Help me with my porky dog please.

[OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere]

I have a lovely, 3 year old Chihauhau x Pom.
I have had dogs all my life and I have never had a fat one.
In the past I have been a bit judgy about people who let their dogs get fat

I chose a toy x breed because I am realistic about the amount of exercise we can give a dog and I prefer mongrels to pedigrees.

He goes out every day. He has free run of the garden but it is clearly not enough.

I feed him a third of a can of chappie per day with a very small handful of biscuits. He gets NO treats. I know you probably dont believe me but it is true!

I tried him on a diet dry food for months and at this point he was coming running with me three times a week (plus his usual walks x day). He had no affect. I could have cried when I took him for his weigh ins.

So I put him back on the chappie.

So what do we think?
The summer holidays are coming up so I am thinking of a regime/routine change to get this little boy slimmed down a bit.

The problem is - he is obviously not more Chi than pom. He is not light boned and fragile. He is long legged and pretty robust so I am not sure how much he should weigh.

I suspect he will never fit into the the vet's charts for a chi. That isnt an excuse - I know he needs to lose weight but I dont think he is every going to be a handbag dog.

He is happy and healthy, full of energy and willing walk, run etc.

Tell me what to do and I will go for it.

I am just going to pick up the kids from nursery but will be back in a sec.
Please dont flame me.

My life is fairly shite at the moment and I do care about my dog - I have not fed him full of chips and he has 2 walks a day.

Do some dogs hold on to weight more than others?

Thanks

[Scuttlebutter]

Don't worry too much about the scales, a bit like the BMI scale for humans they are a guide but not definitive.

Rather than worrying too much about the numbers, think instead about his fitness and condition, and his overall appearance. Yes, some dogs are more prone to weight gain than others (a bit like humans) and yes, there is a difference between dogs, even of the same breed, size and sex. For example our two male greyhounds have a 5kg weight difference between them even though both fed the same, exercised the same etc and neither is overweight.

I'd be aiming for a good musculature, glossy coat and at least his two last ribs visible.

If at all possible, resume the running with him, that's great exercise. Can you lengthen each walk, even say by five minutes? I'd drop the biscuits and cut back a little bit on the Chappie. A couple of times a week, swap the Chappie for a meal of either sardines or pilchards (whatever is on offer at supermarket!)

You could also consider active play when out the garden - does he do fetch for balls, playing tug on a rope, teaching him tricks with a clicker, all these will get him active. Another idea is to move to a biscuit/kibble based food and rather than him be served it, hide it in places round the house/garden so he is having to work to find it.

[OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere]

The fish is a good idea. I will do that.
He obviously needs more exercise. He doesnt eat much so I think that must be the key.

Hiding food seems good. Do you have to show them how to do it though? If I hide it will he find it just like that?

I have just had him weighed whilst I was getting his flea stuff. He is 9kg.
That seems an awful lot to me.

I feel terrible.
I will start by increasing his walks this week and introduce a bit of fish and kibble hiding.

When we were running and he was on the diet food I was really confident that the weight would drop off. It just didnt.

[stowsettler]

Scuttlebuttler is right. I've got two 10-y-o Jack Russell Terrierists, from the same litter. Fred is a proper athlete, long-legged and muscular, still as fit as a flea and faster than most of the puppy delinquents around here.
Wilma, on the other hand, is a proper chubby porkalator. Her legs are shorter, her tummy is a real barrel and she's always been completely bone idle. She has less food than Fred (and both of them have significantly less than the recommended amount), but it makes no difference. They go on long walks with a dog walker 3 x times a week and usual walks in between - a minimum of twice a day. She likes to appear old and wheezy, but she's got just as much stamina as Fred.
The vet has never really commented on her weight, except to say "Yes, she's a stocky little dog". If he's not worried and she's still healthy (and fit, despite what she wants me to believe), I won't worry.

[OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere]

I feel awful.
Thanks for not flaming me.
He does need to lose weight though. Definately.

But no way is he ever going to be a little lap dog. I think he may be more of a mix up than I first thought. That doesnt bother me, I love mongrels, but it makes it harder to gauge what he should look like.

I need to see a waist though

[wildfig]

No flaming here - I was mortified to find BigFigDog had packed on 4kg between vet's visits. She is now on Senior Light food and stern looks on the walks.

One suggestion though - you say you're not giving him treats, but are you absolutely sure no one else is? I only say that because both my dogs seem quite resigned to the fact that no treats at the table are ever forthcoming from my side of the table, they do seem to hang around the other side fairly confidently...

[OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere]

He may be picking bits up from the kids. He is a scavenger.
I do not encourage it but I would be deluded if I said it couldnt happen.

He used to leap into the high chair the moment the baby vacated it. We put a stop to that!

If he keeps going at this rate he wont be able to move let alone leap onto a high chair [sob]

[daisydotandgertie]

Hey - don't worry about him too much.

What covering does he have over his ribs? Does it feel like a blanket or duvet? Can you actually feel them? It's going to be hard to guess what he's actually MEANT to look like - in terms of waist and so on because he is a bit of a breed jumble; so do it by feel.

Chappie plus biscuits is quite a grain heavy diet, he might do better if you cut out the cereal for a while and feed protein and veg.

I would try some Burns wet food though - it's good quality and low fat and it's easy to get right. Feed for his target weight - I'd try knocking off a kg to start with. Making up a diet yourself isn't so easy to get right.

[OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere]

I can feel his ribs but I cant see them.
He is due a hair cut so that will help me work out just how porky he is.

You know what started all this off? Someone recommended a frozen chunk meant food. They raved about it.
I got it for the dogs and my elderly x breed lost about 5 years! He was fairly skipping about the place.

Yes - because of all the bloody fat in it! Gave Atticus pancreatitis and made him put on kgs. I have not been able to get the weight off since.

Would it be better to give him chicken and rice for a bit? Will he get everything he needs from that?

I chose chappie because its bland. I give him the few biscuits for his teeth.

Jeez with my other dogs I just gave them their chappie and they lived for about 100 years!

[LtEveDallas]

Aww MrsDV, no flaming, but you may have to accept that your dog is growing into his frame.

We had a JRT x Corgi dog a few years ago. When we had her she was a JRT with a Corgi face, she ran 3 miles a day with me (to and from work) and had a good 2 hours with a dog walker at lunchtime. She used to eat well, but wasn't a guzzler.

However, when she hit 3 - 4 yrs she started putting on weight. There was no change in her diet or exercise regime, but she slowly and steadily got fatter. She was going to go and stay with a friend for a year whilst we were overseas, so I took her for a 'full MOT' beforehand and mentioned it to the vet.

Vet took one look and said - "yes, now her Corgi side is coming out". Apparently the vet had been waiting for it to happen - it was just her metabolism settling down as she got older. All the vet could say was to put her on a 'diet' or 'senior' food. We swapped her onto Arden Grange Light but the weight slowly and steadily increased.

Within a year she was a big fat Corgi with a JRT tail. She looks like a barrel with stumpy legs. There is hardly any trace of JRT left in her. She stayed with our friend in the end, and despite walking a good 6-8 miles a day, (he is a farmer) she has never lost any weight. I feel sad whenever I see her, but I know that it was nothing we (or friend) did wrong, it was just her genetics.

Poor old FatJess

[OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere]

Poor FatJess!

Corgis are like big dogs with little legs arent they?

But unless Atticus is crossed with a Newfoundland I do think I room for improvement

[Aquelven]

Don't worry about the scales, just go by his looks & stamina. As long as he's active & you can still feel ribs through the flesh & his tummy is flat or goes up a bit, not a round roly poly hanging down, then being a toy breed weight isn't set in stone.
I have three Yorkies, two weigh under the breed standard of 7lb but the other weighs 9lb. He's the most active of the lot, just a bit taller & bigger, can walk the legs off everyone.
I also have two Skyes, litter sisters, one weighs 8lbs more than the other, neither are overweight just differently built. Like Corgies & Bassetts they're very big, sturdy dogs on short legs.

[LtEveDallas]

She's actually a small dog with a big attitude. Friend has 2 other dogs, a Rottie and a Rottie/Collie X. FatJess is the BOSS!

[OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere]

I am feeling a bit better. Thanks.
I reckon I need to get a couple of Kg off him though.

I will report back with progress.

Poor FatAtticus.

[ChickensHaveNoLips]

I need to see pics of Fatjess.

[GrimmaTheNome]

I'm not sure if chicken and rice would be balanced long term - if you try it include skin and gristly bits not just lean meat. Maybe you could try him with raw beef bones instead of the biscuits for his teeth?(my dog seems to expend quite a lot of energy dealing with a bone though you'd probably want to remove lumps of fat that often come attached)

[LtEveDallas]

If I can get on the PC later Chickens I'll upload one, maybe a before and after :)

[purplesprouting]

I dieted one of mine with similar mortification. It was water retention as she had undiagnosed kidney problems...

[panicnotanymore]

If your dog is getting plenty of exercise and not losing weight you need to feed him less. I know you may feel mean, but if the only food he is getting is what you are giving him, you have total control over his weight.

My neighbour continually complains her spaniel is too fat and buys him special diet food.... but when another neighbour looks after him during their holidays he goes home lean and fit. The only difference is he is given less food.

I have one lazy lay-about dog and one energetic one. Lazy bones has much much less food although he is a considerably larger breed. He'd be really porkie if I fed him the same.

[OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere]

He really only gets a tiny amount.
I think he needs more exercise.

If this dog doesnt lose weight over the holidays I am going to take him to the vets. Because I am determined to slim him down.

[daisydotandgertie]

What about quarter of a tin of Chappie with lots of veg to bulk it out?

That'd cut down his calorie intake but not leave him starving hungry. A lot of the BARF stylee free flow foods have a very high fat content - and have caused pancreatitis more than once. Their crude fat content is often very, very high.

I really would try a Burns dried complete though - Burns is well known for keeping dogs lean (feed for target weight at a rate of 10g of food per kg per day). I wouldn't keep a dog on chicken and rice for more than a few days because it does not have a full complement of necessary vitamins and minerals.

[OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere]

I will look at the Burns stuff.
I didnt know that about the pacreatitis. I feel a right fool.
I do like my current vet but am a bit that they practice in the back of a shop (pets at home) where they sell this stuff.

I am wary of chicken and rice type diets. Its so hard to get the balance right when you feed dogs 'human' foods. Something I have tried to explain to loving owners more than a few times myself.

I dont want to crash diet him either. He is not dangerously overweight and has plenty of energy. I think that is because he is so young though, I doubt he will carry on being full of vim if he stays this weight for much longer.

I will update on our progress

[daisydotandgertie]

Don't feel a fool!

I have spent hours with another doggy friend [saddo] working out the crude fat contents of a whole selection of foods because we both had dogs suffering from pancreatitis. Luckily, daisydog3 only had a single acute attack, but my friend's dog has a chronic condition which is far more difficult to manage.

If you can feel his ribs, he can't be too bad and with a teeny dog, a little off will make a huge difference. With my whopping great labradors a single kg makes a very noticeable difference to them; a kg will make a big old difference to your dog.

How long did it take for his pancreatitis to resolve itself - and how did you fix it?

[OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere]

He got well quickly with medication. I just feel stupid because I didn't make the connection with the food. Mind you nor did the vet.
Thanks for your reassurance :)

[daisydotandgertie]

Ahhh. Vets. Don't start me.

The number of times I have been frustrated by the lack of detailed knowledge vets have; the reliance on crappy commission based food sales; steroid jabs as a cure all. I could bang on and on.

Of course, that's not a blanket frustration - there are some incredible vets who actually think before they do, but there have been a number of occasions where, scarily, I have known more than them. And I don't know much!

[OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere]

Had a bit of a breakthrough!
Took Fatticus for a shave today.
The groomer thought he looked more like a Klein than a Pom cross.
Same family but much bigger!
So although I know he is over weight I also know there is no way he needs to get down to 5kg.
I reckon 7kg is more like it.
Hurrah