Now I am seriously upset

[ADishBestEatenCold]

Was in a friends house today and saw a short bit of an (american) tv show she was watching and now I am seriously upset.

It was about a 'dog whisperer' (a man, didn't catch his name) who was visiting a female dog owner to try and 'help' with the behavioral problems of her little yorkshire terrier. The 'problems' seemed to be that

1. the dog kept retreating into his cage/pet carrier, then wouldn't come out, having to be tipped out or hauled out by the owner who would wear oven gloves
   
2. that the dog would get aggressive when randomly grabbed (and I do mean 'grabbed'!) tipped on to it's back on the floor and held down
   
3. that the dog snapped and bit (did I say 'bit', it positively guzzled) in retaliation to 1 and 2.
   
   The 'dog whisperer' chap's role seemed to be to force the dog to submit to these two actions (and maybe other actions) by the owner, without defending itself with aggressive reaction.
   
   This little dog was about ten inches high and was completely blind! It was frantic!! It was wedging itself into it's tiny pet carrier and you could virtually see every nerve standing out of it's body. You wouldn't need to be a blood dog whisperer or even Eliza Doolittle to be able to accurately translate what this dog was saying.
   
   At one point the 'dog whisperer' lured it out of the cage with some treats and I felt myself relaxing a little, thinking it wasn't as bad as I thought. But no! It was!! As soon as the little dog cleared the carrier, he swooped on it ( blind, remember, it couldn't even see him coming ), tipped it on it's back and held it down. Then he handed it to the jailer owner, so she could tip it on it's back and hold it down a couple of times.
   
   I cannot believe this is allowed on UK television. I know bad things happen to animals, so it's maybe ridiculous for me to be upset by this, but to present it in the guise of training or dog whispering.
   
   Shit! I wanted to punch them!!

[fanoftheinvisibleman]

Let me guess...google Cesar Milan? The man deserves every bloody bite he gets!

[ADishBestEatenCold]

I googled, fanoftheinvisibleman. Yes, you are right, that's him. I think I've been living in a bubble, I'd never heard of him.

What I saw was awful. Really nasty.

[fanoftheinvisibleman]

There are some great articles out there about how horrific his tactics are but sadly I see his name popping up now and then on FB pages I use I always try to suggest some more shall we say...enlightened sources of information and advice!

Agree though that he is horrid!

[spiderlight]

Cesar Milan is scum. No other word for it. Scum with a very effective media machine though, unfortulately :( I spend many a happy hour putting all his books to the back of the shelf in Pets at Home and Waterstones.

[moosemama]

I didn't even get to the end of your post without knowing who it was. There are plenty of YouTube videos of that man being bitten for his appalling treatment of dogs. Anyone with half an ounce of common sense can see the bites coming - whereas he a self-named, so-called 'dog whisperer' apparently has no clue it's about to happen.

The RSPCA would have someone if they were videod using some of his methods - they've acted against people for far less - yet for some reason it's still legal to broadcast them to all and sundry and suggest that he is some sort of dog expert.

Sadly as fanoftheinvisibleman said, he has a huge following in the US and increasing popularity in the UK. Unfortunately, some people will trust anyone with 'celebrity' status and copy their methods, rather than doing their research and putting in the work necessary to train their dogs.

[Prettykitty111]

He is awful. Sometimes I channel hop and he is doing something positive like reward training and I get excited thinking maybe he's changed but no he always goes back to the aggression. Horrible man

[ADishBestEatenCold]

Pets at Home sell this man's books??? The same Pets at Home that sponsor all sorts of 'good care' type stuff at our local country shows??? I'll be having words with them.

I cannot imagine why this man has any sort of a following.

[YoureBeingASillyBilly]

Oh he is vile!

I have a friend who absoloutely dotes on her yorkie and she was talking about this new 'technique' she was doing to stop dog barking or something. She pokes the dog (she said lightly just to startle her) and i knew straight away she had been watching cesar milan. I was right. She thought he was a genius. I suggested she google him and do some serious reading ino the stuff he does that doesnt get aired.

[Scuttlebutter]

Actually, thank goodness, I think the tide is turning against him. His UK tour was cancelled in 2013 and there are lots of clips on Youtube of him appearing on Alan Titchmarsh in 2012 and getting absolutely flattened, by the constant challenges to his style, which has no basis in either science or reputable dog training/behaviour. AT actually referred to him as "barbaric" which was amazing. My understanding also is that no more of his shows have been commissioned.

[moosemama]

That's really good news Scuttle. I hadn't heard that. I've just seen far too many idiots employing his methods and eulogising about him on various dog forums. It makes me so sad and angry to think about all the poor dogs suffering at the hands of their owners thanks to him.

[moosemama]

Just watched the AT video - I now have a new respect for AT who has always done nothing but irritate me in the past.

[nuttymutty1]

Cm is on the way out yay! He has been banned in many European countries.

A website here is the cm backlash and qualified well recognised dog professionals and organisations all speak out against him.

A recent programme where CM was trying to find good dog trainers has been dropped due to lack of interest and followers

National Geographic are not making any more series with CM.

Positive training is the way to go and finally the message it beginning to get through.

[moosemama]

Thanks for that link. I'm sure I will be directing a few people from other sites there.

So glad to hear his shows have been cancelled.

[moosemama]

I saw another programme during the daytime on a cable channel, while I was poorly last week. Not as bad as CM but yet another American trainer using pack theory and punitive methods. In one of the episodes he was clearly putting a child at risk with a dog showing classic fear-leading-to-bite signs and him pushing the child to interact with the dog. Some of his methods were ok, not what I'd use, but not punitive, but he quickly resorted to punishment when he didn't get the desired result as fast as he wanted.

I can't for the life of me remember the name of the programme now. Sincerely hope he doesn't become popular.

[moosemama]

Found him - he's Canadian apparently, not American. Seems lots of other people object to his methods as well.

here

Never heard of him before, but he is basically the Canadian CM.

The programme was called Puppy SOS and shouldn't be allowed to be aired.

[Lilcamper]

Brad Pattison is far, far worse than CM. He has no respect for the dogs, and no respect for their owners. He also sues anyone that dares to say anything against him. Puppy Book Review

[fanoftheinvisibleman]

I must admit I felt a little overwhelmed and like a lone voice in the tide on a FB page I use the other day when loads of people were advising the (self confessed) not very confident owner of a young terrier to alpha roll, growl at him, scruff him etc Lots of you must be top dog etc.

I stuck to following up every 10 mins of comments with mentioning Apdt and kikopup and reward based positive training. It is upsetting though that someone can be easily swayed by the 'quick' effect of scaring a dog into submission with no understanding of the long term problems you could create.

I am the owner of an 18 mnth old pfd and will be eternally greatful that my first advice source was the doghouse and an awesome positive trainer. My dog is not perfect trusts me implicitly, even when I have to do things he doesn't like.

I will be eternally grateful to folks on here who guide new dog owners so that we are interested enough to learn more and not follow the outdated advice that gets bandied around so often. Oh, I'm feeling all emotional now! for the doghouse support groups!

[LEMmingaround]

ceaser milan is a cunt - end of

[LEMmingaround]

I had a dog trainer once tell me i should try and dominate my rescue rotweiller that came with food aggression issues - err no, if the poor sod felt so anxious about its dinner due to something that happened before i got him, to the extent that he would launch himself at you if you even went in the kitchen while he ate, then i'd have enough respect for him to leave him in peace to eat his dinner - how would like it if someone kept taking your dinner away just to prove they were in charge! Needless to say he was sent on his way.

[CalamityKate]

Cesar Millan and Brad Pattison need shooting.

[ADishBestEatenCold]

Thank you, everybody, for all this information. I have no idea why I had never come across this sort of thing before (I promise I do live in the real world), but I will be speaking out against it at every opportunity now.

Yesterday, when I saw that bit of his program on my friends television, I felt a bit like I would have had I seen a parent slapping a toddlers face on a parenting show! Shocked, upset and I just didn't understand.

I have done a bit of googling and viewing since then and am so glad to hear people on this thread (who have been aware of him for some time) saying that they think the tide is turning and he's falling out of favour.

The dog's owner upset me, too. How can someone be so simperingly stupid as to allow a stranger into their home and join with them in a bullying session of a little blind dog?

I will speak out anywhere I see this man's products for sale.

[moosemama]

Having now watched a few of the YouTube clips and done a bit of Googling it seems the part of the episode of BP's programme I saw was the very thin end of the wedge.

I am truly horrified by the quotes from his book in the review you linked to Lilcamper.

Some of his responses to criticism have to be seen to be believed as well.

I can't believe these people get airtime, let alone people copying their methods.

I also get incredibly riled up by the so-called animal rescue programmes that do ridiculous 'rehoming assessments' where they stick plastic hands into food bowls and dress up in an old mac with a big hat and stick to test for stranger friendliness, then put the dog down for reacting - often after first having nursed the poor dog back to health following abuse.

[Lilcamper]

If you get a chance moose, look up Tyson Kilmer and Lucas Agnew on Facebook, 3 more looney tunes and Lucas Agnew are planning their second trip to the UK

[moosemama]

Never heard of them either Lilcamper.

I was just trying to work out how I've missed all these vile so-called trainers.

I think it just isn't on my radar to even consider punitive methods, so if I'm researching or searching for advice on dog-training my searches probably have a positive slant.

You would think in this day and age of easy research at our fingertips, people would demand scientific evidence before trusting people who brutalise their dogs. Although if it were me, any amount of scientific evidence wouldn't hold me back if someone raised a hand or foot to one of my dogs. I wouldn't be responsible for my actions and simply can't understand how people can stand back and watch them being violent toward the pets they profess to love.

Just goes to confirm what I thought all along - people are well behind dogs on the evolutionary scale! Never has the phrase "the more I see of men, the more I love my dogs" been more apt.

[YoureBeingASillyBilly]

Another one here who has the doghouse contributors to thank for a dream relationship with my dream dog. So so much great advice and support here for anyone wanting to raise their furbaby the way they deserve.