Top of the Lake. Mmmm....

(264 Posts)
partystress Sat 13-Jul-13 22:17:46

Weird but has me hooked. Anyone else watching?

valiumredhead Sat 13-Jul-13 22:19:43

Recording it!

specialsubject Sat 13-Jul-13 22:32:59

to see it later - know that part of NZ well so just after the scenery, any plot will be a bonus!

guineapiglet Sat 13-Jul-13 22:49:00

Scenery utterly fab but did keep expecting to see Frodo and some Orcs running around....
Weird plot but very intruiging, will keep watching , i love Jane Campion. Photography was stunning...

eddiemairswife Sat 13-Jul-13 22:54:15

Quite strange but very gripping. Rather a lot of similar looking men which confused me, is there a shortage of razors in New Zealand? Puzzled about the man in the orange tent. Did she know he was going to be there?

cocolepew Sat 13-Jul-13 23:08:43

Bit weird but very beautiful.

carlajean Sat 13-Jul-13 23:11:34

Liked it. Do we know the father of the child, I'm not sure if I missed it. Would also like to know what the guy was doing in the tent and who was in the tent with him the night before. AND what have I seen the female detective in before?

robobear Sat 13-Jul-13 23:13:40

Mad Men!

carlajean Sat 13-Jul-13 23:27:57

Ha! Thank you

outingmyselfprobably Sat 13-Jul-13 23:32:50

I liked it but haven't fully digested it yet.

partystress Sun 14-Jul-13 09:01:30

eddiemairswife he confused me too. Was he Tui's mum's boyfriend or just one more stubbly man?

valiumredhead Sun 14-Jul-13 09:27:38

I loved it, intrigued now as to how the plot will pan out.

UnicornsPooGlitter Sun 14-Jul-13 09:38:37

DH and I enjoyed it too, we'll record the other 5 episodes. We spent some time in NZ, so it's great to see the scenery etc.

So, the female lead (sorry, not sure of her name) previously had a relationship with Tui's half-brother? And his 'friends' attacked her at some point? It's going to be dark / difficult viewing I think

I liked this exchange:
Female lead 'Why do I feel manipulated?'
Her Mum 'I don't know - other people would feel sad.'
<probably paraphrasing>

Who is the actor with long grey hair (GJ?)? I think I recognise her.

DH thought it was set slightly in the past (sexist attitude in the police, old-ish fashioned phone etc), but I thought it was set at about the current time.

lovelychops Sun 14-Jul-13 09:55:51

Think the lady with the long grey hair is Holly Hunter?

Wasn't sure what I thought. Think it's going to be pretty dark, possibly with regards to detective having been attacked in the past. I'll stick with it though.

differentnameforthis Sun 14-Jul-13 10:05:22

Keep watching...twists & turns a plenty! We had it here earlier in the year & I highly recommend it.

UnicornsPooGlitter Sun 14-Jul-13 10:06:37

So, who dunnit?

Obvious suspects are:
Dad
Half-brother
Boy on bus

But, I keep thinking she was telling the truth when she wrote No-one. Although that makes no sense confused. Lots of repetitions of 'No-one' - her Dad ('No-one loves my daughter like I do.'. Something in next week's episode too (can't remember what though). And it's called In the lake, and that's where she tried to end it all... Hmm. grin

differentnameforthis Sun 14-Jul-13 10:06:39

And his 'friends' attacked her at some point?

No, not his friends. Dirty older men!

differentnameforthis Sun 14-Jul-13 10:08:06

Who is the actor with long grey hair (GJ?)

Holly Hunter

differentnameforthis Sun 14-Jul-13 10:09:06

Obvious suspects are:

Chasing the wrong leads...it isn't obvious!

UnicornsPooGlitter Sun 14-Jul-13 10:18:29

I know differentname, they're obvious, therefore probably not the one!

HowGoodIsThat Sun 14-Jul-13 11:30:13

Man in the orange tent is Tui's half brother (another one!) and Robyn followed him back there to return the parcel he left on her doorstep. What was in the parcel, who was the woman in the tent - who knows?

A touch of the Twin Peaks I thought. Beautifully shot and acted but sadly let down by the "humour" of the womens' retreat. I thought those characters were clunky and obvious and jarringly out of place. Having said that, the two thuggish brothers were also clunky and obvious but were just so menacing that they pulled it off, I think.

Peter Mullen was outstanding, as always.

NZ Noir may be my new thing.

eddiemairswife Sun 14-Jul-13 13:10:05

I'm glad others are are confused. I often feel I'm a bit slow when watching, and people get irritated and roll their eyes when I ask what's going on.

BrennieGirl Sun 14-Jul-13 15:12:05

I missed it confused. Does anyone know if it is repeated during the week? I can't find it on the sky guide.

SoftKittyWarmKitty Sun 14-Jul-13 18:49:33

I watched it, thought it was very intriguing. What's the thing with the lake though, as in, people don't go in the lake or they'll die? How did the man dragged behind the boat by the thugs die? Don't think he drowned, so s the water toxic or something?

IdaBlankenship Sun 14-Jul-13 19:51:40

I think I'm going to need a bit of time with this one. I wasn't captivated but it had enough to make me watch next week. I'm not sure NZ should get Jane Campion to do their tourist board ads though - it made the place look really creepy

UnicornsPooGlitter Sun 14-Jul-13 20:11:29

SoftKitty, he drowned.

I'm half way through Ep 1 and liking it so far. The lake water must be the opposite kind to the reservoir water in The Returned.

Whenever I read the title, my brain translates it to "Top o' the lake" in an Irish accent.

CatelynStark Sun 14-Jul-13 20:21:31

Isn't it that the water is so cold, you can't survive for more than a few minutes?

The teacher scolded Tui for being in the lake for that reason, I thought??

Although there was the bit about the legend of the lake so maybe that's part if it as well - local folklore?

YoungBritishPissArtist Sun 14-Jul-13 20:41:45

Will watch later on iPlayer. I adore Peter Mullan, so gorgeous <swoon> even though he's the same age as my parents

Echocave Mon 15-Jul-13 12:35:21

Agree that the acting and plot to do with the women's retreat was ludicrous, Holly Hunter channelling Catweasel was ridiculous.
I think Elizabeth Moss is great but I'm not sure I am quite ready for all the misery and misogyny on offer.

ChocsAwayInMyGob Mon 15-Jul-13 16:17:43

There is allegedly a demon's heart at the bottom of the lake, but the guy drowned simply because he couldn't get his head out of the water long enough to breathe. I think they were supposed to frighten him for the count of three, but the mad Scot kept going. The teacher told the girl off because it looked like she was going to top herself.

I really like Elisabeth Moss, she is very likeable and intense.

diddl Mon 15-Jul-13 19:59:41

Oh it was depressing, wasn't it.

Pregnant 12yr old-now dead?

Or father sent her for an abortion?

Stereotypical thugs & "backwards" ideas about women.

Women's refuge-wtaf??!!

IdaBlankenship Mon 15-Jul-13 21:20:43

Yes, that was what I found jarring - the retreat and Holly Hunter's performance. They didn't feel real.

diddl Mon 15-Jul-13 21:43:03

I just couldn't really see the point of them.

Well, that the land was sold showed what a brutal bastard Tui's father is.

Tui going to the women now has "outsiders" knowing that a 12yr old is pregnant.

So I can see there was a plot device there, but...

specialsubject Tue 16-Jul-13 18:26:34

hopelessly confused but will stick with it for NZ-ness. Although some terrible accents, and Holly Hunter never could enunciate properly. And hope they cleared up afterwards, the messy hippy camp was convincingly disgusting in that setting.

the legend about the lake (Lake Wakatipu, 'hollow of the sleeping giant') would surely be known to the detective that grew up in the area? It is bloody freezing (fed by glacial streams) so the chap freezing and drowning could happen.

FriskyHenderson Tue 16-Jul-13 18:37:50

I watched the first 20 or so mins and I'm not sure I can be bothered watching the rest. ..

Shrugged Wed 17-Jul-13 14:25:42

I liked it less than I expected, given how much i like Jane Campion. The accents from all over the place kept throwing me, the casual misogyny is depressing, and the women's refuge bit was just plain odd, as if it had escaped from a completely different series! Why play that plot, alone in a pretty grim episode, for laughs?

Plus, I must admit I kept thinking 'What would Sarah Lund have done?'

Did anyone else recognise Faramir from The Lord if the Rings? The detective with the parting who brings Tui home from the police station...?

diddl Wed 17-Jul-13 14:39:45

It was too stereotypical somehow for me.

A pregnant 12yr old & it seemed to be accepted!

Don't tell me, the whole place is in on it somehowhmm

I have a feeling that the solution will be equally depressing.

Not her father, that's too obvious.

One of the policemen, but the father will let it go as he's doing something illegal?

Or he'll turn a blind eye for being let off the hook for the murder of the guy who sold the land?

I'm thinking she was drugged as she remembers nothing?

When is it set?

Seemed very 80s!

susiedaisy Wed 17-Jul-13 15:24:59

Marking my place but not sure what I think yet.

Baconsarnie Thu 18-Jul-13 08:50:23

It's set in the (relative) present day because of the mobile phones, but I'm finding the outdated police attitudes hard to swallow. Will stick with it though, for the time being.

IdaBlankenship Thu 18-Jul-13 09:17:07

I can imagine rural NZ police attitudes are a little behind the times. When were in Perth, WA you could imagine you'd gone back to the 80's!

I thought it was very odd (but I liked it and will watch again). From the article I read in the paper I thought it was going to be a crime drama like The Bridge, The Fall or Broadchurch. Really serious stuff. I thought the refuge women were far too comical and jarring.

Then I read a review that said it was supposed to be like Twin Peaks and that made a lot more sense. Instead of Who killed Laura Palmer, it's Where's Tui?

Really looking forward to episode 2 now.

JustinBsMum Thu 18-Jul-13 19:12:02

What a difference the long hair makes to Peter Mullan, he's v good looking and 'normal' without it. Good acting on his part.

waikikamookau Sat 20-Jul-13 20:11:22

all set for later?

waikikamookau Sat 20-Jul-13 20:12:44

missed most of this last week but read a review so feel I know it, should I watch it on iplayer to get better acquainted?

CruCru Sat 20-Jul-13 22:22:58

I like this show a lot. Think CG might be the most interesting so far.

valiumredhead Sat 20-Jul-13 22:27:22

Very grim tonight-I'm hooked!

susiedaisy Sat 20-Jul-13 22:36:08

Have recorded it, will watch tomorrow smile

differentnameforthis Sun 21-Jul-13 09:24:17

I think the attitude of the police will be explained soon...you just needs to watch it in it's entirety.

diddl Sun 21-Jul-13 10:10:28

"I think the attitude of the police will be explained soon"-yeah-like they're in on ithmm

That'll be original!!

UnicornsPooGlitter Sun 21-Jul-13 12:00:52

Aw, I really like parts of this, but some of the criticisms on this thread are justified. I'll stick with it for now.

susiedaisy Sun 21-Jul-13 17:43:33

It's quirky but I quite like it!

Nancy66 Sun 21-Jul-13 18:51:08

I'm enjoying it. Elizabeth Moss' accent is bothering me though.

3MonthMaid Sun 21-Jul-13 20:44:02

I'm struggling to understand them blush usually have this problem with US stuff but not expecting this!

missbopeep Sun 21-Jul-13 21:13:36

It's atmospheric but I kept wondering why the female cop ( sorry forgotten her name) was going into dangerous situations alone, with no back up etc.......

I did enjoy learning that sheeps' vaginas are the nearest and best thing to ours grin

valiumredhead Sun 21-Jul-13 22:36:14

The closing scene with the shower sent shivers down my spinesad

M2GMOJK Mon 22-Jul-13 01:16:06

It's on BBC2. You could probably watch it on I-player. It makes for uncomfortable viewing in places, but we are sticking with it.

Sixfeetandcounting Mon 22-Jul-13 01:59:46

Keep watching people. It gets better and better and I had less trouble understanding the accents in the later episodes. I live in Queenstown NZ, the area where it is set - the lake water is freeeeezing so the guy either drowned or had a heart attack from the cold. They basically give you 20 minutes to survive if you fall in. Brrr!

Peter Mullan is flipping awesome! He steals every scene he is in.

mrswishywashy Mon 22-Jul-13 04:05:02

I come from the real top of the lake, Glenorchy. Getting married there in three weeks. So exciting to see the scenery and pick out extras that I know.

We swam in the lake as children, jumping off the wharf and then drying out on the wharf before jumping in again.

Oblomov Mon 22-Jul-13 08:15:32

Am finding it very slow and a bit boring.
Like The Village. F**king depressing.
I can't take to the Female Cop. She communicates in almost one word sentences. Barely. I appreciate there is history with her mum, but for Pete's sake.
It is deliberately obtuse and weird, just to impress us?
Dh and I are just not sure .....

Oblomov Mon 22-Jul-13 08:17:55

The best bit was the 7 minute fuck. And how 3 of them attempted to go for the $100 bill. Ha ha.

Watching this with 17 year old DS <cringe>. I am on the point of giving up as it seems to be going nowhere. Tui's father is truly scary.

Pascha Mon 22-Jul-13 09:47:02

I found the first episode good but the second one very slow. I will watch next week but I'm not really hooked.

waikikamookau Mon 22-Jul-13 09:58:42

the scenery is absolutely beautiful.
breathtaking

Lottapianos Mon 22-Jul-13 11:51:27

The guy who went to the hotel room with that woman said his name was Sarge. Sarge was one of the names mentioned by Johno in episode 1 when he was trying to apologise to Robin for something - he also was trying to update her on what some of the local guys were doing now, and one of the names was Sarge. I thought the implication at the time was that Robin had been attacked (raped?) by some of the local young men years ago, although I'm sure we'll find out more as the weeks go on.

I'm not sure about it - it's beautiful to look at and very atmospheric. I do find a lot of the dialogue extremely mumbled though and it's seriously slow-moving.

partystress Mon 22-Jul-13 12:44:20

Grippingly horrible and horribly gripping this week I thought. Was there a room hidden behind the bathroom? What did Psycho Dad hand over to Bent Top Cop in the boat - money or drugs? Why did Brusque Businessman with Chopper take a blind bit of notice of Holly Hunter? Going away this week so will have to wait 3 weeks to catch up!

BirdyBedtime Mon 22-Jul-13 12:46:27

I'm still not decided on whether I like it or not! The main storyline is interesting but I find the side story of GJ and the retreat odd and distracting. Agree that the scenery is amazing and re-affirms my wish to visit NZ at some point.

HellonHeels Mon 22-Jul-13 17:03:36

It's irritating me and seems a bit daft and also rather grim but I'm going to stick with it. Enjoyed episode 2 more than the first one.

Accents ridiculous. I'm a NZer and having trouble understanding what people are saying (have been in UK for many years though, maybe I've lost my ear for them?)

Police procedures seem less than believable, based on everything I've learned from the Bill, the Killing and Night Cops grin

I enjoyed helicopter dad, bit of light relief.

HellonHeels Mon 22-Jul-13 17:06:06

The 7 minute fuck was a good change of mood.

Hippy/women's camp / refuge grated on me - far too stereotyped. I don't really get the Holly Hunter character - is she supposed to be a guru kinda thing?

Chivetalking Mon 22-Jul-13 17:25:46

Liked episode 1 but found no 2 slooooow. Loving scary Scottish dad though. He makes it IMO.

It'll get another chance from me but if it doesn't speed up a bit I can't say beyond that.

madeit Mon 22-Jul-13 17:48:08

Yes I was born and raised in that area of NZ. It's just stunning. But just to set the record straight there might be some weird/eccentric characters in that part of the worldand there are also interesting, stable amazing people. I'm not biased!

Xmasbaby11 Mon 22-Jul-13 18:37:14

episode 2 was so slow I actually fell asleep! It looks beautiful but like most thrillers, the rural inhabitants never come off well.

dogindisguise Mon 22-Jul-13 19:54:22

Loved scenery but found it a bit slow and weird. The police are too sexist, the women's retreat seems very stereotypical. Would a girl found to be pregnant be taken to a police station or would she have visits at home from social workers/counsellors?

Is Tui under the shower?

soimpressed Mon 22-Jul-13 22:57:58

I've been really enjoying it. There is so little worth watching on TV now though so that might be the reason.

specialsubject Tue 23-Jul-13 11:16:02

sticking with it for NZ'ness, but the acting is shocking and it is almost impossible to understand what people are saying. Amused by the bit where the kid in the coffee shop was told to open his mouth when speaking - if female lead and the interchangeable male actors did the same, it would help! The only understandable one is the Scot.

I've spent a lot of time in NZ and had no trouble with their accent, so it is not that - just poor diction.

valiumredhead Tue 23-Jul-13 11:17:54

How odd, I've not had any problems and I am well known for being a bit deafgrin

Oblomov Wed 24-Jul-13 07:42:34

I too understand every word, and have had no trouble with accents. Unusual, because I am normally totally useless.

Offred Wed 24-Jul-13 11:00:25

I found it contrived and uninteresting tbh. Disappointing in a similar way to that BBC thing with Aidan Gillan and Sophie Okonedo in about the twin who was murdered on May Day in that small rural village was. In both of them the quality of the acting and the direction vastly outstripped the storyline and writing in a really irritating way.

OwooenBled Wed 24-Jul-13 11:03:13

I'm sticking with it but can only understand/hear about half of it. I've always found Holly Hunter difficult to follow but in this she is just making strangulated sounds.I think I'll have to resort to subtitles....

BeCool Wed 24-Jul-13 11:55:12

I'm loving it.

Each episode only seems to last about 20 minutes though - woosh! its over.

I'm from NZ and think the diction and claustrophic atmosphere of life in the town is captured very well.

Thought the 7 minute fuck was a bold and very funny moment.

slug Wed 24-Jul-13 12:24:47

I get my homesickness kick from watching it but I agree with the accent issues. Elizabeth Moss makes an attempt but it keeps on going wrong.

There's also a couple of Australians in the cast, their Kiwi accents are pretty good but every now and then a flat 'a' jars the effect.

susiedaisy Wed 24-Jul-13 12:28:06

Does the father of the missing girl have a Scottish accent or have I miss heard him??

BeCool Wed 24-Jul-13 18:39:13

There was a Bbc documentary about NZ films - years ago now. Fronted by Sam Neil. It was called "Cinema of Unease" which was a perfect title. Id love the chance to see it again.

Top of the Lake fits in with this feeling of unease that threads through much NZ film, beautifully.

Flobbadobs Thu 25-Jul-13 12:19:49

Dear God David Wenham is lovely to look at, almost as good as the scenery!!
It's too slow for me tbh, there's drawing the plot out and then there's taking the mickey.. DH is really enjoying it though.

islingtongirl Thu 25-Jul-13 13:30:36

Also watching this. Yes I think Tui's dad has a Scottish accent. Also found shower seen bit weird but wondering if a red herring. Did you see trailer for next episode? Looked like a young girl hanging at one point? Presumably not Tui? Creepy...

Salbertina Fri 26-Jul-13 17:20:45

Stunning cinematography! Quite sold me on visiting NZ a place which had never appealed before. Good acting and script also. A rare treat!

susiedaisy Sat 27-Jul-13 21:39:56

Anyone watching tonight?

GypsyFloss Sat 27-Jul-13 21:47:10

Me...bit confused to be honest.

HellonHeels Sat 27-Jul-13 21:47:10

Yes!

HellonHeels Sat 27-Jul-13 21:59:27

That police officer is just creepy.

susiedaisy Sat 27-Jul-13 22:03:41

I'm running a bit behind just saw the bit where the father hit himself with the belt at his mothers grave, all a bit odd this week!

valiumredhead Sat 27-Jul-13 22:24:09

Of course Ruiz's dad has a Scottish ascentgrin

Way too many big story lines this week-the drugs,tui's dad, the rape the hanging!!

valiumredhead Sat 27-Jul-13 22:24:27

Tui's

OldRider Tue 30-Jul-13 08:24:32

Loving it but struggling with the diction.is it me, my TV, my ears? Not sure I know what's going on either, but still glued!

Highlander Tue 30-Jul-13 08:31:28

Tui's dad is played by Peter Mullen; well known Scottish actor/writer.

Treagues Tue 30-Jul-13 08:42:06

I like it a lot, but I really like Jane Campion. It feels very recognisable as her work, so a bit different and a bit weirder and a lot darker than comparable series. It's hard to watch but a real treat.

cornyblend37 Tue 30-Jul-13 08:48:26

I'm also struggling to understand the accents.
I don't know if I'm enjoying it that much...the only character that I like is Tui.
All the adults seem to be really horrible, seedy people (including the police).

Treagues Tue 30-Jul-13 08:52:17

There is a bewildering array of accents, it's true grin
I think everyone's mumbling because they're fucked up and struggling.

Nancy66 Tue 30-Jul-13 10:12:32

watch it with subtitles on - makes life a lot easier!

ThePowerof3 Tue 30-Jul-13 11:24:14

I missed it on Saturday, did I miss any major stuff or will I be able to catch up?

Treagues Tue 30-Jul-13 11:25:45

You missed major stuff. It was worth watching. smile

ThePowerof3 Tue 30-Jul-13 11:27:30

I was at a wedding, I'll try I player, thanks!

leakylills Tue 30-Jul-13 13:21:13

I found it all a bit self consciously arty-farty I'm afraid. But maybe I've just seen too many things like it. Twin Peaks kind of redefined this idiom all those years ago.

ThePowerof3 Tue 30-Jul-13 13:37:50

All caught up now

HellonHeels Sun 04-Aug-13 00:13:28

I'm a bit more absorbed in it after tonight's episode but really some of it seems farcical.

would Robin's mum really have been injected with morphine like that? no oramorph?

what was the purpose of the naked hippy women in the lake scene?

2rebecca Sun 04-Aug-13 11:04:44

I'm glad the mum is dead so will no longer be in it. I found her character really irritating. She was so serious and self absorbed and didn't respect her daughter's privacy at all. Mind you the daughter behaves more like a sulky teenager than a professional woman, lots of flouncing around and strappy tops.
Why does she wear shorts and pants to bed as well, especially if she's been having sex. Do some women have sex at night and then put their knickers back on and another layer on top for extra not quite sure what? It's obviously not cold in the houses as she's always just in strappy tops despite comments on it being cold outside which seems unlikley given the nude swimming and summer attire worn by everyone.
Does Jane Campion think all older women with long white hair have to sound like they're writing enigmatic self help manuals and talk... very... slowly...?
Love the Scottish guy, but there's no-on in it who seems normal or even particularly likeable.

valiumredhead Sun 04-Aug-13 16:24:31

Bloody sky plus cut out in the last 2 mins! I got up to robin on the phone listening to the message, what happened??

susiedaisy Sun 04-Aug-13 16:30:00

It ended with the message from her mum and then went to what happens next time so you didn't miss anything!

papalazaru Sun 04-Aug-13 16:41:24

Agree about the cold weather comments then seeing Robin wearing very little at home and shagging naked in the forest....
We are wondering if robin and johnno will turn out to be half sister & brother and that's why the Mum was so dead against their relationship......

susiedaisy Sun 04-Aug-13 17:25:31

Tui's father is very toxic I really don't like him at all!

HellonHeels Sun 04-Aug-13 17:53:26

Oh yes totally with you on the continual strappy top wearing.

Robin's mother was a nightmare. Totally selfish.

The head police officer creeps me out.

eddiemairswife Sun 04-Aug-13 18:19:41

Not keen on all the tattoos the men have, especially the eyebrows on Robin's mother's partner. I too have resorted to subtitles.

2rebecca Sun 04-Aug-13 18:23:58

I reckon the head police officer slipped her rohypnol or something, but don't understand why she started laying into the wine when she'd driven there anyway, more irresponsible teenage type behaviour. You don't go to dinner with your boss and get trollied.

2rebecca Sun 04-Aug-13 18:29:02

Did tattoo guy get fed up with the mum and overdo the morphine? It seemed highly unlikely that she'd go from hosting a dinner party to dead overnight, and have time to leave a phone message. You generally have a few days of being ill in bed then slipping into a coma with deaths from metastatic cancer. Her death was more like an opera heroine's with a phone call instead of an aria before she collapses in a heap.
Agree the bloke could be her half brother, but if so why didn't the mum actually tell her that, knowing that she was screwing him and she didn't have long to live.

OctopusPete8 Mon 05-Aug-13 12:46:12

Ahh! a top of the lake thread!

What the hell was the naked sex scene thing then naked johno confronting them? All I could do was laugh!!!

And also that police officer, most bizarre creepy proposal ever.

I agree I find Robin a bit like a sulky teenager,

Also that bit when Matt's soon said 'I used to see you passed out on Tui's bed with her walking around on top of you?' I was like confused

I knew he was implying something but a bit garbled.

Lottapianos Mon 05-Aug-13 13:02:58

I'm enjoying this more now. I think Robin's character has developed a lot over the last 2 episodes. Her anger and grief and self-loathing are heart breaking to watch. The line about how all she has to offer the baby she gave up is to keep the truth from her forever sad

Didn't like her mum's character either but agree that her death was all a bit sudden confused

Still no idea what GJ is all about or the significance of her character!

susiedaisy Mon 05-Aug-13 19:50:47

I wonder if Tui's dad got her pregnant as Tui wrote down No-one when asked who was the father of her baby and her dad kept saying no-one loved Tui as much as I do. He repeated it several times the other week?!?!

OctopusPete8 Tue 06-Aug-13 00:09:47

Yeah I thought that too

specialsubject Tue 06-Aug-13 13:49:54

missing a lot due to terrible diction (as well as badly done accents) - Holly Hunter is always bad but some of the others are giving her a run for her money.

PMSL at the naked shagging in the forest. Looks like it was filmed in autumn/winter, when the south island is not warm, and in addition the area is full of sandflies. You would NOT want to be naked there. And Kiwi houses are always cold too, Robin would not really go round dressed like that.

sticking with it, but suspect it is six hours of my life that I will not get back.

CMP69 Tue 06-Aug-13 15:36:08

Good I thought I was think, glad everyone else is confused too!
I think its excellent

CMP69 Tue 06-Aug-13 15:36:50

Thick (perhaps I am)

OctopusPete8 Tue 06-Aug-13 16:03:25

I think its interesting those damaged women following GJ like lambs, to paradise when its clear she's dismissive at best and completely indifferent/couldn't care less at worst.

How is the situation with GJ any different from the situations most of them have just left?

ZenNudist Tue 06-Aug-13 21:13:24

Think I'm giving up on this. Watched 3 episodes & was so bored with number 3. All the random, wierd sex shit boring me senseless. I've got a bit sick of esoteric for the sake of it.

Disappointed as I think I was hoping for something more like 'The Killing'. You know, with a plot, or vague semblance of narrative coherence.

Lovely scenery though & Elizabeth Moss & HH are fab.

2rebecca Tue 06-Aug-13 23:36:16

I watched a film on the making of it. Robin worse sensible clothes for the weather and they all looked more appropriately attired for the weather in their civvies than their costumes.
Actors and directors do talk a load of pretentious crap though.
It's a good advert for the NZ tourist board as it's beautifully shot, the content and believability is a bit lacking. Rather like the piano I suppose so maybe ii shouldn't be surprised.
Lots of earnest gazing into the sunset whilst you think "Naah, that would never happen"

VitoCorleone Wed 07-Aug-13 08:21:23

Me and DP are enjoying it - though we did think it was Australia blush i even said "ooh those mountains look like the ones in Lord of the Rings" confused

The Scottish guy is ace, if a bit scary.

Its very dark in places then plain weird in others. Enjoying it though.

OctopusPete8 Wed 07-Aug-13 09:55:07

Yeah Matt Mitcham is by far the best,

Treaguez Wed 07-Aug-13 12:44:25

I'm really surprised this isn't playing better on Mumsnet. I recognise most of the characters from past threads.

Robin is dealing with a horrific event half a lifetime ago. She's all over the place, changing from one minute to the next.

Her mother is emotionally manipulative and possibly toxic as hell, and Robin knows it, but can do little about it. I bet if NZ had stately homes, her mother would have taken her to a few.

GJ is a cult leader who basically has to do feck all to get women to follow her. She's not even trying. They are desperate in their weakness for even the most cynical and offhand comments from her.

Matt Mitcham is the equal of some of the hideous abusive characters I've read about on here, and then some.

Johnno the ex is still a bit of an enigma, really, isn't he? We'd all be telling her to steer clear, I suspect. Still two more episodes for him to turn out a wrong-'un.

And the cop, Al...I think he's by far the worst. Good looking, calm, fairly smooth, do-gooder, we thought he was good at his job but that's been brought into question. He gets Robin drunk, undresses her when she can't remember, puts her in his bed...sacks her, re-employs her just to talk to a journalist, and then quietly and firmly proposes to her, knowing she's in a very vulnerable state of mind. He's a giant emotionally abusive head fuck, one of those men we read about time and again on here. I hope he gets shown up for what he is. I love the way his character has been written: nothing signposted or talked about, no pantomime evil, just the insidious and commonplace reality of someone who doesn't quite make your red flags wave, but who's unsettling all the same.

2rebecca Wed 07-Aug-13 12:53:39

It's maybe not getting a good reception because there are no strong, or even normal women in it. They're all nuts.
Mind you the men are no better.
I lived on the South Island for a year. There are lots of normal people there, and men without tattoos. the tattooed Maori are in a minority on the South island.

Treaguez Wed 07-Aug-13 13:03:10

I think Robin is immensely strong, and at a terrible time in her life = drama.

It's fiction, but like real life it's totally unbalanced and destabilising. I like that about it a lot.

As for it being South Island, isn't it more that the writers are from NZ, therefore they chose part of the country that's pretty isolated, very very small town (always good psychodrama in a small town) and looks absolutely bloody amazing? I think it could have been set anywhere with those three criteria.

Isn't the point that these are normal people: normal people are fucked up!

OctopusPete8 Wed 07-Aug-13 13:59:27

See, I should like Robin but I don't....like er' of the fall...I made a thread a while back whinging about Why 'strong wimmin'" on TV are so bloody unlikeable,

But tbh in this everyone,man,woman etc is wierd.

I feel for chimp lady haha,

Lottapianos Wed 07-Aug-13 14:37:42

Treaguez, that's an excellent post. You are so right about Al the cop - I hadn't seen it that way and hadn't noticed red flags as such but I know exactly what you mean. His proposal was just......bizarre hmm

susiedaisy Wed 07-Aug-13 14:59:12

Yes you are def right about the cop he's unsettling without being massive red flags in your face, I'm so busy thinking how horrible Tui's father and step brothers are I hadn't paid much attention!!

papalazaru Wed 07-Aug-13 15:55:34

I think Al's going to turn out to be much much worse than we think..... Plus he's up to no good with Matt Mitcham - presuming those we're drugs they exchanged on the lake.... Or money to keep quiet about the drugs. That's why Al gave Matt the heads up about the warrant to search his house. Which, incidentally, was a truly rubbish search.
I'm suspecting that the coffee shop is a front for drugs/prostituion or something......

2rebecca Wed 07-Aug-13 16:36:42

I don't see Robin as strong at all. A strong woman wouldn't get drunk at her bosses house, would have seen a psychologist about the rape to get it largely sorted in her head before moving back to where she lived and wouldn't be behaving quite so much like a sulky teenager. I can't believe in her as a professional woman at all.
Agree Al is creepy and will be seen to be involved in police corruption later on.
Robin should have seen that the house search was a farce. not sure why they had to leave the house in such a rush when the dead guy was found, he wasn't going anywhere.

Lottapianos Wed 07-Aug-13 16:51:11

2rebecca, I see what you mean about her not being strong. I do find her character believable though - she's in recovery from horrendous trauma, she has difficulty making decisions, she makes some bad decisions, she has moments where she feels like she is going crazy. She's messy and complicated and not terribly likeable. I'm just crossing everything that she tells creepy Al where to shove his proposal!

Treaguez Wed 07-Aug-13 18:47:41

Well, without giving away any spoilers for those who haven't seen ep 3, I think all the things that happened to her, her controlling mother etc make it not a given that she would turn out ok. Up until now she has done really well. Then she learns about a pregnant girl, her mother is dying, she takes up with Jonno again, she has to go over the events back when she was 15, she's not sure about her fiancé: this is her breakdown, isn't it? Not a reflection of how she normally is.

(And then Al says 'We could have a baby, a lovely baby...' - he knows exactly what buttons he is pressing. angry )

Anyway, I'm kind of on the edge of my seat with this. I really hope Al gets a good and meaningful downfall. Matt is the decoy baddie - I just think every small town has someone like him, who perhaps won't go as far as murder but who has his fingers in all the pies and knows how to threaten and extort and twist everyone's words if they try to take him on. I'll be really disappointed if they make it all about Matt.

Treaguez Wed 07-Aug-13 18:52:45

Sorry to go on... wink

I do think she would have got drunk at Al's house: she is at a particularly bad time of her life so not reacting normally.

(I'm starting to worry about myself now that I'm finding this series actually pretty believable and the characters quite real shock )

flatmum Wed 07-Aug-13 21:55:33

I really enjoyed this series. have seen the whole thing so maybe that makes it seem better overall, quite an interesting ending.

spoilers (just in case)

Doesn't everyone think Johnno is her half brother then? That's what I got from the mum trying to separate them. Presumably she didn't tell because she's Catholic and doesn't want to admit to having a baby out of wedlock.

Treaguez Wed 07-Aug-13 23:04:30

Yes that's what I thought too. I kind of hope it's not that.
I'm really intrigued as to why Robin has never asked Jonno why he has no contact with Matt.

HellonHeels Sat 10-Aug-13 22:02:12

Why the HELL did she get in that boat with the freako scary head copper?

Treaguez Sat 10-Aug-13 22:21:59

I don't know, we said the same.
I found that episode really upsetting, I just found myself sobbing into the fridge blush

rootypig Sat 10-Aug-13 22:28:46

I love this show. DH and I just wept for Jamie. I recognise the brutality against women and children. The tenderness interwoven is heartbreaking. I love the scenery! I love GJ! I love the weirdness. I cheered Robin stabbing Sarge. i don't understand that anyone can think she's not brave or strong. Or care about her tops. The women in it are so refreshingly different from most female characters on TV, nutty and with bare faces and ordinary bodies. Agreed, the mother was a pita (this rather accurate too grin)

YES to Al the Copper being an epic turd. Interested in the suggestion that she and Jonno are half sibs. But would her mum have let them date as teenagers? And I get the sense Jonno hasn't told her his awful truth.

Lagoonablue Sat 10-Aug-13 22:48:52

Last one next week and I now know what happens. Kind of obvious.

It has been good though.

2rebecca Sat 10-Aug-13 22:58:16

Why weren't the police prosecuting the blokes who ran after the children and hunted them down armed with guns and chased one to his death? Isn't his mother wanting them prosecuted for manslaughter?
Having lived on the South Island for a year a few years ago I do wonder what the police there think of the amazingly backward way they are portrayed in this.
Does Jane Campion know anyone who actually works in today's police force in new Zealand? Has she done any research on this?

dontputaringonit Sun 11-Aug-13 00:43:43

Just watched next week's episode.

No spoilers:

It was first aired as 7 episodes, with ads. I MUCH preferred the BBC edit. Annoyed I watched the final one with the other edit!

I sobbed after this week's episode. It wasn't the death so much as him saying "here's the reward, I'll do whatever I can to make it easier" and then her saying "kill me". sad

Marzipanface Sun 11-Aug-13 00:50:38

Love it. Al is frightening. The biggest abuser is the one in plain sight etc...

I used to know Campion's nephew. He was gorgeous.

dontputaringonit Sun 11-Aug-13 00:50:42

Having just read through the thread and having just watched the final episode there are now things that make sense!

EcoRI Sun 11-Aug-13 01:04:19

Hang on, I just downloaded no. 5 on iPlayer, where was the final episode aired? I am confused.

HellonHeels Sun 11-Aug-13 08:21:26

Hmmm much as I want to think the Creepy copper is involved, my current thought is that it's Johnno who is father of Tui's baby and that's why he turned up in his boat to get Robin away.

Still not clear why Robin started an affair with him. Surely every man in the vicinity is a suspect as a child abuser?

Treaguez Sun 11-Aug-13 08:27:04

I feel like there can only be one ending to it, and to be honest am mainly looking forward to getting it over and done with, it's too bloody upsetting grin

dontputaringonit Sun 11-Aug-13 11:36:52

EcoRi - I downloaded it online. But wait for next week!

And yes we wanted it over and done with too.

rootypig Sun 11-Aug-13 11:58:24

Aaah dontputaringonit DH and I were scratching our heads for AGES about the no of episodes! Watched the last one last night but will watch the Beeb version next week too. Having seen it all now, I love it more. The most compelling thing on TV for a good long while.

sparklesandbling Sun 11-Aug-13 13:00:10

well without watching the last episode I am guessing that tui said no one because she was unconscious and raped and so has no idea how she is pregnant.
This would tie in with the girl who got hit by the car and the photos found on the computer?

sparklesandbling Sun 11-Aug-13 13:00:55

I think this programme was a slow started but is getting better with each episode!

creamteas Sun 11-Aug-13 13:10:47

sparkles My theory is that Al is the organizer of a child trafficking ring fronted by the cafe for teens in trouble.

rootypig Sun 11-Aug-13 14:52:43

eco someone else explained it aired as 7 episodes with ads; the BBC has recut to 6

rootypig Sun 11-Aug-13 14:53:37

Ugh posted too soon. The 7 are available on Netflix and elsewhere online

colleysmill Sun 11-Aug-13 15:09:04

We've really enjoyed this series - weirdly memorizing!

dh and I think they are half siblings (and that's why Matt was paying for robin's mums house) and Al is up to his neck in cover ups.

I think Al also drugged robin when she got drunk at his place - more so now Jamie had rihiponal in last nights episode.

But poor Jamie sad

ButThereAgain Sun 11-Aug-13 15:25:13

I started to enjoy this series from episode three onwards, which is how long it took me to realise that Robyn is the centre of gravity in the story. As a massive fan of The Piano, I was so over-excited about the Holly Hunter--Jane Campion pair-up in this programme that I stuck resolutely to the wrong idea that Holly Hunter and the women's camp were the story's centre, and so far that part of the story has just been clunky comedy with meanings that I haven't yet penetrated.

But (accent problems aside) the woman playing Robyn has been completely brilliant, and Robyn's story is so mesmerising. Her rape is horrific, her energy and anger and violence are so gratifying and also so sad. Her relationships with Johnno and Al are intriguing. She is so believable both in her fearsome competence and in her mental disintegration and vulnerability.

googlyeyes Sun 11-Aug-13 18:51:06

Can't see Top of the Lakes on Netflix!

rootypig Sun 11-Aug-13 20:12:19

Hmm I read that it was on there googly. Maybe just in US. You can get it on tubeplus.me, free and presumably illegal

Beveridge Sun 11-Aug-13 20:17:29

To download or not to download...what a moral dilemma! Have watched ep1-5 over the last 3 nights, am restraining myself so I can watch it on my proper telly next weekend.

I disagree that Robin drinking at her line managers house shows a lack of professionalism. There are many stressful jobs where close working relationships are cemented in the pub, etc. I do think she ended up drinking a bit more than she intended (she was driving after all) but this was due to the direction the conversation took and what that stirred up for her.

But the reason she passed out I think was because she had been drugged, hence her surprise/shock afterwards. Al had put her clothes through the wash, he made sure he very quickly took her car keys off her - he's clearly done this before.

googlyeyes Sun 11-Aug-13 20:40:29

Thanks Rooty grin

papalazaru Sun 11-Aug-13 22:47:36

I think Al must have drugged her at his place and probably has incriminating photos of her - which is why he deliberately mentioned that he was a gentleman that night.
I agree the coffee shop is a front for something muchuch worse..... Will johnno really turn out to be bad??
But pleeeeease would they get their continuity right. It drives me nuts and makes things much more confusing than they need to be.

Janek Mon 12-Aug-13 08:04:38

What do you mean papalazaru?

Tabby1963 Mon 12-Aug-13 08:17:32

I am glad that I was not the only one very upset about Jamie's death. I cried for a while about that, tearing up now. Not sure why, but he was so brave and protective of Tui, not speaking even when being humiliated in the police station. A true friend.

Interestingly, I would have been upset if it had have been Tui who had fallen from the cliff, but not as much as it being Jamie.

Rohypnol is the drug used to subdue these girls that are being used in the sex parties featured in the photos. No wonder Tui doesn't know how 'it got in there'. Is it the last part next week, or the week after. I can't wait to see Matt get his comeuppance!

papalazaru Mon 12-Aug-13 08:23:18

About the continuity Janek?
Well - this makes me look like a right geek but last night's one was this:- robin comes home from mother's funeral and has bath, presuming this is in the afternoon sometime. While in bed with Johnno gets phone call about Jamie. Goes to police station. Interrogation room clock reads 9.25 - he must be there a while so when she drives him home it's dusk, by the time they get home it's pitch black. So we keep being told its winter in which case it would be dark by 4/5pm. It's all wrong - and yes I know I should get out more wink. It also seems to have been winter now for the whole of Tui's known pregnancy - 7 months!
My latest thought is that johnno was somehow complicit in the rape and that is why Matt hates him. Remember that Matt and Al were part of the vigilante group who 'punished' the rapists? They must have been protecting someone from the police otherwise it should have gone to court shouldn't it. I wonder if Matt paid off Robin's mum to get her to leave just like he tried to pay off Jamie's ..... And then continued to pay for her house etc so she'd stay quiet.....

susiedaisy Mon 12-Aug-13 08:47:42

I also find the jumping from daylight to dark etc confusing I often have no idea of the time scale involved, and I still have no clue as to what relevance the hippy women by the lake have in the storyline at all??? Can someone enlightened me!?!?smile

Lagoonablue Mon 12-Aug-13 09:36:42

The women are a contrast to the macho and patriarchy of the town I think. The programme is more esoteric than it first seemed, less formulaic mystery.

dontputaringonit Mon 12-Aug-13 09:41:56

Papa- re winter lasting 7 months. We only found out she was preg at about 5 months gone.

Janek Mon 12-Aug-13 10:13:59

I think i know what you mean papa, i think i may have noticed too, but without realising iyswim. There is also a really weird passage of time, i was surprised when it was suddenly the due date, but i guess that explains why the mother died so quickly... (ie she didn't).

Merguez Mon 12-Aug-13 21:01:37

I've been really enjoying this series and can't wait for the last episode to see how it all pans out. Anyone else read any significance into Matt Mitcham's impotence during his brief fling with the bonkers woman from the camp by the lake? Implying that he couldn't have fathered Tui's child ...

creamteas Mon 12-Aug-13 21:25:37

I think that there is an outside chance that Matt will end up looking not such a villain in the end.

It was mentioned that he was involved in punishing Robyn's rapists, so perhaps he is an anti-sexual abuse drug dealer??

If so perhaps he will end up supporting her against Al in the end......

Treaguez Mon 12-Aug-13 22:33:20

Whatever the ending is, it's bloody intriguing. That's a triumph in itself.
I think the women's camp is there to remind us that the men are the shits, in quite a whimsical way confused
I watched the documentary but am absolutely none the wiser and indeed would like to poke both the writers with something sharp. However I love what they have created. (And hate it.)

rootypig Mon 12-Aug-13 23:06:38

I can't wait for you all to see it so we can discuss!

listenwatchreadshare Tue 13-Aug-13 19:34:04

I love the emotional aspect of this drama - it's got thrills as well, but nice to see real proper human stories, and not just your usual "detective with childcare/drink/general moodiness" problems.
I also think the presence of the women's camp serves to amplify some of the feelings eg the return of Jamie's body and the sighting of Tui. Because the women are so collectively emotional in their responses. And they are a useful foil to the Mitcham family - they are from two completely different worlds and it sort of makes it more three-dimensional and quirky that they have to interact.
I am really enjoying this - intriguing is exactly the word for it, Treaguez!

sparklesandbling Tue 13-Aug-13 20:11:55

Saturday is tooooo far away! sad

anonacfr Tue 13-Aug-13 22:52:42

My god I sobbed when Jamie died. He was lovely.

When Matt showed up to the wake/funeral... angry I am so glad Jamie's mother told him where to go. He did look rather shaken.

Peter Mullan is mesmerising. So loathsome and yet compelling as a character. I'm still not sure whether or not he was abusing Tui. Isn't that was his son said he saw when they had the talk?

MustTidyUpMustTidyUp Tue 13-Aug-13 23:27:58

Have caught up on iplayer. Loving this. I'm hooked and can't wait for the finale!

KidleysDiddleye Wed 14-Aug-13 12:03:35

Me too - very depressing but somehow so good.
I didn't like the idea of Robin shooting herself, only hinted at in the preview scenes for next week, and I'm sure it won't happen, but I was really upset at the idea.

papalazaru Wed 14-Aug-13 12:16:43

That scene of Simone desperately trying to carry her boy from the boat still makes me tear up even thinking about it. And when she told Matt where to go I thought it was brilliant. I agree he looked so stunned at her reaction - like he never thought that could happen. He's such a messed up malevolent character I'm sort of hoping he gets redeemed somehow....
I don't think Robin shoots herself but she seems to be filming her reflection - didn't GJ say something like 'you have to die to yourself' ???
Looking forward to Saturday too!

NaiceHamIsNaice Sat 17-Aug-13 19:41:38

Really looking forward to it tonight.
Need a stiff drink beforehand though!

susiedaisy Sat 17-Aug-13 22:00:56

Have it on record as kids havin sleep over so will watch it tomorrow

toastandmarmiterocks Sat 17-Aug-13 22:16:23

Thoroughly confused!!

MustTidyUpMustTidyUp Sat 17-Aug-13 22:16:41

Excellent.

NaiceHamIsNaice Sat 17-Aug-13 22:17:54

Amazing how they managed to get the denouement over in that one scene. Far better than showing what was going on.
<trying not to give away the ending!>

waikikamookau Sat 17-Aug-13 22:26:19

veyr good. I think I have made my mind up
are we not allowed to disucss yet??

toastandmarmiterocks Sat 17-Aug-13 22:40:52

Well without giving anything away I think they rushed the final episode. A major event (Matt) seemed rushed and then forgotten. I have so many questions!! Can we discuss it yet??

beachesandbuckets Sat 17-Aug-13 22:46:03

Please can the post series analysis start, going to be up half the night feeding my baby and need something to keep me awake.

Were the DNA results BS made up by Al to cover himself? Cld Al be Tui's baby's father?

MustTidyUpMustTidyUp Sat 17-Aug-13 22:46:27

Can we can we??

beachesandbuckets Sat 17-Aug-13 22:48:38

It almost seems too obvious that the baby was Matts. And no evidence other than Al's DNA 'results'.

Yes last episode too rushed, wld have liked to have understood more about Matt who was a pivitol character.

partystress Sat 17-Aug-13 22:52:10

As the OP I declare post-end discussions allowed! SPOILER ALERT - don't read on if you haven't seen yet!

waikikamookau Sat 17-Aug-13 22:52:18

yeah, I think the dna results were made up to be matt's although he did behave very oddly about tui's baby in the end.

were her friends drugged or dead?
did they have graduation parties? and were drugged and forced into sex?

beachesandbuckets Sat 17-Aug-13 22:52:49

Anyone out there...?!

womma Sat 17-Aug-13 22:53:19

Bloody fab. I'm not too bothered that some bits were left floating and some didn't tie up, but it was gripping.

Don't think I've given too much away there....

toastandmarmiterocks Sat 17-Aug-13 22:54:14

Yes, more of Matt, he was a great yet loathsome character. Sorry to be thick but something clicked for Robyn when she was looking at the wall of employees in the cafe. What?

partystress Sat 17-Aug-13 22:54:40

I didn't think it was too rushed - quite liked the way death is death even when you have been such a huge figure while alive. The contrast with the reactions to and time given to Jamie's death was one of the key messages I thought. By the end, I thought it was a better series than I had thought by the end of ep 5 iyswim.

partystress Sat 17-Aug-13 22:55:55

The click in the café was that the girl who 'committed suicide by jumping in front of a car' had also been a graduate of the barista scheme and yet Al had made it seem like he had barely been aware of her.

waikikamookau Sat 17-Aug-13 22:56:28

I think the graduation ceremony clicked, with Al, and the students. imo

toastandmarmiterocks Sat 17-Aug-13 22:56:42

Oh, I believed the DNA results gullible

toastandmarmiterocks Sat 17-Aug-13 22:58:15

Thanks Partystress, I may have been a little distracted on Mumsnet for some of the series blush

toastandmarmiterocks Sat 17-Aug-13 22:58:49

Oh Al was horrible...

womma Sat 17-Aug-13 23:00:25

Oh good we can let rip. Al definitely the baby's father, and would he have fixed the DNA test for Johnno too? Not sure why though, but he obviously was a sicko and may have liked keeping the half siblings together unbeknownst to them, and a way of getting back at Robin because she spurned him?

I also think nothing really came of Matt because he didn't really have involvement in the teen trafficking ring, it was Al stealthily at the helm of all of it.

Bloody hell, my heart was in my mouth watching that final episode. I'm glad we didn't have Tui suffering too much having the baby too, that would have have floored me I think.

partystress Sat 17-Aug-13 23:01:03

I agree - he was a total sleazeball (and his mumbling meant I had to watch with subtitles...). BUT, what about him telling Johnno that Matt wasn't his father? That seemed like a good thing to do and made me doubt my previous certainty that he was behind it all. Did he have a moment of conscience or was he lying?

soimpressed Sat 17-Aug-13 23:01:09

Why did Matt take the baby? Was he planning to kill him and if so why?

beachesandbuckets Sat 17-Aug-13 23:01:25

Al. It was a slow drip. How did he afford his Lakeside (or 'top of the lake'?) mansion? Why was he giving cash to Matt? Clearly Robin was drugged, and probably raped, at his house. He said 'you want that one' or something similar to dodgy German bloke when one of the young kids was serving them in cafe. Makes my skin crawl.

partystress Sat 17-Aug-13 23:02:08

x-post womma - yuck, yes could be that was why he lied.

beachesandbuckets Sat 17-Aug-13 23:03:05

Off to sleep, look fwd to hearing more theories at 1am feed!

womma Sat 17-Aug-13 23:04:44

Maybe Matt knew who the baby's father was and taking the baby to him (Al) for some kind of show down? I don't know... I hated him shouting at that little bun and was bloody happy when growling Tui shot him!

womma Sat 17-Aug-13 23:06:10

Night beaches!

womma Sat 17-Aug-13 23:08:14

Party, Al couldn't just have been telling the truth could he?! Unless something had to come good for Robin and Johnno...we'll never know!

Just had to remind myself they're not real...

partystress Sat 17-Aug-13 23:09:17

You know back in episode 1 or 2, Matt gave Al a package on the boat? Do you think he supplied him with his Roofies and party drugs (so out of touch I have no idea what these might be called blush) - rather than it being a payoff to keep him off his back?

Why was Matt so in denial that there WAS a baby? Was he actually feeling protective of Tui or was he the father after all and Al's Baristas-for-hire scheme was totally separate?

partystress Sat 17-Aug-13 23:11:15

oops. thanks womma - getting too involved! [off to bed muttering to self 'they are just characters, they are just characters']. Will wake up with withdrawal symptoms though... When is Borgen back??

waikikamookau Sat 17-Aug-13 23:12:12

yes, and the sons said they saw Matt with Tui walking on top of him?

soimpressed Sat 17-Aug-13 23:13:44

Last week Tui said she didn't know how the baby got in there so it must have happened when she was drugged.

partystress Sat 17-Aug-13 23:18:04

Still up. Will pay for this tomorrow. I thought the walking was kind of a massage thing, rather than sexual? Didn't think the sons were the types to go in for euphemisms or not know if they'd seen them dtd. But yes, agree she was drugged and raped.

womma Sat 17-Aug-13 23:26:44

I think they cast the girl who played Tui well, she looked like the youngest in that group of girls and it made her being pregnant tremendously disturbing.

Can't quite figure out the significance of Matt's denial of the baby and his weird attitude to it

womma Sat 17-Aug-13 23:28:58

Crap phone, sorry...

...once it was born though. Could he just not really handle the fact that he'd failed her as a parent? Also, he was impotent wasn't he? And I don't get the sighting of Tui walk

womma Sat 17-Aug-13 23:31:41

So sorry for my weird posts!

...sighting of Tui walking on Matt when he was passed
out. Maybe it's just a red herring, but it was certainly a bizarre environment for an adolescent girl to live in wasn't it?

womma Sat 17-Aug-13 23:32:33

Right, need to switch brain off now! Night all x

valiumredhead Sat 17-Aug-13 23:44:30

Bloody sky plus cut out again right at the end! Robin was washing something in the lake WHAT HAPPENED PLEASE?shock sad

beachesandbuckets Sun 18-Aug-13 01:23:34

Not sure what was being washed in lake, sorry!

I suspect Matt knew about child abuse ring (from suppling Al with the drugs, his status of being the king pin of the town) but was not directly involved. Then Tui's pregnancy makes him realise Tui had been abused, hence his weirdness about removing and possibly getting rid of her baby. Also could explain him drowning Bob Pratt without remorse as he knew he was involved in abuse ring, always seemed to be an extreme reaction to a property deal that he didn't like.

Janek Sun 18-Aug-13 07:37:15

His mother was buried on that land. That's why he wanted it and didn't want anyone else to have it. Although quite why he couldn't have it, but the crazy, meditating ladies could is not clear.

NaiceHamIsNaice Sun 18-Aug-13 07:51:41

I don't think Matt could have known about the drugging-and-raping kids scene. For all he was an utter shitbag, he was not into that at all, and especially not if it involved his daughter: remember he was part of the posse who got the men who raped Robin.

Also, remember the woman from Paradise who had a fling with him, and he confessed his impotence? It was a long-term thing, I got the impression. He wasn't Tui's baby's father; I bet it was just some random sleaze bag who'd been buying services from Al.

By the end he'd gone absolutely fucking nuts, I think he took the baby just not knowing what was going on or what he was going to do with him.

I wondered if they put the rather offhand bit in about Matt not being Jonno's father because we still can't really cope with the idea of incest as an audience, or to give the impression that Jonno, Robin and the baby would end up together as a family, or what...? It was pretty unreliable coming from Al. (I cheered when she shut the door on him trying to get in, btw. She didn't even hesitate.)

NaiceHamIsNaice Sun 18-Aug-13 07:54:10

Janek, the crazy ladies (the one with the money, anyway) bought the land really fast: they wanted it because GJ had decided that's where they should be - pin in the map - and the owner, Bob wotsit who was drowned at the beginning, wanted shot of it because he knew Matt was going to be after him very soon and he was selling up and going to move to be with his wife.
They offered him double what Matt had offered so he took it and was about to run, but Matt found out and killed him.

valiumredhead Sun 18-Aug-13 08:05:27

But how did it end please? Robin was washing something...then what?

alpinemeadow Sun 18-Aug-13 08:07:03

Was bob leaving anyway because of matt, or was it something to do with the al ring - he'd told his wife he'd discovered something terrible and would have to leave, didn't he? But what had he found out?

Not sure why the lab gave the johnno/robin test result to al to pass on - it was nothing to do with al! In real life they'd have ordered the test by themselves, not through al, surelY?!

alpinemeadow Sun 18-Aug-13 08:10:40

Valium, holly hunter was leaving the camp, and tui went after her to say 'i don't want you to go'. Holly hunter replied 'you have a new teacher now, listen to him' (think at that point baby cried so you knew who hh meant, but i may be misremembering.) and then - it ended.

valiumredhead Sun 18-Aug-13 08:41:23

Thanks alpinegrin

Wrt DNA testing, the police ordered them because of the search, all men were tested in the town, remember the road block?

clangermum Sun 18-Aug-13 12:13:53

Photos of abuse ring were found on bob's computer though, so I presumed he was involved. Maybe it was finding out that Tui was involved so he thought Matt would seek vengeance, hence selling the land and wanting to get out

clangermum Sun 18-Aug-13 13:03:37

And on a previous comment, robin's mum was said to be horrified when jonno arrived at the door as robin's prom date. I suppose she would have moved away soon after the rape so the mum thought there was no chance of them seeing each other.

Also explains why Matt may have been so keen to punish robin's attackers, knowing she was his daughter

susiedaisy Sun 18-Aug-13 14:02:23

Well that's that then, what a strange but compelling story, think I quite enjoyed it come the end although it dealt with some disturbing issueshmm

Nancy66 Sun 18-Aug-13 14:17:03

My take is that Matt supplied the drugs that drugged the teens - so all were complicit.

rootypig Sun 18-Aug-13 15:10:54

Woohoo theories!

beaches / clanger I don't think Pratt was involved in the abuse ring - his estranged wife said he'd seen something appalling in the town, presumably the abuse, and that's why he sold in a hurry to Bunny, to get out. She offered twice as much as Matt was gong to pay. Maybe Bob had taken the pictures as evidence, to cover himself? Or seen the pictures onlin and recognised the kids?

alpine presumably the DNA testing was a criminal matter, to determine Tui's rapist. Though it does seem pretty casual for the police chief to just turn up with results. I think the results could have been forged or not.....remember the pathologist saying that there was no trace of semen in April's vagina, implying the gang was careful. And surely Campion wants us to believe that Matt really isn't Jonno's father, so he and Robin can have their happy ending?

I wondered whether Matt was abusing Tui separately from the ring...the scene with the sons accusing him was interesting, and his bizarre reaction to Tui's disppearal - first total indifference, then determined to get her back, almost like a lover. But then he was so weird about his mother, why not his daughter. I think Matt's drug operation was to make the money to buy Paradise, I don't know if he knew about the abuse ring. The money / drugs passing between him and Al could have been for Al to look the other way on the drug operation. In a weird way, I think Matt had some bizarre moral code. His reaction to Jamie's mother seemed like genuine dismay, and his reaction to his son's accusations true outrage. impressed I think you're right, that Robin's theory about 'no one' was right.... And I think that it was when she shared that with Al that he targeted her. I think he roofied her (not sure if he raped her, in a weird way I think he wanted her properly, and his marriage proposal was genuine) then accused her of embarrassing herself to throw her off the scent, make her unsure of herself.

But I really like the ambiguity we're left with. To me, Campion makes the entire community complicit. Even Jonno in Robin's rape.

Favourite moments: Robin stabbing Sarge, Tui shooting Matt and Jonno (the shooting of Jonno I think was interesting, he was ostensibly innocent but Campion makes no apology for it in later scenes), Robin shooting Al. Yeah! I loved that the women got their own revenge, and bloodied their hands.

The only thing I didn't like, was the scene with Bunny's daughter playing guitar in the last episode. It just jarred with the nuance of the storyline I thought.

Sorry, essay! blush I am going to watch it all again! I think the way Campion builds it all up is masterful.

rootypig Sun 18-Aug-13 15:13:00

Naiceham good post, that's what I was trying to say! blush

NaiceHamIsNaice Sun 18-Aug-13 16:36:36

Rooty smile
Yes it was interesting that it was the women who did all the hurting/killing/retribution at the end.

I think Campion wanted Jonno shot because it left the girl/woman to close the scene. Robin didn't even go to him, did you notice? Her lover has been shot and she didn't flinch. Interesting.

Ditto when Robin leaves him with the baby to go after Al. Normally the man would find a way to tag along and it would be written so that he helps to save the woman somehow.

The men (in the main, and excepting Jamie of course) are shown to be nothing but worthless, lying, deceitful, needy, abusive, criminal shits, with the exception of Jonno, and even he doesn't get to be the hero.

I wouldn't want to live in a world where that's true (although some women do live with shitheads like that all the time) but it is really something to see that on mainstream TV. No concessions made to male heroism whatsoever.

NaiceHamIsNaice Sun 18-Aug-13 16:41:35

I do have one small issue though.
No way could person after person be drugged and raped in that way without their knowledge, wake up from it and do/say nothing.
All the kids going willingly to Al's house? They would all have stories to tell of waking up there after falling asleep: that in itself is totally weird and would have been talked about.

valiumredhead Sun 18-Aug-13 17:24:05

Iirc that drug causes memory loss so what would they know? They are young and inexperienced,Tui didn't even know how a baby would get out of her, she wouldn't be thinking 'hang on a moment I feel a bit sore/smelly etc,I might have been raped.'

NaiceHamIsNaice Sun 18-Aug-13 18:28:55

But they would wake up somewhere they didn't remember going to sleep.
At Al's place? Outside? He couldn't just drop them home, asleep, and get them into their beds.

valiumredhead Sun 18-Aug-13 18:48:42

The whole story was ridiculous, Robin's character was so unbelievable it was almost nonsensegrin

rootypig Sun 18-Aug-13 19:43:00

naice I thought the kids did seem traumatised though, they might have known - Campion makes Jamie (and others?) literally mute - they felt powerless or were too damaged to say anything-?

VR I thought the whole thing was reminiscent of what Margaret Atwood calls speculative fiction. Not fully grounded in reality, but terrifyingly real.

Merguez Sun 18-Aug-13 22:39:04

At the end Robin was washing the blood out of her top - symbolic.

Matt was going to kill the baby because he knew it was his and he would be implicated by the DNA. He also wanted Tui to stay a child.

The men in Al's house were making porn films with the drugged girls - that's probably where Al got most of his money from.

Thought it was very good and well done. Elisabeth Moss brilliantly cast - right combination of toughness and vulnerability. Rather like her role in Mad Men.

valiumredhead Sun 18-Aug-13 23:01:24

I think the fact Matt couldn't get it up without drugs showed the baby want his as he want abusing her.

womma Sun 18-Aug-13 23:12:44

Did anyone think the scene with Matt and Anita taking Ecstasy in the woods was hilarious? I nearly fell off the sofa.

valiumredhead Mon 19-Aug-13 00:36:10

The naked romp with johnno and Robin was even worse, that had to win the award got most awkward unbelievable love seen ever!

valiumredhead Mon 19-Aug-13 00:36:31

For not got

Merguez Mon 19-Aug-13 10:10:56

I have revised my opinion and think that Matt definitely was not the father of the baby. DNA test for Jonno deliberately ambiguous.

One thing is bothering me - we met Tui's mother in an early episode, but haven't seen her since. Surely she would have got involved in the final stages of the search for her daughter, and wanted to see her grandchild? Or is there a detail that I missed/forgot about?

MostlyLovingLurchers Mon 19-Aug-13 10:16:36

I was confused about the dna. When Matt was stopped at the roadblock he refused to give a sample, so how do they know who he fathered? Or did they take a sample posthumously and I missed it?

Don't know what I think about it all to be honest. It was compelling and I had to keep watching, and it has stayed with me now that it has finished, but i'm not sure I could say I enjoyed it.

rootypig Mon 19-Aug-13 10:56:55

Merguez interesting re Jonno's DNA, when Robin found out she was Matt's child she seemed willing to carry on their relationship regardless ("hello, brother"). It seemed from the scene with her that Tui's mother was totally cut out, but then I don't think Campion wanted to make room for any women on the inside, iyswim, or particularly wanted to explore that part of the story

The ecstasy scene was so funny womma! especially to those who have taken it

I missed the roadblock scene mostlyLoving, I wonder if that's what should tip us into understanding Al falsified the DNA, along with Matt's ED, though that is ambiguous, since he says he can get it up with drugs...

valiumredhead Mon 19-Aug-13 11:25:39

I think the fact we didn't see the mother much showed just how neglected Tui was in general and there for an easy target.

MostlyLovingLurchers Mon 19-Aug-13 12:36:13

Yes - i think that a combination of Matt's failure to provide a sample, his impotency and Al's need to cover his tracks all leads us to believe that the dna results were fake, and that Matt was not the father of Tui's baby, though of course enough room is left for it still to be possible. I don't think that Johnno was Matt's son though. At one point (I think when Johnno rescued Robin from the boat) Matt said to him 'you are no son of mine'. I wondered at the time if this had greater significance.

Merguez Mon 19-Aug-13 20:23:14

But the fact that Matt refused to produce a sample for DNA isn't relevant - they could have taken the DNA from his dead body.

But I do think the audience was supposed to infer that the DNA results were faked, and Al was the real father of the baby.

Deleted series from recorder as soon as I finished watching it (didn't want dc finding it) and now wish I hadn't because I'dlike to watch it all over again to see if it makes more sense.

Some good comments on Guardian blog too ...

Oblomov Fri 23-Aug-13 08:15:11

Finally watched the last 2 episodes. Feel very odd. We all knew Al was a baddie, but some things just don't add up. Assuming they aren't supposed to.
Not even sure if I enjoyed it.

Asheth Fri 23-Aug-13 09:40:04

I've just caught up on the last two episodes as well. I think Matt was the father of Tui's baby and the test results were correct. His denial that Tui could possibly be pregnant and his shock when he saw the baby was strange and maybe sometimes he just couldn't face what he'd done to his daughter and preferred to live in denial.

His grovelling and punishing himself at his mothers grave was never explained unless he had done something really terrible. So at the times he did face what he'd done he truly hated himself. Maybe the guilt also caused his impotence.

Assuming Al was getting the drugs from Matt would he really use them on Matt's daughter? At the end when the other children were downstairs being abused, Tui was left upstairs asleep on the sofa. Perhaps even with Matt dead Al didn't go back on that arrangement.

I do think Al was brilliantly portrayed. For most of the time he was charming and likeable. Then you got the glimpses that he wasn't honest. But right to the end I thought he was just weakly turning a blind eye to the corruption that existed in the community. A bad cop, but not totally a bad man. I suppose it shows how easily evil can be disguised.

rootypig Fri 23-Aug-13 17:54:18

I wondered about Tui being left asleep upstairs on the sofa. But that could be explained by the fact she'd just had a child, not exactly child porn material for a while sad

MostlyLovingLurchers Fri 23-Aug-13 19:30:03

Maybe it was because Tui wasn't meant to be there? The others had been chosen by Al's 'clients' (when in the café), whereas Tui decided to go along with her friends after Al visited the women's camp with the other kids in the car.

clangermum Fri 23-Aug-13 19:37:30

I feel I want to watch it again to pay more attention to all the cafe scenes

blueberryupsidedown Sun 25-Aug-13 17:45:15

I am fuming. I was in the process of watching all the Top of the Lakes on bbc iplayer (I was up to episode 4) but now they have taken all the programs off and only available to purchase on DVD!!! Grrrrr..... I will be lost won't I? The next episode is what, episode 6?

rootypig Sun 25-Aug-13 17:47:22

Www.tubeplus.me - yes it's in 7 episodes but you'll be able to find where you were.

blueberryupsidedown Sun 25-Aug-13 18:58:14

Thanks SO much!

rootypig Sun 25-Aug-13 19:26:09

grin you're welcome

Lots of good stuff on that site though of course never use myself as is probably illegal hmm

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