Mumsnet Talk

Hello,
We are looking to expose our children to measles, mumps and rubella. Does anyone have a child with any of these infections so we can expose them to it, along the line of the old style measles parties.

I appreciate this is an emotive subject. Vaccination is not compulsory and every parent makes their own choice. I respect the choices all parents have made but do not wish to debate on those choices.

Many thanks in advance.

no (since they both had 2x MMR)

I wish your children all the best, may they escape infection until they are old enough to make sensible decisions for themselves (not wanting to debate, just expressing my good wishes for your little ones).

No, but I'd be interested in perhaps joining a network and finding out more about it/speaking to people who've done it.

I hope you enjoy raising deaf children if you are intentionally exposing them to measles: www.youtube.com/v/O8NJLaAenOE

Why not just get a vaccine that is proven to be much less dangerous? Or are you buying into the lies that are told by anti-vax nutters that are stiing public health back by 70 years? factsnotfantasy.com/vaccines.php

Marie, sorry about the unbalanced and patronising replies you've received. There are many sensible people on MN who don't go along with the government propaganda about mass vaccination programmes and would prefer to think for themselves - but obviously some people feel the need to justify their own choices by calling us 'nutters' which probably says more about them. Obviously it's not a clear cut issue at all though.

Just watched that video. Dies anyone want to explain why she had to be vaccinated anyway after having measles? It doesn't make sense to me.

In that video, the mother chose not to vaccinate her child but it's also clear that she assumed her child would not contract measles as it's so rare. She presumably had little information about what to do if her child did contract the disease. She does not seem to have made the choice to not vaccinate with her eyes open.

And bubbley - I'd also be interested to know why her and the whole family had to be vaccinated. Comes over as a bit sinister!

illuminasam

How would not vaccinating with eyes open have changed anything for the mother and child in that video? Measles did to her what measles do to a certain proportion of kids. Knowledge doesn't change that.

bubbley - doesn't make sense to me either. We may be getting an abridged version of what happened w/re to vaccination recommendations?

So you want to deliberately expose your children to a disease (I'm referring specifically to measles here) that could lead to serious illness for them? Measles can lead to brain damage, encephalitis and deafness. If your child passed rubella onto a pregnant lady she could miscarry. If they pass mumps onto a teenage boy he could end up infertile.

Whether or not you vaccinate your children is your lookout but why would you deliberately expose them to illness?

Catherina - It might do. She seemed surprised her child caught it. Perhaps she hadn't researched ways of lessening complications. Did she give her child extra vitamin A for example? Did she know to? How about keeping her in a darkened room? Unfortunately we don't know the answers to these questions from the video.

*Not getting into providing studies that show Vitamin A is implicated in lessening the complications from measles.*

illuminasam

seems Marie is not getting her non debate ;) I have read many an outbreak analysis of very conscious vaccine refusers (mostly of the Steiner kind), who supposedly did everything "right" (according to their paradigm) and yet, their kids show the same rate of complications, including encephalitis and deaths as their involuntary peers (i.e. kids that got measles without parental intent). I genuinely wonder (beyond the patronising snark, which, admittedly, I do have problems keeping in check) where non-vaccinating parents get the confidence from that they will do everything "right" and their child will not suffer. And I honestly have a problem with the implicit notion that if a child suffered from measles, the parents must have done something "wrong". Measles, for all I know, are inherently neurotropic (like mumps and canine distemper and all the family), and, it being a viral disease with no known virustatic acting on it, there is no treatment for virally induced encephalitis. And, since wild measles (unlike their vaccine cousin) suppress the immune system for weeks, opportunistic infections are also hard to keep away (although admittedly relatively "easily" treated with antibiotics in the 10% or so of kids who get otitis and/or pneumonia). Could you explain? Thank you.

I think it is chicken pox parties you were thinking of, people don't even do those any more because it can be serious to some children.

A relative of mine was severely disabled following measles and no one in my family remembers any point where measles was comparable with say chicken pox or hand foot and mouth. Measles was treated with the same seriousness as scarlet fever.

I nearly died as a children from Rubella, and caught Scarlet fever straight afterwards. A friends son nearly died from Chicken Pox. DH's mother died from Chicken Pox. We were all vaccinated against measles (but a cousin nearly died as he was too young to be vaccinated, he was on life support for 2 weeks).

So my kids are vaccinated (and I came very close to getting them done for Chicken pox whilst on a US holiday).

When I was little measles was considered a mild disease. I had a story book where the lead child gets illl and when it is diagnosed as measles everyone is "oh phew, it's only measles"
I had it as did all my family (8 of us) and cousins (30 plus) with no complications.

I suspect that my experience is as irrelevant as all those who know someone who did have a bad reaction - not very.

Dd has not had the vaccine but I would not wilfully expose her to the virus.

But this will get lairy and people will be fucking rude for no good reason other than that they like to. So I shall bugger off.

Mummytime - can't you go private in the UK for the varicella? We did for a dTaP/IPV booster when the school offered the dT/IPV at us, because I really wanted the pertussis protection. DD had varicella vax in Germany before it was generally introduced (and it held beautifully while her little brother got chicken pox twice, sigh).

Probably, but it can be very cheap in the US. All three caught it naturally and were fine, so its irrelevant now.
But we are the kind of family who catch things.

Catherina - I'm not sure that non-vaccinating parents do all have the confidence that they will do the right thing. I think it's a choice they make and hopefully they try to be as informed as possible about the implications of that choice. The same goes for those that choose to vaccinate.

I don't think I implied that the parents had done something wrong - I said that the video didn't provide all the information about the situation.

I don't know why your studies show the same rates of complications and death and I'm not going to rise to asking you for your sources. I have work to do for one thing. I have confidence in alternative/complementary preventative and palliative treatments for illness purely because I have used them for a number of reasons and they have worked. Unfortunately I have been a victim of conventional medical approaches to my detriment more than once.

I'm sure you are highly knowledgeable about the virus and it's actions and the allopathic treatments available and that is the route you have chosen. I'm not trying to change your mind.

When I had measles as a child, I was prescribed antibiotics by the doctor. I was rushed to hospital for an allergic reaction to penicillin, not due to the measles itself.

That's the end of the discussion for me too.

Hello illuminasam,
Since posting this request I have come across the following resource http://www.arnica.org.uk/ I have not yet looked into it but with hope it will be useful.

Many thanks

Marie - that's brilliant, thank you very much.

Arnica also have a Yahoo group that's worth looking into and there are local Arnica groups dotted around the UK.

Thanks illuminasam for your perspective. Not trying to change your mind either, just interested.

Being old enough to remember the pre-vaccination erea - AFAIK they didn't used to have 'measles parties'. It was German measles parties - because the illness is slight but the teratagenic potential is so horrific.

Without starting a great debate, can you clear this up for me? Why do you want your children to be immune to measles? I know that if you are going to get rubella and mumps the consequences for an older child or adult are worse, but why measles? Why put your children through the misery of the disease, discounting the risks, when a vaccine exists? I dont know the figures but surely the risks of the vaccine are less than the risks associated with the actual disease?

Speaking personally, I think measles would be horrible to get as an adult and likely to be much worse so I'd prefer my child to get immunity as a child. I haven't yet made the decision whether to vaccinate against it or not (although I am leaning towards not).

While I'm sure the disease is miserable, it's my opinion that a child would then be immune for life and their immune system would be in good stead to respond to other infections having previously responded to natural measles. It's my opinion that the long term effect would be to strengthen the immune response for life. I'm not convinced that vaccinations provide that, unless one keeps injecting, which means one is reliant on conventional medicine and I don't have 100% confidence in that approach so would not like to be reliant on it.

It's taking responsibility for it rather than handing that over to doctors and scientists if that makes sense.

If my DS was a DD, it would be definitely not as I would like her to have a natural immunity that she can pass on to her babies. As my DS is a DS I am somewhat walking the corridor of uncertainty at the moment.