Abusive Jogger

(55 Posts)
FragileTitanium Wed 24-Jul-13 07:58:16

Just got back from taking my puppy for an early morning walk. We met a very nasty male jogger who started abusing me because my tiny puppy started to jump up on him while he was jogging. I agree that this is unacceptable behaviour for my puppy - who is still learning. It didn't help that he was prancing about the place as though he was playing with her.

I'm a really responsible dog owner and I work really hard at it. I follow Gwen Bailey's perfect puppy advice (which is hard work), etc, etc.

However, so many people (joggers included) stop and pet the puppy and play with it that it undoes my training to ignore joggers. So it makes it so difficult when you get the odd jogger who really reacts badly.
We were walking in the country at the crack of dawn (literally), which is the only place my puppy is off lead.

It also didn't help that at 6 months old, her recall has suddenly gone to pot and when I call her, she runs away. I'm told this is typical teenager behaviour but it didn't look good in front of the abusive jogger when I couldn't catch my doggy to put it on the lead.

No point to this post, just letting off steam really.

Oh....re teenage thing. Should I start walking her on the lead in the country while her recall is unreliable? What are other people doing? Not much in Gwen Bailey on the teenage thing.

MrsWolowitz Wed 24-Jul-13 08:20:44

What an idiot. (I'll probably get flamed for this but I can't help thinking that people who don't like dogs are weird).

Try not to dwell on it.

Have you thought about using a long line whilst training recall? Also positive interrupters might be useful if you find her getting distracted by things around her and loosing interest in you.

TunipTheVegedude Wed 24-Jul-13 08:26:09

biscuit for both of you.

The jogger has a right to go jogging without someone else's dog jumping up on him.
'People who don't like dogs are weird' - prejudiced much?

AllDirections Wed 24-Jul-13 08:28:06

I agree Tunip

Buttercup4 Wed 24-Jul-13 08:33:15

Fragile, probably wasn't the best thing. When my dog was a puppy I kept her on a lead ( a really long extendable one thoughsmile) for walks where I thought we might bump into people.

The guy could have been nicer about it, but some people just don't like dogs.

I have a shih tzu and when she was about 4 months old (and tiny!) I had a grown man jump on someone's garden wall screaming to "get her away from him" even though she was 6ft away from him and was on her lead. Some people have very strong reactions. It does seen bizarre to us, because we like dogs but there are people who don't... shock

thegriffon Wed 24-Jul-13 08:35:50

You need to keep going to places where there are loads of joggers so pup can learn to ignore them. Keep on lead if you can't see far enough ahead to give you time to get dog back to you. Every time a jogger appears say "heel" and get dog in position looking at you, use toy/treat to keep her fixated on you, then when jogger is well past praise and treat. Let off lead if no one else around but try to keep one step ahead and spot joggers before dog does.

<sucks teeth> I think you have to suck it up, tbh. Your dog shouldn't be approaching people who don't want to be approached. I sympathise, because my older dog has never done this (just not in his nature) where as my puppy makes a bee line for anyone in view clearly expecting a fuss or biscuits. He still recalls atm, but that will change shortly <has awful flashback to Jas's adolescence>. If in doubt, get the lead on, and if the little blighter won't come back, run like buggery in the other direction making noises like a CBBC presenter. You'll look like a total prat, but the puppy will probably be intrigued enough to follow you. And apologise for any cock ups, and just accept any ranting. Some people really, really don't like dogs.

Whoknowswhocares Wed 24-Jul-13 08:50:12

For her own safety, if her recall has gone to pot, then she should not be off lead!
Get a long line and retrain the recall whilst maintaining some control over the situation.

Aquamildred Wed 24-Jul-13 08:51:12

My pup did this once at a younger age and I was mortified so he was kept on the lead until I had sorted recall out.

My dd was jumped up on the other day in her confirmation dress and it was annoying.

VivaLeBeaver Wed 24-Jul-13 08:58:02

Mmm, if my dog did this I'd kind of expect to get shouted at.

As a cyclist if a dog does it I will shout, not loads of abuse, but I have shouted at people to get their bloody dog under control, etc. and you can't say I don't like dogs because I do.

I used to jog and dogs were very annoying when they did this, remember this could be the fifth dog that morning that's done it. He may also have had a bad experience. Dh runs and says any dog that does this to him gets a hard kick so be grateful it wasn't my dh.

Buttercup4 Wed 24-Jul-13 09:05:14

Viva... I think your DH's reaction is very extreme. A hard kick?! For goodness sakes, I hope he realises that is illegal. Although, if someone kicked my dog, I can guarantee my response would not be within the law.

Aquamildred Wed 24-Jul-13 09:10:18

I agree with tunip.

Why is someone weird because they don't like someone elses out of control animal jumping all over them hmm

and I say that as someone who loves dogs.

Chopstheduck Wed 24-Jul-13 09:11:32

Hmmm I go running 3-4 times a week. I have had quite a lot of dogs run after me, some friendly, some not. When you are trying to run, you don't necessarily want to stop and pet or fend off dogs. I like dogs, but I don't appreciate having to stop midrun when owners can't control their dogs. I think you should have your dog on a lead until you've trained her to stop running after people again, sorry!

I wouldn't have shouted at you, but I would have been irritated and asked you to get your dog. Your dog might also get kicked, I worry that I am going to kick a dog one of these days indadvertedly, when they run round and round my feet and I am running.

' I can't help thinking that people who don't like dogs are weird'
- I think people who don't accept that not everyone loves being jumped over by their pets are weird.

MrsWolowitz Wed 24-Jul-13 09:15:07

I've been jumped up at by dogs whilst running and don't become abusive.

DH was bitten recently whilst out running and he didn't become abusive.

How is it not wierd to become abusive at someone for their "tiny puppy" jumping up at them. Just carry on running ffs.

giddywithglee Wed 24-Jul-13 09:16:04

I think the jogger was over-reacting a bit! I regularly run along the canal early morning and early evening and come across dogs every time. Sometimes they jump up, sometimes they follow me, sometimes they ignore me.

It is annoying when they jump up (especially if they are big) but I wouldn't say it warrants shouting and certainly not a kick. But then I'm not afraid of dogs, and I can imagine that if you are it could be quite upsetting if a dog jumps up or follows you.

giddywithglee Wed 24-Jul-13 09:17:36

Actually, I often give the dog a little pat or stroke if they come to see me, but then I do like dogs.

MrsWolowitz Wed 24-Jul-13 09:17:39

Dh runs and says any dog that does this to him gets a hard kick so be grateful it wasn't my dh.

If your DH have my puppy a "hard kick" I'd lose the plot. My DH is the most laid back like you can imagine but if he saw someone give our puppy a "hard kick" he'd bloody be raging too.

Yes the dog shouldn't jump up but it's a puppy in training. What a horrible thing to do.

giddywithglee Wed 24-Jul-13 09:18:57

Viva if I saw your DH kicking a dog I would probably kick him. Or call the RSPCA and get him prosecuted.

MrsWolowitz Wed 24-Jul-13 09:19:47

Why is someone weird because they don't like someone elses out of control animal jumping all over them

They aren't weird for not liking being jumped up at but they are weird for becoming abusive. Very weird IMO.

fishie Wed 24-Jul-13 09:19:54

I think small dogs often get away with things that the owners of big dogs would be arrested for. A six month puppy shouldn't be jumping up at people. Also it is quite hard to stop dead or dodge a dog when you are running, one can have quite a bit of momentum going and don't want to trip over dog.

TunipTheVegedude Wed 24-Jul-13 09:21:12

I doubt a prosecution would get very far when it is basically someone fending off a dog that jumps up on him, even if the amount of force used was totally disproportionate.

VivaLeBeaver Wed 24-Jul-13 09:23:49

Believe me I have told him he shouldn't kick dogs as for no other reason it could make them more likely to bite him!

He says its defence and he's protecting himself as he has no idea if the dog's going to bite him or not.

I think dog owners have to accept that there are people who are so scared of dogs that they may react like this. Not because they're nasty dog hating bastards but that they would do it out of fear.

RussiansOnTheSpree Wed 24-Jul-13 09:24:53

Fragile If your dog won't come when you call it keep it on the bloody lead. If your dog attacks runners keep it on the bloody lead. I ws badly injured by a dog that jumped up at me when I was running - I fell, hit my head on a rock, broke my glasses and now can no longer run outside because I'm too nervous. All because of a stupid idiot dog owner, like you, who let their dog off the lead in a running area when their dog isn't properly trained.

JaxTellerIsAllMine Wed 24-Jul-13 09:25:01

you need to get a long line and enforce recall. I love dogs, but if one came bounding up at me I wouldnt be amused either.

Keep going to places where there are lots of distractions, people, runners, joggers, cyclists etc and tell everyone NOT to pet your dog, it is in training.

To kick a dog deliberately isnt good, but if someone is running/jogging it may inadvertently get kicked.

VivaLeBeaver Wed 24-Jul-13 09:25:30

Giddy, like Turnips said the RSPCA or the police wouldn't be interested as he would perfectly legally be able to say self defence. On the other hand if you kicked dh you might get prosecuted.....dunno guess you could say you were fefending your dog. smile

To be honest I doubt you'd catch him, he's very fast.

Chopstheduck Wed 24-Jul-13 09:26:46

mm, cycling I see them too. Had one the other day chasing us all, not even a puppy and clearly no recall whatsoever. I really don't understand why owners don't train their dogs properly for their own safety at least! A dog vs a bike isn't going to come off too well!

giddywithglee Wed 24-Jul-13 09:28:50

I don't have a dog, I'm just not a big fan of animal abuse grin

I do appreciate that people are scared of dogs and may give a little kick to push them away, but I think a hard kick is disproportionate.

Re: calling the RSPCA, I'd have to follow him home and then I might get done for stalking wink.

VivaLeBeaver Wed 24-Jul-13 09:28:54

I was brought off my bike a couple of weeks ago by an off the lead dog who charged right infront of my bike on a shared use path. Stupid dog owners decided to go on the opposite side of the path from the dog so I had to go between them and at the last minute the dog ran to them.

They muttered sorry and sauntered off and I did shout at them. Not nasty abuse but I told them that they should be bloody sorry. As I sat there with blood running down my arm and leg and quite a bit of damage to the bike.

They turned round and gave me a load of abuse for not accepting their apology. hmm

FragileTitanium Wed 24-Jul-13 09:30:45

I agree that it is not acceptable for a puppy to jump up on someone but it is difficult as people who stop and make a huge fuss of the puppy and encourage the puppy to jump up on them undo all one's hard work even though they are trying to be nice. It's one of the problems having a puppy that looks like a little teddy bear. I just know those same people would never do it to a staffy.

Many thanks for all the useful advice. I've just bought a long retractable lead online and will be using that and will keep training on recall and hope that it gets better. The dreaded adolescence seems to have arrived.

SaltySeaBird Wed 24-Jul-13 09:31:02

I was jumped on by a dog while running. No serious injury but broken skin and long scrape marks on my leg from its claws. Owner said it just gets excitable when it sees runners. I was not impressed and I'm nervous around dogs anyway, I was attacked when I was younger by a nasty collie. My sister was also bitten by a dog. I have to say I'm not that keen on them, other than on a case by case basis (I'm the only non-dog owner in the family).

If there are other people around and your dog is prone to jump up, keep it on the lead. I do not want to be jumped on. I will be rude.

MrsWolowitz Wed 24-Jul-13 09:32:29

Viva I think your DH should be more concerned about his safety from dog owners who might give him a hiding for kicking their dog than the actual dog.

Believe me, I'd catch the aggressive fucker. I'm very fast too.

RussiansOnTheSpree Wed 24-Jul-13 09:34:41

viva I know there are some decent dog owners. But some dog owners are among the rudest most entitled and just plain ignorant people I have ever had the misfortune to encounter. sad the owner of the dog that caused my accident laughed. As I lay there bleeding in many different places including my head and face. And told me her dog was just playing. And walked off.

MrsWolowitz Wed 24-Jul-13 09:36:51

the owner of the dog that caused my accident laughed. As I lay there bleeding in many different places

shock sad

RussiansOnTheSpree Wed 24-Jul-13 09:38:09

Fragile you are much more likely to cause accidents with a retractable. I've seen one of those bring down a bike, messily. You need to train your dog or only take him off lead on grassy areas with no running/cycle paths. A runner running not on a path knows what he or she is potentially letting themselves in for, so that's not so bad. Retractables for dogs that won't come back are a terrible idea if you aren't actually trying to injure cyclists and runners - because when it comes to it I doubt you will choose to yank your dog back by the neck to stop it tripping a runner.

VivaLeBeaver Wed 24-Jul-13 09:40:04

Russians - I can believe it sadly.

MrsWolowitz, dh isn't an aggressive fucker at all. He's scared of dogs and out of fear there is a could chance he could act in a disproportionate manner. In his mind he is totally defending himself and he feels he needs to warn the dog off in this manner to do this. He's the most unaggressive person ever.

RussiansOnTheSpree Wed 24-Jul-13 09:41:29

mrswolowitz Yep. Apparently the dog was only playing and I should have 'stood my ground' instead of 'going over like a baby' (I'm pretty small and slight. The dog was pretty big. I do fall over a lot (dyspraxic) but I think anyone my size would have gone over if jumped on by that dog)

I really despise dog owners who play the 'only playing' card. Despise them.

MrsWolowitz Wed 24-Jul-13 09:42:22

Giving a "hard kick" is aggressive on the off chance that a dog might bite him.

I shouldn't have called him a fucker so sorry, that was uncalled for but that behaviour is unnecessary, scared or not scared a "hard kick" is a massive aggressive overreaction.

RussiansOnTheSpree Wed 24-Jul-13 09:42:47

Many people are terrified of dogs. Many dog owners are ignorant fuckers, to use your terminology mrswolowitz

MrsWolowitz Wed 24-Jul-13 09:43:25

Russians that's awful. What a horrible person sad

MrsWolowitz Wed 24-Jul-13 09:44:30

Yes many are ignorant tickets but a "hard kick" is just nasty unless a dog is actually attacking you in which case you can do what you like to protect yourself.

MrsWolowitz Wed 24-Jul-13 09:45:01

*tickets = fuckers hmm

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Chopstheduck Wed 24-Jul-13 09:53:23

my dh is terrified of dogs too. He wouldn't kick one, but he'd prob try to run faster to get away. Last sunday I came across a terrier who took offense to me running towards his owner, and so began growling and barking, and pushing his nose towards my feet. I stopped dead, dog content to back off, maintain position in between me and owner, growl and bark some more - warning me to keep my distance and I waited for the owner to come and fetch it.

Owner - Oh he won't hurt you, he is only trying to chase you!

Well, firstly I don't WANT your dog chasing me, and secondly it isn't, it is upset and if I had carried on, it would have got increasingly upset and possibly bitten me. DH being terrified, would have sped up, and probably got bitten.

If you love your dog, learn to understand it and control the bloody thing! It reminds me of a video I saw on facebook about dogs that suddenly 'turn' with no warning. Dogs DO generally warn, the owners just don't pick up on the signals.

Retractable leads are not the answer neither. dog needs to learn recall, and be on a short lead when the lead is needed. thegriffon's advice was perfect and I've seen this practiced when I've been out and about too.

TunipTheVegedude Wed 24-Jul-13 09:57:41

MrsWolowitz, I think when people are scared they go into 'fight or flight' mode. Flight isn't a lot of use because the dog just runs after them.
Kicking dogs, and definitely kicking puppies hard, isn't ok, but you need to understand that people aren't necessarily doing it because they think it's acceptable but because it's a reflex action that when something you are scared of jumps up on you, you fend it off as hard as you can.

If this happens and a dog gets injured it is as much the fault of the owner who let the dog jump up on a stranger as it is of the 'aggressive' person who did the kicking. Just as if a parent lets a child pet a strange dog and the dog is nervous and snaps at them, the parent is at fault.

Understanding that some behaviour is instinctual has to go both ways.

VivaLeBeaver Wed 24-Jul-13 10:00:31

Well he would see your aggressive overreaction as a defensive reaction.

In his mind the dog is attacking him when it jumps up at him....he isn't going to wait to let it bite him first.

He would try running first but dogs are quick so if he couldn't out run it then that would be his next step.

thegriffon Wed 24-Jul-13 10:30:00

Please don't get a retractable lead, they can cause horrible accidents. A long lead, ie a light trailing lead that you can grab if needed would be better, but ideally just use a normal lead and lots of training.
I saw a lab nearly get its leg sliced off by a retractable lead, lots of blood and yelping. It was playing with another dog (other dog was the one on the retractable lead) and they both got tangled up so impossible to retract the lead and neither dog would recall.
Also v difficult to reel a dog back to you if its running full pelt, you might have to let go of the handle and dog runs off anyway.

tabulahrasa Wed 24-Jul-13 11:53:07

'It's one of the problems having a puppy that looks like a little teddy bear. I just know those same people would never do it to a staffy.'

Um, they do it with my Rottie...

Abuse isn't really called for when you've got an apologetic owner who is trying to catch their dog, but, it's totally not ok to have your dog jumping at people.

Retractable leads are fine, if used sensibly - I have one, you use it with a harness, you don't let your dog play with it on with either people or other dogs and you hit the button as soon as they start running, not after they've built up speed.

I don't use it often though, it's really just for training because I can't use a long line, I tried, I failed.

Mostly what I do is, put him back on the lead as soon as I see someone - you don't need massively quick reflexes because I'm watching for people in the distance and he's not.

eurozammo Wed 24-Jul-13 11:57:52

Your dog was out of control (you said yourself that recall has gone to pot) in a public place. You would have got a mouthful from me too, and I am a dog loving jogger! I've had two dogs, live in a highly populated area, and have never had one jump up at a jogger.

I think you should use a retractable lead (sensibly) for a while.

Lizzylou Wed 24-Jul-13 12:09:36

I have had many a run ruined by dogs jumping up or suddenly crossing right in front of me. I completely agree with Russians posts. I have every right to run without someone else's pet wanting to "only play". If I wanted a dog I'd get one.

MrsW, personally I find people who don't mind dogs jumping up or indeed even biting them when out running, beyond weird.

Op, change your route, as others have said. It is great that you are attempting to train your dog, but not the joggers fault that his run was interrupted by your overexuberant pet puppy.

Floralnomad Wed 24-Jul-13 12:45:40

My son got bitten by a Dalmation on a public playing field when he was at school ( they used the field for games) ,the teacher had shouted at everyone to stop and my son hadn't heard ( he's deaf ) and the dog grabbed him from behind and bit his leg .The teacher was so concerned about dealing with my son that the owner had just walked away by the time anybody thought to speak to him. I'm sorry but dogs should not be off lead unless you have complete control whether they are aged,puppies ,cute ,ugly or something inbetween . viva my DH also got knocked off his bike a couple of weeks ago at about 9.30 at night ,he was on a road and the dog ran off a playing field and went straight into the road and hit him before veering back onto the field , the owners were way off in the distant blissfully unaware . What worried us more was that it could just have easily been a car and the dog could have been dead !

Pizdets Wed 24-Jul-13 13:03:00

Fragile, I feel your pain! My pup is 11 months and loves to run. He never jumps up but likes to run next to joggers. I think everyone we've met has been very patient so far. What works best for us is distraction...i get him into a 'heel' position and focussed on a treat in my hand while we pass a jogger, or use a squeaky ball to get his attention and throw it away from the jogger until they're past. Would either of those work for you?

Although he's a cunning little bugger and generally ignores men but will run off cheekily after women because he knows he'll get more attention from them!

If I'm quite honest, I wouldn't mind if pizpup got kicked by accident. Same as playing with bigger, older dogs, he's an over-confident teen and I think he needs to learn his lesson that not everyone adores him.

Try not to dwell on it, sounds like you're working hard and you're nearly there!

FragileTitanium Wed 24-Jul-13 15:32:16

Hi there

Thanks for the advice all. My last post on this thread. Just for info, my little doggy was in a private, open field this morning, at 6am to which we are lucky enough to have access.

Not a place commonly used for jogging and inaccessible by bike. Was training my doggy at time. Jogger came up behind us from behind a bush and I didn't see him until it was too late. Then he started prancing and hopping about. Puppy thought he was playing a game with her.

Like I said, it is unacceptable for a puppy to jump up and I understand that. I am an inexperienced dog owner and it's taken me a little while to realise I dont' have my lovely compliant puppy anymore but a unruly teenage one.

I will be more careful in future but a little compassion from both sides of the fence wouldn't go astray.

Nobody ever solved anything by abusing the people they are trying to persuade.

Floralnomad Wed 24-Jul-13 15:58:44

I think you will find you got different responses if you had said in the first place that its private property as that's a bit like saying someone shouted abuse at me because my dog jumped up them when they came into my garden . That would be a totally different situation !

littlewhitebag Wed 24-Jul-13 18:50:02

I had some issues with this too so i feel your pain. You get in the position where you are training them to recall but it isn't perfect yet so they end up doing something unacceptable. You keep them on a lead then you can't check how your recall training is working!
My advice is to persevere. My pup is 15 months now and doesn't bother chasing joggers now, or bikes. She also recalls pretty easily from other dogs too. I never, ever thought we would be at this stage.

Booboostoo Wed 24-Jul-13 19:20:12

A couple of ideas to help your recall problems:

1. Do you go to training classes? If not, join one asap. There is no substitute for training in a controlled environment with expert help where you can manage distractions.

2. Play the recall game. You need two people in a small enclosed space like a garden. Crouch a few metres away from each other and take it in turns to call the puppy in a high pitched, excited voice. Reward everytime the puppy comes. Repeat often and in different places.

3. Save your best food rewards for recall, e.g. liver, sausage, cheese.

4. Find a suitable place (empty, no other people) and long line your puppy. That is put a very lightweight, long line on her collar and allow it to trail behind her (it should be very lightweight so that she forgets about it). Let the dog run loose, then call her. If she does not come immediately, step on the line and walk on it all the way to your dog. Gently place your hand under her collar and walk backwards to where you originally were when you called her. When you get there, praise, reward and release her. Repeat ad nauseum. Don't let her off the lead at other times. If you keep this up for 3-4 weeks it works wonders.

5. Don't always put on the lead and leave when you recall her. Recall her often and then let her go continue her walk free. Also always reward the puppy for being near you voluntarily.

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