Police visit, false accusations

(94 Posts)
dogslife Tue 26-Feb-13 14:32:45

Have a staffordshire bull terrier, through ongoing problems with the neighbours they have falsely reported us for owning a pitbull (banned breed)

Have a police visit scheduled for next week to determine if he is "of type", have printed out the relevant documents and highlighted things relevant, been in touch with vet and also with DDA watch charity who help people affected by BSL. Is there anything else i could/should be doing. Heartbroken at the thought of losing our pet.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine Tue 26-Feb-13 14:34:55

Do you have any evidence of the ongoing problem with your neighbours?

tabulahrasa Tue 26-Feb-13 14:38:43

I take it he's not KC registered? Are either of his parents? If there's any evidence that they are his parents and there's a KC registration that might help.

If he looks how a staffy should look, it should be fine anyway - though it's all a bit hit and miss really sad

dogslife Tue 26-Feb-13 14:40:51

not really it is small scale. Have had to put doubled up net curtains up as they stand and stare into the house and watch us which is quite intimidating for me as dp works away) but nothing that could actually be proved if that makes sense. it is ongoing intimidation but nothing actually against the law on their part.

dogslife Tue 26-Feb-13 14:41:31

long legged staff, but is kc registered and has papers proving parentage.

dogslife Tue 26-Feb-13 14:49:18

i agree tab because BSL is based on looks along - height,weight ect it is very hit and miss. makes me worried for him

tabulahrasa Tue 26-Feb-13 15:12:03

Common sense would say that KC registration should do it, but of course common sense doesn't necessarily apply...it should go in your favour though.

tabulahrasa Tue 26-Feb-13 15:21:41

The paperwork should work in your favour that is...

D0oinMeCleanin Tue 26-Feb-13 15:24:30

Contact these people today. They will advise. Papers won't necessarily be enough, the police are a law unto themselves with the DDA laws.

Wheldon Law specialise in cases like this so I would also contact them

Do not sign anything without legal advise, no matter what the police say. I've heard too many horror stories about people being tricked into signing their dog's destruction orders.

SaskiaRembrandtVampireHunter Tue 26-Feb-13 15:26:58

This happened to my brother just after the DDA became law. His dog was a staffie x lab, and apparently the length of her legs and back and the size of her head made her suspect. The case was dropped though, mostly because he had a lot of help from his vet.

As your dog is KC registered and your vet is on your side, you are in a pretty strong position.

I would strongly advise that you have a legal adviser present at the interview, preferably one who understands the law in this area. I would recommend Trevor Cooper of Doglaw - Trevor knows and understands this area of law very, very well. link

FellatioNels0n Tue 26-Feb-13 15:29:18

Do the 'ongoing problems' concern the dog? I see no reason why you would lose him if he has no behavioural/aggression issues, unless of course it was a cut and dry case of his being a Pit Bull. Which is virtually impossible to prove anyway.

NandH Tue 26-Feb-13 15:30:25

no advise what so ever, just couldn't read and go!! so good luck, I'm sure it'll be fine with the evidence you have!

what mean neighbours you have! ... I'd be looking for revenge!!

SaskiaRembrandtVampireHunter Tue 26-Feb-13 15:32:12

"unless of course it was a cut and dry case of his being a Pit Bull. Which is virtually impossible to prove anyway. "

The dog doesn't have to be a pit bull, simply of that type - in other words, a dog of another breed/mixed breeds that conforms to a certain standard can be classed as a pit bull and destroyed.

SaggyOldClothCatpuss Tue 26-Feb-13 15:33:53

I cant remember what they were called, but I recently found a company who would DNA your dog and tell you what mixed breeds he is. Surely the police should be able to use this type of test?

tabulahrasa Tue 26-Feb-13 15:37:53

They also don't need to prove it is a pitbull, it's up to you to prove it isn't and KC registration as another breed doesn't even necessarily count - though it should be a plus at least.

Unfortunately a dog doesn't need to have any behavioural issues to be seized.

FellatioNels0n Tue 26-Feb-13 15:48:08

The trouble is Saggy, if you decide to go down that route after the police become involved and they are waiting on the outcome, what are you going to do if the result comes back unexpectedly positive? If it really, really looks like a Pit Bull then chances are it is part Pit Bull, or Pit Bull type, and you can do all the protesting you like. You can hardly refuse to give over the results once they know you have them, can you?

ClaimedByMe Tue 26-Feb-13 15:48:41

I bought a dog testing kit from Amazon the company is 'wisdom panel insights' I am not sure how accurate it was but something like that may help.

What awful neighbours you have got, every crossed for you that the police see this is just a waste of time.

Tiredtrout Tue 26-Feb-13 16:00:15

I unfortunately sometimes deal with this sort of thing through my work. Have all your papers ready to show them about your dog, is he insured and chipped? If so have those bits together too. If you can prove that your dog is not 'of type' more the better, if you can't it's helpful to be able to show that you are a responsible owner. Another good site for advice is deed not breed.

The paperwork mentioned by dooin is a dog disclaimer form, that means that you give up ownership of your dog. Some dogs are destroyed others are rehoused following signing these.

The other thing to look at is the defra website, they manage the 'list' of dogs that are of type under the dda that have conditions of ownership

Tiredtrout Tue 26-Feb-13 16:01:54

Another couple of things, I hope it all works out for the assessment but please start keeping a diary and look at reporting the issues you have with your neighbour. Do you know why they have reported your dog?

dogslife Tue 26-Feb-13 16:19:40

He seems to reporting folk left right and centre including neighbours reported to the dole for working when they dont, having lodgers and family staying. He has also reported next door who own a staffordshire bull terrier as well. he was moved here by the HA less than a year ago for his own safety and he seems to hate it.

The ongoing problems arent concerning the dog or hes never mentioned a problem with the dogs to me before this.

I have been in touch with the DDA and Wheldon law, my dog is insured, microchipped, up to date with everything. walked on a lead and has a muzzle ( purely for or own protection)

sad v worried which i suppose is what he wanted but that dog means the world to me

Tiredtrout Tue 26-Feb-13 16:24:39

Alot of people think staffies are pit bulls and report them for this. I would still keep a diary of the issues you are having, the background of the reporting person will get looked at normally. All the things you do for your dog are generally what the conditions are for being on the list.

Good luck

dogslife Tue 26-Feb-13 16:28:10

I hope so. i have got a folder of all the relevant documents together so they are all ready for the day. just very worried.

I definately will start keeping a diary, i just thought he was abit miffed to be living here but he seems to be relishing in causing as much trouble as he can. plus the staring into the house when its dark is very intimidating when im alone with dcs.

SaskiaRembrandtVampireHunter Tue 26-Feb-13 16:29:12

He sounds like an absolute nightmare! Is there anyway you could complain to his landlord. Surely, making repeated false allegations against your neighbours counts as harassment. If it doesn't, it should.

SaskiaRembrandtVampireHunter Tue 26-Feb-13 16:30:49

"plus the staring into the house when its dark is very intimidating when im alone with dcs."

Next time he does this, film him on your phone, then call the non-emergency police number.

Well the neighbour sounds nuts. Perhaps have a written list of the reports he's made to handover ( I wouldn't start listing verbally as you might start to sound bit as if you're ranting about him, but if you just say there's been no complaints re the dog but he's reporting other neighbours for xy and z it might help)

dogslife Tue 26-Feb-13 16:34:03

thanks, i am glad to know there are people like you guys here for support. to be honest i thought i would get laughed at if i reported the staring into the house

dogslife Tue 26-Feb-13 16:35:47

no complaints about my dog at all. have sectioned off the end of the gardenas our gardens run alongside each other with a gate so he cannot call the dog up to the fence between us as was worried about him making false allegations about him so now he phsyically cannot get near the dog and vice versa.

SpicyPear Tue 26-Feb-13 17:34:27

So sorry to hear this. I have a Staffie and understand how horrible this must be. It really is despicable legislation. I see you've spoken to DDA Watch etc already so that's great. I would second Trevor Cooper as per Scuttle's link. He runs a premium rate advice line if you need any further advice. Everything crossed for you and don't sign anything. They cannot seize him from your property without a warrant. Everything crossed for you and please update us. Friendly dogs should not have to suffer, at best, being kennelled and then muzzled because of how they look.

digerd Tue 26-Feb-13 17:39:51

OP
When it's dark why don't you draw the curtains or pull the blinds down?
The police action to prevent burglars advise closing curtains at night so they can't see in.
Sorry you have a horrid neighbour. Good luck with the police, but if you have KC papers stating he is a Staffie, surely that should suffice imo

SpicyPear Tue 26-Feb-13 17:48:39

Unfortunately digerd KC staffies have been deemed to be pit bull types because of the ridiculous way the legislation is drafted. Most pit bull types aren't in the slightest bit pit bull, just bull breed crosses that fit certain measurements.

dogslife Tue 26-Feb-13 18:38:18

thanks for the advice glad to hear that i seem to be doing all the right things so far. as spicedpear says i really wish i could believe it would all be okay but they seem to take more notice of measurements than papers or anything else.
I dont have any curtains in the kitchen, we had one net curtain but you could see through it and now there are two so cant see through it. to put a curtain there would be quite expensive and we have never needed to before now but we may have too soon!

tabulahrasa Tue 26-Feb-13 19:02:39

I don't have a staffy and I still think it's an awful piece of legislation.

I hope everything goes fine for you.

SaggyOldClothCatpuss Tue 26-Feb-13 19:23:13

Dogslife, look into sticky back plastic for windows. I think it's made by Fablon. Lets the light in, keeps nosey bastards out! wink

dogslife Tue 26-Feb-13 19:30:33

ah that would be brilliant does it go on crease free so it looks like the actual window? good plan!

SaggyOldClothCatpuss Tue 26-Feb-13 19:53:32

You spray the glass with a solution of water and washing up liquid. Then when you apply it it slips about a bit for a little while and you can smooth the bubbles out. A big ruler is great for the smoothing. I love it. You don't even have to put it over the whole window, just high enough for people not to see in!

dogslife Tue 26-Feb-13 19:54:11

will be on the lookout for this stuff, that would be brill.

SaggyOldClothCatpuss Tue 26-Feb-13 19:56:22

I've seen it in b&q, homebase and the range. It's also called privacy film for windows.

bamboobutton Tue 26-Feb-13 19:59:43

I found this for you that should stop the creep peering in.

hope everything turn out alright, which I'm sure it will.

dogslife Tue 26-Feb-13 20:05:17

that looks fab, just hope next week goes well and im posting a happy update!

SpicyPear Tue 26-Feb-13 20:30:05

Good luck OP. I second the window film. It's very effective.

Frettchen Wed 27-Feb-13 21:36:49

I've been looking into this ridiculous legislation a bit of late and it very much seems like the onus is on the owner to prove that a dog is not a pit bull or 'pit bull type'. It sounds to me like your KC papers would do the trick. If you're at all worried I would recommend getting in touch with the ladies at Breed Not Deed - from their site it sounds like they've helped a lot of people in your position; where the dog isn't a banned breed but has caught the attention of the police for various reasons.

Good luck for next week, and definitely get the police involved if he continues harrassing you.

dogslife Fri 01-Mar-13 21:39:33

have had some fantastic support from the DDA watch charity, my boy is booked in with the vet this week before the visit to be neutured which we have been waiting to do for a while. I am very concerned about the visit and a little upset tonight, sad at the prospect of them taking my boy and how long he could be away for. he is a gentle soul.

ToomuchWaternotWine Tue 05-Mar-13 17:39:06

Is there any update OP? Have the police been yet? Thinking if you and hope it all goes well. Second the idea of listing the complaints he is making about everyone so they are aware of his tactics. Best of luck x

dogslife Tue 05-Mar-13 20:32:10

evening, police visit is later on this week so ill be back to update but will post in the meantime. My boy went in to be neutured this morning hes home now and apart from being sleepy hes fine. ive got all the info and backing i can possibly have. Practice manager is doing a letter vouching for his excellent temprement whilst hes been in their care and when he goes in. just hoping for the best now, am armed with all the information possible and have done everything i can possibly think of.

you have had some fabulous advice and I wish you the best of luck for the visit.

Please do update, this sort of thing is becoming more regular with SBT owners.

dogslife Tue 05-Mar-13 21:46:07

have been really upset this week. we have had an awful time lately as a family and ive been feeling pretty low. he takes my mind off things when we are out walking, he is my companian when dp is away He generally makes things seem that little less crap.I am just hoping that i have done enough. It certainly is becoming more and more common and i cannot recommend DDA watch enough they have been a brilliant support.

gymmummy64 Tue 05-Mar-13 23:10:41

Been following your thread and keeping my fingers crossed for you Dogslife Your boy sounds so lovely x

dogslife Wed 06-Mar-13 11:16:13

he really is, hope it goes okay tomorrow am very prepared anyway. picking vet letter up today

Rooting for you and your boy x

HotPinkWeaselWearingLederhosen Wed 06-Mar-13 13:47:34

Me too best of luck thanks

Good luck xthanksx

dogslife Wed 06-Mar-13 14:05:22

ill be back on by Lunchtime tomorrow u lovely lot. sleeping peacefully now recovering from his op, he is insured, he is chipped. I have a dogs trust membership and have bought a muzzle in case so I have hope x

SpicyPear Wed 06-Mar-13 15:07:13

Thinking of you and your boy. Good luck.

ClaimedByMe Wed 06-Mar-13 17:03:56

Good luck for tomorrow, I am sure it will be fine smile

Good luck. I've just read this, I feel for you.

We have staffies, our neighbour threatened to report us last year for having a dangerous pit bull. They must have changed their minds.

Also, my ds1 gets stopped by the police a lot when he walks the dogs in the evening which is not fun for him.

I hope it all works out for you.

dogslife Wed 06-Mar-13 21:08:12

its so wrong tantrums sad. just can't believe someone would do it with no reason I'd understand if he was dangerous or aggressive but he's not. letter of the vet is brilliant really in depth and supportive. don't want to leave his side tonight just in case sad.

digerd Wed 06-Mar-13 21:10:53

OP
Hope your boy is not too sore tomorrow. This pitbull thing is like a witchhunt.
I haven't seen any, but staffies and staffie crosses and all are very friendly and non-aggressive where I live.
One large dog frightened a young woman I was speaking to, but I walked on towards him and owner and he was a big SOFTIE. I shouted to her that he was, but she wouldn't go near him.

It is not the size and shape of the head, it is the nature of the dog.
Are the police coming Friday?

BrianCoxandTheTempleofDOOM Wed 06-Mar-13 21:16:39

I have no advice, but just wanted to send you lots of good luck vibes.

It sounds like you are doing everything possible and I am sure the outcome will be in your favour.

Your neighbour is a twat.

dogslife Wed 06-Mar-13 21:25:52

tomorrow morning, I agree also my neighbour is a twat. my boy the same people will avoid him but he is soft as anything. big love he is. I feel v well prepared and supported but still worried sick

ToomuchWaternotWine Wed 06-Mar-13 21:34:06

Huge good luck vibes from here too x

dogslife Wed 06-Mar-13 21:35:53

having a cry already , am such a sap. but he's my friend. corny as that sounds

dogslife Thu 07-Mar-13 13:03:25

HES STAYING AT HOME!!! [GRIN]

Due to measurements and as predicted we will have to go to court and he will placed on the exempted dogs register having to adhere to certain conditions but hes staying here!

Thank you for all your good lucks and well wishes x

Floralnomad Thu 07-Mar-13 13:13:56

Great news ! Also do start reporting all your neighbours anti social and harassing behaviours to the 101 number or the local PCSO , they really are interested in this kind of thing and it may help in the future .

SaggyOldClothCatpuss Thu 07-Mar-13 13:22:57

thats wonderful. Tell your awful neighbours to piss right off!

So so pleased for you xx

gymmummy64 Thu 07-Mar-13 13:25:44

grin grin grin

So pleased to hear the news! xx

Yay! grin So, so pleased for you x

Dilemma247 Thu 07-Mar-13 14:00:05

Just out of interest, did you get a caution?
I presume they they have decided be is a pit bull type a d have put him on a schedule 1 notice..
I just wondered if there was an automatic caution
And does he need tattoing?

And .. What a relief!

SpicyPear Thu 07-Mar-13 14:10:28

Excellent news! It's a shame he has been classified as type but the important thing is he gets to stay with you. Police have this discretion and don't exercise it enough so I'm delighted they have used this option.

dogslife Thu 07-Mar-13 14:14:16

he does need to have a tattoo yes that's the only thing left to do which will be done after he is exempted. we have not been cautioned he has been typed purely on some measurements. just glad he is staying here! cost is an issue but we will do it he's my boygrin thanks pear grin grin grin.

HelgatheHairy Thu 07-Mar-13 15:14:44

I met my first staffy Tuesday (they're not common here in Ireland) and he was lovely. Soo friendly and a big grin and let my 10 month golden sniff him like crazy. I was chatting to the owner and she was saying she generally walks him in places where they don't run into many people cause of other people's reaction. Such a pity.

BrianCoxandTheTempleofDOOM Thu 07-Mar-13 15:58:31

Good news! What a relief - I love Staffs, have only ever met stupid, grinning, softies and I really rate them as a family dog.

Not that I could cope with one though grin

RedwingWinter Thu 07-Mar-13 16:45:04

Yay! I'm so relieved. And I echo Floralnomad in reporting the neighbour to 101 when he harrasses you, because you never know it might come in useful in the future to have a record of it all. (Also he might stop).

ClaimedByMe Thu 07-Mar-13 16:49:25

Phew what a relief, I have been so worried about you and your staff, I can't imagine what it would be like if anyone took away my baby Staffie.

Hope you are giving her extra cuddles now!

dogslife Thu 07-Mar-13 16:53:01

sobbed my heart out last night sad. didn't want to leave him to go bed. he is the best. mildly panicked about the costs but we will find a way
smile

Chopstheduck Thu 07-Mar-13 18:40:31

Oh that is brilliant news, been wondering about you!

Seems very unfair that you have to have to find money cos of some twat of a neighbour but at least your boys is safe. Really pleased for you all.

(Kelly)

So pleased for you. Love staffs. One of my fave ever dogs was a lovely staff called Ron. Xxx

SpicyPear Thu 07-Mar-13 19:52:46

Do DDA watch have any funds available to help you with the costs? How bad is it in terms of what you are having to fork out for?

dogslife Thu 07-Mar-13 19:57:01

Its looking at the minute that it will be just over the £300 mark but we may as you suggested be able to get some help. its totally worth it to keep our boy though so we will find a way. Thank you all so much for being so lovely smile im glad i posted now was worried.

tabulahrasa Thu 07-Mar-13 22:59:50

smile that's great news.

Does that mean you're going to have to muzzle him?

dogslife Fri 08-Mar-13 07:29:29

yep it doessad but better that than lo
se him. he does have a muzzle but so far just in training stages.

ceres Fri 08-Mar-13 07:47:48

so glad you still have your boy with you.

but how horrible that he is going to have to be tattooed and wear a muzzle for absolutely no reason than being the 'wrong' measurements. the DDA doesn't make any sense to me.

dogslife Fri 08-Mar-13 07:55:03

me neither sad especially due to measurements rather than him actually doing anything but ill do what it takes to keep him sad my best boy

Wereonourway Fri 08-Mar-13 07:59:30

Been following the thread with interest.
So glad he is staying at home with you.
I had a staffy who lived to the age of thirteen and he was an absolute joy.
Soft as muck, so so loving and as daft as a brush.
Well done op!

dogslife Fri 08-Mar-13 08:11:28

am so pleased he's staying with me its going to be hard enough him going with police the day of court couldnt hack it for a long time. we are like shrek and donkeygrin

TomDudgeon Fri 08-Mar-13 08:13:06

Just read the whole thread, glad there was good(ish) news at the end

The one thing I thought of was that you have a creepy neighbour who wants you to be on your own without a dog... That would freak me. But all is ok

dogslife Fri 08-Mar-13 08:18:45

the neighbour generally does freak me out, I've got the window situation sorted though. I hate this estate wish I could pack up but no such luck.

ToomuchWaternotWine Fri 08-Mar-13 15:01:11

Yay so relieved you get to keep your lovely boy, even under those conditions. Hope your neighbour gets bitten on the arse by karma (or a jack Russell) sometime soon!!

dogslife Mon 11-Mar-13 13:55:47

Me too water, feeling it now. i was so elated to have him be able to stay at home that i didnt consider just how much it was going to cost at a time we really cant afford it. have spent much nights having a cry now. we will find some way but i honestly dont know how. We are set to lose money through the cuts in April as altho partner works full time its low income. Its just come at the worst possible time where what little money goes in is straight back out again sad feeling really down today. My lovely boy he didnt do a single thing apart from look abit taller than he should.

dogslife Tue 12-Mar-13 14:33:12

Right after my general glum attitude im here with some better news today, have managed to access a behaviorist through charity deed not breed. she is going to come to us when it can be arranged and is only charging the petrol costs. massive massive weight off my mind and very grateful.

Chopstheduck Wed 13-Mar-13 06:25:51

tht is good news! Keep strong, dogslife x

dogslife Thu 14-Mar-13 10:15:08

Back again, thanks for your kind words chops. ive started putting a bit of money away towards the cost in a tin that you cant open. cant stretch to putting much away at the minute as living off tax credits,am due to have the operation soon so havent gone back to work yet since we lost mum. Every little helps though and it will build up. Our boy is pretty oblivious to everything thats going on, the behaviorist visit should be towards next weekend or the week after so she can see how lovely he is. i just cant believe all this from a daft complaint i wouldnt feel so wronged had he actually done anything wrong but he is so soft!.

dogslife Sat 16-Mar-13 16:46:33

hi all how are you all doing? not much to update from us. muzzle training going really well. no date for behaviourist or court yet

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