possible puppies?

(71 Posts)
willoughboobs Tue 26-Feb-13 22:57:11

i have a beautiful lhasa apso who is nearly 3yo and has she has just been in season so we've paid for a stud to mat her with for her first time smile
they was stuck for 20minutes, the studs owners said everything went perfect and they doubt she wont have caught. my dm and df also lhasa apso breeders think the same but I'm not to sure hmm does anyone else think her chances are good just from being stuck once?

MagicLlama Wed 27-Feb-13 21:53:19

willough The buyers of the pups have no obligation at all to keep in touch with you, so I agree with the above post about checking them out fully prior to sale. You can also get puppy sales contracts which specify in the event of them new owner being unable to keep the dog it comes back to you for you to rehome, which might be something else to consider.

mind77 Wed 27-Feb-13 22:18:27

magicllama I have not ignored your comments. I fully agree that there needs to be a proper regulation in place in terms of being allowed to breed. I also think that there should be regulation in place though from the buyers end as well. I don't think people should be allowed to just purchase dogs or any animal on a whim,but only the government passing proper legislation is going to help prevent this,which is looking unlikely to ever happen saddly.
Of course I'm not going to discount cats,thats ridiculous. An animal is an animal and they are all just as important and precious.
But how can you post on this thread stating how 'exited' the OP must be and giving encouragment when you work in rescue yourselfhmm You are helping save and re-home animals and yet on the other hand you are encouraging the OP to go ahead with this and bring yet more animals into the world. I may have got over emotional on this subject and you may feel that I have insulted(wasn't my intention) but you are being hypocritical.

Frettchen Wed 27-Feb-13 22:28:46

Most rescues I've seen have put on their website whether the dog is child-friendly or not... And I'm very certain that if you spoke to any rescue and explained that you already had a dog/your children have grown up with dogs, and invite them for a home check that they would make an exception. They generally want what's best for the dog.

Also, many rescues have younger dogs in who are more likely to not have issues with younger kids; you just have to spend a bit of time talking to the rescue and meeting their dogs.

If there were regulations governing the sale of dogs (and all animals) on the internet then there wouldn't be so many people so easily dissuaded from going to rescues.

Every time a BYB is criticised for producing yet more pups, up pops another apologist who trots out the tired old lines about how difficult it is to find a rescue who will home a dog to people who work or have children. hmm

Yet, mysteriously, all the rescues I know, volunteer for and am involved with :-

Will rehome to working people (provided it's an adult dog not a pup and there are appropriate arrangements in place for walking/exercise)

Take a sensible case by case approach to adoption with young children (under 5s) - usually it's dependent on the individual dog.

I'm in S Wales and the following rescues based here are included - Greyhound Rescue Wales, Greyhound Welfare, Animal Lifeline Wales, Hope Rescue, Four Paws Rescue, Lizzies Barn Rescue, Croft Rescue, and Dogs Trust. Between them, these rescues rehome hundreds of beautiful dogs every year to loving responsible homes where there are working adults and children.

I know a fellow MNetter who is having a homecheck on Saturday - she has both children (3 lovely boys) and a job. Oddly enough, she's had no problem at all in sourcing a gorgeous young whippet bitch, mainly because she got off her arse and phoned around a few rescues.

I'm closely involved in efforts in Wales to improve dog breeding regulation. New regs are finally being introduced this May after 2 rounds of consultation and endless hard work in lobbying and campaigning. Rescues have been in the forefront of this campaign and it is the so called "hobby breeders" and the KC angry who have fought the proposals every step of the way and done their utmost to water down the very modest improvements being suggested. So forgive me if I am a little cynical about aspirant BYBs.

willoughboobs Wed 27-Feb-13 23:50:10

iv given my reasons, which i think are clear enough... my family and friends have rescued dogs and some got turned away as they had children and they just want a bit more of a safer option of bringing a dog up with their children!!!

i will not profit from them as I'm only asking for £100 each pup to family and friends which will cover some medical costs.

not everyone wants the risk of having a potentially unsafe pet in their home around their children.

i will keep in contact with the dogs as i said "they are going to family and friends" and i don't see me falling out with them anytime soon and they all live within a mile of me!!!

i wouldn't dare ask someone not to have children because there is abandoned, abused and homeless children allover the world that could be adopted instead of having their own. Just because some pets get mistreat and abandoned doesn't mean this is going to be the case with all breeders.

Yes i am new to this but i know how to look after a dog and give it the best possible care and same for the pups...i was only asking about her chances not how to look after them!!

angry

willoughboobs Wed 27-Feb-13 23:53:26

magic thank you i will definitely think about that smile

tabulahrasa Thu 28-Feb-13 01:46:57

So you think somehow that your puppies will be somehow a safer option than Jackson,
Victor, Tate, Louis or pixie? Or any of the hundreds of other puppies in rescues? Or that puppies that don't yet exist, nevermind raised and trained must automatically have a better temperament than an adult dog who's been trained and assessed by a behavourist? If that's what you think you can't possibly know the day to day business of rehoming dogs.

And by vet checked - do you mean your dog and the stud have current eye certificates and have had clear results from two breed relevant DNA tests, or your vet gives them a quick look over and listens to their chest for 30 seconds?

kitsmummy Thu 28-Feb-13 07:11:39

£100? bullshit

idirdog Thu 28-Feb-13 08:11:08

wiloughboobs everything you write shows you have a very limited experience of dogs.

Your puppies will be "safer" than a rescue?????????? Rescues dogs are fully assessed and matched to the correct household after their behaviour and temperment being watched.

Puppies are unknown expecially breed by back yard breeders who are asking such basic questions.

Well done your dogs are wormed and vaccinated - What health tests and health test papers have you done on your bitch BEFORE the mating?
Have you tested for PRA (a minimum requirements) on the bitch and the dog? These results should also be reported to the Lhasa club of Great Britain to add to their database.

Daily Mail article but highlights the point of how many handbag dogs need rescuing

MothershipG Thu 28-Feb-13 08:49:08

I really hope that you did get the relevant health checks done but even if it's all too late now at the very least get The Book of the Bitch to help guide you through this process. As your OP demonstrated you have obviously done little or no research and your stud's owner appears to be no better.

I hope your bitch comes through this well and has a healthy litter but please arm yourself with some knowledge about what can go wrong and the best way to help her if it does. sad

MothershipG Thu 28-Feb-13 09:01:49

And anyone who is thinking about breeding please read this article first.

Thinking about breeding? Think about this...

I am really really trying hard not to post here.

So I will just be very calm and collected and just say this...

It is utter bollocks that rescues will not rehome to families with under 7s or people who work.
I have rescue dogs. We got BigDog when ds2 was 3. And we both work full time. Luckily enough I am able to bring the dogs to work with me but no, we aren't at home all day.

I've also been fostering dogs since ds1 was 6.

So, no, rescues do not need to do more.
people need to do more.

They need to stop breeding dogs in their home for money. They need to stop buying cute little pups from BYB because their cousins aunties boyfriend told the they can't have a rescue because they have young children.

But there is a definite perception amongst the "want a dog, don't know much about rescue but would consider one, but equally don't have any moral objection to buying a puppy" brigade that rescues won't rehome to workers or with young children. I was at a party a couple of months ago, mentioned we were planning on getting a dog, and every person there told me 'ooh, you'll have trouble getting a rescue, because of the age of your child'.

There is no way I would ever buy a dog as I think it is morally wrong to do so when there are dogs in rescue. So I have always made the effort to research rescues that will rehome to my situation - when I worked full-time I rehomed adult dogs from the RSPCA and DogsTrust, and now I have a child (but work from home) I have found a small local rescue who have no problem with rehoming a young dog to me.

But I've only gone the extra mile as I am passionate about rescue. One person at the party who I was speaking to - in exactly the same home set-up as me - has gone on to buy the cliched chocolate lab pup. If this misperception about rescues' criteria could be broken down, then many more people would rehome, rather than buy.

D0oinMeCleanin Thu 28-Feb-13 14:05:04

"not everyone wants the risk of having a potentially unsafe pet in their home around their children" So only rescue dogs have the potential to snap? I'd always thought any animal with teeth had the potential to bite, regardless of their background, how silly of me.

I foster dogs in my own home with my children and cat. I can asses the dogs and how they behave with children/cats in the home. I can retrain any bad habits they might have picked up along the way. I am studying for a degree in canine behaviour so have a fair idea of what I am doing.

Can you explain why your puppies will be safer than my fostered, trained, assessed (By myself and the home coordinator) dogs?

Incidentally, the only dog we've had who I advised needed a child free home came from a family home where he was raised with five children from 8 weeks old.

kitsmummy Thu 28-Feb-13 17:58:38

Many Tears re-homed to me and I have DD(3). The local labrador rescue would have done too.

littlewhitebag Thu 28-Feb-13 18:26:31

I am a bit non plussed by this thread. I can understand that there are many dogs out there which need rehomed and that some breeders breed for all the wrong reasons. However there are also many people out there who want a pup of a specific breed.
We looked at getting a rescue dog for a while and for a variety of reasons decided this was not for us. We chose to buy a labrador puppy from a breeder and would be very angry if someone told me that i should have had a rescue dog instead. It is my life and my choice. The OP is breeding so her friends and family can have a dog like hers. Why do we disbelieve this. I always thought people on the Doghouse were lovely but now i don't think this at all.

SpicyPear Thu 28-Feb-13 18:37:04

littlewhite I am not against all breeding at all. But I believe that only the best ecamples of the breed ahould be bred from, with very careful matching of the sire and dam, full breed appropriate health tests prior to mating and a lifetime committment to take any pup back at any time in the future. My problem is with people who have no idea what they are doing sticking their, no doubt lovely, but untested random pet with an equally random stud to create puppies with possible genetic problems and that don't further the breed. It is thoughtless back yard breeding as well as puppy farms leading to the massive oversupply of dogs. You should have to be vetted and wait for a puppy. Thousands of puppies available on a whim lead to thousands of unwanted dogs in rescue or pts each year.

Yes, cos it's so horrible to remind people of the essential health checks needed before mating to ensure pups aren't born with preventable genetic conditions. hmm

littlewhitebag Thu 28-Feb-13 18:47:28

It's not horrible to remind people about this but i think the way it has been done here was shameful and not at all in the spirit of support.

D0oinMeCleanin Thu 28-Feb-13 18:49:47

There are puppies of all breeds in rescues if you can be bothered to look, they're just as easy to find as puppies from reputable breeders. Apart from Whippys, there are no whippys in rescue, there are whippets and whippet crosses but no whippys, however since the only whippy in the world has been spayed, despite several people offering her owner money to breed from her and several other people asking if her owner planned to breed from her because they need a whippy of their own, then if any whippy does turn up in rescue I know of at least 20 good homes looking for a whippy.

tabulahrasa Thu 28-Feb-13 18:51:09

littlewhitebag - It's about ethical and unethical breeding.

A responsible breeder breeds because they want that mating to achieve something, a potential champion, a certain working trait...if you're a responsible breeder friends wanting a puppy isn't a good enough reason, not because people shouldn't have puppies but because no-one goes through the expense and hassle of the required health test for someone else's puppy, breeding a litter costs money again why would you do that for someone else to get a puppy, it's also a massive inconvenience. On top of that there's the physical stress and strain you're putting your bitch through - and the very real possibility that you could lose your bitch. Again why would you do all that for someone else to have a puppy?

Because of the risks, the finances and the hassle of it a responsible breeder doesn't just jump into it, they research they find a knowledgeable mentor that they trust to support them and look for the right type of dog to use as a stud with again a knowledgeable owner that they trust to advise and support them.

Because they're trying to achieve a certain look or trait and either shown or competed with their bitch to make sure she was suitable to pass that trait on and have spent time finding people to support and advise them they'll have met other people interested in that mating and would usually have a waiting list of vetted potential owners before the breeding ever happens.

They would know how mating works and they'd have their mentor and stud owner to discuss it with - they wouldn't be asking on here and if they did want to just chat about it, they'd know about the health tests because they'd have been done, they'd know that contracts usually have a clause about returning the dog to them if it was ever to be rehomed. They'd have done their homework before they ever considered the actual litter.

SpicyPear Thu 28-Feb-13 19:02:33

I draw the line at supporting someone in this type of breeding and feela responsibilty to make the points so that hopefully OP will reconsider.

I think the Doghouse is supportive and many of us bite our tongues and try to help when people have clearly been irresponsible in getting a dog, but this type of breeding crosses a line and we'd be part of the problem if we didn't say something.

MagicLlama Thu 28-Feb-13 19:10:52

Scuttlebutter but lots of people do think that about rescues. They do think that they wont be considered because of their kids / work / garden / location whatever. They do think that there is no "point" going to a rescue because it only has staffies, or the dogs are dangerous, or there is no puppies. Yes people have the wrong misconceptions, but I think rescues could do more to promote the fact that that is not the case.

Sadly, many people dont even consider a rescue pup because they a) dont think they are suitable b) dont want the hassle c) think the dogs are more likely to be dangerous / unsafe.

I dont want to rescue bash - I think rescues do brilliant work, and 2 of my dogs are rescues themselves, but I just think the myths about rescues need to torn apart so that the general public consider getting a dog from there and that the rescues have a part to play a part in that.

There also needs to be far more legislation around owning & breeding dogs but I suspect its not very high on the governments priority list so I dont hold out any hope there.

Empress77 Thu 28-Feb-13 19:19:14

Can I also make the point that it is easy to adopt from breed specific rescues....OP could your friends and family not perhaps consider adopting those in need of a home already and still have the exact breed they want - www.lhasaapsorescue.org.uk/rescuers/index.htm

Im a vet nurse and it is so so dismaying and heartbreaking the numbers of: dogs owners want killed because they are too much for them now/dont fit with the new lifestyle/has snapped/a million other excuses....; dogs at death door/having to be euthaniased due to having a pyometra that would have been preventable by spaying ; puppies dead after a ceaser ; pedigrees having to be euthanaised due to health defect that is due to the breed.

I really really wish people would not breed anymore, I cant understand how anyone could think it a sensible plan, its a tragedy for another dog that could have had a home and been a great pet. And its very likely to be a tragedy for the pup itself when the new family tire of it after a year and it ends up in the pound too. And its a tragedy for the poor Mum if she doesnt get spayed after the enforced breeding and ends up with death by pyometra.

Please reconsider breeding from her if she hasnt got pregnant and please look at adopting instead.

idirdog Thu 28-Feb-13 19:19:15

MagicLlama get real! If people are interested in getting a dog it is not a lot to expect a very minimal amount of research eg look at rescue website confused

Rescue centres are fit to bursting and dealing with everyday issues, generally with money raised from charity there is not a lot of time left, or money for promoting what people can find out. If they can't be arsed to find out then have they the time for a dog.

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