Our rescue newf needs help

[Emmielu]

As some of you may know if you read my other posts, my parents and i have rescued a 2 1/2 year old newfoundland bitch. We've had her just over a week now. Shes very well trained. In great shape and gets on with us all fantastically including my parents 19 month old newfoundland dog and my 5 year old DD.

However, we have noticed she gets startled very easily. It all came to ahead last night. One time before my parents dog startled her and she growled and went to bite him. We assumed it was just that she was scared. But last night, i went downstairs to get a drink, opened the stair gate, walked past our bitch and she growled, launched herself at me and bit my arm. As soon as i screamed, she backed off completely and went and sat in the corner of the room. I think it shocked us both. Straight away i could tell she didnt mean it and that i obviously made her jump somehow. But now we know she has a fear streak we dont know what to do. I know straight away first thing would be to get rid of her but i really think thats not fair since its not her fault. We dont know how she was treated by her last owner at all. All we gathered is that she didnt get walked enough and never had toys. I really would like to find another option before letting her go. She didnt bite hard enough to pierce the skin there was just a little cut but the way she backed off from my scream and the fact shes spent this morning constantly following me gives me a gut feeling that she really is sorry.

I dont want to let her go. None of us do. We're all willing to give her another chance now we know what it is. We have a lady coming over today to see what she can advise for us but does anyone have any ideas on what we can all do?

[RedwingS]

She was probably asleep and was startled when you walked past her. Next time, say something when you go into the room so that she knows it is you and you don't take her by surprise.

It is very common to have a few issues when you take on a new adult dog with an unknown past - it's like taking a dog from the pound, you don't know the history and no one has done a proper behavioural examination. So you have to expect to do a bit of work, but the good news is that problems like this can be fixed, and often it's not even that much work. She's very lucky to have a new home with you and if you do lots of positive reinforcement training with her then you can make a big difference in a short space of time.

It's good that you've got a lady coming over, and hopefully she is a positive reinforcement type lady. Has she been already? How did it go? It must have been a real shock to you, especially happening in the middle of the night, but the good news in amongst this is that it shows she does have some bite inhibition, because she could have done much more damage if she wanted to. She's been through a lot and like you say, she deserves another chance.

You will need to be careful to keep her separated from your DD when you are not supervising, because you don't want your DD to accidentally startle her and get the same response. Make sure you teach your DD not to approach the dog when lying, eating, sleeping, or even standing still - she must call the dog to her if she wants to pet it.

Good luck and do let us know how it went today.

[JaxTellerIsMyFriend]

you must have got such a fright. Echoing what redwing said.

Hope your lady gave you some pointers and you havent decided to give up on this dog. I always tell the dogs that I am there, something silly like "its me/mummy" if I get up during the night because of something that happened to my FIL years ago with one of his shepherds.

FIL came downstairs during the night with a woolly hat on (suffers from ME and feels the cold) and the dog didnt recognise him and went to launch himself at FIL and just at the last minute realised who it was and stopped!

You havent had the dog very long and are still at the getting to know each other stage. I hope everything works out though.

[Emmielu]

The lady was going to take her away for 2 weeks but tbh I don't think that'll help us or our bitch. It was made worse yesterday afternoon. Dog was sat next to me and DD stood the other side of the dog. Dog looked at DD and seemed settled. So dd stroked her back. Dog growled at DD and stared at her. DD is now scared of the dog.

[beancurd]

That is a worrying start. I would suggest you get a good behaviourist in asap and one who works with dogs in situ but you know this already.

I have big rescues also and have had a few poor starters who have ended up fine and I think all I have learnt over time is to go slower and slower. I don't think you know what you have properly for about 3 months, until then keeping everything as calm, orderly and low arousal as possible is the way to start.

I would encourage her to settle somewhere away from any hustle and bustle and where your dd doesn't have to get past her alone at any point. I wouldn't encourage petting at all just keep everything very basic and safe whilst you see how it goes.

I think just because she seemed settled doesn't mean she was, she could be shut down, showing subtle stress signs that you can be helped to read. It is early days and I wish you good luck with it.

[WTFwasthat]

what a nightmare! good luck

[Emmielu]

I spoke to the lady who was meant to come over. Told her in detail all of it from start to finish. She said it sounds like she has a fear of children and anxiety problems. She's suggested dog massage to relax her and a dog behaviourist to come and show us and DD better ways to show that she isn't going to get hurt

I'm very angry with the breeder though. I rang her the same night the accident happened. Told her. She replied with "sorry. I can't travel down to you to get the dog. But I'll get your other dogs breeder to do it and rehome her" she's offered no support. Our other dogs breeder is nothing to do with our bitch and yet she was happy to put the responsibility on her.

The breeder also told us that our bitch hadnt been transferred on documents because the last owner couldn't be bothered. When I tried to transfer her to my name as owner it wouldn't do it. It said that our bitch already had the transfer work done by the last owner. I told the breeder and she said she would sort it. She still hasn't. I doubt we'd get much help from her tbh which is a shame cause I frankly think the first person I'd fall back on in this would be the breeder. As it stands I'm talking to other people who only know my parents dog and you ladies on here.

[beancurd]

The breeder sounds poor, she should help but at least you have a plan to be going forward with.

Have things been ok since the other day? Hope your behaviourist helps.

[Emmielu]

Shes been ignoring my DD a little bit and shes been quiet all day yesterday. She barked at the postman just now so i went out to get the post and told her to be quiet, she responded by looking at me and growling. It scared me. But i realised if i let her get away with thinking that growling at me is ok then ill never get around this. So i told her to be quiet, got the post and told her to lay down. She came an leant against me, growled again, so i told her to stop it, then she laid down. I have no idea if im doing any of this right.

[beancurd]

I don't think you are getting it wrong, just go slow whilst you wait for help. Is she food orientated, distraction and rewarding the calm behaviour can help too, sure you know this... Sounds like she is responsive to you which is a start and growling at least lets you know she is unhappy. The 0-60 variety are much more difficult!

Hope you have a calm few days and that this bumps you for one of the dog house behaviourists.

[RedwingS]

The breeder doesn't sound very good. You don't want to rehome your other dog!!

When you say the dog seemed settled before your DD stroked her, is it possible that she was settled as in, 'settled down and not wanting to be disturbed'? Do you know any of the materials on teaching children how to behave around dogs? There's some useful stuff by Sophia Yin here that you could chat about with your DD. You will have to supervise very carefully though. Also, if your DD is going to pet her, teach her to pet under the chin or on the side of the dog, not on top of the head or leaning over, and especially not to hug the dog. If you're not sure about it, then teach DD and the new dog to ignore each other for the time being, until things are settled down.

It sounds like you will have to take things very slowly until you can get a behaviourist in to help.

I know it can be scary when a dog growls at you, but never tell her off for growling. It's her way of telling you that she is unhappy with something, and that's useful information. What can happen with a dog that is punished for growling is that they learn not to growl - but still feel uncomfortable in those situations and so they just go straight to bite, without warning (or with only a subtle warning that most people would miss).

Is she eating properly? Is she motivated by treats at all? If so, then you can start using treats to reward her when she behaves well. One way of doing this is to count out a bowl of treats in the morning, put it on the table, and dole them out during the day whenever she is doing anything that is good or calm. It might just be when she is sitting calmly and looks relaxed, or it might be when she responds to a command from you. You can use some of her regular kibble instead of treats if she likes it, but most new dogs will need something more interesting, in which case you'll have to reduce the amount you are feeding her at mealtimes so that she doesn't get overweight.

Another way of doing it is to pick three behaviours that you like and want to increase, e.g. staying away from the table when your DD is eating, lying down calmly in the room and ignoring your DD, etc - whatever works for you. Then whenever she does one of those things, give her a treat. In so far as you can, ignore any bad behaviours as if they aren't happening. The three behaviours that you have chosen to reward will become more ingrained and happen more often; and once they are all fixed you can start to pick another behaviour to reward instead.

Best of luck. It does sound like you are in at the deep end right now; if you can get a behaviourist it will really help.

[Emmielu]

It'll cost us too much to get a behaviourist in just to do an assessment. She growled at DD again today and went for my niece so now we have to send her back. I'm heartbroken. despite what she did to DD, DD loves her to pieces. She goes back Saturday. It's going to hurt a lot. I don't plan on telling dd until Friday evening. She's out with her godmother on Friday and I don't want to ruin the day for her so Friday evening it'll have to be. I hate that we couldn't be the ones to help her. I hope she eventually gets a home where she can be fully settled with no problems. I hate this.

[Scuttlebutter]

Emmie, I am so, so sorry that this didn't work out for you and your family.

I very much hope the breeder attempts to rehome this dog via a reputable rescue, and NOT via private individuals, as has happened here. One of the reasons why is that rescues can do a lot of work on behavioural assessment before a dog is homed and can also offer professional support and behavioural management after adoption, not just leaving the new owner to get on with it. It's such a shame this dog has been let down by people (NOT you) in its life, and hasn't had the best of starts.

Sending you best wishes.

[Emmielu]

Thank you. I can't describe how angry I am with the breeder. She's useless. Even her latest owners of litters have asked elsewhere for help cause they're not getting if from her. She refused to come here Saturday. So my dad is having to drive 8 hours altogether to take her back. We've had no help. No apology. Nothing.

[RedwingS]

I'm really sorry this hasn't worked out for you. Like Scuttle, I hope the breeder will rehome her via a reputable rescue who can assess her properly and find a well-matched home for her. She wasn't a good match for you and she needs some behavioural help. You must be so disappointed.

When you feel ready to look for a dog again, come on here and ask for rescue suggestions, and people (including Scuttle) will have some good ideas to help you find a dog that's appropriate for a family.

[Emmielu]

Oh I definately will do better research if we go for another one. Thank you ladies for your help.

[beancurd]

What a stressful time for you, there is a home out there a better fit for the dog and a dog a better fit for your home.

Is it worth seeing if breed rescue would take the dog directly rather than involving the breeder at all? Doesn't sound like she would care either way.