OMG, that German Shepherd at Crufts - it looked deformed.

[Callisto]

I have no idea what the breed standard should be for a German Shepherd dog, but the one I saw at Crufts last night looked awful. It was so awkward and ungainly and didn't look as though it could trot for longer than 5 minutes without collapsing. Why on earth would anyone want to breed a dog like that?

[toboldlygo]

Repeated from another forum, forgive me:

The hip scores of that dog as well as a myriad of other health and working tests, including a 20k endurance test gaiting alongside a bike, are freely available online.

It irks me that someone who is doing it right - breeding dogs with sound hips, good temperament and a half decent working ability - is blasted when an 'alsatian' with a straight backed appearance would be lauded, when in reality its hips could be shot to hell.

And I don't have an agenda, I wouldn't personally choose a 'slopey backed' GSD myself, I need a sprinting dog for my purposes not an efficiently long low gaiting one. I just wanted to point out that you can't argue against evidence of health tests and working quals - that's a sound, healthy dog capable of work. I will save my ire for dogs with faces so squashed or with so much excecss skin that they struggle to behave like a normal dog does, or those breeds like bulldogs where hip dysplasia is endemic and pretty much normalised.

Again, the slope isn't for me (and especially not the extreme slope you see in some other examples, not the BoB however IMO), I don't need that kind of dog for the jobs I do but they are supremely efficient at what they do (gaiting effortlessly all day).

[toboldlygo]

This is the exact same dog. I could put my flat-backed Siberians into that show stack and they'd look nearly as slopey.

[YouveCatToBeKittenMe]

This is really interesting

IMO the 1950's German Show Line dogs have a much more natural line in their back, the back now seems to slope away really dramatically.

The American show lines now look completely unnatural.

Surely the dog should be bred to do everything it was originally intended for and not so that it's back is more sloped for showing or less sloped for sprinting.
This implies that a show GSD would not be suitable to do the job it was originally bred to do.

[toboldlygo]

Sorry, I wasn't clear - I wouldn't choose to own a GSD because I don't need a long low endlessly gaiting dog, I need a fast sprinting dog - I own and race Siberian huskies.

That show GSD can do everything he was bred to do, it's all documented. :)

The American show lines of anything look unnatural, they even manage to make sibes look poofy, choppy and cat-footed. That the American cocker spaniel is shown with the rest of the gundogs is a joke.

As above, in a natural stance he doesn't look a great deal different to the 40s and 50s examples.

[alwaysworking]

whilst i do agree with you about the american cocker - especially in full show clip (one shown in the gamekeepers ring at crufts on saturday much to the amusement of the very nice chap i sat next to watching). He did say that there was one working as a gundog in the UK.

He was suggesting showing his poodle in pom pom clip that he took out picking up. i get laughed at enough without taking a poodle but if it can do the job then what the hell does it matter.

[digerd]

The first time I saw an american cocker, I found it so elegant with its long neck, beautiful movement keeping that elegant poise and flow, I fell in love with it. It was at an open show years ago and he won BOB. Had seen it outside the ring - outdoors- and was very lively having fun and caught my eye then.

[midastouch]

I think elmo is a good example of the breed actually. You can stand any dog like that and they'd also have a sloping back, they are the only breed to be stood like that so you do notice the difference.

[TrinityForce]

Why is this on 'Trending' when it's 2 years old?

[Sophia1984]

There was another very unhealthy looking German Shepherd on Crufts tonight.

[Scone1nSixtySeconds]

trinity it's because trending only looks at most viewed threads. Thus a two year old thread - which totally threw me as I couldn't square the circle of Monday 11th! didn't look at the year

This years GSD was a shocker though :(

[toboldlygo]

Not to be confused with the dog this thread was about. Sadly this year's BOB was not sound and also appeared to be very spooked in the main arena.

[Scone1nSixtySeconds]

toboldlygo I was properly shocked actually. My 13yr old Labrador walks on her hocks occasionally, and it panics me as a symptom of her going off her legs.

Poor dog. :( I hope the judge is given a proper dressing down.

[DawnMumsnet]

@TrinityForce

Why is this on 'Trending' when it's 2 years old?

Hi TrinityForce,

Basically, every 5 minutes we get the list of top viewed threads from Google Analytics and we just display the first 5 of those. So Trending displays the most viewed threads, not the most posted on. We're guessing a lot of people are Googling Crufts at the moment, hence the sudden interest.
​
​We've hit the magic button now to stop this thread showing up in Trending, though. Hopefully something more timely will pop up in its place :)
​

[Newes]

It has been going on for years and yet there was the earnest discussion tonight with people who know exactly what has been going on all pretending it was a mistake, an anomaly.

[WhoTheFuckIsSimon]

I don't think that judge will be invited back.

Dog looked awful.

[TrinityForce]

Interesting, thanks for the explanation.

[TheMuskrateer]

Are you sure that this dog actually passed a 20 km endurance test? Statement from the owner of this dog: "It should not be a surprise to anyone why the GSD breed in the UK are being strongly drawn towards the German SV system – Germany being the founders of our breed just over a hundred years ago and they have established the most comprehensive system of any other breed in the world. The German SV system requires for showing and breeding DNA parentage, microchip identification, to meet strict conformational criteria according to the German breed standard, hip and elbow grades and assessment of the spine along with formal character assessment, endurance test of 20 kilometers gaiting, IPO test of courage, tracking and obedience and a very demanding breed survey (korung) Soundness in mind and body is a crucial part of the German Shepherd breed." SO has Catoria passed all these tests? Could you link to this information?

[tabulahrasa]

No clue about the rest, but her hip and elbow scores are very easily found online, her elbows are a perfect 0 and hips a pretty decent 6/7.

[LilCamper]

The dog was stressed as hell in the main ring and sloppy hanling made her worse.

[mrslaughan]

Breed standards are changed though - and this can happen due to a fashion for dogs to look a certain way.
I was very interested in the differences in opinion especially that of the German Shepard club, so I asked a friend who is a canine osteopath and physio........ She has very real concerns about the gait and stance of the winner, that it's hocks are nearly on the floor.
So while it's hip and elbow scores may be great - that is just that part of its anatomy, and you need to look at the whole dog and how it uses its body, yes it was stressed, but having experience of our pet dog being shown at crufts , and the effects of that stress on his movement- this is just an excuse....... Just saying.....

[tabulahrasa]

I don't think she looked right at all, but, TheMuskrateer asked about test results and that's what they are...

I don't think the stress comment was supposed to excuse the movement, just a separate observation?

[mrslaughan]

I have been following it closely and reading lots about it as I am interested, and maybe lilcamper wasn't using the stress thing to excuse it's movement , but have seen quite a few comments from German Shephard breeders using it as a defence for its movement.
I just find it interesting - only time will tell , but as an outside observer I do wonder if there were disagreements like this over breeds like the pug, King Charles's, bulldog etc - all of which have had unique features bred to an extreme , to the detriment of the health of the breed. Of course in the time of social media and Internet - people outside of the breed clubs , KC and those who don't read the specific dog breeding media have access to some of the information and discussion's.