Feeling guilty about wanting a pedigree cat. Any advice?

(110 Posts)
FuckNugget Wed 31-Jul-13 21:50:09

I have wanted to get a kitten/cat as a family pet for a long time but only recently been able to do so.

I decided I would get a litter pair from a rescue shelter. I've been looking at a few locally and reading their adoption rules. This has ruled out some places but I have been keeping my eye on the kittens/cats they have available.

However, I have also been googling a lot on cars and kittens and came across an advert for the most beautiful BSH kitten not too far from us. I've areanged to go and see it soon. I know I will fall in love with it and probably buy it.

I feel so guilty for this sad. There are hundreds of cats languishing in shelters across the country and I could have provided a good home to two but instead I'm buying a kitten from a breeder.

Should I cancel going to see the kitten and go ahead with my plan to adopt? Or is it ok to want a pedigree? I won't be breeding from it either, will have the cat neutered as soon as it's old enough.

cozietoesie Wed 31-Jul-13 21:56:19

Many of us love the particular characteristics of a certain breed so I wouldn't feel guilty - but if you had already thought about getting a kitten or (presumably) an older cat, why not go for a pedigree rescue? There are plenty of pedigree cats looking for re-homes (owners might have died, emigrated or so on and, sadly like all cats, sometimes there are cruelty cases.)

I just had a quick look see and there seem to be a load of BSH cats (mostly young-mature adults) looking for re-homes at the moment.

smile

Personally I feel it's something you should feel guilty about. There are so many cats and kittens that need homes, and thousands are put to sleep every year because there are not enough homes to go round, that I think it's very wrong to pay someone to encourage them to bring yet more in the world, when you have a home to offer and could play a small part in making things better.

I know there will be a lot of people along who will disagree with me, but that's my opinion. And if you spent some time in any cat rescue centre I know you would feel the same.

FuckNugget Wed 31-Jul-13 22:02:35

cozie, I have looked but there don't seem to be any close to me from a shelter that would approve us (they all have such different rules).

thecat, that is exactly why I feel what I'm doing is wrong sad. I've posted in chat also and someone suggested adopting one rescue kitten alongside the pedigree. Would that work? Ideally I would have liked two anyway to grow up together.

cozietoesie Wed 31-Jul-13 22:12:55

thecatneuterer and I disagree slightly on this particular point.

Why do you want one so quickly, OP, after being without a cat for so long? If I was going for a breed rescue, I'd be prepared to wait a little until one became available - which they sadly and inevitably will. And proximity isn't a determining factor these days. I don't know what BSH kittens cost but the charge that a breed rescue will make for one of their cats (to help defray their costs - they don't make profits) is going to be so significantly less that the difference would easily cover transport I would have thought.

If a shelter doesn't approve you then that is something you should take seriously. They generally know what they're talking about, so if they don't think your home is suitable for their kittens then the chances are it's not suitable for any kittens. What reasons are they giving for saying you're not suitable?

Do they think older cats would be better for your situation? In which case I would listen to them.

And I can't see how adopting a rescue kitten as well negates the moral problem of buying a kitten. Why not just get two rescue ones? I can guarantee that you'll love them just as much as any pedigree once you've got them. Plus you'll have the added satisfaction of knowing you've 'saved' them.

I know you will find plenty of people who will say it's fine to buy a pedigree (and I'm sure some will be along on here in a minute), but I bet none of those who do work in a rescue centre. It does rather tend to colour your view ...

FuckNugget Wed 31-Jul-13 22:21:32

cozie, I'm not in a rush I guess. I happened upon this advert and fell in love with that kitten. I wasn't even considering a pedigree at all until this. But I've read up on the breed and it does seem ideal for our family. I think if I were to cancel this appointment, I would just go ahead with my original plan of adopting non-pedigree cats. I would take the DC with us to choose so could end up with a cat or a kitten (or two).

thecat, just reading their rules (I've not contacted any), there are several that say you must not have preschool aged children. I have a two year old but she is very gentle with cats. My mum has kittens at the moment and she adores them smile. I think our house would be approved though, depending on whether they consider the very quiet road near us as a cut through.

i'm surprised that some rescues have such blanket rules. We (Celia Hammond's) generally say it's fine to home to families with young children, although it will depend on the individual children. In fact I'm pasting below what we say on the subject:

We believe that it is beneficial for children to grow up with pets whom they learn to treat with kindness and respect. It is up to parents to ensure that their children do treat pets kindly, babies and toddlers must be supervised at all times when near cats, it is not fair on your cats if they are handled roughly and any cat that has it's tail pulled or is manhandled by a toddler or young child can bite or scratch.

If you are worried about being able to keep a watchful eye on your young children's interactions with a cat then it would be advisable to wait until they are a little older (5 years or more) so that you can discuss and explain to them how to treat a cat well.

We do frequently receive offers of homes from families whose elderly cat has recently died and are keen for another quickly, as the children in such a home are used to cats introducing friendly new cats should be straightforward even with young children.

There should be areas within a home where cats can get away from young children, stair gates are a useful aid in achieving this as well as a method of keeping the location of a cat litter tray separate from very young children, even a shelf for a cat to sit on out of reach allows the cat it's own safe space within your home. A cat flap also provides a cat with the freedom to come and go as he or she chooses.

Families living in a home without a garden where the cat will be totally kept indoors only should seriously consider waiting until children are older as unless the flat is particularly spacious there are usually limited places where a cat can find peace and quiet.

Being rescued many of our cats are not suitable for homes with young children, many are too shy, some have even had previous bad experiences with children in homes where they were mistreated. However we do also rescue normal, friendly cats and kittens, that would enjoy all the extra love and attention that children will give them.

I am sure there will be some rescues who would happily home to you and others which would maybe be happy for you to have adult cats, but not very young and vulnerable kittens. I would speak to some rescues before writing off the idea. And, as cozie said, if you particularly want a BSH then there are always specialist rescues.

FuckNugget Wed 31-Jul-13 22:43:32

Thank you the cat. I don't think there is a celia Hammond near us. I know this is really wrong of be, but I really want a cream or grey kitten, I think because that's what we had when growing up. I found the most beautiful cream kitten I a shelter close by but their rules stipulated that you couldn't live within 200 yards of a road and no DC. These were their adoption rules for all their cats, not just the kittens.

I have been looking on cat chat mostly, which has links to a fair few rescue places locally. I haven't found any that currently have pedigree cats that are younger than 10 (there was just one). Another place, but too far to travel, had 4 pedigree cats, all beautiful, but they wanted £150 for each.

I hope you will consider other cats/kittens. Cream and grey are quite rare and would be quickly snapped up. Black and black and white cats are languishing in rescues for months or even years as people see them as 'boring'. I guarantee, whatever cat or kitten you end up with you will love just as much as a pretty coloured or pedigree one. Please do consider trying the rescues, and do so with an open mind as to the age/colour/breed.

issey6cats Wed 31-Jul-13 22:55:02

i work for yorkshire cat rescue and being independent our rules are tailored to suit a family wanting to adopt, ie we match a suitable cat or kitten to a family not set the rules that a family has to follow hence either being turned away or adopting an unsuitable cat,

i cant understand not living 200 yds from a road do they only adopt out to people who have to walk up a dirt track to thier house, i live in a cul de sac but theres a road to get to my house ?

i had a BSH who funnily enough came into the rescue at 4.5 yrs, i loved him to bits but he wasnt the brightest cat in the world and had no road sense but was an outdoor indoor cat and too old to change, 18 months later i lost him to the road not outside my house but he had gone further to the main rd, broke my heart

but my ordinary mogs who came from rescue have never gone near the roads they are too savvy

issey6cats Wed 31-Jul-13 22:58:19

and my two black and white tuxedos are the sweetest cats with the most personality i have ever owned ,the ginger and white one is an asbo cat and the pretty stripey half siamese is a thug

FuckNugget Wed 31-Jul-13 22:58:20

I know, I know, and I feel awful for admitting it blush.

I wouldn't mind waiting until a grey or cream kitten came in, as it is I can't get a kitten until September as I am moving. However, that brings other problems as other shelters won't adopt to people in rented accommodation. My circumstances are a bit different though as my dad will be my landlord so no danger of being evicted.

I just don't think I could bring myself to call a rescue and say 'oh, I really would live a kitten but only a particular colour one' blush. In truth, if probably go along and let the DC choose although I know they'll want ginger as that is what my mum has confused.

bonzo77 Wed 31-Jul-13 22:58:46

I would always go with rescue.

Bit hmm about the 200 yards from a road thing. Does that mean they only rehome to country mansions?

cozietoesie Wed 31-Jul-13 23:00:02

That £150 will just go as help to costs. Many if not most pedigree rescues are no-kill centres so any cats that are just too mentally or physically traumatized to be re-homed are often cared for by breed enthusiasts until they die. Also, and even with sympathetic vets who might offer their own services free or at low cost, there will often be vet costs - and simply the food and watering costs of keeping even the healthier cats until someone homes them.

These centres don't make money out of their animals - indeed most are desperate for funds most of the time - and that £150 will pale in comparison with the cost of a new kitten.

FuckNugget Wed 31-Jul-13 23:02:05

issey, I did read that BSH are a bit dim grin. Some breeders specify they be indoor cats only hmm.

I will be living in a cul de sac actually but there is a road at the bottom, not a main road though.

I'm in yorkshire, I have looked at your site. Any cream or grey kittens/cats at the moment? wink.

issey6cats Wed 31-Jul-13 23:04:39

you wouldnt be the first person to have a preference, we have people who wait for gingers or they lost a ginger cat and want a black cat this time as different to last cat, but grey or cream err one lady waited 9 months for a grey to come in and then it was the wrong sex!!, and in 6 years of working there i have probably seen maybe 4 or 5 cream kittens as moggies tend to be , black, black and white, ginger, tabby or tortie as mommies are not fussy who de daddy is and gentics produces these colours first, my stripey one his mom was a feral tabby and dad a posh siamese from the nearby caravan site so he looks like a siamese with a striped coat

FuckNugget Wed 31-Jul-13 23:05:07

bonzo, I can't remember the exact distance as there were a few rescues that specified the distance. I'll see if I can find the rules from the one with the cream kitten.

cozie, in truth, if these cats were closed, if have happily paid £150 but they are too far sad. The kitten I am seeing is £200 but obviously will need neutering, chipping etc on top.

FuckNugget Wed 31-Jul-13 23:06:07

*closer, I'd

issey6cats Wed 31-Jul-13 23:08:16

the best thing to do is look us up on facebook as the foster moms put pics on of kittens while they are in foster gets publicity, ring them they will know whos got who and believe me there is no shortage of kittens, i think they have about 50 in foster at the moment, theres one litter born this week thats two tabbies one ginger, one black and one grey tabby, so they will be around ten weeks from now before they come back to the center, at our rescue all kittens are neutered, chipped and the fee is £60 per kitten

fossil971 Wed 31-Jul-13 23:13:34

We have re-homed from a pedigree cat club twice (4 cats in all) but there is a tradition in our family of having that breed and I was quite keen. You could try talking to the breed club and let them know you would be interested if anything comes up within reasonable travelling distance. I have a bit of a dilemma now myself as the latest fossilcat is getting elderly and I would like kittens or very young cats next, but am hooked on Burmese.

FuckNugget Wed 31-Jul-13 23:17:23

We do not rehome to properties without direct access to a garden. It is shelter policy not to rehome kittens if you live within 120 metres of a railway line or busy road. These include main roads, bus routes, school runs or roads used as short-cuts. For adult cats, individual circumstances will be taken into account depending on age or gender of cat. We do not rehome to rented properties. We will not rehome single kittens to households where no-one is at home during the day or any kittens with children under 5 years. No cat will be considered for rehoming where a child is under 3 years. A cat flap must be fitted if you are in full-time employment. All homes will be subject to a home visit.

These are the rules from one rescue with a beautiful cream kitten which I'd snap up but we fall foul of these rules sad.

I shall look at the fb page, thank you issey.

'don't rehome to rented properties' - that's bonkers! Whatever are they thinking?

cozietoesie Wed 31-Jul-13 23:27:42

Crazy, eh? I mean as a blanket rule.

issey6cats Wed 31-Jul-13 23:31:23

your welcome believe it or not we had two grey brothers (kittens ) last week who were rehomed together and the lady wanted a ginger one originally lol

InGloriousTechnicolor Wed 31-Jul-13 23:36:26

I really believe in getting cats from rescue centres. My boy cat is from the RSPCA and he is such an amazing character, and I feel it makes it a bit more special that I 'rescued' him (even though he would probably have been snapped up because he is handsome and friendly). But blimey, they don't make it easy for people to adopt cats, do they? All these restrictions about roads etc. I think it's very unrealistic. Any cat can get run over or have an accident. As long as it's adopted into a loving and caring home, what's the difference?

I suspect that if you went to a rescue centre (if you could find one that would actually let you adopt hmm ) you would fall in love with a cat as soon as you met it. That's what happened to us.

FuckNugget Wed 31-Jul-13 23:37:59

There were other shelters that had equally strict rules but they vary. Do you think it might be worth enquiring anyway about the kitten? They can only say no?

Oh no issey! I've just looked at the fb page and seems I've missed out on a few grey cats sad. That little one that was in the news! So cute! I know I'm being fickle but any cat we get will be loved so so much smile.

Ok, so I'm going off the idea of this pedigree. How do I cancel? I keep looking at the photo and it is the most beautiful cat I've ever seen - gorgeous markings - and the breeder says she is really affectionate and friendly sad.

WetAugust Wed 31-Jul-13 23:41:43

120 metres from a bus route? Well that's about 3,000 households on my quiet residential estate with a bus route running through it ruled out then.
Crazy rule.

Rented ban I do agree with having just taken on a lovely rabbit who's had to be rehomed when his owners moved rentals. It must have broken their hearts to have to have given him up (and his too).

Daftest rule I've seen is about rabbits having permanent access to outdoor run. In my area they would last one evening before the fox got them. The rabbits get safely locked in their hutches at night and brought out each morning to their runs. The other daft rule is no double-decker hutches. My buns love being upstairs in their hutches. If you could see my big bun leaping on and off the patio table you wouldn't worry about him managing a tiny ramp in a double decker hutch.

I rang our local RSCPA 3 weeks ago to see about adopting 2 kittens. I got an answermachine. Press 1 to report cruelty, Press 2 to make a donation Press 3 to discuss work experience Press 4 for non-urgent queries.

I concluded that "Do you have any kittens" fell into the Press 4 category. Pressed 4 and was told "Please contact us by email with your non-urgent enquiry". Line went dead. I went elsewhere. What made me really angry was that this same RSPCA kennels/cattery is not taking on volunteers as it has too many - well it doesn't have enough to man the bloody phones!

issey6cats Wed 31-Jul-13 23:44:59

fleur she is adorable and is reserved, i was playing with her last friday as they have 4 orphans around the same age in the house at the moment and being as the weather was good last friday they were allowed on the lawn for a bit of play, the thing with the pedigree one is if you cancel she will have other people interested if shes a good breeder she should have a waiting list of people for her kittens,

FuckNugget Wed 31-Jul-13 23:45:14

wetaugust my DSis tried to adopt a rabbit from the RSPCA but they wouldn't allow it due to the run thing sad. It seems crazy that they would put these rules in place when there are cats waiting to be PTS. Surely someone like myself, who may not meet their rules, but would provide a secure and loving home, is preferable? confused.

WetAugust Wed 31-Jul-13 23:45:39

I know what people mean about wanting certain colours. I felt as though I had done my bit (suffered enough) for the tortoiseshells of this world and really wanted my next cat to be black and white. But it's difficult to say that.

I agreed to take 2 female litter mates and when I went to see them luckily 1 was black and white - and the other is a dreaded tortoisehell - but she is absolutely gorgeous and very sociable (unlike the last 2 torties I loved to bits anyway).

FunnysInLaJardin Wed 31-Jul-13 23:45:43

IME pedigree cats are a PITA. We now have 2 farm cats and have had them for 7 years. They wander here and there, catch a lot of their own food in the summer and are very good company. Go for a moggie, much better value and no vets bills to date!

FuckNugget Wed 31-Jul-13 23:47:30

I realise that if I don't reserve this kitten when I see it, it will go to someone else but then like thecat said, I am buying into a practice I disagree with sad. She is a beautiful kitten but then so are your everyday moggies and I could prevent two from being PTS? I don't know, I'm struggling with this.

FuckNugget Wed 31-Jul-13 23:49:14

I think I might call the place with the cream moggy and see if they will bend the rules for us although I doubt it.

JakeBullet Wed 31-Jul-13 23:50:47

WetAugust, I just read your post out to my Naughty Tortie....she was appalled grin

OP if you really like BSH cats then take a look at the BSH sites around. Sometimes rescues do come up on these sites.

FuckNugget Wed 31-Jul-13 23:53:31

That's the thing jake, I like the breed but I'm not that fussed in truth. It's just this kitten. I've never seen a kitten with such beautiful markings. It sounds similar actually to issey's Siamese cross. It has really pale chocolate tabby markings but is mostly cream.

WetAugust Wed 31-Jul-13 23:53:53

The run thing is simply wrong. There is no way you can attach a fox proof run to an open hutch. A fox is a strong animal and would either dig in or rip the structure. The rabbits would be terrified. The only way my big bun survived a fox attack was by running up the ramp of his (unapproved by the RSPCA) hutch and hiding in his bedroom area where the fox couldn't get him.

There is also a 6ft wide hutch rule for even individual rabbits. There are very few 6ft hutches on the market most are 5ft max. Mine are only in their hutch overnight so with a double decker they have 10ft overall.

Since having these kittens I realise that I've been doing it all wrong for that last 32 years that I've been keeping cats. I used to be told never feed a dry food only diet as the biscuit swells in their stomachs and they'll get kidney failure. So I've always fed wet food. With the kittens comes the instruction and vet advice to feed only dry as it's better for their teeth!

And then we have the do they go out or stay in at night..........

WetAugust Wed 31-Jul-13 23:56:34

Jake - I loved all my torties really wink

FuckNugget - don't beat yourself up. Look at it as doing your bit towards maintaining diversification. If no one bought the pedigrees all we would have would be mogs like my 2. grin
<awaits flaming>

FuckNugget Wed 31-Jul-13 23:56:54

Ooh, I've got all that to come wetaugust. Alot of breeders, I have noticed, recommend that their BSHs are kept indoors but don't know how I feel about that :/

FuckNugget Wed 31-Jul-13 23:59:00

I know it's not the perfect solution, but maybe getting a rescue as well as the bsh would be a good compromise? I'll take the ugliest, hardest to home kitten in the shelter to even things out grin.

(I'm joking before anyone flames me grin)

Lonecatwithkitten Wed 31-Jul-13 23:59:33

As a multi scarred BSH owner I will never have another. My moggies have been beautiful delightful cats. I have had two BSH both male one rescue and one from kitten they have been some of the meanest cats I have ever meet - I know not the case with most BSH. But it seems the mean ones are really mean they will solicit attention and then suddenly turn and bite hard.
Just wanted to let you know they are not all cats with lovely personalities. The current one is so mean I don't let other people's children near him!

WetAugust Thu 01-Aug-13 00:00:36

Nooooo! FuckNugget. That is one rule that I can't go along with at all. Cats need their freedom. If you want an indoor pet get a house bunny. My latest adopted bun was a house bunny and he's not very happy at being outdoors in a hutch. He stands by the kitchen door hoping we'll let him in. If we do he lies in the middle of the living room and watches TV grin

No - you cannot keep a cat indoors. If you do I shall have to call you a shallow person that judges things by their appearance. There - that told you grin

Manchesterhistorygirl Thu 01-Aug-13 00:01:23

Please, please rescue a cat. We've just taken in a black 9 month old
Tom. He's so lovely and needed a forever home.

issey6cats Thu 01-Aug-13 00:03:20

if you look on my pics there are my cats and some of the kittens i have fostered for yorkshire cat rescue and the hardest kitten to take back to the center was the black one on top of the scratching post, korki was a darling

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 00:03:35

Oh gosh, really lone? That does put me off somewhat! When I was young, a local farmer turned up with two feral kittens asking if we wanted them as he was going to drown them sad. Of course we said yes. One turned out to be the most lovely natured friendly cat, the other was a menace (tortie as well wink) so I guess it's luck of the draw? I'd hate to be lumbered with a vicious cat though!

WetAugust Thu 01-Aug-13 00:04:18

Both my torties were like that Lone - vicious little sods. They'd accept affection on their terms. If they sat on your lap, as soon as you made the slightest movement they'd hiss, scratch and bite. Next minute they'd be purring at you . Mental behaviour. I'm hoping new tortie kitten will stay 'friendly'.

I always rescue the black cats as they are really hard to re-home. It makes me happy to get the ugly misfits.

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 00:08:56

wetaugust, I don't think I could coup the cat up all day no matter what the breeder said. But I must say, you are a good judge of character grin. I don't know why I care so much about having a 'pretty' cat. Lord knows my stbexh is ugly as sin and I have him a home for 13 years grin.

I've looked at your photos issey, they are beautiful cats! The Siamese cross looks different to how I pictured him. I'm tempted to upload a pic of this kitten but not sure if the breeder uses MN and will be cross?

What do people think of my middle ground suggestion? I know thecatneuterer isn't keen but might be a good middle ground?

issey6cats Thu 01-Aug-13 00:09:17

black cats always have beautiful eyes well folks i have an appointment with joe ortons diaries so goodnight and whatever you decide to do nuggett it will be the right decision for you smile

WetAugust Thu 01-Aug-13 00:09:57

Tis cos black cats don't photograph very well. They always look like silhouettes. Friend had 2 black litter mates once - even she had trouble telling them apart - something to do with one of them having a barely noticeable kink in its tail.

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 00:13:00

Toughasoldboot, I must admit, I've come across a few one eyed or one legged cats and been tempted. They either have to be stunningly pretty <shallow> or um, shall we say, unique ugly.

I will endeavour to get a one legged, one eyed, black cat along with my bsh grin.

There was one stunning cat in one shelter but as she'd been in a rta they needed a very particular home for her, retired older person I think it said.

shufflehopstep Thu 01-Aug-13 00:13:25

I'm not a cat person, I'm a dog person, but my views on pedigrees are the same for both. I'd definitely urge you to go with your instinct and re-home a non-pedigree moggie.

I'm not particularly militant about it but I do feel uneasy about breeding pedigree animals in general. I think if you buy from breeders - even reputable ones - you create a demand for pedigrees and so encourage the less reputable breeders who are out to make some easy money.

My mutt from the dogs' home is just as lovely as any pedigree even if he does have wonky eyes. grin He was the best £50 we ever spent. smile

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 00:14:13

Thanks for all your advice issey, I shall keep you all updated. Give me a shout if by miraculous chance you get a grey or cream cat in soon wink.

WetAugust Thu 01-Aug-13 00:16:05

Fuck My first was an absolutely stunning calico tortoishell with almond shaped eyes. She was a real stunner - a bit like this sort of thing but more pronounced

She went missing for a week once and came back very changed in her personality. I was discussing this with the vet and he said - are you sure it's your cat that came back and not a different cat, which would explain the personality change.

FFS! If she'd just been black I'd have agreed but my cat's markings were absolutely Unique. I just put it down to him opening mouth without engaging brain.

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 00:17:12

That's the thing for me shuffle, I'm totally going against my own principles by considering this. I have always been adamant that I would never get a pedigree from a breeder but I have been bedazzled by a pretty kitten.

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 00:20:01

wetaugust, that is one stunning cat! Really beautiful! I wonder what happened to have changed her personality? And weird vet too!

It does worry me a bit that if I got this bsh kitten she would be stolen. She's just too beautiful. I think I'd call her siren smile.

WetAugust Thu 01-Aug-13 00:20:08

Anyway - always get 2 kittens. They are companions for each other. Up until now I've only ever had one kitten at once - with the adults.

they are so much playful when they are together. I'd never get a single kitten again. By the way that's the latest rule for one sanctuary near me - kittens rehomed in pairs only unless there is an adult cat in the home.

tabulahrasa Thu 01-Aug-13 00:20:22

The British shorthair kitten is £200? That seems suspiciously cheap to me.

WetAugust Thu 01-Aug-13 00:22:01

Get her chipped.

How about getting her and making a donation to your local animal shelter in penance? Salves conscience and saves cats - win win situation.

WetAugust Thu 01-Aug-13 00:24:06

I didn't know there was a pedigree breed called BSH. I thought it just stood for British Short Hair - i.e. a mog with short hair as opposed to a mog with long hair. I have looked on my mogs vac certificates and all are shown as BSH + their colour. Now very confused that my vet may be very confused IYSWIM confused

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 00:24:06

My original plan would have been to get a litter pair for that reason wetaugust. If I do get this kitten, then I will get a rescue as a companion too I think.

tahbula, I've looked it up and there is a lot of variation in price. I'm not sure if this has papers but the breeder has both parents to look at. I won't be showing it or breeding so the papers are of no difference to me. I think even if she'd been a moggy I would have got her, she's so pretty.

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 00:25:57

I think moggies are domestic short hair as opposed to British short hair? I think moggies are probably just descended from BSHs or vice versa although there are certain characteristics of the breed that lack in domestic short hair cats.

WetAugust Thu 01-Aug-13 00:26:02

I'd be wary about mixing a mog kitten with a pedigree. All my mogs have come to me flea-infested and one was at death's door. One of them could be harbouring disease. Could you wait until ped kitten had grown up a bit and get a mog teenager for her to play with?

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 00:27:39

That might be a good way to do it. I'd only get one from a rescue as a companion and if hope it would have been deflead etc.

WetAugust Thu 01-Aug-13 00:28:09

Thanks - I'll tell my vet to start using DSH. <am starting to think the vet is a bit dim actually>

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 00:29:03

grin

WetAugust Thu 01-Aug-13 00:29:43

Well that way you can get one that's old enough to have had its Feliflu and leukaemia vacs before you introduce it to princess pussy.

Doodledumdums Thu 01-Aug-13 00:29:56

Slightly off topic, but I do feel that a lot of rescue centres shoot themselves in the foot a bit sometimes when it comes to their rehoming rules. In an ideal world, obviously all animals would be placed in absolutely perfect homes, but it isn't an ideal world, and many homes (while not being perfect) would be favorable to the animal spending significant amounts of time in a rescue centre. I am not knocking rescue centres, I think they do an amazing job, I just think that sometimes a bit of rule bending is necessary, as if it was a bit easier to adopt then people may be more inclined to do that rather than just go out and buy a puppy/kitten IYSWIM?

My friend tried to re-home two elderly dogs, she had a lovely house, no children under 15, was home all day, had experience with dogs, had no other pets, a lovely big garden etc. The dogs were very small, and were 9 and 12 years old and had lived in a flat with an old lady who had sadly died. My friend was refused adoption, based on the fact that the fence in her garden was only 5ft?! I mean possibly if she had been looking to adopt an 18 month old labrador, that may have been an issue, but small elderly dogs...really?! She did appeal the decision and was granted adoption, and the two dogs lived another couple of years each in total bliss, and the fence never was an issue, but many people would probably have given up at the first no, and then those two dogs would more than likely have spent their last couple of years in a rescue centre because on the whole, people don't want elderly animals.

Sorry...that wasn't particularly relevant was it?! In answer to your OP, I don't think you need to feel guilty, if you want a BSH then that is your choice. Get a rescue cat as well as the BSH kitten, and then it will all be even smile

HoopersGinger Thu 01-Aug-13 00:32:48

I have 2 rescue torties. They're sisters and we have had them since they were tiny. One will only come near me and us obsessive about me. The other is friendly to all. The problem I have is they are both hunters and scavengers. They will do anything to gain access to the bedrooms including leaping off cars, setting off alarms and going into next doors bedrooms through the windows.

tabulahrasa Thu 01-Aug-13 00:35:41

hmm, papers matter...not because you need them to have a lovely pet, but because they tell you that the breeder has kept to the GCCF code of ethics and has bred two cats that are registered pedigrees.

If there are no papers, why haven't they done it? It's not hard or expensive...

WetAugust Thu 01-Aug-13 00:38:00

I agree with you Doodle

They do seem up place unnecessary hurdles to adoption while tolerating things that I personally object to - such as house cats.

I suppose they want to do the best they can for the animal but when you read on their sites that 'Flossie has been with us for 8 year now' - I'm thinking to myself what on earth is wrong with you or Flossie that she hasn't found a home in 8 years - when she looks gorgeous and has no vices confused

There' s this horrible expression that has crept in recently 'Forever Home'. Nobody, with the best will in the world can promise categorically to provide the same home for a pet for the full length of it's natural life. Shit happens out of the blue, e.g. illness, road accidents, carbon monoxide poisoning - Ok I'm getting desperate but you get the drift. All you can promise is a good, caring home that will be provided for as long as it's humanly possible to do so and careful arrangements will be made for the continuing welfare of the pet should someone no longer be able to care for it e.g. Cinnamon Trust etc.

WetAugust Thu 01-Aug-13 00:41:03

YepHoopers More evidence that all torties are indeed mad. Turns out that penultimate cat and new kitten are both torbies i.e. tortoiseshell tabbies. Never heard that term until recently and I bet my dim vet hasn't. grin

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 00:43:41

Not at all off topic doodle. If I met the criteria for the place whose rules I posted up thread would approve me for the cream kitten, I wouldn't even have been looking at other cats.

Oh, good point wetaugust, I hadn't thought of vaccination issues. Will look at slightly older kittens that have been vaccinated for sure.

I actually think some forties are very pretty, especially tortie and white. Have my heart set on a grey or cream though for some reason.

tahbula, I don't know whether it does or doesn't have papers but I will be sure to ask about that. The breeder has another litter advertised too so I'm not sure of that has something to do with the price? I've seen a few advertised for less though so didn't think much of it. I will ask her why when I go to see it.

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 00:46:11

Never heard of torbies either wetaugust. Off to google now grin.

WetAugust Thu 01-Aug-13 00:48:30

Can't you get 2 from this same breeder and make a slightly larger donation to a shelter to compensate grin

Gets over the cross-infection problem nicely and you get 2 of the same age?

My friend adopted a grey and white tuxedo a few months ago. I have seen tuxedo black and whites (I have one) but never grey white. She is an absolutely stunning mog.

MumnGran Thu 01-Aug-13 00:57:11

Please consider going to one of the Breed Rescues....there are more pedigree cats needing rehoming than people realise, and the Welfare Officers for the Breed Club is more likely to know of them than any local rescue. They are just as much in need, as any other rescued cat.
The full list of clubs (who all have a welfare officer) can be accessed here
Specifically for British ...here or here or here

Note of caution: one or two of these are offering ex breeding girls. Some Breed Rescues allow this, others not. I would just say beware that not all breeders keep their cats as adored pets and if considering a cat with this background, you would need to be very sure that she has lived indoors and is used to lots of love and TLC.

tabulahrasa Thu 01-Aug-13 00:58:18

Like I said, papers matter because they tell you about the breeder, but there's other stuff you'll need to ask as well.

Pedigree kittens aren't sold until 13 weeks - when they've had all their vaccinations (so actually another unvaccinated kitten wouldn't be an issue), the parents should have health certificates clearing them of certain illnesses before they're bred from (I think it's HCM and PKD in BSHs?) that's not the same as just a health check from the local vet.

They also usually come with 6 weeks free insurance and at least a sample pack of the food they're on.

If a breeder has skipped any of that, I'd be worried about what else they've cut corners on. If you're going to buy a kitten you want to buy one from somebody who's breeding them and treating them properly.

A good breeder should be more than willing to tell you everything you want to know, more than likely even more than you want to know about their cats in fact, lol. They'll also want to quiz you - because they want to decide whether you're the right home for the kitten. They should also be willing (in fact insist) on taking back the kitten if you ever need to rehome it.

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 00:59:46

I'd love to get two but I don't think I could afford it. Yes, I've seen grey tuxedos and they are gorgeous too smile.

There are a few grey moggies for sale here and there but it presents the same moral dilemma but slightly worse IMO.

MumnGran Thu 01-Aug-13 01:03:22

Re buying pedigree kittens ....
the Governing Council of the Cat Fancy offer guidelines to people looking for kittens. You can find them here Reputable breeders will comply with GCCF guidelines.
Cheaper does not always = the best option.

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 01:05:17

mumgran, thank you for those links. I will make some calls tomorrow before I go to see the kitten and good advice about ex breeding queens. I've seen a few people selling ex- queens too sad.

Thank you ever so much tahbula, all brilliant advice. I spoke to the breeder on the phone and she is happy to hold into the kitten a bit longer while I move so it will be older than 13 weeks. It comes with insurance and a 'kitten pack' (food and things). I shall have to have my logical head on, I don't want to fall in love and buy anyway without checking.

tabulahrasa Thu 01-Aug-13 01:14:55

I don't see pedigree cats as any different to pedigree dogs, different breeds have different appeal and personality, they're not superior to moggies, but they are different.

If you want a specific breed then you find someone who is breeding carefully, takes care over selling kittens and wants to be responsible for them if anything goes wrong.

You don't give your money to people throwing together any cat any old way with no regard to health because that just encourages them to do it again.

That way you might not be taking in a rescue cat, but you're doing your best not to add to the situation either and there's nothing to stop you also contacting breed rescues or having a rescue kitten as well.

deliasmithy Thu 01-Aug-13 01:49:48

I have a russiam blue, a grey short hair who looks on the siamese side.
Bought her from breeder, she came with papers etc.
I still keep in contact with breeder some 5 years later. They love the odd update photo.
Good luck with whatever you choose. I'd love to have a bsh. I don't think there is an ethical issue to buying a cat that has been bred. Bsh are a healthy breed.

Fluffycloudland77 Thu 01-Aug-13 17:02:13

Have you looked on cat chat.org? Or for a BSH rescue?. Personally I'm a sucker for black cats.

My advice on getting kittens is to avoid Bengals.

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 19:22:27

Thanks all for the replies.

I have an update: I'm in love!! grin

She was the most gorgeously beautiful kitten. I spent an hour with her, the breeder seemed to know her stuff and wanted assurances that I wouldn't breed from her. All paper work correct.

She was nervous for all of 10 minutes but curled herself up and fell asleep in my hand smile. She brought out another kitten and the difference in personality was quite marked. My kitten was definitely very friendly.

Still feeling the guilt but can't wait to pick her up when des ready. Will upload a pic later. Might need some babe suggestions.

I have also made some calls to local shelters to get her a playmate - said I'm not fussed on colour and will take the most difficult to regime kitten so just waiting to hear back about that smile.

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 19:23:36

Oops, lots of typos. Hope it made sense!

riojabotherer Thu 01-Aug-13 20:03:38

She sounds addictive! Good that she has papers. Surely a pedigree without papers is not a pedigree, but rather a very expensive moggy.

riojabotherer Thu 01-Aug-13 20:04:36

Also, did you get to see her parents, or at least her mum?

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 20:13:41

She is! I didn't want to leave her and she was so comfy sleeping on my hand smile.

Yes, both parents were there and she showed me pics of the grandparents too, all her own cats. She's a serious breeder by all accounts. The paperwork showed 5 generations and there are champions in her bloodline.

The main thing was her lovely temperament and I could see she was very healthy and well handled and looked after so I'm very happy that I have taken a kitten from a reputable breeder.

shufflehopstep Thu 01-Aug-13 20:20:57

If it's love, there's not a lot you can do about it wink. I hope you are both very happy together. smile

issey6cats Thu 01-Aug-13 22:43:06

dont feel guilty it was obviously meant to be and glad that she is coming from a responsible breeder, and dont forget to update us on when you get a rescue kitten aswell. dont forget yorkshire cat rescue (hint hint) when you are ready we always have far to many kittens to rehome, they had three moms and 12 kittens dumped in a box over the gate a couple of weeks ago, the center is small (14 pens) and we are a friendly bunch smile

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 22:49:54

It was l

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 22:53:27

Love at first sight shuffle. I knew I wouldn't be able to walk away from her if I went to see her but the fact that she is so affectionate just clinched it smile.

Thank you so much issey. I called the local cats protection league today and they are calling back tomorrow to discuss with me. How long can I leave it between getting the two kittens? I'm assuming at some point the first to come home will be the dominant cat? Don't want to leave it so late that they won't get on. Will they get on ok do you think? Sorry for all the questions blush.

I will definitely get in touch if CPL can't help smile.

issey6cats Thu 01-Aug-13 22:57:38

i would say time it so they both come together that way they will bond pretty quickly, we usually rehome two kittens from same litter if possible if someone wants two, but people have adopted two kittens from different litters who were in at the time and has not been a problem because they went together

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 23:05:53

Thanks issey. How long does the adoption process usually take and would they hold into a kitten so I could time it so they came home the same day? She was quietly hissing at the other kitten from another litter today, I was grin.

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 23:07:13

Grrr! I can't upload a picture. Will try again tomorrow.

issey6cats Thu 01-Aug-13 23:21:46

i dont know about cpl but at ours if you come down to the center most of the kittens are available the day you see them, we dont do home checks various reasons why, before anyone jumps in and asks why not, the procedure at ours is we ask questions that are pertinent, we show you suitable kittens (or cats for those not wanting a kitten) and if you like anyone you fill out the adoption forms and can take your cat that day, or some of the kittens have been spayed/ neutered the day before so we keep them for 5 days to make sure they have recovered from thier ops and these can be reserved and we let you know what day they are available that week

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 23:31:25

That sounds a good way to do things issey. Cpl do want to do a home check so obviously this will take longer. And there is the chance we won't be approved I suppose depending on how stringent their rules on adoption are. I emailed about the cream kitten today - he is still available but they've asked some more questions (which I expected) and I know they will reject us sad. I shall keep you posted smile.

tabulahrasa Thu 01-Aug-13 23:37:58

They're usually dead adaptable for months, it's usually only once they're proper adults that they don't make friends with other cats as easily.

Oh and which one comes first doesn't matter anything like as much as personalities when they decide which one is in charge.

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 23:43:39

Oh that sounds promising tahbula. Having never adopted a rescue before, I wasn't sure on how things will be timed but I guess the breeder will be ok to hold on the BSH for me anyway smile.

issey6cats Thu 01-Aug-13 23:48:19

as tabs said depends on the personality of the cat females are usually the bosses in a house, i have a brother and sister who are 7 ,a boy (the ginger ninja ) who is coming up 6 and the half siamese is two, guess who is boss in our house yes the 3lb girl cos shes the girl in the house, until she went the other ginger girl was the boss see a pattern here, nugget the best combo is being as you are getting a girl kitten ,is a boy kitten would probably be the best option as that way madam will be boss without any work needing doing so she will be happy

FuckNugget Thu 01-Aug-13 23:54:25

Ah, ok. That sounds good. I told cpl that I didn't mind which sex but I shall tell them that a boy would be best.

I can see BSH being the boss, she does a mean grumpy face grin.

BerylStreep Thu 01-Aug-13 23:56:29

Hope you have a hard hat.

I got an absolute flaming on here about 2 years ago for (naively) saying I wanted a pedigree cat. Things got a bit heated.

Anyway, I ended up with 2 Burmese - rehomed the mummy, and bought her kitten. They are simply wonderful (well apart from the bird catching, poo wiping, and nail varnish smashing smile).

Go for the cats you want. I have grown up with cats all my life, and my two Burmese are by far the most sociable and affectionate cats we have ever had.

FuckNugget Fri 02-Aug-13 00:09:07

Beryl, in fairness I fully expected a roasting but I think posters have actually been quite kind. I would have taken it on the chin, however, because I actually agree with the reasons for not buying a cat when there are so many waiting adoption. I don't know if I have this wrong, but I don't think buying a pedigree dog as opposed to a mongrel is seen as bad as buying a pedigree cat?

In any event, I'm a total hypocrite as I just today put a deposit down on a BSH grin. Whilst I do feel guilty in many ways for doing this, she is a beautiful and affectionate cat from a responsible breeder and as long as she is loved and well cared for then that is the main thing IMO. I am going to adopt a rescue kitten alongside though if I can find a shelter that will allow it smile.

My grandmother has Burmese cats, they were absolutely lovely. And it's great to hear from someone who is happy with their decision to have pedigree cats flowers.

issey6cats Fri 02-Aug-13 00:25:01

nugget people care about cats on here and like any subject you will get people who condemm pedigree buying because they see the heartache behind rescue from working with rescue cats, and you will get the people who will only like pedigrees because you almost know what you are getting, pedigrees more predictable, i would give my right arm for a pedigree siamese cat but my budget is way out to afford one, so when blue came into the center at 7 months and he is definitely half siamese, i not only fell in love with him instantly he is probably the nearest i will ever got to my ideal cat

BerylStreep Fri 02-Aug-13 00:33:11

In fairness, the breeder I got mine off clearly was doing it for the love of the breed rather than money. She was adorable, and I got the mummy for free, as she rehouses her queens after only 2 litters as she thinks it is unhealthy for them to have more than that. There is other stuff about her, that is just too identifying, but she is lovely.

FuckNugget Fri 02-Aug-13 00:41:26

I agree totally issey. When I began to seriously think about getting a cat as the time is now 'right', I was adamant that I would only get a rescue cat. It was only when I realised that some shelters make it very hard to adopt that I began perusing the local ads online, not with any seriousness though, I definitely didn't want to pay £60-£70 to an irresponsible person who was profiting from their own negligence as a pet owner by not having their pet neutered angry.

It was just this particular kitten that had me smitten and I did that dangerous thing of 'oh, it won't hurt to see if it's still available'. Once the seed was planted though, it started seeming more acceptable. The breeder did say that sometimes she gets kittens that can't be sold for any number of reasons and she'd be happy to let me have one as a companion for the kitten I have bought. Whilst the offer is tempting, I would still really like to adopt a rescue cat. And I can honestly say, both will be loved equally.

It must be so difficult to work in an animal shelter and see the irresponsibility of some people. Just looking through the ads, there are so many people selling young adult cats which is so sad considering how many are in rescues as well sad.

FuckNugget Fri 02-Aug-13 00:47:53

Beryl, your breeder sounds very responsible. Whilst I struggled with my conscience over this, I wouldn't have given any money to an irresponsible breeder as then I would be supporting their practises.

tabulahrasa Fri 02-Aug-13 01:02:24

Nope dog people can be just as flamey as cat people - I have cats and a dog, lol.

Yes it's great to rescue - but if you think a certain breed is right for you, you can't always find what you're after in a rescue.

The important thing I think is to make sure you're not then becoming part of the problem by giving money to someone who is breeding the wrong way or irresponsibly. Responsible breeders are willing to take pets they've bred back at any point in their life for any reason, because they care what happens to them - that means that hopefully the rescue situation doesn't suffer because of them.

The more people that know how to find a good breeder the better because that makes it harder for people churning them out any old way to make money.

I've got a wee tabby, she's very sweet, but she's not as well suited to me as my Siamese...not because she doesn't have a pedigree, but because she's well, catlike, lol, she goes off doing cat things most of the day, comes home for food and I'm only allowed to stroke her when she decides she wants me to. My Siamese follows me round talking to me all day, ready to drape herself on me at every available opportunity, I like that, clearly I'm needy, lol.

When both my girls are gone, it'd be another Siamese I'd want - and I will try to get a rescue one, but if I can't find one that suits my situation at the time, I'll go to a good breeder.

cozietoesie Fri 02-Aug-13 07:37:03

As I said at the beginning, some of us love the characteristics of a particular breed. For myself, it's Siamese. I was given my first Siamese more years ago than I care to remember and for me they've been friends ever since. Sure I've had other cats - The Lodger, for example, was a wonderful boy who we took off the street. He wasn't a Siamese though - wasn't a shadow to me, a constant flipping pain in the neck companion like Seniorboy currently is. Some breeds of cat are just different.

As with tabulah , I'll probably go for a breed rescue when Seniorboy goes - or find another responsible breeder if there are no rescue cats needing homes. (Getting a cat from a good breeder isn't always that easy, by the way, be your cheque book ever so ready to hand. Took me months (and several interviews) to persuade Oneago's breeder to let me have one of her kits.)

Best of luck with your new kit when she comes.

SilverOldie Fri 02-Aug-13 19:02:26

I've always had rescue cats and could never justify to myself buying from a breeder. BUT, I have always yearned after a korat cat www.cfa.org/Breeds/BreedsKthruR/Korat.aspx

I believe one of my cats may have had some korat in him, grey banded fur and although I've loved each of my cats, he was so affectionate, intelligent and beautiful and I still miss him.

I don't think I will ever weaken but it doesn't stop me wanting.

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