Grrr walkers(67 Posts)
I took ds to walk and took our Border terrier with me on lead as usual. Loads of parents do same and there was one woman who had 2 spaniels on leads too. After drop off I took dog over recreation park for walk. The dog was fine and my friend and I were chatting when I suddenly noticed woman with spaniels who were still on lead at other end of field my dog shot off to play with hers, as I got nearer it was obvious woman was not happy and she shouted at me to call my dog, I did and just as he started to come she walked away so he followed her as he thought the dogs were playing. She was clear cross (I was hollering like a navvy at dog to come) as I got nearer them I called (pleasantly) if you could just stop for a minute he will come to me and I'll put him on lead. He thinks your playing. so she stopped I called dog and he came immediately and I put him on lead. She then walked off and shouted back at me you should keep your dog on a lead.
We were on a field where loads of people walk their dogs, often there are 10 dogs with parents from school it was unusually quiet that day just her and me with dogs. My dog was not aggressive, he wanted to play .... Ok he didnt come first time but she did distract him. When she stood still he came straight away.
Why if it bothered you would you take your dogs there, or aibu
Mmm...I have a border pup who won't come away from other dogs when called and I am very selective where I let him off and on the odd occaision my lead ninja act has failed then I pelt after to retrieve him at speed
Her dogs are maybe not keen on other dogs hence the leads? I think if you don't have very reliable recall then you have to be careful about allowing your dog off lead to be honest as from her point of view her dog was under control and yours wasn't.
I always operate the rule if someone has their dog on a lead I put mine on a lead.
It is really upsetting if you have a dog on dog aggressive dog and then a loose dog is round you dog making it go mad.
Finally another walker should not have to stop to enable you together your dog.
The law says close control.
Agree with everything Lone said - and I speak as the owner of a dog on dog aggressive Spaniel. If your dog came running up to him, he would probably have a go (all bark and no bite but still quite scary) but I would feel I had the moral highground as my dog was under control and yours was not.
I see very few terriers off the lead where I live - and there are hundreds of them, as I understand they have very poor recall.
I think you are bvu. Part of being a Responsible dog ownership means that we are aware of how our actions and our dogs actions impact on those around us.
On lead dogs should never ever be approached by other dogs off leads.
There are numerous reasons why dogs are on leads. They should also be allowed to walk where they want to! Why do some dogs eg yours have the right to walk somewhere if you do not control it and the dogs that are controlled loose that right?
Tbh Op I'd have been annoyed with you, I hate to see dogs out of control. Which means to me if you haven't got immediate, foolproof recall over a dog, it should be on a lead, or at least a long training line.
I have learned that I need to put lead on when I encounter another on lead who I don't know. My dog is like yours, wants to play with every dog. Her recall is pretty good plus I use a whistle so I can always get her attention but I still prefer to have her sitting at my side or on lead in this situation just in case.
My dog was not aggressive, he wanted to play Maybe her dog was aggressive and she wanted to keep yours away for it's own safety. I'm sure you'd have had a lot to say if your dog ended up injured by hers because you couldn't control him.
This really winds me up. When we had our last foster she was aggressive in the house with other dogs and I had no idea how she'd react outside with other dogs, so I kept on a lead and tried to avoid busy areas. Some eejit let their JRT run up to her barking and when I asked him to get it away he called "It's okay, she wants to play" That might well be, but my dog does not want to play, it wants to kill your dog.
I have this too, my cocker bitch is fine unless approached at speed by another dog. There is a lady by me with a lab that 'just wants to play' I have asked her repeatedly to get her dog away from mine explaining why, she just says well it may teach him if he gets bitten
My dog is old and has sore joints, he really does not appreciate younger dogs jumping all over him so I always pop him back on a lead around other dogs, it doesn't mean I stop walking him around other dogs though. Why should it? He is a calm dog who comes when called. He has as much right to be out for a walk as your dog does.
Everything that Cuebill said. YABVU.
Your dog should not be running of bothering other people (or other dogs) uninvited. Many dogs get defensive if they are on the lead and approached by off-lead dogs, but she may not want to let her dogs off, or may feel that their recall is not good enough, or one of them may be recovering from an injury and under a gentle exercise program.
There are any number of reasons why she doesn't want to let her dogs off the lead and you are being rude to think your dog has the right to go running up to hers.
She should not be in effect 'banned' from the park just because you cannot control your dog, hers were under control.
What everyone else has said is right. I have a pup that won't yet recall from other dogs so he is on a lead unless I've checked with the owners of a dog that they are okay to play with a puppy.
Mine aren't dog aggressive but even still sometimes I don't want them to be approached on lead as we are training or in a hurry. To be blunt, it's very difficult to train pup to recall from other dogs when people like you who can't be bothered to do it let their dogs bound over!
There have been so many threads lately about this same issue and I agree with everyone else who says you need to have better control if your dog is off lead. Why should somebody have to standstill so you can catch your dog ? It's very much like the woman a few weeks ago who told me not to throw my ball because if her dog got it she wouldn't get it back! Lots of terriers have poor recall ,my Patterdale is not too bad, but because of this you have to be very selective about where you let them off .
I'm with everyone else here. 'Friendly' dogs that will not leave my on-lead dog alone are exactly the type to make him very un-friendly indeed. Plus undo weeks of training trying to improve his dog-on-dog interactions. My dog doesn't do 'play', he just doesn't and I don't think ever will. He finds it at best annoying and at worst threatening.
Argh: this was me yesterday.
Foolishdog is Spaniel who is very tolerant of dogs when she is off lead in that she will say hello then likes to move on. She is not "playful" but gentle unless really provoked. On the lead she will say hello but needs to move away if the other dog is too interested.
She is 1 week on from being spayed. We took her for a brief on-lead walk around the park at a good pace. She was jumped all over by an off lead border terrier, her owner was calling him/her but did not retrieve the dog. I had stood still for him to collect the dog but he "couldn't" get the lead on (wasn't trying that hard IMO) then I brought my dog to him so he could get his dog off, he didn't, then I walked away quickly at this point my spaniel was snapping and growling and sounding very fierce. As I left the park the man said to me...aggressive dogs like that shouldn't be out without a muzzle, and a nearby parent agreed that "dangerous dogs" are a terrible thing and should be PTS or kept on private land .
I have spent months working with my dog who has (had) mild fear aggression...he clearly had spent no time thinking about recall, control or politeness.
I am still shaky and wobbly about their comments and feel I can't return to the park.
I am very lucky to have wonderful dog walkers, unfortunateley the woman suffers with her nerves and freaks when other dogs are around, I have told her I can walk my own dog now and as I don't even pay her feel really bad at times when She tells me about incidents She has, where my dog will go to play with others and due to her panicing my dog gets all protective over her!!!
Her husband on the other hand, walks my dog off the lead an never has any problems with her being aggressive as he is calm.
They are amazing, and have gotten so attached to my dog that I now think I just house their dog haha, they buy food, wash bedding, buy collars etc, and have also added her onto their pet insurance (they have cats at home, I suspect this is the reason I house their dig haha)
its a weird set up but they are amazing, and no idea how to thank them apart from saying thank you over and over.
Oh fool that is awful. My Springer can be aggressive and I have had people with similar reactions - when they are unable to control their dog. One mad woman said I should have him put down because he had tried to bite her - he hadn't, he wasn't pulling to get at her, but to her dog who was barking and barking at him.
Lots of sympathies foolonthehill. That's just the sort of scenario I worry about and I can totally relate to it making you feel shaky and wobbly. Hope you feel better very soon. I too have spent a long time working on my reactive dog (and on myself as I'd got very anxious too) and that's just the type of incident that would set us both back and upset me hugely
Oh fool I have a fearful dog who hates other dogs. He, too, would have reacted the way yours did. You weren't in the wrong at all. Your dog was on lead and under control.
Actually, this whole thread has made me feel better. You are responsible for your own dog. You can't expect other people to make endless exceptions and tolerate your dog winding up theirs. A bad encounter with another dog sets training back, sometimes by months. The only correct response when your dog is showing you up is to retrieve it and apologise profusely.
Ha! And now I see Exit, Floral and gym have already got here We are the Bastard Dog Club You can join us, Fool, and we can all douse ourselves in gin as we recount the horror that is walking a Bastard Dog.
Your dog shouldn't approach on lead dogs.
I have to keep NewDog on lead at the moment as he is very dog aggressive. We are working on it but I would be furious if a dog came running up to him, especially a dog with no recall.
The person was trying to take the dog away from the situation but instead had to stand still until you managed to catch up with your dog.
There would be no playing if your dog approached NewDog off lead. He would want to fight it. And making us stand still whilst you walked over to catch your dog wouldn't be an option I'm afraid.
Dogs with no recall shouldn't be off lead with on lead dogs.
I was lucky enough to only have that once when I was training Devil Dog, he quickly got a reputation as the meanest dog in the park, so people avoided us, which suited us just fine
When whippy went through a fear phase otoh Someone actually let their dog come up to her and start sniffing her mouth while I was desperately shovelling hotdogs in to try and distract her. When she eventually snapped I was told I should not take my dog out in public if I can't control her
I found looking at my dog, sitting nicely by my side now she had a distance she felt safe with and then at his still straining to come and 'play' said more than words ever could . I muzzled her after that. Oddly people avoid muzzled dogs and keep their own dogs away
<joins the bastard dog owner club>
I currently have one that can't go off lead around other dogs, one that is a teenage rebel and one that would actually prefer not to walk at all and has to be coaxed out with sausage.
I did used to walk my two dogs, one was large and I used a halti to controle him, this went over his nose so when he started to pull it tightened till he slowed and then it would slacken,
this got mistaken for a mussel at times, he was never aggressive but when on the lead and was being pestered by another dig he wud eventually bark, a warning to get lost. The amount of times I asked other walkers nicely to get their dog, or walked over to owner so they cud do something was unreal, i wud explain that my dog was getting annoyed, an that he will bark an then I would get told to sort my pet out when he did. I do feel for u lot who have dogs with issues , sone people are just lazy and ignorant an they see dogs as stupid animals..they ain't,
happy to join bastard dog club..., need some of DOoin's attitude!
Right <runs off to start thread>
OOOH how exciting, I've never been in a mn club before <runs off to find thread>
Oh fool please don't avoid the park because of those idiots. SpicyDog has the patience of a saint with other dogs and loves them but even she will growl if one jumps all over her on lead. Happened this week, difference being the lady apologised profusely for not being able to call him off and that is what BT owner should have done.
If something happens like this again I would have something prepared to say along the lines of "she is not aggressive, but she dislikes rude dogs jumping all over her and is trying to tell him to get off. She is under control, you are breaking the law not having your dog under control and I suggest you keep yours on a lead so it cannot harass others."
Oh I am not polite when people mess with my dogs, especially if it is blatantly obvious that we are doing on lead training and are trying avoid other dogs.
It's because I seem to attract clueless nutters, whose only mission in life is to wind me up, so I got thick skinned very quickly. I have been 'reported to the RSPCA' twice now for cruelty, once for letting my cat come and go as he pleases and once for doing bike joring with Devil Dog. They never turned up either time, which is a shame because I had a few things I wanted to discuss with them
Heartstart you have got a little bit of a tongue lashing. Until you have had a fearful/ dog on dog aggressive dog it can be very hard to understand how upsetting having all your hard work destroyed in just a few moments by a lose dog.
I lost my fearful dog 9 years ago so of the incidents that happened with her still make me tearful now. I am very lucky with mobile mop in that he is a very sociable little dog who would play with anyone, however, I am very very respectful of other people walking their dogs and only allow him to run and play with other loose dogs.
I feel left out. Is there anyone who wants to join me in a club for owners of the dogs straining to play with the bastard dogs that are telling them to fuck off? I tell you it's almost as bad as walking a bastard dog and some bastard dog owners give me dirty looks even though they are on leads.
The best is when bastard dog owner apologises for bastard dog going mad at mine and I apologise for over friendly dog trying to get over to them and we end up in a stand off while both of us try unsuccessfully to get our dogs (on leads) to move on. I guess what I'm saying is cut us some slack as we may be trying to train over friendly mutt to respect bastard mutt as hard as you are trying to train bastard mutt not to be reactive
Oh, I'm always very understanding unless the other owner becomes aggressive. Dogs misbehave, it happens to the best of us, and most owners to be fair are doing their best. I only really lose the plot if I'm asking the other owner to remove their dog, they can't/don't, and then have the audacity to blame me. Even then, though, I still end up plodding home feeling shitty because my Bastard Dog has got me in to a confrontation.
Spicy as long as your dog is on a lead it is fine.
Oh I am definitely in your club Spicy . I do my very best trying not to piss people off with my maniac mutt but he is usually swinging on lead like a loon whining at full tilt.
I do fear that one day I will be joining the bastard dog club though. He is so full on he doesn't read the signs.
Yes. SpicyDog is now trained to not run over to other dogs when off lead, but can't be off at mo because of nerves (risk of bolting) and is much much worse at ignoring other dogs when on lead. Certain ones take her fancy and she obsesses over them (they make her feel safe).
Pup is learning to recall from dogs so on lead. Has taken to sitting down when he sees another dog in the hopes it will come over to play. It's very embarassing all round, but trainer coming next week.
Oh fanof yes yes to the whine. Some people also think this and the pulling is because she wants to eat their dog so I have to use the dreaded "don't worry she only wants to say hello". She's very polite and not bouncy when she greets but gets a bit carried away with anticipation.
And the pup, well this week he became obsessed with a staffie with a big branch and flung himself against a railing with his willy out, much to the amusement of the owner.
Have we got ourselves a quiche then BastardDog Owners?
I am the screaming harpie round hear. In fact the other evening when it had snowed I could hear my shouts echoing off the surrounding hills
You have one up on me then Spicy as mine is still a ridiculous lunatic when allowed to greet...he still tries to leap all over them.
We are a quiche, Exit. We hold our clickers and treats with pride, and march furtively hoping that we don't come around a bend and find an obstacle course of bouncy labs and football games in full swing.
Oooh Chickens, you do bends? That's brave. I can manage curves by staying on the line of maximum visibility and making sure Gymdog is behind me rather than ahead, but bends are advanced stuff..
Why do the owners of off-lead, bouncy, barky dogs with absolutely no recall
and usually no poo bags always refer to their animals as "friendly"?
Nothing "friendly" about some deranged lunatic bouncing all over you while you're minding your own business walking on your lead.
I've let my puppy go up to other dogs (unless I see the owners look over in a worried way and put their dog on the lead!) so she can learn dog body language. Am I wrong to think she needs to find out she can't approach every dog by being 'told off' by a few? She's already more cautious since being growled (and stood on) at a few times so I thought it was a good thing.
My bastard dogs are scared really, unfortunately one is eleven stone! She has big nashy teeth and I have deliberately not trained her out of being a lungy nasher because she will not be reliable and her bite could be terminal for passing fluff balls.
She is, in public places, on a very short lead, we get well out of the way, yet am always having to walk off as small dogs chase us. At least I get the joy of watching their owners panic as they can't get their dog and think she will. This never used to give me joy and I would explain it was mostly all bark and I had her under control. These days I just say she is very aggressive they ought get their dog (under control). I notice they do lots of flapping whereas if I have small bastard dog and theirs is bigger they do very little apparently oblivious to how they are damaging my dog's training.
Increasingly I voice my unhappiness now they avoid the nashy owner... I don't know why people don't just day sorry and try and grab their dog.
Am completely mollified by any level of effort.
Selfrightous, I believe the best practice to be to not let pup to approach any on lead dogs unless invited. To allow approaches to off leash dogs where owners look agreeable.
Op im sure your dog is friendly but there are reasons why some dogs are on leads and that is so there owners have better control over them. My dog is friendly but being lead walked as is 2 weeks post knee surgery, so a dog that is friendly running up to say hello is most definately not appreciated by either of us. As for recall if you cannot recall it under any situation then it should not be off a lead, sorry!!
Thanks for comments, measured as always on mn :-) Take the points about nervous dogs etc what I hadn't made clear was I couldn't actually see her initially as she was behind a high hedge otherwise I wouldn't have let my dog off lead. But given that he was and he was coming til she started moving away I just think it was a bit daft for own or her dogs sake.
Interesting re comments re terriers glad its not just ours who has selective recall ability, had labs before who always came.
I think you are being unreasonable to blame her for walking there at all and then for moving away when the problem was simply your dog's recall (and I speak as someone whose dog has horrible recall when there is anything edible around, not as owner of Perfect Dog!)
Im not blaming her my dog is my call. As I said I just think she is making life difficult for herself and dogs walking them in a place where there are always lots of dogs off lead and then keeping walking when I hadn't got anywhere near dog to put onlead
Heart, she has every right to walk wherever she likes. And maybe she is walking away from you because she wants to get her reactive/ill/elderly dog away from the bouncing little fluffball that is causing it to kick off/pull its stitches/ be frightened. Training a reactive dog to be OK around other dogs is a long slow process, and weeks of work can be ruined by encounters like this.
My sympathy for you went when you said that you were chatting to your friend and thus too distracted to keep an eye on what your dog is doing down the other end of the field. It's funny how so many of the dogs with no recall seem to belong to owners who are glued to their mobile phone or klatching with their buddies. (And it's invariably these owners who are seemingly oblivious when their dog is taking a crap too, cos they are too busy texting and the dog is half a mile away).
Please take a look at the MDIF quiz - I think you will fit the bill. here
Yep your absolutely right, I allow my dog to crap anywhere why on earth shouldn't I. We haven't bothered to train him as its not natural is it. He jumps on smallchildren bites old ladies and tries to shag anyone's legs who,ll stand still long enough (that's probably what the woman was upset about thinking about it.
In addition it drives me nuts when he runs infrint of cars on a busy road, why can't people drive more carefully.
I also think its really important to anthromorphise dogs, well all pets so he sleeps in our beds, eats with us and is enjoying the sofa at moment whilst I am on the floor
Shame it has gone this way.
this happened to me last week, walking thru the fields minding our own business (2 dogs and a baby) and I see a wee dog coming our way so I put mine back on leads as some people can be touchy about German Shepherds I've noticed. The other person doesn't bother so I have one hand on a buggy another trying to hold back 2 large strong dogs, was getting really pissed off at this point so i let mine back off. My dogs are vocal and started barking and chasing the wee dog. The owner had a cheek to get annoyed at me!! but luckily the man she was with said not to worry their dog needed put in its place, i did say that the reason I put them on leads was because they are vocal and do like to chase (not to fight) but because mine were bigger and reacted I was made out the bad one!
Exit I agree.
At no point have I said or even thought she has no right to go to the park
I was not on mobile
My dog does come at call most times but is not 100% reliable so he is put on lead when we see unknown dogs
I just hadn't seen her. She was in the a blind spot.
My query was genuine and I am interested in the responses -
Interestingly DH saw same woman with her dogs today and they were jumping at kids (any not hers) outside school and she did nothing
As dog owners it would be good if we all had a bit more understanding of the issues we all face. I tried to call a cocker spaniel back tonight as it was dark and I thought it was my boy ignoring me . The
lush owner was very understanding and even Bastarddog was good tempered.
<hands out cake>
I was going type out a detailed reply, but I can't be bothered because obviously you don't see anything wrong. Says enough.
I have just re read this thread from the beginning MG suggest you do too,
I made a mistake (missed blind spot) called dog straight away, he started to come, he went back, I apologised called again he wouldn't come - he should have. I asked her to stop called again he came straight away, I was on way to put him on lead when she started to walk again, which is fair enough, he then followed her dogs, not good enough on my/his behalf. I called and asked her to stop sotha incould get him away from her dogs more quickly as soon as she did he came to my call. He never touched the other dogs or bared his teeth. I apologised again. She was very very rude.
I have also said in this thread if I had seen dogs I would have not let hm off lead.
I made a mistake, I apologised, I asked a question here about why would someone who wanted to keep dogs on lead for what ever reason would walk where there are usually numerous dogs off lead would take their dogs there.
I didn't know there were so many dogs with problems such as others have message about here. I am not convinced that her dogs were anxious so may be she was training them but I don't know.
How that makes me likely to leave my dog crap on the ground is beyond me and why people should feel ok to just have a go rather than ( as some have) explain what it is like to have an anxious dog is beyond me.
Heartstart, I'm sorry you've had a hard time. Posts in the Doghouse often don't get this many replies, so it's clearly a subject on which there are strong feelings. You even triggered the starting of a club! So hopefully in among the strong feelings, some of us have learnt a thing or two.
I've leaned something - I have a reactive dog but I have no experience with puppies or playful dogs. Until I read your post I didn't know that walking away could be seen by a puppy as an invitation to play. I've certainly tried to walk away many times! I'll remember that in future, so thanks.
I think the main reason you have taken abit of a flaming here us because your dog was loose and not responding, you blamed her, asked if YABU and got defensive and blamed her even more when you were told you were. As for her dogs jumping up, two owners being irresponsible don't make a right.
I sympathise to a point. As I said my border pup woold do exactly the same and we all make mistakes. But by standing there calling him several times you aren't taking effective action.
As soon as mine freezes I am making a dive for him and if he bolts when I have not spotted someone first then I have to bolt too, full of mortified apology. Instead of getting all defensive, dust yourself down and accept she may have had her reasons and chalk it down to experience. And just be prepared to run if a mistake happens again as your dog is your responsibility.
Heart I remember being out with my BastardDog when he was just a puppy and only recently off lead. He chased after a woman and her dog, in the snow, and I was limping after them as I was recovering from a broken heel - I couldn't climb over the stile to get to him. I was calling out pathetically hoping she would stop, but she didn't. Fortunately he came back, but I still see her now and still
hate the bitch have strong feelings of dislike. Another chap was out with is pointy dog, and he stopped and was lovely. I still see them with their new pointy dog and we have jolly chats.
There are the good ones and then there are the others.
I would have been annoyed to be honest. I am a very nervous dog walker after a few nasty experiences and keep my dogs close by on their leads. My bitch is partially blind and quite nervous so gets upset if unknown dogs run up to her while she is on lead.
I agree with others up thread that unless your dog has a cast iron recall it shouldn't be off the lead.
Exit that bitch could have been me! As I said upthread, I know a bit now about reactive dogs but nothing about puppies. I didn't know until reading this thread that walking away could make things worse. I've always walked away (as fast as I can) from any dog who is paying us too much attention.
Nowadays I very much hope I would notice if an owner was struggling and act accordingly, but at the end of last year I was so anxious after attacks on my dog and being bitten myself that if I saw another dog all I could do was get away as fast as I could. It was not a good time! I can see from this thread I am very much not the only one.
Fortunately Gymdog and I are both much improved now but we're still a work in progress!
My dog was walked on a lead for a few weeks after an op - you couldn't see anything wrong with her initally but bloody annoying when other dogs came up and started playing - don't mind the odd 'good day sniff'.
I walked her in places where other dogs were off lead - why not ?
Also a big bug bear of mine is when dogs follow us and try to play with mine but she is clearly not interested - but owner makes no attempt to call it back ( too busy on mobile phones )
Don't start me on dog walkers who are too busy on their phone to take any notice what their bloody dog is doing !
I am lucky as I can take my nervous of strange people and dogs for a walk - on the lead though as has no recall-< breed standard, but non aggressive, non bouncy, no hunting instincts> and is very small, where I meet no other dogs. Funny though, she wants to play with cats, but they don't with her.
One day I took her out a little earlier than usual and met 2 owners with friendly dogs. She dropped her tail between her legs , moved backwards and started trembling. Owners 2 men, just smiled and said she'd get used to it in time. One thought she was a puppy, but she's 2 years old - just a small furry sweet thing.
I could never let her off the lead as walk her by a canal, and seems interested in playing with the ducks. And ignores all my commands as if she is deaf.
Does understand a high pitched "OIH" and a sharp NO. But that's it.
Took dog to rugby today he had a ball - on lead all the time I hasten to add.
Gymmummy I know what you mean, we can all react in different ways, but the great thing about MN is it teaches us about what others might be going through.
More love and understanding and less shouting....
I have a dog and person nervous 8 month old pup who with great help from me, my daughter and our dog trainer is slowly becoming more confident around other dogs (but not people).
We were out walking him yesterday (off lead- his recall is very good as he doesn't like to go far due to being so nervous and always comes back straight away when called). He was happily minding his own business with his nose down, tail up busy but relaxed when he was set upon by a really nasty snarling, growling and snappy dog. Luckily no blood was drawn from my pup but he was a nervous wreck when the dogs owner eventually managed to pull his dog off mine, he had to be pulled off as wasn't responding to his owner. Said dogs owner said sorry and walked off, he didn't even hang around to make sure our pup was uninjured. Fortunatly this dog owners walking buddies stopped to make sure that we and our pup were fine.
I really wish that having been on the receiving end of my dog being attacked, that if people don't trust their dogs to respond straight away to recall that they keep them on a lead in places where other dogs are being walked.
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