OMG my dog has been possessed by a canine demon

[feesh]

I literally do not know what just happened, but I do know that I came very close to throttling my dog!

We have been doing this walk around the outside walls of our compound lately. The past two times we have done it, we've met up with another dog who is very similar to mine in play-style and they've had a ball (the 1st time was by accident, the 2nd time we arranged to meet). Other dog has been off-lead at the point we've met up on both occasions (very annoying) so I've not had the chance to let my dog approach calmly and had to just let her off immediately on sight, to avoid extreme dog tanglement. (The other dog is a rescue and they've not started doing any training with her yet).

Today we did the same walk, and I was due to meet the other dog once we got back onto some wasteground just inside our compound.

We were the other side of a very high (10 ft) concrete wall from where we were supposed to meet this dog, when my dog must have picked up the scent of her or heard her over the wall.

My dog went fricking NUTS. And I mean absolute NUTS.

She nearly yanked my arm out of the socket. She doesn't normally pull, she is normally really good at loose leash walking. So I stopped. Then the screaming started.

And I mean SCREAMING. This was way beyond a whine.

She knows to give me eye contact when we do a 'stop and wait' when on a walk - this is my cue to start walking again (I normally do the 'stop and wait' thing to stop her from pulling - it's how I taught her not to pull). So she looks me in the eye (eventually) but she's wailing as she does it.

I decide to wait for some nice calm behaviour. It never comes! She is pulling my arm out of the socket, leaping in the air, jumping up at me, all these behaviours which she NEVER does normally. It was like a different dog and she is bloody scary when you've got 23kg of tall, lanky dog leaping up at you, let me tell you. And all the time she's howling like she's in pain or something.

At one point, I let go of her lead because she hurt my hand, and she bombed off like a rocket - thankfully she still had her longline attached as we had been doing some training games and recall games up to then.

When I got a moment of calm behaviour, I clicked and treated (she spat out the treat even though it was liver) and I did some walking round in circles to get her to heel and focus on me. But as soon as we set off in the 'right' direction, towards the end of the wall, it started again. I couldn't turn back home as

To cut a long story short, I've just had an hour of this before we eventually made it home. When we got to the patch of wasteground where we had been due to meet the other dog and it still didn't stop (even though my dog could see nobody was there any more - the other dog had been taken home).

She completely lost all focus on me.

I've already arranged to meet a more understanding dog owner tomorrow with her dog on the same land (she knows what she is doing and we have already pre-arranged to do some work with our dogs both on leads but kept apart to teach them to focus on us when other dogs are present). Well, we're not going to meet as such, but keep the dogs a decent enough distance away that they can still focus on us.

I'm dreading it now - I don't think I'll be able to even get as close as 500m at this rate!

Even as I type, she's walking round the house squeaking and whining. AAARGH!

[feesh]

PS Sorry for appalling writing, my DH kept interrupting me! Also my dog is 11 months old if that's any help. She used to be fine in the presence of other dogs when we used to go to puppy class, but the only dog trainer here has now left the country and there are no other dog trainers here at all :(

[twange]

11 months is still very young and they can still be a bit bonkers lol! It took my Jack Russell till she was over two before she finally could be taught and relied of to do recall, most of the time Now she's four and trots along to heel off-lead by choice, although I wish she'd run around and have more fun to be honest. Maybe it was just an off day, maybe she'll be fine tomorrow.. one step back and two steps forward maybe.. fingers crossed for you hello

[twange]

ha ha meant to put at the end.. duh lol!

[feesh]

Well hello twange! Lol, I do wish there was an edit function on this forum, don't you? :)

I've been thinking, this is probably all my fault, because 99% of the time when we meet other dogs, it's on the beach and therefore my dog is off lead.

But that's not actually true - like I said we did puppy class from August to October. And in November we did a big beach clean up with about 100 other dog walkers, all of whom had their dogs on leads too and she was fine then.

ARRRGH my dog must actually have been possessed.

[feesh]

Oh and EVERYONE has been saying to me lately "You don't need to take her to the beach every day, you should spend more time doing some intensive leash-walking with loads of training to tire her out mentally".

Well, that's exactly what I've been doing for the past 2 weeks and I actually think that's half the problem. Mental stimulation just DOES NOT tire my dog out. She is a muscular, fit dog with lots of stamina and I'm sure this mental exercise theory doesn't apply to her - I think I should start going back to the beach every day with her for a good 90 minute run and swim.

[Scuttlebutter]

Feesh, I know you've mentioned before that you are in hte MIddle East, is it possible that a biting insect or something like that (or a scorpion/spider) had bitten your dog at that point? Screaming like that sounds more as though she was frightened or in pain?

[CalamityKate]

Sounds like a very strong excitement/frustration response to me - and stressed dogs will often refuse food or, as you describe, spit it out.

[feesh]

No she wasn't in pain - she is a vocal little minx at the best of times! It was exactly what CalamityKate says - very VERY strong excitement and frustration combined. She often refuses treats if she's utterly distracted, or if we're towards the end of a walk as it's still quite warm here and my treats aren't very, erm, moist!

[redrubyshoes]

Is she due in season soon or has she been spayed?

[RedwingWinter]

So was this your dog's first tantrum?

My husky once had a complete fit just because he wanted to go down a side-street and we wouldn't let him. He sat there and screamed blue murder and tried to back out of his collar, and the friends we were with thought we must have really hurt him. It was very embarrassing. We just acted like he was a toddler having a tantrum (that's what it felt like). Once he realized he couldn't back out of his collar (that was tricky) and we were not going to go that way, he gave up.

Our other dog is prone to all sorts of exciteable behaviours, but some of them - like throwing himself to the floor and refusing to move, or biting his lead - I can deal with with a look.

I actually practise making him very excited, with a ball or something, and then calming him down. I can't really describe how to calm him down or even know exactly what I'm doing, but I seem to be getting better at it. I think the biggest thing is to stay calm myself. So you could add this to your training regimen - make the dog excited and then practise calming down.

Dogs behave differently on and off-leash and it sounds like the thing you have planned with a friend is exactly what the dog needs. Minimuu has made some great posts about leash reactivity and teaching a 'look dog' command, which might help you get the dog's attention back on you when there is another dog in the vicinity.

I agree with you about the beach running around vs the walking on-leash. I think it's good for a dog to get a chance to let off some steam and run around freely sometimes.

[CalamityKate]

I've got a squealer

There's a couple of minutes at the start of any lead walk that entails her squealing piteously/semi-howling in anticipation that we might, rather than do the whole walk onlead, in fact be heading to the park. Once it's sunk in that we're just doing the school run or whatever, she calms down but for those cringeingly embarrassing first few minutes, I've got an opera singing/squeaking idiot on the end of the lead

[daisydotandgertie]

I was going to ask the season question. She must be about due her first if she's not been spayed and it can make them very odd indeed. One of mine has started her first in the last few days and although she's nearly normal now, she has been very, very highly strung, noisy and grumpy in the the two weeks leading up to it.

If I were you, I'd postpone your session tomorrow. I always, always avoid setting a dog up to fail and I fear that is what will happen.

Take her to the beach for a really good run about tomorrow and the day after land then back again with some on lead practice. If she reacts normally to this, could you arrange a dog date ovn the beach? Keep her away from the hysteria causing place until you feel back in control of her, rather than the other way round!

And keep an eye out for her season. Baboon like vulva, lots of wees sometimes with a cocked leg and little drips of blood if you wipe. A white blanket or sheet in her bed is a good idea to be sure you spot the start of it.

[feesh]

Nope, she's spayed - we had her done at 5.5 months before summer holidays. This is her first ever major strop. I was thinking earlier, I have walked her on lead with another dog in the last 6 weeks as well. I do not know what happened today. Tomorrow I am going for an early beach walk to tire her out, then meeting the other lady at 4pm and will drive my car onto the wasteground. One squeal or silliness and she goes back in the car. And I will keep a good half a km away from the lady and her dog.

We are going to crack this.

I hate how with dogs, you feel like you're finally getting somewhere and then they always, always seem to pull another annoying thing out of the hat which you have to deal with. It's especially hard if it's your first dog and you don't have the confidence that the thing you are going to try is definitely going to work. You're just kind of stabbing in the dark and hoping for the best....

[feesh]

PS she knows "look at me" but she's a stubborn saluki mix and its really hard to get her focus back on me once it goes like that.
They did say on Dogs 101 the other day that salukis are one of the hardest breeds to train because they are so distant and aloof, which makes me feel slightly better!!!

[twange]

I think may be right about her needing her off lead run around too. Maybe after a few days of not releasing all that energy in the way she's used to, she was just so uptight and threw a tantrum? What you're doing today sounds a much better plan.. a good run around followed by lead training later.
I'm going to write a post myself now as I still have one rescue dog who needs improvement in this department ps.. hopefully no need for 'edit' this time lol!

[JaxTellerIsMyFriend]

I think she does need to run off her energy at the beach every day. And do some training for mental stimulation.

Your puppy had a tantrum, a very noisy one. I recognise this because now and then mine does the same (GSD) - she is v noisy and it drives me insane. If I ignore the yapping/squeaking/dancing around like a loon, she resorts to barking. It drives me insane and ignoring it is NOT easy.

Mine does it due to over excitement and gets a bit stressy.

Keep going with the training, she's still very young... And Saluki.

[feesh]

She went loopy-loo at the beach this morning, and threw a new wobbler at the end - not getting back into the car - ended up having to drive off 3 times before she would get back in! Still, she's completely exhausted now, asleep behind me dreaming of whatever that rotting marine mammal's vertebrae was that she found on the beach

I am loathe to start going to the beach every day again, as it's an hour's round trip and basically it's 3 hours out of my day, all in, but I guess I am gonna have to suck it up. When do teenage dogs start to calm down again...?!?!?!

I am pretty sure it was a tantrum yesterday then. How funny! How do you keep your head when they do that? She pissed me RIGHT off yesterday, I was hoarse from yelling at her by the time we got home. I know it's not helpful, but clearly I have no self control around naughty dogs......

By the way Jax, I think mine has got a large dollop of GSD in her mix as well.

[feesh]

Just wanted to update that today's training session went fantastically well. When we got out of the car, the other dog was visible, but at a distance. My dog was pretty good about focussing on me, surprisingly, although there were a few occasions when I lost her completely, I found that marching purposefully off and walking her in a circle brought her back to me.

We got very close to the other dog after about half an hour and she was only interested in the liver I had in my hand! Brilliant!

And despite me being a complete wreck yesterday, something must have sunk in, because if she pulled on the lead today, I stopped, and she knew she had to give me some calm and serious eye contact before we would move off again. It was great!

It ended up with my dog sitting and the other dog being walked in circles around us about 1-2m away (and she was completely focussed on me the whole time), and then vice versa, and then we went for a walk together, both dogs walking to heel and her completely focussing on ME!

We even walked over to the wall where yesterday's incident occured, and she didn't react at all.

There were a few incidents when I lost her a bit, and she tried to go bowling off after her new friend, but 99% of the time, she was totally under control and we let them have a few breaks of off-lead puppy play time.

I feel SO much better now. Life is quite artificial over here, as you have to be careful where you walk your dog and therefore you don't tend to bump into other dogs unless by prior arrangement. But at least I know that if we ever do go back to England, I will be able to walk her along a canal towpath or through a busy park and with a bit of work, I will have an UNDER CONTROL dog. That's all I want. Phew.

We are meeting again on Saturday for more of the same - it will be interesting to see how she reacts to seeing this dog in the distance, now she knows that the dog is her friend and a good potential playmate.

[twange]

Well done!!! what a day you had.. one extreme to the other lol!! at least you ended on the success story. My guess is you dog had soooo missed the beach that she threw the tantrum because she didn't want it to end and wasn't now sure it will happen again for a while? It sounds like one hell of a jaunt though! Maybe there's somewhere nearer you can let her off-lead and/or have her running all over the place with a ball?

Just another thought.. a long time ago I was trying to get my yorkie to become more tolerant of other dogs, so arranged for him to have a walk with friend's GSD. At first my yorkie was completely balistic and frenzied, so I let GSD go ahead of us and waited till mine was calm. Then I walked on but as soon as mine even slightly kicked off I just did an 'about turn' and walked the other way. This took the wind right out of his sails!! Then I turned and followed again and kept reapeating this. In the end I was walking along side GSD!! Maybe worth a try in a tantrum situation?? I think they just hate going back on themselves!!

[feesh]

Thanks Twange. What you've described is pretty much what we did yesterday. I know the beach is a massive hassle, but I live in a Muslim country and it's difficult to find safe places to go with a dog - it really is our only option unfortunately for a proper run.

[JaxTellerIsMyFriend]

I know the beach is a PITA for you, but your pup needs to run off energy and they all seem to love the beach and that sea air wears them out.

Well done on the focus work. That is very good, be proud of yourself and puppy.

hmm... the teenage years they last until about 1.5 depending on breed, or longer is you have working line GSDs like mine! (2years mentally and physically)

I have started long lining my pupstar again, just to refocus her when we are out. 99% of the time she is perfect but lately she has started to wander off with her ball and ignore me, little minx.

Like twange has said - walking away from any 'situation' helps enormously. It gets the dog focus back on you, removes the 'fun' stimulation and once calm you repeat.

Rinse and repeat.

[feesh]

Yeah I've started long lining her again too. Minimuu put the frighteners on me by saying that she didn't actually have proper recall unless I could get her to walk past a load of sausages - eeeeek! I'm not sure we will ever get to that stage, but it's worth a try!

I don't actually use a long line, I use a 15m length of ribbon, which is much lighter, so she doesn't know she's wearing it until I stand on it. It certainly works at breaking the distraction if she's about to stick her head into something interesting.

Yesterday we were at the beach and the ribbon kept getting all tangly in the wind, so I decided to take it off. The very second it was off, the little minx ran about 500m across the beach to visit a very distant dog!

Thankfully, she came back, and not only did she come back, but she kept her total focus on my bag of treats me even though the other dog followed her all the way back again.

I was very proud, until she later buggered off in the other direction to her favourite chicken BBQ burial ground on the other side of a small peninsula, and she didn't re-surface for another 20 minutes.

[JaxTellerIsMyFriend]

feesh she is still a puppy though, so dont be discouraged. A ribbon. lawks, dont think a ribbon would work on my heavy lump GSDs. She doesnt mind the long line on her at all. Didnt use it today and she went and lay down with her ball when she was tired and wouldnt come back to me.

I just ignored her and played with my other dog until she came back to my side.

more 1/1 needed with madame.

[minimuu]

I didn't say you didn't have a "proper recall". Just that you had a problem with recall when there were mega distractions.

Re this thread your dog was just way over threshold, move back from the original situation and then ask for watch me etc. Gradually move closer

[RedwingWinter]

Walking past a load of sausages without scoffing them? Yikes! That is a test!!!

It sounds like you are doing well, feesh. It takes time, all this dog training, especially when we are training ourselves in the process.