Should you 'mirror' other owners?

(180 Posts)
WinkyWinkola Mon 13-May-13 09:20:13

I walk my dog (black lab) in a field. Occasionally there are other dogs there. He likes to greet the other dogs and run with them. If they aren't interested he leaves them alone.

Today he ran up ti golden retriever on a lead. I got told off by the owner because her dog was on a lead(had been attacked before) and was nervous so my dog should be on a lead.

Is this right? My dog bounced up to hers, hers lunges and growled and my dog runs back to me and goes back again and then leaves her dog alone to come with me.

Apparently dog owners mirror others.

tabulahrasa Mon 13-May-13 22:50:30

To be fair though - there's a massive difference between I don't see why I should have to put my dog on a lead because other dogs are badly behaved and I ask the owner and call my dog back if I need to.

The first makes it sound like you let your dog run up to other dogs no matter what and the second is no different at all to what anybody with an on lead dog would ask for.

KittensoftPuppydog Mon 13-May-13 22:22:37

Moose
Have a look back at some of the previous posts and then tell me again about leg pulling.
The naughty step is funny, that's why I said it. Some of the other posts have been pretty vile.
I'm off now.

D0oinMeCleanin Mon 13-May-13 22:20:06

I used divert and reward with Devil Dog as I had never heard of BAT back then either, however I did inadvertently use a form of BAT with him, if he was too focused upon trying to kill the approaching dog to be diverted we would turn and walk away and then he'd be rewarded the instant he gave his full attention to me and stopped trying to turn around to see what the now-behind-him dog was up to and whether it fancied being lunch.

BAT is much quicker, but would be much easier if people would just call their sodding dogs back when they see an on lead dog coming. Off lead dogs are so much harder for whippy to deal with, we don't get as close to them before she freezes, sniffs the floor and then I click and turn away before she gets the chance to do her whole crouchy-stalky thingy which is the lead-up to her frothy dog act.

Off lead, she will curve around and come up behind a strange dog and greet, once she's done that she's fine to play. She's happy for other dogs to arch around to her too, so long as she's off lead and knows she can run if she needs to.

moosemama Mon 13-May-13 22:19:22

Agreed, Leonard.

KittensoftPuppydog Mon 13-May-13 09:29:19

Mind you, I did this the other day and the woman replied that no, her dog was friendly, and that it was on heat and I should keep my ugly dog away, and that I was ugly too!

Now that is rude. What a bitch. Both of them.

moosemama Mon 13-May-13 22:16:03

needastrong one, sounds good to me. smile

moosemama Mon 13-May-13 22:15:07

Good point Honey.

If 'No!' is your choice of stop signal then yes, it has a valid part to play. In fact, I think it sounds like that's the way Kitten uses it, as a signal of non-reward - and if something's non-rewarding, you may as well stop doing it. A perfectly legitimate and valid method, just slightly different than my own.

Must admit I do that Honey, or use an 'ah ah' sound. I always than redirect very enthusiastically using another command and then very often liver smile

So, if I think he might jump up, i will say 'ah ah' but then immediately recall, get him to sit or whatever, treat and praise.

Now not sure if this is correct?

moosemama Mon 13-May-13 22:11:04

I don't think anyone on this thread has accused you of not having your dog's best interests at heart or suggested your methods are cruel and would include locking dogs in a box all day, leading to fearful, unhappy dogs.

There has been a fair bit of ribbing and leg-pulling, yes, but mainly in response to the 'naughty step' image - which is after all a humourous image.

HoneyDragon Mon 13-May-13 22:05:48

Someone on here once explained that No! Is useful as the Dog will recognise as a stop signal. You just have to immediately follow it with an instruction the dog can follow.

moosemama Mon 13-May-13 22:00:26

I am really interested in BAT D0oin. I never heard of it in waay back in the days when I was training my more 'problem dogs', iyswim.

It seems very similar to the work I used to do back then, but has been taken much further and explained much better than I ever could. I kind of went with a mix of instinct , gut feeling, observation and positive/reward based methods at the time, but would have loved to have had the access to socialisation groups etc that there is these days.

We managed to get the terrier totally sorted and the big guy reached a point where he would ignore people and dogs, but was never really happy for others to solicitate interaction. Unfortunately, he died of cancer before we could take him any further sad but he had gone from a dog that needed to be walked with a three-man human escort, to one who was a happy calm boy who could safely mix with people and dogs, but probably preferred not to. grin

KittensoftPuppydog Mon 13-May-13 21:59:29

iPad bloody autocorrect

KittensoftPuppydog Mon 13-May-13 21:58:46

I think i've taken some unnecessarily crap on this thread, and I don't feel like taking it so have retaliated. Perhaps you should be having a little word with some of the other posters too.

moosemama Mon 13-May-13 21:52:20

It's great that you have a happy, well behaved dog and that your methods are non-punitive and work for your dog and I'm sure you don't really think that you know it all wrt dogs.

My post was in response to your rather unnecessary post at 21:23:30, which implied that listening to others on this thread would lead to an unhappy, fearful dog.

I would have to strongly disagree with that. I have only been here a short while, yet have already learned such a lot from other posters. Everyone here is here for the love of dogs and we should all be learning from each other, not fighting amongst ourselves - Lord knows there's a big enough anti-dog lobby to cope with, without us turning on each other.

D0oinMeCleanin Mon 13-May-13 21:47:41

We do a mix of BAT and extra off lead socialising Moose, she was a bit skittish off lead this morning. I caught her trying to stalk a black lab and had to recall her, her hackles were up when she came back. I had thought earlier this was because the puppy incident yesterday had shaken her up more than I thought and was worried this was the start of off lead aggression too, however she was fine on her pre-arranged playdate with a little lurcher puppy she's never met before.

moosemama Mon 13-May-13 21:46:30

I accept that some people use 'No' as a form of reprimand and if used in conjunction with appropriate redirection, in situations not involving fear or anxiety, with many dogs it's unlikely to do any harm eg, puppy nipping, but personally it's not a method I would use. I prefer to redirect and reward.

For example, lurcherboy has developed a habit of putting his front paws up on a carved bench in my window since the day we took our oldgirl to be pts. I could say no, but haven't needed to, as I have instead been redirecting him with the 'off' cue and rewarding him for getting down. This afternoon he went to put his paws up on the bench, when I watched him think twice and sit in front of it instead - cue a massive jackpot treat. Believe me, lurcherboy is not the brainiest of dogs, but he worked it out without ever being reprimanded for getting it wrong, iyswim.

I guess we both have our own slightly different methods that work for us and our dogs. smile

HoneyDragon Mon 13-May-13 21:42:51

No. Hully and I should get Whippy. Then Hully might quit with the Dail Mail Sad Face.

KittensoftPuppydog Mon 13-May-13 21:41:48

Re your last post moose, I don't think I know it all about dogs, but I was very lucky that the rescue home I got mine from gave me some excellent tips which chimed with my own experience and have worked. I have a very happy well behaved dog and I'm really enjoying her.

D0oinMeCleanin Mon 13-May-13 21:39:20

grin Laser-eyed dog lives in Scotland now. I have lazy-dog instead now. I made him walk for fives miles yesterday, he actually, properly, cried halfway home sad

I haven't took him to the beach yet, he doesn't chase, so should be fine off lead, but I need him to bond with me first.

Ahem, Redwing, I think you'll find there's an orderly queue of potential foster homes for Whippy.
<Elbows Redwing out of the way and stands by Dooin's door going "Me, me, me">

Yes, whippy looks like a cowering prisoner wink Especially being forced to go out with a dog with laser eyes. grin

RedwingWinter Mon 13-May-13 21:35:40

Now then Dooin, I was thinking about poor Whippy and how she's never allowed out (ahem) and therefore she might need to come and live with me. At least for a little bit. A loan would do. What do you think?

KittensoftPuppydog Mon 13-May-13 21:35:21

Moose
I do find that a good strong 'NO' works wonders and is easily understood. I didn't find that just ignoring it worked, she had to know what was wrong.

moosemama Mon 13-May-13 21:35:06

I think that's it D0oin, as in BAT, no reprimand, just turn your back and remove the dog to a safer distance that they can cope with, if the behaviour is rooted in fear, reprimanding is only likely to make them more anxious and/or fearful.

I have had two different dogs we needed to use this approach with. One, a terrier who suddenly became headshy after a stay in kennels when the owner was away angry. She started ducking and running away for no apparent reason. We had to watch her for signs of stress and remove her from the situation to a place she felt safer as soon as she started to show signs - she would then be rewarded for coping and behaving appropriately in the new situation.

The second - or actually the first case - was a large breed with serious fear aggression. If he became reactive we would turn him away and remove him to a distance where he could observe, but not be stressed by or react to whatever the stimulus was. He could then be rewarded for appropriate behaviour in the new location.

In both cases we were able to verry slowly reduce the distance to which they had to be removed before being able to cope and thus being rewarded.

In neither case would reprimand have been appropriate, as both dogs were clearly terrified.

Reprimand should rarely be required if you employ reward/non-reward - yes you may have to physically move the dog from A to B if they are in danger or causing problems for someone else, but it's always worth distraction and redirection before physical redirection.

Kittensoft, there is an awful lot of valuable knowledge and experience within this community, anyone dismissing all of it out of hand is, imho, being both arrogant and naive. I have lived with dogs for many many years, but the day I think I know it all and know better than everyone else is the day I should give it up. There is always more to learn and always new research and understanding being uncovered.

ps - owners response was 'sorry love, he's a bit mental'?!

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