Weaning guidelines seem conflicting !

(82 Posts)
AlphaAndEcho Tue 26-Feb-13 16:44:18

Ds is 4mo and lately his first stage formula is not satisfying him . I've read the weaning guidelines say that the hungry baby / second stage formulas are not recommended . Weaning before 6mo is not recommended . I dont know what else to do . He is taking about 800mls a day and any more than that he just brings it back up it's obviously too much milk for his stomach to take , but he's still hungry .

Any advice appreciated Tia

shouldIbecrossaboutthis Mon 04-Mar-13 19:28:38

My son is currently weaning at 21 weeks old. We started at 20 weeks. I decided to wean my son on his external readiness signs on the advice of The Department of Health, who say, "if an infant is showing signs of being ready to start solid foods before six months, for example, sitting up, taking an interest in what the rest of the family is eating, picking up, and tasting finger foods then they should be encouraged."

I decided to wean my son, not because he seemed hungry but because he was constantly trying (and sometimes was successful) to get my food and placing it in his mouth. I spoon feed him a little porridge in the late afternoon so he is used to a spoon but otherwise he helps himself to chunks of soft fruit and veg whenever I am eating. When I spoon feed him he clears the spoon with his top lip. He has no tongue thrust. He tries to hold the spoon himself.

If he was trying to crawl or walk or talk I would encourage him. I understand why the advice is 6 months due to gut closure but it's not a fast rule as people on this thread seem to suggest. Each child is different and each gut matures differently somewhere between 4 and 8 months. We can't see the gut and this is why the advice is 6 months, as by the vast majority of guts are closed. Some are closed earlier.

You need to educate yourself on the mechanics and bodily processes involved in weaning and take your cues from your child and then base your decision on that with the help of the guidelines. Ultimately milk is more filling if a baby is hungry.

TheNewStatesman Mon 04-Mar-13 02:24:31

"Apparently only avocado has more calories than either formula or breast milk so not sure food will help."

No, this is not true. Breastmilk/formula is roughly in the middle in terms of calories per 100g.

I'm not saying the OP should necessarily start food at this stage, but that particular statement is not true.

Andcake Fri 01-Mar-13 15:47:54

At 4 mo ds was on about a litre of a mix of formulae and expressed bm. But in lots of littler feeds. Sometimes i would have to take him somewhere quiet to feed as he was so distracted. Typically he only ever seems to down a full bottle at 4 am!
Apparently only avocado has more calories than either formula or breast milk so not sure food will help. The 6 mo rule s apparently to do with gut health which has nothing to do with size.

nickelbabe Fri 01-Mar-13 12:55:10

and all of your posts have basically told me that he's not hungry. If he were hungry, he'd want his milk more often.
babies don't know anything other than milk.

when DD is poorly or hungry, she'll go for milk first every single time, even though she's now 14 months and knows that solid food fills her up too.
it's instinct.

nickelbabe Fri 01-Mar-13 12:53:58

don't worry about liquid "sloshing" around in his belly, it doesn't work like that.

babies are designed to drink liquid. their bodies aren't ready yet to process more solid food (even thicker milk)
they really, really don't need it.

It doesn't sound like he's hungry at all to me. If he us sleeping through the night? He would be waking at night if he was hungry.

It sounds like he might be uncomfortable with so much milk at one time. Maybe from wind, maybe reflux? Babies with reflux often suck a lot. Maybe that 'something more' he wants is just to suck, have you tried a dummy?

MajaBiene Thu 28-Feb-13 20:05:15

If he's having a bottle, doesn't want more for 4 hours, and sleeps for 12 hours a night though it really doesn't sound like he is hungry or needs anything else.

A hungry baby asks for more milk, wakes in the night, wants more frequent bottles.

JumpHerWho Thu 28-Feb-13 20:01:04

Note that if you're using powdered formula, adding 8 scoops to 8oz of water does give you about 9oz total of made up formula. My DS has been having this size since about four months with no probs - wouldn't finish every bottle but that's the size I'd make and sometimes he'd finish it, sometimes not, but it was quite clearly up to him how much he took iyswim, and he had 7 a day.

AlphaAndEcho Thu 28-Feb-13 19:58:12

No even if I only gave 6 or 7 oz bottles he would still go the same time between feeds . I promise I've tried that because I know 9oz in the one go is a lot for a baby but I had to increase the amount because he will only take 4 feeds in a day . He is in a great routine that he got into himself . But when I hear all the milk sloshing about in his tummy i want to give him something ticker . That would be like us drinking litre upon litre of water in one go !

the new sma easy to feed bottles come in a 250ml size - they are phasing out the cartons that were 200ml

forevergreek Thu 28-Feb-13 19:17:44

That's strange. The aptimal and all others Iv used are 200ml

Yes her won't take 9oz then 9oz 3 hrs later. But less more frequently he will.

ds never had bigger gaps on hungry milk - he took the same amount at the same intervals but was more settled in between. It would do no harm to try a different milk and they can always switch back if there is no difference.

MajaBiene Thu 28-Feb-13 19:06:40

Hungry milk isn't going to make him take fewer oz though, which seems to be the problem - that 9oz bottles are too much volume. If he won't take smaller more frequent amounts then big bottles of hungry milk will just cause bigger gaps between bottles.

hungry milk is mainly casein based whereas first milk is mainly whey based - the casein protein is harder to digest and 'may' make a baby feel fuller for longer. In the olden days all milks were probably like hungry baby milk until they refined the formulation more to try and make it more like breastmilk and ended up with both first milk and hungry milk. It is not going to hurt to try hungry milk and it may or may not make a difference. It is not a follow on milk as they are not recommended before 6 months.

AlphaAndEcho Thu 28-Feb-13 18:51:55

He still wouldn't take the bottle any earlier that's why u had to keep putting his oz up because he kept going longer without feeds .

MajaBiene Thu 28-Feb-13 18:03:21

Hungry baby is just an older formulation of first milk that has a different protein in it which is harder to digest, so it sits in the baby's stomach longer.

Have you tried offering smaller bottles, or will is it just that he won't take another bottle 3 hours after a 9oz bottle? What would happen if you just gave him 6oz at 8am?

AlphaAndEcho Thu 28-Feb-13 17:44:09

As I have said I really can't get him to go any closer together . He obviously isn't starving or he would be screaming the house down ! grin

I just feel when he is having his bottles he's looking for something more . It's a lot of liquid to be sloshing about in his belly I feel he needs something thicker .

I don't know whether to try hungry baby milk and see how he is on it . But I've heard that hungry baby milk is actually really a repackaging of follow on milk .

And to pp who mentioned ready made , the ready made sma comes in 250ml and 1l bottles .

MajaBiene Thu 28-Feb-13 17:03:41

To be honest though, hungry babies do not sleep 12 hours a night. If a baby isn't getting enough milk in the day the first thing they do is wake more often at night!

forevergreek Thu 28-Feb-13 16:27:49

I would decrease the amount in each bottle and feed every 3 hrs instead

(as a maternity nanny)- I have never made a bottle with more than 8oz in my career. So seems lots to me! The ready made cartons are 200ml so thats usually the max at a time for any age

I would do 6/7oz every 3 hrs. It will allow him to keep more in as he won't be throwing it back up, and won't be so hungry at the beginning of a feed so less likely to speed drink. So 8am, 11, 2, 5, 8pm . If 7oz that's 35oz a day, and he is currently on 36oz. So roughly the same but more spread out.

MamaSteph Thu 28-Feb-13 16:20:32

I'm not advising to wean yet, if you read my posts I have advised about trying a feed every 3 hours and then maybe the hungrier milk. But I have said for her to go with her instincts.
I cannot speak for AlphaAndEchco but I can't say you have all reassured her. At the milk questions, people specifically said how her DS wasn't getting enough milk throughout the day and probably worrierd her. Granted she realised she made a mistake and baba was drinking more but some people haven't advised but criticised.
Everything is probably and maybes. Your baby may just be teething, or may be bored. They are probably having a sleep regression or probably having a growth spurt. Life is all about ifs, buts maybes. Each baby is an individual and her baba might need food and that bit of baby rice for example, inbetween bottles might give him what he's looking for. Again in my sentence, might be!

nickelbabe Thu 28-Feb-13 15:59:18

those paediatricians are going against guidelines then - they're actually not supposed to do that (weaning before 6 months is only ever recommended if there are specific medical reasons for it, not because the baby is crying a bit)

nickelbabe Thu 28-Feb-13 15:57:57

i know what the OP has told us and I know whatt he guidelines are.

He is rejecting some of the milk because he's had enough.

Please don't advise the OP to start weaning when it's against guidelines.
We're here to reassure her, not to encourage her to do something else than advised.

Yes, iron is less after 6 months, but it's not necessary to introduce other food yet.
the baby will not become iron-deficient at 6 months. It doesn't work like that.
and a lot of veg contains iron.

MamaSteph Thu 28-Feb-13 14:56:55

Nickelbabe how can u say he's getting enough at this stage. Are u telepathic. You don't know this baby, he hasn't told you he's getting enough. So my opinion isn't any less valid than yours. Many peadtritions still recommend weaning from 17 weeks so if your going off medical Info there is conflicting advice from one health person to another!
I am offering my opinion to this lady, that is all.
And babies either FF or BF still start to become iron deficient at 6 months as their bodies are growing, developing more and requiring more vitamins and minerals. If you had already started to wean your baby at say 5 months then at 6 months, iron rich foods such as meat can be introduced. But starting weaning a baby at 6 months on fruit, veg etc and prolonging giving them meat is going to delay their iron intake further.

nickelbabe Thu 28-Feb-13 14:09:19

MamaSteph - the baby is having exactly what he needs at this stage.
If it' the same as yours, then it's fine.

It is not the amount or type of food that is causing the crying it is something else.
probably a developmental growth spurt.

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