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Delayed vaccination schedule - maximum age for and time period between single jabs

(16 Posts)
Samie10 Wed 20-Feb-13 09:49:18

She is fine now! Her skin is amazing, we have been so careful with her. The reaction after the jabs was rapid, within hours she was covered head to toe, it was just heartbreaking to see. We treated it with a steroid cream as the dermatologist we took her to see said nothing else would clear it up. Since it has cleared up, we have not had any further problems so it could have only been the jabs which caused it to happen. Bizzare.....I will look into the Infarix-hib as suggested. You are lucky you are able to understand the biomedical side, for us mere mortals its confusing!
I am far more confident and far less trusting with the Drs than I was 6 months ago, i have learnt to question, question and research far more than I would have done if treatment would have just affected myself. What is frightening is what they profess to know and you know from your own research that they are wrong and they are the trained medical people.......scary stuff.
You have been great!!!

CatherinaJTV Wed 20-Feb-13 09:33:09

Samie - I am so sorry you are stuck without local support - I know it took me years and years to have the knowledge and confidence to walk into a doctor's office and say "this is what I want" and on the way, I have used private practises, too. There is nothing wrong with that.

So here is one idea: there is an Infanrix plus hib vaccine that is used in other countries (www.medsafe.govt.nz/consumers/cmi/i/Infanrix-hib.pdf) - if your doctor could get that for you, you'd take care of hib and pertussis with one shot and the 4 in 1 combination should not be any more "strenuous" on the immune system than the 3 in 1.

How is your daughter's skin at the moment? Is that well managed for moisture, basic care and "flame ups" of the eczema?

Samie10 Wed 20-Feb-13 09:25:08

Thank you, I appreciate you taking the time to respond and the advice. As you rightly say systems can be rigid, which is the problem I am facing here. Drs are willing to work on an alternative schedule but do not offer anything in terms of helpful advice, at least not the medical people I have encountered. Its a case of follow the guidelines or suggest your own schedule but no meeting or constructive discussion in the middle.The schedule I posted was advised by the controversial Dr Halverson who I have to say I found very helpful. At no point did he say do not vaccinate, in fact he encouraged us to do so, my problem is the number of jabs month on month. I feel so lost. I suppose the only way forward is to try the DTap and go from there. Thank you again!!

CatherinaJTV Wed 20-Feb-13 08:20:26

Well, I really have to say: do not trust me - I could be a pimply 13 year old with no knowledge at all wink

I studied biology and still work in the field, which means I can read biomedical literature well. Almost 12 years ago, I was stuck at home with my 6 months old who had chicken pox. I had actually just returned to work and was going a bit stir crazy confined at home, so I followed one of my online baby group members to the discussion board she led on ivillage, which was a "vaccine discussion" board. At the time, I didn't even know that there was a vaccine discussion - vaccination had never been a contentious issue in my family. My grandmother had lost most of her eyesight to measles, her brother in law was deaf due to congenital rubella, my uncle had had tuberculosis after the war, one of my teachers had suffered from polio and still wore the leg brace, I myself had coughed my lungs out and lost 8 kilos with pertussis one summer - vaccination was a no brainer. My main problem with vaccines up to that point had been having my daughter in one European country, moving her to the US in the middle of her baby shots (she was 9 months old), catching up with the US schedule while there, and then getting into the European schedule when we moved back to another European country before she entered school. In the mean time, we have moved to the UK, so we have lived in 4 countries/two continents/using 4 different health care systems and following 4 different (albeit similar) vaccination schedules. In addition to that, I have friends with children in Scandinavian countries, so that has given me some insight into their schedule.

So then I started reading on the debate and spent a lot of time on vaccine debate boards. I learned a lot from the literature (original biomedical literature, vaccine schedules, The Vaccine Book by Bob Sears, etc), but also from mothers whose children had real adverse events (ranging from harmless fevers to encephalitis) from vaccines and mothers whose children had complications from vaccine preventable diseases (ranging from high fevers to stroke).

Overall, this has given me a lot of perspective about why which vaccine is recommended when and how often in which country.

So I would claim some knowledge, but I would never ever expect anyone to follow my advice. I am not a medical doctor, I do not know your child, who has her own history and immune issues. I can just provide some general guidance through the jungle (things like how to space the DTaP) and give some pointers which way you could go with your pediatrician (and I realise that sometimes that is difficult, because doctors/systems can be rigid and access to health services completely different when abroad). I cannot give you a proper "second opinion".

Samie10 Wed 20-Feb-13 05:41:22

How do you know so much about vaccines? Ive researched and read and read some more...i dont know what to believe and what not to and my confidence in drs is at an all time low......its great to get impartial advice from someone who is not a dr but id like to know your background!
She is my first baby and is not in daycare, however, she does go to the odd baby class.

Thank you!!!x

CatherinaJTV Tue 19-Feb-13 20:50:24

Neither vaccine research nor pharma and Turkey is as far East as I have come. I would recommend that you continue before the age of one, at least with hib and DTaP. Is your daughter in daycare? Does she have older siblings? Those are the two big risk factors for invasive pneumococcal disease. It is known that giving PCV together with DTaP containing vaccines gives the kids more fever, so maybe you'd be fine just going ahead with Infanrix hexa on its own and see how she does?

Samie10 Tue 19-Feb-13 16:03:40

Thank you! Do you research vaccinations or work for a pharma company? Have you been in the Middle East? That's where I am.
How much time do we have? Do we have to go ahead before 1 year? I am willing to try the DtaP again because last time she had that plus the prev 13, it could have been either,that caused the reaction, it could have been both. I just don't like the thought of one jab per month, it's seems a lot, similar to multiples in one go. I'm scared to do them, I'm scared not to......

CatherinaJTV Mon 18-Feb-13 20:39:09

Hi Samie,

I am a scientist, but I have moved around so much that I have vaccinated my kids on 4 countries/two continents, so I had to look into schedules/vaccine brands and doses all the time. My son got the Infanrix hexa in Germany (luckily without any problems). I am so sorry to hear about the eczema, that is so dire on the little ones. I wonder whether you'd want to stay away from the Infanrix brand then in the first instance and try the hib now, see how she does with that and then go ahead with the DTaP? Those are really the two that are most important in year 1. I wish I could take a peak into the future for you to see how she'll do, but I can tell you (anecdote alert) from 10 years on vaccine boards that I have only seen/heard of one child who had constant/prohibitive eczema reactions to his vaccines, so hopefully the eczema onset after the infanrix was a one off. Feel free to bounce your thoughts off me here, but make sure to double check any info with your local doctor.

Hugs!

Samie10 Mon 18-Feb-13 15:28:02

Hi, thanks for the replies!
I'm not in the uk but almost all are available where I am.
CatherinaJTV what's your background? Are you a dr? I'd love to get a second opinion but where I am there is not much help!!! She had severe eczema which developed within hours of the infrarix hexa and was upset and sleep disturbed for about a week. I couldn't pick her up due to the eczema, it was horrible.
I'm so confused........

pixi2 Mon 18-Feb-13 11:26:29

Hi. Just popping in to say weigh up all the pros and cons. My mother didn't vaccinate me as she has am auto immune problem. I caught meningitis and almost died.

My dc had their baby jabs in time with mild reactions so I delayed the MMR till 19 and 18 months respectively. Ds had no reaction. Dd had a mild reaction in terms of a swollen leg with a hard lump which was hot to touch. This went away after about 3 days and is a normal ish reaction.

CatherinaJTV Mon 18-Feb-13 11:17:04

How bad was your baby's reaction? That schedule looks horrendous. If you absolutely insist on singles and one shot per visit (I don't know what your baby had, not judging here, just thinking aloud), then you could do:

6 months DTaP Infanrix
7 months Hib Hiberix
8 months PCV Prevenar 13
10 months IPV Imovax
12 months Hib Hiberix
13 months Men ACWY Menveo
14 months DTaP Infarix
15 months PCV Prevenar 13
any time in year 2 IPV Imovax
4 years DTaP booster
5 years IPV booster

The spacing (> 6 months between second and third DTaP and IPVs) ensures much better long term protection). I would totally advise against measles and rubella singles. Do go for the MMR rather than for dodgy imports. It is unlikely that the single mumps will ever by made again. See how your daughter does with the schedule above and go for the MMR some time before her second birthday with a booster before school entry.

Do you have a good GP? All the best!

Samie10 Mon 18-Feb-13 09:21:38

Many thanks for the comments. I was recommended the following, however, she is already 6 months and I think its a lot to have a jab every month, could i put longer in between them?
4 months DTaP Infarix
5 months Hib Hiberix
6 months PCV Prevenar 13
7 months DTaP Infarix
8 months IPV Imovax
10 months IPV Imovax
12 months Men ACWY Menveo
13 months Hib Hiberix
14 months PCV Prevenar 13
15 months measles Rouvax
4 years DTaP booster
5 years IPV booster
12 years single rubella
15 years final dT booster
16 years final IPV booster

CatherinaJTV Mon 18-Feb-13 08:19:29

and regarding Dr Sears - he is an American private doctor who pulled a vaccine schedule out of his a* based on nothing but the maximisation of office visits (he gets paid a lot of money for each visit). There is no rhyme or reason behind "his schedule" apart from that. It was one of his patients who started the San Diego measles outbreak, too, so he'd be the last person I would suggest turning to for advice UNLESS you live in Southern California and you can visit him for vaccine visits and he can assure you that your daughter will be covered against the diseases you want her covered against.

CatherinaJTV Mon 18-Feb-13 08:15:53

Samie,

you should find a doctor who works with you and who will honestly and competently advise on which vaccines are available in the UK and will likely be available in the UK for the time it'll take to get your daughter covered. For example, there is no single pertussis vaccine, so if you wanted her to have pertussis protection (which you hopefully do), then she'll need the DTaP combination vaccine. Some vaccines are still licensed but are no longer sold, which means if you go by paper/internet search, you might find yourself stuck at some point. People can make up all sorts of things on the internet, but if you are stuck with a half vaccinated child, they are (usually) not the ones to hunt around for the vaccines that she is lacking.

Good luck!

Lostonthemoors Mon 18-Feb-13 07:42:51

Look at dr sears alternative vaccine schedule.

Samie10 Mon 18-Feb-13 07:38:42

I know that this has been debated to death but I had a bit of a sleepless night last night and began thinking of all kinds of topics, one of which, which is frequently on my mind: vaccinations....My baby is 6 months and apart from the 8 weeks jabs, I have decided not to proceed with any more at the moment due to the reaction she experienced, additionally we have many auto-immune conditions in the family. If we decided to go the single vaccination route on selected vaccines, whats the longest period of time we can leave the vaccines for? Also, between each single vaccination how long should you leave each dosage?

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