I think my neighbour is being really rather unreasonable...(sorry, long!!)

[IreadthereforeIam]

We've had our Wire Fox Terrier puppy for a week - she's 13 weeks old, and she's absolutely gorgeous! My 3 year Lakeland Terrier has surprised us all, and is getting on really well with her.

The only problem is, I thought, night times. We've been putting her crate with the door open in a puppy pen, so that she has room to sleep in the crate, and can pop out of it in case she needs the loo in the night (we've put paper down for her). She started off horrendously - the first few nights we were up all the time (it felt like!!), and we expected that. She has improved a little, but she's waking at 4am, and then not really getting back to sleep after that (even though we let her out into the garden for a wee - she prefers to go out there than in her pen tbh.)

I have to work - I work 2 half days and a whole day in a Preschool (and I come home for 45 mins for lunch on the whole day), and I go to a pilates class for another morning.

I came home from a morning in work at lunch time today, and was accosted by my neighbour. She was really quite aggressive, told me that the puppy was barking all morning, and that her and her dh had been out into their back garden, because they thought that we'd left the puppy in the conservatory (?? She was in the kitchen!!), and that we had to do something about her. I told her that we had her in the kitchen, and I couldn't get her any further away from their dividing wall, I apologised, and said that she was just a little puppy, we'd only had her a week, and that I'm sure she would improve with a bit of time and perseverance! She said it wasn't good enough, and that I had to do something. She was fed up with listening to her bark all morning. I asked what she would suggest (she'd already made the comment that they had had dogs in the past, but hers weren't 'yappy' little dogs) - she said I would have to move her 'away'. I asked her what she meant, and she shrugged. I'm assuming that she wants me to get rid of the puppy after a week. I'm livid, actually. I had to walk away, because I would've said something that I know I would have regretted (or not!).

I'm really genuinely worried now about what she's going to do. I know her and her dh have been very aggressive towards other neighbours in the past (in that passive/ aggressive kind of way). I'm trying my bloody best with the puppy - I adore my dogs - exercise them loads, train them - but how I'm supposed to work bloody miracles in a week, I'll never know!!

Does anybody out there have any advice for night times? I opened up the puppy pen bigger and put my 3 year old dog in with her when I collected my ds's from school today - I couldn't hear her barking when I came home (I made the children tip-toe up the drive so that we could listen!!), but I don't think he will be terribly impressed with being locked in there with her at night - he usually sleeps on the floor in our bedroom.

To be honest, I'm desperate for some advice - or even just some reassurance. Ok, even if someone comes and has a go at me - and gives me a reason for it, I'll be satisfied!!

Thankyou!

[butilikesalt]

When you say she's up at 4am, I assume you mean she's barking?

How long do you think it's reasonable for your neighbor to put up with a dog barking nonstop all morning? Another week? Another month?

[IreadthereforeIam]

I'd like her to stop asap - do you have any suggestions? We go downstairs to quieten her - settle her down and then go back upstairs. All miracles gratefully received.

[Scuttlebutter]

Firstly, I wouldn't leave a puppy that young unattended for that long.

Secondly, your neighbours. They may be genuinely concerned for the dog's welfare - if this was one of our neighbours, I would be too. Dog barking is a noise nuisance, especially if it goes on all day.

If this continues, your neighbour may well approach the Environmental Health department of the local Council. They will ask her to keep a noise diary, detailing when/how often the noise nuisance occurs. They may also ask her to keep recording equipment in her home so the noise levels can be objectively assessed. After this, they may decide that there is a problem and in the worst case, they can take legal action against you which is binding and will probably require you to either move home or get rid of the puppy (since in reality, you are unlikely to give up your work). In any case, it will almost certainly sound the death knell for the relationship with this neighbour. Also, be aware, that once a person has been sensitised to a noise, they become hyper-vigilant - they genuinely find it more distressing so every time your dog barks in future it will bother them greatly.

If you genuinely want to fix this, ask your other neighbours for a frank view - can they hear the pup? Does it bother them? Talk again to the neighbours - are there special reasons for them being sensitive at the moment? Shift working, health problems that might lead them to need a quiet time during the day. Sometimes people are more willing to tolerate this if they know you know there is a problem and that you are doing everything possible to try to resolve it and that it will not be a permanent feature of life in your street.

This is not an easy issue to resolve - there has to be a lot of goodwill on both sides. Good luck.

[butilikesalt]

No miracles to offer. I love dogs, but I don't actually think your neighbor is being unreasonable.

[ProcrastinateWildly]

To be fair to your neighbour, I'd be pretty pissed off if I lived next to you and was woken by a barking puppy, then had to listen to it bark all morning. Surely you can see her point of view? She didn't choose to get a puppy.

[toutpuissant]

Could you put her crate in your room with you? That might help the nighttime barking, but not when you are away from the house. Not sure if these are available in the UK but I have heard good things about thundershirts, they are supposed to help with separation anxiety.

[Scuttlebutter]

Have just re-read in light of previous comments. If your pup is barking at 4 a.m. as well as all morning, then you are being unreasonable, and I'm amazed they haven't been to the local Council yet. Also, don't know if it applies, but if you are in social housing, noise nuisance is now regarded as being anti social behaviour and can lead to an ASBO and even eviction in worst case.

[JasperJohns]

I would not leave a puppy for an entire day, with just a 45 minute visit.

I don't think your neighbour is being unreasonable, this would be fairly intolerable to most people.

Could you find a dog daycare place for when you're out all day?

[Kenobi]

I managed about 10 days of my neighbour's bichon frisee puppy barking endlessly (sometimes up to 6 hours a day, average 3-4, non-stop) whenever the owner left it alone before I realised that I was close to going tearfully insane with the misery of it (I had a young baby which is why I was home, but even if I hadn't been...).

I had every sympathy for the confused little thing, but god it was awful. If the dog had barked at night as well as the day I would have lasted about 5 days, tops. We live in a flat and 4 different households were affected, so I know we were not the only ones who complained.

Yes, your puppy is only little and will learn, but endless barking is noise pollution and absolutely horrendous to have to deal with. Particularly high-pitched barking, I guess because it's more invasive?

In the neighbour's case, she hadn't realised he barked when she went out at all (he stopped the MOMENT he heard her footsteps on the stairs) and from then on she took her dog with her when she went out until she had him trained. She also said that she would consider an anti-bark collar if he didn't take to training, but fortunately for the dog, he did take to it. It's still a very yappy dog and starts barking if she leaves him alone for too long, lets him out into their garden, laughs too loud (!)..... but we appreciate she does her absolute best and have not mentioned it again. Actually she has just let him out for a pee and he's barking right now!

Obviously taking him everywhere is not practical for you during the day, but I think you'll have to put your older dog in with her at night if that worked before. You cannot reasonably expect your neighbours to listen to your puppy bark at 4am.

[oreocrumbs]

Can you take some time off to spend some time with the pup and do a bit of training?

A week at home should help. If you allow the other dog in your bedroom will you be allowing the pup up too?

Some of the basic training we do with dogs is start by leaving them in a room and closing the door. Come back after 30 seconds. Then do it again and come back when it stops barking. Give a treat. When it grasps that you only come in when it is quiet, start increasing the time. Wait untill pup has been quiet for a few minutes then come in (again with a treat), then 10 mins, then 20. Then start leaving for a bit longer. Get a baby monitor. Go and sit in the car. See how much noise the pup makes when you are out.

The pup should follow the lead of the older dog, if you are keeping them apart it can't. How reliable is it at waiting to go out for a wee? I would have it sleep where the other dog does. Up to you if thats your room or the kitchen, but then the pup has company. If the dog gets up at 4, then you really need to distract it, you can't allow it to bark. By not stoping it you are teaching it that it is ok.

We also use growling as a method of discipline. Dogs don't speak english, they pick up tone. If your dog is barking when you are around give a low throaty growl. It shows your displeasure. Not by any means fool proof but it seems to work.

You need to be enforcing boundries early. A noisy dog is a PIA for everyone, including yourself. Be consistent, it will take time, all pups bark but it should be starting to settle down a bit now.

If you do have to go out, take the dog for a walk first (or out to play if jabs are not done). Then when you leave the dog should sleep, and not be a ball of pent up energy looking for an outlet!

[Kenobi]

scuttle you are so right about hyper-sensitivity - just thinking about how desperately awful it was, sitting here 18 months later, I can actually feel my tension levels rising.

[yesbutnobut]

Rather than thinking the neighbour had a problem I would be feeling really sad that my pup was unhappy. I have a pup who is not left alone for more than an hour or 2. I work 2 days a week and have a puppy sitter for those days. I can see that you have another dog and you'd think the puppy would be fine, but it obviously isn't. And how do you know the yapping will automatically stop over time - it may get worse if your pup is experiencing separation anxiety.

That said it sounds like your neighbour is being unnecessarily unpleasant in approach - they could express their objections in a more civil way.

[MiseryBusiness]

Basically, the reason your puppy is crying and barking all morning is because it is unreasonable for you to leave it that long. At 13 weeks you shouldnt be leaving them much at all really.

At night if your older dog sleeps in your bedroom, can you not put puppy in the crate in your bedroom too and remember to take them out to the toilet in the night, this should decrease the noise in the night, I wouldnt normally suggest this first off but as you seem ok with dogs in the bedroom it might be an idea.

To stop the barking when you are at work you need to build up leaving her over time. Give her a kong or whatever and leave the house for 1 min, if she isnt making any noise lots of praise then go up to 2 min, 5 min, 10 min and over the next couple of weeks maybe up to 30 min and then eventually an hour and so on. You really shouldn't be leaving her all day with a 45 min break inbetween.

[wildfig]

With the night time crate training, are you giving her a mixed message about the open crate in the puppy pen with the pads? The routine I followed with my puppy was to shut him in the crate at bedtime, then take him outside for a wee/poo in the middle of the night, then leave him again till the morning. I only had to do that for a few nights before he'd sleep through, and hold his wee/poo until 7am; he also knows that 'closed crate' = 'chill out/sleep time', and switches off.

Your puppy's very little to be left alone for such a long time. At 13 weeks, I was still watching mine like a hawk during the day and taking him out every hour on the hour to reinforce the house training. I did go out, but we built up to it very slowly. Have you tried leaving a radio on, so she feels soothed by human voices around her? It also blocks out any movements outside that might provoke barking. Can anyone else go in to break up the time she's alone?

[ChickensHaveNoLips]

See, this has always worried me. I rarely leave Jasper, and when I do it's never for more than about 3 hours (he's 8 months old now). I know that when he was very little he did bark sometimes (I'd hear him when I was putting the key in the door) but I don't hear him now. No one has ever complained, so I can only assume he doesn't. He isn't panting or hoarse when we come home either. He does bark in the garden sometimes, and I am hyper aware of not pissing off the neighbours. I think your pup is very young to be left that long, and doesn't it balls up toilet training? Is there any way you can arrange to leave the pup for less time and build it up?

[feesh]

When our pup was 13 weeks, I was setting my alarm for 3am and taking her out for a quiet wee before popping her back in bed again quietly. Otherwise you're asking the dog to wake you up for a wee, and that's a difficult habit to break because the dog has to bark to get your attention, and then you have to respond to the bark because you know the dog is doing it to let you know she needs a wee. Then you are teaching the dog that barking is a good way to get your attention......

Also, at that age, I never left her home alone - I was still at the stage of trying to teach her to be alone in the kitchen for a few minutes and it took a couple of weeks to work up to actually leaving the house.

With your lifestyle, a proven (in a foster home) adult rescue would probably have been an easier and more suitable choice than a puppy....

[feesh]

ChickensHaveNoLips: if you have MacBook or possibly an iPad, there is an app called SpCam which records using the built in camera every time the computer detects a noise or movement in the room - it's helpful for knowing what Doggy gets up to while you're out :) /OT

[daisydotandgertie]

Poor puppy.

I'm very surprised you've decided that leaving a very young puppy alone for 4 mornings a week is acceptable. Let alone for an entire day with only a 45 minute break. Or that your exercise class should be included in the time you're out of the house at the moment given you are already out working for a lot of the time.

How are you planning to house train her? She can't possibly be learning to wee outside the house if you're not there to teach her.

For a short period of time, you HAVE to put the dog first. She needs you to teach her how to behave in the house and to learn that your home is a secure and happy place to be.

Only 7 days ago, she was with what, her breeder? In a place she knew, probably with her siblings? She has now been dumped in a strange house on her own with a 3 year old dog who you didn't expect to get on with her and left for an enormous proportion of the day.

Your puppy is distressed. You have to fix it. I would start by moving her into my bedroom at night; in her crate, but near you. Once she's content, start slowly moving her out onto the landing and down the stairs. It won't take more than a couple of weeks.

How are you socialising her if you're not there much?

The socialising and learning window is very small. If she's already 13 weeks old and a small breed, it's getting smaller very quickly. She is rapidly learning undesirable behaviours - barking, weeing in the house, and no doubt chewing things before long - because she is alone for such a long time which will be very, very hard to unlearn unless you do something NOW.

Your neighbours shouldn't have to listen to a dog barking from 4 in the morning until lunchtime, puppy or otherwise. It's not fair on them. But more importantly, it's absolutely not fair that the puppy is so distressed it HAS to bark all the time.

[Ephiny]

What everyone else said. It's too much too soon to leave her like that. Even with an adult rescue dog, I'd build the time up slowly over a week or two and not go straight to leaving them alone for hours in an unfamiliar place - and yours is only a baby!

It's not fair on your neighbours or the pup. I think you need to try to find someone to look after her while you're out, at least until she's a bit older and more settled.

[ChickensHaveNoLips]

Feesh, you lost me at 'app' When I see my neighbours, I'll ask them if they hear him barking in the house. I don't think he does now, though. When he was, I used to be able to smell his distress when I came in (I hasten to add he was only left for 20 minutes at the time, so I could dash to the shop for milk or whatever). The air would be thick with that 'fear' smell, and he'd be panting and pacing. Now when I get in, there's no smell and he's generally just stretching out of his bed. I always leave him a kong/chew when I go out, so I think he's ok. But it's worth checking :)

[noinspiration]

Puppies are babies, they need a lot of time and love to teach them how to cope in a human world. Please don't leave her home alone - get a sitter, someone with experience who can help house train and socialise her.

[TwllBach]

Chickens I'm so glad you said that about the 'distress' smell! I've thought before now that I can tell if DogBach is scared (she used to have a full on fear of horses and cars) because I could smell it, but I have never told anyone before because I thought I would sound crazy.

Sorry for the thread hijack OP

[ChickensHaveNoLips]

Yep, there is definitely a smell. A doggy, sweaty stench. Part of it is the panting, but Jasper seemed to ooze it from his pores too. Now I hardly ever smell it, only when he's been in a new situation or got a sudden shock (he bloody hates motorbikes).

[Scuttlebutter]

Yy about the smell. They smell v different when ill too.

[TwllBach]

I once took my dog for a walk over 'the inland sea' which is basically an estuary. The tide was in, so she was merrily bounding along in water that was up to her armpits, slipped on rock and cracked her leg. She came limping back to me, squealing, and I thought she must have broken it and was nearly in tears with her - the stench coming off of her was unreal. A really sweaty, panicky smell.

She had only shocked herself, she hadn't broken anything and she ran on it fine afterwards

It did make me realise that scent is definitely part of the reason animals know when humans are scared though - but I don't think humans can always smell human fear.