Designer breed question

(13 Posts)
kelda Tue 19-Apr-16 16:23:10

Stupid question of the day. So how do you make a designer breed labradoodle, cockerpoo etc?

Do you need two labradoodles to make a labradoodle or do you always need pure bred labradors and poodles? Which has to be the poodle etc, the male/female?

Same goes for cavapoos, cavachons etc.

How many generation before they are considered a distinct breed?

georgedawes Tue 19-Apr-16 17:27:22

None of those are recognised breeds, they're all crossbreeds. I think there are different terms though for 1st and 2nd and so on generations. I think labradoodles probably have the longest history though, someone correct me if wrong!

pigsDOfly Tue 19-Apr-16 18:03:48

I think labradoodles were first bred in the 50s and they're still not recognised as a breed. I imagine this is because which ever way you breed them you will are not guaranteed to get a particular type of dog. either in appearance or temperament.

Might happen in hundred years or so that you end up with a particular look for a labradoodle but I imagine it would take a very specific breeding programme.

TheoriginalLEM Tue 19-Apr-16 18:06:39

They are crossbreeds and people who pay ££££ for these dogs are getting ripped off and adding to the problem of back yard breeding.

kelda Tue 19-Apr-16 18:54:37

So just any old spaniel and poodle?

TrionicLettuce Tue 19-Apr-16 18:57:36

The vast majority of "designer" dogs are first crosses so labrador x standard poodle, CKCS x Bichon, cocker x miniature poodle, etc. These straight crosses are known as F1s, so an F1 labradoodle is a cross between a labrador and a poodle. An F2 labradoodle would be the offspring of two F1 labradoodles, an F3 the offspring of two F2s and so on. It gets a bit more complicated when breeders start back crossing (breeding a cross back to one of the two parent breeds), for example a cross between an F1 labradoodle and a poodle would be an F1b labradoodle.

There's a couple of good little diagrams explaining it better than I am here and here.

Most breeders of "designer" crosses seem to focus on breeding F1 litters rather than aiming to create a new and recognisable breed.

New breeds can be created and recognised relatively quickly. The programme to create the Eurasier only began in the 1950s and it was recognised as a breed by the German Kennel Club and the FCI FCI in 1973. The Silken Windhound is another new breed which is being developed in the US, breeding began in the 1980s and they were recognised by the UKC as a breed in 2011. The breed club is also in the process of gaining recognition with the AKC and I believe the FCI as well.

TheoriginalLEM Tue 19-Apr-16 19:27:03

The vast majority of designer dogs are bred by people who don't have a clue what they are doing and are just in it for the £££££s or because they think it will be "nice" for their bitch to be mated and endure pregnancy and birth, like it is something she will miss out on. Not all "breeders" are like this, but people are tempted by the big price tags and stupid names. The guy who first developed the labradoodle as a non shedding, good tempered dog is actually on record as being mortified about the whole designer dog thing.

Why would you want to develop new breeds anyway? there are plenty of non-shedding dogs so it can't be that. Can it really be because people want a dog with a silly name?

kelda Tue 19-Apr-16 20:06:29

That's very interesting Trionic, thank you! I'm fascinated by the dynamics if it. Don't worry LEM, my dog isn't going to breed, a houseful of puppies would be my worst nightmare!

Collaborate Wed 20-Apr-16 08:01:26

Heard recently of a cross between a Bull Dog and a Shih Tzu.

Now what do you call that?!!

Booboostwo Wed 20-Apr-16 09:00:08

I remember reading an article (but can't find it sorry) about the first guy to purposefully breed labradoodles. He trained guide dogs for the blind and had some people needing guide dogs who were allergic to dogs so he hoped to create more shed-free dogs suitable for guide dog training. I have no problem with that, there was a specific need and a realistic target for a breeding programme. However, as he also regrets, this led to the ridiculous fashion of breeding cross-breeds on purpose with no controls for health, temperament or suitability for a particular job.

I completely agree that some pure breed breeders have steered their breed towards physical problems, have ignored health checks and generally deteriorated their breed, however that is not all breeders. Responsible breeders breed for the good of the breed, they do health screening, they match bitches to dogs carefully, they take responsibility for the puppies, etc.

I have no problem with a specific new breed emerging to fill a new purpose, which can certainly be to create a family friendly, cute dog. However, what is happening is that a lot of people are breeding what they think will sell for the money. Not just labradoodles, but anything doodle, and now anything with anything. It takes many generations for a good breed to emerge and be refined, what is happening now is not breeding but opportunism.

TheoriginalLEM Wed 20-Apr-16 09:23:46

dpot on booboo

TheoriginalLEM Wed 20-Apr-16 09:24:01

spot

LizzieMacQueen Wed 20-Apr-16 13:26:22

Bullshit!

Ha ha that's funny Collaborate

Think I'll nick that one to tell the kids tonight.

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