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Would it be really bad for me to not let my son have his second set of MMR?

(44 Posts)
DuelingFanjo Thu 09-Aug-12 11:03:28

He had a really bad reaction to the MMR/12 months vaccinations (They do them at the same time here) and it has made me really reluctant to put him through it again.

MousyMouse Sat 11-Aug-12 22:28:05
bruffin Sat 11-Aug-12 22:13:39

There is evidence that some reactions are over reported by lawyers to make evidence for law suits
There is also evidence that some developmental epilepsy diseases have been reported as vaccine damage.
There are studies that show this but am on phone and can't link.

ElaineBenes Sat 11-Aug-12 21:30:53

Other than very rare cases which ARE picked up and known eg vaccine induced paralytic polio from the opv

ElaineBenes Sat 11-Aug-12 21:29:06

No, but you'd see an association between vaccine exposure and outcome x. You don't.

bumbleymummy Sat 11-Aug-12 21:12:41

It may not be attributed to the vaccine though.

ElaineBenes Sat 11-Aug-12 21:11:23

And there are other ways of getting at the data if you're talking about something like developmental delays. What's your hypothesis? What's your outcome of interest? I could then answer with more specifics.

ElaineBenes Sat 11-Aug-12 21:09:41

It can't be very serious damage then if it's not recorded anywhere. Certainly death or severe disability would be reported.

bumbleymummy Sat 11-Aug-12 20:56:48

How, if the reaction/damage isn't recorded?

Btw, I have asked a few questions about Al on the other thread (and started a new one) that you may be able to answer.

ElaineBenes Sat 11-Aug-12 20:54:32

You would see an association between exposure to vaccine and x outcome (the damage that the vaccine is hypothesized to cause)

bumbleymummy Sat 11-Aug-12 20:50:57

How would they show up vaccine damage that isn't reported?

ElaineBenes Sat 11-Aug-12 20:49:10

Not quite as that is only one source of data. You can look at ecological data, retrospective reports, association between exposure and outcome - none of which shows evidence of more than very small amounts of vaccine damage.

bumbleymummy Sat 11-Aug-12 20:41:08

Well, that's difficult to say given the under reporting of vaccine reactions but hey ho!

ElaineBenes Sat 11-Aug-12 20:34:16

Ummm. I'd prefer to say that the scientific evidence says that the risk to your child from a vaccine is tiny and far far far less than the risk from the disease.

We could equally say you don't know if your child will be the unfortunate one who dies from measles. Rare but far less rare than vaccine damage (according to the best scientific evidence).

Haven't read all this thread - but DD had a bad reaction to MMR first time round - had rash - temp & poorly. Actually ended up in hospital (but she has other complex health issues that contributed to this)
BUT was fine second time round aside from have a seziure in the waiting room afterwards (again this isn't uncommon for her)

Bloody glad she did as school had a measles outbreak this year, alot of very poorly children who hadn't been vacinated.

bumbleymummy Sat 11-Aug-12 20:25:34

Better. We could also add 'but there is currently no way of determining whether or not your child will react badly to their first or subsequent vaccinations' if we wanted to be really thorough. smile

ElaineBenes Sat 11-Aug-12 20:22:17

OK bubmley let's rephrase it to the scientific evidence shows that vaccine damage is tiny to get past the 'but look at what people say on an anonymous internet forum'

bumbleymummy Sat 11-Aug-12 19:48:27

Yes, EB, I did say 'unborn child' in my PP but I said pregnant women in my last so apologies if that was confusing for anyone.

As you know, there are parents on MN who have vaccine damaged children that were not immunocompromised when they were vaccinated so it's not really accurate to say "Apart from a tiny number of children eg those who are immunosuppressed, vaccines are very safe."

Also, in the case of the rubella vaccine it's not given because it is 'safer than the illness' for the child.

NL, the 'greater good' argument doesn't sit well with me. I think everyone should have their own individual child's best interest at heart and I don't think there is anything wrong with being concerned after a bad reaction. Dueling has been offered some good advice wrt testing for immunity etc and I'm sure she will make the decision that she feels is best. She doesn't need to be guilted into worrying about pregnant women in the community who could have protected themselves against rubella.

Pregnant women live in the community. They are have partners, children and parents, all of whom are affected. That's what I mean. It's staggeringly selfish and shortsighted to think that because you are making the decision to vaccinate a child who happens to be a boy, you can do so assuming that they will not be affected.

The Op's child had what sounds like a normal reaction to vaccination. He did not have an allergic response which imo would be the only reasonable cause to defer vaccinating.

ElaineBenes Sat 11-Aug-12 19:36:55

Rubella is not a risk to pregnant women, it's a risk to their unborn children

Yes, every illness has the potential of complications. Some, like measles, are riskier than others. THis is why we vaccinate against them - we dont like to see children dying or being left brain damaged or even blind or deaf.

Apart from a tiny number of children eg those who are immunosuppressed, vaccines are very safe. Much safer than the illness. THis is why we vaccinate.

bumbleymummy Sat 11-Aug-12 19:33:01

Surely every illness has the potential to end life or cause serious permanent effects?

Vaccines are not safe for all children and DF's son reacted badly to the first one so I think it makes sense for her to consider her options and weigh up whether the risk of a second vaccine is worth taking.

Not sure what you mean by 'ruebella affects everybody in the community' (sic) As said before, rubella is mainly a risk to pregnant women in their first/second trimester.

BeaWheesht Sat 11-Aug-12 19:29:32

His reaction sounds like a normal reaction to me. Was it more than that?

Its much less likely to react the 2nd time and less likely again if he reacted the first time because his immune system will kick in and fight it off if he has immunity and if he doesn't, well, isn't it better he has the vaccine than the disease?

Its up to you, you could delay a while / get immunity checked. Also, I can't remember if they get any other vaccine at the same time as the mMR but remember you can ask to separate them. I did.

Also, both mine had a bad reaction to the 12 month jags.

By horrible I mean a disease that has the potential to end life or cause serious permanent ill effects. It's incredibly rare to lose a child to measles in this conutry. Still not a risk I would want to run when there is a safe vaccine available.
Ruebella affects everybody in the community. It is now rare for women to be vulnerable to it but it can happen. It could happen when the OP's son is grown up and having his own children, it could happen in their family or it could happen to people that they will never know. Again it's a risk she does not need to run.

bumbleymummy Sat 11-Aug-12 19:18:19

I suppose it depends on what you mean by horrible. Being ill with anything is unpleasant but not everyone has serious cases of measles, hence why I said can be.

Mumps is asymptomatic in over 1/3 of cases so for those people it couldn't really be called 'horrible' - they don't even know they have it!

Yes, rubella can be horrible for your unborn child if you contract it during pregnancy (the risk is greatest in the first 16 weeks) but I'm not sure how relevant that is to DF's young son confused.

Yes, measles can be a killer. "The overwhelming majority (more than 95%) of measles deaths occur in countries with low per capita incomes and weak health infrastructures." (WHO)

No Measles IS a horrible disease. As is Mumps. As is Ruebella if you contract it whilst pregnant. The severity to which individuals are affected varies but the disease is a killer and kills thousands of children across the globe every year.

OP - what you describe sounds like the normal vaccination response but do talk to your GP before you make any decisions.

bumbleymummy Sat 11-Aug-12 18:22:18

Measles can be a horrible disease.

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