lead walking, when will it improve? ?

[applegate]

Hi
I am after a bit of advice. I have a 15month old springer who is absolutely lovely and really well behaved most of the time . We have been to training since he was a small puppy and he is very good and always an angel there but I am still finding him a challenge on the lead. At training he walks beautifully but when we are out and about at home he still has a tendency to pull when I let him.I have spent hours changing directions, or stopping and standing still when he pulls but it just doesn't seem to have sunk in. I had a disastrous walk today when having had a really good 40min off the lead I put him on to walk home and he just persistently pulled or even lunged, it took us 30min to do what should have taken us 10min as we spent so long changing direction and stopping.
Any tips would be appreciated, he gets 2 good walks s day and lots of stimulation!

[applegate]

Shameless bump!!
And a query as to whether a harness would be worth a try, any experience or recommendations please? ?!

[Lilcamper]

Harness would definitely be worth a try, if anything it'll stop him from injuring himself. I use one of these with both a front and back D ring Perfect Fit

Primula cheese is great for teaching loose lead walking, you can hold the tube in front of your dog's nose and squeeze regularly to reward without getting your fingers nipped.

[applegate]

Thank you for that I will definitely try both, I never would have thought of primula but its s brilliant idea, although it did make me chuckle when I pictured us walking with a large tube of it!

[PeterDogwalker]

Hi

Get a halti. They fit around the face. When the dog pulls, it turns their head. Is does not cause pain. Dogs generally get used to them very quickly. Go for a figure of 8 one for example www.amazon.co.uk/Figure-Dog-Lead-PROBABLY-Collar/dp/B006K3H42S/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

Peter

[ihatethecold]

I've got a vizsla puppy that drives me bonkers pulling.
I've tried all sorts to get him to stop.
I bought a halti and it's fantastic.
I wouldn't be without it now.

[SnakeyMcBadass]

I have a cocker/springer cross and he is horrific on the lead. I have tried everything, and the only thing that worked was the canny collar. However, he hated it so much he started hiding under the table when he saw it, so I've ditched it. My boy is a nervous chap, and he finds being on lead terrifying because he can't escape from all the scary things. I've taken to feeding him treats randomly and keeping his lead walks short (he's mostly off lead charging through fields and woods). He's nearly 2 and a half

[Dirtybadger]

Haltis and similar (including any harness) should be training aids only. I tend to think too many people become reliant on haltis and don't do the training they set out to do. As soon as the haltis off the dog pulls. I also rarely see dogs looking comfortable in them. Some are but you have to commit to counter conditioning them to it (some but fewer dogs need this for harnesses).

I opt for two harnesses. One we use for our dog when she can pull- if we go on certain types of walks she wears it and also jogging. And if she's attached to a long line. The lead just attaches to the back (as per most harnesses).

Her second harness is as described by lilcamper. Front and back attaching. At first she only wore this in the house, garden, etc, during training. Then down the street training. Eventually once we'd done loose leash training with various distractions in in different places she wears it everywhere that's appropriate. They're good harnesses for strong dogs as you generally have a lot better control (often described as powe steering). Ours is a mekuti. The front attachment means that when the dog pulls the opposition reflex isn't triggered as in only a back attaching one (hopefully that made sense).

Avoid any that tighten as the dog pulls.

As an aside- if your dog is particularly nervous or over stimulated by what's around him you may struggle with the training until you've gotten him much calmer out and about. Very slowly building up the situations in which you expect good llw will definitely be needed (needed anyway but progress will be slower than in more "chilled out" dogs who couldn't care less about goings on in their environment).

[charliezack]

Im sorry but a Harness? these are used so its easier for the dog to pull that's why you harness sled dogs
don'g get one they are a waste of money
Halti head collars are good but many dogs wont get on with them also if improperly fitted they will slide up and rub the bottom of the dogs eye's causing pain and possibly a vet visit most pet stores and even some vets are incapable of fitting them properly
Clicker training works for some
I prefer a double ended lead and personally a choke chain though the second is not for anybody who is not trained to use they are dangerous if not used correctly stick to a half choke or solid collar if unsure
have the lead folded double as you walk every time the dog pulls extend the lead to its fullest without letting go and walk with no warning in the opposite direction
yes the dog will get pulled and it may take a few days but it is one of the best ways to heel train your animal
buy doing this i can walk a 55kg full male 47kg part grown puppy and two ferrets in the same hand no problems

[applegate]

I have got a figure of eight lead (different to a halti) which goes over his nose and have used that for the past few months but he can still pull, or at least can walk with tension on the lead rather than walking quietly by me.
Eventually I want to walk him with a normal lead and I suppose what I am wondering is by trying to teach him to walk with a halti or harness am I just teaching him to walk well when wearing one of them, or will it just aid me to break the habit of him pulling.
It is not that he is particularly nervous I don't think but he is just so enthusiastic, abit hyper and keen to get where he is going! Thanks all for the advice.

[Dirtybadger]

charliezack did you read my post? She has a back attaching harness which she can pull into (for example when we go running). She can still walk sensibly if asked because llw is on cue. She has a front attaching harness for her training and normal walks. She can't 'pull into' it- it attaches in front. I did mention why it's used (not triggering opposition reflex). Never seen a sled dog in one! We obviously will have to disagree on our methods here cus I don't see how choke chains have any part to play in training. Anything you have to be super 'skilled' to use without causing significant harm is not worth mentioning (and probably not ethical).

applegate the idea is that the tool means that the dog is walking by your side more frequently- giving you more opportunities to reinforce. Google 'YouTube kikopup leash walking' and it would bring up a good video. She uses a flat collar in the video with a chihuahua. you don't need any extra tools if your dog walks beside you enough to capture it lots (and reinforce). The head collar is just so that the dog walks beside you more in training so you have the opportunity to reinforce, and eventually fade the head collar out. You can fade it out slowly so as they learn that they always walk besides you...not only when in head collar; short bursts of training with it on (like around the neck) but not fully, etc. Only do that when their walking is getting good and you know you'll have a dog that at least for a bit walks sensibly so you can reinforce.
Personally it doesn't cause a problem for me as she has two harness. One she naturally doesn't pull into (the other she does naturally, sometimes) and has learnt to walk sensibly in, the other she doesn't. I have put walking beside me on cue anyway ('steady') for when I need her to on the other harness (jogging near traffic maybe), but even if I hadn't she always wears the harness out anyway. More of a problem for a head collar as you won't want to use it for longer than necessary.

I would always recommend a harness with a head collar/halti/whatever anyway- if the dog lunges the head collar can hurt their neck (you can see how). The harness may help assist in these cases to limit damage. Best to use two different colour leads so you know which ones controlling which. you can utilise this when fading out the tool too. Drop the head collar lead so they're only on a harness lead (but stills wearing the head collar).

I'm still not convinced about head collars and halters etc but if you can counter condition the dog to wearing it (which might take a few days or longer) do the training, fade it out, then it's worth it. It's just that not many people other getting their dogs comfy in them and I'm not sure many if any dogs like (naturally without the conditioning) them on their faces.

Might be worth googling '300 peck method' for lead walking. Hopefully you'll find it under that. It's just a method for training duration in behaviours essentially. Haven't used it myself not disciplined enough but lots of people swear by it.

[applegate]

Thats brilliant thank you. I was hoping that as you say he would get used to where to walk ie next to me rather than in front, and then I would gradually be able to introduce a normal lead as he would just 'know" the way to walk and be used to not being in front of me.
The clips are good and it is always easier to put something in to place that you have watched so thank you as I feel much more positive whereas at the beginning of the week i felt I was truly failing, a friend has a labrador who at ten drags her everywhere and I really want to get him walking well and not be in the same position she is.

[Springcleanish]

We have a springer x collie, and at puppy training were told to put lead in right hand, puppy on left, treats in left hand or vice versa. move a few steps then treat, treat being held in dogs view, low down where you want their nose to be whilst walking. It took a few goes for us to get the technique and avoid the jumping for the treat, but now we can go further and further before she pulls, and we're introducing commands.
They also said don't start lead training until you know it will be used 100% every time, and after leaving her for a day with family who let her pull on a long lead walk, it's taken a week to bring her back to where she was.
Good luck.