Sherlock episode 2 thread!

(374 Posts)
Allthingsprettyreturns Sun 05-Jan-14 20:38:21

Who is with me?

OddBoots Sun 05-Jan-14 20:39:33

I am. smile

Nerfmother Sun 05-Jan-14 20:42:27

Hated the beginning. It's like a parody. Hope it gets better.

Allthingsprettyreturns Sun 05-Jan-14 20:44:18

Ha ha at the interview with the usher

OldRoan Sun 05-Jan-14 20:47:00

Does anyone know where they filmed the wedding reception? It is beautiful.

Missed the first 4 minutes washing my hair (and DP is no use because he was bellowing me to hurry up because I was missing it).

Nerfmother Sun 05-Jan-14 20:48:33

Oh noooo. What have they done? It's really really bad.

Nerfmother Sun 05-Jan-14 20:55:16

Where are you all then?

OddBoots Sun 05-Jan-14 20:56:45

Are we meant to be crying with laughter? dh and I certainly are. It doesn't seem right.

I've found it amusing so far.

Nerfmother Sun 05-Jan-14 20:58:54

Are you? I'm too cross with the whole hilarious socially inept/aspergers type at a wedding. It's so predictable.
I may have to stop watching if it's just going to be some stupid comedy. Bit murder she wrote.

StrawberryMojito Sun 05-Jan-14 20:59:14

This is crap, it's like they asked Richard Curtis to direct an episode.

Allthingsprettyreturns Sun 05-Jan-14 20:59:29

Aww his speech

Nerfmother Sun 05-Jan-14 20:59:34

Thank god. Voice of reason grin

bisjo Sun 05-Jan-14 21:00:22

It's all a bit obvious and expected, almost a caricature of what we expect it to be.

moggiek Sun 05-Jan-14 21:00:55

Oh, that was really moving ......

RedToothBrush Sun 05-Jan-14 21:01:24

Well... he has a point about most weddings tbh.

Wedding Venue looks VERY similar to St Audries in Somerset. Its not, but its very similar.

StrawberryMojito Sun 05-Jan-14 21:02:00

Get to the murders and intrigue!

RedToothBrush Sun 05-Jan-14 21:03:22

So thats half an hour and the plot has gone nowhere so far...

Love how Mary fits in, she's great!

Nerfmother Sun 05-Jan-14 21:03:57

Very self aware. If he was so aware if being inept, why play to it? What a load of tosh that speech was.

StrawberryMojito Sun 05-Jan-14 21:04:19

And I bet the brides pregnant, that's why she couldn't stomach the wine.

extracrunchy Sun 05-Jan-14 21:06:09

This is crap...

stillenacht Sun 05-Jan-14 21:07:38

Nerfmother have to agree with you.

bisjo Sun 05-Jan-14 21:10:09

Of course he can just walk in to army barracks confused

Nerfmother Sun 05-Jan-14 21:11:11

Another voice to the add to the quiet chorus, stillenacht!

Allthingsprettyreturns Sun 05-Jan-14 21:12:09

Here is your.intrigue...

RedToothBrush Sun 05-Jan-14 21:19:51

Exterior shots filmed at Goldney Orangery (Bristol University).

Interior shots seem to be somewhere else though.

Nerfmother Sun 05-Jan-14 21:20:29

Why didn't he check if he was alive first of all? Rather than suddenly realising mid 'autopsy' ? This gets worse.

Allthingsprettyreturns Sun 05-Jan-14 21:21:35

Was the case solved involving the solfier!BBC I Player froze..

Nerfmother Sun 05-Jan-14 21:22:01

And why would the army let him near the body unless it was to check off he was alive?

Nerfmother Sun 05-Jan-14 21:22:35

I'm soooo disappointed by this. Poor me, and in sorry for being such a grinch.

bisjo Sun 05-Jan-14 21:23:36

This series really doesn't have any spark or interest. Such a shame after the previous series that was so good.

Froblawd Sun 05-Jan-14 21:24:11

I've also been complaining to DH that this is very disappointing. I expect more from Mark Gatiss. I want murder and mystery.

stillenacht Sun 05-Jan-14 21:25:26

I'm bored of it tbh. (And I am the biggest Martin Freeman fan)hmm

RedToothBrush Sun 05-Jan-14 21:26:04

The problem is not the script as such imho. The problem is stringing it out for 1h 30mins instead of 45mins.

OddBoots Sun 05-Jan-14 21:26:16

It's like a spoof. It has to kick in soon, right?

Allthingsprettyreturns Sun 05-Jan-14 21:26:33

Was the sildier case sol ed?can someonr twll me??

ExcuseTypos Sun 05-Jan-14 21:26:51

I'm so disappointed. sad

NOTHING is happening.

stillenacht Sun 05-Jan-14 21:26:51

Yes RedToothBrush its painfully slow

Nerfmother Sun 05-Jan-14 21:27:10

It is exactly like a spoof. Like some shit freshers week spoof.
I really really hope this is a one off cba episode.

bisjo Sun 05-Jan-14 21:27:46

A longer episode length should give more time for a story to develop but the stories in this episode and the last are thin and have no tension or intrigue.

Nerfmother Sun 05-Jan-14 21:27:51

All things. Did the I player really stop working as your posting suggests wine may be involved grin

StrawberryMojito Sun 05-Jan-14 21:27:55

No, he said he didn't know the answer to the soldier case and it bothered him. We better bloody find out by the end of the episode.

This is so bad.

Allthings- No, Sherlock admitted he didn't solve it.

bisjo Sun 05-Jan-14 21:29:21

It seems as if they had the production schedule fixed but ran out of time for any story development prior to filming.

Froblawd Sun 05-Jan-14 21:31:36

This has 30 mins to suddenly become amazing.

Marylou2 Sun 05-Jan-14 21:32:40

Terrible. Sherlock would never say serviette. Who wrote this rubbish?

Nerfmother Sun 05-Jan-14 21:32:53

Can it actually gets worse? He's fallen asleep on the shag pile.
And been sick.
FFS how can they ever get back to the brilliance of the first series?

there is bound to be one episode off the wall so enjoy this one for what it is and normal service will be resumed next week

OodlesofOods Sun 05-Jan-14 21:33:15

There's good bits but the lack of big story is frustrating

Allthingsprettyreturns Sun 05-Jan-14 21:34:13

No wine just a shit typist om this phone

RedToothBrush Sun 05-Jan-14 21:36:16

and normal service will be resumed next week

but there is only 3 episodes in the series!!

Nerfmother Sun 05-Jan-14 21:40:00

How can you leave comments to make sure they never do this again?

StrawberryMojito Sun 05-Jan-14 21:44:53

Finally starting to get good with 15 mins to go.

Marylou2 Sun 05-Jan-14 21:45:44

Curiouser and curiouser as Alice would say.

Nerfmother Sun 05-Jan-14 21:48:36

I'd have escaped to the bar by now.

Nerfmother Sun 05-Jan-14 21:49:32

Would there not be heckling now? Or do I just go to not very posh weddings?

OodlesofOods Sun 05-Jan-14 21:49:54

I said something earlier about something hidden in clothes.

RedToothBrush Sun 05-Jan-14 21:53:38

And that is the reason you should get one of your mates to do your wedding photography instead of spending thousands of pounds for it.

That and don't have someone in the wedding party to upstage you.

OodlesofOods Sun 05-Jan-14 21:56:33

grin at the MN pregnancy predictor being right for once.

StrawberryMojito Sun 05-Jan-14 21:56:58

Told you!!

Nerfmother Sun 05-Jan-14 21:57:27

OFGS that is IT!

bisjo Sun 05-Jan-14 21:58:50

That's 1.5 hours I won't get back. Dire.

Allthingsprettyreturns Sun 05-Jan-14 21:59:54

Poas withj a sherlockian twist!

I would love to see Sherlock im aibu

OddBoots Sun 05-Jan-14 21:59:55

Well. I'm not sure. I think I enjoyed it, I certainly laughed, just not quite what I was expecting.

Nerfmother Sun 05-Jan-14 22:00:13

Especially as thanks to the wanky speech we now know Sherlock thinks he is a ridiculous man, is terribly aware of his shortcomings etc rather than genuinely not understanding social stuff. Which makes it all a bit pointless.

RustyBear Sun 05-Jan-14 22:01:33

I think the wedding venue may be the same one as Amy and Rory's in Doctor Who.

Marylou2 Sun 05-Jan-14 22:01:42

Don't let him be the godfather. He'll be reprising this pile of crap at the christening.

TimeToPassGo Sun 05-Jan-14 22:02:36

Enjoyable but a bit silly. Last 20 minutes were a bit more exciting. This whole series is a bit too self indulgent for me. Not what I was hoping for!

OrangePixie Sun 05-Jan-14 22:02:52

It was different but still good. I laughed a lot.

Seems quite final though, am not sure there'll be a fourth series.

Smartiepants79 Sun 05-Jan-14 22:03:14

Going against the grain here but I really enjoyed it. Hilarious.
The wedding one was bound to be a bit different.
I love Mary. She's great.
Think next one will be a bit grittier.

Nerfmother Sun 05-Jan-14 22:03:21

Oh it is so shit. 'Well you're hardly going to need me around when you've got a real baby on the way'
So he knows exactly what he is like. How utterly shite.
Can't believe how cross I am! Think it's because I never watch tv, so now I'm down to the mentalist and that's it!

I enjoyed it, but it felt a bit like a wasted episode. I really like Mary now though.

RedToothBrush Sun 05-Jan-14 22:03:58

Amy and Rory's wedding was filmed at Miskin Manor. Different location.

I love google.

Marylou2 Sun 05-Jan-14 22:04:34

Much prefer Elementary at the moment. Better entertainment.

redshoes Sun 05-Jan-14 22:05:02

What was the motive for the murderer killing the guardsman?? I must have missed that...

OrangePixie Sun 05-Jan-14 22:06:38

The guardsman was a practice run

Marylou2 Sun 05-Jan-14 22:06:53

Practise run I think redshoes.Totally random.

KirstyJC Sun 05-Jan-14 22:07:16

It was a rehearsal. To see if it worked.

Not too impressed with this episode either, but LOVE Mary!

ExcuseTypos Sun 05-Jan-14 22:07:35

I think we just expect more from it, it's usually so exciting.

Lottapianos Sun 05-Jan-14 22:09:02

Quite enjoyed it but far too much going on. Have a sore head now. BC is such an amazing actor though, he held all the weirdness together. The drunk stuff was funny but went on for far too long.

CarolineKnappShappey Sun 05-Jan-14 22:09:24

I thought it was great. Genuinely moving, and a bit exciting

redshoes Sun 05-Jan-14 22:10:12

Ah thanks....

DaveBussell Sun 05-Jan-14 22:10:45

Amazing - how they managed to fill a whole episode with complete padding, that's genius hmm

redshoes Sun 05-Jan-14 22:10:59

Too long an episode for me!

TwatWeevil Sun 05-Jan-14 22:12:19

DH and I really enjoyed it too.

Although I saw the photographer/belt/pregnancy a mile off. I prefer it to be a bit trickier than that.

FamiliesShareGerms Sun 05-Jan-14 22:12:50

Mary is great, but really that episode (and the last one) really should have been edited down to an hour

roastchesnutlatte Sun 05-Jan-14 22:13:10

Watching it with ds who prompted win the last fifteen minutes with " mum watch it, something's happening now " pretty much summed it up, pile of tosh

FamiliesShareGerms Sun 05-Jan-14 22:13:24

Really really...sorry.....

orangegroves Sun 05-Jan-14 22:14:42

Why why why does Steven Moffat write such caricature women? Such a corny ending. Ok, let Sherlock guess she's pregnant, but I wanted Mary to slap him round the face and tell him to shut up, she was going to tell John later. NOT be all blushing, what me? Little me, who clearly has no idea about contraception, conception, and periods! biscuit

WorrySighWorrySigh Sun 05-Jan-14 22:18:43

It was brilliant, loved it.

Itsaburrdiee Sun 05-Jan-14 22:19:33

I enjoyed it!

HettiePetal Sun 05-Jan-14 22:20:15

I think the pregnancy has sounded Mary's death knell - there's no way the dynamic of the show can continue when John has a wife and kid.

Unless they're planning some dreadful Uncle Sherlock the babysitter scenes shock

She'll either turn out to be the big bad (along with Lars) or, sorry, not survive next week.

As a piece of drama, I liked it. As an episode of Sherlock, I didn't. And I also spotted the answer to the murder immediately - and I'm Thickie McThick about this stuff usually.

Nerfmother Sun 05-Jan-14 22:22:17

Oh god, hilarious Sherlock doing a nappy scenes. Hilarious burping scenes. Hilarious why is it making the noise scenes. Hilarious putting it in dangerous situations scenes.
Please god kill her off instead.

NoComet Sun 05-Jan-14 22:22:44

Yes far too much padding and OTT camera effects.
Still want to fuck BC, though.

orangegroves Sun 05-Jan-14 22:23:10

Agree that Mary might turn out to be a deep cover baddie. <shudders at Sherlock the babysitter scenes>

NoComet Sun 05-Jan-14 22:24:38

Also I now have a totally hyper 15y DD1 who has school in the morning.

She's a total Sherlock addict, she's leaping about like a toddler fed Coca Cola and Blue M&Ms.

teejwood Sun 05-Jan-14 22:35:30

Evening all, i'm a bit conflicted. We only have 3 eps in the series, so am irked that so much time has been taken up with investigating and building the various relationships.

However, even slightly bobbins SH still has the benefit of being Sherlock with BC so I can't say I haven't enjoyed the two eps so far.

But why no Lars Mikkelsen in this ep when he's supposed to be the big bad?

I am actually hoping that Mary is a bad'un to make it all more worthwhile - as that would tie in with Sherlock's identification of her as a liar in ep 1 and his worried reaction to her reaction to her pg in this ep....

Ep 3 is going to be frantic tying it all together with the case of the week, isn't it?! And to have Lars Mikkelsen and not use him extensively would be criminal imho grin

Moln Sun 05-Jan-14 22:47:43

Well that was weird.

It made me laugh something silly, but thought they'd got Sherlock all wrong, far too aware of his lack of emotion and just far too considerate.

is there only one more?

TirAnna Sun 05-Jan-14 22:54:44

This being Moffat/Gatiss isn't it quite likely that the last episode's going to be UNRELENTING AWFULNESS and all this comedy fluff's just been build up to make it even worse? Maybe John ends up only being able to save one of Sherlock or Mary... That would explain all the emotional relationship building stuff, especially as he keeps mentioning how they're the two people he loves most and everything.

I actually quite enjoyed this episode - it was very un-Sherlock, but it did make me laugh. The belt/stabbing thing was a load of bollocks though grin

I did like the pissed deduction scene with the drunk words coming up on screen. Egg? Chair? Sitty thing?

HettiePetal Sun 05-Jan-14 23:04:00

According to a TV reviewer who's seen all three - we should not regard this as a standalone episode - but rather the whole series as one story told in three parts.

Also, there was a big clue in there somewhere pointing directly to sex god Lars Mikkelsen.

I predict that Sherlock leaving at the end was less to do with him feeling vulnerable & not really part of things and more to do with him having spotted that something was seriously amiss about Mary and going off to investigate.

(But I'm rarely right, tbf).

FrameyMcFrame Sun 05-Jan-14 23:05:02

Agree, it's not as good.
Is it a new writer?

It's too easy!!! Not like Sherlock at all...

ProphetOfDoom Sun 05-Jan-14 23:12:16

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ghostinthecanvas Sun 05-Jan-14 23:18:05

He promised to look after them. Going to go horribly wrong. I liked it. Sherlock has always been a larger than life figure.

RiffyWammal Sun 05-Jan-14 23:49:42

I didn't understand a lot of it.

1: The ex-colleague of Watson, Watson asked him where he was living now (so he didn't know) but later Sherlock deduced that the nurse woman had seen the wedding invitation. How did he have an invitation if they didn't know where he lived?

2: Why did the photographer go on dates with the women who worked for the ex-soldier. What did he get from them?

3. Sherlock said that all the women had a secret. What was their secret and how was it relevant?

4. How did the photographer get the job as photographer.

I think there was more but that's all I can think of for now.

All in all, quite a disappointing episode. I liked drunk Sherlock and Watson, but as PPs have mentioned it was wrong for Sherlock to become self-aware regarding his social skills.

RiffyWammal Sun 05-Jan-14 23:54:06

Oh yeah and why did Sherlock chat to all the women simultaneously on several different computers and laptops. Has he not heard of having multiple tabs open on one device? hmm

teejwood Mon 06-Jan-14 00:10:14

Hettie is LM "Red Beard" Mycroft referred to, then??

Riffy this is what I have assumed but others may have different opinions:
1. I would assume there were channels through which Watson could get the invitation to his old CO without knowing the address (eg am sure Mycroft could have helped deliver a message to an ex military man in hiding)
2. He was just going out with as many women as possible until he found one with a current connection to Watson's old CO - as he wanted to find a chink in the secrecy surrounding the ex-CO that would help him identify where the ex-CO would be at some point in time so he could kill him
3. Their secret was that they all were working for or had previously worked for Watson's old CO
4. We can assume that having found out the ex-CO had been invited to the wedding, somehow or other the photographer identified the photographer who had been booked and then either told him the booking was cancelled and took his place, or attacked him etc to ensure he could not make it - and took his place. OR someone helped him do it - and this actually may point towards Hettie's mention of LM playing a part in the ep..

teejwood Mon 06-Jan-14 00:14:50

Missed the last q - you could be charitable and say that he was simultaneously interviewing so many women it would have fried 1 or 2 laptops - or just say that it looked better that way on telly wink

Nerfmother Mon 06-Jan-14 00:15:25

I think the wife chose the photographer. Knowing John had invited the army bloke.

Punkatheart Mon 06-Jan-14 00:21:03

The writers are making us laugh but I predict the next one to be very very dark.

I loved it. Thought it was very witty and really well acted.

I agree the next episode is going to be very dark to counterpoint the lightness if this one.

teejwood Mon 06-Jan-14 00:40:18

Also agree the next one is going to be fast, furious, and dark!
Nerf - good idea about Mary potentially inviting the photographer - that would add to our suspicions!

HettiePetal Mon 06-Jan-14 00:46:13

SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER

I think I'm a genius & I think I've figured out the clue. I'm so certain I'm right that, just in case, please don't read on if you don't want to know (although this is just my own thoughts).....

*
*
*
*

Sherlock gave Mary a very significant look after he'd announced the pregnancy.

We're all mums....what's the very, very first thing we all did/do when we find out we're pregnant, or suspect we might be? Well, Mary didn't do it!

OvO Mon 06-Jan-14 00:59:15

I love it!

You lot are hard to please. grin

But yes, think next episode will be dark and shocking, after making us laugh and go aww and get the warm and fuzzies the first two episodes. Well I've got the warm and fuzzies, most of you have the grumps. wink

Longdistance Mon 06-Jan-14 01:25:50

I thought the drunk scene was hilarious. Just so out of character for them.

However, I suspect Mary is not all she seems. If any of you remember, when SH first clapped eyes on her, several descriptions came onto the screen, one being LIAR.

Watch this space boys and girls...

OvO Mon 06-Jan-14 01:28:36

Oh and as for Sherlock being so self aware of his faults apparently. Well I think that's a new thing to him. The first two series I do think he genuinely didn't see them. But he's been different since he's come back. He's learnt this stuff about himself while away. Many hours missing John and wishing he'd been a better friend etc.

I think too much about this man. blush

olidusUrsus Mon 06-Jan-14 02:34:36

Mary better have a gruesome death because I can't stand it when characters get married off and settled down. Hoping it gets darker, this episode was poop and I do something I never do when Sherlock is on - pottered around for a bit filling in ACTUAL FORMS FOR RL STUFF.

FamiliesShareGerms Mon 06-Jan-14 07:11:55

Hettie, sorry, being dim here: what didn't Mary do??

LumpySpacePrincessOhMyGlob Mon 06-Jan-14 07:51:54

I have a completely different theory, which is probably wrong.

warning this could be complete bobbins

When it kept mentioning about Mary losing weight etc. I didn't think she was pregnant, I wondered if she was ill and lying about.

She keeps pushing John and Sherlock back together, I wonder if she is making plans for after her demise.

Moln Mon 06-Jan-14 08:15:54

She could die I suppose, Sherlock started to mention something about stats in the first trimester didn't he, but Watson stopped him.

Don't recall the 'liar' thing when Sherlock first saw Mary at all!!!

LucyLasticBand Mon 06-Jan-14 08:30:36

when sherlock does his brain map thing. or whatever it is called, all these words came up about mary. including liar. guardian reader. bilingual, can'trememberany more

yesterday episode well it didnt have mark gatiss name at top as the writer, it had steve tompkins, or something and mark's name last, which should have been ominous.

too much weird about sherlock.
funny in parts

OrangePixie Mon 06-Jan-14 08:36:55

I think these writers are so much smarter than us and they've deliberately given this odd (but brilliant) episode, probably knowing it might be unpopular, and they're going to whack us all with a sledgehammer in the last episode.

nameuschangeus Mon 06-Jan-14 08:44:50

Just had to stick my tuppence worth in here. I loved it.

But I thought it very significant the scene where Mary was standing in front of the stags head and appeared to have horns. She's a bad 'un I reckon. <taps nose>

givemeaclue Mon 06-Jan-14 08:46:56

Dh is a Conan Doyle fan and gets all the references, he says there is a story about someone being killed by a skewer. Major James is also a character in one of the books

givemeaclue Mon 06-Jan-14 08:47:11

Loved Molly's wedding outfit!

OrangePixie Mon 06-Jan-14 08:47:58

Stephen Moffat has just been on Radio 2. Said they are building toward something darker and next week will be an emotional roller coaster.

Also said series four was a certainty.

LucyLasticBand Mon 06-Jan-14 09:00:48

they are making another series, i read it somewhere.

i didnt like the ending that he gave away the pregnancy, to mary hmm

MrsReiver Mon 06-Jan-14 09:23:25

The only thing I can think of that Mary didn't do is touch her stomach, or am I over thinking it?

Punkatheart Mon 06-Jan-14 09:34:05

No there is someone who is killed by a pigmy with a pipe, which they referenced.

Watson is a widower in later stories. So make of that what you will. She has also been shown to be smarter and more cunning than Sherlock or Watson.

ExcuseTypos Mon 06-Jan-14 09:36:00

I think I'm going cancel everything I'm meant to do today inorder to watch both episodes again.

Just to make sure I've got all the references. Oh it's going to be a hard daywink

LumpySpacePrincessOhMyGlob Mon 06-Jan-14 09:43:53

There must be some significance about Mary having no family but only friends at the wedding too.

LucyLasticBand Mon 06-Jan-14 09:46:49

i am sure mary isnt a bad un. but pehraps she meets a bad end

firesidechat Mon 06-Jan-14 10:16:55

Dh is a Conan Doyle fan and gets all the references, he says there is a story about someone being killed by a skewer. Major James is also a character in one of the books

I agree givemeaclue. The series is based on the original books and a lot of these plots that people on here are finding so far fetched are from those books.

I would be amazed if Mary suddenly became a villain because she certainly wasn't in the books and I don't think that the current writers will change the storyline that much.

I loved the episode last night. Yes it is a bit self indulgent, but it was great entertainment - a bit sad, very funny and a lovely escape from the real world.

firesidechat Mon 06-Jan-14 10:24:05

Mary does die at some unspecified point in the books. I will be very upset if they kill her off any time soon.

squoosh Mon 06-Jan-14 10:45:47

I tuned in to last night's to see what all the fuss was about. My God, but what an absolutely self indulgent turd of an episode that was.

I made me quite angry that this is held up as the shining jewel in the crown of BBC drama. Flabby, self congratulatory nonsense.

wintera Mon 06-Jan-14 10:58:52

Squoosh - I wouldn't go by this ep to start off with. Watch the very first ep instead and see what you think.

I'm pretty sure one of the women being romanced by the photographer bloke was one of the women from Tittybangbang, she's also been in loads of comedy things but she's lost loads of weight! She's also gone blonde aswell. Also spotted one of the women from Horrible histories too.

DaveBussell Mon 06-Jan-14 11:07:10

Watched last night's again without all the bloody buffering from the iplayer and enjoyed it more this time.

I don't think Mary's a wrong 'un, they've gone to a lot of trouble to build up her character and a nice relationship with Sherlock. As someone said above Mary dies in the original book and I bet that's what they've got planned. Will also solve the problem of having an inconvenient new domestic life to distract Watson.

squoosh Mon 06-Jan-14 11:11:24

I remember watching an early episode and enjoying it, just couldn't believe how silly last night's episode was.

Also annoyed that Martin Freeman's real life wife got the job of Watson's wife. And they claim it isn't nepotism.

LucyLasticBand Mon 06-Jan-14 11:27:40

well they ahve worked together a lot if you look at their wiki pages. and she is good.

squoosh Mon 06-Jan-14 11:33:14

She's an okay actress as are thousands of other British actresses who don't happen to live with him. I think it's pretty outrageous.

gazzalw Mon 06-Jan-14 11:35:30

I didn't find it the best of episodes...and the whole wedding reception scene was painful to watch in parts.....

wintera Mon 06-Jan-14 11:37:26

Yeah to be fair, she is good in it. I rather like her. I'll be quite sad if anything happens to her next week.

Regarding the ep, I think the change in format just made people think wtf? It kind of reminded me of The x files in a very strange way. What I mean is, the x files was a serious show as everyone is aware I'm sure but towards the end of season two they suddenly did a really strange ep set in a circus and it was really funny. People were confused and didn't know what the hell to think. But the episode was good, just not what people were expecting or used to. Last night's Sherlock reminded me very much of that, so that's my take on it.

Punkatheart Mon 06-Jan-14 11:45:09

There are ridiculous, convoluted and bizarre plots in Doyle - so in that respect, it is very true to Sherlockian history.

Lozcat86 Mon 06-Jan-14 11:45:48

I'm in the minority but I loved last nights episode blush

firesidechat Mon 06-Jan-14 11:54:44

I've just seen a trailer for the next episode. Let's just say that those who prefer a more gritty Sherlock will be very happy I think.

wintera Mon 06-Jan-14 12:20:24

Loz - I liked it too you are not the only one. It was different, no doubt, but I liked it. Particularly liked Mycroft working out and checking out his flab, or lack of it!

Buggedoff Mon 06-Jan-14 12:30:48

I loved it. It was entertaining, and I didn't mind the fluffiness. Just what people needed on the last sunday of the Christmas holidays. But bring on the dark stuff next week.

guineapiglet Mon 06-Jan-14 12:32:19

Hi all

two camps here as well - kids thought it was brilliant, <and apparently the Twitter storm afterwards agreed!> we have loved all the Series of Sherlock, but did find this one a bit too long, could have been tweaked here and there, but there were some brilliant bits, esp ' The elephant in the room' and the drunk scene which was excellent comic acting - however like many of you, feel this is lull before the storm which will end in tears, probably for Mary, and as predicted be a return to form. We desperately need a super bad villain (Moriarty was utterly brilliant) and some deep Sherlock solving and thinking.

The support acting from Lestrade, Molly and the landlady were great too, it is a real team effort, lots of 'fluffiness' and love around, surely pointing the way to more sinister things.

As a complete aside, the grenadier guard who was murdered was utterly gooooooorgeous. <shallow>.

Punkatheart Mon 06-Jan-14 12:35:29

Ah but he wasn't murdered. He survived. Yum. I am doubly shallow.

IHaveSeenMyHat Mon 06-Jan-14 12:36:22

He was the actor who played Dean Thomas in the Harry Potter films.

I'm not sure how I feel about the episode. I do think it was a bit TOO fluffy and played for laughs. The drunken stuff was a bit overlong.

FuckingWankwings Mon 06-Jan-14 12:47:17

I liked it and it was great to see the two leads doing some top-quality comedy acting. Benedict's acting when John was trying to get across that yes, he was his best friend and therefore he wanted him as best man was priceless. Also liked their drunk scene, although I thought the throwing up and ending up arse-up on the rug was a bit too slapstick.

Didn't enjoy Mary's simpering when it was 'deduced' that she was pregnant. She's otherwise so clever, sharp and seems to be ahead of both John and Sherlock. I agree that it might all be part of a sinister character reveal/story arc that'll happen later.

Loved Mycroft on his treadmill in those almost-obscene running tights grin

Lurleene Mon 06-Jan-14 13:02:08

Bit of triv for fact fans - Alfred Enoch who played the young guard / Dean in Harry Potter is the son of the actor William Russell who played one of the Doctor's original companions, Ian Chesterton (in Doctor Who).

PigWhisperer Mon 06-Jan-14 13:02:35

I am having really mixed feelings about it. I am not sure if I like Sherlock's new self awareness and I wonder what it means for his character and the way his brain works.

I did love what he said, so tender and romantic and Mark Gatiss is a real romantic from the interviews I have read. I just can't imagine those words coming from Sherlock's mouth!

Lots of lovely small points, interviewing the Usher, elephant in the room,

Dean Thomas has grown ahem

Mary is very interesting. How did she know what a "skip code" was in the first episode? The fact she is an orphan feels ready for a story too.

nipersvest Mon 06-Jan-14 13:05:13

i enjoyed it, am liking the character of mary too.

Greeneyed Mon 06-Jan-14 13:05:59

Squoosh has nailed it. Sentimental and self congratulatory twaddle. I was knackered and stayed up 90 minutes to watch that - I'll never get the time back!

wintera Mon 06-Jan-14 13:31:26

Something was mentioned last night about Mary When Sherlock was reading the telegrams. Someone sent one that said something like 'if only your family were here to see your wedding day' .

Abra1d Mon 06-Jan-14 13:34:19

I lost patience with this episode around the halfway mark. It picked up at the end, though. Too bitty, with all the flashbacks.

OddBoots Mon 06-Jan-14 14:19:56

wintera That one was sent by 'Cam' - which happens to be the initials of the baddie we see more of next week.

wintera Mon 06-Jan-14 14:30:38

Oh well there you go then! I'm gonna watch it again and see if I can spot More clues!

RiffyWammal Mon 06-Jan-14 16:12:34

Hmm I still haven't found any satisfactory answers to the bits I didn't understand which I detailed in my previous post. Am I a bit dim? Do the rest of you understand everything that happened?

Another bit I didn't understand is when all the women who had met the Mayfly Man were in the courtroom, and SH went through them and discounted most of them until he was left with a small group, all of whom worked for the soldier guy. How. How and why did he discount the others. How.

Sorry, it's beginning to annoy me now that it doesn't all make sense to me, and the reviews and recaps I've read haven't shed any light! confused

teejwood Mon 06-Jan-14 16:17:38

Ohhh - yes, Wintera - had spotted that message and that she looked fairly discomfited. Could CAM have a hold over her/be using her in a way that even if she isn't a baddie per se she's part of his grand plan - albeit unwillingly?

And she gave off vibes that pregnancy was not part of the plan once Sherlock had done his 'reveal'.

Even with their surprise, it was odd that John and Mary didn't hug each-other or smile at each other (iirc) or something. They were both more irked they had not spotted the signs before Sherlock. Or perhaps the pg was part of the plan that was not supposed to be revealed as yet? You'd think a doctor and receptionist would know whether or not they were using contraception effectively wink but more than that - it almost looked that this is something they had not really discussed, which is odd for two such obvious planners...

And following on from that - was Mrs Hudson's skit on her ex (loved the whole "TMI!" reaction to that from John) a foreshadowing that John really does not know who Mary is and what she is involved in? Just a thought...

Punkatheart Mon 06-Jan-14 16:21:24

1, the ex-colleague of Watson, Watson asked him where he was living now (so he didn't know) but later Sherlock deduced that the nurse woman had seen the wedding invitation. How did he have an invitation if they didn't know where he lived?

The army would have a record of their soldiers and retired soldiers - invitation would have been sent through them presumably, or sent to his old address and then mail redirected.

2: Why did the photographer go on dates with the women who worked for the ex-soldier. What did he get from them?

He was seeking revenge and so he wanted to find info and a vulnerable time at which he could strike. One date was enough. If he didn't find anything he wanted - then he moved on.

3. Sherlock said that all the women had a secret. What was their secret and how was it relevant?

Their secret was that they all worked covertly for the same man.

4. How did the photographer get the job as photographer.

Not difficult to find where the photographer worked and then nobble him. Temporarily put him out of action somehow.

I think there was more but that's all I can think of for now.

All in all, quite a disappointing episode. I liked drunk Sherlock and Watson, but as PPs have mentioned it was wrong for Sherlock to become self-aware regarding his social skills.

Punkatheart Mon 06-Jan-14 16:24:49

Sorry - cut and pasted too much from Riffy - but that's pretty much it.

mostlyharmless Mon 06-Jan-14 16:28:09

I liked it. I think it was showing Sherlock coming out from Mycroft's influence - he was there in his mind a lot when he was working things out, which ended up with him shouting 'Not you!' at him. And the conversation they had when Mycroft talked about 'getting involved' and that it would be back to the good old days soon of just the two of them. It always seemed to be Mycroft's idea that to be brilliant you had to focus completely and exclude any human emotion or complications. So it's not that Sherlock is innately emotionless or inept in that way, he made the choice to become like that, back when he was considered 'the stupid one' when it was just him and Mycroft.

And now John's influence, and possibly Mary's as well, as the wedding must have been a few months in the planning at least, is meaning that his lighter and more human side is coming through, and he's understanding more, though finding it hard to change. All makes sense to me I may have over-thought this

Missboobyvontits Mon 06-Jan-14 16:35:43

Anyone else think that Sherlock and John's relationship is quite similar to Sheldon and Leonard's of BBT?

SophieWilson Mon 06-Jan-14 16:37:57

I love Mary, she's brilliant!

mostlyharmless Mon 06-Jan-14 16:39:46

I was thinking about that actually too, and I think Sherlock is quite different to Sheldon, because of the fact that it was a choice for Sherlock, and he can learn to let it go a bit, whereas Sheldon is a bit of a lost cause I think. (The Sheldon/Amy relationship is really annoying me.)

Sadoldbear Mon 06-Jan-14 16:52:45

I've never seen Sherlock, but as my friends have raved about it started to watch. I hated it, and after 10 mins gave up. Very disappointed

Thurlow Mon 06-Jan-14 16:56:50

I liked it. It loved the fact that it was different from the other episodes - it was nice to have something that wasn't just a standard "get case at the beginning, run around a lot, solve case at the end."

I don't feel it's wrong for Sherlock to be becoming more emotional and in touch - he's been learning that from John.

And it was frankly hilarious grin

FuckingWankwings Mon 06-Jan-14 17:01:49

Sadoldbear, this was not a good episode to watch if you haven't seen it before. Lots of history and character development that you need to know about to appreciate it. The first series is great: I'd recommend just starting there and, if you like it, working your way through!

tobiasfunke Mon 06-Jan-14 17:12:08

It was self indulgent wank. I don't care if next week is grittier I probably won't watch it. I thought last week's episode was poor and last night's was truly awful.
They have made Dr Who too complicated for kids and Sherlock too infantile for grownups. So are they aiming both at the 10-16 market then?

wintera Mon 06-Jan-14 17:13:16

Yes I'd agree. We've just recently re watched the very first ep and its a cracker honestly.

Interesting what someone said about it being like Sheldon and Leonard from big bang, last week Mycroft and Sherlock reminded me of Niles and Frasier Crane.

wintera Mon 06-Jan-14 17:15:16

Sorry I was agreeing with the post saying to start from the beginning.

Trills Mon 06-Jan-14 17:18:42

Ah, I miss Frasier!

CheeseStrawWars Mon 06-Jan-14 18:03:52

Can someone explain this to me please?

The young soldier who was seemingly stabbed in the shower was a rehearsal for the death of the old soldier bloke. But didn't Watson save the young soldier's life, as per Sherlock's speech?

That being the case, the rehearsal for murder failed, the victim didn't die. So why repeat the same method and expect a different result, especially when you know the bridegroom is the same doctor?

giraffeseatpineapples Mon 06-Jan-14 18:05:49

actually cheese that is a good point!

Moln Mon 06-Jan-14 18:09:57

The solider was only saved because he was found in time. I think thecrehersal was for sticking the blade in rather than for the killing

Punkatheart Mon 06-Jan-14 18:11:05

I don't he would know that Watson treated him or even saved him. He was not inside the barracks. He would just see that the guard did not reappear.

FuckingWankwings Mon 06-Jan-14 18:11:08

Sherlock didn't solve the attempted murder of the soldier until after the old soldier had also been attacked using the same method. John, as a doctor, was able to see that he was still alive and keep him alive until an ambulance came, but didn't know how the injury had been done either.

I'd guess the would-be murderer took the fact that the first victim survived to be bad luck, and also that he wasn't too bothered about the first victim dying –it was the old soldier he wanted. The method was sound; he just had to take a punt on no one working out how he was going to kill his victims, and no one did until very late on.

squoosh Mon 06-Jan-14 19:29:26

I can overlook a lot but how the hell did people not notice they were being stabbed! You would feel it no matter how teeny the blade was.

giraffeseatpineapples Mon 06-Jan-14 19:38:04

Yes but you think the fact that watson and sherlock were on the scene of the first crime would have put him off trying the same plan at the wedding where they were both going to be present.

EverybodysStressyEyed Mon 06-Jan-14 19:44:49

Agree it was too long and slow. I just came away thinking the writers think they are a lot cleverer than they are. I felt that way with the first series first two episodes and am disappointed they have fallen back into it!

Apparently they like to encourage family and friends into roles/back stage etc. that's why freemans wife and bc's parents got roles. In any other industry people would be up in arms but in luvvie Dom it's fine.

squoosh Mon 06-Jan-14 19:48:42

The nepotism really pisses me off Everybody, especially as it's a publicly funded TV show.

RustyBear Mon 06-Jan-14 19:51:39

The Empress Elisabeth of Austria was assassinated in 1898 by a man who stabbed her with a very long thin needle file. She walked 100 yards along a quay and onto a boat before collapsing - she wore very tight corsets, which presumably had a similar effect to the soldiers' tight belts.

teejwood Mon 06-Jan-14 19:51:58

I too found it odd that they didn't really feel they were being stabbed, squoosh. When they did the close up of the stabbings it was obvious both victims felt something but are the belts so tight they really would not feel that it was a small thin blade? Is it possible it just felt like a piece of tight fabric tweaking a strand body hair?

However - why did the killer go on to use the strategy again? Well, it's more than possible that either a) Sherlock's involvement in the case was not publicised until he mentioned it at the wedding as it was not solved (so no chance for glory) or b) it was publicised but people knew that Sherlock had not been able to solve it - so the killer could take a chance on using the same strategy as the how and whom had not been discovered.

Also, his position as the photographer - the person no-one really sees - gives him the opportunity to operate unseen even if they were on the lookout for a potential killer. It's a trope used a lot in Agatha Christie, Sherlock Holmes and many other crime stories - the killer hidden in plain sight. In fact, it even reflects the fact John did not see Sherlock in ep 1 when he was masquerading as a waiter. All quite neat, really - these echoes between different situations - which is why Mrs Hudson's speech on not really knowing her husband I think foreshadows revelations to come about Mary.

teejwood Mon 06-Jan-14 19:53:31

Rusty! Thank you for answering my question and what a fab fact to know grin

squoosh Mon 06-Jan-14 19:56:34

Thanks Rusty, that's interesting!

EverybodysStressyEyed Mon 06-Jan-14 19:57:05

I'm sure the may fly thought he was very clever but if he was so hellbent on revenge why would he risk squandering his one chance.

Totally agree squoosh - the article I read was all very 'isn't that sweet'. Can't imagine they'd be saying that if it was a bank!

janesnowdon1 Mon 06-Jan-14 20:02:33

What about the Waters(?) family at the start - the robbers who couldn't be convicted. I thought the story was going to be about them. Then it was dropped - will it be revived next week? or did I watch a different programme.

Agree it was too long and very slap, bang, wallop like Dr Who

RustyBear Mon 06-Jan-14 20:13:15

I found out about it in a detective novel, teej! Perhaps I'd better not say which one, in case people haven't read it. Not an Agatha Christie, though I there is an Agatha Christie one where.......

<<POSSIBLE SPOILER EVEN THOUGH I DON'T MENTION WHICH STORY IT'S IN>>


















the murderer held a 'dress rehearsal' and went on to commit the 'real' murder when Poirot didn't suspect anything the first time.







<<END OF SPOILER>>

grin

Trills Mon 06-Jan-14 20:13:59

If I were a killer and I knew a murder method that Sherlock had failed to solve, I'd choose that over a method that he may or may not be able to solve.

RustyBear Mon 06-Jan-14 20:38:49
OodlesofOods Mon 06-Jan-14 20:41:23

They were on red bubble on 2nd Jan. ordered one for dh.

RustyBear Mon 06-Jan-14 20:58:34

Ooh, the Redbubble ones are much nicer! I love Redbubble, it's where my 'timey-wimey' iPhone case came from.

TooMuchJD Mon 06-Jan-14 21:13:33

Loved it, appeals to my sense of humour & I'm happy for it to stretch reality just a little in the name of entertainment grin

giraffeseatpineapples Mon 06-Jan-14 21:43:57

Trills I would agree if the method had actually been successful first time. Also why was the murderer drawing attention to himself by stalking the first guardsman and taking loads of photographs when his occupation is a photographer!

I quite liked parts of the episode but it was very slow getting started and unfortunately it was the first time dp had decided to watch so he got bored and fell asleep before things really got going. It was one for fans of the show really, which is a bit of a luxury when it goes on for an hour and a half there are only 3 episodes.

teejwood Mon 06-Jan-14 21:55:01

Exactly, Trills!

DP also reliably informed me that it's a well known method of murder among D&D-ers...

Love the iphone case, Rusty. Have to say, I really enjoyed DT saying "I don't know where he got that from" during TDOTD grin

teejwood Mon 06-Jan-14 21:59:11

Giraffes - the first time it was only unsuccessful because people (Holmes & Watson) were looking for the Guardsman and got to him on time.

Arguably, if you do the same thing to a recluse who is likely to go to their room and not want/expect to be disturbed (this is someone less sociable than Holmes, after all) then the likelihood of the murder actually working is surely much higher? So it does still make perfect sense. No-one is going to be looking for a potential murderer, with that MO, at the wedding and no-one is going to care much when the taciturn grumpy Major takes off to his bedroom and closes the door. Plenty of time for him to bleed to death before anyone comes knocking...

BaconAndAvocado Mon 06-Jan-14 22:06:11

Sorry to butt in but there was talk up thread of Mary being a wrong 'un......surely not?! (DH predicted this so I do hope it's not true grin )

giraffeseatpineapples Mon 06-Jan-14 22:32:10

D&D ers? what are they teejwood? If it is a well known method then sherlock should have thought if it sooner grin That is very true though about the soldier friend going to his room by himself because he is a recluse, making success more likely.

Sorry, just though of another potential flaw, if the murderer was seeking vengance for his dead soldier brother, why would he kill another innocent man to practice on?

BitOfFunWithSanta Mon 06-Jan-14 22:38:48

Mary is NOT a wrong 'un. This is like the Saul Dilemma on the Homeland threads grin.

I liked it, although I accept it was a bit self-indulgent. Good fun once it got going though.

I tell you what was bugging me though: where have I seen the actress who played the rather saucy-looking maid before?

teejwood Mon 06-Jan-14 22:45:34

Would the young Holmes brothers have indulged in Dungeons and Dragons or other role playing games (at least I think that is what DP meant!)? It may have involved interacting with other people so perhaps not? Although given SH's encyclopaedic knowledge of - stuff - then you're right it should have occurred to him before the wedding reception.

Where was he, anyway, when he was creeping around the barracks? Feel that might be something that crops up again in ep 3.

In terms of murdering another soldier - are we expected to assume that the murderer sees a single soldier as collateral damage, worth it for the greater "good" of seeking revenge on behalf of the many?

What is clear is that he needed a victim in that dress to understand how long his method may take to work and how successful it could be...

wintera Mon 06-Jan-14 22:46:32

That's the lady I was talking about up thread. She's been in loads but used to be much bigger. She's lost loads of weight. She was in titty bang bang, psychoville, also in one of the doctor who Christmas specials. She also used to have long dark hair too. She looked so different though it was hard to place her.

teejwood Mon 06-Jan-14 22:55:08

Ah the Homeland threads suspect Saul? Must check it out, I've thought that for a while...

Mary may not be the big bad (assuming that's Troels LM) but I do think she is part of it - either willingly or no...

teejwood Mon 06-Jan-14 22:56:31

And Debbie Chazen- yes looks so different now. She was Annie in The Smoking Room, too.

RustyBear Mon 06-Jan-14 22:58:07

Oh yes! Foon van Hoff! Really didn't recognise her!

wintera Mon 06-Jan-14 23:01:53

Maybe Mary is related to the big bad? That's why the telegram mentioned her family? Maybe he's her brother or something? Not saying she's a baddie though, but I think something has gone on in her past.

teejwood Mon 06-Jan-14 23:11:54

Mrs Hudson's line about not knowing her husband - foreshadowing, I tells ya!

Nerfmother Mon 06-Jan-14 23:14:58

Wintera - yes and they have a showdown and Watson has to choose who to save? And then she says something like I'll always take care of you (reminding us of sherlocks crap wedding speech) and takes the bullet?
grin

teejwood Mon 06-Jan-14 23:29:39

Oh. It just occurred to me. Could we be looking at The Bloody Guardsman all wrong? Could the Guardsman himself have been involved in the plot in order to help prove it would work on Watson's ex-CO? Perhaps he or one of his superiors (the man who found him in the shower) was in on the plot to get revenge on the ex-Co on behalf of all those young recruits who died? So it was not luck that Holmes and Watson were there to save him - it was in fact planned that way??

LittleBearPad Mon 06-Jan-14 23:37:42

Really looking forward to next weeks episode. Liked last nights a lot

YY teejwood, why if you are devastated about the death of your brother -an innocent young soldier -and his young inexperienced comrades after they were apparently negligently led into danger by a senior officer who was the only survivor, why oh why would you have no qualms about offing another young innocent soldier just like your dead bro and his comrades as practice?

Makes no psychological sense whatsoever.

OodlesofOods Tue 07-Jan-14 07:19:51

rusty most of dh Xmas presents came from red bubble this year blush

Allthingsprettyreturns Tue 07-Jan-14 07:22:54

Wintera I noticed that too about the titty titty bamg bang lady.

I do think that Mary is playing Sherlock in the fact that all the clues regarding her pregnancy were deliberatly made in Sherlocks presence and were very.obvipus rather than subtle

FuckingWankwings Tue 07-Jan-14 10:43:46

giraffes, the murderer wouldn't necessarily have known what happened to the first victim as his 'death' and Watson saving his life all took place within the barracks; he wasn't there.

Loads of people take photos of the poor guardsmen all the time –they showed this in the episode. It's not really drawing attention to himself at all; it's more like hiding in plain sight.

Re: killing an innocent man, I think he was so unbalanced by his grief and desire for revenge that he didn't see the guardsman as a person but just as someone wearing the right clothes for him to practise his technique on. Again, the episode sort of pointed this up by showing the tourists posing for photos with him but not interacting with him in any way. In a less murderous way, they were just as oblivious to him as a human being and were only concerned with what they wanted out of him (in their cases, not revenge but some cool holiday photos).

EverybodysStressyEyed Tue 07-Jan-14 10:49:05

I don't see why he needed to take photos of him in all those situations (I can understand wanting to document the uniform). It seemed more a way of showing that the guy had lots of cameras and knew how to use them and signposted the photographer

A bit like the very first episode - the taxi shots were so unnecessary that it basically told you who the murderer was from the beginning. I assumed it was going to be a Colombo style show!

FuckingWankwings Tue 07-Jan-14 10:56:02

Stressy, maybe he was working out the best location to do it – where the guardsman and the 'murderer' himself would be best concealed.

The taking lots of photos thing can be explained by the fact that any members of the public standing round a guardsman almost by definition have a camera; you'd look more conspicuous and attract more suspicion if you hung around one and weren't taking photos.

BloominNora Tue 07-Jan-14 11:10:39

I loved it.

I do want to know what Mary is lying about though - I spotted the LIAR word straight away when watching the first episode and rewound it to check. It would be very unlike Sherlock not to pick up on it. I wonder if he has been quietly investigating having learned lessons from doing everything so publicly with Moriarty.

I am surprised at the people saying his self-awareness is not right. He is supposed to be ridiculously clever, is able to read people and deduce things. It does not surprise me that he is aware of how people see him.

As a sociopath, he may not be able to understand why people see him that way, or even care, let alone want to change but he would be more than capable of knowing that they do see him that way and would accept it unless he received information to the contrary. He lacks empathy, awareness!

recall Tue 07-Jan-14 11:49:14

I don't like Mary, I find her intrusive, slipped into the relationship too easily. She's bugging me sad No chemistry between her and John.

FuckingWankwings Tue 07-Jan-14 11:58:28

Nora, I can't decide whether I think Mary is a liar about something Very Significant and Plot-Changing, or just about liking John's moustache grin

Re Sherlock's self-awareness, I agree. He has also had two years away to reflect on his life, plus he made references in the best man speech to how John helps and saves him, meaning, I think, that John is helping him to gradually become more 'human'. And John says at one point 'Remember we talked about the showing-off thing?', indicating that they do talk about Sherlock's behaviour; presumably this also contributes to Sherlock's growing awareness.

I think it's believable and interesting character development, although I do kind of miss the ultra-otherworldly, abstracted Sherlock of the first series. Benedict nailed that perfectly.

recall, the way that Mary is so smoothly integrated makes me suspect that she's been planted; to do that you'd need to be expert at inveigling yourself into other people's trust and affections.

ElephantsAndMiasmas Tue 07-Jan-14 11:59:25

I really like Mary and love the fact that she's not "come between" Sherlock and Watson, but strengthened them in a way. Sadly TV being what it is I don't think they'll let such a strong and funny female character go on long, let alone a healthy relationship dynamic. A real pity as I think Sherlock going back to being a sole agent on the surface while popping round to John and Mary's to "consult" or drag them out at a moment's notice would be great.

What actually happened to Mary's family? My guesses: a) she is responsible for their deaths in some way, possibly when a child (Christie loves the violent child = violent adult theme) b) she is related to this Magnusson person and has tried to start a new life away from him c) it was clever but I've forgotten it, something to do with power over her that would make her agree to harm Sherlock.

What do you think?

recall Tue 07-Jan-14 12:04:34

was Mary in a Malteser advert with her sister ?

VivaLeBeaver Tue 07-Jan-14 12:13:42

I bet Mary gets killed off in the very near future.

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell Tue 07-Jan-14 12:14:59

As a proper Sherlockian can I make the following point?

Watson had no children.
He was also a widower, Mary died.

If they are sticking to the basic facts of the books then Watson is childless, so make of that what you will....

Pissed me off a bit about Mrs Hudson tbh. She was a widow too, no double murderer as a husband, but I guess they have to add some drama. They would possibly only have included that if it was leading to something; why else give an erroneous detail about Mrs Hudson?

Sherlock Holmes was quite self aware in the book. Watson once listed his shortcomings. Hence he never attended social occasions and was very much a solitary figure. Having said that, he did show that he cared for Watson when Watson was almost shot in The Empty House.

One of the murder victims in the Sign of Four was killed in a room which was locked on the inside and no other apparent way in.

It was not a skewer that was used in the books but a harpoon, in Black Peter.

Another intriguing fact: In the Adventure of the Eligible Bachelor the bride goes missing during the Reception. It transpires that her first husband, whom she thought dead, had turned up at the wedding and she left to abscond with him.

She signalled to him by dropping her bouquet next to him - did anyone see who Mary threw her bouquet to? Sherlock wasn't it?

They may not be using that story, but didn't Holmes leave during the reception?

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell Tue 07-Jan-14 12:15:44

Sorry, Noble Bachelor, Eligible Bachelor is what they changed it to for the Jeremy Brett series.

Now THERE was a good Holmes!

FuckingWankwings Tue 07-Jan-14 12:23:50

Mrs Hudson's criminal husband was introduced in the first series – Sherlock says she owes him because he made sure her husband got executed for his crime.

So they had a pre-existing detail, which might account for why he was brought up again in this episode. The original detail might have been put in just for the joke of Sherlock being able to say that he ensured her husband's execution and to explain why they could afford such a centrally located flat. Or it might be part of a whole planned storyline that Mrs Hudson's 'you never really know people' comments are foreshadowing...

claraschu Tue 07-Jan-14 12:26:32

Mary was an orphan in The Sign of the Four, so I don't think this is necessarily sinister in the TV show.

Holmes shows his greatest emotion for Watson in The Three Garridebs, when Watson is shot. Holmes' eyes are dimmed and his lips shake and he tells the criminal that if he had killed Watson, he would not have left the room alive.

The "best and wisest man I have ever known" is how Watson refers to Holmes when he thinks Holmes is dead at the end of the Final Problem. I think it is a nice touch for Sherlock to use those words, but he would never have repeated them. Once was enough.

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell Tue 07-Jan-14 12:26:42

Ah sorry, there was no bouquet that I can see, just double checked but if it is the plot of the Noble Bachelor then there will be a signal in there to someone and it is telling that he leaves at the Reception, just as the bride does in the book. Hmmmm

claraschu Tue 07-Jan-14 12:27:55

Sherlock throws a flower to the bridesmaid. Don't think it is significant.

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell Tue 07-Jan-14 12:28:45

The Three Garridebs of course it was!

How curious that ITV are currently showing re-runs of Brett and that was one of them yesterday.

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell Tue 07-Jan-14 12:33:02

Claraschu, if they are doing an interpretation of the Noble Bachelor it might be, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

My guess is that Mary dies - there is no child born. Whether they make her sinister or not, well that's up to them.

Mary Morstan was not quite an orphan, well not to her knowledge anyway, her father had gone missing. Sholto was her benefactor - he was responsible for the death of her father. So if she is made sinister, that will be the connection.

wintera Tue 07-Jan-14 12:33:53

Glad someone else remembered Mrs Hudson's husband being mentioned in the very first ep. Watson assumes that Sherlock proved his innocence and that's why Mrs Hudson is grateful but he actually proved his guilt and he was executed. Loved how Sherlock called her Hudders when they were drunk!

checkmates Tue 07-Jan-14 12:38:02

I watched it. Some good camera tricks and bril diologue. But do some people find it too clever by half?.

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell Tue 07-Jan-14 12:45:19

Love the fact that Holmes can never get Lestrade's first name right. Only a Sherlockian would know from the books that although he was Inspector G Lestrade, no-one knew what the G stood for, hence why he is called something different everytime Sherlock addresses him.

givemushypeasachance Tue 07-Jan-14 12:46:33

I loved Mycroft being "the voice of reason" in Sherlock's mind palace - having no doubt taught his brother about deduction when they were growing up (being older & as he likes to emphasise, wiser!). Though in this case he could only get so far intellectually and turned to John, his heart and man of action to actually try to save the life that was still hanging in the balance.

They've made quite a bit more of the Mycroft & Sherlock relationship this series - very glad his brother was vindicated as having been 'in on it' with the fall all along, and that they brought down Moriarty together. Even if the watching his little brother being tortured and not rushing to stop it was a little strange - later games of Operation & Deductions make it clear they're on pretty good terms still though. And Sherlock practically begging him to come to 'the evening do' (persumably to help fight best man's speech nerves!).

I'm intrigued by the "Redbeard" reference between them - Mark Gatiss has tweeted it again, stirring further speculation. Just a moment of childhood nostalgia for when Sherlock wanted to be a pirate? Or something more sinister? The trailer for next week shows Magnussen clearly has something on Mycroft; 'go against him and you'll be going against me'. Master blackmailers having dirt on the British Government can't end well...

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell Tue 07-Jan-14 12:52:15

Can't think offhand of anything in the books?

Oh but.............................

In the beginning, the bank robbery? Well the best case of bank robbery was in the Adventure of the Red-Headed League where the robbers dug a tunnel from a rented property under the street and into the bank vaults. That tactic was also used in the real Baker Street Robbery. It's all I can think of and would link the beginning of that programme together with the Red Beard reference.

claraschu can you think of anything? I gather you're a Sherlockian too? smile

AndiMac Tue 07-Jan-14 14:13:58

Marylou2 I agree, Elementary is better. If, for no other reason than it's an actual TV series, not 3 episodes every 18 months or so. The characters have far more time to develop.

That's not to say it didn't like this last episode of Sherlock; the whole stag night bit was hilarious. And the last 15 minutes were ok too. But huge plot holes (just one in my list: the major lives in the middle of nowhere, all these women work for him, but they go on dates with the "ghost" in the middle of London), the lack of continuation between the episodes and the knowledge that the next/last episode is likely to be another cliff hanger to leave us gasping until 2015 puts me off it.

Give me Jonny Lee Miller and Lucy Liu any day.

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell Tue 07-Jan-14 14:15:11

<splutters>

Elementary? With Joan Watson?

<goes off muttering>

Thurlow Tue 07-Jan-14 14:22:08

I don't think Elementary is better - personally I think Sherlock is incredible TV, from the acting to the direction to the visuals - but it is actually very good. It's utterly different, which helps. I expected to hate it and hate Joan Watson but again, like Sherlock, they've managed to come up with a completely believable relationship betwen the two and even though Joan being female adds a new dimension, there is absolutely no chemistry between them, which is very refreshing. And I like JLM's take on a more human Holmes. Plus he's spectacularly hot and takes his top off a lot

AndiMac Tue 07-Jan-14 14:24:26

Thurlow, that does not hurt my appreciation of the show either. wink

If Sherlock was on more regularly or had more episodes, I think I would prefer it, but as it stands...

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell Tue 07-Jan-14 14:31:32

I like Sherlock because it entertains me and it also fulfils my inner nerd when it comes to Holmes. I like getting all the subtle references and nods to other stories in the Canon and to Doyle himself. You can definitely tell they are genuine fans.

I think the US version just ripped off the British version. I know nothing about the writers, I can't see any episodes (don't have cable TV) but I think I would probably hate them unless they are written by Sherlockians. That's how Sherlock is so clever, it appeals to die-hard fans of the books as well as everyone else. Does Elementary do that?

Clawdy Tue 07-Jan-14 14:35:54

In the original books,doesn't Mary die in childbirth? sad

squoosh Tue 07-Jan-14 14:38:48

I thought galloping consumption got her but I may be wrong.

phantomnamechanger Tue 07-Jan-14 14:42:04

interesting theories/predictions on this thread, marking my place.....

Re the women all working for the major - does Sherlock actually ask them who their employer is, in the courtroom scene, or does he just say it to himself?

Because, if he did ask them directly, why was that not the question that made them log off?

The question that made them log off was "do you have a secret?" and they all said "No!" and went away.

So, if the common thread was that they had all worked for the major, when Sherlock asked "Who's your employer?" why didn't they all disappear then.

Also, if your big secret was that you had previously worked for someone for whom you had signed a confidentiality agreement, would you get all nervous when asked "do you have a secret"? I don't think I would.

I do love Sherlock though and really enjoyed the ep.

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell Tue 07-Jan-14 14:46:36

It isn't said how she died.

I think I've got it:

In the original Sign of Four, Mary Morstan's father was murdered by Cpt Moran. In the series, she is an orphan. What better way to get closer to Cpt Moran than through his old friend, Watson?
As Holmes said, who would go to great lengths to attend a wedding? Well nearly everyone right? So that would be her chance to meet him face to face.
She married Watson to get to Moran.

Just a theory mind - but I also think they might add in elements of the Noble Bachelor in that the bride may well go missing during the reception.

She has to die - there is no baby.

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell Tue 07-Jan-14 14:55:24

They all had a secret remember? They didn't say what their secret was?

Could Mary also have a secret and this is what he is alluding to?

Moran was responsible for the deaths of many men, it's not too much of a stretch to assume that he was responsible for her father's death, as in the original story.

She knows it.

I'm looking forward to the next one now!

Thurlow Tue 07-Jan-14 15:02:23

Elementary has some nods to cannon, but it is a standalone show. You can almost forget that it is Sherlock Holmes. It's just a police procedural about a hot insanely clever and socially incompetent bloke and his trainee detective. They could have been called any names and it would have worked just as well. Though there are similarities, namely with Watson bringing Holmes out of his shell. The drug use is played up much more, which to me actually works and gives JLM's Sherlock a completely different spin. So BC's Sherlock is so clever he has basically shut himself off from the world; JLM's Sherlock is so clever he went off the rails. Two actually very different characters.

Sherlock still wins, but Elementary is worth a go as a weekly show.

(*AndiMac*, do you remember the episode which opened with Sherlock handcuffed topless to a chair with strippers? <overheats> If Moffatt & co are going to steal one storyline, I think it should be that one...)

Re the women's secret, I thought the secret they were referring to was working for a man who probably had lots of confidentiality agreements etc because he was at risk?

claraschu Tue 07-Jan-14 15:02:53

I immediately thought of the Red Headed League (red beard reference + bank robbers with gold ingots). Sorry I don't have any other ideas-

ElephantsAndMiasmas Tue 07-Jan-14 15:06:38

But it was said that the people who died were all raw recruits wasn't it? Given that he would have to be a similar age or older than the Captain, that's not very likely is it? Also wouldn't that be, well, a bit boring?

VikingLady Tue 07-Jan-14 15:08:52

I can't imagine the writers doing the loss of the baby, so either Mary is faking symptoms for some reason and is prob a baddie, or she dies. Either way Watson would move back into Baker St as happens in the books.

And going back to Sherlock's self awareness - many, many people will have told him what they think of him! Plus he sounds like he's been diagnosed, so he would probably have read up on his Dx too.

claraschu Tue 07-Jan-14 15:39:56

Mary's father was not murdered. He died of a heart attack while arguing with Sholto (who then concealed his death, a neat kind of half-guilt, such as we have on the TV series, I think).

Moran had nothing to do with it; he killed Adair and attempted to kill Holmes on several occasions.

claraschu Tue 07-Jan-14 15:43:25

I don't think there is a reference to how Mary died. There are later references to a Mrs. Watson, but I think Conan Doyle might have just forgotten that he had already killed her off.

wintera Tue 07-Jan-14 16:10:27

I would recommend seeking out the Sherlock panel from last year's Comic con to you all. It's with Mark Gatiss, Steven Moffet and Sue Verity. I can't link at the mo but its definitely on YouTube as I watched it a couple of weeks ago.

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell Tue 07-Jan-14 16:21:22

claraschu I am working from memory here so forgive me some of the details smile

He was responsible I think, in a way, for the death of her father hence his son was it? As her benefactor? There was another son who didn't want her to have any of the money, again if memory serves me correct.

They were sending her jewels every month or so (year?) because their father asked them to do so as he was racked with guilt about her father's death.

I am getting Moran and Sholto mixed up - this is Cpt Sholto NOT Moran as I said earlier. I agree, Moran doesn't feature anymore.

In the Empty House Watson made reference to the fact that Holmes knew of his recent bereavement, so it is clear that Mrs Watson was out of the picture, although Doyle forgets this as later on in the stories, there is another Mrs Watson.

He also got Mrs Hudson's name wrong at one point as well as John/James Watson (nice touch in first episode). You can tell his heart wasn't really in it towards the end, he was more focused on otherwordly things, unfortunately.

happygirl87 Tue 07-Jan-14 16:25:12

Surely Mary doesn't have to be faking symptoms- he said he tastes have changed as she didnt like the wine, her appetite is bigger, and she threw up.....maybe she picked the wine while stressed so didnt pay attention properly, threw up from nerves, and after the ceremony was more relaxed and got hungry? Maybe she's not a wrong'un, or pregnant?!

Upthread someone said she didnt do the one thing all mums do when they think they're PG....what did you mean? POAS? Tell her DP?!

Re: the womens' secrets... I think they had all signed a strict confidentiality agreement, as said above, but on their wonderful romantic dates with the good listener, blabbed about working for the recluse. As Mayfly man wanted, obviously, in his bid to find out a possible location for him. I guess he drew it out of them subtly. So then they must have felt bad for having blabbed and it would have been fresh in their minds. So when someone asked if they had a secret, they 'ran away'. Whether the secret, to their minds, was who they had worked for, or the fact that they had told, is irrelevant.

Also, until reading this thread, I thought Mary was on the level - but it's just occured to me, she sent the two of them out on a case, didn't she? Told John to do a bit of male bonding, and he and Sherlock went out. Leaving her alone in Baker Street. I wonder what she might have got up to, there?

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell Tue 07-Jan-14 16:35:00

happy I think she meant that she didn't put her hand on her stomach - not that we could see anyway.

You have a point though, she did make the point about the wine to Holmes and he must have been around when she was sick, so was she doing that for his benefit? Possibly.

I don't know if she'll be portrayed as bad or not but I do think that she knew Cpt Sholto, that he had something to do with the death of her father and that she is possibly in for a sticky end.

RedBeard - again the connection with the bank robbers at the beginning makes me think of the Red Headed League. Perhaps it's a Red Herring?

OrangePixie Tue 07-Jan-14 16:38:47

andimac it's never actually said the dates took place in London - Sherlock was talking to them online so they could be anywhere.

Not criticising you, just trying to help eliminate the little annoyances, I'm the same!

EverybodysStressyEyed Tue 07-Jan-14 16:41:27

Maybe she is sick and not pregnant

Can't say I would take his word for it - I would definitely poas before getting excited!

Thurlow Tue 07-Jan-14 16:42:33

I think it's more likely Mary will die next episode, based on Moffatt and that saying it will be a very dark episode, but I wouldn't be surprised if she ended up somehow being party of the blackmailer's scheme.

AndiMac Tue 07-Jan-14 16:44:20

OrangePixie, true, they don't say, but when they are talking about the dates and Sherlock is looking at the I Dated a Ghost website, all the pinpoints are Central London on the map. Again, not conclusive, but pretty much what is indicated. But thanks for the help, I love to get my plot holes properly filled!
(That sounds much filthier than I meant it blush )

OrangePixie Tue 07-Jan-14 16:47:17

Ah yes, you're right, they did. Goddam it.

<scribbles on list>

Psammead that's a good point. But how the hell did he get all 5 to blab on the date, I wonder?

wheneverIhear Tue 07-Jan-14 16:57:18

The first time we meet Mary she returns to the table in the restaurant and says to Watson 'sorry that took so long.' Well, why did it take so long?
Was she sending signals from a secret transmitter to spies who want to take over the world?

ElephantsAndMiasmas Tue 07-Jan-14 17:04:19

I don't think any of the women actually blabbed to be honest. I think Mayfly knew they were the soldier's staff (how he found out, lord knows - maybe he knows the address but he is under tight security when at home so needs him to venture out of safety), and just wanted to wait for one of them to mention "how about meeting on saturday, my boss is out of town?" or something, and went from there. If they'd lied about who the boss was they might not have been suspicious.

OnTheBottom - my guess is that there were many more than five. I mean, the targetted employees would have all had to be female, single, within a reasonable age-range, would all have agreed to go on a date, in London, and of those not all would have blabbed, not all would have gone onto the weirdy ghost-dating website...

So those five were probably a very small number of possible targets. Many more would have rejected him, would not have talked, would not have followed the date up, would not have signed up to the site....

So Mayfly man would not have had a 100% success rate. To be honest, I find it a bit of a plot hole. He must have gone on/wanted to go on a hundred dates for the statistics to add up. And the one person who did tell him what he wanted just happened to be the one to approach Sherlock and be on the site. And why would the soldier need that amount of youngish female single staff over the last few years? It doesn't really add up logically. But I don't mind.

Elephants - he also needed him to be in dress uniform, remember? For his stabby thing to work.

ElephantsAndMiasmas Tue 07-Jan-14 17:22:29

Haha - stabby thing. Well quite. I'm not very clever and I was sitting there going "something really thin, like a razor, would have just put paid to that soldier 20 minutes ago".

Also I think it shows that the show is written exclusively by blokes (why IS that, again?) because I guarantee that if I was on a staff like that and I'd been on a weird date like that and another woman had too, we would know about it, have spoken to each other and a whole mob of us would have showed up at Baker St, making it pretty easy for Sherl.

Davros Tue 07-Jan-14 17:23:59

I absolutely loved it. The orangery looked like the one in Holland Park but someone said it was somewhere in Bristol. All orangeries must look the same, ho hum!

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell Tue 07-Jan-14 17:30:43

He would have worn his uniform though wouldn't it? He got it on special commission as he says, for the wedding. That's why the wedding is central to the plot. It lured him out from his reclusive state and also made sure he was wearing his uniform with belt.

Mary is in on this. Mark my words.

Still puzzling over Red Beard.

ElephantsAndMiasmas Tue 07-Jan-14 17:34:18

But - why would Mary BOTHER? It's a lot of faff, working for someone and then MARRYING them, having unprotected sex etc, isn't it?

CarolineKnappShappey Tue 07-Jan-14 18:58:22

Watched it again last night after looking at this thread.

Mary looks very iffy when the telegram from Cam is read out.
And very iffy during the pregnancy thing.

LumpySpacePrincessOhMyGlob Tue 07-Jan-14 19:03:55

She does Caroline, she looks iffy as soon as Sherlock says the message is from CAM.

Curiouser and curiouser.

CarolineKnappShappey Tue 07-Jan-14 19:16:19

Very very iffy...

giraffeseatpineapples Tue 07-Jan-14 19:26:33

I think mary is suss after reading this, and that sherlock suspects and is playing along. A bit too convenient that her side was so 'thin' for the wedding and she that has no family whatsoever.

Also why would she instantly like sherlock given what he had done to john etc. She actively pushed john to forgive sherlock, would you want to be friends with someone who is going to get your boyfriend into dangerous scrapes? The whole bonfire thing was probably designed to push john and sherlock back together so that mary can be around sherlock?

the mayfly taking pictures - one or two just a tourist, but he took so many that the bloody guardsman thought he was a stalker. Maybe this was deliberate on the mayfly's part and the mastermind wanted sherlock and watson at the barracks for some reason?

incognitoforonenight Tue 07-Jan-14 19:29:34

disappointing but BC is hot so will keep watching!

wintera Tue 07-Jan-14 19:32:28

Just because Mary looked iffy when the message from Cam was read out doesn't necessarily mean she's in on anything. Just means she has a past and may know the big baddy. I am really hoping she's not a wrong un cos I like her. She may very possibly die soon though, I agree with that.

giraffeseatpineapples Tue 07-Jan-14 19:33:27

oh and just remembered they wouldnt have even taken on the guardsman case without mary playing her little thumbs up games .... dah dah dah

giraffeseatpineapples Tue 07-Jan-14 19:34:36

Wintera, I would prefer her to be wrong un, will be sad if she is nice and dies in childbirth sad

BettyMacdonald Tue 07-Jan-14 20:10:53

Great thread, thanks to all of you with far better brains than I for all the theories. I was a bit hmm about episode 2, especially as there are only 3 in the series, I felt a bit short changed initially iyswim but now I'm intrigued as to what the final episode will hold......shock

BTW: I would so do Lestrade. Anyone else? BC is a great actor but doesn't do it for me <runs for cover>

wintera Tue 07-Jan-14 20:39:40

He doesn't do it for me either and I've seen him naked as well right in front of me.

I'd rather have Lestrade too. I love what they've done with his character. He's so different from other versions.

DaveBussell Tue 07-Jan-14 20:40:42

Just seen a trailer for next episode on youtube that explains one of the things people have been puzzling about...

Great to see Lars Mikkelsen from The Killing in the cast!

Wevet Tue 07-Jan-14 20:46:44

Definitely Lestrade. I also have a slightly kinky liking for Mycroft (especially in Lycra!). And Moriarty was rather tasty in a demented master-criminal kind of way.

I fear I only find Sherlock attractive when he's wearing his gorgeous coat. As soon as he takes it off, I realise he's a lanky, pallid dweeb with strange hair. With it on, he's kind of godlike.

teejwood Tue 07-Jan-14 20:48:31

dave yy Troels <fans self> I have SOOO been looking forward to his involvement and feel hard done by to date!
Is the trailer BBC or BBC America or what? Is it spoiler-y??

squoosh Tue 07-Jan-14 20:53:39

Lars is mine so back off ladies!

teejwood Tue 07-Jan-14 20:55:19

squoosh did we have this discussion on TK1 thread many moons ago?? Surely there was an agreement to timeshare or something iirc?

DaveBussell Tue 07-Jan-14 20:57:04

Not really spoilery teej, just allows you to work out something about the wedding telegram thing. It's on Youtube if you google Sherlock episode 3 trailer.

Lars is beyond gorgeous (and MINE actually squoosh!!) - just from a few seconds on the trailer he absolutely blazes out of the screen. I think even Cumber might be a bit upstaged!

squoosh Tue 07-Jan-14 21:00:37

Now that does sound familiar teej, I must have lost my copy of the agreement. Okay I'll send him to you washed and almost box fresh the weekend after next.

But all you other harlots, I'm looking at you DaveBussell, better keep their mitts off!

LumpySpacePrincessOhMyGlob Tue 07-Jan-14 21:01:14

Trailer

<bites knuckles>

DaveBussell Tue 07-Jan-14 21:09:13

How dare you call me a harlot! <gets out long thin stabby thing and inserts into Squoosh before running away with Lars>

teejwood Tue 07-Jan-14 21:13:29

OK I could not resist, I followed Lumpy's link. The promise of a little LM action was too much! grin and yet sad
<makes secret plans to intercept LM before he reaches squoosh - mwhah-hah-hah-hah-ha...>

teejwood Tue 07-Jan-14 21:15:39

Dave - squoosh was NOT in her dress uniform or tight corset to cover your crime - consider yourself busted!
<watches as Dave arrested and then intercepts LM>

ExcuseTypos Tue 07-Jan-14 21:20:15

I've seen BC writhing about the stage as Frankenstein's monster.
It was quite an evening grin

craigslittleangel Tue 07-Jan-14 21:21:50

Did we find out where the inertia shots were. Getting married next year and need a venue. Only have about 80 people and that placed looked great.

The episode annoyed me though.

wintera Tue 07-Jan-14 21:22:04

Oh me too! Mine was in the afternoon though!

squoosh Tue 07-Jan-14 21:23:50

The only thing stabbing me will be Lars' perfectly formed Danish penis. He's seen the thread and blanched at your vulgar ways. He's a refined man and says I'm the only one for him.

<adjusts tinfoil hat>

wintera Tue 07-Jan-14 21:34:02

Craig - my cousin lives in Bristol. When the ep was on she put a thing on Facebook saying it was filmed at the Bristol Assembly rooms and also the Orangery in Clifton. Hope that helps you!

wintera Tue 07-Jan-14 21:34:22

Craig - my cousin lives in Bristol. When the ep was on she put a thing on Facebook saying it was filmed at the Bristol Assembly rooms and also the Orangery in Clifton. Hope that helps you!

Davros Tue 07-Jan-14 21:46:50

Or google orangeries. Don't know what arrayiu are in but you may well find one local to you and, as I said up thread, they seem to be similar. My nephew got married in the one in holland park some years ago and it was lovely.

wheneverIhear Tue 07-Jan-14 21:51:43

Sherlock was researching sholto before the wedding - he closed the screen when Watson walked in when he was also looking at the ghost girlfriends on five screens. Why the interest? I think he suspects something - it will reappear next week?

wheneverIhear Tue 07-Jan-14 21:55:36

And Mary knows sholto's room number.

wintera Tue 07-Jan-14 22:12:52

I think he was just googling him cos he was a bit jealous. He said John never mentions him then Mary said oh he does he talks about him non stop to me. Then she said John thinks he is the most unsociable man ever and he was put out as obviously he's the most unsociable man ever. It just piqued his interest I think. Plus it all helped him to solve who was going to be the victim at the wedding.

wheneverIhear Tue 07-Jan-14 22:14:28

SherloCk does also seem strange at the end. Why does he say a second time 'you should have driven faster' to the photographer? There is quite a strong sense that the photographer is right when he says sholto is the real villain (though obv im not saying the photographer is right to go round stabbing people! He's not an unsympathetic character though).

Then, after he's done the pregnancy denouement, sherlock's smile fades as he looks in mary's direction. First time round i thought he was just realising that this really would change things between him and watson. But now thanks to mn! it seems to me on second viewing more that he's wondering about mary....

wheneverIhear Tue 07-Jan-14 22:18:49

Crossed wit you wintera - yes,you're right, that is an alternative explanation, that sherlock is a bit irritated that sholto is such a key figure in watson's life, so wants to know more...

wintera Tue 07-Jan-14 22:30:16

I think mostly the ep was just about the relationships. I think the murder plots weren't actually supposed to be that important, it was what was happening to Sherlock and Watson. Its like when Mrs Hudson was talking about how she never hardly saw her best friend again after her own wedding. She said that her friend had left the wedding early. She says something like ' who leaves a wedding early?' and then at the end we see Sherlock leaving to let everyone else enjoy themselves. Cos everything is going to change. No matter what they say.

DaveBussell Tue 07-Jan-14 22:36:08

Tsk Squoosh, you should know better than to believe anything Troels says!

Trying to decipher the trailer, Mary is conspicuous by her absence I feel certain she's going to be killed off so it's going to be really gut-wrenching sad

teejwood Tue 07-Jan-14 22:41:45

imho - he says "you should have driven faster" because he has some sympathy with the potential murderer - who has proven himself to be quite creative in tracking down his prey (Sherlock would appreciate that) and who is acting out of loss rather than being evil per se. After all, it is ODD for a superior officer to lose ALL his team of fairly new recruits and survive, no? So what really happened there?

I really enjoyed the episode - made me want to spend more time with them all.

BTW, did anyone else think that there was a very definite hint of The Doctor and his sonic screwdriver as Sherlock whipped out his toolkit when clueing for looks?

teejwood Tue 07-Jan-14 22:46:19

Also to clarify - Sherlock is curious and egotistical, yes, but I don't believe he would have been researching Sholto out of jealousy. HOWEVER, he may well have taken an interest because Mary drew attention to Sholto and he has already twigged that there is "something about Mary"...

Davros Tue 07-Jan-14 22:53:36

Is Sherlock going to develop I nto The Doctor and John and Mary Watson will be Amy and Rory? grin

Probably - and Mark Gatiss will write everything...oops, I forgot, he already does wink.

Woollymooly Tue 07-Jan-14 23:13:23

Agree! The previous series were much better! Want a return to form! This one bordered on self-parody and self-adulation.

Lurleene Wed 08-Jan-14 00:01:11

Re all the Lestrade love. I was obsessed with Rupert Graves when I was a school girl in the late 80s. I decorated my lever arch file with carefully cut out photos from magazines, lovingly arranged and overlapped and protected with clear Fablon.

25 years on, and I still would. wink

wheneverIhear Wed 08-Jan-14 06:47:14

Teejwood i think you are onto something - what 'went wrong' in battle?

Wintera first time round i also thought sherlock's leaving early was to echo mrs hudson's 'who leaves a wedding early?', lost his best friend, theme. Now i'm not so sure - the other person who leaves a wedding early is someone who has to go and do some detecting because he has just had a realisation! Yes he left after he realised the bridesmaid had taken up with someone else (comic man), but i think the reason he was looking for her was because maybe that he'd been hoping to speak to her to find out more about - mary!!

Or - we are being cleverly led up the garden path, mary is a warm and lovely person who just happens to have no relations whatever, and knew sholto's room number because she is a good organiser!?

wintera Wed 08-Jan-14 06:55:44

Lurlene - what started your Rupert Graves obsession then? Was it Room with a view?

wintera Wed 08-Jan-14 07:20:31

I genuinely think people are over analysing certain parts of the episode. Mark Gatiss tweeted the other day that the ending was a reference to a Doctor Who ep called Green Death. Its when the Doctor's assistant Jo leaves him to get married thus ending her travels with him. He quietly slips away at the wedding and walks away. MG said it moved him as a child so he wanted to pay homage in this wedding ep as the stories were similar.

HuevosRancheros Wed 08-Jan-14 07:55:03

If Mary is a wrong'un, wouldn't she not have told them Sholto's room number?
After all, rushing there saved him.....or did she think Sherlock would fail again, and she could witness Sholto's death?

ElephantsAndMiasmas Wed 08-Jan-14 08:04:16

There was a story - but I can't remember whether it was a Holmes story or someone else, Father Brown maybe - where there was a big military defeat which a commanding officer had engineered in order to cover up a murder. Hiding one corpse in a pile of corpses being the general idea. Just came to mind, can anyone remember what it's called?

ElephantsAndMiasmas Wed 08-Jan-14 08:05:12

What did the trailer clear up? I've watched it I just didn't find it very illuminating <thick>

wintera Wed 08-Jan-14 08:15:12

I think the big bad Cam, will be maybe an ex, a brother or a relative of Mary's but I think she won't be a wrong un. She'll most probably be frightened of him or trying to steer clear of him. Something like that.

Trills Wed 08-Jan-14 08:18:52

Lestrade is a silver fox, no doubt about it.

FuckingWankwings Wed 08-Jan-14 09:24:15

'Maybe this was deliberate on the mayfly's part and the mastermind wanted sherlock and watson at the barracks for some reason?'

'they wouldnt have even taken on the guardsman case without mary playing her little thumbs up games'

Good points, giraffes!

And the more I read/think, the more I think the pregnancy 'revelation' and Mary's reaction to it were very suss indeed.

On a completely different note, I've left loads of weddings early and I'm neither a murderer nor a busy consulting detective. I must just be just ultra-antisocial grin

givemushypeasachance Wed 08-Jan-14 09:28:01

There's a spoilery article in a TV magazine now floating around on the net - don't click if you don't want advance knowledge of what's apparently going to be happening in the early stages of the episode. Link to san here.

givemushypeasachance Wed 08-Jan-14 09:28:28

* or link to scan even!

mumtosome61 Wed 08-Jan-14 09:29:30

I have to admit I wasn't paying great attention at the time, but if Mary (and John) were expecting a guest who may not arrive and had arranged a room (this is what I'm tenuous about) then there is every reason why Mary would know what number he was in. Also, Mary was sitting by John when Sherlock told John that Sholto was the intended victim, so she could have found out quick enough.

Sherlock looked far more childlike in that episode. I'm guessing part of it is make up, but Benedict really does a very good job with his eyes at portraying different "maturities" - I noticed this very clearly in Hounds of Baskerville.

teejwood Wed 08-Jan-14 09:44:17

Elephants - are you thinking about the Father Brown story Sign of the Broken Sword?

Huevos - if Mary is a bad'un who has gone deep undercover to help the big bad then not getting Sholto's room number would have blown her cover and it really would not have been worth it as Sholto's murder is not her primary objective and may not even be related to the big bad at all.

That said, while Moffiss/Gattat are taking some liberties with the stories I don't think they would contradict them sufficiently to make Mary an out and out baddie. More likely scenario is that if she is involved then it's in a coerced way.

AndiMac Wed 08-Jan-14 09:45:01

I watched part of the very first episode of Sherlock on the Alibi channel last night, A Study in Pink. Soooo much better than the current series. Proper suspense, even with me knowing the ending!

encyclogirl Wed 08-Jan-14 09:46:03

At the start of the ep Mrs Hudson was talking about her best friend who cried all through her wedding and then left early "Who leaves a wedding early?" I think Sherlock leaving early was a reference to that.

I also think CAM is an ex of Mary's and she's frightened of him. I can't see her being a baddie.

I'd be surprised if they kill a pregnant woman off.

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell Wed 08-Jan-14 10:08:36

IF they are taking anything from the Noble Bachelor - the story goes that it's on her wedding day that her husband, whom she previously thought dead, turns up at the wedding and so she goes missing during the Reception.

It would be too delicious a storyline for Gatiss to miss. It's the only story in the Canon which features a wedding. Someone from the past haunting the bride......

Oh and you know when Watson was kidnapped and put in the bonfire? They never got to the bottom of that did they? But that was the point which drew Watson and Sherlock back together. Mary was really gunning for Watson to meet Sherlock again but he refused, then he was kidnapped and Sherlock saved him. What was the motive?

Who did Mary go running to when Watson went missing? How did she know the text was a code?

Sorry to say that I think they do make Mary a bit of a bad 'un, after all they've taken liberty with other characters and Mary was hardly a major player in the books.

HuevosRancheros Wed 08-Jan-14 10:17:16

Having not read the books, and by no means being a Sherlockian, just picking up on what you all say.... could the mention of 'Cam' in the telegrams be the equivalent of "thought-to-be-dead husband turns up at wedding"?

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell Wed 08-Jan-14 10:31:10

Well Huevos that would be a big secret wouldn't it? That she had been married before?

All speculation but there is no doubt that Mary has a secret and somehow, at that wedding I think it came to haunt her. I also think that Watson was put in that bonfire for a reason and that hasn't come to light yet.

'Tis intriguing, which is how it should be.

LumpySpacePrincessOhMyGlob Wed 08-Jan-14 10:42:58

Maybe she has a child with the big evil guy, and he is using this to control her. Or is that a bit too kill bill? grin

FuckingWankwings Wed 08-Jan-14 10:43:20

Cliff, yes, that is intriguing about John in the bonfire. I was a bit cross with them because I thought they'd contrived it just to be able to stage an 'exciting' motorbike chase (although it wasn't very exciting at all!), but maybe it actually felt slightly inconsequential because there is more to it, that will be revealed...

ElephantsAndMiasmas Wed 08-Jan-14 11:02:19

"I also think that Watson was put in that bonfire for a reason and that hasn't come to light yet." <snort>

Anyway, what are our loose ends?

- who put john in the bonfire?
- who/what is redbeard?
- who is Cam?
- what happened to Mary's family?

Anything else?

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell Wed 08-Jan-14 11:21:48

I wondered who would pick up on that elephants grin

HuevosRancheros Wed 08-Jan-14 11:29:22

Cam surely is Charles Arthur (?) Magnussen?
= baddie! grin

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell Wed 08-Jan-14 11:38:07

MILVERTON

Charles Augustus Milverton - the Master Blackmailer. Huevos you sure you haven't read the Canon? You are a GENIUS!

HuevosRancheros Wed 08-Jan-14 11:56:43

He's Magnussen in this, the beardy Danish guy you all seem to be lusting over grin
See the trailer smile

HuevosRancheros Wed 08-Jan-14 11:59:31

Anyway, Cam's telegram seemed significant to Mary, it was "shame you have no family at the wedding" or something, wasn't it?
Bit odd, for a wedding message, hardly necessary, or keeping up the cheery tone.
And she looked upset iirc.

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell Wed 08-Jan-14 12:14:12

Well that's it then, they are going for the Master Blackmailer.

Whopper.

HuevosRancheros Wed 08-Jan-14 12:18:29

But in the trailer, CAM and Mycroft seem very very close....

ElephantsAndMiasmas Wed 08-Jan-14 12:28:25

Well in that case I'm definitely plumping for she did her family in as a child. She's got a new identity etc. Or something else, something she's got away with? If they're going to use her to threaten John or Sherlock's life then it'll have to be something incredibly serious they can hold over her. Because, well, you'd just suck it up and go to prison wouldn't you, rather than put someone else in danger?

ElephantsAndMiasmas Wed 08-Jan-14 12:31:58

CAM's obvs got something on Mycroft though hasn't he? We know nuffink about him, he could have done anything. And Sherlock always calls him the man who runs the country.

HuevosRancheros Wed 08-Jan-14 12:40:42

Could that tie in with "the secret" that all the ladies working for Sholto had? i.e. they were all being blackmailed by CAM?

2rebecca Wed 08-Jan-14 13:09:50

I found it overly sentimental, I'm not surprised the Dr Who writer is writing this as I found many of the new Dr Who episodes too sentimental with overly complex links and clues from one episode to the next.

Yes, as the parent of totally SH and DrW obsessed DDs I do find the sentimental, clue dropping fanzine feeding style of Mr Moffit very smug, self important and down right irritating.

Both Dr Who and Sherlock should be able to stand up for themselves as single episodes or 2 parters, not as up their own arse semi soaps.

givemushypeasachance Wed 08-Jan-14 13:23:26

Mr Master Blackmailer who "has something on everyone of importance" is clearly going to have something juicy on Mr British Government.

Maybe he's found himself a goldfish to get emotionally attached to.

Moffat can do it "the girl in the fireplace" was superb.

He needs to resist letting the obsessed teens on Twitter, brought up on HP and Twilight, with their desire to over analyse every angle, getting in the way of strong main stories.

RustyBear Wed 08-Jan-14 13:40:58

Another possible loose end - did the rest of Lestrade's team actually manage to catch the bank robbers in the act when Sherlock called him away? and if so, did they get a conviction?

RustyBear Wed 08-Jan-14 13:51:47

Steven Moffat: “I think people have come to think a plot hole is something which isn’t explained on screen. A plot hole is actually something that can’t be explained."

Or a plot hole "is bloodly lazy writing"

THECliffRichardSucksEggsinHell Wed 08-Jan-14 16:24:04

Star you are totally right there, all the SH stories stood up by themselves and if you haven't read them I urge you to do so. ARE YOU READING THIS MR MARK GATISS??? Now get out of your own arsehole and stay true to ACD thank you very much, are you a fan or just a sycophant?

THERhubarb Wed 08-Jan-14 16:29:43

And the Sherlock Holmes Society of London just received their newest member...... smile

(it's no longer Christmas, bye bye Cliffy old chum)

AndiMac Wed 08-Jan-14 17:41:21

Actually, Arthur Conan Doyle wasn't particularly attached to Sherlock Holmes. Someone wanted to adapt a stage play using Sherlock Holmes that he had written, so when they wrote to ask permission, he wrote back, "You may marry him, murder him, or do anything you like to him." So I don't have a problem following cannon. I do have a problem about it not being very suspenseful and wasting the short amount of time it is on air.

Allthingsprettyreturns Wed 08-Jan-14 17:56:18

Just dropping in to say tjis tjread was in fiscussiom of tje day yesterday.

preens

Allthingsprettyreturns Wed 08-Jan-14 17:58:51

Ok I have read a few of the SH short stories. Who is goi.g to reccomend some to me?

Punkatheart Wed 08-Jan-14 22:53:04

Not attached is an understand. Doyle eventually hated Holmes and tried to murder the bugger. only to have readers ask for him back.

He had lots of other work and no one wanted to read it.

I will have to reread all the originals, they were the first 'adult books' I ever read, when I was about 12. That's 34 years ago, so I can't exactly remember the details.

Punkatheart Wed 08-Jan-14 23:44:32

I meant understatement, not understand. Tired brain.

ElephantsAndMiasmas Thu 09-Jan-14 08:11:33

Me too Starball. I was about 12 when I got into Sherlock Holmes and LOVED it. I don't like watching or reading about violence, but the genius of Holmes is, it's not about the criminal or the crime really, it's about logic and people and how they think.

I'd read Homes and Agatha Christy, then loads of thrillers, Jack Higgins, Dick Francis etc. so a far bit of violence, but still the story was more important.

teejwood Thu 09-Jan-14 09:20:31

I read the books years ago, too. These days I binge-read/ re-read detective stories when there is a good kindle deal! Hence Montalbano, Father Brown, SH etc grin

teejwood Thu 09-Jan-14 09:23:26

I was a Christie book addict back in the day - DC's now love the re-runs of the TV series on ITV3 and I get odd looks when they say "Yeah - Poirot!" grin
DC1 is expressing an interest in reading the books and is watching previously vetted episodes of Sherlock. We haven't let him watch the current series as yet - will see how the final ep pans out.

THERhubarb Thu 09-Jan-14 09:36:22

punkatheart I've read his other books! I'm a bit of a Doyle fan and collect antiquarian books of his. I've read the White Company and Sir Nigel which I honestly found to be a bit too romantic for my liking, full of damsels in distress and chivalry and all that, but then he was brought up with a love of historial romances thanks to his mother who traced her ancestors back to the House of Plantaganet.

In fact at Uni my dissertation was on his works and how they were affected by his growing enthusiasm for Spiritualism.

I do admire the person that he was and his writing, but my biggest love was his Holmes stories and novels. I think he captured the imagination of the public and though he never felt that they were his best works, I beg to differ. He would be a little narked to be only remembered for Holmes to say the least, but also a little proud perhaps that 150 years on his character is still going strong.

If you have seen the Sherlock series from the beginning then I suggest you read the Study in Scarlet as you'll find many familiar scenes that you can identify with. This also illustrates Doyle's knowledge of history.

The Hound of the Baskervilles is not a favourite for nothing. The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes, to me, reflects the best of his writing skills whilst they were at their freshest and he still retained some fondness for his character.

THERhubarb Thu 09-Jan-14 09:37:40

Sorry, those recommendations were for Allthingsprettyreturns

Punkatheart Thu 09-Jan-14 09:51:23

I have only read all the Sherlock stories, not his other works, which have never appealed. I was until recently a member of the Sherlock Holmes Society and when I went to meet them last year, I laughed because they could only be members of the Sherlock Holmes Society! They were awfully nice but very tweedy and a little sniffy about the 'girl fans' who were joining.

I agree Rhubarb that Conan Doyle was a fascinating character - lots of layers to him. I would love to know how he would feel about Sherlock now and if we were to believe the author, a seance would help!

hackmum Thu 09-Jan-14 09:57:19

Huevos: "He's Magnussen in this, the beardy Danish guy you all seem to be lusting over"

And I'd just like to have it on the record how happy it makes me that he is going to be in Sherlock - for Scandi fans like me, could it get any better?

THERhubarb Thu 09-Jan-14 10:14:47

I will be going to one of their meetings Punkatheart. When I was younger I was a member of the Northern Musgraves, a society based up north. They were similarly sniffy and I just loved winding them all up. I don't care what they think of girl fans, I know just as much as they do but perhaps take it all less seriously. I may even join the Arthur Conan Doyle Society too, just for a contrast and to make them even more sniffy grin

I don't believe in Spiritualism. I went to a couple of their gatherings when I was writing my dissertation. I found it quite preposterous tbh.

Doyle did have an excellent sense of humour so I'm sure he would find it all quite amusing. He'd be narked that his historical novels haven't got the attention he felt they deserved, but he'd realise that an interest in Sherlock Holmes would lead to an interest in himself as the author and possibly some new readers of his other novels.

I think I would have liked the man. I've not read anything bad about him.

Now I really must find my leathers to wear for my first SH Society meeting.

givemushypeasachance Thu 09-Jan-14 12:27:07

There was a BAFTA preview screening of His Last Vow last night. The initial reactions are very promising - darker, thrilling, bucket loads of plot, seen a few people saying it's overwhelmingly the best episode of Sherlock ever. The Guardian have posted a review with several spoilers in so would advise not reading if you want to come to it fresh, but Den of Geek has a good spoiler-free write up here.

HuevosRancheros Thu 09-Jan-14 14:22:21

Ooh, good review, excited now!
Thanks smile

BOFalicious Thu 09-Jan-14 18:33:13

Ooh, I can't wait- it sounds excellent.

OddBoots Sun 12-Jan-14 14:07:00

Not long until the 3rd one now. grin

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