Educating Yorkshire C4 9pm

(629 Posts)
DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 05-Sep-13 20:28:03

Am looking forward to this, RL Waterloo Rd?

smallandimperfectlyformed Thu 05-Sep-13 20:30:10

I can't wait to see the girl who's shaved her eyebrows off and redrawn them! I'm really looking forward to it

EsTutMirLeid Thu 05-Sep-13 20:31:13

I can't bring myself to watch it, I can't, I'd rather not know. Having said that the eyebrow girl seems hilarious!

Dillydollydaydream Thu 05-Sep-13 20:32:16

I liked educating Essex so hopefully this will be good too.

FriskyMare Thu 05-Sep-13 20:34:22

I wonder if any mn'ers dc go to this school grin

PuppyMummy Thu 05-Sep-13 20:38:37

Im a teacher in Yorkshire. Our school was asked to take part but the Head declined!
Its on my sky+ ready to tape!

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 05-Sep-13 20:45:49

Oh puppy what a spoilsport. You could've been famous like that bloke on the coach trip thing or ... Er some other people who've been on documentaries.

FlatsInDagenham Thu 05-Sep-13 20:49:30

I'm a teacher and taught at this school for one term on supply quite a few years ago (about 10). Very excited about the prog!

SuffolkNWhat Thu 05-Sep-13 20:59:17

Another teacher here but no connection to the school, looking forward to watching this series.

Wonderstuff Thu 05-Sep-13 21:07:14

Liking the head

Sparklingbrook Thu 05-Sep-13 21:07:22

Hello. I love eyebrows girl. The Head doesn't look like a Head does he?

Wonderstuff Thu 05-Sep-13 21:08:52

I work in a school down south in similar circumstances. We got national average results for the first time ever this summer.

sailorsgal Thu 05-Sep-13 21:09:14

OMG the makeup! My dsis is a beauty therapist and she says they have the best skin they will ever have and they put all that slap on. [Grin]

Sparklingbrook Thu 05-Sep-13 21:10:09

Oh no eyebrows girl was smoking. sad

Wonderstuff Thu 05-Sep-13 21:10:26

Why do teenage girls wear such awful foundation?

RoonilWazlibWuvsHermyown Thu 05-Sep-13 21:11:39

Mr Mitchell, yes please! blush

SuffolkNWhat Thu 05-Sep-13 21:13:02

Barrowclough, like Porridge?

Loving it!

MooMinCow Thu 05-Sep-13 21:13:39

Bailey (eyebrows) does NOT look like a teenager shock

And did you see their foundation stained collars?

ravenAK Thu 05-Sep-13 21:14:22

Our HT bottled it also PuppyMummy wink.

Bailey is ace.

sailorsgal Thu 05-Sep-13 21:15:24

Those girls look about 35.

Pimpf Thu 05-Sep-13 21:15:25

So far loving the head

Nerfmother Thu 05-Sep-13 21:15:34

Oooooh yes to me Mitchell

I'm liking it so far.

Ew about the gum though.

WetAugust Thu 05-Sep-13 21:17:11

Why is the teacher calling the pupils "mate" and "darling".

They are not his mates

RoonilWazlibWuvsHermyown Thu 05-Sep-13 21:18:13

I'm shocked by how much older the girls look! Like the 16 year old on X factor the other day. No way would I have pegged her at 16 and some of these girls (bar the uniform) look so much older shock

Hassled Thu 05-Sep-13 21:18:41

I love the Head. Seems very young to be Head of a Secondary though.

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 05-Sep-13 21:18:45

Love it.

Teenage girls, the hair, the trowelled on Make-up, drawn on eye brows, something pierced and a tattoo. Check.

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 05-Sep-13 21:19:38

Hassled a sign of age that smile

I've recorded.

Wish they'd done it in Hull.

timidviper Thu 05-Sep-13 21:22:53

I know I am an old gimmer but I have my cat's bum mouth at full intensity and my judgey pants up to my chin! I cannot believe the lack of respect for authority and the fact that a head is put in a position of having to ask one disrespectful child to try to persuade an even more disrespectful child to behave reasonably.

The head looks great but I do not envy him his job one bit.

SpidercalledChester Thu 05-Sep-13 21:25:04

Love that the head just used 'Poirot' as an analogy. Unless he's got them all on an intensive Agatha Christie appreciation course, by guess is that Cameron wouldn't have the foggiest idea what he meant!

SpidercalledChester Thu 05-Sep-13 21:25:10

my guess

AcrylicPlexiglass Thu 05-Sep-13 21:25:45

lol @maybe you're going through the menopause!

ggirl Thu 05-Sep-13 21:26:39

love these kids

Sparklingbrook Thu 05-Sep-13 21:26:41

Does a head at Secondary really get this involved in disputes between kids?

EggsFlorentine Thu 05-Sep-13 21:26:42

Mr. Mitchell is getting me all hot and bothered

grin menopause!

I live in Yorkshire in a town with a bad reputation and am not at all shocked.

"Miss, maybe you're going through the menopause"!!!!

PrincessFlirtyPants Thu 05-Sep-13 21:27:25

Awww! I heart little Ryan!

Gingerstrumpet Thu 05-Sep-13 21:27:32

I want a Ryan.

So cute.

ggirl Thu 05-Sep-13 21:27:44

Chrisy Bailey does look about 40 yrs old

StephenFrySaidSo Thu 05-Sep-13 21:27:59

oh I am loving mr headteacher and bailey!

Wonderstuff Thu 05-Sep-13 21:28:08

It must be a pretty small school?

StephenFrySaidSo Thu 05-Sep-13 21:28:30

and ryan is a wee sweetheart!

Sparklingbrook Thu 05-Sep-13 21:28:46

I thought the same ggirl

AcrylicPlexiglass Thu 05-Sep-13 21:29:09

Ryan is fab!

Silverfoxballs Thu 05-Sep-13 21:29:50

DS said instant detention for menopause comment at his school.

RoonilWazlibWuvsHermyown Thu 05-Sep-13 21:29:50

Why does Bailey get the chance to be in the parliament bit? What about the kids who are always good?

Sparklysilversequins Thu 05-Sep-13 21:30:23

I think that was a great tactic he used getting her mate to speak to her. She will be excluded if she doesn't go back in there. He's giving a defiant teenager who has backed herself into a corner a chance to come out of it and feel like she has some sort of control as in "well I did it because my MATE asked me not because HE did". End result she's not excluded and he gets her back where he wants her, getting his own way completely. It's creative.

Sparklingbrook Thu 05-Sep-13 21:31:25

Aww a dog bite. Poor Bailey.

ggirl Thu 05-Sep-13 21:31:36

hahahahah at Bailey!!!!!!

Auntfini Thu 05-Sep-13 21:31:47

Baileys a nice girl.
Funny how you see the same sort of kids everywhere! There's a bailey and a Ryan etc in my school too

SuffolkNWhat Thu 05-Sep-13 21:32:24

Just over 700 pupils

Discogeek Thu 05-Sep-13 21:32:25

This is my old school & I have to say it's not that different to how I remember it a fair few years ago! Although there's probably less swearing than when I was there, we can swear good in these partswink

StephenFrySaidSo Thu 05-Sep-13 21:33:08

are the comments about bailey looking 40 about the amount of make-up she has on? because otherwise that is quite horrible to say about a teenage girl who clearly has issues about her appearance.

Wonderstuff Thu 05-Sep-13 21:34:56

Agree sparkley you could stop bailey from doing any good stuff and give it all to the good kids, but bailey is likely to have low self esteem and no confidence in her abilities, giving her a chance at feeling better about herself and ultimately achieving much more and improving her behaviour.

I've just put it on and already it reminds me of high school blush

The head looks more like a bouncer!

I think they were about the make-up Stephen - I thought the amount of foundation she wears is ageing, but I hadn't noticed her scars. She's just covering them as best as she knows.

StephenFrySaidSo Thu 05-Sep-13 21:35:40

"Why does Bailey get the chance to be in the parliament bit? What about the kids who are always good?"

1) I think she was going to try and be a prefect, not in the parliament.

2) if she was in the parliament she wouldn't be in it alone- there would be others there too- what makes you think they wont be some of the 'good all the time' ones?

SpidercalledChester Thu 05-Sep-13 21:36:53

I didn't see a single coat in the shots of the kids coming into school in the snow shock

Wonderstuff Thu 05-Sep-13 21:36:59

They are about make-up, it does make them look older than they are.

My old high school as apparently started handing wipes out for make up at the gates.

My year was so bad at the uniform that the following year had totally different uniform to wear.

Silverfoxballs Thu 05-Sep-13 21:39:22

None of the dc where I live wear coats, their hard oop North. I saw a lad in just a school polo shirt on a minus 7 day last winter.

Girls weren't allowed wear trousers at our school, and if your skirt was too short one of our teachers would cellotape newspaper to the end of it!!

RoonilWazlibWuvsHermyown Thu 05-Sep-13 21:40:10

The good kids can have low self esteem too. Being well behaved doesn't mean they don't need any chances to feel better about themselves.

But yeah you're right, other kids will probably be involved so I think I was too quick to comment on that one!

Bue Thu 05-Sep-13 21:40:13

The head looks more like a bouncer!

My initial thought was that he looked more like a member of the EDL! I almost like him more for the fact that he is quite an unlikely looking head. I'm quite impressed by him so far.

sailorsgal Thu 05-Sep-13 21:40:56

Little sods!

My brother doesn't wear his coat in winter either. Tbh I dont think I did.

I loved Isolation. I was out there for my tattoo if it was seen by a teacher. All I did was word searches and spoke to people in there

StephenFrySaidSo Thu 05-Sep-13 21:43:11

did that lady who they threw the snowballs at say that her husband challenged them all to a physical fight to see who would be left standing? shock

AcrylicPlexiglass Thu 05-Sep-13 21:43:55

Did that male teacher just call the female teacher a dog? shock

Hassled Thu 05-Sep-13 21:44:23

Kammren shock. What were they thinking? It's CAMERON.

StephenFrySaidSo Thu 05-Sep-13 21:44:51

I think he did acrylic!

StephenFrySaidSo Thu 05-Sep-13 21:45:30

it's kammrem

AcrylicPlexiglass Thu 05-Sep-13 21:45:37

Oh Ryan. I love you.

ravenAK Thu 05-Sep-13 21:46:49

Good natured banter.

My male colleague called me a foul, black & midnight hag yesterday for interrupting his lesson to borrow gluesticks.

''s OK, Mrs Raven's a goth year 8, she loves it when I call her that.'

StephenFrySaidSo Thu 05-Sep-13 21:47:38

or rather kamrrem

SpidercalledChester Thu 05-Sep-13 21:47:49

His Dad's from Pakistan Hassled and Kamran is probably the origin (a Persian prince IIRC), presumably a variant spelling of that.

ggirl Thu 05-Sep-13 21:47:55

I thought his parents would have been involved ages ago !!

sailorsgal Thu 05-Sep-13 21:48:00

Cameron has serious ishoos!

Wonderstuff Thu 05-Sep-13 21:48:22


StephenFrySaidSo Thu 05-Sep-13 21:48:33

foul, black and midnight hag grin

SpidercalledChester Thu 05-Sep-13 21:48:37

(although I had not noticed the m at the end tbh).

umbrellaqueen Thu 05-Sep-13 21:48:40

loving it, a lot of good work going on in that school.

I'm not feeling very optimistic about Kamrrem, but I hope that I'm wrong & he's able to turn things around.

GlitterFingers Thu 05-Sep-13 21:49:24

Only just phoning his mother in confusedhmm

If my child was being that naughty at school id want to know the first time not the 76th time

Hassled Thu 05-Sep-13 21:50:15

Lovely Head does seem a bit over-involved. I'm guessing there's a small intake.

roundtable Thu 05-Sep-13 21:51:05

I reckon they'll be a suitably self righteous baby names thread tomorrow.

I wish they did a primary school one. I think people would be shocked if they saw where it started from.

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 05-Sep-13 21:51:07

Think Kamrren needs more help than just his mother coming in. Can't help thinking that she is probably part of the problem.

Nerfmother Thu 05-Sep-13 21:51:20

So what are we doing to support kameron? Behaviour support plan? Assessment? Ed psych? Or shall we just exclude him? Maybe eye contact is a problem?

StephenFrySaidSo Thu 05-Sep-13 21:51:22

agree glitterfingers do you think it is only the first call in she's had? i'd be shocked tbh if it is.

ravenAK Thu 05-Sep-13 21:51:56

Not really, standard HT firefighting IME, Hassled.

StephenFrySaidSo Thu 05-Sep-13 21:52:17

why do you think that dame? (about his mum)

AcrylicPlexiglass Thu 05-Sep-13 21:54:15

No- not acceptable as good natured banter, I'm afraid. Disgraceful. Your goth comment is different and funny, raven.

Awww little Ryan with the deep voice

GlitterFingers Thu 05-Sep-13 21:55:27

I'd hope it isn't the first time but the way the head said it was like he hadn't done it before

umbrellaqueen Thu 05-Sep-13 21:56:18

sounds like thay have done a lot of work over the 2 years to help kam!

Nerfmother Thu 05-Sep-13 21:56:19

Sorry? Wtf are you laying this on kameron for? Deal with it head. What a load of bollocks.

Nerfmother Thu 05-Sep-13 21:56:51

Like what? What help? Talking about him like that over his head.

StephenFrySaidSo Thu 05-Sep-13 21:57:23

grin at bailey telling mr Mitchell about drawing on her eyebrows in the morning!

5madthings Thu 05-Sep-13 21:57:25

I like the ht,

bailey seems like a nice girl, I wondered about the make up but this understandable why she does it given her scars.

Cameron/kammrrem has potential but obviously needs support.

Interesting programme.

RudolphLovesoftplay Thu 05-Sep-13 21:57:54

Pick your battles....."take your feet off the table".

Also, the HT called Bailey Bailster, what's that all about?

RoonilWazlibWuvsHermyown Thu 05-Sep-13 21:58:09

Do any of these girls have real eyebrows? shock when did this become a thing for teenage girls?!

Nerfmother Thu 05-Sep-13 21:59:44

Head is loathsome and trying to be mates with them all. Poor me, hope kameron realises I've tried to help him shock bailster shock argh!

StephenFrySaidSo Thu 05-Sep-13 22:00:22

a couple of years or so roonil I have a very 'on trend' cousin who has been doing it for about 2 years- it's hideous looking isn't it?

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 05-Sep-13 22:00:41

StephenFry in my experience disruptive students tend to have disruptive lives.

I haven't changed my view since seeing and hearing Kamrrems mum.

Yay Ryan!

RudolphLovesoftplay Thu 05-Sep-13 22:00:46

The HT is seriously getting on my nerves

Meglet Thu 05-Sep-13 22:01:17

I don't want my DC's to become teenagers, I'd forgotten how awful senior school was <<wails>>.

RoonilWazlibWuvsHermyown Thu 05-Sep-13 22:01:30

I mean I can't judge really coz I have caterpillars on my face but none of them look very natural do they? shock

juniper75 Thu 05-Sep-13 22:02:00

Eee I loved that.

StephenFrySaidSo Thu 05-Sep-13 22:02:50

well something about the head is working for the school as it got most improved school.

Little shits throwing snowballs at a 70 year old man!

Silverfoxballs Thu 05-Sep-13 22:05:55

Ryan is so lovely he is just like an old man already.

StephenFrySaidSo Thu 05-Sep-13 22:06:03

"StephenFry in my experience disruptive students tend to have disruptive lives. "

why would that be just down to his mum and not his dad?

sarcasticrobot Thu 05-Sep-13 22:06:06

I was looking forward to a new series after educating essex and it didn't disappoint especially the head he was amazing

The eyebrows on Bailey though were just hilarious you have got to be a daft teanager to think it looks good

grin at Ryan and his Latte.

StephenFrySaidSo Thu 05-Sep-13 22:09:24

I've come to the conclusion that for teens, something doesn't have to look good- it just has to look 'right'- as in, it has to look like what the current trend is and all their friends will be doing. and there will always be the few that have to do it 'bigger' than the rest. whether it looks good or not is irrelevant as long as it is the right 'look'.

WetAugust Thu 05-Sep-13 22:09:53

The look is not confined to daft teenagers unfortunately. Plenty of 20s also drawing in the big Elizabeth Taylor look.


I could send you pictures of some friends of mine and their eyebrows and I would say they beat Baileys grin

I think its the in thing.

Well done Ryan! Cant believe how deep his voice is.

Doesn't seem bad at all. My school was on dispatches! This school seems take grin

Ruprekt Thu 05-Sep-13 23:12:35

Great programme! Loved it!smile

PuppyMummy Thu 05-Sep-13 23:25:35

I loved it to! Similar to my school so no shocks.

I was suprised that the head got involved so much with day to day behaviour issues - what are his heads of year doing when he is doing their jobs?!

I thought Bailey was ace! loved the drawn on eyebrows!

Darkesteyes Thu 05-Sep-13 23:31:18

I think Bailey should have been given a trial period as a prefect. After all Kamren was given chance after chance after chance.
They should at the very least let her wear a bit of foundation if that helps her confidence.
She seems a lovely girl to me.

Loved Bailey and Ryan! Nearly choked on my drink at the "maybe it's the menopause Miss" comment grin

beatback Thu 05-Sep-13 23:53:11

Depressing awful and worrying for the future of the "COUNTRY". I bet that makes me sound like an old fogey.

If this is the average Comprehensive in a area of low Economic opportunity, i weep for the poor sods who have to go there"Education blighted" by cameron and the other "Horrible" bottom 20% of kids who should be Educated in Secure schools giving the mainstream 50% a shot at a proper Education. The top 30% need to to be sent to "Grammar Schools" "NOT LIKED ON THIS SITE". If a School offers pupils a chance to be a Prefect on the basis that because they have not been in isolation what does that say about the School.

God help us if this school is in the top 25 most improved Schools in the Country "WHAT HAVE THEY IMPROVED" . Did Mr Mitchell really want to join West yorkshire Police and only became a teacher when they turned him down because when he talks to the kids he sounds like a boring desk Sergeant.

Ryan was doing my nut in if I'm honest. Precocious know-it-all little show off. Baileys mate was an interloper surely? A mum going to school for her kid probably. grin

Sparklysilversequins Fri 06-Sep-13 00:07:39

I preferred Kam to Ryan tbh.

WetAugust Fri 06-Sep-13 00:11:47


That school was Eton compared to my DS's local comp. It really was a zoo!

I am appalled that they have an isolation unit which seems to be permanently staffed by someone. What a waste of resources.

But it's virtually impossible to permanently exclude children from State schools so the holding pen of isolation is probably the only way they can contain that disruptive element.

timidviper Fri 06-Sep-13 01:18:36

beatback I too worry about the future of the country when I see programmes like this but I remember my grandparents saying this when I was young so I guess people have been saying that forever and a day

PuppyMummy Fri 06-Sep-13 06:54:57

wetaugust We have an isolation room, staffed like the one there. Why is it a waste?

its a really valuable space for a pupil who has had a big behaviour issue to calm down.

It also means that if a pupil is disrupting a lesson they can be removed to somewhere else (what else would you do with them?)

It gives schools another avenue to try rather than a fixed term exclusion

It gives skilled staff a chance to work with pupils who have behaviour issues, one-one and build a relationship with them

PuppyMummy Fri 06-Sep-13 06:58:03

and also its not 'Virtually impossible' to permenantly exclude if you have exhausted all avenues of support for that pupil and have documented evidence that you cannot meet their needs.

Isolation is not a long term 'holding area' for those at risk of permenant exclusion.
(and if it is then the school is failing its pupils).

nennypops Fri 06-Sep-13 07:22:49

Beatback, I'm afraid you do sound old fogeyish, and the capital letters and quote marks don't help. Apart from anything else, they don't get the chance to be prefects just because they haven't been in isolation; the point is that being in isolation means they can't stand for election. They clearly have to demonstrate in other ways that they're fit for the job. Pay attention at the back!

buss Fri 06-Sep-13 08:43:31

'in my experience disruptive students tend to have disruptive lives.

I haven't changed my view since seeing and hearing Kamrrems mum.'

What did Kammrem's mum do to support that view? How judgemental.

I like the Head and I like his approach. Obviously there is a lot that has gone on that we haven't seen.

The Head of Year 7 seemed ineffective though and who was the other woman who kept talking over her when they were both speaking to Kamrem?

Dobbiesmum Fri 06-Sep-13 10:34:47

That was really interesting last night, it looks like Kammrem turned himself around aft his exclusion, I really hope he keeps at it. He reminds me of my DS in a way (although DS didn't get into that much trouble last year!). Bailey was a hoot and Ryan was a real character, if a little annoying..
It's interesting watching this and the documentary on Harrow school in the same week. In all honesty I think I preferred the Yorkshire school in a way. Hard to explain why though.

beatback Fri 06-Sep-13 12:03:37

I was expecting "RITA AND SUE" to turn up with BOB waiting at the School Gates!

The very depressing thing is that at the moment on tv we have two joke Schools "BIG SCHOOL" BAD EDUCATION" one fantasy school called WATERLOO ROAD" which tries to shock, but all three schools are better schools than "THORNHILL" Waterloo Road looks by comparison like a place of higher learning.

If the television company involved wanted to show state education in a positive light why not for "Educating Yorkshire" did they not use Crossley Heath Grammar School.

Instead we have "SKY" television giving "HARROW" a free "MULTI POUND" overseas promotional campaign. This showing State Education in all the worst ways. An example of how unfortunate these kids are is that my niece thought her her best friend was a bit nice bit dim by only getting 1C "2Ds at Alevel. If only my Niece knew what "DIM REALLY IS".

StephenFrySaidSo Fri 06-Sep-13 13:00:09

beatback why are you putting your own comments in quotation marks?

as for bailey- they didn't offer her a chance to be a prefect. she asked if she could and mr Mitchell told her that she couldn't if she went back into isolation. I imagine any other pupil who applied and then went to isolation would also have been told they had lost their chance at being a prefect.

StephenFrySaidSo Fri 06-Sep-13 13:04:28

multi pound? what, like £4 or something? kerching! grin

"a place of higher learning" you mean like a college or university?

beatback Fri 06-Sep-13 14:22:21

Stephen. Cos am a bit fick i was edukated at a skcool like Fornhull. Seriously my School was crap but it was no Thornhill.

I have just seen the promo for next week"s show and a kid called Danny Kendall gets voted in as Head boy .

I was thinking more like Harvard/Yale or our own esteemed oxbridge Colleges.

beatback Fri 06-Sep-13 14:48:09

Sorry Stephen i was rushing out and i have just read it i meant to write a Multi Million pound Advertising campaign. I realise that because i am a bit outspoken,i am up for ridicule when my written words and sentences are incorrect.

please though have a bit of patience with me, after not having had the greatest Education and not writting for over 20 years i am learning as i write.

Feelslikea1sttimer Fri 06-Sep-13 15:52:08

puppymummy are you a teacher at whitcliffe mount? My Boys came home telling me that they were asked but the head turned it down...

Fabulous show

How on earth do teachers stand up in front of a class of girls who all have orange faces and giant eyebrows without laughing (or at least snorting with suppressed hysteria). I am in awe of them.

PuppyMummy Fri 06-Sep-13 16:42:56

feels no, not a teacher there!

I think you get used to seeing them like that! I tend to just laugh in my head!

There was a trend a year or two back to foundtion and powder over your lips and not add coloured lipstick so it just looked like they had no lips!!

The eyebrow drawing thing came from a reality show set in Liverpool. Its a 'scouse brow'! (not my term)

It looks like they've been experimenting with Sharpies grin.

StephenFrySaidSo Fri 06-Sep-13 17:00:30

oh puppy I remember that look too!

there is a make-up artist from Dublin who posts make-up tutorials and she posted a spoof one of how to do your make-up for going back to school- it was hilarious. orange circle of foundation. bright pink cheeks. no lips. black eyes all over the eyelid and black eyebrows (this was a few years ago- not so much the trend now) I've watched it a few times it's that funny- and accurate.

coco27 Fri 06-Sep-13 19:03:47

How on earth do teachers stand up in front of a class of girls who all have orange faces and giant eyebrows without laughing

maybe because they have more manners and respect for the children?
The one thing that I did think was very touching was how fond the kids were of Mr Mitchell and the other teachers

discogeek My grandad was the deputy head there for years, maybe he taught you?

Wonderstuff Fri 06-Sep-13 20:32:53

Those saying the school was awful, what was so bad? The reality is this is how these kids arrive, with attitude, without any automatic respect for authority, I get a half dozen a year who can't read, teenagers who can't tell the time or know the alphabet.. Working with these kids is hard, it takes patience and understanding. But seeing them arrive as children with attitude and seeing them leave as (mostly) maturing adults with qualifications and ambition, is a real privilege.

If teachers give up on difficult kids their future is really bleak. I'm very proud to teach SEN and to teach in a school with a largely council estate intake.

timidviper Fri 06-Sep-13 21:22:34

I don't think the school is awful Wonder but I am amazed at the lack of respect those children show. It might be the reality but it is very sad. I cannot believe any family finds that acceptable but I guess the homelife is part of the problem.

One of my previous jobs involved visiting childrens homes and secure units and I never failed to be struck by how great these young people were in the right situations with the right support. It's so sad that they didn't get that until they hit the rocks

I have the greatest respect for teachers who can deal with that, I just know I couldn't

PuppyMummy Fri 06-Sep-13 21:24:36

wonderstuff Snap! I love my job.

I teach a class with a focus on literacy & numeracy they come mainly not being able to write a sentence or read one.
My main job has a specific focus on pastoral care and is very rewarding.

The kids on the programme are like mine and I wouldn't swap them!

AcrylicPlexiglass Sat 07-Sep-13 11:04:55

88% of children at Thornhill got 5 A*-C GCSEs this year. That is hardly a failing school full of children whose education has been blighted, beatback. Quite the reverse.

Nancy66 Sat 07-Sep-13 12:48:46

I liked the head a lot. His approach is clearly working.
I imagine that, in a school like that, coming in with all guns blazing and being very strict and Victorian from the off would have backfired.

I thought Ryan was adorable and I liked Bailey a lot too.

Kamrran seemed very unpleasant. Seemed to treat others very badly/violently and then cried 'racism' when anyone retaliated.

SoonToBeSix Sat 07-Sep-13 13:21:22

Ryan is like Peter Perfect he makes me want to vomit . I liked Bailey though she seems a nice kid.

Nancy66 Sat 07-Sep-13 13:41:10

Bit extreme SoontobeSix - he struck me as a very bright kid who has probably struggled with confidence/being accepted in the past.

noblegiraffe Sat 07-Sep-13 13:49:23

Thornhill has gone from 29% 5 A*-C inc English and Maths in 2009 to 63% in 2012. No wonder they are proud of what they are doing.

coco27 Sat 07-Sep-13 14:52:11

They have probably got more adept at finding easier qualifications for the kids to do.

Wonderstuff Sat 07-Sep-13 14:59:15

Bollocks coco sorry but angers me that the assumption when schools improve is that they have magically found some easy exams. Their is outrage that schools are failing kids when they get poor results and disbelief when results improve. When I look back at how I was taught and compare it to today's teaching the difference is stark. Teaching has improved dramatically in the past 30 years.

noblegiraffe Sat 07-Sep-13 14:59:28

English and maths aren't easy hmm

It's not normally the three other GCSEs that are the problem.

buss Sat 07-Sep-13 15:17:14

what are these 'easier' exams then coco?

IslaValargeone Sat 07-Sep-13 15:21:30

"He makes me want to vomit" What an awful thing to say Soontobe.
I thought Ryan was a fabulous young man, with so much potential. I hope he continues to grow in confidence and go on to great things.

Wonderstuff Sat 07-Sep-13 15:25:06

My school improved its results in a similar way, the kids aren't much brighter, the exams aren't easier... More of our teachers are good, the retention of staff has improved, but crucially, through a combination of staff efforts and improved facilities we have raised the aspirations of the students.

Meglet Sat 07-Sep-13 18:26:52

wonderstuff I was dead pleased to see your school had improved results this year smile.

catgirl1976 Sat 07-Sep-13 21:02:52

I watched this l like this shock and catsbum mouth

I don't want DS to go to school now if that's what it is like these days

Where was the respect? sad

OddBoots Sat 07-Sep-13 21:34:21

Do you realise how nasty that sounds, coco27?

I'm watching this on catch-up now, it's great to see how they are treating them like individuals.

WetAugust Sat 07-Sep-13 21:37:38

Catgirl 88% in GCSEs means it's a good school. But I know exactly what you mean.

Wonderstuff Sat 07-Sep-13 23:01:41

meglet we're predicting even better results next year smile

M0naLisa Sun 08-Sep-13 13:08:24

I enjoyed this show. Was very much like my old high school near Wakefield. The HT was fun, I think the high school I went to would have enjoyed a head like him.

coco27 Sun 08-Sep-13 16:33:54

btecs and diplomas ''equivalent'' to many gcses.I know thegovt is on to this now but i don't thinkthey were in the 2012 cycle

noblegiraffe Sun 08-Sep-13 16:36:20

Equivalents are still allowed.

That still doesn't take away from the fact that 63% of those kids came away with good GCSEs in Maths and English, opening many doors for them, and better than the national average.

coco27 Sun 08-Sep-13 16:54:08

Buit some of these diploma include a maths and English element.Are you sure they don't count ?

noblegiraffe Sun 08-Sep-13 17:05:39

Here are the Maths and English equivalents that count in the measure:

GCSE in English; or
Enter both English Language GCSE and English Literature GCSE and achieved A*-C in English Language; or
GCSE Double Award in English; or
Cambridge International Certificate in First Language English; or
CIE legacy iGCSE in English – First Language; or
AS English; and

GCSE mathematics; or
GCSE Additional mathematics; or
Enter both GCSE Applications of Mathematics and GCSE Methods in Mathematics and achieved A*-C in either; or
Cambridge International Certificate in Mathematics; or
CIE legacy iGCSE in Mathematics; or
AS mathematics

No easy options there, I think.

bigTillyMint Sun 08-Sep-13 17:09:05

coco27, is it so inconceivable that kids at the school would be able to get a GCSE in Maths and English?
The programme will have been heavily edited - it's not good TV to show classes of engaged pupils studying.

coco27 Sun 08-Sep-13 17:18:48

oh ok.I stand corrected.

StephenFrySaidSo Sun 08-Sep-13 18:17:52

exactly bigtilly bear in mind this is channel4.

StephenFrySaidSo Sun 08-Sep-13 18:18:33

sorry, there should have been a full stop after bigtilly

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 12-Sep-13 21:02:31

Back on tha knows

Lilka Thu 12-Sep-13 21:03:24

I'm watching, really liked last week smile

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 12-Sep-13 21:04:21

Fr these of you who live near, has there been any interesting press coverage?

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 12-Sep-13 21:04:54

Me too [smie]

AcrylicPlexiglass Thu 12-Sep-13 21:06:22

Good accent, Georgia!

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 12-Sep-13 21:07:11

She's a bit scary

Sparklingbrook Thu 12-Sep-13 21:08:03

I dunt ner.

AcrylicPlexiglass Thu 12-Sep-13 21:08:43

Not sure about the whistling, Mr Morrison.

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 12-Sep-13 21:10:33

Her neck is going a bit red

Auntfini Thu 12-Sep-13 21:10:59

Oh dear

Sparklingbrook Thu 12-Sep-13 21:11:46

This is all taking up a lot of time. sad

Do you think the 'statements' are normalising/trivialising police statements?

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 12-Sep-13 21:11:57

I feel really sorry for him

AcrylicPlexiglass Thu 12-Sep-13 21:12:46

Poor Jack. He seems really sorry.

Lilka Thu 12-Sep-13 21:13:15

Very unfair that she got away with nothing and he got 3 days in isolation

JC74 Thu 12-Sep-13 21:13:30

We've all seen Georgia's true colours now.

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 12-Sep-13 21:14:01

Jazz these are daily occurances and have to be dealt with quickly, otherwise things escAlate.

SuffolkNWhat Thu 12-Sep-13 21:14:23

Experience has taught me that the likes of Georgia do get their comeuppance.

Inkspellme Thu 12-Sep-13 21:14:57

doesn't seem fair she wasn't punished at all ....

I realise that I meant calling them statements iyswim

I think the way they deal with behaviour problems in this school is v good.

YoureBeingADick Thu 12-Sep-13 21:16:52

ooh Georgia!

"Do you think the 'statements' are normalising/trivialising police statements?"

what do you mean by this?

AcrylicPlexiglass Thu 12-Sep-13 21:18:27

He went for her though and no matter how insulting she was he needs to learn that is never ok. However, she should be in trouble for lying.

I get the impression that Mr Morrison prefers girls to boys a bit.

I mean whether calling them statements might make if they have to do a real police statement not seem like such a big deal?

SuffolkNWhat Thu 12-Sep-13 21:20:00

Er no

I feel sorry for jac

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 12-Sep-13 21:22:32

jazz what else would you call them? It's an investigation in to an incident.

GibberTheMonkey Thu 12-Sep-13 21:23:09

It did make me wonder there's more to it.

YoureBeingADick Thu 12-Sep-13 21:24:33

it's mr Mitchell smile

I agree acrylic. he was provoked. BUT he chose to react violently rather than walk away or ignore (very hard I know- I've been there). not acceptable at all.

I don't like Georgia tbh. not based on what ive seen so far.

not sure about the statements. you have to write statements for lots of things nowadays. like when I had an issue with income support I had to write a statement of who said what and when etc. you have to sign statements when applying for stuff. I think statement is the right word for the record of a fight in school tbh.

GibberTheMonkey Thu 12-Sep-13 21:27:46

We're about ten minutes behind. Just had that lad suggest that Jac had finally snapped after lots of provocation. I have some sympathy, my ds's school (young junior though) sided with the people treating my son like that. We eventually pulled him out of the school.
I'm glad Jac's getting help coping.
Georgia is not coming across we'll at all

SuffolkNWhat Thu 12-Sep-13 21:27:51

It's a statement of fact/witness statement. Tbh when you spend all your PPA time chasing up the bloody things it's hard to get too worked up about what they are called!

ShadeofViolet Thu 12-Sep-13 21:28:06

I feel a bit sorry for Jac. sad

SuffolkNWhat Thu 12-Sep-13 21:30:39

Oh dear SMH

Suffolk - fair enough!

AcrylicPlexiglass Thu 12-Sep-13 21:33:18

ooops! Mitchell!

YoureBeingADick Thu 12-Sep-13 21:34:00

what is SMH?

Did he just say 'crap on' ?

Wolfcub Thu 12-Sep-13 21:36:32

yes he definitely did

GibberTheMonkey Thu 12-Sep-13 21:36:42

Who does the year 11 (Jac and Georgia's) year head remind me of?

YoureBeingADick Thu 12-Sep-13 21:37:31

he did! what does crap on mean? did he mean crack on and say it wrong?

SuffolkNWhat Thu 12-Sep-13 21:38:06

Sorry SMH = shake my head, I spend my working surrounded by teenagers!

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 12-Sep-13 21:38:20

Martin Freeman?

Wolfcub Thu 12-Sep-13 21:38:31

no he meant talk shit

YoureBeingADick Thu 12-Sep-13 21:39:40

ah thanks wolfcub and Suffolk.

Mr Mitchell was right - she wants to be 25 but is too immature.

Who's baby was she on about with the Guinness?

SuffolkNWhat Thu 12-Sep-13 21:41:34

That one from League of Gentlemen, the young one, Reece something

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 12-Sep-13 21:44:02

Do you think she'll go to prom?

YoureBeingADick Thu 12-Sep-13 21:46:33

they cant possibly let her go now after her behaviour. she knew what was at stake and carried on it would make a farce of the whole rule/reward system if they let her go.

YoureBeingADick Thu 12-Sep-13 21:47:00

who was mr M writing that letter to btw?

SuffolkNWhat Thu 12-Sep-13 21:47:56

Staff email I reckon

I hope they don't let her go.

Think mr Mitchell was writing that email to all teachers

blueemerald Thu 12-Sep-13 21:48:32

Poor Jack.

blueemerald Thu 12-Sep-13 21:49:13

What he needs to 'do about this' is get rid of the nasty bullies in his school.

SuffolkNWhat Thu 12-Sep-13 21:50:01

It seems to me he is targeted because others know he will lash out, it's sport for them. Seen it time and again sad

Wolfcub Thu 12-Sep-13 21:50:24

if she goes to prom everything will be wrong with the school system

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 12-Sep-13 21:50:49

Dont feel sorry for Jack at all.

He needs to know you can't hit people. .especially women

He needs to learn this tough lesson now

YoureBeingADick Thu 12-Sep-13 21:51:38

has mr M had between his eyebrows waxed? looking a bit red when he was talking to jac. maybe just angry.

hotair Thu 12-Sep-13 21:52:01

I cannot believe how they are letting these horrible children bully jac. I am utterly disgusted. Yes he shouldn't hit them but it is so unfair. He is such a genuinely nice guy with nice friends

LegoAcupuncture Thu 12-Sep-13 21:52:04

Georgia reminds me of all the nasty girls in my old school who bullied everyone who they deemed beneath them (including me).

I love he green of the prefects tops, they should change the full school to that colour.

blueemerald Thu 12-Sep-13 21:52:16

Especially women?! Ha, Georgia could take him in an out and out fight! She's twice his size!

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 12-Sep-13 21:52:45

Aw this is heartbreaking

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 12-Sep-13 21:52:50

In a few years jack would be an abuser not a.schoolboy people feel.sorry for. There is real hope.for him though. He hs potential.

Georgia shouldn't go to prom. And needs taken down a good few pegs before its too late to help her.

YoureBeingADick Thu 12-Sep-13 21:53:34

ooh that Georgia one! sh ethinks mr M is scared of her mum!!

AcrylicPlexiglass Thu 12-Sep-13 21:53:48

I like Brandon.

Tabby1963 Thu 12-Sep-13 21:53:51

Jac's friends are awesome smile

Sparklingbrook Thu 12-Sep-13 21:53:53

Bailey shaved all his eyebrows off for him Dick. grin

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 12-Sep-13 21:53:56

I have been bullied and have empathy with jack. .but he needs to learn he cant attack peopl..for his own good.

blueemerald Thu 12-Sep-13 21:55:14

An abuser?! That is absolutely ridiculous. He is clearly being bullied by Georgia and others. It isn't right to lash out at anyone, male or female, but he is provoked. I'd bet on Georgia spending more of her life attacking people than Jack.

MrsSJG Thu 12-Sep-13 21:55:40

Jac is my dd1, she suffered exactly the same as him. I can't help but feel sorry for him sad sad

hotair Thu 12-Sep-13 21:56:28

I agree that jack needs to learn to manage his anger and I thought the anger management course was a good idea, but letting the bullies run amok is not an answer

YoureBeingADick Thu 12-Sep-13 21:56:29

grin sparkling!

aww jac friends are great- I would have loved friend like that. I was like jac and they knew I would react. my ds is the same and it really worries me that the bullies will target him when he is older.

GibberTheMonkey Thu 12-Sep-13 21:57:19

Why is it ' I'm sorry I can't let you go to the prom' why isn't it''You are not going to the prom'?

Mumzy Thu 12-Sep-13 21:58:26

Poor Jack he so socially awkward Maybe if the school took a firmer line with the bullies he would feel justice has been done and not feel the need to lash out

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 12-Sep-13 21:58:40

Not an abuser. But if he was provoked by a woman and hit her when he was 25 he would be viewed as one IYSWIm
I have a lot of time.for him.
He is learning well..I just didn't express myself properly. I totally agree with the head teacher. .if that explains my POV better.

YoureBeingADick Thu 12-Sep-13 21:59:36

I agree gibber

I don't think jac is socially awkward at all! he's just not loud and aggressive like the people bullying him.

YoureBeingADick Thu 12-Sep-13 22:01:33

fanjo if georgia continues her behaviour into adulthood I would consider her abusive aswell. she is goady and manipulative. maybe she doesn't physically hurt anyone but she does hurt them by provoking certain reactions.

YoureBeingADick Thu 12-Sep-13 22:02:50

oh no!! they're not going to pick on boys next week are they? I hate that! how bloody disappointing.

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 12-Sep-13 22:03:32

Oh I last post made my point clearer.

Georgia needs a boot up arse
.for her own good

blueemerald Thu 12-Sep-13 22:03:58

But if a woman is being abused by her partner (which includes verbal abuse) on a regular/daily basis and lashes out at him most people would have some sympathy with her. Why is it different because a boy is being abused by a girl and lashes out?

Get rid of bullies and these children will have no reason to lash out.

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 12-Sep-13 22:07:14

I don't think people do think that way though

Although of course they make a very good point

Kernowgal Thu 12-Sep-13 22:11:33

That was quite tough viewing in a way - horrid reminder of being bullied at school. I felt that Jac-Henry was treated unfairly but I suppose part of growing up is realising that life isn't fair and that he needs to learn to control himself. What a great bunch of mates though.

I think Georgia's problem is she's been brought up to believe that nothing is her fault, it's always someone else's, and therefore she hasn't made the connection that her behaviour has consequences. Shame, because with 13 GCSEs she's obviously bright!

She might not have got good grades though - she can say she has 13 gcses even with all grade g

FanjoForTheMammaries Thu 12-Sep-13 22:14:25

Seems school are having to adopt the parent role if the parents fall short. .a scary responsibility

YoureBeingADick Thu 12-Sep-13 22:16:47

I think Georgia's problem is that she has a big ego and thinks she's funny/clever/pretty/popular/wily enough to get away with her behaviour.

she reminded me very much of two teens I know (one very well) and there is this overwhelming sense of ego BUT- they need their cheerleaders to reinforce the 'Georgia is awesome' (one of her friends actually said something like that tonight) stuff both to others and to her. without their friends doing that very regularly they fall apart- it's actually a sign of a massive insecurity.

YoureBeingADick Thu 12-Sep-13 22:18:35

Georgia clearly believes her mum is part of her cheerleading squad and will back her no matter what against the school (ive seen that too with the teens I know) she phoned her mum straight away both times she was in trouble.

prettybird Thu 12-Sep-13 22:24:41

That was a bit close to home as ds (Y8) came home tonight in tears complaining about being bullied. Apparently started a week ago with him being sent to Coventry by a former friend and it escalated into physicality today with some hidden shenanigans at rugby sad. He had a egg-sized lump on his head (which has now gone down but is still tender).

To give ds his due, he'd raised it last week with his pastoral care teacher (and not told us "because it was just not talking " hmm) and is adamant he is going to see not just his pastoral care teacher but also the Head of Year tomorrow - and is going to take a friend along as a witness (this boy is friends with both of them). Doesn't want us involved at this stage.

It'll be interesting to see how the school deals with it compared to "Educating Yorkshire". hmm

Suzieismyname Thu 12-Sep-13 22:27:13

When it said Georgia got 13 GCSEs, that would have meant A* -F wouldn't it?

Nerfmother Thu 12-Sep-13 22:27:50

Actually he can change his mind re exclusions - head can do this between the decision and the governors meeting (if held) - pedantic

SuffolkNWhat Thu 12-Sep-13 22:30:57

Yes GCSEs would be between A*-G, I think more of it wod have been made if she'd got 13 A*-C

mumofthemonsters808 Thu 12-Sep-13 22:34:09

Uncomfortable viewing tonight, I felt very sorry for Jac Henry. I may be being unrealistic but I don't think any kid should have to cope with goading and provocation, he should be enjoying these years not constantly defending himself. I question what I would tell my boy to do in that situation, what is the solution ?, the school advocate finding a member of staff, but are staff on standby on all occasions to witness this behaviour?. How many years do you put up with something before you finally snap ?.He just seemed such a decent lad who did not want to lash out but could not stand it any longer.

Glad the Head did not back down over the prom.

There seems to be a major problem with the width of the school's corridors, far too much traffic.

YoureBeingADick Thu 12-Sep-13 22:34:38

how do they have time to do 13 GCSE? I did 9 and found that tough going- (well the week before exams was anyway grin)

I think Georgia came across as a nasty little cow. Problem is she's got her little fan club who seem to be totally in awe of her, I'd imagine this was due to her manipulative dominating personality.

Some of her comments abut the so called geeky kids were really spiteful. I think she hasn't come up against someone capable of taking her down a peg or two. I would lay blame at her parents door as I don't think that having only one of 5 sisters who has managed to avoid expulsion is just a coincidence, especially when the mother is clearly involved with what is going on at the school.

I really didn't like the stereotyping by teachers/programme about 'loud' or 'quiet/geeky' kids. Of my 5 DC, 4 are massive extroverts, they do well in school and don't bully. My quietest DC is actually the one who has issues at school because he's always daydreaming. I hate the all too easy vilification of anyone who's a bit gobby but otherwise nice, loud doesn't have to equal some intimidating thuggish yob.

Quangle Thu 12-Sep-13 22:35:46

Jac's not socially awkward. He seems fab and at ease with who he is. Needs to manage himself but he's doing that a whole lot better than Georgia who has a monstrous ego. We all knew people like that at school - she obviously thinks she's cute and funny. She's not going to get away with it in the world outside school and that's why they have to help her wind herself in.

YoureBeingADick Thu 12-Sep-13 22:39:44

I agree- jac seemed very self aware for a boy of his age.

member Thu 12-Sep-13 22:46:13

Watched this for the first time- think the school was very brave letting the cameras in to do a whole series.

Get the impression Georgia's mother doesn't do her any favours by being ready to take Georgia's version of events as gospel & threatening to complain to the LEA. With her older sisters being excluded in the past, the family obviously have the belief the school has a vendetta against them rather than any fault lying with them. So glad she didn't get to go to the prom, wish she'd had some punishment for the altercation with Jac though.

Totally gobsmacked she got 13 Gcses since she came across as pig ignorant!

YoureBeingADick Thu 12-Sep-13 22:48:47

yes Georgia actually said the school were targeting her!

Quangle Thu 12-Sep-13 22:52:36

I actually love Jac. Just watching his behaviour now (am on ch4+1) where he insists he should take his punishment. He is cool.

campion Thu 12-Sep-13 23:21:22

What a thoroughly depressing episode. Jac gets punished and stigmatised for being bullied and Georgia gets a few chats with the head (who seems a little in awe of her), has more than a few issues with honesty and knows that a loud mouth can trump a decent discussion.

Thank goodness Jac is out of there now and hopefully is finding college more agreeable.Best of luck to Georgia's Health and Beauty teacher wink

Darkesteyes Thu 12-Sep-13 23:22:54

Agree campion Just catching this on 47

Jac has experienced bullying and then classic victim blaming.

Darkesteyes Thu 12-Sep-13 23:53:00

Jac lashed out because he was being bullied Why doesnt the school sort the ones who are responsible for the provocation out. And as for saying "if you let someone wind you up in society the police will be called."

Well we all know about the history of victim blaming culture that runs through some of these institutions.

Darkesteyes Thu 12-Sep-13 23:56:20

I love Jacs friend....the boy in the green jumper.

YoureBeingADick Thu 12-Sep-13 23:56:45

I think he said something like "if you punch someone" as opposed to "if you let someone wind you up"

which is quite fair really- if you punch someone it is very likely the police will be called.

Darkesteyes Thu 12-Sep-13 23:57:33

"I cant isolate bullying"

He seems to have no problem isolating uniform infractions.

campion Fri 13-Sep-13 00:15:43

It's always easier to obsess about a kid's tie than to start unpicking the reasons why a situation such as Jac's has arisen.

Darkesteyes Fri 13-Sep-13 01:37:04

YY Campion.

gymboywalton Fri 13-Sep-13 08:22:23

i watched this open mouthed last night
i thought the scholl handled the whole thing badly

i think the head teacher is too matey matey and he obiously doesn't have the ear of his senior leadership team.

wordfactory Fri 13-Sep-13 08:28:16

Last week, I had serious misgiving about how the HT handled Kamrrem. I thought his determination to ensure pupils like this finished their education, was at the expense of other students.

Now, I'm convinced of it.

The bullying of Jac-Henry was clearly and ongoing issue. And no matter how many times the HT said they were taking it seriously it absolutely was not being dealt with. And how could it be when the HT was so committed to pupils like G and K? In the end J-H took matters into is own hands. His friends saw this as having no choice in the matter...

gymboywalton Fri 13-Sep-13 08:30:36

yes-i know we only saw edited highlights but making jack do anger management but not making georgia do anything about her bullying? excluding her 6 times? chance after chance after chance??????

jennycoast Fri 13-Sep-13 09:20:07

I found it terribly sad that Jac though that Georgia's popularity was more important than his. She obviously has a tight group of friends, but his friendship group was awesome. What a cracking bunch of kids.

bigTillyMint Fri 13-Sep-13 09:22:53

Absolutely, jennysmile

i felt that whilst jac clearly did need support with managing his anger, Georgia should have had some sort of consequence. It did feel unfair that he was being punished whilst she got away scot-free.

My DC love the HT. He is a total contrast to their HT.

OctopusPete8 Fri 13-Sep-13 12:29:34

Jacs prefect friend was a good lad, and a good friend.

He didn't just simper in awe of him like georgia'a mates did, they actually were practical and helpful.

I think the boy/girl thing blurs the issue too much. He obviously gets on okay with normal girls, Georgia was just so spoilt,U have a rela. very similar,and was v. shocked to hear how only one out of five kids made it through, her parents must be so proud.

Vivacia Fri 13-Sep-13 20:17:24

i thought the scholl handled the whole thing badly

What would your solution be to children such as Georgia and Kamren(sp?) from the first episode?

Genuine question as I don't think there's any easy answer.

nennypops Fri 13-Sep-13 20:43:19

I like the attitude of any school which is determined to work with difficult kids rather than to chuck them out when the going gets tough. We're actually one of the few countries in the world that uses school exclusion - teachers elsewhere seem to manage without, and it would be interesting to know how.

forehead Fri 13-Sep-13 21:03:56

It's easy for us to sit behind our computers and judge the headteacher.
One has to remember that schools are under pressure not to exclude students like Georgia . The students are aware of this and therefore do what the hell they want.
I have friends who are teachers and they have told me that there are certain students who do not respond to teachers who are too strict and therefore i can understand to an extent why the HT comes across as almost pandering to the whims of Georgia. My main problem with the HT, was the fact that he appeared to be punishing Jac , in an attempt to prove that he was in control. However, he allowed Georgia to get away with some truly awful behaviour. I thought that this was unfair.
The problem with Georgia, is that she has this sense of entitlement, which is probably due to the fact that she has not been brought up properly .
I actually pity Georgia, because i can see the direction in which her life is going .

noblegiraffe Fri 13-Sep-13 21:44:54

Jac responded well to the tactic taken with him - he needed the anger management course and it seemed it make an impact.

When the HT was dealing with Georgia, the tactic taken with her ("sorry, I can't let you go to the prom") also worked well. She was punished in a way that truly mattered to her, and that punishment was delivered in a way that didn't provoke a worse event. If she had lashed out at the HT, well, what then?

FrillyMilly Fri 13-Sep-13 22:22:18

I'm intrigued as to what makes people like Georgia become the way they are. I wonder if her mum and sisters are bullies too given the way she was speaking about them. I remember girls like her at school though, this has got me wondering about what they are like now.

I did feel sorry for Jac and at least he is getting some help to control his anger.

I think the only way the school an deal with it is to isolate the bullies from their friends which is what they seem to be doing.

INeedThatForkOff Tue 17-Sep-13 21:57:24

I'm a teacher and cannot bear the apologist approach to dealing with atrociously behaved bullies. Apart from the fact that Georgia - appallingly - got away with goading Jac-Henry, she told a teacher to fuck off and was then 'reasoned' with. It should have been at that point at the very latest that she should have been isolated and told she was not going to the prom.

I would be mortified if it were my daughter sitting next to Georgia, brown-nosing and being influenced by her.

Jac-Henry took his patronising punishment well but frankly he deserved far better support than the guff he got. Poor kid.

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 19-Sep-13 21:14:26

Missed the beginning, is Tom ADHD?

bananananacoconuts Thu 19-Sep-13 21:18:06

Don't think it's been mentioned DameEdna but i can certainly see traits in both the boys featured tonight.

wineoclocktimeyet Thu 19-Sep-13 21:18:24

They didn't say so - its really making me cross already

ggirl Thu 19-Sep-13 21:19:01

feeling sorry for the poor kids sitting next to Robbie and Tom

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 19-Sep-13 21:22:06

God she's harsh

Sparklingbrook Thu 19-Sep-13 21:22:30


YoureBeingADick Thu 19-Sep-13 21:23:04

why is tom in school if his step brother just died!!? recipe for disaster!

everlong Thu 19-Sep-13 21:23:18

Poor lad sad

bananananacoconuts Thu 19-Sep-13 21:24:20

I see my ds (7) in those boys. Especially the inappropriate noises, and he has just been referred for adhd and asd testing. I must say though that i have done all the work myself, school were totally crap.

WetAugust Thu 19-Sep-13 21:26:05

School corridors are far too narrow - bad deisgn.

Poor teacher - what an unfortunate surname 'Uren'

Nobody is thinking Tourettes / ADHD / ADD? Especially in the case of the younger boy.

Sparklingbrook Thu 19-Sep-13 21:27:35

I was wondering about Mrs Urine. blush

coffeewineandchocolate Thu 19-Sep-13 21:28:01

Def thinking ADHD on relation to Robbie-jo

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 19-Sep-13 21:29:13

Some students prefer to be at school than at home

YoureBeingADick Thu 19-Sep-13 21:29:29

one of my clients is called uren. based on her first name (my client's) I think it's Austrian/german maybe (think sound of music wink)

bananananacoconuts Thu 19-Sep-13 21:29:33

I'm 2 minutes behind. Poor, poor Tom.

paperclipsarebetterthanstaples Thu 19-Sep-13 21:31:10

Some students prefer the normality of school when something awful happens at home. One of mine lost his Dad in the middle of the night. He was in class at 9am... he felt in the way at home and needed the support of his peers.

YoureBeingADick Thu 19-Sep-13 21:32:14

what is that teacher doing asking tom to recount his brother's death?? shock

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 19-Sep-13 21:33:59

Agree paperclips but some prefer school to the dire home life they have. I worked in FE and we have students with 100% attendance and who come in on their days off because college is where they feel safe. So sad

bananananacoconuts Thu 19-Sep-13 21:34:05

Is she the anger management teacher?

Nerfmother Thu 19-Sep-13 21:37:59

It's an episode in his life that's finished. What a knobber. Dd is here going why donut hate the head so much?

YoureBeingADick Thu 19-Sep-13 21:39:48

no she is head of year 7. anger counsellor is younger with long hair.

dame that is realy sad. poor kids. sad

paperclipsarebetterthanstaples Thu 19-Sep-13 21:41:08

I'm in FE too Dame. It's very sad - same kids in breakfast club, staying for computer club etc so they don't have to go home...

ggirl Thu 19-Sep-13 21:42:11

I would be a such a shit shouty screamy teacher and have absolutely no patience with those 2 boys

Sparklingbrook Thu 19-Sep-13 21:43:10

I want to give Robbie a big hug.

Helpyourself Thu 19-Sep-13 21:43:30

Was it the anger management teacher?
That was appalling questioning. shock

ggirl Thu 19-Sep-13 21:46:33

was just thinking the same as head of year

YoureBeingADick Thu 19-Sep-13 21:47:43

I do agree aswell GGirl- he very obviously played the 'he's the only one who understands me' card to get outside and then just went anyway.

DigestivesAndPhiladelphia Thu 19-Sep-13 21:47:51

Why is the head pandering so much to one boy, when it is at the expense of the other pupils & his staff? He's grieving but he still needs boundaries,surely?

ggirl Thu 19-Sep-13 21:49:06

Sorry but Tom loves all the attention

bananananacoconuts Thu 19-Sep-13 21:50:14

Help yourself. Why was it an appalling question? Apologies if you did not read it the way it was intended but i asked was it the anger management teacher in response to another poster saying that she couldn't believe a teacher was asking a child to recount his step brothers death.

Is it now an appalling question? Please do tell me why if it is.

WetAugust Thu 19-Sep-13 21:51:08

Couldn't they have called in the Educational Psychologist to advise? Or put Tom in touch with a young person's bereavement councillor?

School seemed very keen to keep this 'in school' when outside agencies could probably have provided better support.

YoureBeingADick Thu 19-Sep-13 21:52:01

I think she meant the teacher was asking an appalling question. not you bananas smile

Poor boy
however,I can see what the head of year is saying. When my friend died (we were around the same age as Tom) many in our year used it as an excuse to bunk off.
Even those closer to her over egged it iyswim - it does give a certain 'free pass' to do what you want because everyone's so desperate not to offend/upset anyone. It's a hard time to loose someone because you're not entirely in control of showing your emotional reactions either.
Difficult situation for the teachers.

Nerfmother Thu 19-Sep-13 21:52:56

Compassionate leave? Unofficial exclusion actually sir

racmun Thu 19-Sep-13 21:53:03

I feel sorry for those 2 boys who clearly have issues but also the rest of the children in their classes. How much time do the teachers spend just trying to get them to behave before they even start teaching the others.

Can't help thinking that they both like the attention

YoureBeingADick Thu 19-Sep-13 21:53:14

wetaugust- he could well be in contact with outside agencies but the school/CH4 don't have permission to disclose that information?

DigestivesAndPhiladelphia Thu 19-Sep-13 21:53:17

That head teacher has some serious ego issues. He's trying so hard to be matey and bit wanting to "fail" kids like Tom but he actually failing the other kids in the school - the ones who do behave properly and work within the rules. Tom is manipulative and I don't think he respects any of then, including the English teacher who believes she has some kind of special relationship with him.

bananananacoconuts Thu 19-Sep-13 21:53:21

Just reread the post. Sorry help yourself! Haven't had my bath yet so am still not relaxed! Thanks youarebeingadick!

Nerfmother Thu 19-Sep-13 21:54:21

That head is so rubbish.

Helpyourself Thu 19-Sep-13 21:55:40

banana questioning Tom was appalling, not your question! wink

Helpyourself Thu 19-Sep-13 21:57:42

x posts grin

ggirl Thu 19-Sep-13 21:58:43

<<Old fuddy duddy comment alert>>

teachers being like friends to the kids rather than teachers/authority figures

wasn't like that in my days ...arf

YoureBeingADick Thu 19-Sep-13 21:58:43

awwwww!!! "she just likes me. I don't know why" sad he is lovable tbh. annoying but lovable. grin

WetAugust Thu 19-Sep-13 21:59:30

I look at Robbie-Joe and see a very immature young boy who has failed to make the big leap from junior to secondary school. He doesn't strike me as being fundamentally 'bad' or deliberately wilful - more confused and uncertain of how to behave.

paperclipsarebetterthanstaples Thu 19-Sep-13 22:04:40

Digestives - we're seeing a snapshot of the year. The 'good' kids obviously are pushed - their exam results have gone up. However good kids doing their work wouldn't make good telly.

Sparklingbrook Thu 19-Sep-13 22:08:46

That's how it appears to me Wet, he seems so young and confused by Secondary School.

It's interesting because they go to Secondary in Year 8 round here so I don't see the 11 year olds, and they seem young.

DigestivesAndPhiladelphia Thu 19-Sep-13 22:09:03

Fair point paperclips - it was just a snapshot focused mainly on one boy. I just found the heads softly-softly approach hard to tolerate. It seemed like Tom was the one in charge & I think that having a pupil like that in a classroom creates a slightly intimidating environment for the quieter, well-behaved children.

YoureBeingADick Thu 19-Sep-13 22:19:53

he definitely was intimidating in the corridor when he was asking that girl what she was looking at and if she knew his name.

I agree- Mr M is getting on my wick with the 'i'm your mate, i'll not send you home this time" translation "i'll give you chance after chance because I don't actually know how best to deal with you for your own good aswell as the school's own good."

paperclipsarebetterthanstaples Thu 19-Sep-13 22:27:50

But how should we deal with them You're?? It's simply impossible sometimes. There are no sanctions or punishments available. I've been told to fuck off twice so far this week. Once for reminding a student that he couldn't bring a can of energy drink into class and once for asking someone to go back out, knock and wait after she turned up 20 minutes late and just walked in. I'm considered to be one of the more 'in control' members of staff so I guess I'm lucky it was just twice...

Amaxapax Thu 19-Sep-13 22:29:38

For all of you who don't like 'matey' teachers:

I'm known as a strict teacher who has high expectations for her pupils, but I am also friendly, jokey and do my best to be fair. My pupils have target grades, and it's my responsibility to help them get those grades. If they don't, I have to provide evidence that I did everything possible - phone calls home, revision sessions, contact with their mentor, etc. - to help them. If a gentle, friendly approach means the situation doesn't escalate and they stay in the classroom and make some progress, then that's a small success vital to achieving a bigger one. My kids work hard for me. I know they do because they tell me so, and because I see their results.

DigestivesAndPhiladelphia Thu 19-Sep-13 22:32:39

Paperclips - can you refuse to teach a student who tells you fuck off? shock

I was considering a PGCE & am now having second thoughts...

Hassled Thu 19-Sep-13 22:34:10

Why they didn't call in a bereavement counsellor for Tom on Day 1 beats the hell out of me. They handled it so badly - the kid wanted space, and was being hounded with "Are you alright?". And then he reacted and they were out of their depth - they should have got people who wouldn't be out of their depth in from the start.

YoureBeingADick Thu 19-Sep-13 22:35:46

" once for asking someone to go back out, knock and wait after she turned up 20 minutes late and just walked in."

well that was asking for a rude response if you ask me! little power trip? not saying the pupil should have gotten away with the swearing but I can understand why they said it when told to do that! ridiculous. asking them to wait until you speak to them about lateness is fine. telling them to go back out and knock when they're already in the room? sure fire way to increase the resentment between you and a pupil.

Amaxapax Thu 19-Sep-13 22:36:08

Digestives, I've heard of people doing this, but I'm never quite sure how they think it will work out. Who would teach that pupil? They can't just be shuttled off to someone else. It also gives the impression that you have to get someone else to deal with the problem because you lack the strength and authority.

At my school, a pupil who swears at a member of staff would be excluded for a day. He or she would then come back to my lesson and we'd get on with things.

paperclipsarebetterthanstaples Thu 19-Sep-13 22:37:49

Not where i work Digestive. Out management team aren't supportive and it's all about retention and achievement. I'm sure not everywhere is as bad though.

paperclipsarebetterthanstaples Thu 19-Sep-13 22:42:31

Really You're? I have high standards and I'm desperately trying to cling onto them. If a student is late then they need to knock on my door and wait. Why should they be able to barge in, interrupt the lesson and not be challenged? They may have a personal reason for being late which they'd rather tell me quietly at the door than in front of the class.

YoureBeingADick Thu 19-Sep-13 22:48:00

yes they should knock before coming in and interrupting a class. but if they have already come in and you want to speak to them about being late then you ask them to wait either outside the door or at the door inside- it is inflaming a possibly confrontational situation by asking them to go back out and knock when it serves no purpose as the lesson has already been disrupted. it is a pointless order and only serves to antagonise because the pupil knows it is pointless. it's not like asking them to go back and shut a door they've left open IYSWIM. when you talk to them outside/at the door you tell them at that point that they must knock in future when they are late.

paperclipsarebetterthanstaples Thu 19-Sep-13 22:58:50

I see where you're coming from but if the rule is knock and wait then that's the rule. I work with young people and they need consistency. I have very few 'rules' but the few i have are for a reason. If they just walk in when I'm busy then they don't get added to the register... Which means they're not accounted for.
Again - that's a snippet. The student in question has been late several times, has been moved classes for bullying and has threatened to slash the tyres on aother member of staff's car. Telling her she needs to knock next time will have little impact unfortunately.

OttilieKnackered Thu 19-Sep-13 23:07:04

Totally agree paper clips. We have the same rule. If the kid is arrogant enough to think the rule doesn't apply to them then I don't see what harm a little hoop jumping would do.

Especially as it's highly likely to be someone who is frequently late and frequently disruptive.

LizzyDay Thu 19-Sep-13 23:08:24

It looks to me like there's a big gap in the professional care somewhere - the two boys this week clearly have additional needs (not that I'm diagnosing them, just that they are behaving in a way that is different to and more challenging than the other pupils).

It's not fair to them, the other pupils, and the teachers that so much resource is taken up with dealing with them, and that the care still appears to be inadequate.

paperclipsarebetterthanstaples Thu 19-Sep-13 23:10:25

Thanks Otillie - i was actually in the middle of dishing out some much needed public praise to one of the students who, after a ropey start, has really pulled his socks up. No way was i interrupting that!

YoureBeingADick Thu 19-Sep-13 23:10:55

I agree consistency is vital and also you know your pupils better than I do so know what will work and what wont. I do think it's a case of pick your battles though and if the pupil has the attitude you describe then telling them to knock is inviting an aggressive response. you could say it is sort of setting her up for a fail. whereas simply asking her to wait til you speak with her has a point. she has already disrupted the class- so whether she just waits, or waits and knocks you still have that same level of disruption but asking her to knock adds that swearing incident that you presumably have to bollock her for and record, increases tension and resentment between you both that could have been avoided.

LizzyDay Thu 19-Sep-13 23:12:08

And it's not that some of those teachers aren't lovely and doing their best, they clearly are.

paperclipsarebetterthanstaples Thu 19-Sep-13 23:16:10

I don't want to pick my battles. I want them to follow a simple rule. It's not a huge expectation. It's manners - if i go to another classroom i knock and wait. If i bend the rule for 1 entitled student then i have to bend it for everyone.

Darkesteyes Thu 19-Sep-13 23:25:24

Just catching this on 47 Its heartbreaking.

YoureBeingADick Thu 19-Sep-13 23:28:11

" if i go to another classroom i knock and wait."

and if you forgot once, would you be happy for another teacher to tell you to go back outside and knock and wait for an answer? or would you be mortified, think it ridiculous and wonder why they couldn't have just said "could you wait outside please pears and i'll be out to talk with you in a minute"

YoureBeingADick Thu 19-Sep-13 23:30:08

not pears! paperclips. I don't know where pears came from confused

paperclipsarebetterthanstaples Thu 19-Sep-13 23:35:08

I wouldn't forget. I was trained whilst at school and college to knock and wait. I don't understand why you're making such a big deal out of it. It's a very easy rule. She didn't forget - she chose to ignore it.

Today i have battled to get a dyslexia assessment, reported a possible child protection case (and written the accompanying report), caught up with a social worker about one of our looked after children and rang 3 parents to discuss behaviour issues. I have also taught. I haven't got the time or the headspace to bicker with s student over a simple rule.

YoureBeingADick Thu 19-Sep-13 23:53:14

"I haven't got the time or the headspace to bicker with s student over a simple rule."

yet you chose to when you didn't have to.

paperclipsarebetterthanstaples Thu 19-Sep-13 23:57:51

We should agree to disagree You're. I have simple rules in my classroom. You negotiate rules in yours... different strokes etc...

Great thread until somebody starts playing 'i'm a better teacher.' Can we stick to discussing the programme. Yes I'm sure some of you are far too busy with more important issues than asking students to knock before entering. Well done. Now can we discuss the programme again.

pixiepotter Fri 20-Sep-13 07:47:46

the two boys this week clearly have additional needs
Hmmm but they could control it when they wanted to.You don't have a special need on a MOnday and Tuesday and then not on a Wednesday and Thursday and then back again on friday!!
Too many SN labels,rather than addressing bad parenting, unstable homelife and weak teachers.

pixiepotter Fri 20-Sep-13 07:49:45

Also I was appalled at the Tom story.Offering upth grief of a child for public entertainment.

ImATotJeSuisUneTot Fri 20-Sep-13 07:57:00

I work in a PRU - those two boys would be eaten alive by my students.

Preciousbane Fri 20-Sep-13 07:57:18

This sounds terrible but the day my abusive stepfather died was and is still one of the happiest in my life. I agree some dc would rather be at school.

pixiepotter Fri 20-Sep-13 08:03:20

The teachers try to be their best friends.It doesn't work

ImATotJeSuisUneTot Fri 20-Sep-13 08:03:58

Also, I've had students in school after a death because they really have nowhere else to go - mum wouldn't have them at home. I've sat on the floor with students while they sobbed in my arms.

It's a really difficult situation because school isn't set up to deal with it and we're not all trained bereavement counsellors.

bigTillyMint Fri 20-Sep-13 08:11:22

ImAToT, I work in a Primary Behaviour Unit and the sweet Y7 boy would be eaten alive by the Y5 and 6'sgrin They are NOT PRU material.

And I agree, ImATot, it seemed to me that the HT was trying his best to keep the older boy in school because he was worried that it would be worse for him at home.

LizzyDay Fri 20-Sep-13 08:23:01

"You don't have a special need on a MOnday and Tuesday and then not on a Wednesday and Thursday and then back again on friday!! "

Why not? People (including children) hold it together better on some days than others.

buss Fri 20-Sep-13 08:30:32

Absolutely agree with Lizzy

There are many factors (depending on how a child is affected and any co-morbid conditions) which can make it more difficult for a child to control their difficulties day to day.

buss Fri 20-Sep-13 08:32:05

Teachers who work in a PRU - what did you think about the Head threatening Tom with being sent to a PRU as a sanction?

prettybird Fri 20-Sep-13 08:45:30

Ds (13) watches this with me and makes surprisingly astute comments.

It's made him particularly appreciative of the environment at his own school and the efforts of his teachers. It's a school with a high proportion of FSMs and EAL covering a very wide demographic, yet doesn't seem to have the chaos seen at the EY school.

It's also helped him understand why there is a one way system in the corridors! grin

measuringcup Fri 20-Sep-13 11:00:31

My children were all very close to greatgrand when he died and all decided to go to school the next day, one of mine has sn so routine is very important. I spoke to head for his opinion before dropping them off and he too thought it better they be in school.

They were younger though. I also know two boys in dc class who lost a dad and brother unexpectedly (two different families) both were in school with heads support next day.

measuringcup Fri 20-Sep-13 11:08:42

I didn't really see sn with Robbie, I saw a kid who was bright and probably been a bit bored at primary school towards the end and they had simply 'lost him' , i had this with one of mine and its hard to get them back again, so to me with him he would have been a case of challenging him and getting him interested again.

paperclipsarebetterthanstaples Fri 20-Sep-13 11:15:47

I agree measuring - he was a sweetie, def wouldn't label him sn... He just seemed to struggle with how to act really. I'd guess at older siblings who he's maybe copying? He was lovely with his friend on crutches and seemed to want to be 'good' but was also looking to brag a bit in the corridor when he'd been in trouble. He's just a bit lost - and still just baby in year 7, loads of time to turn it around hopefully :-)

measuringcup Fri 20-Sep-13 11:24:42

Education blighted" by cameron and the other "Horrible" bottom 20% of kids who should be Educated in Secure schools giving the mainstream 50% a shot at a proper Education

Way to bundle the bottom 20% as horrible disruptive kids!
My dd has additional needs, would be in bottom 2% on paper but has a very high IQ . Her sen means she struggles to get it from head to paper.

She is not horrible or disruptive in anyway thankyou very much. Intact she's one of best behaved in her class and last school year was made hell by a Kamrren who was top of class.

Bright does not equal well behaved.

measuringcup Fri 20-Sep-13 11:30:31

Hassled school has said somewhere (might of been twitter) that a counsellor was available to Tom but not everyone wanted to appear on film.

TwllBach Fri 20-Sep-13 12:53:53

I'm just catching up now and I agree that Robbie Jo just seems very young. I work in primary and I see a lot of little boys like him that just aren't ready to Go Up - whether that's to the next year or to secondary school.

I think the teachers there are doing a good job with what they've got. I don't mind the matey matey approach, I think it is in line with the expectations people have of teachers these days, in that we are expected to treat each child as an individual and think about their individual needs.

I think that it is also a good thing that a male figure in authority is happy to be seen as approachable and friendly and happy to talk abotu feelings etc without relying on authority and shouting and being, basically, a hardarse.

I have to say, I have cried a bit watching this episode. So many children with such difficult lives and such hard jobs these teachers are doing.

TwllBach Fri 20-Sep-13 12:57:12

...although I have just heard her say that she would sort Robbie Jo out with some chocolate if he can just behave. That made me laugh and disapprove all in one go grin

She is obviously fond of him though.

My heart is breaking for Tom because he's just on a road to nowhere and no one is going to be able to help him but himself sad

chocoluvva Fri 20-Sep-13 13:48:14

Twll did you maybe miss the very end of the programme? Tom was being praised by his English teacher for working hard. He told her he has decided to apply himself and get some qualifications.

TwllBach Fri 20-Sep-13 13:52:13

[shame face] I posted before the programme ended. But I cried again then anyway grin

chocoluvva Fri 20-Sep-13 14:26:02

I was surprised. I really hope he manages to keep it up. I was impressed with the way his teacher very matter of factly made the comment that being angry and challenging wouldn't bring his brother back. Very supportive without being too intense or off-puttingly earnest IMO.

Do any of you feel a bit uncomfortable watching the children go through this on screen? I loved it to start with but then felt bad for the kids, the dramas of their lives played out in front of millions. I assume everyone gave their permission, but still it made me feel uneasy...

Helpyourself Mon 23-Sep-13 20:39:39

Extremely uncomfortable. By definition consent to participate in a programme like this isn't informed. I really question the motives of the staff.

I think the staff come over as very caring and dedicated, and seeing the children makes you realise what an amazing job they do, and the kids are amazing too in their way, but surely they should all be able to make ar$es of themselves in private, rather than on tv. I was a bit of a handful at school and am really pleased there isn't any proof of it on film anywhere!

Helpyourself Mon 23-Sep-13 21:55:38

I agree sarf except for that awful woman asking probing for the gory details.
And it's not caring or dedicated to expose the children in their care to the tv cameras.

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 26-Sep-13 20:20:34

Wonder what crises the students will have tonight?

I'm hooked on this program

Nubbin Thu 26-Sep-13 21:41:00

This is appalling as far as I can tell if you are bright in this school you are on your own. All the support is for the lowest common denominator.

SchrodingersFanny Thu 26-Sep-13 21:46:31

Nubbin, that is the reality of most secondary schools. Certainly the one I work in puts all the money and support into a very small number of students

It was the case when I was at school too - the naughtiest/low achieving kids got to go fishing, could earn points that took them to Thorpe park etc if they were good for a bit.

People that were generally good got no incentives/perks.

Nubbin Thu 26-Sep-13 21:51:29

That it what I struggle with - my daughter is 4 and I was privately educated which I don't agree with from an idealistic standpoint. She is about to attend a state primary which I have some misgivings about. If this school was my secondary there would be no doubt I would remortgage, homeschool, work the bursary system to ensure she didn't go there. Bullying isn't new to any education sector but the lack of support in this school is shocking.

catgirl1976 Thu 26-Sep-13 21:51:37

I'm just catching up on this and I am watching it with my mouth open

I honestly cannot believe this is a "normal" level of behaviour in schools. The disrespect is horrific, but clearly it is so endemic the staff have to work with what they have got. I feel very old and very out of touch but I am amazed so much has changed it the 20 years since I was at school

These children clearly don't know any differently and there are some lovely ones on there Just wow.

How common is this sort of level of behaviour?

soul2000 Thu 26-Sep-13 21:52:10

The poor girl her father is a barrister and yet he still sent her to this place.

This school can not help her achieve her potential,why did her high earning and academic family send her to thornhill ?

Nubbin the reason all the support is the lowest common denominator is
that for schools like Thornhill Cs are more important than academic pupils getting As.

pigletmania Thu 26-Sep-13 21:55:35

I agree soul, her father could afford to send her to private school, but what about Thse who can't!

soul2000 Thu 26-Sep-13 21:56:36

English teacher. "Il be Gutted for her". We can all be casual to are family
and friends but not when you are on view.

What kind of language is that from a english teacher trying to help a
student improve her english grade from e to c.

soul2000 Thu 26-Sep-13 21:58:37

What kind of language is that from an english teacher, who is trying to
help a struggling student.

catgirl1976 Thu 26-Sep-13 21:59:50

How can they spend any time teaching when they have to deal with this level of disruptive behaviour? confused

Nubbin Thu 26-Sep-13 22:01:14

People complain though that parents 'cream' their children off to certain schools or private/grammar etc and this program to me is the reason why - given the treatment of the boy in the previous program jaq? And then this I am not surprised why.

stripeyslippers Thu 26-Sep-13 22:02:55

I watched this tonight (first time I've ever seen this type of programme) in open-mouthed horror.

I knew I was lucky with my education. I didn't realise exactly how lucky.

I will do anything and everything in my power to keep my children out of schools like this. Just unbelievable.

Jefferson Thu 26-Sep-13 22:03:51

What disruptive behaviour? Didn't see much of that in this episode. Do you mean the chatting in class? That's seen as low level disruption and not a huge deal as long as you can get them to be quiet when you want them tio

catgirl1976 Thu 26-Sep-13 22:06:16

I'm only on episode 2 but so far I mean

Not following uniform code
Talking in class
Mobile phones in class
Disrespecting teaching staff

Are they just showing the worst bits in the early episodes and it gets better?

Jefferson Thu 26-Sep-13 22:06:27

I agree that high achieving brught kids are just sort of left to it. Not because teachers want to leave them to it but because we are under an appalling amount of pressure to ensure the C's. this year I will be running an after school session 1-2 times a week, will be coming in during half-term and doing Saturday mock exams. All designed to ensure the C

soul2000 Thu 26-Sep-13 22:07:13

The bright asian girl only achieved 8 A* to C grades .

That is appalling given her acadademic potential.

If she had been with similar academic pupils at a more appropriate
school i am sure she would have got all As and A* grades.

This has proved that Thornhill is incapable of educating very bright and
able pupils to their potential

Thornhill is a bog standard comprehensive school in a northen town
totally rubbish and only able to educate the mainstream 50%.

Nubbin Thu 26-Sep-13 22:08:04

I didn't mean the low level chatting as much as the blatant bullying of a girl who was new to the school and a little different.

Jefferson Thu 26-Sep-13 22:08:58

Ah ok catgirl

Yes that level of poor behaviour is unusual. I'm at an inner city London comp and we would never tolerate swearing in class or mobile phones. As soon as they're out they're confiscated. So it's not just a matter of this happens in state schools because it doesn't. It happens in badly managed schools

im sure 90% of the lessons are just boring, we only see the disruptive stuff as it makes good t.v.

rooobarbb Thu 26-Sep-13 22:09:54

Tonight's episode has really pissed me off; those girls were bullying the new girl and yet she was somehow blamed for it all, and accused of being 'oversensitive' and 'angry'.

umbrellahead Thu 26-Sep-13 22:10:44

Soul, she may have only been able to sit around 8 GCSEs if she moved schools part way though the course I imagine. For all we know the grades she got may all have been A/A*.

Jefferson Thu 26-Sep-13 22:11:29

Behaviour like that (the mean girls thing) is par for the course. It's just teenage girls being teenage girls. They can be horrible to each other one minute and best mates the next. Hormones! I see it happen time and time again.

I'm not talking about real bullying but this sort of silly fallout

Jefferson Thu 26-Sep-13 22:12:51

Hmmm. Reading that back It sounds like I'm minimising their behaviour. They were actually being horrible. The part where they all turned away whn she went upto them was bullying so I take back my sentence about it not being 'real' bullying. Apologies

catgirl1976 Thu 26-Sep-13 22:12:57

That is a bit of a relief Jefferson

I can't imagine the challenge of dealing with some of the issues, but ones like mobile phones seem so simple - confiscate! Which clearly a well managed school does and Thornhill doesn't.

I went to a private school and then a state school. The expected standards of behaviour were not any different at either of them tbh and each had problem pupils, bright pupils and normal teenage episodes, but swearing, blatant rudeness to staff, bullying etc would never have been tolerated in either

It's good to know those things are not the norm

rooobarbb Thu 26-Sep-13 22:13:24

It looked pretty nasty to me, Jefferson. And like bullying. Ganging up on the new girl, ignoring her, accusing her of things that she hadn't done.

Nubbin Thu 26-Sep-13 22:13:54

So how do you get comfortable with your own decisions for kids education - I was private 1996 12 a * followed by a levels and Oxford. I'd like to use state and support it but is this a true window to what it looks like? In which case it can only support the truly exceptional who rise above?

ravenAK Thu 26-Sep-13 22:16:11

I teach in a comprehensive school in a Northern town, & we seem to do rather well with the most able.

I would unhesitatingly send my own (very bright) dcs here, were we not out of catchment & were it not for the 'your mum's Mrs Raven' factor.

Our local private school: no, not so much. Their results aren't nearly as good once you look at value added.

Although I do have ex-colleagues who work there & reckon it's a very pleasant place to work...

Not caught EY tonight; I'll look forward to enjoying it with my tutor group on 4OD.

Jefferson Thu 26-Sep-13 22:17:41

Nubbin to be fair this is an entertainment show. They are not going to show an hour of kids learning and engaging in their lessons. No one wants to see that apparently. It's all about seeing the 'funny' gobby kids and fights in the corridors.

So no, this isn't what it's like

DameEdnasBridesmaid Thu 26-Sep-13 22:23:17

Disruptive behaviour? What the tipping over the table? That's the only thing I saw that could be distruptive and the teacher wasn't teaching at that point.

The other arguments were at lunchtime and nobody batted an eyelid.

It all looked normal secondary school stuff to me.

catgirl1976 Thu 26-Sep-13 22:28:42

I actually just thought there was a girl called "Toshiba"

It was written on a laptop behind her...not, as I assumed for a minute, text showing her name blush

Nubbin Thu 26-Sep-13 22:31:15

Really a girl so upset that she tips over a table is normal and no-one comforts her but rushes to the other group to see if there is a reason? I admit I have zero experience and trying to work out the schools near me but if I had come across not the behaviour but the attitude of the staff in what they deemed ok over the past few weeks in this program my answer would have been a point blank no to my daughter going there

catgirl1976 Thu 26-Sep-13 22:31:23

I'm just starting Episode 3

I have an overwhelming desire to hug Robbie-Joe sad

cerealqueen Thu 26-Sep-13 22:32:54

I watched this for the first time today. Surprised by the 'Head' who just seems to want to be everybody's friend and down with the kids.

motherstongue Thu 26-Sep-13 22:34:47

Funnily enough someone on the Harrow: a very British School thread was complaining that it was too dull as the kids and teachers were too nice!!!!
So maybe as Teenage tantrums says and nubbin, it is what the public wants to see. Bizarrely, I do want to see nice kids fully engaged with learning and nice teachers getting the opportunity to actually teach. Most of us parents don't get to see inside our kids classrooms, we don't know if this programme is representative of senior schools today or not, I suspect it falls somewhere between Harrow and educating Yorkshire or at least I hope it does.

Nubbin Thu 26-Sep-13 22:40:42

See I have the horrible suspicion that if he is down with the kids he can bring up from a d or e do a c is he is there but if you are looking at akid who is going to bring in an a or b anyway he has zero interest except for when they impinge on the others

Nubbin Thu 26-Sep-13 22:42:05

Horrific spelling sorry -autocorrect and d/e to a c as opposed to a clear a/b student

sassytheFIRST Thu 26-Sep-13 22:45:25

Disagree - tonight's episode showed him giving time and interest (and apparently not for the first time) to a bright student who was struggling socially. I loved how he sat her down, talked stuff through with her then gave her a book to read. "it's good that".

Nubbin Thu 26-Sep-13 22:48:54

Honestly she wasn't struggling she was being bullied and as far as I can see the support was for others 'we trust you not to continue etc.' however going to give up - dd only 4 and we live in london but on this program's efforts school fees budget going to get a nudge.

TheBuskersDog Thu 26-Sep-13 22:49:23

Thankfully having watched both I think my son's school is actually nearer to Harrow than Thornhill.

soul2000 Thu 26-Sep-13 22:53:36

The problem is that for schools like Thornhill the amount of A and B
grades are not valued and are no more important than C grades.

There are two reasons the first is because schools are ranked on the A-c
grade., The second is that the school as no 6th form so they have no need,
for any of their students to get A*Bs at Gcse because they are moved on

Therefore the only results that matter are Cs, if a student is borderline
A-B they are just left to their own devices. They pose no threat to
the school and its A-C targets.

sassytheFIRST Thu 26-Sep-13 22:54:10

Oh, I agree there was some bullying going on. Girls can be VILE.

catgirl1976 Thu 26-Sep-13 22:54:27

I've always assumed schools in London would be far worse.

Not sure why but I do and have refused several job offers on those grounds

(DS isn't 2 yet so I know it's a bit ridiculous but I worry we wouldn't move away before he started school)

motherstongue Thu 26-Sep-13 23:17:12

Catgirl, I would have thought being in London there would be a perception at least of more choice. I'm in Scotland, only truly comprehensive schools or Private schools here. If you live outwith the cities for the vast majority that means no Private schools so you are stuck with your local town's comp which can be dire but you cannot go outwith catchment without a placement request. Our local school is pretty dire but the one in the next town is fantastic but so over subscribed you would never get a place with a placement request. We could move, of course, but due to the reputation of the school the house prices coupled with availability make that very difficult.

According to twitter - Georgia from ep 2 is now expecting a baby. She'll have to grow up now!

StiffyByng Fri 27-Sep-13 00:13:02

London has some fantastic schools actually. We are doing the secondary rounds right now and we have a choice of some very different but good schools. Lots of excellent primaries with not enough places, but that's not unusual. My concern is about the creeping dominance of the wretched Harris production line academies, which leave me cold but are becoming a monopoly in some areas.

Painful watching tonight as it was all too familiar to a former tortured teen but I'm astonished how much attention is paid to their interpersonal relationships by staff. I can't decide whether I think it's a good or bad thing. And who IS that nosey woman with glasses who appears to sit in the corner of every teacher's office?

goodasitgets Fri 27-Sep-13 02:22:54

I've been to 2 nurseries/pre schools, 4 primaries and 3 secondary schools.
I went from a private girls school to a northern comprehensive. Lasted a year before ending up in a pupil referral unit due to being so badly bullied. After that I started at another northern comp in year 9. That school was incredible, I wouldn't even go in the school at first I was so terrified

My point is its not private v state, it's school v school. This programme is pretty low level compared to the first comp I went to, on the other hand we would have been hung up at the second school for any of that behaviour!
Looking back, if I had a choice, I would start again at year 7 at the second comp. After a year of bullying, a year out of school and having to learn new subjects I still got 11 A* - B gcses

But I agree it will be edited and show what is interesting entertainment rather than day to day mundane stuff

catgirl1976 Fri 27-Sep-13 07:58:38

I know London must have loads more choice and some really excellent schools

It's just my silly, unfounded provincial persons view of inner city life blush.

SchrodingersFanny Fri 27-Sep-13 11:21:54

I don't think he's trying to be cool. I think he's taking time to talk to kids who need someone to talk to. He did an excellent job of talking her down from saying "I'm going to punch them".

I'm often very honest with pupils, saying yes there are people I don't like working with, yes I do get angry etc. But this is how I deal with it.

They are only showing the dramatic bits, but I would sat it is very similar to my school. We do our best to stretch the able, but all the government pressure and our funding is dependent on the C grades.

chocoluvva Fri 27-Sep-13 12:04:49

His approach seemed to work.

Hadikia (spelling?) is now taking four A levels, presumably at a sixth-form college. Am I right to assume that the behaviour will be better there?

mrsshackleton Fri 27-Sep-13 14:09:19

If you google London schools there are all sorts of reports confirming they're now among best, if not the best in the UK.

It takes a long time for that perception to trickle through though

mrsshackleton Fri 27-Sep-13 14:15:31

BTW, whoever said why did a barrister send his dd to the school? Many barristers if they work in criminal law or other legal-aid funded areas are incredibly badly paid for professionals - think £20k a year. They can't afford private schools. The rich barristers work for the big corporations, privately.

titchy Fri 27-Sep-13 14:32:24

Gosh do people really think all comprehensives are just like the bits on 'Educating' that you see on TV?

Wow sad

lborolass Fri 27-Sep-13 14:42:53

Even if a barrister can afford private education they may not agree with it or think it will be the best choice for their children. I've just finished watching last night's and I though the barister's daughter got 13 A-C grades, her friend got 8 I think.

For me it's compulsive viewing but my DCs tell me it's not like their school for which I'm grateful although it does seem so far that the teachers genuinely care about the pupils and imo are coming across well.

LornMowa Fri 27-Sep-13 17:57:17

"Where do you learn all these words from?" - Bailey

Did anyone else find it really sad that the short speech given by Hadiqua (sp) seemed to strike so many of the children as complicated.

Maybe the teachers should set homework that requires them to listen to Radio 4 on a regular basis.

Mumzy Fri 27-Sep-13 21:01:08

There are lots of excellent and a lot more so-so schools in London and lots of different types: faith, grammar, free, community. However most people realistically have little hope of getting into the most sought after ones so choice is an illusion. I think I prefer the scottish system whereby you are allocated your designated local school and then you have to request a more preferred school at least then you dont waste your time traipsing round on open evenings to schools which you have no hope of getting into.

Jewelledkaleidoscope Sat 28-Sep-13 14:45:51

Just catching up.

Did anyone else notice that the friendship groups were all divided along ethnicity lines? Is this normal?

smallandimperfectlyformed Sat 28-Sep-13 14:55:24

I did notice this Jewelledkaleidoscope and sadly it is normal, even in London where I went to school and college. I was friendly with a couple of Asian girls (I am white British) and invited them out with me and my group of friends - almost all white girls, one black girl - and they refused as we would be going out at times that they would have had to be in. So we'd meet at each others and go out for dinner/to the cinema etc at 5pm and have to be back by 11.30 (on the weekends) but my Asian girlfriends would have had to have been home by 5 or 6. I am aware that this is not always the case but it looked like that would have been with Saafiya and Haadiqa, especially given the trouble over Saafiya talking to boys on Facebook.

Have just caught up with this. I can't see what the problem is with the school. It seems friendly and caring. Its certainly not a rough school by any stretch of the imagination.

I really couldn't stand Saffiyah's voice so struggled with this episode. I think they were involved in this because both girls were heavily supported by senior staff. Based on the volume of teens there must have been hundreds of other friendship dramas going on at the same time that the school weren't as involved in.

In regards to London and the issue of private schooling.

We can afford private schooling but would never use it, lots of people don't agree with it in principle (myself included), and secondly I think its a waste of money. I believe that generally, bright children should do well in any school as long as there aren't extenuating circumstances like bullying. Its more important to encourage them to work hard and study rather than pay for a posh school. I much prefer that we go on more exotic holidays or can have more experiences than spend money on schooling which are available for free (well I have to pay the taxes regardless). I went to a rough school, got accepted to a local private school scholarship and returned back to my rough school within a year. Ok they were rough but they weren't snobs; I had the most horrendous bullying for being 'scummy' and Jewish by the private school kids.

We live in North East London and my DC all attend or will attend schools which are providing good learning environments. I suppose they could be considered rough around the edges but I think its good. My two eldest DSs got excellent GCSE results and are both going on to do the things they want.

pixiepotter Sat 28-Sep-13 15:20:08

The bright asian girl only achieved 8 A to C grades*

but 8 A*s wouldhave been an excellent achievment .

FreckledLeopard Sat 28-Sep-13 21:27:51

I just watched the last episode on 4OD. It struck me that Hadiqah only got 8 A*-C GCSEs - I suppose they could all have been A*, but it seems like fewer than expected. Secondly, if she wants to go to a 'good' university, her A-level choices aren't going to get her there. Sociology, drama and law will not be accepted by Red Brick or Russell Group universities. It seems a shame as she appeared very bright, so unless we don't know the full story and she didn't get especially good grades, why on earth was she advised to take those A-levels? sad

forehead Sat 28-Sep-13 21:55:49

Agree Freckled I would have thought that she would have been advised to do different A levels.
I think her GCSE results were good , considering she had only recently moved to Thornhill and had attended eight schools.
I think that the school did a fantastic job.
BTW, most barristers are NOT paid well. My df is a barrister and is definitely NOT rolling in money.

NanaNina Sat 28-Sep-13 23:51:15

I haven't read through all the posts but I'm enjoying the programme too. I like most "real life" things. I don't like the Head - I think he's a bit "full of himself" and likes to think he has a "way" with kids that the other staff don't have - maybe he does, but I find him a tiny bit creepy.

Someone commented on the length of time the staff were taking to sort out fall-outs in the friendship groups and I'm sure this is just for TV. I'm not a teacher but I can't imagine in a school of that size the staff would have time to go to such lengths with girls falling out with each other.

I feel so sorry for some of those girls because I can just see them in a few years time with a couple of babies and a boyfriend and living in a crummy flat. Sad but true.

This IS catty but has anyone else noticed all the staff are overweight (well the females anyway)

Upsy1981 Sun 29-Sep-13 08:43:19

I really didn't see bullying going on in this episode. I saw normal teenage girls having normal teenage disagreements, one minute love each other, next minute can't stand each other. It was certainly like that at my school and mine was a naice school! The thing with it being a tv show is you can't really appreciate the time line of things and how long the disagreement actually went on for. We also don't know what had happened the week before the cameras arrived - my guess is another girl in the group had fallen out with someone else and on and on it goes.

It's about people learning how to manage relationships and learn what is acceptable and not acceptable so that they have a better grasp of this as adults.

Also I think that Haidiqa (?) did well to get the grades that she did given the amount of disruption she had had experienced. To join a school just months before your exams and have to try and settle in socially, get to know the teachers and work out what you have already done at previous schools etc puts a lot of pressure on even the brightest kid.

Vivacia Sun 29-Sep-13 08:51:57

I really didn't see bullying going on in this episode.

Really? When the girl new to the school sat down with the group at dinnertime and one started making nasty comments for no reason at all? As one of the teachers said, she was the target of unkindness for no reason other than she was bright, beautiful and successful.

Upsy1981 Sun 29-Sep-13 09:13:19

No. Sure, I saw teenage girls being bitchy and catty but not bullying. I really couldn't make the call that it was bullying or not unless I'd seen a lot more with my own eyes and not just what the cameras had managed to catch or the editors had decided to show. For it to be bullying it would need to be those girls picking on Hadiqa on a regular basis. I didn't see that. I saw girls having a falling out and I can, to some extent, appreciate why. Hadiqa had moved into an existing friendship group, clicked with one of them in particular, the other girls would see this as 'their' friend being taken away from them (that they'd know since primary) and they were upset. I think an adult would be upset by that happening, but one would hope that, as an adult, you would have a better perspective on things and be able to handle it more maturely. The teenage years are called your formative years for a reason. You are still learning how to handle difficult situations and you don't always get it right, which is why you rely on teachers and parents to guide you - as happened here.

Bullying is a serious thing and I don't like the way it is bandied about every time some kids have a disagreement.

Jewelledkaleidoscope Sun 29-Sep-13 09:21:06

Upsy, you're wrong. There was bullying.

When Hadiqa sat down and one of the girls said 'her face bare pisses me off'- bullying.

Being excluded by that group of girls- bullying.

Having rumours spread about her- bullying.

Jewelledkaleidoscope Sun 29-Sep-13 09:21:51

It's so annoying how when it's girls it's just 'falling out' but when it's boys it's bullying.

Upsy1981 Sun 29-Sep-13 09:28:19

I disagree. In my experience, its more likely to be called bullying if its girls. Boys can just have a bit of a fight, clear the air and move on.

None of those things you have listed says to me 'bullying'.

And I repeat, we don't know the full picture. For all we know, as soon as Hadiqa was away from the cameras she could have been saying or doing all kinds of things which made it understandable for the girls to want to exclude her. We just don't know.

Upsy1981 Sun 29-Sep-13 09:32:03

As I said in my earlier post, bullying is serious and I don't, for one second, want to be seen as diminishing that.

But I do think that by calling every spat between developing teenagers, at an incredibly stressful time in their lives (exam pressure mixed with raging hormones), bullying does divert away from true, sustained and incredibly damaging behaviour.

DalmationDots Sun 29-Sep-13 09:38:23

I think sometimes these days we can be too quick to over-dramatise normal fall outs or behaviour into bullying.
I don't think I know many teenage girls who haven't fallen out with their friends or had one major fall out. I don't think many teenage girls won't have said bitchy comments or experiences rumors. It isn't nice, but it is normal and going to happen whatever a school does.
If we pandered to every occasion then how do children today learn a bit of resilience and how to deal with these situations by themselves. The school was dealing with it well IMO, highlighting to the girls that there was an issue and that they needed to sort it between themselves, or take up the offer of support from the school. The school then checked up on the issue regularly.

DalmationDots Sun 29-Sep-13 09:44:36

Agree with upsy - naming these kind of petty girl fall outs as bullying takes away from serious bullying.
For me I'd far rather my DD had these petty fights, felt a bit rubbish for a few days then, as they normally do, was best friends again the next day as they had sorted it out...
than the whole thing being intervened with by a teacher who tells DD she is being bullied and it is awful and that she shouldn't worry, the teachers will deal with it. DD's friendship would probably never be recovered with the girl, she would probably feel pretty powerless, her self-esteem crushed and it would be a unnecessarily huge issue.
Scenario 1 promotes resilience, scenario 2 promotes allowing yourself to be a victim in a situation and allowing someone else to take control and sort it for you.

Vivacia Sun 29-Sep-13 10:06:24

and I don't, for one second, want to be seen as diminishing that.

With respect, I think you are diminishing that. Hadiqa went from a confident student who enjoyed school to an introvert removing herself from school life. The commentary told us that teachers were concerned at how the friendship issues were effecting her school work.

There can be a lot of pressure on victims to take responsibility for others bullying them, to just accept it as part of growing up, to reflect on how "they are causing" the bullying.

Vivacia Sun 29-Sep-13 10:09:49

For me I'd far rather my DD had these petty fights, felt a bit rubbish for a few days then

Honestly? She moves to a new school, and when she sits with her one, first friend, the other girls make those comments out loud? "Why's she sitting with us? Just her face pisses me off?". Nasty, jealous, passive comments. And when your daughter tries to address this in an adult manner they turn away from her and ignore her distress. And this happens again, and again and again?

I know some will think I'm exagerating, but it was the ongoing situation that her teachers commented on, and the change they saw in her and her attitude to school.

DalmationDots Sun 29-Sep-13 16:26:13

Vivacia I think the issue is in the fact this is a TV show and how they portray it is very biased and constructed meaning. The way in which it was shown, I saw it that she had been there a fair amount of time (1 term +) and the fights shown were petty girl things, because they didn't from day 1 reject her, it was just for a few days and resolved. But I am aware this is all subjective to how you interpret the lack of information and shit-stirring by the TV company!