Lots of large new lumps on my poodle

[freshmint]

I found a breast lump in my 11 yo standard poodle in Nov. Had it removed, malignant but early stage and not in lymph. Found another in Jan/Feb - had it removed. Malignant, not nice, but thought they'd got it all.
Now about 6 week later she has got multiple lumps in her breast tissue - one very large, like a big conker. I'm not going to put her through more ops when it's clear this is the same thing and it's spreading.

So my question is - what can I expect? She seems well, no signs of pain, eating and drinking well, hopping up to the sofa as usual etc. How long might she have before she deteriorates? How will I know when things are getting bad?

She is such a great dog. Our last sp died in her sleep unexpectedly aged 11 so I have no experience of cancer

[freshmint]

Does anyone have any experience they can share with me please?

[Deadnettle]

I'm sorry freshmint. I have no experience of cancer in dogs so I'm just bumping this for you.

[freshmint]

Thanks deadnettle.
I just want to do the best for her and would love some idea of what to expect...

[Lonecatwithkitten]

A bit part if the prognosis is exactly which type of nastiness the lumps were and also whether she has had chest X-Ray's to check for mets. These two bits a critical for any idea of future.

[Greyhorses]

It would be impossible to give a prognosis without knowing the type and grade of the tumour and where it's spread too. If you want to know you need to get an FNA or biopsy sent to the lab and proberbly a chest xray which will give you an idea.

If that's not a route you want to go down (and im not sure I would either in an old dog) I would spoil her and just play it by ear. I always judge my own dogs on whether they are happy to eat, go for a walk and play. If they can't do 'normal' things then I PTS. If the tumours get too big and are affecting how she moves or start to rub/burst then i would also PTS at that point.
If they are growing fast it's likley they have spread.

Sorry your in this position

[freshmint]

Oh thank you very much everyone.
I was given the printout of the lab results from the last tumour removed - I can't find it right now - it was papillary? but the message was that they were nasty. The vet said if they came back again it was likely to be the end of the road. She has never had a chest X-ray.
I will give the vet a call. I feel that the end is in sight but I guess until she is looked at again we won't know when that might be. She is actually the finest dog in the world so it is all v sad. We will all be devastated. I also have one eye on my eldest dd's upcoming A level exams and that is another reason why I am wondering about timing.
Thanks for your kind words

[chocaholic73]

Sorry to see this - I have a 10 year old standard. I don't have any experience of cancer in dogs though and you really do need to talk to your vet. Providing she's comfortable and content in herself at the moment, just try to make the most of being with her.

[noddingoff]

Of course we cannot know for sure about pain, but neither mammary lumps themselves nor secondary tumours in the lungs seem to be painful.
The endpoint is usually either secondaries taking up so much lung space that the dog gets breathless so easily that it starts to affect their quality of life, or the tumours starting to rub and ulcerate as Greyhorses said. It's virtually impossible to get the skin over tumour tissue to heal once it really starts to ulcerate and that can be painful and the secondary infections and bits of dead tissue can make the dog feel quite crappy. Both of these things are usually gradual enough that you can see them coming and have time to brace yourself though.
Mammary tumours seem to be one of those things where what you see is what you get as far as the dog's quality of life is concerned - ie if the dog looks really happy at the moment, it probably is. Chest Xrays would give you some idea of spread, but our knowledge of progression and ability to predict how long the pet has left is not as well developed as human medicine so it's a bit of a guesstimate.
Sorry for your situation. I've never met a standard poodle that I didn't like - they're lovely dogs.

[freshmint]

Thank you everyone. Well she has 7 new lumps - two as big as a big conker/ping pong ball. They erent there 3 weeks ago. Vet has said he has had good results with a tamoxifen equivalent but there is a risk of side effects including pyrometra (she is unspayed) and I think given her age we are not going to go down that route. She is really enjoying this lovely weather - sitting in a sunbeam on the patio - so we will just play it by ear and take her in if and when she shows any sign of pain.
We have had a good family discussion about it so we are all on the same page and know what's coming on.
My next q is whether to take her to the groomers next week - she really needs a clip but I don't know how they will manage around all the lumps and bumps...

[chocaholic73]

Sorry she has more lumps. Assuming you have a regular groomer, may be you should have a chat with them and see what they say? It's not really an option not to clip a standard poodle at all is it but may be they could just trim her a bit, rather than give her the full works.

[freshmint]

Just an update. She had a lovely gentle shampoo and trim on Wednesday which she seemed to enjoy. Her tumours are getting really large - growing very fast. The large conker is now the size of a sort of flattened lemon. Two of the others are now conker sized or bigger. However she still seems to be in no pain, eating fine, enjoying her gentle walks, breaks into a canter when she feels like it and it spent some time sitting in the sun watching the Guinea pigs in a vain hope that they might break out of their run so she could eat them!

It is clearly very aggressive though, this cancer. Poor old girl

[freshmint]

I've just had another good look at her abdomen as she snores on the sofa next to me. The skin over her large tumour is bruised. It looks like there is some internal bleeding. Does anyone have any experience of this? Is it just part of the tumour's growth process? Should I be preparing to say goodbye?

God I hate this.

[freshmint]

Just to let you all know that she died this evening. She suddenly started shaking and her eyes went very dull and she wouldn't walk. We took her to the vet who said she had a high temperature and an infection and her breathing was very laboured and her tumours very large. So we stayed with her while she was put to sleep.
She was so lovely and so brave. What a tremendous dog. We are all heartbroken.
DDog2 is confused that we returned home without her but he doesn't know what to think yet.
Thanks for your support.

[Wilding]

Oh freshmint, sorry to hear that

It sounds like you did the right thing though, at least she wasn't in pain for long

[freshmint]

Thanks Wilding. No, I don't think she suffered hardly at all, it was all pretty quick in the end. She was such a great old girl. Kindest dog ever.

[Noitsnotteatimeyet]

I'm so sorry - it sounds like she had a fabulous life with you though

[GlitteryFluff]

So sorry op

[Abraid2]

Sorry to hear this.

[Darklane]

I've only just found your thread.
So sorry that you've lost her but you know that you did the very best for her. I think you handled it just right for her, she was comfortable up till the end then you let her go just when it was becoming hard for her.
I've been lucky to own lots of lovely dogs, I'm old, & so have had a few that had cancer at the end.

[freshmint]

Thank you very much everybody. I've been talking about it a lot with the kids and we are all unanimous that it was the right thing to do so that helps a lot. We are giving poor other dog lots of attention / he keeps looking for her

I've been offered a puppy closely related to old dog already but I think we will have to think long and hard before going there. If other dog is doing well we may keep him as an only for a while. The old girl was pretty irreplaceable...

[Fraggleface]

Sorry for your loss op. I lost my ddog on 3 weeks ago also to cancer. She managed 10 days on steroids from diagnosis to pts so was equally aggressive like your poor ddog's. So so sad and we miss her terribly, as does our ddog2, but it's comforting that it was all over so quickly. I'm dreading losing ddog2 now (they were sisters) and am not sure I could get another dog now. But maybe in the future as they really are per of the family.

[freshmint]

Oh I'm so sorry fraggle. It's awful isn't it. How is your other dog doing? How old was she? for you too

[Fraggleface]

Thanks freshmint. She'd just turned 14 which isn't a great age for a yorkie. 3 weeks on her sister still sometimes wanders round the house like she's looking for her but generally she's coping well and maybe even enjoying a little bit being the new top dog. I'm not sure how she'd react to another dog being brought into house.
It's awful though isn't it. I miss her tons.