Red setter puppy - legitimate sale? Puppy farm?

[Singsongmama]

I've never had or bought a dog so I have no idea what is involved or should be expected in terms of meeting the animal/papers/collection etc so I would appreciate some advice from more experienced people....

My friend saw an advert on a pets website for two Irish setter puppies. They were being rehomed and were quite cheap compared to other pedigree registered puppies. I don't think they were advertised as pedigree and my friend isn't interested in breeding, she just keeps saying 'I want them to just be lovely family pets'.

So off she went and met the lady who had placed the advert in a car park on an industrial estate. (Not at their home...odd?) My friend was informed that one dog had been run over so there was only the bitch left. She said it didn't look like the picture in the advert but was a very cute little thing that looked traumatised. She felt alarm bells ringing but essentially felt she had to "save" the puppy (or rescue it - her words) so bought it and took it home there and then.

My major concerns

• the lady couldn't tell her when the puppy had been born.
  
• the lady couldn't remember if she'd had her jabs
  
• there were no papers at all
  
• the puppy didn't have any toy or blanket or anything to take away with it for comfort (not sure if this is relevant but just feel heart sorry for this poor pup)
  
• the lady didn't ask any questions about my friend/her living arrangements etc she was only interested in the money
  

Is this normal??? The whole thing makes me so sad and really uneasy. What do you think?

[TensionWheelsCoolHeels]

Sounds like a dodgy set up to me. I saw a programme the other week investigating the puppy farm stuff & not being able to see/meet the mother is a massive red flag, no paperwork another massive red flag, and no toys/blanket/comforting items from 'home' also suggests a badly treated puppy. Poor thing. The 1st thing your friend should do is get the dog checked out by a vet - problem is that'll be expensive if there are health issues from either the breeding that's gone on, or the treatment of the pup since birth.

[MothershipG]

Text book case of puppy farm at best and someone else's stolen puppy at worse.

Nothing to be done now just get your friend to take the puppy to a Vet, be honest about it and get it thoroughly checked over.

Hope it all turns out ok.

[CastilianHhhhidalgo]

Definitely not normal, or at least not normal for any kind of decent breeder. Unfortunately there are huge numbers of dodgy breeders and sellers who act as fronts for puppy farms about

I would encourage your friend to get some decent insurance in place as soon as possible, just in case. There are several health tests which should be done on Irish setters before they're used for breeding and chances are, given the situation this pup has come from, it's unlikely the parents have been tested. A poor start for the pup can also have health implications. Does the pup appear to be of an appropriate age?

[daisydotandgertie]

As dodgy as fuck.

It astounds me that people are so ill informed. It really isn't hard to do a bit of research to find out what to look for when buying a puppy. It fuels the abhorrent puppy farm industry as well as the growing problem of dog theft and it has health implications for the dog, as well as a life long impact in terms of poor socialisation.

Having said all of that, has your friend taken the pup to a vet for a check up and to establish how old it is?

[Singsongmama]

Yes I totally agree, it was completely irresponsible and I've told her that. She picked the puppy up yesterday and I spoke to her this morning. I asked when she was taking the pup to the vets and she replied ASAP. My idea of ASAP would be this morning so I'll speak to her tonight I think. I know it's not my business but it breaks my heart to think there are maybe other animals out there suffering as a result of irresponsible buying.

Castilian - she doesn't know how old the puppy is! Was advertised as 4 months, verbally told it was 12 weeks, so who knows. I hope it's been to the vets today, I really do.

[SecretNutellaFix]

Sounds like it could have been stolen.

[weaselwords]

It's a funny breed for the puppy farmers, so I'd suspect it was stolen. Poor thing.

[bakingtins]

It would have taken her about two minutes to google and find out that you always see a pup with it's mother and that how it is raised by the breeder is critical in terms of how suitable it will be as a lovely family pet
She's subsidising either puppy farming or theft of pedigree dogs, and she'll be lucky if she hasn't just bought herself a huge heap of trouble.

[hmc]

Ought to get the pup checked at the vet for a microchip (sorry is it called a microchip - that sounds wrong but my brain has gone all thick and sludgy so I can't remember the term)...my guess is the pup has been stolen and resold

[Lally112]

Text book puppy farm. tips:

see pups with mother
go to the home environment (could still be kennels but at least you see where theyre from)
make several visits before buying
see all paperwork before buying

[Singsongmama]

You've all confirmed what I suspected. Thanks for taking the time to reply. It's so sad. I only hope that she will now get the love and care she needs (or if she's stolen, returned to the poor family missing their puppy and the perpetrators caught and punished).

My friend already seems annoyed that I'm not all 'bubbles and giggles' about her getting a dog. When she phoned to tell me she said "I wasn't going to tell you because I knew you'd react like this!" I felt like saying, what...sensibly? It's a defenceless living creature and it sounds like the folk who had her didn't have her best interests at heart. It makes me so furious and her involvement makes me angry too.

[BinarySolo]

First red flag was meeting in a car park of an industrial estate. Honestly, communication should have stopped there. How will your friend feel if the puppy's solemn and she has to return it? Or if it has serious health/behavioural problems cause by treatment and bad breeding?

I'd also be concerned that it's younger than they've claimed as if it's puppy farmed they tend to want to sell them as quickly as possible. Sad for the puppy, but it's really best not to rescue these dogs as it only fuels the trade. Far better to do thorough research first and not put yourself in the situation where you can't bare to leave it.

[Singsongmama]

Yes I know and I wholeheartedly agree. I wish she had behaved differently.

[noddingoff]

I'm surprised any breeder suggests meeting a buyer in a carpark now as this is practically written in stone universally acknowledged code for "dodgy as fuck" when selling pups ie best case puppy farm, worst case stolen. Clearly somebody didn't get the memo. All of your other concerns are, as everyone has said, textbook. Your friend has been wilfully ignorant I think - like others have pointed out, it takes about 5 minutes on google to find what to look for and what to avoid when buying a puppy.

Agree with Castilian about the insurance - a craply bred Setter is trouble waiting to happen so if she can't return the pup cos in the bubbles and giggles has merrily deleted the vendor's mobile number, or number never answered (likely) or won't return the pup (even more likely - people hardly ever want to return pups even if they have two heads as they quite understandably get attached in about 5 seconds) then she'll need cast iron insurance. (Even if it was a well bred health tested setter in fact - GDVs are expensive. If she doesn't know what GDV means, print her out some info - everyone who owns a deep chested dog should know about this from the start)

[LaBelleDameSansPatience]

So ... what did the vet say??

[SteppingonLego]

Agree with everyone else. Of course this is from a puppy farm.

The people who buy and in their eyes 'rescue' the puppies just perpetuate it. They often turn out to be an expensive heartache and put the owners off ever having another dog.

Agree get insurance immediately - but be aware it won't be valid for any illness that starts in the first 2 weeks after taking it out.

[Singsongmama]

Morning, I wasn't clear in my first post - it wasn't bought from a breeder, it was from a lady who had bought the pup but then needed to rehome her. I guess it doesn't make a difference - it was still totally dodgy as far as I'm concerned.

Please don't think I am in any way supporting what she did, I am as angry as you all, but wanted to post to ask for advice that I can pass to her (checking for microchip, validity of insurance etc - thank you for this information). She has been ignorant and selfish, it makes me fume.

[TensionWheelsCoolHeels]

GDV killed one of the red setters we had when I was a child. Poor thing went to the bathroom in the middle of the night & was dead by the morning.

[BinarySolo]

*stolen not solemn!

Singsong, you come across as concerned but in no way condoning you're friends silly and selfish action. Sorry if my previous comment sounded harsh, it wasn't directed at you, but your friend.

[Singsongmama]

Thank you binary, she needs the flaming, she really does. But what's done is done now and I can't change the circumstances of her arrival in my friend's life. I'm still seething and can't calm down enough to meet the poor little thing yet. It'll be a long time before I see my friend again.

(Labelledame - She has the vets on Monday morning.)

Thank you everyone for replying.

[hmc]

Oh do update us on Monday after the vets

[Singsongmama]

Will do

[Singsongmama]

Pup has a clean bill of health, has had first set of jabs redone and is booked in for second set. Vet thinks she is 4 months old.

[hmc]

That's encouraging news

[CastilianHhhhidalgo]

If she is 16 weeks old it would be very advisable for your friend to get her enrolled in a very good puppy class as soon as possible. The socialisation window closes at 16 weeks old and as she's come from a less than ideal situation it's unlikely that the breeder/dealer has been doing all the appropriate things they should have been up to this age.