I can't cope with my dog anymore :( be gentle please.

(69 Posts)
TheTempest Mon 29-Jul-13 18:24:19

I have a 7 yo Patterdale who we got from a friend of a friends dad. Bad idea I know now.

We've had her for a year now and I really thought I was getting somewhere with her. We have been doing PAT with her as she was too snappy and barky at other dogs.

She slipped her harness today got her muzzle off and attacked another dog. Bit it in 4 places, the dog has had to stay in the vets overnight and it's coating us nearly 400 pounds.

I'm at the end of my tether, she had been so much better. She laid down and looked at me afterwards.

I absolutely adore her but I can't cope with this anymore hmmhmmhmm

Where do I go from here? She's had a vet check and nothing wrong, seen a behaviourist who said she wasn't aggressive. I'm a horrible d

ClaimedByMe Mon 29-Jul-13 18:38:09

I have a dog aggressive dog and after nearly a year we are having one bad day a week instead of one good day a week, I can sympathise with the amount of work you are putting in, the relapses are heartbreaking.

We a SBT and were told not to use a harness on her as her pulling against it while walking empowers her or dog behaviourist advised a rope lead and there has been a great improvement I think that's because I feel more confident using it.

I would find another behaviourist and do you have insurance that covers her attacking other dogs, ours does.

I am not familiar with PAT, what is that?

curlew Mon 29-Jul-13 18:43:06

I await my flaming- but if you are getting no pleasure from this dog, and if the dog can have no freedom because it is dog aggressive, and if you have spent a year trying to put it right, and if it has seriously hurt another dog, then it should be PTS.

Hi OP, do you mean BAT?

TheTempest Mon 29-Jul-13 19:28:40

Sorry that should have been BAT. Curlew that's what my DP, DParents, DPIL etc have said. I don't want to though I love her and she finally has a nice life with me hmm

Thank you, it's nice to be able to offload.

TheTempest Mon 29-Jul-13 19:31:52

Sorry ClaimedByMe, I couldn't see what your post said as on my phone.

Insurance doesn't cover it, I checked hmm I'm going to have to try another behaviourist. It feels so hopeless though, I have been in tears ever since. The other dog didn't even fight back hmmhmmhmm

TheTempest Mon 29-Jul-13 19:34:19

Oh and I should add I get a lot of pleasure from her at home. Not so much out I agree.

She knocked DD ( nearly 4) over while she was going for the dog, this has translated to everyone as she was being aggressive to her confused

ClaimedByMe Mon 29-Jul-13 19:48:02

It doesn't sound like she was being aggressive to your dd, I can imagine my dog knocking over anything or anyone that is in her way of getting to where she wants to go.

I also get lots of pleasure from my dog in house but going out can be a bit of a nightmare.

My utmost sympathies. My dog has never actually attacked another dog <touch wood>, but is dog aggressive. He will jump, lunge, snarl and make some horrendous, murderous noises. I understand the stress, strain and anxiety managing such a dog involves. Now, I'm far from an expert, but someone on this very board once gave me some great advice: When it's all too much, take a day off. No walks that day. Throw a ball, do some training, whatever. But stay at home and give yourself and your dog a break. Then think of a new way of tackling the problem. It might be that your dog is never going to be trustworthy around other dogs. In which case, you can try a different harness/muzzle combo, you can only walk her early and late, or you can try another behaviourist who specialises in socialising dogs with issues. You must feel rotten right now, understandably, so take a step back and reassess in a few days.

Floralnomad Mon 29-Jul-13 20:48:58

I have a Patterdale x rescue and he doesn't like other dogs but fortunately on the whole just ignores them .obviously the first thing is to make sure your dog is secure on a harness ,we use a Doxlock one and its the only one that I don't feel my boy can get out of ( we've tried loads) . Have you thought of walking in a canny collar , they are much more secure than most of the other types of headcollar and give loads of control . It may be worth you looking at the Patterdale rescue site as they have lots of good advice . I'm quite lucky with mine as he has a good recall and is in general an absolute sweety .

Floralnomad Mon 29-Jul-13 20:52:28

Forgot to say my boys weakness is cats and he would knock a herd of cows over if he thought he was going to get at one so I don't think knocking your daughter over is an issue ( apart from for your daughter ) . You are very brave to have taken on a Patterdale they are far from easy ,especially when you get them second hand .

TheTempest Mon 29-Jul-13 21:54:22

Thanks Chickens, I am having tomorrow off. I have sorted it out with the other owner and they were very kind so I am slightly less upset.

Flora, thanks very much. I had a look on the website it was like reading about my girl. I'll up the training at home we do quite a lot already but I did find she is calmer out when I have knackered her mentally.

I'm willing to give anything a go. She has Baskerville muzzle and a properly fitted harness and anti shock training lead etc. I honestly try so hard with her.

Thanks for being so kind, it's so hard to balance my love for her and lack of progress to thinking about whether I can keep her and other dogs safe hmm

I'm not worried about her and DD, they are always supervised and she has never even slightly responded to her aggressively. Other than the occasional growl if someone leans over her or DD as she wants to protect her.

Floralnomad Mon 29-Jul-13 22:24:31

At least the it doesn't seem like the other owner is going to report you . Have you not got third party insurance which would cover the bill ? If not you really should get some just in case she causes an accident and someone sues you .

curlew Mon 29-Jul-13 23:22:39

You must feel absolutely awful. But it's no life for you, the dog or your dd. Honestly. You will never be able to relax and trust her with other dogs. Do you really want this for another 6/7 years? When you could have a dog that your dd could play with in the park, that you could relax and enjoy?

Floralnomad Mon 29-Jul-13 23:38:58

I'm sorry curlew but you don't get rid of pets just because they have the odd issue you live with them ,because they are part of your family and deal with them as best you can . This dog is not aggressive with people so the OP and her daughter are in no danger ( from info given) . Lots of people have dogs that have to stay on lead for a variety of reasons its not a reason to get rid of them . I feel very sorry for any animal you have ,god help them if they are less than perfect .

BAT is a proven technique that helps reactive dogs, when used appropriately. Progress is possible. Our reactive dog has improved so much I will be taking him to training classes in the autumn, something I'd have thought impossible this time last year.

OP, i think it's worth looking at a number of issues. Firstly, as a matter of urgency, rethink the fitting of your harness and muzzle - it shouldn't be possible for your dog to get out of both while you are out and about. Secondly, ahve a look on the APDT website for a positive behaviourist near you who can help you through this, and work on a training programme for you both. Thirdly, take the pressure off yourself and find a safe off lead play area for regular use. Many of us greyhound owners use them - your local greyhound charity might be able to advise, dog training club, or even an indoor riding school. We found that having this option, even once a fortnight, really helped us - we could simply enjoy watching the hounds zoom about without worrying about passing cats, squirrels etc. - Having that time when you don't have to worry etc. is enormously helpful and keeps your spirits up.

Good luck and best wishes - so pleased you are wanting to do the right thing by this dog. smile

curlew Mon 29-Jul-13 23:44:47

The OP has spent a year trying to fix this problem, and the dog has badly hurt somebody else's pet. She will never be able to relax and be happy with this dog, and he may hurt other dogs in the future. This is not just a little blip, it's a serious problem which will make everyone unhappy.

Floralnomad Mon 29-Jul-13 23:57:22

The OP has said that she loves the dog and it gives her a lot of pleasure .No one is saying its not serious but its not something that most people would consider getting rid of their pet over , most people would do what the OP is doing and get advice on how to move forward safely .

curlew Tue 30-Jul-13 00:01:19

Anybody who wouldn't consider getting rid of this dog as one possible option would be a fool. How can an owner ever be absolutely sure that something like what happened today would never happen again?

Viviennemary Tue 30-Jul-13 00:05:07

The OP has given this her best efforts and the dog is causing a lot of stress and upset. I don't think she should feel ridden with guilt if she decides she can no longer cope with a dog and try and find a new owner. It does sound an agressive dog that has attacked another dog. What if this keeps happening.

Sadly, Curlew, nobody can guarantee that any dog will behave perfectly during its entire lifetime, no matter how well trained.

Injury, illness and different situations can all make dogs react in ways that are not typical.

To help the OP, which is the reason for posting, a number of us have come up with constructive, positive, tested approaches that will allow the OP to maintain her relationship with her dog without either killing it or dumping it on someone else.

curlew Tue 30-Jul-13 07:00:16

"Sadly, Curlew, nobody can guarantee that any dog will behave perfectly during its entire lifetime, no matter how well trained.

Injury, illness and different situations can all make dogs react in ways that are not typical.

To help the OP, which is the reason for posting, a number of us have come up with constructive, positive, tested approaches that will allow the OP to maintain her relationship with her dog without either killing it or dumping it on someone else."

We can't guarantee that any dog will behave perfectly, no. But the OP can pretty much guarantee that if this dog ever gets off his lead,, he will hurt another dog. Rather different.

And I don't think anyone has suggested anything that the OP has not tried over the past year. The OP needs to be reassured that sometimes it's all right to be defeated by an intractable problem. Incredibly sad, but true.

MrsWolowitz Tue 30-Jul-13 07:11:38

I do see what your saying Curlew and although its a very unpopular train of thought I have to say that I agree to a certain extent.

OP I hope you get this sorted, you sound like a really caring and dedicated owner.

TheTempest Tue 30-Jul-13 08:11:37

Thank you everyone. It has givens some good for thought.

It is an option I have considered, but I can't put her down/ shift the problem. She's my little girl and it was my fault yesterday happened.

Thanks Scuttle, I have been doing Bat to the letter with her, and she has been so much better until yesterday confused

I have had a look on t'internet but there isn't anything like your field around here sad thanks for all your input, felt that I might have had a flaming. I 'm feeling a bit delicate and so sad for my lovely girl. Life could be so much nicer for her hmm

Tempest, quite a lot of secure "play" areas aren't advertised, or only via networks, IYSWIM. Try your closest greyhound charity - they will almost certainly either have one themselves or know of one.

Hope you are feeling better this morning. smile

Floralnomad Tue 30-Jul-13 09:15:15

This is the quote that rules my Patterdale owning life ,it comes from the Patterdale rescue uk website
'Terriers will be terriers and need management as much as training. Their safety is in your hands. We naturally take the blame and never place it on the terrier.'
I'm not flaming the OP for letting her dog escape her harness and muzzle but it ultimately was an accident that shouldn't have happened .Well done OP for wanting to deal with your dog rather than just PTS or pass the problem on . If this attitude makes me a 'fool' then I'm happy with that .

mrspink27 Tue 30-Jul-13 09:24:54

I would recommend a harness but also a collar and lead clipped to both - double insurance... Also lots of "mental" exercise - like kongs and bustacube etc... it is really hard to have a dog aggressive dog. Been there. It can get better, but not without the odd slipup and heartache. Can you find somewhere really quiet to walk her and then walk on a really long line?

curlew Tue 30-Jul-13 09:51:36

"I'm not flaming the OP for letting her dog escape her harness and muzzle but it ultimately was an accident that shouldn't have happened"

No accident should happen- that's why they are called "accidents! And in this case, a) the OP will always be on egg shells in case it happens again, and b) the consequences of an accident could be disastrous. It's horrible and sad, but there are loads of lovely dogs out there who will enhance the OP's life, not fill it with anxiety and guilt.

curlew Tue 30-Jul-13 09:53:42

For example, the OP's dd will never have the delight of helping to walk the family dog, of throwing a ball for it, she's already witnessed a very distressing scene yesterday.....why risk it?

Curlew, you make valid points. Thing is, objectively you're right. But when it's your dog, that you love, it's not that simple. It really isn't. You try and find a way to cope, because you don't want your dog to end up PTS. My dog causes me stress, and believe me when I've had a bad day I've thought about calling a spaniel rescue, but I haven't. Because he's mine, and I took him on for life. Thankfully, he's never actually hurt another dog, and I doubt he actually would. He's fearful and a coward as soon as the other dog raises a lip <eye roll>

D0oinMeCleanin Tue 30-Jul-13 10:04:33

TheTempest, you've got to be cheeky, if you spot an empty but secure field find out who owns it, give them a ring and ask if you can use it in exchange for a small fee.

A local factory lets us use wasteland belonging to them. Lots of people use this land but because we asked permission and explained our problem (one of my Dad's dogs is dog aggressive with dogs he doesn't know) the security guard will not let anyone else on until we've left. He just tells them "Sorry, but the land is being used for training today" Neglecting to mention it is us, training our dogs grin

A local Farm would also let me use a spare field he had when I was training Devil Dog recall and the rugby club let me use their training pitch when they weren't as long as I cleaned up after myself. They still let me use their field now if we get Greyhounds in who have no recall.

If the muzzle came off it doesn't fit well enough, get down to PAH and try a few different ones on. The one my dog has when he needs one has straps around his head, but also attaches to his collar.

curlew Tue 30-Jul-13 11:14:32

I do know that, chickens. I think that's why I want to OP to know that she does have other choices. I know that most people on here will be outraged at the very thought that somebody could find a dog too much for them - i don't, i think it's a perfectly reasonable and understandable thing to feel.It's also incredibly important to remember that being PTS is very far from the worst thing that could happen to a dog.

Floralnomad Tue 30-Jul-13 13:12:46

I think we will have to agree to having a different approach to animals curlew , you obviously feel they are disposable if they don't fit perfectly into your life and family ,I don't ,to me they are valued members of the family despite what issues they may have . I doubt any of the animals I've ever owned would have had much life expectancy in your house as few have been perfect .

1MitchellMum Tue 30-Jul-13 13:51:34

Just a quick note to say I had a fear aggressive dog whom I couldn't trust when we were out - but I walked her alone and managed her. At home she was the soppiest, loveliest dog you could wish for. Have to say I felt safe when I was out with her. I got in the way of her trying to get to another dog on one occasion and she drew blood from me. But for all the problems I loved her dearly and still miss her (she died of natural causes).

topbannana Tue 30-Jul-13 14:24:10

FWIW I do think curlew has a point, albeit not a popular one.
The OP clearly has a problem and has asked for advice which she has been given. It's now up to her to sift through it and decide what she should use and what she should discard. She seems to genuinely have her dogs best interests at heart and is willing to put in the necessary work which is fantastic.
However the fact remains that the dog is not a pleasure to own out of the house (and I may be old fashioned but I have great issue with blind trust that a dog aggressive dog is safe with humans, particularly children, however well supervised)
The incident with the other dog has happened and fortunately the other owners were decent and reasonable about it, despite the fact that their dog needed £400 worth of treatment- I'm not sure i could be so understanding and the OP is fortunate that things did not escalate rapidly from there.
There have been some great suggestions on here which may alleviate the problem somewhat but, if it were me, would never allow me to trust the dog 100%. And I'm not sure I would want my DCs witnessing scenes like that.
So yes Curlew does have a point. It would be unfair to move the dog on again, particularly when rescues are full to bursting with dogs with no aggression issues and if the situation cannot be safely managed then PTS is an option. Better to choose to do it yourself than be forced into having the dog "destroyed" because of another incident.
Now is not the time to be making that decision but it is unrealistic to pretend that it is not an option.
Good luck OP smile

curlew Tue 30-Jul-13 14:39:06

"I think we will have to agree to having a different approach to animals curlew , you obviously feel they are disposable if they don't fit perfectly into your life and family ,I don't ,to me they are valued members of the family despite what issues they may have . I doubt any of the animals I've ever owned would have had much life expectancy in your house as few have been perfect ."

That is such a stupid post, and means that you have not read what I said at all. I take deep offence at the suggestion that I think animals are disposable, and I would like you to read what I have actually said, and take it back.

Floralnomad Tue 30-Jul-13 18:11:08

I have read what you said ,that's my opinion of you from what you have said ie the daughter will never have the delight of walking the family dog or throwing a ball for it ,there are loads of lovely dogs that will enhance your life . We don't know each other ,we don't need to agree ,you have your opinion of me ( I'm a fool ) ,I have my opinion of you ( we are very different ) end of .

curlew Tue 30-Jul-13 18:14:13

And the bit about there always be the possibility that this dog will seriously hurt someone else's pet? That she will always be on eggshells in case of another accident?

Talk about cherry picking!!!!!

curlew Tue 30-Jul-13 18:15:10

I have said nothing that you could interpret as mentioning that animals are disposable.

VivaLeBeaver Tue 30-Jul-13 18:23:58

Tempest, I feel for you. Not sure what to advise at all.

I have a fear aggressive dog who's aggressive to people, mainly dh, sometimes me, other family members, neighbours, etc. The list of people he's bitten is long, thankfully it does seem to be inhibited bites so they're painful but leave a bruise or maybe very small puncture rather than a bad injury. He's also a small dog which helps.

We're working hard to try and improve his behaviour and we do muzzle him if people he may go for come to the house, or if we're going to be out round people. But it's stressful.

I know that if we got to the point where we couldn't cope with him I would have to have him pts. It wouldn't be fair to him to be sent to a rescue. Ultimately a rescue would end up having him pts and I'd rather I was holding him while it happened rather than him having the stress of been kennelled for a few weeks and then a stranger taking him to the vets.

I hope you manage to find some way of dealing with his behaviour, it's so hard. My mad mutt hates his baskerville muzzle and tries like mad to get it off but touch wood since I really tightened all the straps the other week he's been unable to get it off.

Floralnomad Tue 30-Jul-13 18:24:53

I haven't cherry picked ,I've used examples and as I said that's my opinion from what you've said if you think its wrong then that's fine but I am entitled to my opinion .Just like you are entitled to yours .FWIW I don't think there should ever be a case of the dog attacking anther dog because I'm sure the OP will ensure that it won't be in the position to again .

curlew Tue 30-Jul-13 19:20:43

You picked the trivial examples, rather than the serious ones. To try to support your outrageous and offensive insult. Which I am still waiting for you to retract.

And the point about accidents is that nobody intends them to happen. But they do. That's what makes them accidents,

topbannana Tue 30-Jul-13 19:30:35

I'm sure the OP would not willingly choose to have her dog PTS any more than another person would. It would be easier for her to give her to a rescue or simply set her loose somewhere rather than take the responsible and infinitely less distressing line.
However (having had 2 situations fairly similar to the OP and choosing a different course of action both times) I sympathise with the OP greatly and think she should be allowed to make her decision without squabbling on her thread about the advisability of any course of action.
Ultimately if she cannot make her situation work then PTS may well be the best option and none of this will be making her feel any better surely?

topbannana Tue 30-Jul-13 19:31:16

more distressing hmm

Floralnomad Tue 30-Jul-13 20:00:34

topbannana ,I'm sure you are right and I would hope that the OP would realise that none of my comments have been aimed at her , I will say no more on the subject .

girliefriend Tue 30-Jul-13 20:11:41

I'm sorry I'm with the pts people, I can't understand why anyone would keep a dog that is aggressive. An aggressive dog is so dangerous, if it had been my dog that op dog had attacked I would be furious and expect you to put the animal out of its misery.

An aggressive dog imo is an unhappy dog.

How you can have a dog that bites around a 4yo frankly baffles me.

mrslaughan Tue 30-Jul-13 22:10:15

Firstly - I would hate to be in your situation, but I have thought about your thread all day. While I respect the amount of work that you have put in and are prepared to put in, but I turned it around and thought about how would I feel if it was my dog that was attacked. I have seen a number of dogs who have come to classes or who I have meet out walking who are not allowed off lead because they are petrified of other dogs, because they have been attacked.

I would try to be reasonable if my dog was attacked, however I would probably loose all tolerance if I discovered that the dog that attacked my dog, had attacked another. And what if it attacks another dog, but it's owner gets in the way?

Can you guarantee it won't happen again? Yes all dogs are unpredictable, but yours has known issues, it is like walking around with a loaded gun in your pocket. I know I will get flamed and this is really unpopular opinion on this forum, but it is, sadly how I feel.
If you lived on a farm, where it could get it's exercise without mixing with the general public - then it would be completely up to you, but i presume you don't. hmm

TheTempest Tue 30-Jul-13 22:44:27

Thank you for the replies. I have contacted my vet today and she is going in tomorrow for a check up and some advice.

I emailed the rescue for advice and was told that they are busy saving dogs from death row and basically why am I bothering them. Marvellous.

I have no idea what to do frankly. She is very lovely and I love her to bits. I'm not concerned that she would hurt DD as she hasn't ever shown any aggression to humans, but obviously that doesn't mean she never would.

I want to carry on training and hoping that she will improve, everyone including DP is saying that its too much of a risk. I'm kind of glad in a way that people can't agree on this thread, it's been my internal monologue! I agree it was my fault and just an unfortunate series of events that led to the poor dog being bitten.

The other dog is home now, I text her this morning and he will be fine. They were very kind and understanding, and it so easier could have been worse hmm

merrymouse Tue 30-Jul-13 23:51:09

Agree with advice to attach lead to harness and collar.

IMO with any animal part of being a responsible and caring owner is having the vision to see it to the end.
Whether that end means deal with the animals issues- health, behaviour, whatever, and adapting.
Or taking the decision to end the animals life for the safety/wellbeing of everyone.
And WRT rehoming?
Well, Rescues are just falling over themselves to rehome a dog with aggression issues, aren't they? hmm

Lifewassupposedtobebetter Wed 31-Jul-13 10:02:42

I'm no expert but as another poster said there are far worse things that can happen to a dog than being PTS.

topbannana Wed 31-Jul-13 13:44:31

To give a little context, as I said I have been in a fairly similar situation twice with two different outcomes.
The first was when we took in an old greyhound at about 10 years old. He was of dubious background ad had been used by gypsies as a coursing dog- he would cheerfully have killed anything small that crossed his path and he was not jesting when he tried.
We took him after a very long spell in kennels and an appalling life prior to that. We had a stable door on our utility room where the dogs lived (strangely he wasvdevoted to my dogs) and he never came out without a muzzle on. Walked on lead apart from occasional access to very secure field. His recall was excellent (when not in hot pursuit!) and he worshipped the very ground on which I stood. Poor eyesight also helped my cause!
Given his background and age, his life with me was a complete joy compared to his previous incarnation. I did not have DS at the time and when I did have him, never walked the two together as I could not fully concentrate on both at once.

Dog no.2 was a lurcher who we had from 8 weeks. At a couple of years old he got in with some sheep and chased them, apparently for the joy of running and with no malicious intent. On his return we ha words and he was always kept under very close control anywhere we may stumble across stock.
Fast forward some 5 years and he one day, completely out of the blue forced his way through a bramble hedge into a field of sheep. By the time I got round he had mauled a couple and had one pinned in a corner while he tried to tear her throat. He was PTS the next day sad
I know that some people will be of the opinion that I could have done more for him but he was essentially a young dog who loved to run, a life on lead would have been intolerable for him. We live in a rural area with lots of stock about. He would have to have stopped agility as he would have needed to be loose and every shred of trust I held in him was gone. His insurance paid the farmers vets bills but they revoked his 3rdparty cover afterwards.
I simply could not risk a repeat performance and could not countenance a life muzzled and on lead for him- he would not have understood why his freedom had been so dramatically curtailed and would have been miserable.

My point is that for some dogs a life of severely curtailed freedom is OK, for others you need to question for who you are doing it for. Having a fit and healthy dog PTS is not something to be taken lightly and was one of the most awful experiences of my life but ultimately I know was the safest thing to have done.

TotallyBursar Wed 31-Jul-13 21:31:47

This is a difficult decision the answer to which, I really do think, would be different for every one of us. I certainly think there is more information needed than is provided to provide an answer that will ultimately be the right one for your dog, your family and you.

I would really recommend looking for a better behaviourist - she said she wasn't aggressive? Quite honestly I can't judge what she means from that - your comment was so brief it comes across to me that she really didn't aid you by giving more qualified answers or actually more of an answer of where to go now. It reads as if she was a little out of her depth or uninterested - although that is purely supposition from such a brief line.

What I feel I would need to consider is the dog's chances - after a consult with a well qualified and experienced behaviourist the discussion needs to be had on what they feel can be offered. I suspect it would be condensed down to three options 1) Yes, doable 2) give me an x time trial to assess progress with significant behavioural support before my decison 3) No progress to be made.
Then armed with that information you consider what you can do - are you able, as a family as well as the main carer/walker/trainer, to offer the time, money and resources necessary to make that progress?

What is in the dog's best interest? I feel that some part of this will be informed by the consult. It's only that which will provide the framework you are working within and so give a guide as to how much she might have to endure in terms of management and how much you feel she can deal with. Also what her issues are defines so much - dog aggressive is actually quite an umbrella term.
If she is healthy it will be a harder decision to make if the prognosis is not positive but that is the only way I can imagine I would feel I had done enough to meet the responsibilities I have to my dogs and also to my family.

I know it seems a cop out to say but I can't see a way to meet in the middle with your husband than to ask for him to support your need to do right by her (behaviourist and keeping her in her home) and his need to have his concerns and wishes taken on board (pts or re-homing which isn't really an option) on the back of honest assessment of the situation by someone that you trust will weigh up the situation with the benefit of skill and experience. It seems there needs to be someone to tip the balance, who is able to assess what you can't online where we will be offering the same conficted advice that you are dealing with already.

or that is all unhelpful bollox.

mistlethrush Wed 31-Jul-13 21:35:25

I've seen these harnesses recommended: here as being difficult for lurchers to get out of - and some of them are really good at getting out of harnesses!

Perhaps something like that might give you confidence that she can't get away so you have more control?

mistlethrush Wed 31-Jul-13 21:36:24

Oh - yes, and if you're remotely north I have heard of a behaviourist that's used to terriorists who might be ideal....

TotallyBursar Wed 31-Jul-13 21:44:15

Terrorists?! Hardcore! grin

mistlethrush Wed 31-Jul-13 21:50:28

grin that's what quite a few people that I know call them!

mistlethrush Wed 31-Jul-13 21:51:02

Remember the extra i though - terriorists...

TotallyBursar Wed 31-Jul-13 21:56:11

Whoops, sorry!

Made me chuckle so much I couldn't read or spell...very little change to the rest of the time really hmm grin

curlew Wed 31-Jul-13 22:02:23

Sorry- sense of humour failure here. A "terrierist" is a lovely, bouncy , into to everything, full of beans, slipper eating, poo rolling, bulb digging handful.

The dog in the OP actually attacked another dog and caused it significant injury and pain. And can't be trusted not to do the same if it ever gets free again. Rather different.

TotallyBursar said it all for me <crush grows>

mistlethrush Wed 31-Jul-13 22:15:16

Curlew - my parents had a collie/ terrier cross - who wanted to be in the middle of any dust-up even if was nothing to do with her whatsoever. She would have caused significant harm if we had lost control and let her.

I know lots of people who have terriers who have to be very careful with them.

Lots of terriers are easily capable of doing significant harm.

The Op is clearly trying to do her best to stop her dog following its instincts.

TheTempest Wed 31-Jul-13 22:56:30

Thanks for your really informative post TotallyBursar, that is pretty much all she said, other than unsocialised and over enthusiastic to greet.

I thought that fitted her quite well as I have done a lot of research and up until ParkGate her behaviour signs seemed to support that. She has been out with a dog walker once a week for that year with other dogs and other than a couple of warning growls has been fine confused

(She has an aggressive SBT and a lot of experience with dogs herself) I've been in training walks with her And no aggressive signs at all.

I do get what everyone means about her being a risk, and I know that if it came down to it I'd have to put her yo sleep. Looking at her now with her head on my leg loving me, it seems like the hardest thing in the world. hmm

I should have said that I do have 2 other dogs as well, a Chiuahaua (that I can't spell!) and a small mongrel. She is absolutely fine with them and always has been.

I have been looking into fields etc, but no luck yet. The vets have given me the details for another behaviourist to try too. I'm East Sussex so not even slightly north! But thank you lots.

TheTempest Wed 31-Jul-13 23:04:11

Oh I also meant to say that I double leaded her today. New muzzle bought at PAH (not fun trying to fit her one but thankfully very quiet in there) , light lead attached to collar and normal lead in her harness.

I have been looking at harnesses and will be either buying the one linked to ( sorry can't scroll up) or a DogLox one, depending on what the new behaviourist says when I see her.

She is always walked separately from the other two, so has my full attention. Felt a bit like I was trying to contain Hannibal Lector today though!

TheTempest Wed 31-Jul-13 23:07:02

I also meant to say, thank you everyone for sharing your experiences with me, it helps to know that I'm not the only one. Feels like it when we're out walking though and people look at us like we're aliens grin

mrspink27 Thu 01-Aug-13 21:37:39

Just a thought... would she actually be better walking on lead with your small mongrel? May be dog aggressive due to lack of confidence when out? Extra doggie companion might be enough to help? I am East/West Sussex borders and happy to meet up for a dog walk if you want to try ...

TotallyBursar Sat 03-Aug-13 16:07:49

Tempest - how are things going?

Chickenshavenoeyebrows - blush I likes you too...do you want to come and do something norty behind the bike sheds? grin.

EasyToEatTiger Sat 03-Aug-13 19:37:57

So sorry to hear about your experience, Topbananna. I think sometimes we are left with such little choice. And credit to you, TheTempest for working so hard. We met a fantastic trainer up in Norfolk. She's called Sarah Jenkins and she's based in North Norfolk. She works mostly with sheepdogs. She may be able to reccomend someone more local to you or someone who works with terriers. My mum had terrierists. They were murderers. The hunt had to be called out to extract them from a hole. One of them took on a badger and came out alive but with half her face missing. They are not sweet cuddly dogs! They have a job to do.

Floralnomad Sat 03-Aug-13 22:46:56

easy my Patterdale is sweet and cuddly ,he only murders part time !

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