Puppy has been brought back for the second time.

(58 Posts)
Greymalken Fri 23-Nov-12 21:34:01

We had a litter, we managed to get homes for all of them bar one that we decided to keep. One of the families brought their dog back to us to be brought on whilst their daughter went through her transfer test. We brought the pup on for about 3 to four weeks. They picked their pup up on Sunday. The pup is now back along with all the paperwork, toys, food and bowls. Less than a week the mother cites health issues for bringing the dog back, a dog which was meant to be her daughters pet. The daughter is distraught and in floods of tears and now we have the pup back again. He is a really good dog house broken, good on walks and very friendly he has no issues. I find myself annoyed by this turn of events. I'm very sorry of the daughter does anyone have any advice?

Kormachameleon Fri 23-Nov-12 21:36:48


Don't breed any more dogs

And be grateful that they brought it back to you rather than put it on Facebook/ free ads / gum tree

Or dumped it in the pound

Lougle Fri 23-Nov-12 21:39:01

What's a transfer test?

lisad123 Fri 23-Nov-12 21:41:08

I agree, this is common. People take on puppies not knowing the full extent of commitment.
What sort of puppy is he? Will you keep him?

Ullena Fri 23-Nov-12 21:43:51

To clarify, our dog was bred without our consent, and we were not informed until she was too far along to prevent the pregnancy. I have posted about that here before. She is being spayed this week, but thank you so much for your knee jerk reply...

I already have a lifetime return agreement with each owner, and just feel sorry for the DD who was in bits...

Ullena Fri 23-Nov-12 21:47:45

I went over the amount of care needed, even pointed them to local shelters and training clubs so they could talk to other people with dogs before they decided on getting one.

He is a labrador collie cross. We are not rehoming him this side of xmas anyway.

I would be pleased that he was brought back to you and not dumped/sold via free ads or cruelly treated.

I really would not be annoyed. Less traumatic for the poor dog to be brought back quickly.

Ullena Fri 23-Nov-12 21:55:33

I think it was the fact that they were on the phone yesterday arranging to meet up for walks with us, and then today no longer wanted him that got to DH. I sort of expect people to act like this, tbh...have yet to be surprised, sadly.

Pup is happy enough.

Now tell me not to keep him...

He is better off with you then- they sound flakey . You keep him grin

spudballoo Fri 23-Nov-12 21:57:06

Who are we talking to? Ullena or Greymalken? Do you have two logins? Either way, I'd just be grateful that the puppy came back to you. Who cares what the DD thinks or what a transfer test is? If they weren't really in a position to take on a puppy why did they, and why did you let them?

Here's hoping that you find a more responsible second home for the puppy.

Good point- I didn't notice thatconfused

Ullena Fri 23-Nov-12 22:03:50

Talking to us both - Graymalkin is my DH!

The family assured us that they had time for a puppy: wife was SAHM, husband had had dogs all his life, they signed up to a training club, loved to go walking, oh and had no medical issues that prevented owning a dog when they took him on...that part was only mentioned later.

lisad123 Fri 23-Nov-12 22:07:25

What a pain! Collie lab x is bound to be hard work, but hopefully he is only one to come back

Ullena Fri 23-Nov-12 22:10:13

Toughasoldboots - yes, flaky is the word. But the DD was very upset and we felt sorry for her. Not fair to get your kid a pet and then return it.

Plus, they initially wanted to take him at 12 weeks. I said fine. Then they decided they could manage to care for pup and support DD through transfer test (11+) so took pup at 8 weeks. They returned him to be run on after ten days - needed more time to focus on DD and her exam. Which was again, fine. I took the opportunity to teach him to sit and to work on his toilet training.

So they took him home at 12 weeks. And were keen to go on walks together, etc. Then out of the blue, decided not to keep him. Hence tearful goodbye. Not nice to witness.

We are glad to get him back, there was never any question of him being sent to a shelter as far as we were concerned, etc. But it just seems crummy...

Ullena Fri 23-Nov-12 22:13:41

Lisa123, thanks, yes lots of energy, but not as much as his dad! All the other owners are perfectly happy with their pups but then they are all used to active dogs. Several have children too, btw.

I turned a lot of people down - am cross at myself for saying yes to this family.

wannaBe Fri 23-Nov-12 22:23:37

tbh I think the op is being given a hard time unfairly.
if someone was posting here that they'd taken backk a puppy not once but twice they would be slated for it and rightly so.

Op if you're not planning to breed the dog again then put it down to bad experience and just be glad that they didn't abandon the dog. but yanbu to be annoyed...

Ullena Fri 23-Nov-12 22:31:56

Wannabe, thanks. I don't think DH is coming back on...

I know what it's like when your parents buy you a puppy and then take it back, my DM made a habit of it sad So it was less shocking for me. DH comes from a family who never give up on any animal. It's part of what I love about him. So he's really annoyed that anyone would do this. He's sitting cuddling both Returned Puppy and Runty Puppy at the moment grin

Ullena Fri 23-Nov-12 22:33:31

Yes, our dog is being spayed this week. The dad has already been done, but no chances are being taken!

Quodlibet Fri 23-Nov-12 22:38:13

Might it be worth contacting any of the other families who applied and explaining the situation? What a flakey thing to do - but at least the owners realised early on that they werent cut out for dog ownership, and then were able to return to you - probably the least-worst scenario all round.

Ullena Fri 23-Nov-12 22:45:47

Quodlibet, we have a facebook page where everyone meets up and posts updates. I put training tips and reminders for jabs, wormer etc up. I have informed the rest of the families that the pup is back. Didn't like to rant on there as seems impolite...and that's what anonymous forums are for grin

My vet is going to help us rehome him. Now to get onto the microchip company and be run in circles for days trying to change ownership details back to us...arghh!

Ullena Fri 23-Nov-12 22:47:14

Sadly the families I turned down are not suitable homes, that is why they were refused.

Greymalken Fri 23-Nov-12 23:05:21

Both pups are now asleep on the sofa next to me. I needed some time to think things over. The transfer test is the 11 plus or whatever it is called these days. The mum is booked in for spaying. I was always taught to never give up on anything so it came as a bit of a shock to me.

Sorry to hear that Ullena. I remember your tale from the puppy thread of how the puppies came about. Must be hard when you have bent over backwards to try and make right a situation that wasn't of your making.

I hope you get your pup settled soon. Shame that people aren't always what they seem.

IllageVidiot Sat 24-Nov-12 06:26:31

sad situation for poor pup going hither and yon and their poor daughter. However as said, he's back in a safe and secure environment and because he's with you you can make sure he is a well mannered and brought up young man.
He'll be happy as Larry which is the main thing!
Expensive decision landed on you there by whoever decided to do this for you angry and thank goodness it resulted in a healthy bitch and litter - I haven't seen your thread, will try and find, but I would have been incandescent.

I'm not surprised, but it never ceases to frustrate me that people are so rubbish.
Still, while not much consolation, it could have been worse - our middle dog is a giant breed who was privately rehomed and then sent to rescue and returned a total of 9 times - he had spent much of his first year locked in a shed because he grew too big and bar about 8 months the rest of it in a rescue kennel, he was in a bad way. I also know lots of breeders and many of them have found out second hand, out of the blue their puppy is gone with no heed paid to all the paperwork signed, it's horrible to wonder how that dog is and have no idea if they are in a loving home, everyone makes a judgement call though and if the family seem like the right people, give you good answers, interact well with the puppy, pass the homecheck and you don't get a gut feeling then what more can you possibly do? Hope you find the family he deserves, I expect the other lot will do it again to someone else if they hadn't already before you. Not the best example is it?!

Rhinestone Sat 24-Nov-12 07:21:37

How on earth can your dog be bred without your consent??

You should have had her spayed before anyway. Yes, the people who returned the puppy are quite rubbish.

MerryCunnyFuntingChristmas Sat 24-Nov-12 15:20:51

Are you the poster whose puppy got pregnant at the boarding kennels? Or are you a different one?

Ullena Sat 24-Nov-12 15:24:22

Rhinestone, we were invited to a christening. We were gone for three days. A close "friend" was being paid to housesit and care for our dogs, one of whom was in heat. This "friend" decided that it was:

a) Perfectly fine to have them all in one room together (despite the fact that we had told them under no circumstances to do so, as the male was too young to be neutered but old enough to do the deed, and one of the females was not yet spayed)
b) Only natural for them to mate
c) Not neccessary to inform us of this

So it is all too possible for this to happen. Given that we had managed for every previous season to keep her away from any male dog, including our own (large, fenced garden, dog run, dog gates and close supervision, etc), we thought that all would be well. The "friend" just felt that they would make lovely puppies apparently angry

Although they didn't want one, or to help with rearing them. Or to help with the vet bills - that was too much, I insisted they help pay for the emergency c-section and come and see the state our poor bitch was in because of their idiocy.

Anyhow, the vet is helping us to find him a new home, and we have had some interest from members of our extended family, so just have to get on with it now!

Ullena Sat 24-Nov-12 15:25:44

Ironically, Merry, we decided against using a kennels in case this happened!

Ullena Sat 24-Nov-12 15:28:50

Thanks fan and illage. I have my details on the microchips for all of them as the breeder, along with the owners details.

Why is no one telling me not to keep him?

'Given that we had managed for every previous season to keep her away from any male dog'

So she had been old enough to be spayed for quite some time then. And you didn't.

MerryCunnyFuntingChristmas Sat 24-Nov-12 16:17:39

So your "friend" took it upon themselves to breed your dogs?? shock I am angry on your behalf! I would be furious if anyone ever did this to me. Hopefully it never should though as I plan on only getting rescue dogs.

ArkadyRose Sat 24-Nov-12 16:26:13

Ullena I'm surprised your vet didn't point out to you that a bitch can be spayed whilst pregnant if you don't want the litter. Bit of a moot point now, mind you, but it could certainly have been done.

SpicyPear Sat 24-Nov-12 16:35:26

I do hope this "friend" is now an ex-friend. I'm just shock at their behaviour.

Anyway, I will tell you not to keep him if you like. Well, at least google littermate syndrome before you make any decision.

Cuebill Sat 24-Nov-12 16:56:58

You left your bitch in heat with an entire male and feel comfortable to blame other people for their actions...............<hides thread>

Greymalken Sat 24-Nov-12 17:25:50

Katherine our vet wasn't willing to neuter her for health reasons. Yes an exfriend thought it would be nice (they secretly wanted a puppy) the cost of our dogs vet bills has put them off and it looks like the wee pup will be a gun dog. I know a licensed hunter who is looking for a new gun dog.

lifeistooshorttodrinkcheapwine Sat 24-Nov-12 17:43:11

oh dear what a problem for you, it can understand how upset you must feel about this and you have my sympathies. Hope you find a good home for him, I'd have him myself if i hadn't already got two black labs already.

Ullena Sat 24-Nov-12 17:50:14

I left my male collie in the house with free access to the front garden and walks daily. I left the eldest spayed female indoors with him, and the unspayed female in a completely closed over, roofed, 20' x 40' dog run. (She was to be given access to the rear garden twice daily with the older spayed female for company.)

Collie has since been neutered, female is being spayed on Friday. Finally, after years of struggling to get her weight down to a point where sedation isnt a serious health risk. She came to us as an extremely obese dog at six months old. Vet refused to spay her until she had had lost a good deal of weight. Which for a long time seemed to be an impossible task...

Ullena Sat 24-Nov-12 18:01:16

I wish the vet had mentioned the spay during pregnancy as an option. Yes, I do love the pups, but this is something we didnt want to do.

I'm just going to say thanks to everyone who isnt blaming us for this. Runty Pup will be neutered at six months, Returned Pup too if he is still here. I had left off neutering my collie until he was 18 months as I had been told that his growth plates needed time to close over. Consider me as kicking myself, blaming myself, and rest assured that I will never trouble any of the rescues with this.

There are some posters on here who clearly have never been let down by someone they trusted. Lucky them. No need to be so superior over it! Yes, we screwed up royally. And we were let down. We dealt with it.

The point of this thread wasnt a pity party for us, it was a question: why put a child through that? Why get your DC a pet, then take it back temporarily, bring it home again, and then take it back just as the DC starts bonding with it?

It seemed rather unfair to both the child and the puppy. That is all.

DoggerDog Sat 24-Nov-12 18:32:55

I don't think anyone is being superior just amazed that you have your judgey pants on when maybe your actions have caused the situation in the first place.

A child being slightly disappointed or a dog having to go through pregnancy are not really on the same level.

BeerTricksPott3r Sat 24-Nov-12 18:44:50

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IllageVidiot Sat 24-Nov-12 19:01:58

I don't think it is unreasonable to expect a trusted friend, fully aware of the needs of the dogs, who has agreed to this task to keep to their side of the bargain. If OP had not told them of the needs and made suitable provisions then the situation would have been of their own making.

Also while fine to question why an of age bitch was not spayed - having had an answer that was clearly due to veterinary advice that should be enough. This bitch has not been with them since a pup and even a young dog can have serious morbidity or mortality or a whole host of complications due to surgery that is elective while being morbidly obese. There are still health benefits to be gained from spaying until a relatively mature age - it is not ureasonable to expect the clinical decision to be waiting until the bitch is in suitable health for surgery, with a weight loss plan, and spaying her before middle age rather than risk her life either peri or post op. But yes, a dead dog wouldn't have been able to have puppies, it's true. She needed a c-sec - I wouldn't be surprised if that was necessary to due being overweight too. And while it is possible to spay a bitch while pregnant, at any stage, due to maternal health and the need to euthanise the puppies in utero I know several vets that won't do this - it is their choice to refuse.

OP is making the best out of a bad situation. Responsibly caring for the puppies , has homed them well in every case but one and is trying again with this one (I probably would keep him, but I'm a soft sod!) - if more people acted with their pet's best interests at heart there wouldn't be the problems there are. It strikes me as a little unfair to be rude to an OP doing what more people should do - take responsibility.
Also, I'm sorry your friend turned out to be such a dipshit.

DoggerDog Sat 24-Nov-12 19:11:35

If being spayed was a health risk a pregnancy would have been an either bigger one.

She is making the best of the situation (which could have been totally avoided) but is judging others and getting the humph when she herself is judged confused

IllageVidiot Sat 24-Nov-12 19:22:15

True Dogger - but you can only do something about it if you know. I imagine as the vet hadn't discussed spaying when they found out, it wasn't on offer. To late for Alizin, no advice about termination? OP going to squeeze them out?! Hopefully her weight had reduced sufficiently by then - as she's being spayed Friday I imagine she's not ideal but now much safer.

I would, and did and do judge people like the family that returned the puppy, it callous, shallow and thoughtless.
I would be angry and harshly judge the friend I thought I could trust to look after my dogs if they did something like this.
She made perfectly adequate provisions for the bitch to be well cared for without risk. She was going to a Christening - I would go if my bitch was in season and I had a separate living area for her. OP is not psychic, although I am amazed said friend had not given any indication of being such a ridiculous fool previously tbf.

abitcoldupnorth Sat 24-Nov-12 19:49:33

How/why on earth was your dog 'bred' without your permission?

btw our vet spays pups as soon as she can get her mitts on them, so well before their first season.

Good grief - the OP did not purposely breed her dog - in fact she took very rigorous-sounding measures to ensure the in-heat bitch and entire dog didn't get together. It was the idiot friend who deliberately undermined this, going against ALL the OP's instructions! So maybe people could stop giving the OP a hard time.

OP - I understand why you are cross about this.

midori1999 Sat 24-Nov-12 19:53:46

I think OP that you need to stop blaming others for your mistakes. When you breed a litter of puppies, whatever the reason, you need to ensure the right homes and realise that people lie. Of course, the people who took the puppy were very much in the wrong, but alarm bells would have rang for me when they wanted you to take the puppy back during the run up to their DDs exam. Be cross with yourself as much as them.

I also think you need to accept responsibility for your bitch becoming pregnant. She's your responsibility and if she was too overweight to be spayed (I'm failing to see how a bitch can remain so overweight for several seasons, so at least 12-24 months, tbh) then she is too overweight to safely have a litter. I own entire bitches and there is no way on this earth I would leave anyone else to be responsible for them while they are in season, no matter what. That is the responsibility that comes with owning entire bitches.

Abut old - the OP had to go away, and left a 'friend' looking after the dogs, with strict instructions about keeping the on heat bitch in her run, and not, under any circumstances, letting the entire dog anywhere near her. The 'friend' secretly wanted a puppy, thought they would make pretty puppies, so let the two dogs get together, and didn't even tell the OP that they had mated, so she could have done something about it in time.

Both dog and bitch were awaiting neutering/spaying, but hadn't yet been done for good reasons.

Quodlibet Sat 24-Nov-12 20:33:49

I think people are being harsh on the OP too. If it was a different situation - say the friend had let a dog off the lead after being instructed not to, and caused a fight, or had left a gate open and allowed a dog in the road to get hit by a car would it still be the OP's fault? She has by the sounds of it done what she could in the circumstances and whilst hindsight might be a wonderful thing I find it uncomfortable when people who are clearly trying to do the very best for their animals get jumped on for any perceived lapse in exemplary pet-keeping practice.

DoggerDog Sat 24-Nov-12 22:13:34

There are just too many excuses.
It does not take years to get weight off a dog.
She had an entire male and bitch and left them in the same premises. There are so many options to have prevented this, stay at home, have the dogs looked after separately, castrate male dog, christenings always give notice etc etc

She cocked up and is a backyard home breeder and has no idea about homing the puppies. She cares more about a child being disappointed but doesn't seem to give a dam for the welfare of the dogs.

She has to face up to her responsibilities - she is not even finding a new home herself but passing the buck onto the vet.

I have no time for people who do not accept their part in a situation but feel free to blame others.

Harsh maybe but so is the fact that 100's of thousands of dogs are put to sleep every year in this country alone but ha ho as long as the OP burys her head in the sand and does not accept responsibility for her actions that is fine.

IllageVidiot Sat 24-Nov-12 22:17:20

She cares more about a child being disappointed but doesn't seem to give a dam for the welfare of the dogs.

I do not see this at all and I suggest you have issues that are clouding your reading of the OP and your responses.

Neither do I, Illage. I see a responsible dog owner, who did her best, but was sabotaged by her so-called friend.

AllOverIt Sun 25-Nov-12 18:06:09

I also think the OP is getting a hard time.

Tooloudhere Sun 25-Nov-12 18:30:13

I think op being got at bit much too. It seems on here unless you have a rescue dog that you have saved you are not regarded as a proper dog owner and are the scum of the earth for promoting dogs to be bred.

Nobody wants to see animals mistreated or abandoned but everyone is not suited nor able to take on rescues.

I feel from what I have seen the op is trying to make good a situation and tried to home the puppies responsibly it would be nice if every thread didn't turn into a crusade.

EddieVeddersfoxymop Sun 25-Nov-12 18:42:57

STDG I agree. OP sounds like a responsible owner with an idiot for a friend. We couldn't have our eldest cat spayed until she was nearly 1 year old....our vets would not do it due to her being the runt and teeny tiny. So, we kept her indoors until such time as she was neutered. OP was in the same situation....her dogs were not neutered on veterinary advice, the idiot friend decided to ignore her instructions re keeping them apart - how can she possibly be in the wrong here?

OP, good luck getting returned pup rehomed, or keeping him yourself grin

DoggerDog Sun 25-Nov-12 18:57:14

The Op is getting a so called hard time because she felt it completely fine to slag off someone who behaved responsibility.

The new owner could not deal with the pup for whatever reason so did the correct thing of returning to the breeder. (something that seemed to surprise her- she could have any of the dogs returned to her over the next 11 years of their lives - she needs to man up to this breeding lark)

The OP thought this was out of order which is brilliant considering she was involved in her dog being breed accidently and was aware that this could happen. However did not take sensible precautions to prevent this.

I do understand that it is "only a dog" <sarcasm alert here> and who gives a shit if the dog is breed against veterinary advice, there are now puppies that need rehoming. Ok she may now have stepped up to the mark but the fact that she feels it ok to slag of others is just out of order.

Her primary concern is a child's disappointment, which will have been forgotten about now probably, over puppies who she will need to be responsible for life. Puppies that will not have been health tested as it was an unplanned pregnancy, puppies that could have issues health and behavioural for life and a bitch that had to go through a pregnancy that was not fit for.

Those of you who do not know what you are talking about really need to look into dog welfare and the state of back yard breeders, the pain, angst of unwanted dog pregnancies in the country. But then again lets side with the OP confused she did nothing wrong at all shock

midori1999 Sun 25-Nov-12 19:31:10

I actually don't think the person the OP slagged off was behaving responsibly, she may have returned the puppy to its breeder, but she is clearly a thoughtless twat, as is anyone else who decides a few days or a week or so into puppy ownership that it's a bit too much hard work and they have other commitments.

Then again, I don't think the OP is really a responsible owner either. A bitch allowed to remain so overweight that she couldn't be spayed for years? Leaving an in season bitch in the charge of another person? I don't even leave my husband in charge of my in season bitches. Avoiding pregnancy is essential and as such it's pretty important to assume everyone else is a complete fuckwit.

I know loads of people with entire dogs and bitches in the same household and not one of them has had an 'accidental' litter. Accidental litters occur from careless owners, they're not that accidental at all.

LadyTurmoil Sun 25-Nov-12 22:27:07

I think a lot of people are being a bit too judgemental. As Ullena explained in this and other threads, it was an accidental mating, she tried her best to prevent it but it happened. Jeez, it's not the end of the world. Also, to say "Her primary concern is a child's disappointment, which will have been forgotten about now probably" is an extremely unsympathetic thing to say - that girl has not forgotten and is still really sad about it, I'm sure. I've known children where this has happened and it does have a long-term effect. The pup, on the other hand, has quite happily been in someone else's house for a week and probably doesn't give a damn that it's been returned "home". A little perspective please. Good luck Ullena and Greymalken

Ullena, I hope the harsh responses on here won't put you and your DH off Mumsnet forever! Somehow, things are always more judgmental and rude on here than even in AIBU! Personally I think you sound so lovely, and did absolutely nothing wrong, your dogs are very lucky to have you.

The Doghouse is a scary place.

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