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Lame excuses for not vaccinating

(133 Posts)
JoTheHo Fri 27-Jul-12 08:03:59

Imagine you go to the quack, because of a slight dizzy feeling? 'I'm afraid medicine can't help you, but you've got it for the rest of your days. Be careful because this will mean you are more likely than average to have a car accident'. 'How much more likely?' you ask. I have no idea he replies. Would you stop driving your DC about?

Imagine your friend works for the govt stats office. She tells you that car manufacturers and govt have been conspiring to under-report car accidents. 'Cor' you say, 'how much are they fiddling the numbers'. 'That's just the problem no-one knows because it's all hush hush'. Would you stop driving your DC about?

I'm guessing most people would carry on driving. In which case, why do people use the exact same reasons for not vaccinating?

The anti-vaxer reasons that uncle Bert gets hay fever, hay fever is hereditary and something to do with immune system, vaccine damage is also something to do with the immune system, DC are related to uncle Bert, and are thus more likely than average to suffer vaccine damage. They thus don't vaccinate them.

The anti-vaxer believes that the evil quartet of doctors, scientists, govt and pharma conspire to under-report vaccine damage. All part of their thirst to play god, and make lots of money by making people ill, not forgetting generous measures of incompetence and stupidity. They reason that vaccine damage is under-reported so they don't vaccinate their children.

I have never seen any attempt to quantify whether either 'the more susceptible than average' or the conspiracy theory could plausibly be sufficient to justify not vaccinating. It's incredible lame. Many anti-vaxer start from a position of prejudice against vaccination. They then compile a long list of selective quotes, mis-quotes, anecdotes, quasi-scientific speculations, and conspiracy theories. They say this list is evidence, and that their prejudice has become a rational analysis. It isn?t. It?s an uncritical list of unquantified elements which are superficially consistent with their position.

ChopstheDuck Fri 27-Jul-12 16:01:02

Definition of anti
preposition
opposed to; against:

what other class of non-vaccinators would you suggest exist? Other than those poor paranoid souls fleeing the evil quartet?

SilkySmith Fri 27-Jul-12 16:02:31

argh thought this said "lame excuses for not VACCUMING" and I was all ready with my list! bah! as you were..

ChopstheDuck Fri 27-Jul-12 16:04:06

lol, now there's a better thread!

Mine -
Cos I decided to hoover up the whole masala tin of spices that I dropped and so now every time I hoover, the house reeks like an Indian takeaway! grin

SilkySmith Fri 27-Jul-12 16:07:25

my top one:

if you leave it till the carpet changes colour with the dust it becomes SOOO much more statisfying to see the hoover tracks where you've already done (like when everyone used to use shake n vac)

it messes up the hoover!

Pagwatch Fri 27-Jul-12 16:09:06

No one needs an excuse not to vacuum.

<<dogmatic and unreasonable>>

Pagwatch Fri 27-Jul-12 16:10:04

I keep the hoovering the basement and have the whole bad back thing at my disposal.

ExitPursuedByABronzeBear Fri 27-Jul-12 16:10:17

I really need to vacuum - but, just like nature, I abhor it.

JoTheHo Fri 27-Jul-12 16:13:02

'It's a bloody agonising choice between leaving your child susceptible to disease or risking the possibility that they will end up disabled like their sibling.'

I agree 100%. I can't see what this has to do with anything I've said.

In case it got lost above. I have every sympathy with non-vaccinators who choose not to vaccinate having critically weighed up the pros and cons. I have a large problem with people who compile ad hoc lists of the down-sides to vaccinating without assessing the credibility or the importance of the items in their list.

Pagwatch Fri 27-Jul-12 16:13:55

<<snort>>

That's fab Exit.
I am going to use that somehow.

ChopstheDuck Fri 27-Jul-12 16:14:51

I need to hoover right now, brought half of frensham pond home with us yesterday. Sand vs Spices though?!

SilkySmith Fri 27-Jul-12 16:17:55

"I really need to vacuum - but, just like nature, I abhor it"

eugh! nature MINGS!

JoTheHo Fri 27-Jul-12 16:20:06

In the case of a newly introduced vaccine, an anti-vaxer would be someone who automatically starts compiling reasons not to have it.

SilkySmith Fri 27-Jul-12 16:22:26

"I have a large problem with people who compile ad hoc lists of the down-sides to vaccinating without assessing the credibility or the importance of the items in their list."

yeah but, as a vaccinator I agree in a way but also think it is so important that all individuals have a choice so have to support all non vaccinators from that point of view, because otherwise, where's the cut off? where's the line between good enough reason and not? I do understand herd immunity, but still wouldn't ever want it to be enforced on anyone.

<I would also fight for my right to choose not to vaccum grin>

SilkySmith Fri 27-Jul-12 16:24:33

Well the fact that it's new can be a reason to not want to use it
(same for hoovers, don't want pretty new kit getting filled with dirt!)
I think that one is pretty understandable, its reasonable on a personal level and unreasonable in terms of wider society (someone has to go first)

saggarmakersbottomknocker Fri 27-Jul-12 16:28:42

I have a large problem with people who compile ad hoc lists of the down-sides to vaccinating without assessing the credibility or the importance of the items in their list

Do you know a lot of these people OP? I'm not overly concerned with other people's vaccination choices TBH.

peanutMD Fri 27-Jul-12 16:30:46

Jo I commented on the first page I'd this thread too and just want to state as someone who has always took my son to be vaccinated I did refuse to take him to be vaccinated against swine flu as I didn't believe that they had researched it enough to ensure that it was safe.

does this make me thick too?

ExitPursuedByABronzeBear Fri 27-Jul-12 16:30:49

My Dyson was beautiful the first day I got it. It has never been the same since.

MaryHansack Fri 27-Jul-12 16:34:19

In the case of a newly introduced vaccine, an anti-vaxer would be someone who automatically starts compiling reasons not to have it. or in other words, questions it?

MaryHansack Fri 27-Jul-12 16:35:02

ps I recommend the Miele hoover over the Henry

JoTheHo Fri 27-Jul-12 16:36:58

'I'm not overly concerned with other people's vaccination choices' - as is your prerogative. There are probably things which interest you which I'm ambivalent about.

Pagwatch Fri 27-Jul-12 16:49:39

JoTheHo

Then perhaps it would have been better to start again with your OP because it really does read as if you are objecting to everyone who decides not to vaccinate and that they only do so for the reasons you ridicule.

Saying 'some' rather than 'the' does clarify this somewhat subsequently. But the tone of your op is overwhelmingly contemptuous and negative. People will respond to your tone. It's human nature.
Saying 'oh but I didn't mean non vaccinators, I meant anti- vaccinators' is fine too. But why not articulate that you see the distinction in the OP rather than being arsy that people assume you are talking about everyone who doesn't vaccinate?

Maybe be quite clear next time rather than spending so much energy choosing unlikely scenarios designed to equate people declining vaccination as deeply stupid?

And yes, saggers may be interested in other things, lime why people don't breastfeed or why they watch soaps. But she hasn't started a thread saying 'lame excuses for not breastfeeding' or 'crap reasons for watching crap telly'.
Whereas you did.

maples Fri 27-Jul-12 16:57:00

Jo your post is both very unkind and silly.

Do you follow every piece of medical advice you've ever been given?

Don't you think patients and their parents have the right to choose?

I have a family history of auto immune illnesses and am not anti vax at all but will be staggering DS's jabs so he has them more spread out - eg no mmr but measles in 6 months then mmr at 3 just before he goes to preschool.

BeingFluffy Fri 27-Jul-12 16:58:32

JoTheHo, I am somebody whose immune system was very likely damaged by the Rubella vaccine I had when I was 16, leading to Adult Onset Stills Disease. As auto immune diseases run strongly in my family (mother and sibling) I felt I could not risk my daughters' health and decided not to give them the MMR, they have had the other childhood vaccines. This decision was supported by the GP I had at the time whose own children did not have the MMR. Most people I have discussed vaccination with, who chose not to vaccinate have good reasons. They are not as stupid or ignorant or misinformed as you believe.

RebeccaAdlingtonMumsnet (MNHQ) Fri 27-Jul-12 17:06:37

Hi there,

Just to clarify, as we have had a few reports about this thread, we don't remove threads because they are offensive to some or in poor taste, we always ask others to post with their point of view and debate the issues raised.

We will remove any other posts that personally attack, are libellous or racist or otherwise break our Talk guidelines

I would be interested in some people responding about why they don't vaccinate.
I have a dd with ASD and have just been diagnosed with MS. Someone mentioned to me that there might be a link with hep b vaccine ( which I had as a nurse).

I have obviously looked at the autism links and research and in my world am happy that there is no link.

Is this what people are referring to? Or other vaccines?

Why would you not vaccinate your older children against rubella etc?

I am genuinely interested.

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