possible puppies?

(71 Posts)
willoughboobs Tue 26-Feb-13 22:57:11

i have a beautiful lhasa apso who is nearly 3yo and has she has just been in season so we've paid for a stud to mat her with for her first time smile
they was stuck for 20minutes, the studs owners said everything went perfect and they doubt she wont have caught. my dm and df also lhasa apso breeders think the same but I'm not to sure hmm does anyone else think her chances are good just from being stuck once?

mind77 Wed 27-Feb-13 10:14:41

I would look at your reasons for being so desperate to mate your dog tbh. Have you seen the state that rescues are in all through the country? There are thousands of gorgeous,lovely innocent dogs being sent to their deaths every year in this country alone because people continue to breed their dogs just for the sake of money. Why add to this?
Going by your post,you obviously aren't an experienced,reputable breeder so are no better than the average back street breeder. Do you care where these puppies will end up?
This may sound harsh but I am involved in 2 rescues and just started fostering myself. It is heartbreaking to see innocent dogs being killed due to back street breeders keep churning puppies out. I hope to god your dog hasn't caught I'm afraid and you re-think your reasonsangry

D0oinMeCleanin Wed 27-Feb-13 10:27:50

Exciting. I bet the potential buyers on your waiting list have everything crossed.

I know nothing about breeding but wanted to pick your mind about showing/competing dogs and how you get into it? I was thinking of becoming involved with my dog but really don't know where to start.

I guess you got into because your DM and DF show/compete with their dogs? How did they start out? Have you had many champions? What sport do you do? I was thinking about obedience, I can't really show mine because she is not the best example of the breed, would that matter with obedience?

I think it's really great you are working to improve the lhasa breed. Did it take you long to find the right stud? I'm not sure about breeding from my bitch, she's a bit on the small side, so I don't think she would bring much to the breed in general, but maybe if we win some comps I could breed her as a working or trial dog? How do you go about finding the right stud? Obviously I'd want a champ who has sired lots of other champs, is there like a list or something?

Kormachameleon Wed 27-Feb-13 10:41:38

D0oin grin

kitsmummy Wed 27-Feb-13 11:03:36

I'm assuming you haven't been in the Doghouse before Willoughboobs? You may live to regret this...

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tabulahrasa Wed 27-Feb-13 11:15:04

D0oin - I nearly spilt my coffee there...grin

D0oinMeCleanin Wed 27-Feb-13 12:34:13

grin

What? [whistles innocently]

mind77 Wed 27-Feb-13 14:20:04

Have I fallen for a wind upconfused I shall wind my neck back inblush

MagicLlama Wed 27-Feb-13 14:24:44

How exciting for you.

Bitches can indeed be pregnant from 1 tie, although most studs would ime expose the stud and bitch several times over her most fertile days - not just rely on the once. The length of time they have been tied together is not a particular indicator of whether mating has or has not been successful.

You will be able to take her to your vet for an ultrasound in order to confirm pregnancy, and also to get an idea of how many pups she has in there (which is useful to know during her labour). Our vet will do these from around 3 weeks after ovulation.

kitsmummy Wed 27-Feb-13 15:29:33

Mind - I don't think you've fallen for a wind up, more that everyone here is quietly laughing at the roasting that unsuspecting Willoughboobs is letting herself in for grin

SpicyPear Wed 27-Feb-13 15:38:49

I can't be arsed with a flaming on this. It's just so sad and frustrating. Full marks to D0oin for her post. Says it all.

MagicLlama Wed 27-Feb-13 15:46:21

Until puppy purchasers ask the questions Dooin is, people will continue to breed pups.

Its possible that OPs parents are e

MagicLlama Wed 27-Feb-13 15:51:20

damn half posted there ...

... OPs parents are experienced breeders, which is why they are advising her, and she is coming on here to just get reassurance.

There needs to be more regulation with breeding, so that not anyone can do it, the buyers need to be more aware and ask the questions that they are not currently asking.

I also think rescues need to play a part as well - there are so many people that think they cant get a rescue dog because they have children under 7, or work away from home part of the day. This means people then don't even bother to contact them and instead go buy a cute puppy from someone off the internet.

idirdog Wed 27-Feb-13 17:15:04

Bollocks that rescue need to play a part confused They are doing all that they can because of idiot owners, back yard breeders, money grabbers and couldn't give a shit public.

They are working their butts off to make sure the dogs go to good homes and homes that they can stay in for the rest of their lives.

Rescue are not to blame. It is the prospective owners who cannot be bothered to do their research.

OP I bet you must be really out of pocket with all the health testing you must have done before you put your dog to stud - hats off to you.

I am glad that you have a long list or prospective owners who have all been vetted and home visited before the mating took place, that can take a lot of time on you behalf.

I am also glad that you have a few £1000.00 saved in case of the need for veterinary care for your pregnant bitch or if she may need a c section. I would have preferred to go on holiday myself.

It is a huge commitment to offer life time support to the new owners of your puppies but I am glad that you have considered this and will of course take back any puppy at any point in its life time. lhasa can live for a long time that is a grand commitment to make well done.

PeachActiviaMinge Wed 27-Feb-13 17:38:43

I could say so much and none of it would be polite but I think its already been said so well.

I hope I'm wrong and you have a waiting list for those puppies and have done everything D0oin mentions but experience tells me you won't have and you'll just be seeing balls of fluff and cash while rescue workers shake their heads and wait for the puppies to arrive with them where they can struggle to find them homes and pay for their care because another idiot BYB has decided they want to make a quick buck.

I bet you'd tell me how much you love your dog and how special she is to you. If you love her why are you risking her life like this? If you love dogs in general why are you contributing to the thousands of dogs killed every year for want of a home? I know you're just going to shrug this all off and do what you think is best anyway but I'd like you to look at these pictures - first second and third and explain how you plan to make sure any puppies bred from your dog don't end up like these?

I guess in the end I did have a lot to say but posts like yours break my heart, you have no idea of the damage you are doing and how much you are letting down dogs and dog owners the world over and especially your dog and any future puppies she may have.

mind77 Wed 27-Feb-13 18:47:37

Why the hell is it exiting magicllama And what else do you think rescues need to do exactly?? Most rescue workers are run off their feet all hours of the day trying to help dogs,promote dogs,earn funds. Yes there are a few rescues with overly strict adoption rules but most aren't. If people bothered to look at different rescues or ask advice instead of jumping onto the internet etc to buy a cute,fluffy puppy after the first stumbling block then people would find rescues willing to be flexible. There are plenty of people who post on here who want to go down the rescue route but have young kids and have been turned down from rescue. All are pointed to willing rescues. The excuse that you have just thrown out hits the nail on the head. In your words '*people don't even bother to contact rescues*' That nots the rescues fault if people can't be bothered is it. Thats due to alot of people not giving a shit.
You seem to know alot about what the vets will do if her bitch is pregnant. I assume you are either a vet yourself, in which case you must see people coming in every week wanting to have their dog murdered pts for pathetic reasons (that is in no way aimed at the many responsible owners who make the heartbreaking decision to have their dogs pts when they are suffering) so why would you support this?, or you are also one of these back yard breeders who think it is fantastic to bring these little fluffy pups into the world but not actually think about or give a toss about what happens to them years down the line. You must be proud

digerd Wed 27-Feb-13 18:56:31

My favourite breed is Lhasa Apso, but I did not breed from them. My first was 9 months old when I found her and 2nd, years later, I have had for 7.5 weeks aged 2. She will be spayed in April.

Good luck OP.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

willoughboobs Wed 27-Feb-13 21:08:15

wow i didn't expect to get such a roasting blush

I'm breeding my dog for family and friends to buy. my dps breed and sell them to be trained and cared for by people who have already got great well looked after show dogs of all different breeds.

we personally understand the importance of taking care of pets and making sure that they go to safe loving homes where contact will be kept. i don't know if anyone has heard of the sick guy who has abused and killed a staffy in sheffield recently, well i live near there and we was sickened by this, this is why we make sure we keep in touch with the owners. we don't see a pet as something you just look after when its all cuddly, we see it and treat it as a family member all throughout its life.

i don't recall saying i didn't have the money for a c-section or care for these animals angry
my beautiful dog was bred with a stud who is a show dog and also well looked after.

im disgusted by this angry i know how hard it is to rehome all animals and how hard of a job it is to care and look after them, my mums best friend owns a sanctuary for all animals so we see day to day what a hard job it is.

willoughboobs Wed 27-Feb-13 21:10:42

btw all dogs are fully vet checked, vaccinated, wormed and flead before during and after pregnancy and throughout life!!!

Frettchen Wed 27-Feb-13 21:24:09

I don't understand, OP, you say 'i know how hard it is to rehome all animals' and yet you're happily trying to bring more into the world rather than suggesting your friends and family go to a rescue and get a dog who's already here and in need of a home. There are breed-specific rescues, and there are SO many lhasa apso-sized dogs out there who would be just as adorable and just as good pets.

Out of curiosity, how much are you asking for the puppies? Will you stand to make a profit from selling them?

Bear in mind that the people you sell these puppies to will have no obligation to keep in touch with you. Please be sure you have thoroughly checked them before letting the puppies go.

mind77 Wed 27-Feb-13 21:40:18

I don't see why your disgusted I'm afraid. You contradict yourself. If you really felt sickened by the amount of homeless animals and understood the plight of rescues then you wouldn't be breeding more animals into the mix. Why can't your friends/family rescue a dog instead if they know, see and understand how painful and hard rescue is???

Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme Wed 27-Feb-13 21:43:26

We're looking for a lab to work with our spaniel when we go shooting. I looked at loads of local rescues and found a lovely two year old bitch who would have been perfect. Unfortunately in the small print it said they don't rehome where there's children or to working homes. So we will be having one off one of our shooting friends, who's dogs are perfectly suited to the work. We did try, but what are you supposed to do when they won't let you take the dog to your loving, safe, fun, fulfilling household? She'd have had a lovely life with us. Should we have lied? What if she really didn't get on with our children?

MagicLlama Wed 27-Feb-13 21:49:12

Mind I like how you ignored the bit I say about there needing to be more regulation and buyers asking more questions and instead just berate me for my rescue comments.

I think the rescues should do more to promote the "we take people other than those who stay at home all day, and only have teenaged children" message. The majority of people in my experience have the view that they cant get a dg from the rescue because they wont meet some criteria, so they dont bother to contact them. I put them straight where I can, but the rescues could be doing something about that message. I volunteer at a local rescue (cats mind so feel free to discount it if you so wish) so I know just how difficult it is, but I have said to them that unless we make people more aware of the criteria for re-homing, then people will just bypass them.

I am neither a vet nor a back yard breeder, my parents used to breed GSDs, and incidentally met all of Dooins criteria before you throw some more insults out so I have knowledge from them and my brother has had litters off his working dogs, and since at the time I was doing stuff for him, it fell to me to make the arrangements with the vet and thus I know from speaking to the surgery that they would do ultrasounds from 3 weeks.

MagicLlama Wed 27-Feb-13 21:53:19

willough The buyers of the pups have no obligation at all to keep in touch with you, so I agree with the above post about checking them out fully prior to sale. You can also get puppy sales contracts which specify in the event of them new owner being unable to keep the dog it comes back to you for you to rehome, which might be something else to consider.

mind77 Wed 27-Feb-13 22:18:27

magicllama I have not ignored your comments. I fully agree that there needs to be a proper regulation in place in terms of being allowed to breed. I also think that there should be regulation in place though from the buyers end as well. I don't think people should be allowed to just purchase dogs or any animal on a whim,but only the government passing proper legislation is going to help prevent this,which is looking unlikely to ever happen saddly.
Of course I'm not going to discount cats,thats ridiculous. An animal is an animal and they are all just as important and precious.
But how can you post on this thread stating how 'exited' the OP must be and giving encouragment when you work in rescue yourselfhmm You are helping save and re-home animals and yet on the other hand you are encouraging the OP to go ahead with this and bring yet more animals into the world. I may have got over emotional on this subject and you may feel that I have insulted(wasn't my intention) but you are being hypocritical.

Frettchen Wed 27-Feb-13 22:28:46

Most rescues I've seen have put on their website whether the dog is child-friendly or not... And I'm very certain that if you spoke to any rescue and explained that you already had a dog/your children have grown up with dogs, and invite them for a home check that they would make an exception. They generally want what's best for the dog.

Also, many rescues have younger dogs in who are more likely to not have issues with younger kids; you just have to spend a bit of time talking to the rescue and meeting their dogs.

If there were regulations governing the sale of dogs (and all animals) on the internet then there wouldn't be so many people so easily dissuaded from going to rescues.

Every time a BYB is criticised for producing yet more pups, up pops another apologist who trots out the tired old lines about how difficult it is to find a rescue who will home a dog to people who work or have children. hmm

Yet, mysteriously, all the rescues I know, volunteer for and am involved with :-

Will rehome to working people (provided it's an adult dog not a pup and there are appropriate arrangements in place for walking/exercise)

Take a sensible case by case approach to adoption with young children (under 5s) - usually it's dependent on the individual dog.

I'm in S Wales and the following rescues based here are included - Greyhound Rescue Wales, Greyhound Welfare, Animal Lifeline Wales, Hope Rescue, Four Paws Rescue, Lizzies Barn Rescue, Croft Rescue, and Dogs Trust. Between them, these rescues rehome hundreds of beautiful dogs every year to loving responsible homes where there are working adults and children.

I know a fellow MNetter who is having a homecheck on Saturday - she has both children (3 lovely boys) and a job. Oddly enough, she's had no problem at all in sourcing a gorgeous young whippet bitch, mainly because she got off her arse and phoned around a few rescues.

I'm closely involved in efforts in Wales to improve dog breeding regulation. New regs are finally being introduced this May after 2 rounds of consultation and endless hard work in lobbying and campaigning. Rescues have been in the forefront of this campaign and it is the so called "hobby breeders" and the KC angry who have fought the proposals every step of the way and done their utmost to water down the very modest improvements being suggested. So forgive me if I am a little cynical about aspirant BYBs.

willoughboobs Wed 27-Feb-13 23:50:10

iv given my reasons, which i think are clear enough... my family and friends have rescued dogs and some got turned away as they had children and they just want a bit more of a safer option of bringing a dog up with their children!!!

i will not profit from them as I'm only asking for £100 each pup to family and friends which will cover some medical costs.

not everyone wants the risk of having a potentially unsafe pet in their home around their children.

i will keep in contact with the dogs as i said "they are going to family and friends" and i don't see me falling out with them anytime soon and they all live within a mile of me!!!

i wouldn't dare ask someone not to have children because there is abandoned, abused and homeless children allover the world that could be adopted instead of having their own. Just because some pets get mistreat and abandoned doesn't mean this is going to be the case with all breeders.

Yes i am new to this but i know how to look after a dog and give it the best possible care and same for the pups...i was only asking about her chances not how to look after them!!

angry

willoughboobs Wed 27-Feb-13 23:53:26

magic thank you i will definitely think about that smile

tabulahrasa Thu 28-Feb-13 01:46:57

So you think somehow that your puppies will be somehow a safer option than Jackson,
Victor, Tate, Louis or pixie? Or any of the hundreds of other puppies in rescues? Or that puppies that don't yet exist, nevermind raised and trained must automatically have a better temperament than an adult dog who's been trained and assessed by a behavourist? If that's what you think you can't possibly know the day to day business of rehoming dogs.

And by vet checked - do you mean your dog and the stud have current eye certificates and have had clear results from two breed relevant DNA tests, or your vet gives them a quick look over and listens to their chest for 30 seconds?

kitsmummy Thu 28-Feb-13 07:11:39

£100? bullshit

idirdog Thu 28-Feb-13 08:11:08

wiloughboobs everything you write shows you have a very limited experience of dogs.

Your puppies will be "safer" than a rescue?????????? Rescues dogs are fully assessed and matched to the correct household after their behaviour and temperment being watched.

Puppies are unknown expecially breed by back yard breeders who are asking such basic questions.

Well done your dogs are wormed and vaccinated - What health tests and health test papers have you done on your bitch BEFORE the mating?
Have you tested for PRA (a minimum requirements) on the bitch and the dog? These results should also be reported to the Lhasa club of Great Britain to add to their database.

Daily Mail article but highlights the point of how many handbag dogs need rescuing

MothershipG Thu 28-Feb-13 08:49:08

I really hope that you did get the relevant health checks done but even if it's all too late now at the very least get The Book of the Bitch to help guide you through this process. As your OP demonstrated you have obviously done little or no research and your stud's owner appears to be no better.

I hope your bitch comes through this well and has a healthy litter but please arm yourself with some knowledge about what can go wrong and the best way to help her if it does. sad

MothershipG Thu 28-Feb-13 09:01:49

And anyone who is thinking about breeding please read this article first.

Thinking about breeding? Think about this...

I am really really trying hard not to post here.

So I will just be very calm and collected and just say this...

It is utter bollocks that rescues will not rehome to families with under 7s or people who work.
I have rescue dogs. We got BigDog when ds2 was 3. And we both work full time. Luckily enough I am able to bring the dogs to work with me but no, we aren't at home all day.

I've also been fostering dogs since ds1 was 6.

So, no, rescues do not need to do more.
people need to do more.

They need to stop breeding dogs in their home for money. They need to stop buying cute little pups from BYB because their cousins aunties boyfriend told the they can't have a rescue because they have young children.

But there is a definite perception amongst the "want a dog, don't know much about rescue but would consider one, but equally don't have any moral objection to buying a puppy" brigade that rescues won't rehome to workers or with young children. I was at a party a couple of months ago, mentioned we were planning on getting a dog, and every person there told me 'ooh, you'll have trouble getting a rescue, because of the age of your child'.

There is no way I would ever buy a dog as I think it is morally wrong to do so when there are dogs in rescue. So I have always made the effort to research rescues that will rehome to my situation - when I worked full-time I rehomed adult dogs from the RSPCA and DogsTrust, and now I have a child (but work from home) I have found a small local rescue who have no problem with rehoming a young dog to me.

But I've only gone the extra mile as I am passionate about rescue. One person at the party who I was speaking to - in exactly the same home set-up as me - has gone on to buy the cliched chocolate lab pup. If this misperception about rescues' criteria could be broken down, then many more people would rehome, rather than buy.

D0oinMeCleanin Thu 28-Feb-13 14:05:04

"not everyone wants the risk of having a potentially unsafe pet in their home around their children" So only rescue dogs have the potential to snap? I'd always thought any animal with teeth had the potential to bite, regardless of their background, how silly of me.

I foster dogs in my own home with my children and cat. I can asses the dogs and how they behave with children/cats in the home. I can retrain any bad habits they might have picked up along the way. I am studying for a degree in canine behaviour so have a fair idea of what I am doing.

Can you explain why your puppies will be safer than my fostered, trained, assessed (By myself and the home coordinator) dogs?

Incidentally, the only dog we've had who I advised needed a child free home came from a family home where he was raised with five children from 8 weeks old.

kitsmummy Thu 28-Feb-13 17:58:38

Many Tears re-homed to me and I have DD(3). The local labrador rescue would have done too.

littlewhitebag Thu 28-Feb-13 18:26:31

I am a bit non plussed by this thread. I can understand that there are many dogs out there which need rehomed and that some breeders breed for all the wrong reasons. However there are also many people out there who want a pup of a specific breed.
We looked at getting a rescue dog for a while and for a variety of reasons decided this was not for us. We chose to buy a labrador puppy from a breeder and would be very angry if someone told me that i should have had a rescue dog instead. It is my life and my choice. The OP is breeding so her friends and family can have a dog like hers. Why do we disbelieve this. I always thought people on the Doghouse were lovely but now i don't think this at all.

SpicyPear Thu 28-Feb-13 18:37:04

littlewhite I am not against all breeding at all. But I believe that only the best ecamples of the breed ahould be bred from, with very careful matching of the sire and dam, full breed appropriate health tests prior to mating and a lifetime committment to take any pup back at any time in the future. My problem is with people who have no idea what they are doing sticking their, no doubt lovely, but untested random pet with an equally random stud to create puppies with possible genetic problems and that don't further the breed. It is thoughtless back yard breeding as well as puppy farms leading to the massive oversupply of dogs. You should have to be vetted and wait for a puppy. Thousands of puppies available on a whim lead to thousands of unwanted dogs in rescue or pts each year.

Yes, cos it's so horrible to remind people of the essential health checks needed before mating to ensure pups aren't born with preventable genetic conditions. hmm

littlewhitebag Thu 28-Feb-13 18:47:28

It's not horrible to remind people about this but i think the way it has been done here was shameful and not at all in the spirit of support.

D0oinMeCleanin Thu 28-Feb-13 18:49:47

There are puppies of all breeds in rescues if you can be bothered to look, they're just as easy to find as puppies from reputable breeders. Apart from Whippys, there are no whippys in rescue, there are whippets and whippet crosses but no whippys, however since the only whippy in the world has been spayed, despite several people offering her owner money to breed from her and several other people asking if her owner planned to breed from her because they need a whippy of their own, then if any whippy does turn up in rescue I know of at least 20 good homes looking for a whippy.

tabulahrasa Thu 28-Feb-13 18:51:09

littlewhitebag - It's about ethical and unethical breeding.

A responsible breeder breeds because they want that mating to achieve something, a potential champion, a certain working trait...if you're a responsible breeder friends wanting a puppy isn't a good enough reason, not because people shouldn't have puppies but because no-one goes through the expense and hassle of the required health test for someone else's puppy, breeding a litter costs money again why would you do that for someone else to get a puppy, it's also a massive inconvenience. On top of that there's the physical stress and strain you're putting your bitch through - and the very real possibility that you could lose your bitch. Again why would you do all that for someone else to have a puppy?

Because of the risks, the finances and the hassle of it a responsible breeder doesn't just jump into it, they research they find a knowledgeable mentor that they trust to support them and look for the right type of dog to use as a stud with again a knowledgeable owner that they trust to advise and support them.

Because they're trying to achieve a certain look or trait and either shown or competed with their bitch to make sure she was suitable to pass that trait on and have spent time finding people to support and advise them they'll have met other people interested in that mating and would usually have a waiting list of vetted potential owners before the breeding ever happens.

They would know how mating works and they'd have their mentor and stud owner to discuss it with - they wouldn't be asking on here and if they did want to just chat about it, they'd know about the health tests because they'd have been done, they'd know that contracts usually have a clause about returning the dog to them if it was ever to be rehomed. They'd have done their homework before they ever considered the actual litter.

SpicyPear Thu 28-Feb-13 19:02:33

I draw the line at supporting someone in this type of breeding and feela responsibilty to make the points so that hopefully OP will reconsider.

I think the Doghouse is supportive and many of us bite our tongues and try to help when people have clearly been irresponsible in getting a dog, but this type of breeding crosses a line and we'd be part of the problem if we didn't say something.

MagicLlama Thu 28-Feb-13 19:10:52

Scuttlebutter but lots of people do think that about rescues. They do think that they wont be considered because of their kids / work / garden / location whatever. They do think that there is no "point" going to a rescue because it only has staffies, or the dogs are dangerous, or there is no puppies. Yes people have the wrong misconceptions, but I think rescues could do more to promote the fact that that is not the case.

Sadly, many people dont even consider a rescue pup because they a) dont think they are suitable b) dont want the hassle c) think the dogs are more likely to be dangerous / unsafe.

I dont want to rescue bash - I think rescues do brilliant work, and 2 of my dogs are rescues themselves, but I just think the myths about rescues need to torn apart so that the general public consider getting a dog from there and that the rescues have a part to play a part in that.

There also needs to be far more legislation around owning & breeding dogs but I suspect its not very high on the governments priority list so I dont hold out any hope there.

Empress77 Thu 28-Feb-13 19:19:14

Can I also make the point that it is easy to adopt from breed specific rescues....OP could your friends and family not perhaps consider adopting those in need of a home already and still have the exact breed they want - www.lhasaapsorescue.org.uk/rescuers/index.htm

Im a vet nurse and it is so so dismaying and heartbreaking the numbers of: dogs owners want killed because they are too much for them now/dont fit with the new lifestyle/has snapped/a million other excuses....; dogs at death door/having to be euthaniased due to having a pyometra that would have been preventable by spaying ; puppies dead after a ceaser ; pedigrees having to be euthanaised due to health defect that is due to the breed.

I really really wish people would not breed anymore, I cant understand how anyone could think it a sensible plan, its a tragedy for another dog that could have had a home and been a great pet. And its very likely to be a tragedy for the pup itself when the new family tire of it after a year and it ends up in the pound too. And its a tragedy for the poor Mum if she doesnt get spayed after the enforced breeding and ends up with death by pyometra.

Please reconsider breeding from her if she hasnt got pregnant and please look at adopting instead.

idirdog Thu 28-Feb-13 19:19:15

MagicLlama get real! If people are interested in getting a dog it is not a lot to expect a very minimal amount of research eg look at rescue website confused

Rescue centres are fit to bursting and dealing with everyday issues, generally with money raised from charity there is not a lot of time left, or money for promoting what people can find out. If they can't be arsed to find out then have they the time for a dog.

Grunzlewheek Thu 28-Feb-13 19:19:18

There needs to be some kind or regulation on breeding but rescue centres are very off putting.

My first 2 dogs came from Battersea dogs home (many years ago) but last time I tried to get a dog from a rescue centre (yes we went to several) if I had wanted a middle aged big male there were hundreds to choose from, the only small female we found had behavioural problems and had been returned twice. I also rang the local terrier rescue and the woman was so scary I would never dare to contact an organisation like that again !

idirdog Thu 28-Feb-13 19:23:34

littlewhitebag we should be against breeding until the rescue issue has been controlled.

Dogs are being breed without health tests by byb and being given a life of hell due to peoples ignorance. The OP is just typically of people who think they have a right to breed their dogs for friends and family.

The reality is that dogs are being destroyed in their 1000's each day because of overbreeding.

There should be no support for BYB at all ever - that is the dog house being supportive for the rights of the dogs.

Empress77 Thu 28-Feb-13 19:24:16

And Im sure Ive seen Canine Defence league TV adverts showing plenty of interesting dogs needing homes! And my local paper shows dogs needing homes at the RSPCA so Im sure they must work to get their dogs out there. And they all have websites with plenty of info & clearly showing dogs that are suitable for children etc. People getting a dog should do some research (another major problem of course is that people dont-and you have collies with behavioural issues cos they live in a flat etc!).
I think rescue centres do amazing work. And I would say its far easier to adopt with the support of one, including training from a behaviouralist and one thats likely to be toilet trained already etc, than picking up a puppy and having to go through toilet training etc.

idirdog Thu 28-Feb-13 19:24:39

Battersea is not a rescue centre it is a dog pound and puts down hundreds of dogs each year.

D0oinMeCleanin Thu 28-Feb-13 19:29:19

Grunzle, I am sorry but I don't believe you did try. I could find hundreds, if not thousands of small, young bitches in rescue in just an hour. Maybe one or two rescues had none, but I don't believe for a second that none did. As for the scary lady, are so you childish that you would believe all rescuers are exactly the same as one another? I know many rescue workers, some can be abrupt when they've had a day full of calls from the public demanding that their dog be collected that day at the rescues expense because they're moving tomorrow and will have the dog pts otherwise, but mostly they are lovely and will bend over backwards to help you.

Our puppy came from a reputable breeder. Waiting list, we were reserve but litter was large. Interview. Bitch bred once to gain a puppy themselves, already spayed. Mother and grandmother owned. Sire chosen for size, temperament and conformity. All health checks complete. Hip scores very low. Lifetime support. Home boarding for life. Emailed pictures and updates of puppies at least twice a week. microchipped. Even now, reminders from 'mummy' to send more photos. Sire available to view.

Emergency c'section meant breeder fed puppies, all 13 at two hourly intervals until mum could cope with the demands of such a large litter.

All that being said, I wish I had researched rescues more, I believed a few myths and didn't pursue two particular avenues of enquiry as rigorously as I ought to have done. . Also did have one difficult rescue experience which was absolutely genuine.

I know better for next time.

Hope all the above re breeder applies here, that's all.

Grunzlewheek Thu 28-Feb-13 21:10:26

3 large rescue centres. Phoned another who insisted all members of the family attended an interview before they would even tell me if they had anything suitable. I couldn't ask DH to take time off work without knowing if they even had a suitable dog.
As for Terrier lady, ok so maybe she was having a bad day, but why would you want to risk putting off someone who might help ?

I'm not trying to start an argument I am just explaining why people don't go to rescue centres.

Just done a check on RSPCA site, 5 young bitches in whole country, 2 must be only dogs...................hundreds ? hmm

Grunzlewheek Thu 28-Feb-13 21:17:30

Dogs Trust, 3 nearest rescue centres, small female 2 years or younger.........none !

I went to see a rescue dog that was in foster care. I had been home checked and interviewed. I spent over two hours with the dog, I hit it off with both fosterer and dog tbh.

Later that day, the coordinator phoned and said he was mine. The fosterer also phoned to say she was delighted with the forever home the dog would get. I was overjoyed.

An hour later, the coordinator called to say that someone the rescue managers dh worked with was looking for this particular breed and they had decided to give the dog to them as a favour. I was gutted.

One bad experience shouldn't have put be off though I readily admit. Kids hankered for a puppy and I started to research this more.

I do know our dog will be loved regardless of origin!

SpicyPear Thu 28-Feb-13 21:27:40

needa I don't think we actually disagree too much. I prefer to take rescue dogs and am very pleased to hear that you will consider it next time but I respect the effort you went to in selecting a responsible breeder. I know you're trying to give OP the benefit of the doubt but look at it like this, can you imagine your breeder posting that? That's what is the problem here and got everyone so riled.

SpicyPear Thu 28-Feb-13 21:35:42

Grunzle the problem is that the type of dog you were looking for are rehomed very quickly. They often wont get on the website as someone who could be bothered to take their family for an interview to get "on the books" and arrange a home check will have been called about them as soon as they arrived. That's how I got my 9 week old puppy and he could have gone to anyone with children. The entire litter had homes within an afternoon. You cannot just go out and pick up a responsibly bred pup, you have to research and meet breeders, then be interviewed and go on a list. I really don't see how that is any less effort than registering with a handful of rescues and waiting.

Er no Spicy, fair point smile

There are a few decent breeders out there if you spend time researching, but for our next dog, I understand the rescue predicament better and would be rather more belligerent (if that's the right word) about keeping at this route.

We live near a large rescue, you really do gave to make your face known as they have so many window shoppers, this may come over as unhelpful if you don't know this, which I do know!

D0oinMeCleanin Thu 28-Feb-13 21:40:24
tabulahrasa Thu 28-Feb-13 21:52:45

Well a good breeder will want to meet a whole family too - quite often before the bitch has even been mated...it'd be quicker and easier to go to a rescue usually tbh.

I would imagine they wanted to meet everybody to see if they had anything suitable...how would they know from a phone call?

Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme Thu 28-Feb-13 21:53:26

TantrumsAndBalloons I hope your comment about myths wasn't aimed at me! The website was Norfolk Rescue I think and that's exactly what it said! They wouldn't rehome to young families or working homes! I couldn't give a shit if you disagree, I do too, but that's what it said. hmm

If however there is a Labrador rescue I would gladly take a look. A rescue centre dedicated to a working breed would obviously rehome with a working family.

I have to say, my old boy is at his most deliriously happy when we head off up the farm in shooting season. He loves his work, it is where he is happiest and when he does his ashes will be spread round the woods and fields where he is at his most demented excited happiness

I would like to think that my next dog gets as much enjoyment from being with us and if I could provide that to a rescue dog that would be lovely.

Spicy - anyway, so much for pedigree status. He ain't never going to win a beauty contest now with the state of his eye!!! smile

I'll say it again - regulation of breeders IS coming in Wales from May. I was at (yet another) meeting last week with Welsh Govt officials - Wales has a road map for dog welfare which started with banning shock collars, will be having compulsory chipping, dog breeding regs and the latest thing - Control of Dogs looking at dog behaviour and training. For the last three of these, I've been very closely involved with the preliminary work - the grind of meetings, working parties etc (all done on a voluntary basis by *rescue volunteers*). Funnily enough, breeders were nowhere to be seen, except for the dog breeding regs, when they mounted a furious campaign to water down the very modest set of proposals that the Welsh Government initially proposed. Remember that - it's "hobby breeders" and the KC who oppose the sort of regulation that governs idiot BYBs and large scale puppy farmers.

And rescues already do plenty. For anyone who is thinking about dog ownership, there are masses of sources of information especially these days with the internet. Every rescue I know has at least a website, a Facebook page, most have Twitter. The Dogs Trust have a whole social media department because they know how important it is. Dogs Trust and RSPCA do TV ads. I regularly hear Clarissa from DT on national media e.g. R4. Rescues do education work, the Retired Greyhound Trust take out full page ads in the Daily Telegraph FFS. Magazines like Dogs Today promote rescue dogs every month. All the time, all over the country, small rescues run events, meet n greets, dog shows, walks, picnics, talks to groups, visits to Brownies and a multitude of other events/activities.
Of course there is always more to do but most rescues are run on a shoestring by committed volunteers who are also busy caring for the dogs they look after.

And like Dooin, I am also sceptical of the "we can't find anything that isn't a staffie" claims. Virtually every breed has its own rescue, and again the wonders of the internet mean that if, say, you wanted a cocker you could register with CAESSR very easily after two mouse clicks.

Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme Thu 28-Feb-13 22:18:10

Saying that, I can't find it now. I also can't find a local lab rescue but will keep looking.

Have suggested to dh about having a rescue dog. He said no. He wants a well bred dog that he knows and can train.

I'm sure if we looked hard enough we could find a nice lab from a rescue somewhere. Would be a lot cheaper too.

hmm I 've just typed the words "Labrador Rescue" into Google. Amazingly, there are labrador rescues all over the UK, and many which are national as well. Most rescues can also arrange for homechecks/transport etc.

Just on the first page of my Google search there were several dedicated lab rescues based in the SE of England.

MagicLlama Thu 28-Feb-13 22:58:34

Yes but most people dont bother. I dont know why that it - I assume that really its because a cute puppy for a couple of hundred pounds seems like a better option than jumping through all of the hoops a rescue has.

Buying a dog needs to be harder, it needs to be more thought out by people buying them, and breeding needs to become more regulated. Hopefully this compulsory microchipping will help - although it hasn't been brilliant with horses, but one can hope.

And it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that the KC were campaigning against better regulation. Them and the RSPCA are on my list of self serving organisations to try and have as little to do with as possible, but thats a whole other thread.

LadyTurmoil Thu 28-Feb-13 22:59:44

Can add a few more: Heathlands in Hertfordshire, Four Paws, Hope Rescue, Wagtails Rescue (Essex), South East Dog Rescue, Oldies Club, Many Tears, Pro Dogs Direct (South East England), Hillside Animal Sanctuary (Norfolk), Ravenswood Dog Rescue, Dog Friends, Bath Dogs and Cats Home, Black Retriever Rescue, Mayflower Animal Sanctuary, you can google Dogpages and get a list of rescues in your particular part of the country. I found all these through Google, most of them have Facebook pages as well.

If you are willing to rescue a dog from abroad there are so many rescues operating in Spain like SOS Animals UK, RSDR in Bulgaria, Action Aid for Animals in Romania, Sirius Dog Sanctuary and Desperate Greekies as well as rescues in Cyprus - they are all helping to home dogs in UK and other European countries. They often have puppies (as do all the UK rescues) because of IRRESPONSIBLE breeders and owners who don't spay their dogs.

Thousands and thousands of dogs all looking for homes, can you really say it's impossible to find a rescue dog?

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