Please come and help me with some puppy problems

(13 Posts)
Pantone363 Thu 17-Jul-14 14:40:02

First I'll give you a cute pic so you feel more inclined to help wink

Nearly 9 week old Dogue De Bordeaux, which we picked up 2 days ago. He's my third dog (first PTS old age and second is a trials champion I gifted to his trainer, long story!). So I have experience with puppies/dogs. However both my other dogs I got at 12 weeks. 8 weeks is a whole other ball game!

I'll outline the issues I'm having and hopefully someone can help. Whilst at her breeders she was in a whelping box and then all moved to the conservatory and using newspaper for the toilet.

Ordinarily I would bring pup straight into the garden to the area we use for the dogs, put on the grass, "get busy", praise, repeat ad nauseaum! Previous two dogs got it in 3 days.....

This one however not so much......I don't think she's been on grass before and just hits the deck as soon as I put her down, she will walk a little but not far enough to trigger wee/poo.

Schedule at the moment is food at 6,2,6 (this is when the breeder was feeding).

Get up at 5am outside for wee (about 50/50 at the moment)
Food at 6am
Outside at 6.30
Outside at 7.15
Outside at 8
(Repeat until she goes, staying outside about 10 minutes and picking up off the grass when she lies down)
Repeat the same after each feed and every ten minutes after a drink.

Wee's are usually fine and she does go outside. But NO poos. She will wait until I bring her in and then poo on the carpet or her crate.

She seems to be doing two poos for each feed upto two hours afterwards.

Also crate problems......she has an appropriate size with blanket from mum, hot water bottle, chew toy and ticking clock next to it. She HATES it. It's open all day and she will happily go in for a sleep/play whilst I'm in the kitchen, but freaks out if I shut the door and then soils in her crate.

The first night she cried for about an hr and was quiet, came down at 5am and she had pooed.

Last night she cried continuously until 1am I came down to check and she had pooed (last outside at 11, last poo at 9)

Usually I'm quite strict and never come down to crying. Previous pups have been fine after a few days. However I don't know if she is crying because she hates the crate or crying because she has soiled it and wants out. Last night I ended up asleep on the sofa, her on the floor quite happy!

I don't allow dogs upstairs so won't bring her up, but have no idea what to do tonight!

Should I use newspaper because she is used to it? Feed earlier 5pm so she is empty by bed 11pm? Not bother with the crate and let her sleep on her blanket in the living room (not sure on this as I don't allow dogs on the sofa and don't trust her not to jump up)

Any ideas at all? Sorry it's long but wanted to get all the info in!

Pantone363 Thu 17-Jul-14 14:42:40

Also I had to crate her this morning for the school run. Max 20 minutes and she had pooed when I got back. Last poo was in the playroom 30 minutes before I went out.

fishfingerSarnies Thu 17-Jul-14 14:59:36

Try putting a pair of your worn knickers in her crate at night, our pup used to poo straight in her crate at night even of she'd just done one outside. Worn Knickers stopped the problem instantly. Good luck and enjoy,he's gorgeous!

Pantone363 Thu 17-Jul-14 15:53:10

Can't tell if pervert or genuine dog advice grin

Lilcamper Thu 17-Jul-14 16:01:06

Toilet training is all about creating good habits. Young pups have very small bladders and very little bladder control so they need to be in the right place when nature calls.

To toilet train successfully in as short a time as possible you must take your puppy to the garden:

When they wake

After eating

After taking a drink

Before, during and after a period of activity

When you come in

Before you go out

Before bedtime

During the adverts

And every twenty to thirty minutes in between unless they are asleep. During periods of activity change that to every ten to twenty minutes.

Stay outside with your pup. Do not nag or distract him just mooch about and he will do the same and eventually eliminate. Quiet praise is sufficient. Once pup has eliminated you can either stay out and play or go back indoors. If you stay out for a game then he will often need to go again before you go back indoors so stop the game and stay out for a while longer to give him a chance to go again.

If you have to take him back in and he hasn’t eliminated outside then either confine him to his crate, sit him on your lap or tuck him under your arm (small breeds only) as you go about your chores and try again in five minutes.

It is imperative that you do this, especially if you have started off with newspaper down or puppy pads because your puppy may prefer to pee indoors and he could simply be waiting to be taken back in. Give him zero opportunity to go wrong.

If your puppy toilets in the house it is because you haven’t toilet trained him yet and didn’t take him outside when he needed to go. When this happens take a rolled up newspaper and hit yourself over the head whilst repeating the words “I forgot to watch my puppy. I forgot to watch my puppy” If your puppy laughs at you when you do this – praise him.



Common mistakes during toilet training.

Using newspaper or puppy training pads. Whilst it may aid the clearing up process it can be very confusing for the pup that is taught or permitted to toilet in the house to make the transition to going outside and will often result in a pup that when playing in the garden will simply hold on until they are back indoors because that is where the toilet is.

Leaving the door open. This does nothing to teach the pup to toilet outside only.

Reprimands for toileting in the house will result in a dog that believes you disapprove of what he did not where he did it and is damaging to your relationship with your pup.

Giving treats for toileting in the garden, again the dog is being rewarded for what he did not where he did it. Whilst this is not going to be as big a problem as the reprimand, the clever dog will learn to do lots of little wees and never fully empty their bladder. The insecure dog may wee indoors to appease you if you get cross about something else because they know that this is something that pleases you and gets rewarded. NB using both reprimands and rewards is very confusing for your pup.

Expecting your pup to tell you when he needs to go out. Once a pup understands that outside is where the toilet is then he may start to let you know he needs out. However if you are not there to ask or you fail to notice him asking then the housetraining will break down. Far better to have a dog go out to the toilet on your schedule once they are house trained.

Giving your pup an ensuite in his crate. Do not encourage your pup to toilet in his crate by putting puppy pads in there. If you have to leave puppy for a while and he is going to need to go then best to have the crate inside a larger pen or blocked off area and leave the crate door open so that he can get away from his bed to toilet.


N.B. Areas indoors where pup has had an accident are best cleaned with a dilute of biological washing powder. Avoid using disinfectant as this contains ammonia and can encourage pup to pee there again.

Overnight.

Young pups will need to go to the toilet once or twice in the night for anything from a few days to a few weeks.

If your pup is sleeping in a crate in the bedroom with you then they will wake and should let you know they need to go out. Carry pup to the garden to eliminate and then straight back to bed again. A few nights of this and it will take you longer to find your slippers because of sleep deprivation and consequently pup is learning to hold on and will soon be sleeping all night.

If you choose to leave puppy in the kitchen or utility room to sleep then do not shut them in a crate and simply clean up in the morning without comment.

Why punishment does not work for house training.

A typical morning in the life of an 8 week old pup.

7:00am Puppy pees in the garden – Owner present. Gets praised

7.30am Puppy pees in the kitchen – Owner present. Gets a reprimand

8:15am Puppy pees in the lounge – Owner not present. Nothing happens except relief

9:00am Puppy pees in the lounge – Owner present. Gets a reprimand

9:30 am Puppy pees in the kitchen – Owner not present. Nothing, just relief

11:00am Puppy pees in the garden – Owner doesn’t notice Just relief again

11:30am Puppy pees under the dining room table – Owner not present. Nothing happens

12:15pm Puppy pees in the garden – Owner present – gets praise

What we think we are teaching puppy is that it is good to pee in the garden and wrong to pee in the house but what the pup is actually learning is that sometimes it is rewarding to pee when the owner is present and sometimes it is dangerous. However it is always safe to go when the owner is not present and that so far the safest place is under the dining room table.

NOTE. - Never deny your dog water in the mistaken belief that this will aid toilet training. It won't. It will make the urine stronger, it may impact on your dog's health, i.e. cause kidney problems or urniary tract infections.if the dog drinks greedily and excessively when it is available knowing it will be taken away.Dogs must have clean fresh water available all of the time.

Lilcamper Thu 17-Jul-14 16:04:30

Don't leave her to cry in her crate, she has just left her mum and littermates and is scared and confused. Leaving her to cry is creating negative associations to her crate and can lead to separation issues.

For now, either have her crate in the bedroom with you at night or sleep downstairs with her. You can worry about moving the crate downstairs or you going back up once she is more confident at being by herself.

Remember, she is only a baby and cannot help the way she feels.

I don't generally allow dogs in the bedroom, but make an exception for tiny puppies. My JRT is 12 weeks old now, got him at 8, and for the first few nights, I had him in his crate right next to my bed, so as I could reach my hand in to comfort him. I've gradually moved it further away from me, and it's now at the foot of the bed and will eventually be moved out into the hall. He doesn't cry anymore and is now going through the night without needing the loo.

No advice really on toilet training, as I've been extremely lucky with this little guy and he's got it very quickly.

tabulahrasa Thu 17-Jul-14 17:41:46

For what it's worth with the toilet training...my current dog was 16 weeks before he was reliable, it seemed to start to click before that, but not all dogs are going to get it in a couple of days.

He's 2 now and really reliable and has been since then, but, it took that first 8 weeks to sink in.

kelpeed Mon 21-Jul-14 02:01:22

Dpup was trained onto newspaper. His breeder did give him plenty of access outside though, so he was very familiar with grass, dirt gravel etc.

We put the newspaper outside in the first week to try to help him get used to the new surface and smells in our own house and garden. It was pretty windy in that week . we put bricks and stones to help stop the paper from blowing about on those days.

We think, <fingers crossed> he pooing is all sorted (this took about 3weeks of vigilant timekeeping and outside time), but his weeing is still unreliable. He will wee anywhere with no surface preference but if he has just spent ages outside he stiil can wee after he has come inside. sad

I haveread that other people have reduced the size of the newspaper taken outside, so it gets smaller and smaller till there is practially nothing there. Perhaps this might work for you?

Dpup is happy to be in his crate at nighttime but the crate is in my bedroom. he falls asleep on my bed and i transfer him in when he is sleepy. if he wakes up he doesnt to mind being transfered and is happy to go back to sleep (unlike the dc, so for me, this puppy is a massivley vast improvement) . he has worked out how to break out of the crate during the day though, by pushing the latches along.

WhatsTheEffingPoint Mon 21-Jul-14 15:36:41

My pup was 6wks when we got him. We crate trained from the off, we used to leave him with t-shirts that we had worn during the day so he had a comfort smell with him at night/when we weren't there. The first few nights he cried and i stayed with him but i slowly moved out the room and within a week or two he was happy in there on his own.

We got him in Feb so toilet training was fun in the rain and cold! We used to leave the back door open for as long as we could and just take him in and out over and over, lots of praise for going outside and if he did mess indoors i would tell him No and then put him straight outside. If he messed his cage i would leave him in it for a while (while i got the cleaning equipment together) he didnt like being dirty or not having favorite blankies/toys as they were being washed so soon got the hang of it.

Its all just time and patience but they do get there eventually (a bit like kids potty training, they do it when they are ready).

You pup looks gorgeous by the way smile

JadeJ123 Mon 21-Jul-14 19:20:36

I got my Bordeaux at 6 weeks and he was a nightmare to toilet train, never crated him as he slept when left alone, yours is adorable smile

Booboostoo Tue 22-Jul-14 06:16:53

I think you are expecting too much. She is very young and some dogs just take longer than others to train. Keep at it with the toilet training, be patient and consistent about taking her out all the time and it will happen but it could take a few weeks and for some dogs a few months. I think you were a bit lucky that your previous dogs learned in 3 days. As for the crate you need to crate train her before you close the door and leave her, she clearly is not comfortable in there. Would you consider moving the crate to your bedroom temporarily or sleeping downstairs with her?

I think she is very young to be on three meals a day, especially as a large breed, and I think this could be contributing to the double poo.

At 8 weeks, a puppy is not physically capable of being house trained - bladders etc are too small and muscle tone is too weak. The difference between and 8 week old and a 12 week old is enormous.

I agree with booboo - you are expecting too much, too soon. If she has never been on grass before, you will have to condition her to the new surface before you have a hope of getting her to behave normally on it. Although that will take no time at all at 8 weeks, it will need to be done.

As an interim, you could put her familiar surface - newspaper - on the grass and each day reduce the size of it by half. She will very quickly be peeing on grass that way. You might as well work with what she has already learned rather than against it.

It also sounds as though she has learned to poo inside - just as she has done at the breeders. You will need to retrain and I think the newspaper outside will help.

With regard it the crate - I'm not a diehard crate fan and have had two pups recently who hated them. I didn't use a crate for those two, they had a puppy pen instead which suited them much better. A large soft cuddly toy also helped them adjust to sleeping alone and not in a pile of puppies.

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