How much progress is normal!

(12 Posts)
Feenie Sat 20-Apr-13 18:24:04

I know - like some kind of ridiculous doublethink, isn't it? confused

EvilTwins Sat 20-Apr-13 16:06:48

Feenie- I didn't realise that. I'm secondary and have to put 7s as 7s and 8s as 8s at the end of KS3, in the same way that As are As and Cs are Cs at the end of KS4. New guidelines from OFSTED about Music (which falls under my dept) is very damning about using "invented sub-levels" and includes the use of them as assessment tools in the "inadequate" criteria.

ipadquietly Sun 14-Apr-13 22:16:24

Good luck stroppy - to you and dd! grin

Stroppygirl Sun 14-Apr-13 21:00:32

Thanks again for all the feedback :-)
My dd sometimes reads the schools lime books and brown ks2 books or she free reads from home and library. The teacher is happy with either.
I will ask her teacher nicely about her progress and see what she says.
I hope i haven't taken up to much of your time on your day off. I really appreciate all the advice you have given.
Many thanks :-)

ipadquietly Sun 14-Apr-13 20:15:52

I'm very surprised about predicted end of year levels not being level 3 on the basis of what you've said. Lime books, for a start, are usually seen as level 3 equivalent, so this makes the progress in reading look very strange. Is she still reading lime, or is she a 'free reader'?

Writing is a strange one. A level 3 piece of writing will 'flow' more than a level 2 piece. This is mainly due to more advanced sentence structure and use of appropriate connectives rather than 'and' and 'then' all the time. Time connectives like 'just then' and 'at that moment' are useful to create the 'flow'. Use of vocabulary will be appropriate - not too many adjectives stuck together smile and more specific words being used when necessary. Full stops and capital letters should be near perfect. As I said before, we have had groups of girls who were using good language in writing in year 1, and were clearly working at a 2c on entry to Y2 but didn't quite reach the level of maturity needed to be a level 3 writer a the end of the year. (When we say 'level 3 writing', we are talking about children writing like 9 year olds after all!)

Children who lack confidence in maths can sometimes convince themselves they 'don't understand', and it's like hitting a brick wall! It might be worth having a quiet word with the teacher (or even dd) about what she's finding difficult. Perhaps looking at it from a different perspective at home may help.

So, yes, I would be worried about lack of progress in reading. If she was reading lime with understanding in Y1, I would expect her to be about 3b at the end of Y2.
As with writing and maths. I would be a bit hmm but not so worried. I would certainly (nicely!) ask what the teacher feels has led to the lack of progress (because there certainly has been a lack of progress) and what you can do to help. You could mention that you understand from talking to other people, that children are normally expected to make 3 sublevels' progress in Y2 and say you're a bit worried that dd hasn't managed to do so.

At the end of the day, though, she's still doing very well! grin

Stroppygirl Sun 14-Apr-13 19:11:09

Thanks for all your feedback ipadquietly.

Reading, dd has been on ort lime since yr1 spring term. Yr2 teacher is trying to get new books for her and has said she's never had such a good reader! Her comprehension and expression are excellent, both teachers have said this.
Maths she hasn't struggled but does lack confidence, teacher said she would help with this but didn't remember discussing it with us. At the moment she knows all of her times tables to 11.

Writing, teacher says she would be a level 3 but sometimes forgets full stops and doesn't know how to get her to remember and can we do at home. She uses ,?! in her writing most of the time and very rarely forgets full stops. She writes lovely stories with lots of wow words and is starting to use paragraphs. Dd never has to learn her spellings as they are always to easy for her, teacher agreed and said that it's difficult to challenge her!

Yr1 teacher assessed as end of yr maths 1a/2c writing 2b reading 2b/2a
Yr2 teacher assessed at start of the yr maths 2c writing 2c reading 2b.
I haven't asked about the progress yet as dd was with me at parents eve when we were given the levels. Does this seem ok to you?
Many thanks for reading again :-)

ipadquietly Sun 14-Apr-13 16:57:14

TBH stroppy, I would expect a child I'd assessed as level 2 at the start of the year to be level 3 by the end.
However, it is easy to overassess when you first have a child in your class, when you aren't absolutely clear about what they are capable of.

Regarding the reading - is dd finding the comprehension difficult - that can be a problem as children need to understand what they're reading much more as they move through L2?
Regarding the maths - did she take a while to fully understand place value (tens and units) and partitioning? That can also be a stumbling block.
What do you think about dd's writing? Does it look any better than it was at the beginning of the year (don't be fooled by neater handwriting)?

What were the Y1 teacher's end of year assessments?

How did the teacher assess in October?

Did she give you predicted levels at the start of the year? Has she explained why there seems to be slow progress?

At my school, we don't tell parents early levels and predictions (although we would be looking at 3 sublevels progress for most children). We have to answer to the HT if children don't make predicted progress and have to give reasons why. All staff have performance management targets to meet based on children's progress. So if your dd's school is the same, dd's teacher is under pressure!

Feenie Sun 14-Apr-13 14:14:13

The school has to report 2s as 2s and 3s as 3s no matter what sublevel they've added on

That's not true, Eviltwins - if a child is level 2 in Reading, Writing or Maths at the end of KS1 then it has to be sublevelled and reported as a 2c/2b/2a (but not if they are a 3 or a 1). And even though the sublevels don't officially exist in any other context, as you say.

Stroppygirl Sun 14-Apr-13 14:08:25

Hi, thank you very much for your replies. The levels at the start of the year were given in October by the year 2 teacher. And she has also stated that my dd is in the top groups for all subjects. So would this still look like good progress? Many thanks for reading :-)

ipadquietly Sat 13-Apr-13 16:22:47

In Y2 we aim for 3 sublevels over the year, so looking at your dd's predicted levels, progress wouldn't look good!
However the teacher has obviously looked at her levels, reassessed and made revised predictions.
The most obvious reason for this would be the your dd's teacher feels that the Y1 teacher over-assessed her, and she has now made a more realistic judgement. As assessments are scrutinised, and Ofsted measure progress from the end of KS1 to the end of KS2, end of KS1 assessment is very important.

Don't worry about it anyway - the revised levels look quite acceptable. Over the years, we have identified groups of girls who were very good with language in the early years, who plateaued in Y2. It's like they've done the 'Y2 development' a few months earlier than the others. One year I had about 3 or 4 girls like this - this year I've none!

EvilTwins Thu 11-Apr-13 19:11:37

We work on 2 full levels per key stage. I'm secondary though. Bear in mind though that sub-levels are made up. The school has to report 2s as 2s and 3s as 3s no matter what sublevel they've added on.

Stroppygirl Tue 09-Apr-13 14:05:21

Hi, I'm sorry for intruding on the teachers board.But I would really like some advice regarding my dd who is in yr2 please. My dd started yr2 on maths 2c,writing 2c,reading2b/a,we've just had her current levels which are maths 2b end of yr prediction 2b/a,reading current 2a end of yr 2a/3c,writing current 2b end of yr 2b/2a. Is this good progress? Any advice appreciated. Thanks for reading.

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