Bbc article about unqualified teachers

[rollonthesummer]

The tories are defending it by saying there were more unqualified teachers under labour anyway...?!

A Tory spokesperson says...

"There are some brilliant teachers who have not got qualified teacher status - nuns, great linguists, computer scientists, engineers and other specialists that inspire their pupils.

Nuns?!

I don't know of any unqualified people in schools near me that sound like that list. The ones I know are very young-no time to have been a nun, great linguist or successful in business- and have not yet passed NQT for various 'unknown' reasons.

[rollonthesummer]

Some cynics might refer to them as cheap fodder...

[golemmings]

TAs who cover PPA time? In DHs school there are 2 talented TAs who cover PPA time - one linguist and the other used to work in IT. They split the class and teach french and programming- both things the class teacher, who is excellent in all other respects, struggles with.

[southeastastra]

lots of nun teachers near me in the catholic school one i am sure never ages

[TheFallenMadonna]

I've worked with some great unqualified teachers. Some overseas trained, some ex nurses and yes, one engineer. Taught maths. Was ace.

[ChablisTyrant]

I think there are some excellent unqualified teachers, but don't see why they can't be required to get QTS within 4 years. Not exactly difficult to do, either via portfolio or whatever if they have a teaching qualification elsewhere or just by doing School Direct.

[meditrina]

There has never been a time when all teachers in state schools had QTS.

And there can be very good teachers (perhaps in the classroom before 1997) or Antipodeans before 2012(ish, when their qualifications became automatically recognised for the first time), or who are ex-FE moving to secondary etc.

Just as there can be crap teachers who do hold the approved qualification.

Actually, on basis that teachers' performance is on an ordinary bell curve distribution, has anyone mapped where non-QTS teachers sit on that curve?

[TheFallenMadonna]

They are still performance managed like the rest of us. I don't see why some of them don't get QTS - they'd earn more if they did - but I' not sure it would necessarily mean they were better teachers...

[rollonthesummer]

Do other professions have this? Unqualified nurses? Dentists?

[UnsolvedMystery]

I don't care how good they are at their subject area, if they aren't trained to teach, they shouldn't be teaching.

[balletgirlmum]

My dh is one of them.

He didn't complete his PGCE due to illness & being offered a job.

He's a musician & is trained to teach, just in his own specialist area, his knowledge of pedagogy is second to none.

[Kampeki]

Forgive me for commenting on this thread as a parent, and not a teacher, but I am appalled at the increase in unqualified teachers in our schools.

I have no doubt that some unqualified individuals may be very good at what they do, but there will be many more who aren't, and I don't want to take the risk. Allowing unqualified teachers in state schools denigrates the teaching profession as a whole, and perpetuates the silly notion that anybody can teach. In the long term, I have no doubt that it will reduce standards across the board, and our children's education will suffer.

But hey, we'll probably save a few quid along the way, so maybe it doesn't matter

[ArcangelaTarabotti]

My DC are in a top performing independent school and some of their teachers are unqualified. They are fantastic teachers, parens and DC are happy and no-one remotely cares if they do or don't have a PGCE/ QTS. I recently completed a PGCE at a rubbish university - what I have learned abut teaching I learned from being a supply teacher - the PGCE stuff was a complete waste of time and money.

[Kampeki]

If you want to pay for unqualified teachers, arc, be my guest. However, I don't want them to be imposed on the rest of us in the state sector.

[rollonthesummer]

My DC are in a top performing independent school and some of their teachers are unqualified. They are fantastic

Forgive me for being sceptical that some state school heads will use them as cheap labour.

[Fayrazzled]

I'm not convinced a PGCE or equivalent makes a qualified teacher. There are some dreadful teachers who have the relevant piece of paper, but good teachers it does not necessarily make.

I went to a private school and was taught by some excellent teachers whom would be deemed unqualifed now. However, in the private sector, the difference is that poor teachers will be out on their ear (qualified or not). Unfortunately, the same is not true in the state system.

[Fayrazzled]

Sorry, I didn't mean 'qualified' in the firs sentence. Technically, it does of course mean they are qualified- it doesn't mean they are necessarily that good though (it just states they reached the minimum standard that year on the course).

[rollonthesummer]

However, in the private sector, the difference is that poor teachers will be out on their ear (qualified or not). Unfortunately, the same is not true in the state system.



Can I ask what makes you say this? Do you have much recent experience of dealing with poorly performing teachers in a state school?

[ArcangelaTarabotti]

If poor performing teachers can be also out on their ears in state schools as well as independents - presume no problem in hiring unqualified teachers as they can be got rid off if they do not perform.

[rollonthesummer]

Why bother to have a qualification at all then?!

[TheFallenMadonna]

Unqualified teachers are subject to performance management. I think having been officially trained to teach is of less importance than being able to teach. Underperforming teachers, qualified or unqualified, can be (and in my experience are) dealt with quickly. It is simply incorrect to say that it is a difficult, lengthy process. It can be short and brutal.

[ShipwreckedAndComatose]

Yes, I agree. The idea that poor teachers are difficult to get rid of just isn't part of my experience at all.

Qualifications are important because teaching involves skills that need to be developed through a training programme. Although, I agree, I have worked with some great unqualified teachers.

The problem as I see it is that we have entered a period of poor recruitment and hiring anyone is going to be tricky

[outtolunchagain]

Think part of the problem is that the training is very poor, you see a lot of trainee teachers or NQTs really struggling but there doesn't seem to be much help for them .

[rollonthesummer]

Then the training needs to be reformed, not that we need more unqualified teachers.

I think it's a very dangerous road to go down saying qualifications are unnecessary. Where do we stop? No PGCE? Is a degree even necessary? A levels? GCSEs?

It wasn't long ago the government were talking about making teaching a masters-only profession!

Would we start to day that nurses don't need training?! What makes teaching so different?

[ArcangelaTarabotti]

'Qualified' can be a bit of a red herring though.
I am a qualified teacher, but very regularly teach subjects and age groups I am not qualified in - eg primary. Also secondary physics and maths, because there is a massive shortage. If only people qualified to teach physics were allowed to teach physics, it would not be offered in many state schools.
In my DC school they are taught physics (and other subjects) only by people specialists in that field - many of them have PhDs but not PGCEs.
As a supply teacher, I teach in state schools - any subject - and sometime the same class more than once a day for different subjects (and the DC are sometimes bemused 'Miss - do you teach everything?' ) whereas in independents I go to (although they use supply teachers far less) will only use supply teachers who are specialist in that subject.

[Chchchchanging]

My experience in profession makes me hugely more qualified than the teachers who taught me in subject BUT doesn't give me the classroom skills- I think it's fine to not be qualified at point of starting but ahould be on a course/ program which is completed during that year to ensure standards are maintained.
As an extreme example is be happy for an ex dr to be teaching my kids biology, Olympian pe etc but I expect it's less 'glam' than that!!