Dr Who has really gone off, hasnt it?

(356 Posts)
Snog Sat 27-Apr-13 19:23:13

Dr Who used to be genius...it`s gone really downhill now hasn't it?

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sat 27-Apr-13 19:23:53

ah, don't worry. next week's is v good.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sat 27-Apr-13 19:24:05

(i am a time traveller)

Greydog Sat 27-Apr-13 19:27:16

todays story was the time traveller equivalent of Bobby Ewing in the shower!

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sat 27-Apr-13 19:28:43

it was GARBAGE, wasn't it?

TeamEdward Sat 27-Apr-13 19:28:49

Rubbish, wasn't it?
I am really cheesed off with now. Took Ds to the Dr Who Experience in Cardiff in January and we were really hyped up for this new series, but it is pants.

ClaraOswald Sat 27-Apr-13 19:33:11

This was definitely a bottle show, of sorts.

Bring back Russell T Davies I say.

carriedawayannie Sat 27-Apr-13 19:39:31

Best dr who actor in ages - love Matt Smith.

Worst writing in ages sad

ouryve Sat 27-Apr-13 19:41:58

You only just noticed?

I thought last series that it's really not being written for a home audience, anymore. It's being made to be sold and is about on a par with typical CBBC drama in terms of plot and characters.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sat 27-Apr-13 20:43:35

honestly, hang in there until next week. i really enjoyed that one.

fancyanother Sat 27-Apr-13 21:24:17

See, I really enjoyed that, and I really haven't enjoyed the last few episodes at all. I found it really gripping and full of suspense! I'm genuinely surprised no ne else seemed to like it.

ImaHexGirl Sat 27-Apr-13 21:35:30

I loved last week's after feeling let down by the preceding ones. Was a bit disappointed by tonight hmm Am really hoping for that nail biting/can't wait/ most exciting event of your week feeling and I don't know if I can muster that up yet.

I love Matt Smith and I like Clara's character but I just can't see where it is going yet?

I really hope next week is a return to form. I'm counting on it!

Snog Sat 27-Apr-13 21:36:12

I keep wanting the series to pick up but finally realised that the writing is crap and matt smith isn't much cop either.
Bring back Russell & David, those were the days!!!

Davros Sun 28-Apr-13 08:25:29

It's not just me then. Hated last night's. can't bear Matt Smith ( gurning ham as I have said on MN before) and Clara is just annoying, worse than early Amy.

mummytime Sun 28-Apr-13 08:45:18

I liked it! Sorry.
It was much more like olden days Dr Who. I also think it wasn't a whole rewrite of the day at the end, the guys on the salvage vessel had changed. Just like with Rory having memories of being a centurion for centuries, I wonder if Clara has memories of the day that never was?

Actually my biggest mystery is "How did the Doctor get out of the TARDIS? especially as we see him trapped under machinery through the bionic eyes, just befor."

I thought last nights episode was the best so far this series. Not a great compliment seeing that the writing has been dismal.

Next episode looks promising.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sun 28-Apr-13 10:01:20

I'm hoping assuming something mega is about to be revealed and that we are suffering from new character intro syndrome and also from a shadow cast by the waiting for the 50th. and that this is stifling writing just now.

However I realise this is a bit straw cutchy

Clawdy Sun 28-Apr-13 10:21:49

Yes,why does Matt Smith do that unattractive gurning?it's very distracting and annoying. Bring back Chris Eccleston!smile

Umlauf Sun 28-Apr-13 10:23:59

Yes I agree completely. Its been really disappointing, and I don't think its new character syndrome as we are enough episodes in now. They just don't seem to be doing much. Last weeks was promising, but ended ridiculously, and the doctor himself seems to have changed a lot in his characterisation.

I find it hard to blame the change of writing either, as Moffat has written some of my favourite episodes (Blink, the library ones).

Hopefully you're right shipwrecked and itll all come bouncing back for the anniversary.

I love Matt and Jenna, but the stories this series have been utter pants.

peeriebear Sun 28-Apr-13 18:07:27

I liked last week's with the ghost who wasn't a ghost. The submarine one was Dull with a capital Zzzz. Yesterday's didn't grip me at all.
It seems like a different programme to the brilliant storylines David Tennant used to get. Real characters like Wilfred Mott and the Master, decent one-episode adventures like Gridlock where the city's inhabitants were permanently trapped on the subterranean motorway to keep them alive. And Are you my mummy?
The new stories seem more aimed at children tbh. None of the grand themes and intense storylines we were spoiled with with CE and DT.

musickeepsmesane Sun 28-Apr-13 18:11:30

It was complete rubbish. Last nights was the worst I have seen. Poor, poor storyline

bulletproofgerbil Sun 28-Apr-13 18:17:53

Totally agree. I hate everything about it - Matt Smith, Gemma Louise Coleman, the Tardis, the writing. I've watched Dr Who for around 46 years and there have been some Doctors I've just not liked one bit (Sylvester McCoy, Christopher Eccleston)- but even if I've really not liked them, the writing has still made them watchable. I'm so disappointed in just about every way at the moment though. It's just a mess imo sad

Trill Sun 28-Apr-13 18:21:26

ZZZZ indeed. DP will no longer watch it with me.

It seems like the writing is aimed at children, but some of the visual content is too scary for children IMO. I have lost interest to be honest. I disliked Amy intensely by the end and not sure yet about Clara. Bring back Donna and DT.

Davros Sun 28-Apr-13 18:49:32

Maybe they have got confused about how appealing to children to make it since the Sarah Jane Adventures had to end? The substitute Aliens vs Monsters was not a patch on SJA. Although I suppose DW is supposed to be for kids somewhat?

Bluebell99 Sun 28-Apr-13 18:54:22

The humour has gone. In the previous series there were really funny moments with Donna, and Amy and Rory and Rose. This series hasn't been funny at all.

ladymalfoy Sun 28-Apr-13 20:05:52

As a megafan I loved the rooms in the Tardis. Terence Dicks hinted at all those rooms in the novels bases on the TV stories. The Doctor finally went mental trying to look after his companion. Hints about the history of Gallifrey and although there were a couple of ripoffs from Harry Potter I really enjoyed it. Bullying ,exploitation,lies,promises almost broken. The 50th may not be a fan fest if rumours are to be believed but they have included nods to the classic series so far. And I finally believe Matt Smith's Doctor would really fuck over the bad guys.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sun 28-Apr-13 21:13:33

I am fairly sure I can remember an infinate tardis rooms plot line from Tom Baker days but its a very vague memory!

CounselorTroi Sun 28-Apr-13 21:52:33

I loved Donna. Bring back Donna. And DT.

Davros Mon 29-Apr-13 07:16:27

Even among the great episodes there have always been pot boilers. E.G. What was that one set on a space ship with Cindy off Eastenders and lots of running around? I used to think Midnight was a bit of a pot boiler but its much better than this week's. also, I have stopped paying attention which doesn't help with "getting it".

RustyBear Mon 29-Apr-13 07:37:53

You may be thinking of Logopolis, Shipwrecked - Tegan's first episode. The Doctor had parked the TARDIS around a real Police Box in order to measure it so he could fix the Chameleon circuit, and Tegan got into it by mistake and got lost wandering round endless corridors, then ended up being 'hijacked' when the TARDIS dematerialised.

Or it could have been Invasion of Time, which featured a chase with the Sontarans through the interior of the TARDIS, which at that time included a large number (but not a great variety) of industrial staircases, and a swimming pool. This was largely due to a budget more appropriate to a chimpanzee's tea party, and the BBC strike which meant they had to hastily arrange location filming at any place they could find.

Try watching that one, and you might find this season suddenly more appealing...

Quenelle Mon 29-Apr-13 10:09:19

I think the Clara Oswald character could be so brilliant but the writing is letting them down.

I thought she was going to be this super intelligent companion who was able to challenge the Doctor on a few things and be a bit more independent in thought, rather than just being 'feisty' hmm when cornered by monsters. Sadly not.

Her character is very one-dimensional right now and this 'who are you?' thing is not gripping me, they need to tantalise with some clues to maintain my interest, or make the clues less subtle if I'm just missing them!

Matt Smith is an excellent Doctor. What a shame he's being let down by the stories. He is a young Johnny Ball though. No question.

Quenelle Mon 29-Apr-13 10:21:22

DH and I both loved the episodes Steven Moffat used to write in the RTD days. Blink, the Madame Pompadour one, the ones in the library are some of my all-time favourites.

He most definitely wrote for children then: choosing enemies that played on timeless childhood fears, the scary thing under the bed, immobile things coming to life when you're not looking at them, the dark! <shudder> And there have been hints of this since he took over, the crack in a bedroom wall...?

This is what classic Doctor Who should be: proper scary to make a ten year old watch from behind the sofa.

Perhaps he concentrates too much on the story arc now he's in charge of the whole series, and the individual stories are suffering as a result.

BornInACrossFireHurricane Mon 29-Apr-13 10:50:24

I want DT and rose back


sensesworkingovertime Mon 29-Apr-13 16:56:13

At the risk of sounded like a boring old fart, the thing that annoys me the most is the top gear constant pace. Do they think we will get bored if things slow down a little? And can't be just have normal conversations instead of that constant wise-cracking humour, it's good in small doses, not ALL the time.

marjproops Mon 29-Apr-13 17:11:45

We love Matt Smith in the Proops household!

stories getting better as series goes on methinks.

I like the olde stylee touch it seems to have atm, but maybe thats the prob.

these days every single prog has to have the best fx and explosions and maybe its trying to harness it in a tad?

wintera Mon 29-Apr-13 17:20:35

Last time I was on a Doctor Who thread on Mumsnet people were saying they'd had enough of RTD and couldn't wait for S M to take over. Now people seem to want him back again!

bulletproofgerbil Mon 29-Apr-13 18:40:54

I thought Steven Moffat's writing was brilliant Quenelle. I agree that a lot of his stories centred on childhood fears. I bet there is a whole generation of kids growing up scared of statues. I remember being scared of mannequins in shops as a kid from watching Dr Who. His plots were so clever and deep and could be enjoyed by adults. That is the essence of Dr Who IMO - relevant and enjoyable for the whole family. Right now, I'm not sure how many people are finding it all that great.

I agree that Matt Smith is great, it's the stories letting him down. Still, DS1 is enjoying it!

Rolf Tue 30-Apr-13 12:43:11

I liked the most recent episode. Loved seeing more of the Tardis, loved the hint of retro rickety sets, loved how low-tech the monster/Clara looked until the end of the episode. I'm enjoying the mystery about Clara Oswald, I like Matt Smith apart from when he does that twirling move (I find it a bit "I'm Wacky, Me"). I like seeing how he stakes his loyalties- he's more of a military thinker than DT who towards the end got a bit mad wizardy.

Loved the haunted house story, especially as it started off being a scenario to have nightmares about and ended up with a science fiction rationale to it.

I didn't like the Master storylines much - found it all rushed, showy offy, came across as though it was thought up at a shouty dinner party.

Badgerwife Tue 30-Apr-13 21:46:18

See I like Matt Smith's Doctor (not as much as I liked DT's but that's coz I could eat DT for breakfast) and Clara but I agree with everyone who says that they are let down by increasingly poor writing and the stories are nowhere near as gripping as they used to be. It seems like they are trying to cram in an entire film-sized plot into a 45 mins show every single week so the pace is insane, they all have to talk really fast to get all the content and explanation about what the hell is going on and run around like ants, and then fob you off with a rushed often inexplicable ending because again they don't have time to show you any of it.

Snog Tue 30-Apr-13 21:46:45

Quenelle Madame Pompadour ways makes me cry...brilliant!
Loved Donna too.

SinisterBuggyMonth Tue 30-Apr-13 22:53:38

I really liked Amy blush! And Rory. Probably the only one on here.

I'm just not feeling Clara I'm affraid. She's a bit prim. I would have liked to see James Corden do a few more, him and Matt Smith were very funny together.

Davros Wed 01-May-13 09:53:59

Amy became acceptable because of Rory IMO. I loved Rory and what turned out to be their devotion to eachother.

Snapespeare Wed 01-May-13 11:32:04

I miss Rory too
I'm fed up with feisty girls. (only calling them girls because they refer to themselves as 'girls' and not women.) Clara sounds exactly like RIver sometimes, which led me to think she was River-rebooted from the library computer at first, but now I think other stuff.
I also miss RIver. I like that there's a non-conventional relationship here, but I'd like her to turn up and be a bit smug and solve everything. I don't really like how Moffat writes women - I find it a tad generic.

I think Matt Smith is utterly amazing as the Doctor and don't want him to leave. which is why I have a tattoo of him as the doctor on my calf he's a very fine actor indeed.

CalamityKate Wed 01-May-13 19:44:41

Hating this series.

Before, I never missed an episode but I've not been that bothered lately.

Crap, dull, humourless stories and can't stand Clara.

Gutted sad

StephaniePowers Wed 01-May-13 19:47:07

God yes it is quite tragic, that Clara person has NOTHING to say and if you watch closely, very little to do.
All she does is chirps out little retorts, sometimes 3 words if she's lucky. hmm
The stories have been meh and there is no hook (that I can see).

StephaniePowers Wed 01-May-13 19:49:56

'Feisty' is a word used to describe her a lot in Doctor Who.
She doesn't fit any description of feisty that I can think of.
She does fuck all except nyip nyip nyip.
I know traditionally the character is there to provide something for male viewers to look at - and for no other reason - but Rose, thingy the comedian, and even I grudgingly admit, Amy Pond (spit) had more to them than nyip nyip nyip.

CalamityKate Wed 01-May-13 19:54:58

"Chirps out little retorts"
"Nyip Nyip Nyip"


I read somewhere that the 'feisty' girls are there for Dads to look at! A lot of them drooled over Amy and her short skirts.

I liked Donna and Rose.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Wed 01-May-13 23:51:27

so i can exclusively reveal that this week's is good... next week's cyber-storyline not so much.

PariahHairy Thu 02-May-13 00:25:25

It's just impossible to actually care about the characters atm, I have tried I really have. I was warming to Amy a little bit at the start of season 6, then the whole baby/mels shite happened and I again went meh.

I still haven't gotten over the Dr getting out of the pandorica by being freed by a future version of himself hmm, I know it's some kind of crappy paradox, but it makes no sense to me.

I know the culmination of s3 was less than satisfactory, but it at least had a bit of drama with Martha traveling and spreading the myth of the Dr etc.

The arcs and story lines since s5 have been dull, repetitive and uninspired IMO. So many times hearing disembodied voices, visiting people at a younger age, blah blah blah.

I don't even like Dr Who now, Matt Smith is a one note gurner, I do keep watching it, but I have no idea why.

I didn't much care for "the waters of mars" when it first aired.

Watching it back now, it's a freaking masterpiece compared to the current episodes sad.

Snapespeare Thu 02-May-13 12:28:11

aitch nooooooooooo! I am so looking forwards to another Neil Gaiman episode and just read the interview in Doctor Who Magazine where he promises it will be 'proper-scary' sad

BanoffeeSplitz Thu 02-May-13 12:35:44

DD stopped watching early this series - either too dull or she's just grown out of it, not sure which.

I watched until the submarine one, didn't engage me & I haven't bothered to check out the ones since. Is it worth bothering with?

We both used to look forward to them & catch up ASAP on iPlayer. I just haven't felt the urge to do that this series.

I thought I would really like Clara - the original 'souffle girl' episode was pretty good.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Thu 02-May-13 13:45:54

it was the quippery that annoyed me on souffle girl, so am disappointed that has been turned up to 11. i do think JLC is great and impossibly beautiful, but you're only seeing flashes of character between the backchat.

Gaiman episode imho not a PATCH on his previous. (but then i think that and Blink are finest of the reboot).

We have stopped bothering with it. It is too confusing and the writing isn't up to much. I hated the way they churning out River stories - she was great as a mysterious one off character, not as an over explained regular.

We kept trying with it right up to Amy and Rory leaving. As that one finished, we all went ' Meh, who cares?'

I said to DS (9, loathes the Matt Smith series) 'Do you want to see how to really write a companion out?' and we all spent a happy evening watching the episodes where Rose/Martha/Donna left.

Brilliantly written, engaging characters, characters,lovely acting ...there was plenty of blubbing. Cos we cared about them.

Amy and Rory? <shrug>

New person? <dunno, don't watch it>

Miggsie Thu 02-May-13 14:33:58

I agree - Matt Smith looks like he is on speed most of the time and Jenna is, well, crap not a very emotive actress.

Neither of them are helped by dull storylines and bland characterisation. The haunted house one was a blatant rip off of Poltergeist - even used the line "his house is clean"!!! and when you sit there wondering if the guest star actress will deliver a baby to break the monotony you know you are not gripped.

I'm probably going to pack in watching it.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Thu 02-May-13 14:36:07

the writing out of donna was a scandal, i thought... she got ripped off big-time. i wanted her to SOMEHOW be reintroduced to the guy who was beamed off the library. that would have warmed my cockles.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Thu 02-May-13 14:37:03

btw re the haunted house.

who wrote HELP ME on the wall? ('the viewer' is not an acceptable answer)

Poor Donna. She went back to her world of Friday night outs and celeb mags. So sad.

CalamityKate Thu 02-May-13 14:51:32

Yeah but she ended up getting married and having a winning lottery ticket so its not all bad.

Donna and Rose were my favourites. I blubbed when they both left.

I couldn't stand Martha. Well actually the character could have been good but I just thought FA was awful in it. Terrible actress.

teejwood Thu 02-May-13 15:07:48

We're still watching, but there aren't as many saucer-eyes of excitement as there used to be at the end of each episode.

I'm swayed by the argument that Moffat has had an arc in place since the start of series 5. I want to believe it, because I want us to have an explanation for all the loose ends and inconsistencies over the past couple of years. At the same time, I feel like everything has been directed towards the denouement of this series and possibly even the 50th anniversary at the expense of making sure every ep in the meantime is as good as it could be. I fundamentally don't understand why we couldn't have had some 2-parters to let some of the plots and characters "breathe" more, because too much is too rushed. Some of the concepts are really enjoyable, but there is no depth because there is not enough time for them to develop. And I get the feeling sometimes that the writer would have gone with a different resolution if they had not had to crowbar-in references to the series arc (e.g. power of songs, power of love, importance of family in this series). We don't get the chance to engage fully with the plot or characters and the payoff is too rushed/bodged to really satisfy.

Eg the fangirl in me loved seeing more of the TARDIS last week, but the speedy "Big Friendly Button" resolution, not so much.

So there is an argument that the series would be better with more, not less Doctor Who - more time so certain stories could be fully explored in the way in which the writer intended. The danger, of course, is that more time/episodes could further expose problems with Moffat's stewardship of the show, if that is what is going wrong.

Aitch I'm sorry that the Gaiman ep didn't grab you more, I was hoping we were on an upward swing towards the finale, quality-wise.

That said, unsatisfactory Doctor Who is still better than half the crud on TV....

teejwood Thu 02-May-13 15:19:42

Donna has the most tragic ending of the modern companions, that's for sure.

Rose got to keep her awareness of all she had done, her mum and dad, Doctor 10.5, and a life that was bigger than she had had before (running around the universe with a big Dalek blaster gun)

Martha got to keep her knowledge of all she had done, her family back together, qualified as a doctor, worked and rapidly promoted in UNIT, married to Mickey and continuing to fight the baddies.

Amy and Rory had their awareness of all they had done and they had each-other, which is what always had been important to them. They got to have a family (adopted son in NY and River dropping in now and again) and by all accounts they got to write and have their own little publishing house.

Donna ended up with a lottery win and a man who loved her, yes, but lost all the knowledge of how brave and fantastic she had been and the impact that had on her self-esteem. It was, comparatively, so cruel - but a bloody amazing story.

Re Clara - I'm hoping her current characterisation is because she isn't really a real person, not because she has been written to be so one-dimensional.

Snapespeare Thu 02-May-13 20:59:09

Absolutely agree re: Donna. Absolutely loathed her in her first 4 episodes, cried and cried when she got brain-wiped.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Thu 02-May-13 21:13:17

i'm serious about HELP ME btw. who wrote it on the wall? the space grand-daughter? she'd only just got there three seconds before and was being pursued by a melty-man.

mrsjay Thu 02-May-13 21:37:59

I havnt even watched this weeks yet and its nearly saturday again I was defeanding it on another thread saying it will pick up but it is just pants , dd is off on study leave and she has been watching the old david tennant ones much better we watched the one with The Master today and it is edge of your seat stuff, but now meh hmm

mrsjay Thu 02-May-13 21:40:37

Donna ended up with a lottery win and a man who loved her, yes, but lost all the knowledge of how brave and fantastic she had been and the impact that had on her self-esteem. It was, comparatively, so cruel - but a bloody amazing story.

Donna was the saddest story I like loads of people sobbed when she was gone it so wasn't fair why shouldnt she feel her awesomeness , I like clara just the stories are rubbish and Im not really bothered who or what she is , I prefer her to amy tbh

We watched the two episodes with the Master the other day - utter bliss. Beautifully written and all the characters were used really, really well. Even Martha's parents, who had been one dimensional, had a bit of padding.

The Master was hilariously vicious and just a wee bit camp. But with all that menace - his treatment of his wife had a nasty undercurrent. The unmentioned bruise on her face was a great touch.

And Martha had her finest moments in that one too.

mrsjay Thu 02-May-13 21:54:01

John simm was brilliant as the master grin it was just a brilliant storyline

mrsjay Thu 02-May-13 21:54:55

and I clapped like a seal when they said captain jack was the face of boe

Choccyjules Thu 02-May-13 22:36:12

Donna has been the best companion since the reboot, imo.

Didn't mind Martha, though, contrary to most fans. Did not like Rose one bit (jealous, moi?!). Fancied Rory...didn't care much for Amy.

Really hoping it picks up soon. Did enjoy seeing inside the Tardis a bit more. I agree that souffle girl was Clara's best outing thus far.

I want to like Clara, but there isn't really much to like. She's feisty. And? Is she funny/clever/annoying/kind/brave/selfish? What's her motivation? There's just no personality, and it's frustrating because we know Who can be so much better.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Fri 03-May-13 00:30:48

i liked her at christmas, but then she was more her own person (people) then. now she exists only in relation to the doctor.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Fri 03-May-13 00:32:05

i SUPER-loathed Amy before Rory showed up, but that's because if thought Karen Gillan was a tremendously crap actress. she did get better, though.

teejwood Fri 03-May-13 08:13:35

Re Martha - I wasn't 100% convinced by Freema's acting and the whole unrequited love thing was a bit yawnsville, but some of my favourite stories are in that series. The Family of Blood two-parter, Blink and then the Master eps. I liked Martha more when she wasn't moping for the doctor.

Likewise, I loved that Donna was very firmly just in the "mate" camp - I think that is why she's been my favourite companion of NuWho, because the focus always was on the story, not their emotional subtext.

That said, I am a fan of the River/Doctor relationship because - to me - that one actually makes sense.

Donna' s 'You want to mate ??!!' When she agrees to travel with the Doctor has me in stitches every time I see it

I always felt Martha had a hard act to follow, coming after Rose and so I cut her plenty of slack <over invested>

teejwood Fri 03-May-13 08:45:08

Oh and agree Aitch that Clara at Christmas was more rounded and interesting as a character. In 7b so far, she's just some sort of cipher as far as I can see.

SinisterBuggyMonth Fri 03-May-13 08:45:17

I'd actually like to see Martha and Mickey come back for a few eps.

teejwood Fri 03-May-13 08:48:12

Laura yep, Donna and "mate" always reminds me of that scene grin I liked Martha when she was being clever and strong. The puppy dog eyes bits, not so much.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Fri 03-May-13 09:32:11

i liked martha, she was in some great episodes. i wonder if her and donna had the better stories because they weren't in some ginormous 'special companion' story arc? mind you, i suppose donna was... hers was just better.
we have the box sets and i'm surprised by how irritating i find rose now.

I disliked the way that Rose came back. It just seemed a bit rehash-y. She had her moment, she got to say goodbye and then... back again. It was an anti climax, I thought.

And my DD was annoyed that Rose got the doctor clone. As she rightly pointed out, you can't just substitute one person for another just because they look the same, otherwise identical twins would actually be interchangeable.

Martha was in some cracking stories, I agree. Blink is an amazing one -absolutely terrifying, although, again I didn't like the Weeping Angels brought back and everything explained, as they did later. Over explaining is one of my bugbear. Hence I hated the reintroduction of River and that story arc. And the Mel's episode - I couldn't watch it all.

I loved it when River was introduced in the library and we had to guess the relationship.

Besides, she said then that the Doctor was younger than when she had known him. Well, he certainly wasn't any older as Matt Smith grin

CalamityKate Fri 03-May-13 09:59:12

Blink was indeed one of the best ever episodes. Maybe in part because Martha was only in it for about a minute grin

Quenelle Fri 03-May-13 09:59:42

I don't like Freema's acting. The 'I'm bringing you back to Earth!' line Martha says at the start of one of the Master episodes makes me squirm every time. And the scene when she threatens to blow up the Earth with that wossname key, I can't look directly at her it's so excruciating.

I can't even watch her in Old Jack's Boat.

They did 'feisty' well with Rose. They completely overdid it with Amy and her scowling and pouting and 'Shut up!' every five minutes.

Donna wasn't super brave or very clever but she was great because she was emotionally very mature - a more realistic character trait than bloody 'feisty' again. I would have loved another season of Donna.

I so wanted Clara's 'thing' to be superior intellect so the Doctor/companion relationship was given a new dynamic. Perhaps they think audiences would feel threatened by, or just not interested in, such a female character.

Oh the Osterhaagen (sp?) Key. Yes I agree that Freema is a bit am dram. She often sounds as if she is backroom person who had a script shoved in her hand and was told to just have a go. Her scenes can be very squirmy grin

I will champion her though because at the time, Rose left some big boots to fill.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Fri 03-May-13 10:22:03

i honestly think of all of the actresses, JLC could have everything here. and there was one bit, right at the end of the last ep, where she wiggled her mouth in a way that i thought 'YES, THAT IS WHO I WANT HER TO BE'. oh hang on, you've not seen that bit.


Trill Fri 03-May-13 10:27:13


infamouspoo Fri 03-May-13 11:02:19

bring back the master grin

StephaniePowers Fri 03-May-13 13:09:24

I'm so glad to read all of you saying basically what I think about these female companions, and Matt Smith, and the general quality of characters and writing.

I have these conversations occasionally with men and it's so so obvious that they don't give a shiny shit if the female sidekicks are badly written. Hair, legs, um yes a bit of saucy backchat - all great in their world. It's utterly tragic.

I don't want to reduce it to appearances (but I'm going to): Matt Smith is a very odd-looking man and I find I just don't want to look at him very much. I suppose that's just a matter of taste and really I shouldn't care, but I actually find myself wincing at his more slack-jawed and adenoidal moments.

I'm sorry to say I think that JLC suffers from 'being pretty on the page' ie all the bits go together and she should be good looking, but she's just annoying.
Of course all that could be completely overlooked if there were proper scripts and decent acting but I don't think either of them has the personality to pull it off, nor the chemistry, and the material is shite too.


StephaniePowers Fri 03-May-13 13:12:16

I would also like 'feisty' to be banned form all future Dr Who publicity material.
It's a nebulous word and since they mean it to be 'contrary and irritating' I think they should just say that, really.

mrsjay Fri 03-May-13 16:27:52

justt seen Matt smith and David tennant on somebodies facebook doing the 50th filming <squeeee>

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Fri 03-May-13 18:56:51

have watched the gaiman episode again, seemed better, less muddled on second viewing, and clara does move up a gear.

I liked Sally Sparrow, Donna and Rose.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Fri 03-May-13 20:50:04

sally bloody sparrow, too busy nobbing about with baz luhrmann...

grin at nobbing about!

BandersnatchCummerbund Fri 03-May-13 21:13:51

Ah, a Who thread. grin

I just want them to SLOW DOWN. The thing about DT was yes, he had bags of energy and whizzed manically about everywhere, but he could take the pace RIGHT down when he wanted to. I can barely hear a word they're saying since he left, especially the companioins - am aware that makes me sound like an old gimmer, but I'm not, I'm in my 20s! - and it just means I can't understand the storylines, I can't hear the jokes, and I just end up feeling completely detached. Haven't felt properly emotionally involved in DW since DT left. OMG, that Donna ending...

I agree with that. I have enjoyed moments of DW since and I like Matt, but I looked forward to every episode when DT was DW, it was exciting and emotional and I cared about the companions/characters. Amy Pond was really annoying in her 'Dad fodder' clothes.

teejwood Fri 03-May-13 23:38:16

Aitch I'm trying to weigh up whether you not-so-stealth-boast more when you really like an ep. I think that may be the case grin

A lot of these eps seem to be better on re-watch, actually. I am clinging on to the belief that when we're at the end of this series or reach the 50th the whole SM/MS tenure will just make more bloody sense in retrospect.

mrsjay I'm reminded of that line of River's back in the Stormcage, something along the lines of having multiple doctors on her birthday grin

And yy - feck off to the fiesty - let's have the formidable and formidably intelligent!

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sat 04-May-13 00:31:10


i have just watched 'the doctor's name' or whatever it is called (apart from final moments, which aren't shown until transmission). ep13.

all is forgiven. <heart thumping madly> <tempted to watch again straightaway for first time in entire series>

all hail the moff.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sat 04-May-13 00:39:18

can i just say for the record that Saul Metzstein has done some fine work this series? he's obviously their Victorian specialist.

teejwood Sat 04-May-13 00:51:08

dammit Aitch the rest of us have to WAIT THREE BLOODY WEEKS

But glad it seems like there is a payoff in the finale - about bloody time!

Snapespeare Sat 04-May-13 07:16:55

so pleased aitch is all timey-wimey & we get our payoff. :-)

grin at a river episode. really hope the missing regeneration(s) of melody pond is (are) explained...and the SPOILER...other river timeline thing (thats as obtuse as i can get without spoiler-ing to death) ...

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sat 04-May-13 12:40:55

so, geeks, is 'the name of the doctor' the last episode of this run or not? i never know all that stuff.

Snapespeare Sat 04-May-13 14:18:47

Yep, we're done now until 50th anniversary show 23rd-ish November and then Xmas. There are new year show rumours and Matt smith regen at Xmas rumours as well.

Plus3 Sat 04-May-13 14:33:51

Well we all love Matt Smith in our house, and I didn't think they could replace David Tennant at all.

Not ready for 11 to regenerate sad

KayHarker Sat 04-May-13 17:43:34

Right o, time for an opinion. I love MS as the Doctor. I want to love JLC, but find her a bit one note. But one thing I really, really think is how bloody irritated I am by the relentless need to make every episode a mini-motion picture and not just slow it down and tell a story. the Moff has written two of the greatest Nu-WHo two parters and that would sit very nicely to give some breathing space and place for Clara to actually show some character instead of being just another Moff-bot "Hey I'm plucky, me, and foxy too - all you have to do show I'm more than that is tell everyone I've had a software upgrade in the first episode, don't bother referencing it again".

And breathe...

marjproops Sat 04-May-13 19:23:06

episodes getting better by the week. tonights was awesome!

and yay Jenny getting a good storyline.

Ada was breaking my heart, she was brilliant.

confusing but at the end tho with the kids finding out about time travelling.

well done Mark Gattis, back to your best.

RhondaJean Sat 04-May-13 19:27:42

Is it just me or was mr sweet somewhat erm - phallic looking?

marjproops Sat 04-May-13 19:31:48

grin rhonda you have a dirty mind! i thought that thing had a cute face!

I want more stories with the trio, dont you?

fill the gap left by the brilliant sarah-jane adventures.

infamouspoo Sat 04-May-13 19:38:43

'I'm reminded of that line of River's back in the Stormcage, something along the lines of having multiple doctors on her birthday'

They have sex? shock
The doctor? Nooooooooooooooo

Pixel Sat 04-May-13 19:46:02

I thought that was a dreadful episode, it did nothing for me at all. Cringy humour too with the TomTom stuff. So much of it made no sense. Why would a blind girl happen to have a straw-filled cell with manacles upstairs in her house?

Besides, all I could think about when they were dipping people in the vat was Carry on Screaming. Frying tonight? grin

RustyBear Sat 04-May-13 19:46:33

But how did a prehistoric leech teach a Victorian rocket science....

Pixel Sat 04-May-13 19:48:07

Tonights episode I mean, sorry.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sat 04-May-13 20:02:12

i'd assumed that she wasn't a rocket scientist until she'd met him and the nature of their symbiotic relationship was that she provided nourishment and a body and he provided brainz etc. fair point re manacles, i guess, but i suppose gillyflower had experimented on others?

Pixel Sat 04-May-13 20:04:17

Aitch, I think Rustybear's point was that it was prehistoric. It would know even less about - well anything really- than a victorian.

RustyBear Sat 04-May-13 20:06:14

I meant, how did a prehistoric leech know about rocket science? It didn't seem from Vastra's description that they were anything other than a unintelligent parasite - or did I miss something?

I started this thread two weeks in! I'm so sick of the new style. It's shallow, hyperactive and boring. Matt Smith in real life seems lovely, as the doctor he leaves me cold! Christopher Ecclestone and David Tennant were so adult. Their story lines were gripping and exciting. Stolen Earth and the episodes with The Master were excellent. All we get now is child orientated tea time viewing pap! It's like the Sarah Jane Adventures!
I'm actually NOT looking forward to the 50th Anniversary episode. I don't think I can bear to watch David Tennant knowing that he's going away again and leaving us with Matt Smith.

Snapespeare Sat 04-May-13 20:08:16

i really enjoyed that. got the 'carry on screaming' reference, i was really scared at a couple of bits, loved jenny velcro-ing off her day dress to kick-ass & the Drs screwdriver wilting as she did so. things are picking up. very much looking forwards to next weeks cybermen. smile

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sat 04-May-13 20:09:57

oh lol yes i see what you mean. haha, good point. although it might just have been silurian misinformation. ;D
i really liked that episode, i must say. whether it was just because of the utter garbage that had preceded it, i don't know, but i thought Dame Di was awesomely vicious. (wasn't wholly convinced by the blinding thing, though, surely injuries would have been to the skin surface rather than eyes?)

Absolutely RB. leeches have never had a use for rockets in the entire history of leeches.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sat 04-May-13 20:18:42

bit literal, though, that interpretation. is it more believable if we call it a space symbiot?

It looked like a tiny Slytheen. They could have come up with something. Big different!

But space symbiots don't build rockets either!

I did love the episode, just a bit of an issue with the rocket!

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sat 04-May-13 20:37:40

how do you know what space symbiots do, i just invented them!

Pixel Sat 04-May-13 20:39:54

My previous issue with the rocket was that it went up without burning everyone to a crisp. Now I've got two issues grin.
Since we're being picky I'm pretty sure they were carrying that big bottle of reg gloop about in a plastic laundry basket.

Whoever said about Sarah Jane Adventures, now I know what the bit at the end with the annoying children reminded me of, so thanks smile.

KayHarker Sat 04-May-13 20:56:10

GallifreyBase has a thread about the rights and wrongs of the kiss the Doctor gave Jenny and the ensuing slap. I didn't mind it, or the erection gag, but then I write fanfic so I wouldn't. but 'feminists' seem to think it highly inappropriate (I use '' because I am one) Am I way out of line?

Aitch did you never watch Deep Space Nine? Dax was a space symbiont! I'm fairly sure he/she didn't build any space rockets.

Oh but dax could transfer the skills of previous hosts or whatever they are called. Which would be fine if the leech had snogged a time traveller who knew about rockets.

<narrows eyes> perhaps aitch is really the deep space nine scriptwriter with a bad case of amnesia?

Or a Dr Who script writer who needs to steal ideas from Star Trek...

Hmmm. We are watching you aitch!

Talking of which, just 5 days to go!!!!

MavisGrind Sat 04-May-13 21:41:01

As I posted on the other thread....thank goodness a decent episode from this series! I'm hoping for good things from Neil Gaiman as I thought his last outing was the best thing of the last series.

Have been watching all the old CE/DT episodes and they were, on the whole, so much more entertaining than recent series. Really good, meaty stand alone stories that my dcs will watch again and again.

I was prepared to hate MS when he was cast but I actually find him pretty good, more alien and eccentric than DT, so I hope he doesn't regenerate too soon. We could do with a strong male companion though to detract from all the suggested romance. Rory was great, lets have more of that!

Pixel Sat 04-May-13 22:13:11

I think we need Captain Jack.

Oh please God bring back Captain Jack! I really enjoyed Torchwood!

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sat 04-May-13 22:26:32

I think that was the best episode this series... I liked the humour and Diana Rigg was brilliant!

teejwood Sat 04-May-13 22:30:08

Just to point out that Captain Jack also had his unrequited crush on the Doctor. Remember that bit in The Sound of Drums (I think?) where the Doctor was rabbiting on about unrequited love for some reason and Martha and Jack looked at each other and said "you too, huh?"
You're on the run, the Master has taken control of the UK, soon to be followed by the planet and you're busy making competitive puppy eyes at 10? I mean, sheesh, I understand the attraction but you've bigger fish to fry there hmm

teejwood Sat 04-May-13 22:33:54

<snorting at aitch calling us geeks - pot, kettle grin>

Really enjoyed tonight but I've liked most of Gatiss' eps - camp and funny and yes the Carry on Screaming team really should have had a credit! Tom Tom giving the directions was an all out groan, but kind of fit with the humour of the piece, too. Strax hilarious about to shoot the poor horse - he never knowingly under-reacts/threatens, does he?

teejwood Sat 04-May-13 22:37:00

Also yy to the Tegan references and Jenny going completely kick arse was fab. I would love a spin off for them, even if just a short series as the jokes might wear thin too quickly - but unlikely it would be the SJA slot, series 1 of Torchwood more like!!

Davros Sat 04-May-13 22:40:01

I really enjoyed tonight's although I'm not remotely able to analyse each episode and each series and the connections therein (or not)! I just know wharilike.

teejwood Sat 04-May-13 22:42:38

Anyone else think the big red jar of stuff and illogical rocket this week and the big friendly button last week were very knowingly rubbish? It's like they are having a laugh with/at us. And - actually - it brings to mind the slightly rubbish sets and costumes of OldWho. It's like a knowing nod to that, iykwim.

Ada wiping out Mr Sweet with her cane was 100% "appeal to the kids with the splatty gory bit"-tastic, too grin The green slime was really reminiscent of exploding Slitheen...

Pixel Sat 04-May-13 22:53:23

Ah but Jack makes eyes at everybody which sort of waters it down a bit. He might fancy the Doctor but he's quite happy to have other little diversions along the way.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sat 04-May-13 22:55:55

oh dear god NO to capt jack. jb really is utterly cack.

MavisGrind Sat 04-May-13 22:59:56

Slightly totally off topic but if any of the DT fans on here have been watching The Politicians Husband then I couldn't help but notice on my second viewing that when he set up his bogus twitter account his email address was johnsmith789. I do realise John Smith is a pretty common name but I do hope it was a subtle, y'know, thing <tragic>

Pixel Sat 04-May-13 23:01:49

I don't think he's very good in Torchwood but I prefer him in DW to an endless succession of of lovesick stroppy girlies which is all we seem to get now.

rosy71 Sat 04-May-13 23:06:40

I really enjoyed tonight's episode. I love Dr Who but, I have to admit, that I've not liked this series as much. I've been disappointed by Clara; she doesn't seem to have done anything. Tonoght she hardly seemed to feature at all.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sat 04-May-13 23:10:42

i'm just going to remind you of Jack and the Giant Vagina...
i know you've all tried to forget about it, and i know RTD is back in the UK (and we hope his boyf makes a brilliant recovery) but I WILL NOT FORGIVE Torchwood Miracle Day for stealing hours and hours of my life.

MavisGrind Sat 04-May-13 23:15:16

I remember the thread and the lost Summer (I suppose that should be the other way round and give precedence over RL and all that)....hoping it would get better. It never did.

Still, I'd like to know if Jack and Alonso had a good shag life!

Pixel Sat 04-May-13 23:27:52

Yes but Torchwood isn't DW is it. There are lots of things in Torchwood I'd rather forget tbh. It was already getting bad but going to America completely killed it for me. I really liked Jack when he was in the CE episodes.

Pixel Sat 04-May-13 23:38:06

I think they ruined Jack's character by making him immortal. Not only did the coming back to life thing become really boring (not to mention absolutely revolting at times as they looked for more vile ways to kill him), but it took away a lot of what made him likeable.
I really enjoyed the way he started off as a bit of a trickster Jack-the-lad but became a real hero when he helped fight the daleks and gave up his life we'll gloss over the naked bit with the hidden gun. After that it all went downhill. Shame really.

That is very true aitch. Was grim.

And pixel, when they resorted to torture was too much for me.

Pixel Sat 04-May-13 23:52:07

Yes I agree. It's one thing making it 'adult' but there comes a point when it's more sickening than entertaining!

PariahHairy Sun 05-May-13 00:42:30

That episode seemed okish, couldn't pay much attention due to noisy children grrr. Am I the only one who didn't like Gaiman's last episode? Didn't like it at all, I have read two Gaiman books (Anansi Boys, American Gods) and he is ok, but no genius.

Maybe his comics are better?? I don't honestly get how to read comics.

BlueSkySunnyDay Sun 05-May-13 01:04:46

Im not a Doctor Who fan but, against my expectations I enjoyed Christopher Ecclestone and I loved David Tenant (particularly the humour - there are lines DS and I still say to each other). DS was totally obsessed when DT was the Doctor as were his friends. The supporting cast, Micky, Jackie etc were brilliant

Towards the end of DT the writing started to get a bit self indugent and downright soppy - still loved, loved, loved DT so we stuck with it.

Matt Smitth I really didnt want to like him, actually I think he could have been quite good but neither DS or I enjoyed his early episodes - too sappy, too complicated, humour downright pathetic. We dont watch now nor do most of his friends.

John Barrowman busy being a baddie on Arrow at the moment wink

I enjoyed last night's episode. More like that would be better.

KayHarker Sun 05-May-13 13:48:33

Watching it again, it's made clear that Mrs Gillyflower is a specially talented engineer and chemist, so it's conceivable that she worked out the rocket without leechyboy.

Pixel Sun 05-May-13 21:35:27

grin at Leechyboy.

Bluesky, I can't help watching Arrow even though the lead actor is as wooden as a plank and his stupid hood and eye makeup annoys me. Bet JB is chuffed he now gets to play someone's dad not. ha ha.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 05-May-13 21:47:55

what's Arrow, then?

Sky 1 show Aitch! Job plays the dad of one of the Arrows friends! He's a baddeeeeeee!

that should be JB!

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 05-May-13 22:29:33

mmmm. is it great? am looking for nonsense to stick on the ol' sky planner. (finally got round to watching True Blood, weird to see all those Xmas adverts...)

It's ok, much prefer elementary though. And he following has just finished but Hannibal looks likely to fill that gap!

Pixel Sun 05-May-13 23:29:34

Well it's most of the way through the second series now, but it's on tomorrow at 8pm if you want to have a look. It's based on a comicbook character Green Arrow. JB isn't in it every week.

BlueSkySunnyDay Sun 05-May-13 23:36:15

Arrow is very true to "comic book" tradition - if you cant suspend all logic then you really wont enjoy it.

H drives me mad going "he's just wearing green makeup - how come no one recognises him"

Pixel - I like the lead actor, although I cant say its his acting that attracts me grin

Pixel Mon 06-May-13 00:01:02

Mmm well you can see why he got the part, he is pretty fit and young enough to be my son <sob> . He is awful though, he does a little pause when it's his turn to say his lines as though there is someone giving him a nudge to get on with it grin.
As for the not recognising him thing you can say that about most 'superheroes' really right back to the Lone Ranger and his dinky little mask. Even Superman only has to put on a pair of specs and no one knows who he is. No, what annoys me about Arrow is that it makes no sense to use makeup. How does he manage to get it all off in a hurry? Does he carry a little mirror and leave a trail of manky cottonwool balls behind him?

Oops, meant to be a DW thread. Dh didn't get to see it yesterday as he was working so has caught up with it today. He's just said if it carries on like this he won't bother watching it anymore. And that's from someone who used to get home from work at 4am and couldn't go to bed until he'd seen the latest episode!

BlueSkySunnyDay Mon 06-May-13 00:36:04

Pixel the "I'm suprised he got there in time as he stopped to put on his makeup" is one of H's lines LOL. It does feel very true to the old comic book style, almost like the old batman series which is perhaps why I like it. I can understand why others wouldnt as we are used to a more sophisticated style these days.

(sorry for hijacking thread) grin

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Mon 06-May-13 02:06:40

has anyone watched banshee yet? i found it REVOLTINGLY violent. shame, there was lots to admire in it.

SESthebrave Mon 06-May-13 07:40:16

For me, I find JB annoying in everything he does except for Captain Jack. (although I too wasted weeks on Miracle Day but I think it was ruined by taking it to America rather than anything else). I wonder though whether he's had a falling out with the DW team as he's not been back, no more TW and he's not involved in the 50th anniversary.

SESthebrave Mon 06-May-13 07:44:51

As for DW, I think Clara has potential to be so much more. I hope we get to understand how all the different Claras fit by the end of the series. I also hope she sticks around for another series but maybe at some point the Dr's companion(s) could be the Victorian trio or at the very least Jenny. I thought she was great in the last episode. Is it just a coincidence that she has the same name as the Dr's daughter?

Budgets were cut so no more TW is what I heard.

If you are looking for eye candy, I can recommended Chicago fire <fans self> and ole faithful greys anatomy.

SESthebrave Mon 06-May-13 08:56:29

<shock horror> I have still not seen any Grey's Anatomy. I must check whether it is on Netflix!

I haven't seen Grey's Anatomy. I was an ER fan. Loved that.

Snapespeare Mon 06-May-13 12:44:44

I've just been reading spoilers (tsk! At self) & if the one I want to be true is true, then the finale (& the 50th anniversary) will be incredible.

ByTheSea Mon 06-May-13 20:40:48

DD2-11 is a huge Dr Who fan and is distraught at how rubbish it's been this season.

Snog Wed 08-May-13 20:44:32

I want regeneration of dr who as a woman next
Perhaps the body of Donna even
with a cute male assistant of course

ShadeofViolet Thu 09-May-13 15:08:01

I am pinning my hopes on Cybermen giving the season a bit of life!

And the anniversary episode has my favourite ever enemy in - Zygons.

marjproops Sat 11-May-13 20:16:03

there are 2 or 3 DW threads around, just been on another one to say this episode was fabby too.

love Warwick Davis.

and the nods to the old DWs.

ladymalfoy Sat 11-May-13 20:20:06

That was shite. A few good bits but utter tosh. Can't believe it's from the man who bought us 'Neverwhere'.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sat 11-May-13 20:23:47

I loved it!!!

iklboo Sat 11-May-13 20:29:26

Loved Warwick but was a bit meh about the rest of it. It was no 'Doctor's Wife'. Too Borg with the almost instant upgrades.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sat 11-May-13 20:44:01

and also completely inconsistent... if they can whizz about, why not whizz all the time. why wait around to be zapped by a fat soldier?

also... i think warwick davies is a teeeeerrible straight actor. too pretendy-thinky.

I thought it was rubbish. Bring back the old cybermen, not stupid upgrade instantly (like the Borg) led by a bonkers leader.


AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sat 11-May-13 20:55:35

well, i enjoyed next week's... hope you do too, salvage something from this season. hugely disappointed in gaimani , can't see what was gained from sexing up the cybermen.

That's good to know Aitch. I'm glad this wasn't the season finale!

MrsJohnDeere Sat 11-May-13 21:58:45

Dh and I are huge Dr Who fans but we turned off tonight's episode after 5 minutes.

The only half decent one this series was the one last week, the rest have been dire.

MavisGrind Sat 11-May-13 22:33:14

Oh, but it's so sad though. You look at an episode like Blink, or a series with a companion like Donna Noble and they were such great, fun, scary, clever stories.

I can't work out what's gone wrong with this series - I found Amy Pond deeply, deeply irritating but it was so much better than this one (and I never thought I'd miss Amy).

I'm really hoping that River Song isn't wasted in the last one.

I am really losing interest. It's just so limp! sad

Pixel Sat 11-May-13 23:05:16

I'm not really sure what the problem is either. I used to watch each episode several times but now once is more than enough. I think it's lots of little things. I don't like all the love interest stuff and when the companions march in and start ordering other characters around it doesn't seem right. What makes Clara such an authority? She can't even control the wooden acting kids she's supposed to be nannying.

Bland, boring, no depth, too manic, no tension, pathetic story lines... You used to get so much crammed into the one hour slot. Now it's just like a children's tv series! In fact I've watched more enjoyable children's tv! sad the BBC have really dropped the ball.

poorbuthappy Sat 11-May-13 23:16:14

I turned it off before the end. I just couldn't pretend to myself that I was enjoying it anymore!
My favourite ever episode was Blink. And there is just no comparison at all to this series. It's pants. And it makes me sad. confused

The beginning of this was that rubbish Christmas special in the forest! I have never felt so let down!

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sat 11-May-13 23:45:39

i think christmas eps are inadmissible as evidence, they have such a hard job to do. (plus i quite liked that episode... grin)

CounselorTroi Sun 12-May-13 02:04:30

I'd report Clara the nanny to Ofsted.

Oh no! I've been out. Is it wort watching? I will have a hangover in the morning!!! grin

FairPhyllis Sun 12-May-13 03:03:55

The problem is that it's not character driven anymore, it's puzzle driven and ooh-look-isn't-the-Doctor-clever driven. So they didn't bother to give Clara a personality, just a handful of "feisty" quips. Much as was the case with Amy. So you don't actually care about whether anybody survives anymore.

The only good episodes this season have been 'Hide' and 'Cold War'. Warwick Davis did his best in this ep but he was wasted.

If Clara turns out to be River Song or some such nonsense next week I will probably take the TV out to the end of the garden and throw it into the river.

<<stealth boast about having a river at the end of the garden>> grin grin wink

Snapespeare Sun 12-May-13 08:06:31

I need to watch it again. All I can remember is Matt smith was great and Clara is suddenly some ass-kicking military sergeant type. Not quite sure how that happened.

Next weeks trailer tho' ooooo!

FairPhyllis Sun 12-May-13 08:11:44

Well I was going to say throw it from the attic like that MNer who threw her DS's Xbox out of the window, but I'd have to carry it up the stairs, which seems like unnecessary exertion.

It's a big proper industrial river estuary with booming foghorns and stuff Saggy. It's not some chi chi River Cottage type setup. grin

ClaraOswald Sun 12-May-13 16:02:37

Just seen last nights episode. Really enjoyed it.

Osmiornica Sun 12-May-13 17:38:07

The only thing I liked about this episode was spotting Castell Coch and Caerphily castle! It's definitely veered into the CBBC territory which may not be a bad thing for the children watching but dull for us adults.

Pixel Sun 12-May-13 20:40:52

Next weeks trailer tho' ooooo!.

That's the other thing that annoys me, trailers! God I'm such a grump.
I know all the programmes do them nowadays but I really think it's taken something away from Doctor Who. There used to be a nail-biting cliffhanger where you'd be left sitting with your mouth open for several seconds (or was that just me?) and then you'd be all desperate for next week to see another glimpse. Now it's 'oh no shock' and seconds later 'here's a bit more of Doctor Who'. It's deflating somehow and takes away the drama.
Of course I know we aren't getting two-parters and cliffhangers this season but that's part of the problem too. There's just no suspense.

Anyone seen the news today? The next episode has been sent out to people in America by accident! Oops!

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 12-May-13 21:28:52

how so?

How oops or how was it sent out?
Oops because it was meant to be sent out AFTER it is aired here, and instead people will be putting it on the net as torrents, meaning people here can see it before it is aired.
It was sent out in Blu ray form to those people who pre ordered a hard copy! confused

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 12-May-13 22:46:24

ooh, really? can people do that, then? order hard copies of shows immediately?

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 12-May-13 22:48:07

oh i see, so the series 7 dvds have gone out already? shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. someone's getting sacked.

Oh yeah! Someone is in deep doo doo!

mummytime Mon 13-May-13 17:04:45

I think this last episode really cried out to be a two parter. In the olden days there would be stories that lasted even more than two parts. They really need to alter the story length a bit, to make it more interesting.

marjproops Mon 13-May-13 20:33:23

Watch showed 'Blink' again today-still brilliant, still scary, Moffat at his best.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Thu 16-May-13 08:57:20

it has to be the pressure (possibly self-inflicted) to create a blockbuster per week that has sent them all nuts. but i'm sure moffat gave himself the space before, wasn't his 'i'm not your daddy' script a two parter? (never remember the names, sorry).

what's prompted the hatred of the two-parter? delayed gratification all the sweeter and all that...

RustyBear Thu 16-May-13 20:20:29

Do you mean 'Are you my mummy?’ grin

They were The Empty Child and The Doctor Dances. The Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead was Moffat too.

Maybe they think that now the seasons are pretty much cut in half, two-partners would take up too much of a half-season...

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Fri 17-May-13 08:45:38

hahahaahahah i'm not your daddy was kid creole and the coconuts! <shows age>

marjproops Fri 17-May-13 19:19:55

LOL aitch. at kid creole! can imagine the doctor singing that! but to who?????

teejwood Fri 17-May-13 20:59:29

I'm stupidly excited about the finale. My fervent hope is that it will make sense of the last few series, but barring that just a bloody brilliant ep will suffice.

teejwood Fri 17-May-13 21:00:32

Roar at kid creole. I still remember that TOTP appearance

teejwood Fri 17-May-13 21:02:48

marj i think he would sing it to to Clara because there's no way he's her daddy - but she might yet turn out to be something to do with River!

marjproops Fri 17-May-13 21:21:23

im just longing for him to say his names nigel or Steve or something!

teejwood Fri 17-May-13 21:57:55

I don't think we'll see or hear the name. Or if we do, it'll be Gallifreyian gobbledegook. Actually, in the Tardis episode there were rows of what looked like perfume that were actually the Gallifreyian Encyclopaedia - maybe his name will be a scent or a liquid rather than a word?!

Snapespeare Sat 18-May-13 08:50:27

dont let me down stephen moffat! <hard stare>

They can't tell us his name. That would be wrong!

Dh reckons it is John Smith.

Snapespeare Sat 18-May-13 11:54:43

Oh there's absolutely NO WAY we'll find out what his name is.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sat 18-May-13 12:25:05

They are definitely building it up..so it had better be good

<joins in hard staring>

Idontknowhowtohelpher Sat 18-May-13 13:19:14
RustyBear Sat 18-May-13 13:51:21

According to the DT website, it's building up to a cliffhanger or the anniversary episode a which means 6 months more to wait....

marjproops Sat 18-May-13 18:19:25

I dont want to know his name , keep the mystery.

It would be great if he turned to the camera, gave a deep and meaningful stare, raised an eyebrow, said ''my....name....is....''

and suddenly the duff-duff-duff-duff eastenders drum thing comes on grin

OR- ''my name is, my name is, my name is, Charles the 2nd!''

20 minutes! Chances of ds being in bed by then??? Not high anyway!

marjproops Sat 18-May-13 18:57:25

Are we all ready????

see you afterwards!

ClaraOswald Sat 18-May-13 19:01:30

see you in a bit

JakeBullet Sat 18-May-13 19:08:27

Whoop whoop! River Song smile

Snog Sat 18-May-13 19:21:06

Things Looking up this episode

Snog Sat 18-May-13 19:22:12

Scary monsters look like clockwork orange meets Dali!

JakeBullet Sat 18-May-13 19:24:00

River Song, Richard E Grant....better and better.

Snog Sat 18-May-13 19:25:39

Love Richard e grant!

Davros Sat 18-May-13 19:33:44

Whisper men (?) look like The Trickster from SJA

JakeBullet Sat 18-May-13 19:34:51

Oh fab stuff.... finally!

Bloody hell that was good shock

John Hurt? Seriously?

SoupDragon Sat 18-May-13 19:44:38



ClaraOswald Sat 18-May-13 19:45:07

Can't wait for November now.

SoupDragon Sat 18-May-13 19:45:34

PMSL at Glasgow though. "I wish we'd never found that place" [arf]


Want to watch it again straight away, but its Eurovision. What to do?

But what does it mean?

iklboo Sat 18-May-13 19:48:10

Whoa Nelly!!!!!!!

marjproops Sat 18-May-13 19:48:18

agree the whisper men were just like the brilliant trickster fro SJA.

wow. what a lot of episode! dont know what to think!

John Hurt? what?????? and now weve got 6 bloody months to wait.......

thought richard e grant was going to say he was the Master or something.

CalamityKate Sat 18-May-13 19:48:33


edam Sat 18-May-13 19:50:22

Wow. John Hurt?!

Must be a false lead - I reckon Moff is 'avin a larf. Surely JH is far too busy and the role of Doctor is far too intense?

iklboo Sat 18-May-13 19:50:32

My name is, my name is, my name is <wicka wicka> Slim Shady.

ClaraOswald Sat 18-May-13 19:51:25

Kitten- watch it tomorrow, when you have had a chance to process it. I think that's what we'll do.

DioneTheDiabolist Sat 18-May-13 19:51:29


AlwaysReadyForABlether Sat 18-May-13 19:51:53

I'm totally discombobulated!

Jux Sat 18-May-13 19:55:36

Well, I'm sorry MS is going, though I like JH (used to drink in the same pub as him 25 years ago, and yes, we've shared the odd round). As usual, I really hope that's the end of Riversong, or maybe she could regenerate into an actor who can act.

Hope Clara stays too.

So now everyone can get cross with me over my vile stance on River grin

RustyBear Sat 18-May-13 19:57:07

I'm thinking maybe John Hurt is the Valeyard

Loved that - but not that we now have to wait 6 months....

MurielTheActor Sat 18-May-13 19:59:09

No No No!
MS is not going....
(don't think hmm)
Surely there are going to be doctors and JH is the baddie so his future self becomes his own nemesis???

(I hope)
Tall about keeping a secret!

MurielTheActor Sat 18-May-13 19:59:35

2 doctors.... obvs

Snapespeare Sat 18-May-13 19:59:50

<happy tears> he loved river, he could always see her, it just hurt too much to talk to her <blub!> I still think he'll pitch up to the library and get her. She isn't wiped, she's back off to her library.

John hurt is 9. Mcgann regenerated into him, he regenerated into ecclestone. Hurt is the gnocide, the war criminal, the beast. That's why everyone else gets a bad press.

Might have been a bit upset when Jenny died as well. I love vastra and Jenny. They're a fab telly cross species same sex marriage.

RustyBear Sat 18-May-13 20:01:25

Matt Smith has confirmed he's filming Series 8, so I don't think he's turning into John Hurt. I think it may be a way of getting over the 12 regenerations thing....

bryonywhisker Sat 18-May-13 20:01:45

DH who is not a Whovian at all came in right at th e end and said JH is the prequel

marjproops Sat 18-May-13 20:05:57

LOVED seeing all the old docs, especially the pre-titles teaser...where was 8th and 10 tho? did i miss them?

SoftKittyWarmKitty Sat 18-May-13 20:07:34

Is it repeated? I'd like to watch it again.

NoHank Sat 18-May-13 20:18:37

Posted on the other thread as well but I loved it. I also loved the scene with River, made me cry.

Snapespeare can you explain about JH being number 9? I admit I'm not really clued up on the order of them all. I just speculated maybe JH could be a future version of Roses Dr who would obviously age rather than die? But I have nothing to base this on other than he looked like DT from the back and I really thought that was who was going to turn around grin

FairPhyllis Sat 18-May-13 20:28:24

Hurt is either the Valeyard or he is an aspect of 8/9 from the Time War, I reckon.

fancyanother Sat 18-May-13 20:32:04

Ooh JH being 9 is a good theory. I assumed he was No 25 or something- his future self but that sounds much more brilliant!. And makes sense of Clara saying 'I have seen all 11 of you' and him not answering.

lljkk Sat 18-May-13 20:33:26
Snapespeare Sat 18-May-13 20:33:37

No, mine is just a theory, I think he was so unspeakable during the time war that he's blanked himself out.. So Matt is 12... And with only 13 possible regens, that means the next doctor is the last doctor no. Not at all

NoHank Sat 18-May-13 20:41:35

Um, and to show off my ignorance a little bit more, who or what is the Valeyard

I admit, the only reason I get a fraction of the references is thanks to these threads!

rosy71 Sat 18-May-13 20:41:45

I wondered whether John Hurt was supposed to be the original doctor, i.e. before William Hartnell. Wasn't the first doctor running away from Gallifrey for some reason?

Snapespeare Sat 18-May-13 20:44:23

Yes, I like that too! That Hartnell wasn't the first (& I loved all of the pre titles sequence)

Did anyone see eight?

Davros Sat 18-May-13 20:47:07

Jux, was it the Tabard in chiswick?

overthemill Sat 18-May-13 20:51:02

In our house we've assumed JH was a baddie and Hartnell et al are trying to atone. So JH was the pre Dr who chap. Very confusing. No idea who Clara is, we wondered if she is the Tardis?

RustyBear Sat 18-May-13 20:52:17

The Valeyard was a Time Lord who prosecuted the Doctor for crimes against Time Lord laws (ie interfering in other planets' history) during the 'Trial of a Time Lord' season, which was during the Sixth Doctor's time. It turned out that the Valeyard was actually the Doctor "an amalgamation of the dark side of the Doctor from between his twelfth and final incarnations" I'm a bit hazy about the whole Trial of a Time Lord thing, basically because the whole series was shit (honestly, having watched that one, this current series shines by comparison) so I've never watched it again...

PureDeadBrilliant Sat 18-May-13 20:53:16

I missed the Last Centurian episode, what season was that?

NoHank Sat 18-May-13 20:56:23

Thank you RustyBear It's not the first time you've come to my rescue grin

TwoFourSixOhOne Sat 18-May-13 20:56:25

Richard e grant mentioned the Vale yard when he was listing the doctors other names....

marjproops Sat 18-May-13 20:58:14

i dont think the 12th/13th doc will be the last, therell be some timey wimey anomoly reversing the polarity explanation.

hope so.

but lets have MS a bit more, his actings brilliant.

Snapespeare Sat 18-May-13 21:01:33

well... When river gave him her remaining regenerations....

RustyBear Sat 18-May-13 21:02:07

Last Centurion was Season 5 PureDead.

The argument against the Valeyard is that up to now the new series has avoided expecting watchers to know more than the basic facts of the Classic series, and if he does turn out to be the Valeyard, they will need an awful lot of explanation.

And also that the Trial of a Time Lord was crap and best forgotten

NoHank Sat 18-May-13 21:02:09

I agree, I love matt. I also loved Chris Eccleston and David T. I'm fickle I am

RustyBear Sat 18-May-13 21:06:43

There a lots of ways of explaining why the doctor can regenerate past 13 - for example, that it was just a Time Lord rule, imposed for political reasons and now the Time Lords are gone, there's nothing to stop infinite regenerations, or that now that Gallifrey is gone and the Eye of Harmony is in the TARDIS, all the regeneration energy of all the lost Time Lords is now concentrated in the TARDIS and available to the Doctor...

Snapespeare Sat 18-May-13 21:10:07

nods at rusty , but oh! My version is more romantic (plus, I tend to think river knows all and she knew what would happen in the library and that he will save her, so she's banking those regens. :-)

188 sleeps to 23.11.13

PureDeadBrilliant Sat 18-May-13 21:21:09

Thank you, experts!

I'm off to amazon...

PureDeadBrilliant Sat 18-May-13 21:24:14

Ok - sorry other daft question... When was River introduced? Was it in the Library?

RustyBear Sat 18-May-13 21:32:01

Yes, in season 4

ShadeofViolet Sat 18-May-13 21:37:21

Thats what happened to the cash machine thingy from Noel's House Party.

ShadeofViolet Sat 18-May-13 21:37:40

Wrong thread blush

RustyBear Sat 18-May-13 21:40:20

I have to know - what did happen to the cash machine thingy from Noel's House Party?

alpinemeadow Sat 18-May-13 21:48:37

Yes she is introduced in the library episode. And wearing a spacesuit.
meaningful pause.
Is clara still split into little bits even though she has also been rescued by the doc? And how did her entering the vortex and splitting into bits save dr this time - didnt understand that?

RustyBear Sat 18-May-13 22:02:41

Because The Great Intelligence (Richard E Grant) went into the Doctor's timeline and corrupted it, making him take wrong decisions, turning the things he did to evil, changing his personal history, so that all the things he did to save the world/universe never happened. Clara went back and stopped the changes happening.

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sat 18-May-13 22:06:00

Like getting William Hartnell to steal the right tardis

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sat 18-May-13 22:06:23

I thought it was awesome btw!

My lovely Whovian DS says that John hurt is the ninth doctor between McGann and Ecclestone. He is responsible for ending the Time Wars, and the destruction of the Time Lords. It's actually a plot line I've seen before, in Star Trek Deep Space Nine. Dax, who is one of several hosts of a long lived alien symbiont, discovers an extra host buried in their shared memories, who was blanked out, because he was a murderer. <<sci to anorak>>
If DS is correct, then he could have obtained the regenerative powers of any number of others I suppose.

I actually quite enjoyed this episode. Mainly I think, because Matt Smith acted other than just manic and annoying! I cannot wait to see DT back though!

fancyanother Sun 19-May-13 07:14:22

Does anyone think there is anything in the psychic link between River and Clara? There was the psychic link between the ghost and her great great grandmother in the ghost episode...

alpinemeadow Sun 19-May-13 07:52:41

Thanks rusty and shipwrecked! But this is what i don't understand - in reality clara has only saved him three times in the past, never appeared in a single other episode before this series - so how can it now be claimed that she's been around all along?
Also, if clara has helped him out before and we just haven't been shown it in a single episode for 50 yrs, surely he would have remembered her? She wouldn't have been 'new' to him this series, but an ongoing conundrum - 'oh, you again, how strange.'
However, leaving all that aside, is the current position that she is now rescued as normal ie twenty first century clara and split into millions of bits? How is that possible?
Saggy that does sound plausible - i am sure christopher ec had only just regenerated in first episode - some comment about his ears. And fancy,yes i think there is more of a link between river and clara - someone must have put her on that leaf.
Oh by the way, where is clara's dad? Did he die as well after her mother did - i don 't remember finding out about him?

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sun 19-May-13 08:03:59

They tried to get round that by saying that none of the others quite 'saw' her at the beginning. Clearly the Hartnell character responded to her suggestion but didn't register her.

The suggestion seemed to be that the phrase 'run you clever boy and remember' resonated with Matt Smith's doctor so that he did register her.

I love the idea of a hidden doctor before ecclestone. It makes sense that there might have been another one and it brings the idea that a time lord can only have 12 regenerations to this 50 year special. John Hurt is an inspired choice!!

I don't think it's quite the same as Dax. he/she his the symbiont from herself and had no memory of it at all. Whereas, Matt Smith clearly does know exactly who he is and has hidden him as a secret from others.

fancyanother Sun 19-May-13 08:10:07

I didn't think Clara did in fact need to exist until the Great Intelligence tried to wipe the Doctor out, so Clara jumping into his timeline has rewritten again all that has gone before. Also, I suppose The Doctor from Hartnell to Smith is about 500 years old so there must have been millions of people he has met who he cant quite remember. maybe its so unusual because it was so soon

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sun 19-May-13 08:14:45

The whisper men reminded me of a Buffy episode. Can't remember what it was called but it proper freaked me out at the time!

RustyBear Sun 19-May-13 08:27:36

Clara did say 'they hardly ever saw her'

I think you're thinking of The Gentlemen in 'Hush' Shipwrecked - they stole the voices of the whole town so no-one could hear the screams of their victims and then took seven people's hearts. V scary episode....

I know the one you mean shipwrecked, they go around stealing everyone in sunny dales voices.

alpinemeadow Sun 19-May-13 08:31:43

Fair enough shipwrecked and fancy, i suppose it would be a bit much to expect doc to remember a fleeting encounter from 500 yrs ago! Though I find it hard to believe she wouldn't have featured quite prominently on at least a few occasions since then, and registered with the other docs if she is as crucial as they're making out!
Yes fancy, i love the paradoxy stuff - clara only came into existence because of richard grant's actions yesterday, but now has existed through time, so confusing!

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sun 19-May-13 08:32:10

Yes, yes! That's it...brilliant episode!

Do you think that if Moffat goes then Joss would be interested in Dr Who??

SoupDragon Sun 19-May-13 08:51:32

Didn't MS say something along the lines that JH was before he took the name "The Doctor" ? I can't remember exactly - must watch again!

davidtennantsmistress Sun 19-May-13 08:57:57

So is there two doctors now or no matt smith? I'm confused.

SoupDragon Sun 19-May-13 09:04:30

2 doctors.

fancyanother Sun 19-May-13 09:05:51

Soup, I thought he said he too the name Doctor because it was a statement of intent, ie to help people, but JH's Doctor had betrayed the given name. I assume then that JH was the Doctor some time after the name was chosen.
DT- No there is one Doctor, MS and JH are different incarnations.Just as DT and MS will be different incarnations of the same person in the 50th, even though they appear at the same time.

fancyanother Sun 19-May-13 09:06:11


ShipwreckedAndComatose Sun 19-May-13 09:13:05

Agreed Fancy

He did, but he said John Hurt's Dr didn't deserve the name because it was a name of intent and he had broken that through his actions. John Hurt had betrayed the name of the doctor so he was around after the name was chosen

Also they were inside the DC's own timeline where he could meet any/all of his past regenerations. John Hurt's doctor was not in 'real life'

IAmNotAMindReader Sun 19-May-13 09:16:52

The name thing I took to mean he was saying the JH Doctor had no right to the name because the attrocities he committed in the Time War were not in the name of the Dcotor.

In the Doctors Daughter he leaves the people there with the words live your life as a man who never would because I never would. The JH Doctor was probably born and died in the Time War and the rest of them probably feel he took the choice too easily even though it probably killed him and lead to the CE regeneration.

We know those events caused massive devastation throughout the universe. In series one the Gelf are left without form and try to invade Earth. They stated the lower planets like Earth didn't notice but the more advanced worlds were left in chaos. In fact even in the opening episode of series one with the plastic people their unifying consciousness is raging at what he did. Even though we never know what it said. It was correct because CE's Doctor replies weakly that he had no choice as if he thinks now there may have been alternatives.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 19-May-13 09:59:34

it was GOOD, wasn't it? almost like Moff took his eye off the ball for the rest of the series, cos he was concentrating on that and the anniversary.
thought jlc acted well in that ep, also, fingers crossed now that her mystery is solved she can relax into being a normal human companion.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Sun 19-May-13 10:00:24

i had assumed that he's the doctor prior to hartnell, and what made him run away etc. but this whole valeyard thing sounds brilliant.

RustyBear Sun 19-May-13 10:08:15

Just watched it again...

"The name you choose is like a promise you make. He's the one who broke the promise. He is my secret"

"What I did, I did without choice. In the name of peace and sanity"

"I know. But not in the name of the Doctor"

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sun 19-May-13 10:09:59

Having a doctor before Hartnell would be harder to do because of so many back references to double check. For instance, The Doctor has had quite a lot of dealings with Galafrey over the years, especially as Tom Baker...I always got the impressions he was considered a bit of a rogue but not a mass destroyer (which is the impression I got last night)

I think we are finding out exactly why he is the last of the time lords.

RustyBear Sun 19-May-13 10:17:53

If this 'doctor' really is the one who fought the Time War, it may explain why the Doctor needs a companion.
When CE's doctor (9 or 10?) came to Earth in the first episode of the new series, he was newly regenerated, still obviously had memories of the Time War but was trying to forget - but he had a lot of hate - remember 'Dalek' where Rose persuaded him not to destroy the lone Dalek?
When he had a companion again, it helped to heal him; when he was without one he slipped back into the doctor who forgot his promise, who would think he could do anything he wanted if the end justified the means, who didn't know when to stop. Donna recognised that he needed someone to tell him when to stop.

SoupDragon Sun 19-May-13 10:20:22

Dog was being bloody annoying at that point so I didn't quite catch what was said smile

ShipwreckedAndComatose Sun 19-May-13 10:26:36

There certainly has been a dark cloud of tragedy hanging over the doctor since his return as Ecclestone

edam Sun 19-May-13 11:02:50

Ds came up with a theory that John Hurt is somehow the other Doctor who was created by Donna absorbing the Time Vortex (the one the Doctor gave to Donna) but that doesn't fit. Ds is 9, though, so I think it's quite a good theory for someone in Year 5.

Just watched it again with dh, who was out working last night. He was VERY grateful that not only had we kept quiet (I didn't even give anything away on Facebook) we had hidden the Doctor Who bingo cards dh had brought home from Forbidden Planet. (FP also had leaflets from that theme park they were in last episode, which ds loved.) Think I get top wifie brownie points that I can trade on for quite a long time and ds gets top Good Boy points.

edam Sun 19-May-13 11:59:03

the doctor gave to Rose, I mean.

IAmNotAMindReader Sun 19-May-13 12:10:48

Parts of the puzzle have been given to us in other episodes.
We know The Time War is time locked.
We get a hint that this means the participants are doomed to fight the same battles and die and be reborn to fight them again over and over (from DT's last story).
We know the other Time Lords who had previously been peaceful were going to bring about the end of time and tried to do so again by using the Master to break them out (in DT's last story).
What we don't know is how and what other collateral damage there was.

Jux Sun 19-May-13 12:29:26

Sometimes I long for the days when Dr Who was simply an alien, and it didn't matter if you missed an episode or a whole series, and there weren't hints and clues and bits and pieces.... grin. But then you ended up with Davison, and McCoy and rather a lot of crap.

Incidentally, does anyone know if the first series (Hartnell) is available anywhere?

alpinemeadow Sun 19-May-13 13:40:01

Hmm. In the one where amy had been kidnapped and gave birth to melody, the kidnappers referred to the fact that the doc had caused mass wars and devastation - that was why they wanted to breed someone who could kill him. But i thought that devastation was in the future, not in the time wars? Could jh be a future regeneration who goes to the bad? But if so, then matt smith wouldn't know what jh had done, so i suppose that doesn't work.
For someone who was so angry, chris ec doc was quite chirpy and witty most of the time. I didn't realise he was supposed to be 'angry doc' until dt told us.
Clara has been a disappointment to me - compared with the banter we got from dalek oswin, and the governess, she is a bit dull. Maybe it took the being broken intO a million pieces to give her character!

teejwood Sun 19-May-13 15:05:58

I think it says a lot that DS, who generally has been a bit meh about this series, exploded with something akin to rage that he was going to have to wait until November for the next episode grin

Am sooo glad I was not the only one sobbing at the River scenes. The Doctor/River has got to be one of my favourite love stories of all time, bonkers as it is. And I loved the fact we have more questions in spite of much of it being resolved.

Am with those who think JH has got to be the version of the Doctor through the Time War. Yes he despised the darkness and duplicity of the Valeyard, but his attitude towards JH seems to be at another level.

And did anyone think that River opened the door because she needed Clara to be alive, more than anything else, because she knew what Clara was going to do? The old "Whatever your thinking of doing, don't" seemed to be more of an encouragement to Clara's type of character.

Also loved the admonition to the Doctor to think about why there was a link between River and Clara. If it wasn't for the snogging that had already taken place, you would assume she was saying that Clara is a distant relation (based upon what happened in Hide). Or maybe she is saying that an element of Clara entered not just the Doctor's timelines but also the being of some of the companions? Some of those outfits were very Sarah Jane, Ace etc.

IAmNotAMindReader Sun 19-May-13 15:11:12

I Like that teejwood. As if she had to be sure he'd listen and so elements went to them too.

Badvoc Sun 19-May-13 15:13:03

I can't watch it anymore.
Loved it when da I'd tennant was the dr.
Matt smith is a gurning over acting tosser.
The writing, casting, everyone had gone very downhill IMO...

marjproops Sun 19-May-13 18:07:28

jux you can get hartnells stuff on dvd. the very very first episode EVER is just amazing.

rosy71 Sun 19-May-13 18:39:14

Having watched it again today, I'm beginning to think JH must be the doctor in the Time War. I'm not quite sure how he ended up dead in a soldier's graveyard though. confused

RustyBear Sun 19-May-13 18:44:58

Well, he didn't, really, did he? At least he hasn't 'yet' if you can ever use that word about a Time Lord. He only ended up there as part of the Doctor's complete time stream after the Doctor finally died - we still don't know when that will be, or how, from a linear subjective viewpoint.

I love the fact that the Doctor's final form did actually look like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff...

Jux Sun 19-May-13 20:37:37

Thanks, marj. I can just about remember it, but I was 5 ....

marjproops Sun 19-May-13 20:55:11

I was only just born! they showed it some years back on the whatever anniversary of doctor who. loved it. and loved when it came back in 2005 the scene where the tardis was in the yard at the back of the restaurant, just reminded me of the 1st ever episode where the tardis was in the junkyard.

Hi just delurking to say there are some old Dr Whos on Netflix if you have it. Not ussually my thing after seeing last nights and reading this thread i went looking! The only Dr Who i remember is the titles when i was a child!

Currently watching an episode from the 80's (Sylvester Mccoy i think)

Pixel Sun 19-May-13 22:02:26

I'd got really fed up with all the snogging in Doctor Who, but somehow it's ok when it's River he's snogging smile.

Jux Sun 19-May-13 22:27:18

The snogging is really annoying, no matter who.

lljkk Mon 20-May-13 08:09:14

"No Sex please, we're British!" ? smile

Jux Mon 20-May-13 08:16:03

a) he's an alien - unrealistic
b) it's a kids' show - inappropriate

SESthebrave Mon 20-May-13 09:07:00

Not sure - if I met an alien like DT, I'd probably be quite happy with a snog grin

Wishiwasanheiress Mon 20-May-13 09:13:34

Kids shouldn't see adults, who are married in the story, kiss? That's patently ridiculous.

I think they do a great job of trying to weave an overall story into smaller adventures. I thought the last one tied up loose ends fine and set up 50yrs celebrations well.

John hurt made me giggle though. Fab voice hasn't he?

It's not a kids show though. It's "family entertainment". That's like saying Merlin was a kids show.

Sarah Jane adventures was aimed directly at kids, that's why it was on cbbc. Yes to all intents and purposes he is an alien, but so is river, kind of.

And is snogging inappropriate for kids? Because I am inflicting inappropriateness on ds all the time!

I'm sorry jux we will have to agree to disagree on this one. smile

mummytime Mon 20-May-13 10:06:40

Also River isn't totally human!

SoupDragon Mon 20-May-13 10:06:41

a) he's an alien - unrealistic
Um... River isn't entirely human what with the regenerating thing!

b) it's a kids' show - inappropriate
As has been said - they are married.

teejwood Mon 20-May-13 10:09:12

I agree that River and the Doctor snogging seems right, because they are much more equal in terms of time travel, intellect etc. And he has acknowledged her as his wife, so again it's entirely appropriate in terms of the plot. The other time I don't mind it is when it has a real place in the plot eg The Unicorn and the Wasp (with Donna snogging DT to give him a shock, which was hilarious).

So yes, sorry Jux, I'm in the agree to disagree camp.

teejwood Mon 20-May-13 10:10:27

Oh and am with SES on the meeting DT thing ^^ grin

RustyBear Mon 20-May-13 11:26:20

Me too!
Every time I hear 'Amoureuse' I always think of the Doctor...

fancyanother Mon 20-May-13 13:51:51

jux Sorry, I disagree too. He was kissing his wife, not stripping her naked and shagging her on the Tardis floor!

And do aliens not have relationships? River is the closest thing to his own species in the universe. He has had a grandchild, so he's clearly had 'relations' before!

I too love the bonkers Doctor/River love story- its my favourite ever too!

ShipwreckedAndComatose Mon 20-May-13 13:55:59

I'd rather see a bit of kissing than lots of unnecessary violence (luckily this doesn't happen on Dr Who!)

I think the move to this in modern Dr Who (captain Jack etc) is a better reflection of society personally.

Jux Mon 20-May-13 14:21:54

Oh, I know I'm being unreasonable grin

(It still annoys me though, and I still loathe River.) wink

SoupDragon Mon 20-May-13 14:38:37

Captain Jack.... <<drifts off in an unrealistic daydream>>

slug Mon 20-May-13 15:39:33

I maintain that the Doctor's real name is Derek and that is why he never wants to reveal it.

SoupDragon Mon 20-May-13 15:45:16

When the tomb-tardis doors opened, I wasn't listening closely and was convinced the DR had replied with something like "Steve" grin

slug Mon 20-May-13 16:01:15

"Derek....Derek Smalls"

Trill Fri 24-May-13 12:19:41

The whisper men reminded me of The Gentlemen as well

Trill Fri 24-May-13 12:22:12

Aitch - I agree (I think) - my guess was that John Hurt is the zero-th doctor - the person that he was before he became "The Doctor".

Is that the same as your guess?

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Fri 24-May-13 21:35:47

it was indeed my guess but (and i cannot stress this enough) i am R U B B I S H at this. so i'm now all about the valeyard chappie, he sounds ace.

Has anyone clocked that John Hurt is wearing Christopher Ecclestones Leather Jacket and Paul McGanns waistcoat?

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Fri 24-May-13 21:58:33

i read that somewhere... but tbh then i watched it again and couldn't see a thing.

AitchTwoOhOneTwo Fri 24-May-13 22:42:24

oh well that's a clincher, then, isn't it? he's got to be this valeyard fella. i take it he shut the doors after him and left all of gallifrey to burn in everlasting regenerative hell? tsk.

I miss Doctor Who sad

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sat 25-May-13 22:39:45

Aw OYBBK sad

Louise1956 Wed 05-Jun-13 14:55:50

Don't really care much for the new ones anyway, I'm more of an old Dr Who fan, but my sons seem to be happy enough with the new ones, and it is a kid's show after all.

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