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Vaccinations and nursery schools

(564 Posts)
Louise1010 Fri 13-Jul-12 00:04:37

This is my first post so forgive me if I do anything wrong!

I am just beginning to look at nursery schools for my 15 month old son, and I am a bit surprised that they don't seem to care whether or not he has been vaccinated. I expected it to be a requirement.

It seems incredible to me that I have to provide evidence of my cat's jabs to the cattery but when it comes to children anything goes.

Has anyone come across a nursery school in the UK that does require it?

bumbleymummy Sun 19-Aug-12 22:53:10

You mean me PJ?

I'm replying to people on this thread . If you don't want to post here then don't.

PigletJohn Sun 19-Aug-12 21:00:08
bumbleymummy Sun 19-Aug-12 17:08:53

Piglet, it has also been discussed here. I was answering people's posts on this thread too becuase not everyone moved over to the other thread.

PigletJohn Sun 19-Aug-12 16:54:01

this is the thread about nursery schools.

"Aluminium in Vaccines" is over here

It's the one that starts "I thought this might do better with its own thread because the other one went off on a bit of a tangent."

bumbleymummy Sun 19-Aug-12 16:30:35

Had we PJ? Where did we do that?

PigletJohn Sun 19-Aug-12 15:30:31

oops, this is the thread about nursery schools.

"Aluminium in Vaccines" is over here

PigletJohn Sun 19-Aug-12 15:27:12

I thought we established that the level of aluminium in the body was measured regardless of its source?

bumbleymummy Sun 19-Aug-12 15:02:46

Just back...

Jo, if you read the ADSTR report you will see that it gives the MRL for oral Aluminium. That seems to be what people are basing the current 'it is safe' on. Thankfully, according to a conference report linked to on the other thread, people are still investigating the effects of Al being injected. I will look forward to those results.

PigletJohn Wed 15-Aug-12 16:06:23

can anyone prove that it doesn't?

bruffin Wed 15-Aug-12 15:54:06

Nothing PJ, but eating a turnip exactly 3 hours after having a vaccine may cause some sort of reaction.

PigletJohn Wed 15-Aug-12 15:45:48

What's wrong with my turnip analogy?

bruffin Wed 15-Aug-12 15:36:22

Lol
It will be the metal from the injection needle,
Its a pity MN HQ cant do a sticky or a page with links to all the research. It doesn't need to give advice just link to pages like the WHO one i gave on the thread about spreading out vaccines. It has a list of credible websites.

PigletJohn Wed 15-Aug-12 15:34:24

next time might be back to autism, or possibly change to vaccines causing infection.

If the question keeps changing, so must the answers.

seeker Wed 15-Aug-12 14:55:39

Do you think that some of us should archive
All these links for next time? Or will it not be aluminium then?

bruffin Wed 15-Aug-12 11:07:33
bruffin Wed 15-Aug-12 10:43:17

and another thought

The recommendations are based on how much aluminium consumed on a weekly basis (tolerable weekly intake),

bruffin Wed 15-Aug-12 09:42:27

Sorry Jothehot
As i said totally confused about what has been linked to before or notconfused

bruffin Wed 15-Aug-12 09:39:53

Honestly can't remember what has been linked and what hasnt

"The US Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) estimated these levels for infants taking into account the amount of aluminum a child would eat as well as receive by injection of vaccines. The body burden of aluminum from both sources is below the minimal risk level except transiently following vaccinations; since 50-70% of injected aluminum is excreted within 24 hours, this is believed to have no negative effect"
from this

which uses this study
"The calculated body burden of aluminum from vaccinations exceeds that from dietary sources, however, it is below the minimal risk level equivalent curve after the brief period following injection"

seeker Wed 15-Aug-12 07:48:29

No response? Does that mean everyone agrees with Jo?

JoTheHot Tue 14-Aug-12 07:25:49

bumble you're wrong about the ADSTR. From the link I gave earlier

'The US Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR) estimated these levels for infants taking into account the amount of aluminum a child would eat as well as receive by injection of vaccines.'

But this isn't really the problem. If a new building is put up at your childrens' school, do you refuse to let them in it until you've re-run the structural engineer's calculations? The sums have been done by the people who are trained to do them. You are not trained to do them.

mathanxiety Mon 13-Aug-12 23:49:30

'We conclude that episodic exposures to vaccines that contain aluminum adjuvant continue to be extremely low risk to infants and that the benefits of using vaccines containing aluminum adjuvant outweigh any theoretical concerns.'

PigletJohn Mon 13-Aug-12 22:56:06

I gather that "bioavailabilty of 0.1%" means that for every 100g in the diet, 0.1g is absorbed by the body. Is that right?

bumbleymummy Mon 13-Aug-12 22:18:00

Math, that was discussed on the other thread. The ATSDR report (linked to earlier) gives the MRL for oral Aluminium. We do not take vaccines orally.

I know there are different types of adjuvants - they have been mentioned in a few different links. I believe the New Zealand rabbit study was one of them.

There was a conference report linked to on the other thread which said the following in relation to the ADSTR report mentioned above:

"There seems to be abundant data concerning risk levels for ingested aluminum, but scant data about risk levels for injected aluminum. The oral mini- mum risk level, for example, appears to be in the range of 2–60 mg/kg of aluminum per day but there are no comparable data for injected aluminum"

It also identified the following as one of the areas that needs to be more studied:

"Toxicology and pharmacokinetics of aluminum ad- juvants. Specifically, the processing of aluminum by infants and children."

and recommends further research.

seeker Mon 13-Aug-12 22:07:31

Aluminium is the new mercury!

mathanxiety Mon 13-Aug-12 22:03:06

Seeker, there are multiple sources of aluminium besides vaccines. Drinking water is a major source of it as aluminium is used in the filtering process. Aluminium is the third most ubiquitous element, after oxygen and silicone. We are exposed to it every day. Whether children are vaccinated or not they will have an accumulation of aluminium in their bodies.

Paper on PubMed on the pharmacokinetics of Aluminium adjuvants whose abstract suggests 'that the body burden of aluminum from vaccines and diet throughout an infant's first year of life is significantly less than the corresponding safe body burden of aluminum modeled using the regulatory MRL. We conclude that episodic exposures to vaccines that contain aluminum adjuvant continue to be extremely low risk to infants and that the benefits of using vaccines containing aluminum adjuvant outweigh any theoretical concerns.'

BM, there are different types of aluminium adjuvants in different vaccines and not all are metabolised in the same way. Not all will remain in the tissues for the same amount of time. I think you are hanging too much significance on the difference between IM and GI tract exposure to aluminium.

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