Dog training advice please - Can't see the wood for the trees on these two issues !

[DoodlePegs]

Dog training advice please - cant see the wood for the trees on these issues !

Normally I'm quite logical, but I just can't get my head around how to retrain these behaviours.

Firstly, I want to now change dpup's toiletting habits so she only uses a certain part of the garden, rather than pooing anywhere as she currently does.
The best method would be to take her out on her lead to the required place and praise for any wee/poo that happens there. Other than that, try and not give her unsupervised garden access for a while until she has understood the new concept.
Simple yes? Anything else that would help?

[DoodlePegs]

Ok, next issue ... the sitting staring at you when you eat, and hovering around your feet / knees in the hope of persuading you that she hasn't been fed since last month, drooling and slobbering.

If she goes in her crate in a different room she barks. Would it be easiest to teach her to stay sitting on her beanbag (which is at the far side of the room) ? If so, how?!

I used the '300 pecks' method to teach walking to heel which was fairly successful. Would that work for this? Should I train her to go and stay in her bed when ever I ask randomly through the day, or as I want the sight of us sitting at the table to mean 'its beanbag time', should I only train her at mealtimes when we are at the table?

[DoodlePegs]

Sorryfor the epic length of posts. My brain really isn't working properly at the moment!

[ThenThereWereEight]

Not sure, but interested in answers!

[Gymbob]

I trained my dog not to poo in the garden at all. much easier.

the eating thing, your dog should not be fed until the family has eaten. it helps with the pecking order. the dog should be last and at the bottom of the pile. my boy lays in his bed until we have all finished and when we get up he knows it's his dinner time.

other things like making sure you go in and out of the house first reinforce the order.

it doesn't stop my boy making an appearance when he hears me slicing carrots though

[tabulahrasa]

Fencing helps with the garden...bit impractical for a lot of people though, lol.

But yes, take her to the toilet, reward her and then let her loose if you want to, it took a few weeks with mine to designate a specific place...but he is exceptionally stubborn.

Tbh I'd just work on getting her to settle in the beanbag whenever you want as it's handier to have it on cue rather than only at mealtimes, it means you can then send her there for any reason.

[Gymbob]

oh, and your dog should be trained to take to its bed whenever you give the command. if you do it every meal time for instance it will soon get the idea that's where he should be. my dog lays in his bed in our dining kitchen, just so he's not excluded, but he's more than happy as he knows he's next.

[basildonbond]

Sorry Gymbob but all that pecking order stuff is nonsense

There's loads of up to date, scientifically proven information around about what makes dogs tick so no need to keep peddling the dominance bollocks

[Gymbob]

it isn't bollocks! well it wasn't 6 years ago when he was trained by a well respected trainer. mindst you, he did have high standards, which you clearly haven't.

a dog is happiest when he knows his place. if he thinks he's higher up the pecking order it can lead to problems.

my dog is wonderful and very happy.

and anyway, why shouldn't you go out of the house before your dog, you wouldn't let your child barge past you would you?

[SukieTuesday]

positively.com/dog-training/myths-truths/pack-theory-debunked/

[tabulahrasa]

Dominance theory, pack leader and pecking order has been discredited...some trainers are still sticking with what they learned decades ago, but that doesn't change the fact that there's a much better understanding of how dogs work and better training methods available.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with having whatever manners or routine you want to with your dog, but waiting at doorways or eating after you will not fix a completely unrelated training issue nor will your dog stage a coup and try to take over your house if you don't do those things.

[Gymbob]

I love Victoria Stillwell. of course a human can't be a pack leader and dominate like a dog would.

you should be an owner and properly train your dog in obedience, otherwise your dog will dominate you. did you see the episode with the bulldog where it was bullying the teenager?

[needastrongone]

Victoria Stillwell has changed her training methods in recent times.

Dominance theory has long been discredited. I have a ream of reading material that I can back this up with that I can post if you like? However, if browse through Amazon, most of this is on there.

Indeed, the gentleman that established the theory initially has discredited it

I am not suggesting that a dog shouldn't have boundaries. But there is not need for it to be at the bottom of the 'pack' or any such thing. Dogs are not plotting world domination, given half the chance.

Doodle - could you start with giving your dog a stuffed Kong on her mat, when you guys eat. Therefore, she starts to associate your meal times with her getting good stuff, on her designated spot.

I would drop treats on the mat during the day, and praise whenever she voluntarily goes and chills out there too.

I am not on the correct device to link to helpful links. Sorry.

[Gymbob]

I have never mentioned dominance anyway. I don't dominate my dog, but I am in charge, and he has manners, which is why he lets me go into the house first.

[needastrongone]

Dominance and pack theory are very much the same thing generally.

Both of my dogs have a solid wait command. So, when it's muddy and wet, they wait until I let them into the house. This has everything to do with have a clean floor and nothing at all with 'reinforcing the order'!

As an aside, Pets at Home withdrew Cesar Milan's books from their stores last year, as his training methods, based on being the pack leader are cruel and outdated.

Training theory and methods have moved on.

[needastrongone]

Your second to last post mentions dominance, actually

[Gymbob]

no it doesn't, it mentions a pecking order. are you saying your dog comes before your children?

[Gymbob]

ah, funny, just re read

[DoodlePegs]

Thanks needastrongone and others for advice. You know when you just can't get things clear in your head.

I will try 'bed' training her in little 10 minute sessions throughout the day so she learns to go there when asked. A kong is a good idea, I hadn't thought of that.

Out of interest, what does anyone put inside kongs? Is peanut butter safe for dogs. Its quite sticky so would probably take her a while to get through. I guess the kong should only be produced for 'bed' time and not left out as a general chew thing?

[tabulahrasa]

I use raw chicken frozen inside it or wet dog food, also frozen...but my dog is firmly of the opinion that peanut butter isn't food.

[Elysianfields]

you should be an owner and properly train your dog in obedience, otherwise your dog will dominate you. did you see the episode with the bulldog where it was bullying the teenager?

you did actually say dominate....

I think few will argue manners are crucial, and that includes not pushing into the house first but waiting till you are sorted out and can deal with wet paws. But that is different from pecking order, dominance or whatever. Dogs are dogs and I think you need to understand their psyche to make it work.

[needastrongone]

I consider my dogs needs as equally as I consider my children's. That is not to say I love my dogs more than the DC, but the dogs didn't ask to be part of our family. They have a much right to have their needs considered as any one else. That's my duty, I feel at the very least. Only it's a pleasure really.

Mine had a Kong stuffed with smelly hotdog sausage and cheese today. They are being trained to ignore the new chickens so that was a high value treat.

When I'm not on the phone, again I will post a link, but anything they love really.

Freezing the long makes it last a lot longer and you get more peace!!

[needastrongone]

Ps agree. Dogs are amoral, they do what works for them, they have no sense of right and wrong. Leaving my chickens alone will ensure they get a massive piece of cheese, a big cuddle and a game, all stuff they love, they will figure it out.

[DoodlePegs]

Freezing things is a good idea, will do that. My dog is more of a dustbin than a dog. Still haven't found anything she won't eat !

[needastrongone]

Excuse the auto spellings in my posts.

Mine took a while to figure the frozen bit, they got a bit bored but figured it out after a few trys.

Minced raw food is good too. It's the only time I buy it, as it's expensive but, for filling and freezing a number of kongs, very useful.

[CarbeDiem]

I don't know about the first question as I don't have a garden but want to say that the sending to bed while you eat works. My pup doesn't often need to be told now, when she sees us carrying plates she takes herself off there. Sometimes she'll lay on floor and sneak peaks around the corner at us - or rather at the floor in the hope that we drop something there :)

I stuff kongs with her food and sometimes freeze them.
Natural yogurt is good to freeze too. Dpup is quite partial to plain ice cubes and would probably be happy if I froze water in her kong but I haven't tried yet.
I also sometimes stuff a bit boiled egg or cooked liver in the bottom to keep her interested enough to dig it out.