What should we do about a puppy now?

[Solo2]

We identified a good golden retriever breeder some time ago, visited her and have been waiting for a puppy. The first bitch and stud mating didn't work and it was found that that bitch couldn't conceive. The breeder tried next to mate two more of her bitches (these are all pedigree champion, healthy ones) with a different and specially selected stud dog. Just had sad news that this hasn't worked either....

The breeder has emailed me to say that one of her bitches that lives elsewhere and is joint shared with someone who lives actually closer to us, has had puppies 3 weeks ago and there might be one for us if we wanted it. We only want a male.

However, I know nothing about the pedigree/ health/ hip scores of this bitch nor the dog she mated with. I don't know anything about the owner she lives with or what conditions the puppies have been born into.

I've waited my entire life for a puppy and although we (9 yr old twins and I) are very keen and ready now to get one, I'm hesitant to go for one from a place and litter and parents I don't know, just because the bitch who's given birth is from the original breeder we liked....

Can anyone advise me? What questions should I be asking? Should I stay patient and wait for a different mating from the breeder at some point in the future?

She has a waiting list but had told us that we were second on the list for a male puppy.

[midori1999]

I am so disappointed for you. It's so pants that good breeders struggle sometimes to get a well planned and thought out litter and yet irresponsible BYB's manage them 'accidentally'. Especially when there are potential owners waiting.

If you want to message me the name of the breeder/parent dogs concerned I may know of them and their reputation. I would imagine though that if it is someone Margaret has recommended they will fit all the 'correct' criteria.

If I were in your position I would probably wait, but that is because if I were to get another puppy from another breeder, I would want very specific bloodlines and type. I think if you are looking for a pet then your criteria would be different and so this other litter would certainly be worth considering.

It's probably a good idea to speak to the 'new' breeder and maybe go to meet them if distance permits and then decide.

[PurpleFrog]

I think you should investigate this litter. You would be mad not to. If you trust the original breeder's judgement, she would not be recommending this litter to you if there were any problems.

Easter time would be a great time to get a puppy! The fact that the litter is closer to you is great! If the bitch is jointly owned you potentially have 2 breeders to ask for advice after you get your puppy.

[Solo2]

Thanks and also midori - for PMing me.

I've now talked v briefly to the breeder and to the other breeder who has a puppy available....I'm going to talk more with her tonight but my first issue is that she has only one remaining male pup and I feel uncertain about not having any choice at all from a litter - given I've waited almost 48 yrs to get a dog at all....

Others who've chosen to get a puppy from a breeder will identify with this, I'm sure. Part of the process is about choosing the right puppy for you and if there's no choice at all, it feels...not quite OK....

I'm just not sure what to do now. It's not that i think the available puppy won't be OK. I'm sure it'll be fine - but it won't have bene 'chosen' by us.....

[AllTheYoungDoods]

It's possible you're overthinking this

I totally know how you're feeling though, as we chose our breeder first, and there was only one suitable dog in the litter we wanted, who wasn't the most outgoing pup there. However, any qualms we had about him being too quiet and small have been rapidly dispensed with - he is now an enormous bouncy ball of fun.

I suspect some of his negative training tendencies do stem from the things that we worried about when he was 8 weeks old, but there are so so many thousands of positives that outweigh it, and we will simply never know if we'd gone for his bigger, more forward sister if we'd right now be dealing with a whole different set of puppy issues!

Fundamentally, once you've found the line of dogs you want with good temperament and sound health, and you do your bit with socialisation and training, you'll end up with a loving family pet. You'll stop wondering 'what if...?' pretty soon!

[PurpleFrog]

Choosing a pup is difficult. If they are only 3 weeks old, as you said in your original post, you won't really get to see their "characters" anyway.

We chose our pup at 4 weeks - over half the (large) litter had already been reserved. I couldn't decide. They were too young to really play with. We had originally intended to get a smallish bitch.... but dd had set her heart on the puppy she was holding - a largish boy. We agreed - eventually - and I spent the next month panicking that we had made the wrong decision.

But he is great! :)

[minimu1]

You have to feel happy but to be honest it is so hard to "pick" a puppy at that age. Some can look so alike the breeder puts nail varnish on them to identify the puppies.

What do you want from a puppy?
A male
A healthy dog
A dog with a good temperament
Make your list and see if this is what the breeder can offer you - if yes go for it!

[midori1999]

Good luck chatting to the breeder tonight.

One thing I have just thought of is, are the pups actually even chosen yet or does she just know she has one dog puppy left? It's unusual for owners to have even seen them by 3 weeks, let alone picked them out, so although she has one boy left, she may not yet know which one it is.

[Solo2]

Thanks everyone. That's very helpful (and to midori who's been in touch offlist too !

Now I'm beginning to feel more confident about seriously considering this puppy -which I know is a male - but that's all I know. I'm evern beginning to let myself get a tiny bit excited - but we've had so many disappointments so far that I daren't really let this bubble up too much!

I'll see what the breeder says tonight and then my plan would be to visit very soon - and look at the pup - all being well

My absolute ideal is a healthy, large, chunky very pale cream coloured male who isn't too shy - as I have two boisterous twin boys - and is ready and willing for lots of clicker training!

[Solo2]

Have now talked to the breeder. She has just bred 3 different litters more or less around the same time because she's moving to smaller premises soon, so can't breed so much there, she says.

However, we would definitely only have a choice of one male or very possibly - one of two. She says the palest males have all been chosen already. She also suggested I look at other possible breeders who only breed pale golden retrievers but I've spent the last 6 months finding and meeting a particular breeder miles away from us and it'd be hard to know who, locally, was good or not, without having to start again really....

I told her I'd call tomorrow to say whether or not we'll go and look at the puppies on Sunday. It'd be difficult to meet all the puppies knowing that only one of the males that wasn't necessarily our choice, would be allotted to us after everyone else has chosen theirs - and I'd have my DCs with me, who are bound to find it hard too....

I think I'm finding it hard in any case to suddenly switch to a new breeder with whom we don't yet have any kind of relationship, as we developed with the other one....

Incidentally, she gave me hip scores for the 3 bitches who've whelped and the two males but hasn't got elbow scores for most of them as she says you didn't need them until recently?? Hip scores are 3:3; 4:6; 5:5; for the females and 3:3; 3:4 for the males. Do those sound good?

Slightly apprehensive about how she's coping with three new litters at the same time. Should I be worried?

[musicposy]

Just a word on the choosing thing. We got our puppy from a friend of ours who had a litter of pups. I wanted a female but the other females in the litter had all been taken. Poppy was the only female left - and we knew we wanted a female.

It felt a bit of a shame because she wouldn't have been our first choice. The others had prettier colouring and prettier faces, and one of the other females, the one I would have preferred, seemed a much sweeter and more docile character. However, we wanted one of these pups so we went with it, although I felt a bit disappointed we had no choice. I know how you feel because I had DDs with me and it was hard looking at the other pups and knowing we couldn't have them.

10 months on and I'm so glad we had no choice and got Poppy! I absolutely adore her and she is the most wonderful, loving dog you could possibly imagine. We've since visited the one I would have chosen (as my friend still has her) and I honestly think Poppy was the better choice now - she's a more loving nature and adores us so much. I also think she's turned out prettier!! I think in retrospect that it's very hard to look at a litter of pups and know how they will turn out. I haven't regretted her being the one we got for one single instant.

I'd go along on Sunday and look and keep an open mind. Tell the children it is just to look.

[MmeLindt]

I agree with Musicposy.

We did not have the choice when we got our puppy, she was the only pup left. She was the "runt" of the litter, much smaller, quieter and timider than the other more boisterous males.

She is such a fab dog. Her confidence grew, she is loyal and charming, totally sweet-natured. In comparison with the rest of the litter (3 of whom still live in the village) she is the best looking one.

Everyone who has come to stay with us has wanted to take her home. Even those who don't like dogs.

We told the DC that a woman we knew had puppies and had asked if we wanted to come and play with them. I stressed that we were not getting one (DH was not keen and I wasn't sure he would agree)

[midori1999]

Hip scores are good, well below the breed average of 18 and evenly matched on both sides. (eg. 3:3 is better than 0:6 even though the overall score is still 6)

I would be a little concerned about someone breeding 3 litters so close together, although I suppose there is the possibility that she had lots of people waiting for puppies so has bred to waiting lists, especially as she only has one pup left. (I still wouldn't do it and don't really agree with it, but it is more acceptable in certain circumstances than others and knowing the amount of litters this breeder and her bitches have had, she does not usually breed excessively)

I have actually just realised that we have never chosen a puppy from another breeder. As I said, Margaret chose our puppy from her and when we got our current oldest girl, we were second on the list for a bitch pup and there were only two in the litter. We wanted a darker pup and she was the palest. We couldn't love her more.

I do think it's worth looking at this pup. It's hard not to fall in love with any puppy, there won't be a huge amount of difference between a good litter and you may find he is just right for you.

On the other hand, I appreciate you've built a good relationship with Margaret, so if you're prepared to wait, then do.

I think it makes sense to either wait or consider the pup from this breeder, rather than having to start again and look for someone new. Most of the good breeders I know in your area tend to breed dual purpose dogs, so they tend to not be very pale.

[midori1999]

Just to add, usuallu the size of the puppy does not dictate the size of the adult dog. All litter mates in a well bred pedigree litter shoudl end up roughly the same size. Certainly the girl we had back from our last litter was the biggest and bolshiest and she is the same size as her litter sister who was the smallest in the litter and far easier in terms of behaviour and training now!

[Solo2]

Thanks. We're going to see the breeder and the puppies on Sunday. You've all been very reassuring - certainly enough to want to at least see the puppies and breeder/ conditions etc. I expect that once we see puppies, we'll not be able to say no to any one of them in any case! - unless I can feel a really bad vibe about the whole thing.

The breeder is very busy right now - with all three litters and lots of people coming to see them, inlcuding a few people who are choosing show dogs - hence want the paler ones. I can barely get to talk to her on the phone, so I still can't get the right 'feel' about her.

I suppose we'll know a lot more after sunday. IF we got one of the pups, it'd be ready around 20th March, I think - which is fairly soon! I'm sort of filled with excitement and trepidation - like I was when trying to conceive and then getting pregnant at last!

[PurpleFrog]

I'm glad! I think you have planned this puppy so carefully that anything other than a pup from your chosen breeder seems like second best. But that is almost certainly not the case.

It sounds like these pups are in great demand, especially from people who know about the breed - so they must be good!

Just go along with an open mind.... and I will keep my fingers crossed

[Solo2]

We're getting one!

We've just come back from the breeders and ALL the puppies from all 3 litters looked gorgeous and healthy and so did all the adult dogs there too. we met the mothers and one of the fathers and saw a photo of the other father. There are only 2 possible puppies but we can't yet know exactly which ones they are but saw 4 possibly possible ones - but even then might not have those - but it really doesn't matter - as we fell in love with them all!

I am VERY excited! I am far more excited than my sons - but that's because I've waited a lifetime to get a puppy. In 2 weeks time we'll go back and know then - probably - which puppy we'll have and I think there might even be one (depending on which litter) to take home then - or else a week later.

This feels very very soon and I've not yet got anything at all for the puppy...must get shopping now! This reminds me of having premature twin DCs and having nothing bought for them in advance either!

One of my DCs is still a bit apprehensive about getting the puppy (he has Asperger's traits and is afraid of new things of any kind) but dogs alwasy seem to make a beeline for him and are all over him. So I'm sure he'll be fine. The other DC is v happy and excited - but I'm more excited than either of them really! I can't believe it's really happening so soon!

Thanks for all the reassurances from everyone about this - and especially thanks Midori for messaging offlist and on list, recommending the first breeder who then passed us on to this breeder I am SO excited!!!!

[chickchickchicken]

so pleased for you

was reading the thread a few days ago and hoping it all worked out well for you

my son has aspergers too and having our first dog was the best thing we ever did to help him cope with daily living. dog is 14 now and we have had her since son was 5. we used to do lots of role playing and found when son thought about how x situation would affect dog he learnt how to cope with things better himself.

its good you are more excited than kids as you will probably be doing most of the work

[SlubberKongWubba]

Oh how exciting Solo

So glad it has all worked out for you.

[ditavonteesed]

bet they are gorgeous. good luck.

[PurpleFrog]

I'm glad it has worked out for you .... at last!

[Solo2]

Thanks everyone!

I'm incredibly excited and wondering where I'll get time to get all the stuff we need and everything sorted out for the puppy, as it's a lot sooner than expected. I'll know, I think, by 13th March whether we'll have the pick of two puppies or just one only that's left available and depending on which litter he's from, we'll either get him on the 20th March or the 27th March!!

It was quite reassuring talking to the breeder because I realised that I now know quite a lot about having a puppy/ a dog and also when we recently has a pre-puppy training course, I didn't really learn anything new.

Most of what I know has come from this section of MN and book recommendations from here too. You are all brilliant and very helpful indeed .

I may well have loads more questions for the list from now on, as the fantasy of having a puppy becomes a reality and I'm dealing with sleepless nights, mess, training, mouthing and everything doggy!

[JaxTellersOldLady]

So pleased you have finally been able to get to see a puppy that you can have!

I just wanted to say, when we went to look at GSDs shortly after we lost our old boy, Loofa was the only one left, he wouldnt have been my first choice out of that litter but fate intervened and he is a fab dog... Roll on another year and we chose another dog from the same breeder, well bitch actually.

We had the pick of the litter! Now, that was a terrible thing to do as I could easily have chosen any one of the dogs/bitches and I had decided to get an all black bitch. I knew the puppies since they had been born and in the end I chose another sable!

Having a choice isnt always a good thing solo

Cant wait to see your new addition.

[MmeLindt]

Hurrah.

Don't worry about getting stuff in time, we only had about a week to prepare when we got Daphne.

Any thoughts on names yet?