh and i am DEFINITELY lazy. why make two meals when you can make one? start as you mean to go on, i say...

Wrigglebum Sun 11-Nov-12 20:31:34

And why shouldn't a baby have curry amazing? My six month old has had homemade curried sweet potato cakes and homemade chicken curry (chewed on the chicken and ate the sauce and rice from a spoon). He couldn't get enough of either.

I cook all meals from scratch, but blw allows me to make one meal we can all eat. Does that make me more lazy than someone doing traditional weaning who relies on pre-made jars and pouches (not everyone who does traditional weaning prepares it all themselves you know)?

Wrigglebum Sun 11-Nov-12 20:40:16

And re the gagging- a few weeks in and DS2 rarely gags now. Ds1 was weaned the traditional way with purées and as soon as even the tiniest lump was introduced he was gagging for England for weeks and weeks. He refused all but completely smooth food and even now at 3 he is really fussy about texture (and still expects to be spoon fed but that's another story).

Are you American amazing? Your use of DUI seems to suggest it and I know Americans are a bit more conservative on weaning than Brits.

amazingmumof6 Sun 11-Nov-12 23:09:25

not American, watch lots of CSI though!

again my biggest problem is that it seems that people use it for their own convenience (I called it lazy, call it what you will) rather than focusing on what benefits the child.

Elphaba you said it yourself you are not sure and it makes you nervous.

it makes me nervous just hearing about that my friends niece is given chunks of apple at 7 months! apples, carrots and some other "hard" foods are a choking hazard even for toddlers. it's a fact, not my opinion.

softer foods can be mashed and left lumpy and yes an 8-month old can chomp through a piece of cooked broccoli (my son did that) and your 10 month old might get hold of a burger and take the biggest bite and be fine (my other son did that) and that is good, normal and to be encouraged.

BUT the transition from liquid (breast milk or formula) to chunks should be gradual. what's the hurry to skip the in-between steps?

" a liquid takes a great deal of coordination for babies" utter nonsense, but you accept it because it sounds scientific enough

breast milk is a liquid, last time I checked..

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 11-Nov-12 23:32:45

oh i see... so it's all second-hand gossip about a 'friend's niece'? is this really what you're basing such a rabidly 'anti' opinion? no-one's advocating raw apples or hard carrot, they're a choking hazard, whichever way you look at it.

did you consider reading the paper i mentioned? or are you sticking with the friend of a friend method of data collection?

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 11-Nov-12 23:34:36

oh, and re 'the transition from blah to blah should be gradual etc'... any actual research to back that up? other than your own children, because as you know the plural of anecdote is not data.

amazingmumof6 Mon 12-Nov-12 01:16:41

you don't research for common sens and logic

amazingmumof6 Mon 12-Nov-12 01:17:46

but it would be great if I could spell words correctly! grin

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Mon 12-Nov-12 01:28:55

no, what would be great would be if you could back anything of what you say with relevant literature. you're an educated woman, you said that yourself, you know that squacking on about how something is 'crazy' is no way to conduct an argument.

Haha amazingmumof6 you are bonkers! What utter horse shite. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about.

amazingmumof6 Mon 12-Nov-12 02:49:08

pickled you don't know what I'm talking about, that's clear, which doesn't bother me as I don't care what you think

as before, you don't need research when common sense and logic is enough.

but I'm bored with this topic, let's just agree to disagree

enjoy motherhood and be safe

Do you want to read what I actually wrote, amazing? I did not say that swallowing a liquid requires a great deal of coordination 'in babies'. It requires a great deal of coordination in anyone. And if it sounds scientific, it's because I'm a specialist therapist who works with a population with a high rate of swallowing problems (neurologically impaired patients) who need things like fast-flowing liquids thickened in order to manage them. Yes, breast milk is a liquid, and my point is that if a baby can cope with swallowing that, their swallowing mechanisms are very well developed - certainly developed enough to cope with soft-cooked (not necessarily puréed) foods from 6 months.

BTW, giving babies pap, rusks in milk and weaning at 12 weeks also used to be considered 'common sense' until RESEARCH proved otherwise.

Thanks for that article Aitch - great read and reassuring. (Are you the BLW website Aitch?)

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Mon 12-Nov-12 04:05:06

guilty as charged. grin

Hyperballad Mon 12-Nov-12 04:37:33

Amazing, your laziness point has just annoyed me somewhat! My baby is 4 months old and I haven't decided which route I'm taking with weaning yet. But neither route is more lazy than the other for me, both will be cooked from scratch as are all my meals now.

I hate to see babies spoon fed out of jars, that's lazy, but many people feed their babies just on jars when weaning and yet they could be deemed to be doing it 'your' way.

Your either lazy or not lazy, and whether you purée or blw is not a measure of this.

Grrrrrrr!!

MarkStretch Mon 12-Nov-12 04:51:06

Comparing BLW to murder, brilliant.

And if you think anyone who does blw is lazy, you've obviously never had to clean up after a blw'd baby has enjoyed the tates, textures, smells etc off their lovingly homecooked meal. It takes forever, but it's worth it.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Mon 12-Nov-12 08:15:41

<fond memories of hosing down a broccoli-covered highchair>

aimingtobeaperfectionist Mon 12-Nov-12 08:33:25

Wow.
I didn't realise that home cooking from scratch then spending a good hour or so sitting at the table as a family talking about what we're eating, enjoying food texture taste and smell was lazy. Never mind clearing up after.
Yes, I can see how mushing up some food or opening a jar and spoon feeding is so much more time consuming.
How rude to say what I choose to do with my baby is wrong.
The decision of how to feed my child was not just a spur of the moment thing. I actually read up on both blw and purée foods (there I go again being lazy- sitting down to read) and decided on what I think is best for my child. If someone else decides to do differently, fine. I would never be so rude and obnoxious as to tell them they're wrong and endangering their baby.
You do realise babies choke more on purée foods than properly prepared solids?
That's actually been proven. Scientifically. Not just by what 'someone thinks'.
Yes, 'BLW' as a term has become fashionable. The actual practice of feeding baby what the family eats and letting them feed themselves has been going on for centuries.

FWIW, amazing, my mum didn't feed me purees. Nor my many aunts from what I gather when I visited them in Hong Kong earlier this year. They went from rice porridge to very chopped up food. (Spoon fed, not finger food). So it's hardly universal that all babies traditionaly went from liquid to mushy purees to lumpy purees. I have more than 6 maternal cousins, so there are you go, more anecdotes than you being a mum of 6.

By the way, they commented on how I shouldn't be giving DD, who was 18mo at the time, big lumps of food. And instead I should be cutting them up finely with a pair of scissors. (I noticed lots of parents in restaurants cutting food furiously with scissors). It seems giving unwanted advise is definitely universal!

Amazingmum
BLW is crazy and dangerous

Feel free to offer advice from your own experiences, but don't state something is dangerous, isn't recommended by hv (it is), and just an excuse for lazy parenting. How absolutely judgemental of you.

Op, for what its worth I did blw, had actually quite liked the idea of cooking/pureeing (see, not lazy), but having read the research (again not lazy) I decided the blw approach was for us. It isn't for everyone and I know a few ppl who tried it and then switched to purees. You have to find what works for you and your dc. It worked well for us, no choking issues, rarely gagged and has always eaten a good range of food. So from my experience I would recommend it. But would I suggest if you chose to wean with purees etc you are wrong? No, because I am not that rude!

Yup, I'm lazy grin Seriously, why would I spend hours steaming, boiling, pureeing, mashing, freezing, reheating, etc etc, if I didn't have to? confused Most babies I know are/have been weaned on solely finger foods and have got on very well, so it clearly does work. There are also a small minority who have been weaned on purees and are also fine, so I'm not about to say that their parents were wrong to feed them that way either. BLW was just the preferred method for us, i really wouldn't have done it any other way smile

After all, the human race has managed to survive this long, and for most of that time they didn't have blenders.

Or even forks, come to think of it. smile

elphaba that's why my mum and her sisters/cousins didn't feed us purees. Chinese kitchens do not have blenders. They aren't lazy and would cut the food up very finely with their cleavers. They best description would be sizes you find in egg fried rice. Nowadays new mums would buy a rip off gadget like this
m.johnlewis.com/mt/www.johnlewis.com/Shopping/Product.aspx?Type=SKU&Id=231051167&s%25pccid=pc%25gs%25%25&

Because still Chinese cooking doesn't need a blender. Ofc the lazy mums would open a jar or a pouch.

Anyway what I'm saying is we are still surviving as a species despite blenders being a recent invention. And many other cultures even in very recent history have no fed purees because they have no blenders.

And my family aren't from an impoverished Chinese village, amazing. Just in case you are imaging us huddled over a clay pot over a fire, not being able to afford a blender. Me and my cousins are from 70s and 80s in HK. And we have modern gadgets like microwaves, rice cookers and those instant one-press hot water quick cup machines.

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