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People who question the current vaccine schedule

(23 Posts)
Crumbledwalnuts Mon 02-Sep-13 08:35:59

I would love to hear your ideas about changes you would like. I'd like to see

more choice (more single vaccines, less pressure from health providers); more openness to delayed or differently timed vaccines;
much more research into the potential vulnerabilities - so that children who could react badly are screened;
more transparent statistics;
official acknowledgement of the role played by other factors in reducing disease;
a greater readiness to acknowledge possible damage;
less fear among medical professionals so that they are more likely to investigate vaccine damage reports instead of automatically denying them;
a return of the onus for safety and compensation to the manufacturers; more significant and appropriate sums of vaccine damage compensation.

These are just some. I have this fantasy of us moving to the sunlit uplands of choice and respect.

Thanks, if you respond. Many thanks indeed.

Forgetfulmog Mon 02-Sep-13 08:46:02

Consider the NHS is so strapped for cash there aren't enough MWs to go round & BFeeding support is extremely limited & waiting times are long & A&E staff are overworked etc etc, I'm not entirely sure your hopes are likely to be fulfilled....

Crumbledwalnuts Mon 02-Sep-13 09:00:34

Aha but respect - and taking more seriously reports of vaccine damage - they're free. My concern is that children are damaged and that damage is being ignored. At the moment the excuse is "for the greater good". But if that turns into "because it's cheaper" then the justification is even weaker.

TheFallenNinja Mon 02-Sep-13 09:48:33

Hasn't this been done to death, revived many times and done to death again and again and again?

Crumbledwalnuts Mon 02-Sep-13 10:12:19

No, not like this.

CatherinaJTV Mon 02-Sep-13 10:41:28

I wish the NHS would offer the chicken pox vaccine and the FluMist for all kids up to 17, rather than just the wee ones at the moment.

cerealandtoast Mon 02-Sep-13 10:52:11

I would like there to be a proper attempt at informed consent before vaccinations are given, not the routine 'sign here please, while I just give baby the jab' (or worse, as happened to me, refusal to hand over the information leaflet until I had signed)

Along with this, there could be at least a cursory attempt at gathering family medical history, so that at least that is a slightly fuller picture should anything untoward occur.

Of course, once there is a slightly better medical history picture, there could also be a little more attention paid to reports of anything untoward happening, instead of the 'once in a million, out of the blue' platitudes hat are currently given.

once all that is in place, then it would be a little easier to move towards individual (or at least, more individualised) schedules, since there would be a more complete overview to work from, and perhaps some good indications that 'one size fits all' might not be the best angle for everyone.

TwasBrillig Mon 02-Sep-13 10:58:26

I too wish they offered chicken pox vaccine like Australia.

CatherinaJTV Mon 02-Sep-13 11:14:53

oh and as a disclaimer - my kids did not get their baby shots in the UK, so I don't know how well or badly we would have been informed.

TheFallenNinja Mon 02-Sep-13 11:48:54

Ah, we'll, as long as it's different then.

more choice (more single vaccines, less pressure from health providers); more openness to delayed or differently timed vaccines;

Would definitely love to see this. If you want to do it differently, you have to pay. Not everyone can afford this.

We are hoping that the new Meningitis C vaccine will be offered privately so that we can get that one done.

official acknowledgement of the role played by other factors in reducing disease;

Would also love to see this. We were lucky, I could afford a consultation with an expert, and the creation of a bespoke vaccine schedule based on health, date of birth (winter/summer babies have different risk exposures), breastfed/not breastfed, maternal immunity, etc.

a greater readiness to acknowledge possible damage;

We did have a (harmless but scary) vaccine reaction and the paediatrician at the local out of hours NHS clinic did not even know the vaccine, never mind the possible reactions to it. I found it extremely worrying that a paediatrician was so badly informed.

But unfortunately, GP surgeries and nurses are too stretched to attain the level of knowledge needed, or find the time needed, to give each individual child the same level of service, so it is down to the parents to inform themselves and seek out experts. This costs money and time, which not all parents have. So I can't see much changing.

Mutley77 Mon 02-Sep-13 13:20:40

I think people should be more prepared to go privately if they have significant issues with what is available free and accept that a free service for so many people can't be individually tailored.

I am living in Australia and there is very much a two tier scheme here. I am happy with the public system as I trust that it is generally in the best interests of me and my children. However, should I not wish to take up what is free, it is much easier to find the private options. I wouldn't hesitate to do so if I felt it necessary.

I do think it is our responsibility as parents. How can the government fund an individually tailored service?

cerealandtoast Mon 02-Sep-13 13:42:11

I think any public health service has a duty to not treat every patient exactly the same.

A few simple questions, before my eldest child was vaccinated, would have raised enough issues for me to query whether the standard schedule was the right way to go for us.

I blithely trusted what the doctors said - why wouldn't I? It didn't work out very well for us.

Following on from that, I blithely trusted that the same public health service would see us right - after all, vaccine damage is 'one in a million', and our health service one of the best in the world - of course we would get seen by the people we needed to see, get the help we needed (speech therapy, occupational therapy, physical issues discussed, equipment loaned/hired/even mentioned would have been a start).

Education too - that's a right, isn't it? Well, not always, it would appear (the basic premise is, yes, but that doesn't actually amount to education a lot of the time).

But no. Everything that we have got for our child, we have got through our own research, and our own funds. Even trying to find a suitable school placement was a nightmare - the lists we were sent of 'appropriate' schools were incomplete (oddly enough, the ones missing were the more expensive ones hmm), and we were lied to time and again about how to apply for places, and what procedures to follow. We were lied to about a lot more than that, but that is for another thread.

I don't blithely trust health professionals anymore - the above is jut the tip of the iceberg wrt what we have been through. And I have learned the very hardest way to question, research, and try to find my own way through what is, quite frankly, a minefield.

One size does not fit all, and it should not be pushed as though it does. And, if the health service is going to push forward with a one size fits all approach, then it should damn well ensure it mops up when things go wrong.

FannyFifer Mon 02-Sep-13 14:21:28

I've pretty much done my own thing with vaccines.

Delayed MMR with both children, other vaccines spaced out, no way were my children getting three injections at the same time.

My 8 year old has just had his second MMR injection & 3 year old just had her first one.

Crumbledwalnuts Mon 02-Sep-13 14:30:58

CerealandToast: I agree with most of what you say - particularly the first thing you mentioned, about consent. That really needs to be tightened up.

As for the cost: it is cheaper for a doctor to listen to a family history than to deal with a vaccine reaction. It costs nothing to delay the schedule.

WorldGoneCrazy - your experience is interesting and a bit depressing really. You hear these stories over and over again. It's poor stuff.

"One size does not fit all, and it should not be pushed as though it does."
Exactly : there is a pretence that it does at the moment, and there should be honesty that it doesn't.

TheTruffleHunter Mon 02-Sep-13 15:26:38

Choice and respect would do it for me.

tabitha8 Mon 02-Sep-13 20:11:24

From talking to one or two friends, they tell me that, when vaccines are given, possible side effects are not talked about. If that is the case, I'd like to see that change.
They tell me that they have never been given a vaccine information insert. (They also tell me that they have never asked for one).

tabitha8 Mon 02-Sep-13 20:12:21

Oh, and I completely agree that one size can't possibly fit all.

Beachcomber Mon 02-Sep-13 21:22:52

Oh, and I completely agree that one size can't possibly fit all.

Ain't That The Truth.

But a truth, of basic medical science, which is ignored (if not positively mocked) when it comes to vaccines.

Every drug (and vaccines are drugs) that I have ever taken, or have given to my children, came with some sort of personal caveat - at the very least a weight to dose ratio.

But not vaccines.

Premature baby, underweight baby, failure to thrive baby, reflux baby, baby with eczema, baby too young to know if they have immune system issues, allergy issues, mitochondrial issues - with vaccines, no matter. Line 'em up and jab 'em.

Okkaaay. Sounds, like, riily scientific to me. NOT.

Crumbledwalnuts Mon 02-Sep-13 21:50:51

It is quite extraordinary, and goes with the ducking and diving associated with "doing it for the herd". No, you need to do it for yourself. But you fear you might be vulnerable to reaction? Ok, do it for the vulnerable people in the herd. Yes you might become one of them. But just do it, do it, do it.

LaVolcan Mon 02-Sep-13 22:18:44

And if they are really bothered about congenital rubella syndrome - a public health campaign aimed at young women to tell them to check their immunity status before they get pregnant. Then have a single rubella vaccine available for those who need it.

Not waiting until they are already pregnant before testing.

Crumbledwalnuts Mon 02-Sep-13 22:20:47

Yes, absolutely. I forgot that. And proper advice about waning immunity. Advice to parents to have their immunity checked while the child is being vaccinated.

I think we would do a super job.

tabitha8 Tue 03-Sep-13 18:44:01

Before I got pg there were several opportunities for those in the medical profession to advise me to have my immunity to Rubella checked. No one did so. This was in the days (only about 5 years ago) when I thought vaccines worked for all and lasted forever.
Luckily, I was immune.

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