Homeland - Season 2 Finale, the Final Thread

(375 Posts)
Fiderer Wed 19-Dec-12 16:04:21

The other one's nearly full, so here we go with Carrie & Brody, St Saul of Snacks and our theories of What Happens Now.

cornycarrotshack Wed 19-Dec-12 16:17:32

Quinn is English. Who knew?

Fiderer Wed 19-Dec-12 16:25:12

I only did thanks to the other thread. Also that Estes is.

I still think there was a reluctance (in the trailer) on Quinn's part about killing Brody. Then again, the writers and trailers like us to think one way any then something unexpected happens.

Which makes me think. Brody/DL is not leaving so he won't die and his death/survival cannot be the cliffhanger. So I reckon again something unexpected will happen.

cornycarrotshack Wed 19-Dec-12 16:28:25

it will be something linked to Saul I think. Saul will do something about Brody - maybe warn Carrie.

HalleLouja Wed 19-Dec-12 16:38:06

Quinn used to go out with Keira Knightley in real life.

HalleLouja Wed 19-Dec-12 16:39:04

This whole 7 seasons thing is a red herring. Someone posted somewhere that they can still leave but may need to come back for flashback scenes etc.

Fiderer Wed 19-Dec-12 16:41:34

True enough Halle - hadn't thought of that. Still don't think they'll kill off Brody or Carrie yet. Or Saul. Not with an eye on the ratings anyway.

diddl Wed 19-Dec-12 16:41:48

Having seen the finale, I can´t possibly comment on what might happen!

Do hope Quinn is in the next series though.

cocolepew Wed 19-Dec-12 16:42:57

Just marking my place smile
It's no good watching it before everyone else, I can't talk about it sad

diddl Wed 19-Dec-12 16:45:53

I could talk to you, cocogrin

HalleLouja Wed 19-Dec-12 16:46:12

So Quinn might be in the next series [ponders]

gypsyfloss Wed 19-Dec-12 16:55:07

Am watching it right now grin

gypsyfloss Wed 19-Dec-12 16:55:57

We could have a splinter early watchers group smile

soupmaker Wed 19-Dec-12 16:56:57

Settles down and awaits Sunday night. Have an idea of how this might all end. Only shares with DH so far. He is so not interested in my theories!

cocolepew Wed 19-Dec-12 17:18:30

grin

gypsyfloss Wed 19-Dec-12 17:36:57

That was excellent. St Saul was superb.

MulledPinot Wed 19-Dec-12 17:44:51

In the last 2 weeks I've watched S1 box set and S2 on 4OD. It has been my life !!

shock @ thoughts of Saul being moleymolerson. Nooooooooo. Maybe.

Series 3 is going to be about POTUS. Big actor lined up, I reckon. That's my theory anyway.

am enjoying al the theories (both here and elsewhere on the internet) and seeing who is right and who is wrong and who might be right but because it's Homeland we don't actually know

Fiderer Wed 19-Dec-12 17:54:58

Calm down, Pinot lovey grin

I watched all of S1 in a long up-half-the-night unputdownable just-one-more episode weekend. Was brilliant but before they'd been shown here so missed all the "who mole" "eh?" fun of the thread.

I have slipped once this series and watched ahead, so to speak, but it does ruin the theorising here so am being very restrained about the finale.

St Saul is most definitely a Good Egg. And I'm wavering about Quinn. Sure he's black ops but I think as he's not Estes' man, he may have a different agenda.

donnie Wed 19-Dec-12 17:56:32

well done! just marking my place too.

I hope St Mandy of Patinkin features heavily in the last episode because he was very absent last week sad having been fucked over by the dastardly Estes.

I have a new theory - what if Jessica manages to get hold of Carrie to demand the truth about THAT mad slanging match (in series 1 where she knows Brody is going to kill the veep but doesn't know how, and makes Dana call him just before he detonates his suicide vest). Then the whole truth unravels.....................

BTW Mamaus, another recommendation for you : in The Line of Duty; a fantastic BBC cop series which was on a while back. Really excellent.

donnie Wed 19-Dec-12 17:58:51

it does not seem to be available on DVD as yet but I just checked and it's still on iplayer !!!!

onedev Wed 19-Dec-12 18:09:17

Just marking my place & looking forward to the season finale grin

cornycarrotshack Wed 19-Dec-12 18:17:08

perhaps something will happen to Brodie's family, so it would then look weird if Brody was topped off when he was with Carrie rather than with his family. They're surplus to the storyline now I think. Brody has chosen Carrie.

I can't believe that his family would just be allowed to move back home like that without protection anyway.

I have always thought that Estes was a bad 'un though.

Cybbo Wed 19-Dec-12 18:17:13

IVE SEEN THE FINAL EPISODE

cornycarrotshack Wed 19-Dec-12 18:17:45

tease....

cornycarrotshack Wed 19-Dec-12 18:17:58

are any of the clues right....

Cybbo Wed 19-Dec-12 18:18:45

Erm..... reads..... No

It will blow your bootleg jeans clean off

cornycarrotshack Wed 19-Dec-12 18:19:22

oooher! shock can't wait!

donnie Wed 19-Dec-12 18:27:51

do you think it is possible that we are 'Homeland Sluts' ?

PseudoBadger Wed 19-Dec-12 18:41:20

Ooh shiny new thread. I'm so glad that Quinn is in my life grin

FrillyMilly Wed 19-Dec-12 18:56:44

I'm sure Estes did the cbeebies bedtime story the other week.

gypsyfloss Wed 19-Dec-12 18:57:14

grin at Homeland sluts. Sounds so much better than obsessives don't you think?

Marking place and hoping for a Quinntastic finale on Sunday (rubs hands)

HalleLouja Wed 19-Dec-12 20:01:59

Homeland Sluts has a nice ring about it. Or Quinn's Bitches?

cornycarrotshack Wed 19-Dec-12 20:04:10

The Homeland Harem

cocolepew Wed 19-Dec-12 20:22:36

St.Sauls disciples.
DH went to gbed and has't watched the last episode yet, how selfish. I need to test my theories out on him.

gypsyfloss Wed 19-Dec-12 20:22:59

HalleLouja I quite fancy being Saul's slapper but I suspect I might have to join a queue.

gypsyfloss Wed 19-Dec-12 20:26:15

I have theories too and feck all people to talk to about them. And I'm out on Sunday night and by the time I get to come on here on Monday you'll have all moved on.

Hey Coco can I test my theory out on you? grin as another of St Saul of the man-bag snackery disciples?

HalleLouja Wed 19-Dec-12 20:27:32

St Saul's disciples sounds like we are quite well to do. Rather than hanging onto some hot man called Quinn

cocolepew Wed 19-Dec-12 20:29:28

Please do gypsy grin

cornycarrotshack Wed 19-Dec-12 20:32:46

I'll be Saul's slapper. Or his snack slave.

Fiderer Wed 19-Dec-12 20:34:04

Saul can feed me peanut butter on crackers (spread with a ruler) while he consoles me when I have an argument with Quinn and am all cross.

I am now rather cross, as although I'm flying to the UK tomorrow for Christmas (hurrah!) and can watch Homeland on Sunday (more hurrahs!), I shall be without the web of internet (wail) and therefore threadless.

So may all your eyes be peeled and your theories flourish - and try not to let the black ops ruin your Christmas grin

gypsyfloss Wed 19-Dec-12 20:37:34

Right my conspiracy theory is winging your way...

donnie Wed 19-Dec-12 20:52:31

Saul's slut!
Brody's bitch!
Quinn's quinny!

I am all ofthe above and a Homeland WHORE!!!!!!!!!!! And proud........(grin)

gypsyfloss Wed 19-Dec-12 20:58:25

grin

cocolepew Wed 19-Dec-12 21:02:54

Ohhh gypsy, we're on the same page.

How do you unhide a thread? I've accidentally hidden this hmm.

gypsyfloss Wed 19-Dec-12 21:15:17

Oh no, don't know how to fix that.

Fiderer Wed 19-Dec-12 21:26:26

cocole go to Active Convos, scroll down and at the bottom is "Manage Hidden Threads"

<must pack and stop Homelanding!>

mcmooncup Wed 19-Dec-12 21:30:20

Estes used to be in Casualty right !?? In the good old days?

Hassled Wed 19-Dec-12 22:05:15

A whole shiny new thread - huzzah! Somewhere St Saul is smiling down fondly on us all.

Fiderer - for the sake of all that is right and Christmassy, find the internet! Where are you going that has no connection? Is it somewhere Brodie and Carrie might hole up while they discuss how to kill Estes?

Am proud to be a Homeland Slut.

Hassled Wed 19-Dec-12 22:07:30
LightHousekeeping Wed 19-Dec-12 22:12:43

Oh, I'm not going near it!

diddl Wed 19-Dec-12 22:16:49

´Tis not a trailer but a montage of things from eps 11(?) & 12.

It gives the ending of ep 12 away.

petshopgirls Wed 19-Dec-12 22:19:49

Oh damn damn damn just realised we are going out on Sunday evening and then on Monday DC are around all day and then we are out on Monday too. Christmas Day evening it is then for me. How on earth will I manage to wait that long AND avoid seeing any discussion of what happens on here/ Twitter?!

gypsyfloss Wed 19-Dec-12 22:21:48

Right slappers , sluts n bitches what are we collectively going to watch next?

I rarely watch tv and this bit of MN has given me The Wire, that pottery cross dresser who did the big artwork whose names escapes me, Claridges , last Tango in Halifax and of course ginger Nick, nice arse Quinn, beardy snackman Saul and mustn't forget Mike the faithful Labrador grin

I'm relying on you all to keep me entertained throughout the winter smile

petshopgirls Wed 19-Dec-12 22:51:03

I do like the sound of the Wire. I hardly watch TV too so if I'm going to it needs to be something good!

gypsyfloss Wed 19-Dec-12 23:16:50

It's brilliant. I was waxing lyrical about it on the other thread. Do give it a try, there's loads of it , about 5 or 6 seasons so plenty to get stuck in to.

donnie Wed 19-Dec-12 23:19:37

I just couldn't get on with the WIRE. however much I want to shag Idriss Elba, I just wasn't able to ....y'know....connect, as it were. He is utterly swoonsome though. (drool emoticon required)

Back in the day I was an NYPD Blue girl. Best theme tune/opening sequence ever IMO. The first two series were blinding!!!!

Now I am a Homeland Whore and proud.....grin

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Thu 20-Dec-12 00:03:41

Are we not missing the obvious about Claire Danes being pregnant and therefore most likely character to be killed galvez style and then make a miraculous come back mid season in series 3? Brody running round like a headless chicken trying to find Carrie/rescue her while being pulled from pillar to post by the goodies/baddies/inbetweenies? That's my theory anyway... Oh and I think Galvez has been on a basic acting training scheme in the 1st 2 series and now has put in enough hours to qualify for promotion to main player in the next series. Spurred on by the indignation that his burst stitches/being muslim put him in the frame for mole, he's going to go all out to prove himself to be a key actor character/good guy. Then flip at the end of the series. Ahem. grin

Wingedharpy Thu 20-Dec-12 04:03:28

I was so sure that Brody's house was going to be blown sky high when he dropped the family off but didn't go in himself.
There's time yet I suppose........
Maybe something of an exploding nature has been inserted into Galvez's abdominal cavity and that's why his wound had been opened up?...
This programme is filling my head with unhealthy thoughts.
Maybe as well it's the last one on Sunday for a while.
It will give my medication chance to work before the next series starts.

Gingerodgers Thu 20-Dec-12 04:25:07

Ooooo have seen the final episode too. We are just soooooo fu..... Modern in nz!! Not

diddl Thu 20-Dec-12 07:54:40

"Are we not missing the obvious about Claire Danes being pregnant"

Not any more, she isn´t!

cornycarrotshack Thu 20-Dec-12 08:05:18

grin
saw this morning that she's had her baby. awww!
Who is her husband - the article said he was a British actor? What's he been in?

diddl Thu 20-Dec-12 08:55:04

He was in The Big C recently.

HarkTheHattifattnerSing Thu 20-Dec-12 09:03:22

<SIghs happy sigh>. What a great programme. Watched the finale earlier this week, this has been one of the best TV dramas in a long while. I saw in the credits its based on an israeli show/book/play?

Look out for St Saul's facial expression at the end. I didnt know whether to laugh or cry.

MulledPinot Thu 20-Dec-12 11:26:35

I think Quinn is going to be a bigger character next series. Rupert Sexlicious Friend is too good an actor and a 'name' to miss.

Lordy, I love this show.

I actually have a Homeland based namechange ready for next series (I'm late for this one)

HalleLouja Thu 20-Dec-12 12:46:40

Maybe we could name change for the last episode.

Nancy66 Thu 20-Dec-12 13:30:33

I've just seen the final episode.

It's a goodie....

zamantha Fri 21-Dec-12 20:29:04

Want you all to watch it so we can talk about it. Lots to figure and hum and ah about. I also liked Saul's facial expression.

donnie Sat 22-Dec-12 14:50:56

well I just looked in the TV guide and tomorrow's episode is an hour and a half - oh joy!

Can't wait to watch it and then have a really detailed post episode analysis with all of you!

grin

Nancy66 Sat 22-Dec-12 14:57:33

it's actually only 63 minutes - so the rest must be filled with ads

donnie Sat 22-Dec-12 15:07:23

27 minutes of adverts - what an awful thought.

gypsyfloss Sat 22-Dec-12 17:21:15

My usual trick is to pause sky about 10 minutes before Homeland starts, then I am constantly playing catch up and can whizz thru the ads. By the last ad break I'm usually on normal playing time.
Can't wait to read everyone's thoughts smile

HalleLoujainHomelandWonderland Sat 22-Dec-12 19:27:25

Do you like my new Xmas and Homeland hybrid nickname change? grin

HalleLoujainHomelandWonderland Sat 22-Dec-12 19:27:49

I hate adverts!

gypsyfloss Sat 22-Dec-12 22:13:26

Very nice Halle smile

mamaus Sat 22-Dec-12 23:56:49

All of this Christmas business is seriously getting in the way of my Homeland obsessing! smile
Another Homeland whore signing in, can't wait.
Nice work on the name change Halle.

mamaus Sun 23-Dec-12 00:00:32

And thank you donnie for the In The Line of Duty recommendation, I shall add it to my off season list!

HalleLoujainHomelandWonderland Sun 23-Dec-12 12:36:02

I couldn't have the a in my name as mn unfairly restrict the number of characters. shock

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 12:40:02

I bloody hate Sunday Brunch showing a clip of tonight's show without warning. Aarrghh.

BlingBubbles Sun 23-Dec-12 12:46:17

I can't wait for the final either.... I think Quinn will turn out to be good and not want to kill Brody, he was giving Estes funny looks last week, carrie and brody are going to go on the run with Saul having to look for them and I just can't help thinking something else big is going to happen with regards to Nazir. Ooh I can't wait.

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 13:04:42

I don't think Nazir is dead.

Nancy66 Sun 23-Dec-12 13:07:34

Nazir is def dead....!

EuphemiaInExcelsis Sun 23-Dec-12 17:52:56

Quinn is sexeh. smile

Hassled Sun 23-Dec-12 19:45:46

OK - have managed to offend visiting relatives by spelling out to them that even though they've travelled thousands of miles to spend Christmas with my family, I will still be watching Homeland tonight. They've already seen it and, as pay back, are planning to tell me in advance of every scene what's going to happen next. I may well kill them, but not until I've watched Homeland.

mamaus Sun 23-Dec-12 20:09:44

Hassled, tell your guests not to be Homeland Scrooges! My guest has vowed to be on best behaviour and hold all questions until the end if the show grin
(Side note-- it's my Mom, also American and impressed by the Brits doing English accents)

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 20:18:44

Hassled if I were you I'd be killing guests before Homeland, you don't want any interruptions do you? grin

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 23-Dec-12 20:48:00

Yikes, I almost forgot about HOMELAND! Might have to go on +1, as am not very far ahead on My Christmas Tasks. And I can't multitask, as I'll utterly miss the plot.

soupmaker Sun 23-Dec-12 20:56:29

Meringues in the oven. Settling down on the sofa. DH banished. I'm ready.

ifancyashandy Sun 23-Dec-12 21:06:40

She's gonna find the Koran isn't she?!

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 21:07:54

Yes

I'm wondering if there is a bullet left in Carrie's gun?

helpyourself Sun 23-Dec-12 21:14:02

Aaargh they are so uncomfortable with each other. Is it bad acting?

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 21:14:43

What's Quinn waiting for?

Arithmeticulous Sun 23-Dec-12 21:15:37

Just get on and kill him, this is excruciating acting grin

why hasn't Quinn just done it? Why the wait?

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 21:15:44

I don't think it is bad acting, I think it supposed to show the tension between them.

PseudoBadger Sun 23-Dec-12 21:16:35

They are painting Quinn as almost watching over them. Is he going to end up saving them from someone else?

ifancyashandy Sun 23-Dec-12 21:18:06

Quinn to the rescue?! Maybe?? And yes, they are uncomfortable in a good way.

Hassled Sun 23-Dec-12 21:20:02

Not bad acting - actually I think they've done the whole uncomfortable actually having to talk to each other thing really well. It was meant to be excruciating.

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 21:20:37

Oh dear. Carrie don't go shopping!

ifancyashandy Sun 23-Dec-12 21:21:11

He's off to pray!

helpyourself Sun 23-Dec-12 21:21:31

YY it was uncomfortable and very good.

Arithmeticulous Sun 23-Dec-12 21:21:50

here we go...

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 21:21:58

Carrie will have forgotten something and come back and stop Quinn.

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 21:22:43

This is the bit they showed on Sunday Brunch this morning.

PseudoBadger Sun 23-Dec-12 21:23:45

Has he just offed beautiful Quinn?!

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 21:24:52

So has Brody killed Quinn? Did Brody bend down to pray just as Quinn fired?

Arithmeticulous Sun 23-Dec-12 21:25:12

is he going to do Estes instead??? shock

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 21:25:26

Apparently not grin

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 21:26:12

Wow Quinn is a good guy?!

PseudoBadger Sun 23-Dec-12 21:26:42

I love you even more Quinn

Sunnywithachanceofjinglebells Sun 23-Dec-12 21:29:07

I'm so surprised at Quinn.

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 23-Dec-12 21:32:58

I gave in and 're-prioritised' tasks so that I can Homeland in peace. Christmas can wait.

Bloody love Quinn. If he's good, that means that Estes is not, right? I fear for him now. Someone has got to die in the finale. I can't COunteance that it might be Saint Saul of Snacks. Damien Lewis has said he's contracted in for a few more seasons; I think Claire Danes also. So unless they were bluffing I think that Estes is not long for this (pretendy) world.

Selfishly, I hope that if that is true, David Harewood comes back to Britain and does lots of shirtless stuff over here. I love him rather a lot now, you see.

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 21:36:18

What is Estes up to? I assume he will be arranging to have Quinn removed.

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 23-Dec-12 21:43:04

It's the music of foreboding, people...

Something going to happen here?

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 21:43:56

I'm thinking that Walden's widow was married to George Clooney.

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 21:44:19

I'm sick of bloody ad breaks.

PseudoBadger Sun 23-Dec-12 21:44:23

Hmmm that's a gathering with many many important people <suspicious>

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 21:45:09

So there is going to be an attack in Nazir's name?

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 21:45:20

Or has Brody not really changed?

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 21:45:50

funny there is a GC Nespresso ad.

Arithmeticulous Sun 23-Dec-12 21:47:41

It's like the Dynasty wedding. But a funeral.

What's in the box? wink

Arithmeticulous Sun 23-Dec-12 21:49:21

Shit, I just Wiki'd the wife....

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 21:51:05

WTF Carrie? Noooo,

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 23-Dec-12 21:51:44

The Dynasty wedding! Was it the crown prince of Moldavia?

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 23-Dec-12 21:51:59

A bang is coming!

Sunnywithachanceofjinglebells Sun 23-Dec-12 21:52:14

Oh shit...

PseudoBadger Sun 23-Dec-12 21:52:26

Shit!

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 21:52:48

So who did that?

Arithmeticulous Sun 23-Dec-12 21:52:52

oops

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 23-Dec-12 21:52:59

Bang.

Bye bye Estes. Who else deaded?
Shit, lots of people by the looks of it.

ifancyashandy Sun 23-Dec-12 21:53:16

Holy fucking crap!!! Saul IS the bad guy!!!! I think....

PseudoBadger Sun 23-Dec-12 21:53:22

Did Saul do that??

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 23-Dec-12 21:53:57

Not Saul! Never Saul!

Sunnywithachanceofjinglebells Sun 23-Dec-12 21:54:05

I think Brody was set up. Is Saul the bad guy?

ifancyashandy Sun 23-Dec-12 21:54:24

Well, he ain't there....

AppleOgies Sun 23-Dec-12 21:54:31

Saul has something to do with this.

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 21:54:31

I don't believe him either.

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 23-Dec-12 21:54:37

Saul, I have faith in you. Ignore these naysayers.

Fuck, it was Brody's car???

So, was it him?

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 21:54:56

I'm wondering about Saul too.

ifancyashandy Sun 23-Dec-12 21:55:01

And he would have been able to get access.

helpyourself Sun 23-Dec-12 21:55:10

Abu nazir cell?
Final revenge on Brodie, his car...

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 23-Dec-12 21:55:31

Not. Saul.

AppleOgies Sun 23-Dec-12 21:55:49

It's Saul I tells ya!

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 23-Dec-12 21:56:24

I think another cell, or brody. And that will be Season 3 - is brody good or bad? Should carrie believe him or not? Is it really love?

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 23-Dec-12 21:57:10

Noooooo. Not Saul. Never Saul. For he is righteous.

(I'm going to look a pratt if it IS Saul, aren't I?)

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 21:58:12

How did they get out of Langley?

AppleOgies Sun 23-Dec-12 21:58:15

Naaahhh it is Brodie!

Arithmeticulous Sun 23-Dec-12 21:58:44

Saul wouldn't have killed Carrie, surely? So it's not Saul. It's Nazir. Or Brody.

AppleOgies Sun 23-Dec-12 21:58:47

No it's Saul... No Brodie... Definitely Brodie... Maybe Saul.

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 23-Dec-12 21:59:15

But it's not Saul though.

ifancyashandy Sun 23-Dec-12 21:59:51

Saul would kill Carrie if he thought she was running off with Brodie

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 23-Dec-12 22:00:08

Hey. is Carrie's 'insurance policy' a bit suss?

Normal for a CIA? An outcome of her MH issues?

Or a sign that she is A Baddie ??

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 22:00:23

Did Quinn do it?

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 23-Dec-12 22:00:32

RIP Beautiful Estes.

AppleOgies Sun 23-Dec-12 22:00:53

It's Saul.

ifancyashandy Sun 23-Dec-12 22:00:57

Oh my. Is it Carrie?!?

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 23-Dec-12 22:01:15

It's not Saul.

Is he top CIA dog now?

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 22:01:46

Carrie was the one that got up and left at the right time. I can't believe it is her but it is not looking good.

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 23-Dec-12 22:01:51

How can you not trust him?

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 22:03:20

He is just calling to check she is dead. He was angry at her throwing away her CIA career on Brody so I reckon he thought she was dispensable (if he is a baddie).

AppleOgies Sun 23-Dec-12 22:05:53

God that Brad Pitt advert is awful!

Arithmeticulous Sun 23-Dec-12 22:07:26

Shouldnt they be wearing hats and fake taches?

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 22:07:59

Why haven't they traced Carrie's car?

AppleOgies Sun 23-Dec-12 22:08:15

What did he do with his vest bomb?

Arithmeticulous Sun 23-Dec-12 22:09:15

Shit!! How did they get that? From Saul?

AppleOgies Sun 23-Dec-12 22:09:23

Did Saul leak that or is it Nazir's people.

ifancyashandy Sun 23-Dec-12 22:09:25

Leaked by Saul?! (Vid I mean)

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 23-Dec-12 22:09:34

Oooh, the video's been released!
You're all going to say that this proves that Saul is a baddy. I still have faith in him. This is part of Nazir's plan.

mildred37 Sun 23-Dec-12 22:10:16

Holy fuck!

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 23-Dec-12 22:10:19

So Dana totally knows that (with vest bomb) he WAS going to kill himself and others, that that WAS a final goodbye. But that this wasn't.

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 22:10:21

So is the next series Brody and Carrie on the run?

Isn't that Nazir?

AppleOgies Sun 23-Dec-12 22:10:27

Brodie is f**ked!

drmummmsy Sun 23-Dec-12 22:10:30

saul shock surely it's Quinn??

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 23-Dec-12 22:10:52

In other news, did you see that Claire Danes had her baby? Was that since last episode?

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 23-Dec-12 22:12:07

Awww! Mrs Saul!

coffeeinbed Sun 23-Dec-12 22:12:33

But Saul and Quinn know it's the old video.
So unless they leaked it..

SilverSky Sun 23-Dec-12 22:12:37

Awesome twist!

Arithmeticulous Sun 23-Dec-12 22:12:40

Where is Quinn?
Mike is going to think he did it because of the conversation in the bar.

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 22:14:13

Yes, where is Quinn? I reckon he is on their tail.

Sunnywithachanceofjinglebells Sun 23-Dec-12 22:14:34

OMG she's staying! I didn't see that coming.

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 22:14:53

Carrie is in deep shit so I don't understand why she isn't going with him.

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 22:15:16

Series 3 - Carrie fights for Brody. Boring.

AppleOgies Sun 23-Dec-12 22:15:43

Carrie is infuriating. As is Brodie's daughter.

So next season the CIA will welcome her back with open arms?!

SilverSky Sun 23-Dec-12 22:16:05

It'd be much more interesting of they both went on the run, non?

ifancyashandy Sun 23-Dec-12 22:16:25

Old video?? Explain please.

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 22:16:33

"Cos you gave it up to me" Could someone translate what that means? confused

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 22:17:02

Old video he did for the vest bomb.

coffeeinbed Sun 23-Dec-12 22:17:04

the one carrie found in beirut.

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 22:17:53

So there is Nazir's 300 bodies.

WTF is Saul doing praying in Arabic????

ifancyashandy Sun 23-Dec-12 22:18:07

But what was the difference in vids? Can't remember.

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 23-Dec-12 22:18:07

It's Hebrew

Arithmeticulous Sun 23-Dec-12 22:18:27

She "gave up" herself, I think, she was honest with him.

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 22:18:28

Or is it Hebrew?

SilverSky Sun 23-Dec-12 22:18:41

So is Saul dodge?

coffeeinbed Sun 23-Dec-12 22:18:43

Ivrit

AppleOgies Sun 23-Dec-12 22:18:48

It's Hebrew

Sunnywithachanceofjinglebells Sun 23-Dec-12 22:18:53

I think Saul was praying for the dead in Hebrew.

I don't think he dunnit.

MrsReiver Sun 23-Dec-12 22:19:01

Isn't he praying in Hebrew? He's Jewish.

VivaLeBeaver Sun 23-Dec-12 22:19:05

Aren't they going to be suspicious about where she's been?

Arithmeticulous Sun 23-Dec-12 22:19:36

That was a demented grin from Saul - was he happy or just thinking he'd have to kill her again?

soupmaker Sun 23-Dec-12 22:20:23

Brilliant. Loved it. But how is she going to explain that.

ifancyashandy Sun 23-Dec-12 22:20:29

Beautiful music

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 22:20:35

So Series 3 with St Saul in charge and Carrie clearing Brody's name? Where is Quinn? Has he signed up for the next series?

HazeltheMcWitch Sun 23-Dec-12 22:21:09

See!!! He a goody. Carrie also a goody.

Brody - tbc but I think it was not him this time.

Estes a baddy, but a lovely one.

Quinn / Dar Udal? Think they're meant to be black ops, so theoretically both, right? But all that guff Quinn was spouting about 'he kills terrorists' was meant to be saying that he's good deep down. Not sure why he's disappeared.

MrsReiver Sun 23-Dec-12 22:21:52

I see DH isn't the only one who thinks Saul is dodgy.

I'm keeping the faith.

VivaLeBeaver Sun 23-Dec-12 22:21:58

I think Quinn will be hunting Brody on the run.

coffeeinbed Sun 23-Dec-12 22:23:42

There has to be a reason Saul's wife in suddenly in the picture again.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 23-Dec-12 22:24:46

I think carrie can convince Quinn that brody is a goodie albeit with slightly suicidal terrorist tendencies and recruit him to her 'cause' in clearing his name.

ifancyashandy Sun 23-Dec-12 22:27:10

Mrs Saul called to make sure the plan had gone to plan. Maybe.

coffeeinbed Sun 23-Dec-12 22:28:32

hmm
and the woman terrorist asked about her..
well dodgy.

BlingBubbles Sun 23-Dec-12 22:28:57

Brilliant ending to a great season.

I think Quinn will come back and help carrie clear brody's name, Saul an brody know that the tape is old. I definitely don't think Saul is the leak he was on a ship when the car was moved, someone from the CIA is definitely in on it as they must have moved his car.

Ooh can't wait till next season

Hassled Sun 23-Dec-12 22:29:16

Oh my lordy lord - that was good.

I'm not convinced it wasn't Brodie. I hope it wasn't Brodie - but his reaction to the Walden eulogy, his reaction to Nazir's death - he hasn't fully lost the faith there, I don't think.

And yes, where is Dar Adul in all this? Will Carrie tell Saul that Brodie is alive and well and in a Newfoundland fishing boat (to where?)?

Hassled Sun 23-Dec-12 22:30:51

And yes, Mrs Saul's sudden reappearance has to be significant.

donnie Sun 23-Dec-12 22:31:01

I was right all along - it WAS Saul. I knew it.

I really liked the way they paralleled the two funerals of The Veep ,with all the thousands of dignitaries, and Nazir, with barely anyone there at all.

Now that Estes is gone, Saul is off the hook. That means he can precipitate the leaking of the Brody recorded suicide message as if it is current. Nobody else except arrie even knew about it and Saul probably thought she was dead as well.

Loved it whan he said to her "you are the cleverest and dumbest person I know

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 23-Dec-12 22:32:19

Where was Galvez when all this kicked off? hmm

coffeeinbed Sun 23-Dec-12 22:33:18

It doesn't make sense though.
Why would the terrorists use the old video - they know the CIA found it it and so the CIA knows it's old.

donnie Sun 23-Dec-12 22:33:30

But how long will we have to wait for the next series? that is my big worry............sunday nights will just not be the same sad

FlourFace Sun 23-Dec-12 22:33:41

I'm not convinced it was Saul...

Why do you think it was?

donnie Sun 23-Dec-12 22:34:18

I am just watching the re-run on channel 4 +1!

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 23-Dec-12 22:34:26

Depends on the length of maternity leave in Danes' contract. Anyone got the inside info on that?smile

FlourFace Sun 23-Dec-12 22:34:43

Hebrew prayer.

cocolepew Sun 23-Dec-12 22:36:01

Ohh I forhot everyone will have watched it.

Here's my tuppence worth. Brody is a Baddie. How could anyone but him leave the car there? It's in CIA HQ.

Saul, Saul, Saul sad. I'm back to thinking he is. Bad Man. I half expected him,when he was on the ship, to turn and grin manically at the camera while his eyes glowed red sad

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 22:37:52

So when did he move the car? We saw him park it between other cars not on its own.

FlourFace Sun 23-Dec-12 22:38:47

Someone could have nicked Brody's keys! Or hot wired it. Or just bloody pushed it.

Terrorists can blow big shit up - they can get to a car! grin

cocolepew Sun 23-Dec-12 22:39:56

Is the video being shown to make it look like it was the cia bombing Brody was talking about? I'm going to watch the end on 4+1

Surely its suspicious that Brody would get up and walk away during the memorial service?

donnie Sun 23-Dec-12 22:41:07

I had my suspicions about Saul all along although I had retracted them a few episodes ago.

TBH I don't know any more.

Weird that Brody told Dana everything about the suicide vest though, don't you think? why did he confess like that, surely unleashing information like that would be catastrophic. he told her he wouldn't do anything like that now. I think he has been framed for the bombing.

It has to be Saul - he asked carrie to go with him to the Nasir burial at sea and even when she said no he tried to persuade her. When he called her dumb he didn't just mean about Brody - he meant going to Walden's funeral was a dumb decision.

That's my tuppence worth!

cocolepew Sun 23-Dec-12 22:41:19

But there would have been loads of security. It would have ad to be someone that didn't cause suspicion.

Nancy66 Sun 23-Dec-12 22:43:02

Nah - no way is it Saul. It's Brodie all along

FrillyMilly Sun 23-Dec-12 22:46:36

Sauls wife called because Carrie had said she didn't want to end up old and lonely like Saul so it was a soppy moment. I don't think that was a demented grin, he was happy carrie is alive because he loves her like a daughter. I think CIA leaked video to pin it all on Brody so they don't have to look for anyone else. Will Quinn be in it again? If he's black ops and his mission is over wont he just go on to somewhere else?

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 22:47:36

Whose idea was it to leave the memorial service? I think Brody and Saul may be working together.

donnie Sun 23-Dec-12 22:49:17

yes bisjo I am coming around to that way of thinking as well.

BUT WHERE IS QUINN?

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 22:50:30

Just watched on 4+1. Carrie left first but at Brody's signal.

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 22:51:16

Quinn wasn't on the ship and wasn't at the service. Maybe he was doing the valet parking at the service?!

FloatyBeatie Sun 23-Dec-12 22:52:01

That was a great episode. I'm glad she didn't go with him. I was worried that she had forgotten to bring her meds.

I don't like to think that Brody is guilty -- if he's innocent the final episode of this series is such a perfect mirror image of the climax of the last:

Series 2 ending: Brody is not a terrorist, bomb goes off, everyone thinks him guilty;

versus

Series 1 ending: Brody is a terrorist but bomb doesn't go off, everyone thinks him innocent.

Sad that Dana now thinks her dad was lying to her in the moment when he told her the truth.

cocolepew Sun 23-Dec-12 22:52:58

Ohhh Brody looks nervous and staring out of the window instead of kissing carrie.

He's guilty I tell you!

difficultpickle Sun 23-Dec-12 22:53:08

Next series - Dana will trust Carrie.

BlingBubbles Sun 23-Dec-12 22:56:07

Nasir had the the tape of brody all along, brody left it for him in season 1, Saul then found it at the beginning of season 2. So the terrorists had a copy of it so it was easy for them to send it to the press and make it look like it was for the bombing at the funeral. All the special task team knew about the video, not only Saul and carrie.

We will just have to wait and see what happens in season 3.

They will only start shooting it NRA the summer so I am sure Clare Danes will be back then.

cocolepew Sun 23-Dec-12 22:57:25

Hmmm he has the reason it was Nazir down too pat for my liking.
DH watched it off the planner last night. We were talking about it and it turned out it hadn't recorded it all. He didn't realise carrie hadn't gone hmm

Hassled Sun 23-Dec-12 22:59:40

Yes - it was all a bit coincidental that at the precise moment Carrie is giving up her career for him and they're in a loving embrace, Brodie just happens to spot that his car has been moved. Does CCTV footage survive massive fireballs?

And yes - agree the CIA would have leaked the old video to the press. As far as we know, Al Qu'ada don't have it anymore anyway - not since Carrie lifted it from the Beirut flat.

Hassled Sun 23-Dec-12 23:02:03

Also - Quinn now knows that Brodie is a Muslim.

a) no-one else in the CIA knows that apart from Carrie and b) having seen Brodie pray, Quinn then decides he doesn't deserve to die (which is a conclusion he really could have come to before the stalking in the woods). Is that significant?

FloatyBeatie Sun 23-Dec-12 23:17:01

Do you think there even is a determinate answer yet, to the question of whether Brody is guilty, and who else might have been involved?

Perhaps it hasn't been written, and they will shape it partly on the basis of discussions like the ones on this thread. We can make Brody innocent by wishing it to be so.

Whether or not it is written, they can make him innocent or guilty regardless of clues or plausibility, so trying to work it out is thankless (though fun).

scarletfestivefingernail Sun 23-Dec-12 23:17:11

Wow what a brilliant episode.

I'm on the fence re Saul. I don't want him to be bad, but we still don't know who helped the hostage in the first series commit suicide. I also think his wife must be relevant somehow, the fact she is being brought back in.

Actually I'm on the fence re everyone! I'm none the wiser as to who is good and who is bad.

I watched this series thinking that they really should stop it at 2, but now after watching that last episode I can't wait for series 3 to start.

BOFingSanta Sun 23-Dec-12 23:30:10

Saul is a good man- there is absolutely no way he would kill hundreds of innocent people. It would make a mockery of his entire career.

abithormonal Sun 23-Dec-12 23:32:27

I think Dana did it, young naive girl, hero worships the now muslim dad and sees how corrupt the 'establishment' is so is easliy turned by Nasir

abithormonal Sun 23-Dec-12 23:34:32

Oh yeah she could have found the vest and also would have had a spare set of keys to Brodies car

Also think Quinn has a massive crush on Carrie, in an unrequited self sacrificing way is why he's not killed Brodie

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 24-Dec-12 00:07:51

That would explain him showing her his hairy arse then grin

petshopgirls Mon 24-Dec-12 00:12:50

Carrie and Dana will pair up together in series 3 to try and clear Brody's name.

Saul - don't know what to think. Maybe that look at the end was actually horror that she IS alive so might out him as a mole.

I don't believe Brody did it. He was clearly stitched up as Abu Nazir's revenge against him.

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 00:27:09

I can't believe people are still suspicious of Saul. It makes no sense whatsoever.

gypsyfloss Mon 24-Dec-12 00:39:41

At last I'm home so I can catch up with everyone's thoughts.

I think Brody is still bad and I really thought he was going to snap Carrie's neck in the woods. I think he used her to get safe passage out of the country and I wouldn't trust him as far as I could chuck him.

Saul I am very suspicious about . He plays his cards close to his chest . I found the whole burial at sea thing very detailed for a world feared terrorist. Or maybe he was trying to show his humanity to all men? I agree that his wife is back for a reason, we never found out exactly why she went before, other than his dedication to the service .

I really wasn't going to bother with season 3 but the ending has hooked me back in again . How long do we have to wait?

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 01:04:56

I was a bit baffled by Brodie having his fake passport photo taken without any kind of disguise. He is supposed to be one of the most famous politicians in America- yet he's hoping that even now that he is World's Most Wanted Terrorist, he will fool border control with just a fake name?

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 01:48:41

Oh, and on the subject of Saul being bad- why on earth would a Jewish person become a supporter of Islamic terror plots? It makes no sense at all.

HalleLoujainHomelandWonderland Mon 24-Dec-12 05:54:37

I thought the same about Saul being Jewish doesn't make sense him being on the Muslims side.

Maybe the actress playing his wife is coming back in season three and that's an easy way of reintroducing her. I think saul is innocent.

Also I did think Nazir gave the info too easily to Brody especially as Brody had the massive wobble. So maybe it was part of the plan all along. To stitch up Brody as they had the tasty home video all along.

HalleLoujainHomelandWonderland Mon 24-Dec-12 05:57:05

If Brody didn't double cross Nazir then they would have bombed the soldiers home coming anyway.

gypsyfloss Mon 24-Dec-12 08:33:58

I agree that it is odd to doubt Saul but I do because he doesn't give anything anyway. I see him as having an internal view which is about humanity but not necessarily one that the state would approve of.Does that make sense?
Do we know that he is Jewish or are we assuming that? Could he have for example a Jewish mother and a father who is Arabic and could that explain his world view?
I wonder of the writers of Homeland realise just how much time is given to pouring over the minutiae of their work? grin

LightHousekeeping Mon 24-Dec-12 09:51:14

To me Saul been Jewish makes no difference. He's clearly not religious if you look at his wife. Unless she is Jewish but, I'd be surprised. He did speak about it in the first series when he was driving the woman terrorist back. I just can't remember what he said!!

I don't want him to be bad though. I'm glad his wife is coming back but I agree that it was strange for her to come into it like that.

Eowyn Mon 24-Dec-12 09:53:46

Hello, thoughts that formed during the night: I think Quinn "I kill bad guys" will feel massively guilty for not killing Brodie & spend next series hunting him down.
Also think/hope Carrie & Dana will talk but Carrie may waver due to the strange kissing incident.
I don't believe Saul is bad, if he was there is no solid foundation left.

LightHousekeeping Mon 24-Dec-12 09:54:48
bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 24-Dec-12 11:13:38

That's a really interesting analysis of Saul's character. Reminded me of bits of the 1st season I'd overlooked/forgotten. I think it's convinced me I've no idea if he's good or bad, and probably won't ever know til the end is nigh.

cornystollenslave Mon 24-Dec-12 11:16:10

Brody did it.
Quinn will hunt him down.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 24-Dec-12 11:24:11

I am edging towards that conclusion too. We didn't see/hear what was said when he disappeared in the helicopter and there was also the conversation with Roya when they couldn't hear what was being said. I think he is a baddy. Just not sure if Saul is too. He's just too good in this.

HazeltheMcWitch Mon 24-Dec-12 11:27:38

I think the Saul-praying thing was meant to highlight the fact that he is NOT driven by any other outside forces. So whilst Brody was being 'driven' by Nazir, and Quinn by Estes, and Nazir by his desire for revenge, and Carrie by her ambition/feelings for terrorist Brody, Saul was the only one who stayed true.

So he could not be corrupted form the cause, nor threatened by Estes/Dar Adal. He stayed faithful to his (paternalistic) love for Carrie, and his belief in all things good. This lost him his wife, and the respect of some in the CIA and put him under suspicion.

So even at the lowest point, ie surrounded by 200 dead bodies, obv a big CIA chuff-up somewhere, he thinks Carrie is dead, he's all alone - his instinct is to pray for the dead. Ie that prayer highlights that he's above all, a Good Man. (and that it was a Jewish prayer is incidental). And his wife coming home - ad later him seeing that Carrie's actually alive - is the start of the tide turning for him.

Have I mentioned that I love Saul?

HazeltheMcWitch Mon 24-Dec-12 11:29:59

The bit that does not sit well with me is - why did Quinn NOT kill Brody? He (Quinn) is a professional killer, he would not give a toss about taking out someone whist they were praying. And Brody WAS a terrorist.

I don't buy that any feelings for Carrie prevented Quinn from killing Brody.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 24-Dec-12 11:30:27

I think we all love Saul. smile

RedToothbrush Mon 24-Dec-12 11:32:08

If Saul if a baddie then the shark is officially jumped.

DH think they are setting him up as one too.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 24-Dec-12 11:32:58

Maybe he is part of the 'bigger picture' and 'they' did not know whether brody was still faithful to Islam/the cause. He realised he was when he saw him praying, hence the turnaround.

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 11:33:39

I agree with you about Saul being the moral compass of the show.

HazeltheMcWitch Mon 24-Dec-12 11:34:37

OOh, bunch - interesting ! So that'd support the theory that Quinn is a baddy but on Nazir's side, so a double-agent in with Estes...

HazeltheMcWitch Mon 24-Dec-12 11:36:40

Thanks boffles I am glad you have also kept the faith. I was a lone voice of reason last night when all the doubters were throwing shade at Poor, Good Saul.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 24-Dec-12 11:39:56

It would make an interesting twist, Quinn helping carrie clear Brody's name knowing that he was actually instrumental in the ultimate hit on the CIA. No one would have challenged Quinn moving Brody's car, and it would have had to be someone with clearance to get onto CIA property. I still think Galvez had more to play in this story. He'll be the only one other than carrie/Saul left, assuming he wasn't there as his stitches burst in previous episode.

Wingedharpy Mon 24-Dec-12 12:25:58

I also think that Quinn was responsible for the bombing.
I thought it was significant that he seemed fully prepared to shoot Brody until he saw him praying, hence demonstrating that while Brody may have lost the faith, so to speak, with Nazir and his methods, he had retained the greater faith ie, Islam.
At that point Quinn decides not to shoot him - but that doesn't mean that in Quinn's eyes, Brody is not expendable.
Car bomb incident sets up Brody nicely as the perpetrator - a "fact" supported by the old VT, and CIA won't be looking for anyone else to blame on as they'll think Brody was the villain.
Only Carrie (and Brody) knows that the tape was old and that the words in it do not relate to this bombing AND that someone moved Brody's car from where he had originally parked it.
Brody's family now think that he was a terrorist all along.
Therefore, Carrie couldn't go with Brody as she is the only one who is in a position to find out the truth (no-one else will be looking) and clear Brody's name.
Once she's done that, then they can all live happily ever after.

Wingedharpy Mon 24-Dec-12 12:30:28

Meant to say also,
I think Quinn is a Muslim too.

Wingedharpy Mon 24-Dec-12 12:32:32

So Quinn sacrifices Brody, his Muslim brother, for the greater good.
(From a fanatics viewpoint IYKWIM).

HalleLoujainHomelandWonderland Mon 24-Dec-12 12:35:28

Saul knows the vt is old too.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 24-Dec-12 12:35:45

You know, as much as all the holes/implausible stuff was irritating in the 2nd series, I love discussing all the theories like thisgrin I think the holes/ambiguity have been deliberate to make all this 'debate' much more interesting - it's what keeps us watching after all! And Saul is just the best character as he's just so unreadable yet utterly compelling at the same time. How long do we wait for the 3rd series again? grin

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 24-Dec-12 12:38:44

Thinking back to when Quinn skewered Brody's hand, it kind of all fits. I can't quite put into words why, but that makes more sense now somehow. grin

gypsyfloss Mon 24-Dec-12 12:51:43

Oh I hadn't thought of Quinn also being a Muslim.

cocolepew Mon 24-Dec-12 12:57:38

I was talking to my mum about it just now. I said I still had doubts about Saul, she told me to go and wash my mouth out grin

gypsyfloss Mon 24-Dec-12 13:20:43

Haha coco .

HazeltheMcWitch Mon 24-Dec-12 13:24:08

coco - your mum is clearly a wise woman. You must heed her.

RedToothbrush Mon 24-Dec-12 13:45:32

Quinn. The only survivor of the massacre of CIA agents whilst searching the offices; source of leak about this search still apparently unclear.

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 14:25:23

See, I just don't believe the writers would mess with us like that. The way Brodie is portrayed, we are supposed to always wonder at his motives; that's a given. And Quinn has always been a shadowy figure, so I can buy that he might not be all he seems. But Saul has had a long history of dedicated service to the CIA, is known as being a man of principle and ethics (hence Dar Adul sneering that he was 'too soft' in the beard-off), and as a Jew- cultural or religious- he would simply have no reason at all to participate in any kind of Jihad. It just doesn't fit with his character, and it would be very lazy writing to suddenly turn him into an evil criminal genius. I think the writers enjoys plot twists and playing with us that way, but they always try to stick to the basic truth of their characters. I think it would destroy the integrity of the show to do otherwise, and undermine their whole premise.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 24-Dec-12 14:33:58

I agree with your thinking there BOF. I was reading some stuff earlier on Mandy Patinkin, and he is a man of principle too. I think the writers have to tread carefully in how they develop this line on Saul as I think if they turned him into THE baddy, he would bugger off on principle. It seems he did that on Criminal Minds, and also walked from Chicago Hope (reasons not as clear but he has a habit of walking away if not happy). So, I'm pegging all my theories to the Saint Saul train of thought. I need to believe Saul is Good, cos I can't handle anything else. Not at Xmas. The Santa thing is enough of a headfuck tbh. grin

HalleLoujainHomelandWonderland Mon 24-Dec-12 17:19:33

Coco I think your mum should come and join us as she seems to talk sense!

vjg13 Mon 24-Dec-12 18:34:23

I thought Quinn deciding not to kill Brody was rubbish. He is a soldier who would follow his orders.
Saul was saying Kaddish, which is the mourner's prayer for Jewish people. I think he's a goody too.

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 19:03:42

I don't know- I think that Quinn compartmentalises and justifies his role by only killing "bad guys". I think that he would feel insulted to be used just to cover Estes' arse. And I do think that he has feelings of tenderness towards Carrie. It was a mistake really to put him on a team with her if they wanted him to be a cold-blooded hitman: she inspires unswerving loyalty and protectiveness in the people close to her. Look at her relationship with Saul, and Virgil. It's not outside the realm of possibility that he would come to respect and admire her.

HalleLoujainHomelandWonderland Mon 24-Dec-12 19:08:51

She did find Nazir but figuring out what Roya said. He trusted her - even after the Galvez mishap.

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 19:37:10

And now poor Galvez is dead sad

Did anyone else think it was odd that Carrie and Brodie seemed just as near to the exploding car as the memorial service attendees, yet their part of the building was pretty much unscathed?

I still wonder about Brodie. It was odd that he signalled her to bunk out after looking at his watch.

cocolepew Mon 24-Dec-12 19:41:26

Ok I'll listen to my mum, Saul is still a good guy smile I decided that Quinn is dodgy now <fickle>

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 24-Dec-12 19:45:58

Is Galvez dead? I missed his name being mentioned as being part of the victims killed.

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 19:59:25

Yup sad

MrsReiver Mon 24-Dec-12 20:00:02

Galvez was only an analyst, and he was pretty badly injured - I don't think he'd have been at the memorial. His wikia gives his status as deceased, but that doesn't mean anything.

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 20:02:17

I've seen it mentioned on homeland blogs that he was flagged up as dead in the episode though.

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 20:06:37

I think that the memorial service was a special CIA one though, not his official national one (if that had happened yet- I suppose they might cancel it if it were yet to take place), because the VP had been closely involved with them. Hence why the President wasn't in attendance, and it was held at Langton. So as an in-house thing, Galvez attending would be unsurprising.

MrsReiver Mon 24-Dec-12 20:09:18

Ah yes, very true. The whole "George Bush Centre for Intelligence" on the wall always makes me laugh. That's an oxymoron if ever I saw one. grin

I hope he's not dead, I really liked him - a very underused character this season.

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 20:30:45

Oh, I'd not noticed that- snooort grin

no saul is good, quinn is good, he likes carrie,

i think it was abu nazir's men who planted bomb, to explode just as abu nazir's body was t

thrown into sea.
and not sure who released video of brodie, but saul still believes he is a terrorist, well he was a terrorist, so it could well ahve been cia that released video, i doubt it was abu nazir releasing that video, they released their own video.

abu nazir's men assumed brodie would be killed too, I thought it was carys that gesterd to leave the room because she wanted to tell brodie she had decided to stay with him

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 20:42:55

They were eyebrow-waggling each other, weren't they? But I thought it was Brodie who definitively said 'Let's go', iyswim?

I also thought that Nazir's lot released the video (they obviously had a copy) as it was their plan to implicate Brodie, as a massive propaganda triumph to show the Americans that one of their own had broken ranks. Also, to punish Brodie for letting them down.

ohmeohmy Mon 24-Dec-12 20:46:53

Just watched again, Brodie gives his car key surrepticiously to a soldier as he enters the building, shakes his hand and says 'sir'. Guilty!

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 20:49:45

Could be, could be...or it was just a valet service?

HalleLoujainHomelandWonderland Mon 24-Dec-12 20:55:20

Maybe it was a valet service or you have to give your key as part of CIA rules.

but it cant have been valet service otherwise how would brodie have known his car had been moved?

wahtever happened to his vest btw?

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 20:58:41

Both excellent questions...hmm, I may have to watch it again!

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 24-Dec-12 21:21:25

The1st signal for them to leave the memorial comes from Carrie. I watched that bit again earlier and she makes the 1st signal a split 2nd before he nods to her to go. hmm It gets weirder and weirder...

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 21:28:11

It's on 4seven again now! I'm re-watching the second half...

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 21:32:13

Hmm, DP has pointed out that Carrie and Brodie, although near to the car, we're about six storeys up, so maybe that's why they were out of the blast zone? Any physicists about?

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 21:34:12

I still can't understand why he would just have his usual photo on his fake passport...he's FAMOUS! hmm

HalleLoujainHomelandWonderland Mon 24-Dec-12 21:34:26

Maybe he wanted Carrie to think he was innocent by pretending he didn't know his car was moved.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 24-Dec-12 21:35:02

I think they were on the opposite side of the blast i.e. the main thrust of the blast was aimed away from where they were and they got the 'back blast'. I've no idea if that is the correct terminology but kind of explains what I mean.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 24-Dec-12 21:36:40

Not just famous BOF but a red head to boot. Not exactly easy to blend in with his colouring, and the narrowest mouth ever seen.

difficultpickle Mon 24-Dec-12 21:37:18

He parked his own car in a parking space. Maybe they have to hand keys in? Or maybe that was all part of Brody's plan <<guilty as hell>>

difficultpickle Mon 24-Dec-12 21:39:13

Didn't Brody look at his watch before Carrie signalled? Then she signalled, he nodded and she got up and left.

EuphemiaInExcelsis Mon 24-Dec-12 21:42:05

Could that exchange just have been "Fuck me, how long is this fucking boring, hypocritical guff going to go on, I'm outa here. You coming?"

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 21:46:45

Damn, I just missed the keys bit!

I was revelling in Saul's "You're the smartest and the dumbest fucking person I've ever known" line again, and looked down to type angry...

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 21:47:51

And yes, Euphemia, that's definitely the innocent explanation.

God, I have no idea grin

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 21:57:37

Interesting discussion about the keys here...and on rewatching, I'd say that Carrie instigates the bunking off for a a quickie, rather than Brodie.

But, up in the office they go to for their private moment, Brodie is looking well shifty, and inexplicably glancing towards the window as though he is expecting something. Oooooooh...

petshopgirls Mon 24-Dec-12 21:58:19

If Brody did this, wouldn't he have wanted to die a martyr as is the way with such things? Nazir was stitching him up to get him back.

difficultpickle Mon 24-Dec-12 22:05:51

Brody would want to die a martyr for a big event. Maybe there are bigger plans for him (series 3 without him would be hard).

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 22:08:56
petshopgirls Mon 24-Dec-12 22:09:35

I'm now SURE Brody didn't do it. There's also the Dana line about her view of his behaviour that morning.

Just watching again and I think Saul is not the mole. His reaction to Carrie being unaccounted for is telling.

cornystollenslave Mon 24-Dec-12 22:32:59

someone has been leaking info for a while, which means that the mole isn't likely to be Quinn

Perhaps Estes wanted Brody to be killed because he was the mole so knew that Brody was working for the CIA. Estes could have moved the car and sacrificed himself.

Brody could have asked Mike to look after his family as he knew what was going to happen. He told Dana about the vest because he knew that she was about to find out anyway. He was going to sacrifice himself but changed his mind when Carrie signalled for them to leave.
Did he know that Carrie was going to be there?

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 22:43:01

On the subject of the mole, I think it's a bit of a red herring. An organisation that big could be leaking like a sieve; I don't think that there is necessarily any one mastermind behind it. Roya was a political journalist with contacts she could have cultivated, and there might be several others like her: people who pick up bits and pieces here and there, perhaps from operatives or support staff (those typists who 'redact' the documents?) etc, who don't even understand the importance of the information they might be giving away. So we could be groping in the dark really for any one Mr or Ms Big.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 24-Dec-12 22:55:29

I don't know how they've managed it but any of the theories posted could be the answer. It's mind boggling confusedgrin

gypsyfloss Mon 24-Dec-12 22:55:58

Jeez that reddit link takes speculating to a whole new level grin . Nothing on there about St Saul's kind face or Quinn's cute ass !

cornystollenslave Mon 24-Dec-12 22:57:44

Quinn must have bulked up for this. He looked really scrawny in pride and prejudice. <random speculation>

BOFingSanta Mon 24-Dec-12 22:58:16

Welcome to my mind, gypsyfloss grin. My head is spinning. I am way over-thinking this!

gypsyfloss Tue 25-Dec-12 11:30:50

BOF I am going to rewatch it tonight especially to check out the that key scene grin
Brody most definitely did know that something was going to happen. His comment about the car was off and she knew it too .

petshopgirls Tue 25-Dec-12 20:49:48

In the key scene, Brody has the keys in his hand, walks up to a soldier and whilst he isn't shown handing them over, afterwards he does not have the keys in his hand. It doesn't necessarily mean anything as maybe he put them in his pocket unseen.

difficultpickle Tue 25-Dec-12 22:17:02

I think he handed over the keys as he didn't seem to make any arm movement to put them into his pocket. He would have had to do it at the exact time same time as he shook the soldier's hand and patted him on the arm.

cornystollenslave Wed 26-Dec-12 00:23:21

I think that the vice president's, his wife's and Finn's attitude to the car accident (and their unwillingness to help Dana address it ) would have renewed Brody's antipathy for them.
He really relished the Vice President's death - he still considered him to be a war criminal.
He was more worried about being caught than the effect that his actions would have when he sent the code for the pace maker.

ImperialBlether Wed 26-Dec-12 18:44:20

I'm glad I've found this!

We're not assuming that the people who put the bomb in his car had his own set of keys, are we? It would have been planned since the death of the VP a few days before - whoever planted the bomb knew Brody would be going to the memorial. It's relatively easy to get keys for any car.

I think there's more to Saul than meets the eye. There's more to Quinn than meets the eye, too. Why didn't he kill Brody in the woods? He saw him praying - has Quinn spent time in Iraq too? Is he meant to be Moslem, too?

I notice Brody doesn't abide by any other Moslem rules - he eats whatever he wants and he drinks alcohol. Having a prayer mat doesn't make you religious, Brody!

I thought it was very odd that they both stepped away from the service. Surely that would be noticed, particularly as Brody was the VP's running mate? It would be seen as very disrespectful. It would have made more sense if they'd stepped away from a party afterwards.

One thing nobody's mentioned here though is that they could have both been tracked by their phones. It's hard to believe Carrie's car wasn't tracked, too. If their phones were tracked, it could be seen they were together.

Did anyone else notice that Carrie just said "Oh go up there, the hut/house is about 20 miles away" and pointed Brody in the direction of a pitch black field? He didn't seem bothered by this, either!

gypsyfloss Wed 26-Dec-12 21:04:20

Ok so just watched the last one again. The keys were just pocketed by Brody out of shot I reckon but he most definitely did know something was going to happen.
Saul suggested to Carrie that she would be the youngest station chief before Estes died ; this time it seemed to hint at his knowing that something was going to happen to Estes.
Saul's face at the end could be happy that Carrie is alive or as my DH pointed out ( having only ever watched this one with me) could be "bollocks she's alive " grin .

VicarInaTutuDrankSantasSherry Thu 27-Dec-12 00:58:29

and i reckon its saul.....

you just watch. i hate to say this cos i love saul but i reckon he is going to be key in the next series.....

gypsyfloss Thu 27-Dec-12 08:37:52

Yep Vicar , watching a second time around made Saul look less like a cuddly purveyor of snacks and more like a man with an evil plan hidden behind that beard and those specs.

northender Thu 27-Dec-12 08:47:54

Them leaving the memorial was bizarre. It appeared to be a very formal occasion but the 2 of them just walked out, no questions asked??? Of course now no witnesses to it alive. I've given up trying to speculategrin

gypsyfloss Thu 27-Dec-12 10:12:42

I agree, especially as someone pointed out earlier he was the VP's running mate. In fact I was surprised that he wasn't expected to make a speech. Perhaps he really didn't give a fuck as he knew no-one would be around to question him about it.
Watching it again also highlighted his desperate need to keep Carrie onside to facilitate his escape. Al his interactions with her seemed so insincere to me.

HalleLouja Thu 27-Dec-12 11:44:56

But he wasn't as twitchy as he was first time round. Maybe that is due to experience rather than the fact he is innocent.

HalleLouja Thu 27-Dec-12 11:46:09

He being Brody.

He did seem distracted before the bomb though and had told Jessica about Carrie.

gypsyfloss Thu 27-Dec-12 12:03:58

And told Dana the truth about the bomb vest , as if he knew that if he survived his reputation would be mud after the bomb.

MulledPinot Thu 27-Dec-12 14:23:18

It was Quinn.

<wild stab in the dark>

BOFingSanta Thu 27-Dec-12 15:05:29

I think it was either Brodie conspiring with Abu Nazir, or Nazir's lot stitching him up after copying his car keys when he got picked up in the helicopter. They could have stuffed it with explosives then too, although I think it's a bit of a stretch to not have all vehicles checked by sniffer dogs at a major service in CIA headquarters.

There's a possibility that Quinn and Dar Adul are playing a part for their own agenda, I will concede- maybe they wanted rid of Estes and other key personnel? I'm not especially convinced by that though. I think that it is more believable that it was exactly as we were shown: Quinn couldn't shoot because it would destroy Carrie, and he knew it was operationally unnecessary.

Saul is good. It would be majorly dishonest of the writers to have it otherwise, akin to Bobby Ewing in the shower, or the Colby spaceship. I just think they are better than that.

gypsyfloss Thu 27-Dec-12 17:52:01

But why is Saul good BOF? If he is being portrayed as the moral compass he is being painted with very broad strokes when all the other characters are so complex. He just seems to me to be so obviously ' good Saul'. But then these are the script writers who brought us Mike , who has as much depth as a flan tin ...

BOFingSanta Thu 27-Dec-12 18:15:26

I think he is a LOT more complex than Mike grin. We see his love for Carrie, for his wife, his commitment to intelligence work, his sadness at losing his wife. Dar Adul tells us he has always thought he was too soft because he won't transgress the bounds of morality in his work. We know he was disgusted by the drone strokes and the plan to assassinate Brodie. He showed kindness and compassion to the woman who ended up killing herself; he prays for the souls of the dead. In Hebrew. Alone. Why would he do that if he was a Jihadi infiltrator? Where is he supposed to have developed the passion to destroy his compatriots? Brodie had eight years in captivity to melt his brain: Saul has spent his entire career as an analyst in the CIA, and they aren't noted for their sympathy to radical Islam.

And there's the beard: full and Santa-like; not an overly trimmed or creepy goatee.

It all points to his integrity.

onedev Thu 27-Dec-12 18:55:14

Great synopsis Bof grin

cocolepew Thu 27-Dec-12 19:06:24

Never trust a man with a full beard.

<joins pinot wild speculating>

gypsyfloss Thu 27-Dec-12 19:08:31

Excellent synopsis smile especially the beard part. I agree that we see all these things but I still think there's more to him that meets the eye. I don't think he is an Islamic jihadist but I do think there's another agenda that fires him. Maybe that is truth and fairness etc or maybe it is linked to his Jewish heritage.

I can't believe I have given so much thought to a tv series grin Now if I can show as much dedication to next term's reading and essays I should be in with a chance for a decent degree smile

diddl Fri 28-Dec-12 08:14:41

So was it Brody???

And he couldn´t bear for Carrie to die?

But he can pretend to Carrie it was Nazir because it´s the "old recording".

Well, & if it was him he wouldn´t heve released the recording?

So will series 3 be another "is Brody bad or good"?

Hassled Fri 28-Dec-12 08:19:58

Oh yes, I think season 3 will be entirely about whether Brodie is bad or good - I for one have no idea anymore. Still convinced that Quinn didn't not shoot Brodie out of the kindness of his heart - it was the praying, or something, that changed his mind.

And BOF - you are entirely right about Saul. He is a good, moral man - and provides a clear yardstick against which we can measure Estes, Quinn, even Carrie's behaviour. That's the only thing I'm sure of anymore.

coffeeinbed Fri 28-Dec-12 08:38:10

If it was Brody then why didn't Abu Nazir make a new recording when Brody was with him? They had time to to it.
Why did they use the old one?

diddl Fri 28-Dec-12 09:01:12

Well he didn´t need to!

He´s got Brody either way!

Good twist as it leaves it open to doubt.

keepmoving Fri 28-Dec-12 13:24:32

I have lurked on this thread (and the previous one) for the the whole series and want to say thank you to the regular contributors - I think I have enjoyed it as much as the actual series itself.

You have made my Monday morning commute! thanks

BOFingSanta Fri 28-Dec-12 14:45:27

Aww thanksgrin

VicarInaTutuDrankSantasSherry Fri 28-Dec-12 23:09:51

i still think its going to be a shock for all Saul fans....just saying! (i like saul i just think there is more to him than we are being shown....)

why was he so opposed to brody getting assasinated....was it because he knew if he was there would be no pastsy to take the fall for the bombing?

who moved brodys car?.....he sounded genuine when he saw it had moved just before the bomb went off....

i reckon brody has been set up - but i think by who is going to be the big shock....

cornystollenslave Fri 28-Dec-12 23:35:53

I think that carrie is the moral compass despite what's happened with Brodie
I reckon that saul's wife is his Achille's heel and he'll have to compromise himself

gypsyfloss Sat 29-Dec-12 08:48:49

Yes to Saul's wife as his Achilles heel. There is a whole subplot that we don't know about them.

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Sun 30-Dec-12 18:33:36

<wails> Had a smile moment realising it's sunday, then sad realising Homeland is no more.

sickofsocalledexperts Sun 30-Dec-12 18:36:38

I will miss Saul the most, especially that bit he says at the opening "....everyone missed something that day"

Just feel there is literally nothing on telly now that Homeland and Killing have finished

Lighthousekeeping Sun 30-Dec-12 19:03:27

The Sopranos and Game of Thrones start from the beginning on New Years Eve if that helps?

sickofsocalledexperts Sun 30-Dec-12 19:13:07

Sopranos yes, but also have breaking bad boxset

gypsyfloss Sun 30-Dec-12 20:09:01

sad I've done all my ironing and now I'm sat watching some shite thing about people smuggling cigarettes into the country.

I'm not sure I can do The Sopranos and didn't get into Game of Thrones first time around. Might have to have a crack at Dexter...

BOFingSanta Sun 30-Dec-12 22:07:44

You won't regret The Sopranos.

cocolepew Sun 30-Dec-12 22:36:20

The Sporanoes is one if the greatest programmes ever. Also recommend ER and Dexter.

northender Mon 31-Dec-12 00:37:32

The Good Wife is back at end of Jan for 20ish episodes. That will fill the void for me

onedev Mon 31-Dec-12 00:53:07

Yay to The Good Wife grin

Fiderer Mon 31-Dec-12 09:43:12

Am back in forrin-land from my internet-less Christmas (which btw Hassled was deepest darkest Norfolk with my mum grin ) Missed the finale so have just watched it online.

shock

Great ending. Saul is and will forever be a Good Egg. Was it the Kaddish he was saying? His wife may become a target for the baddies, there's bound to be conflict and anguish for him though. Maybe it'll make him more understanding of Carrie's leaving after the bomb to help Brody escape.

Brody was set up by Nazir. I think he had that CIA bomb planned all along and the camera team plot was a diversion and test of Brody's loyalty. Brody betrayed them (as Nazir knew he would) and in retaliation, they used his car without his knowledge and released a copy of the video with their message claiming responsibility.

There must have been several copies. The one Carrie found in Beirut was in the flat of the Hezbollah commander, hardly where Al-Quaeda would stash their only copy.

I loved the Quinn-Estes exchange. And the irony of Quinn saving Brody's life only for Al-Quaeda to use Brody to kill hundreds and strike at the heart of US intelligence. Anyone else think the wreckage looked a bit like the 9/11 scene with those girders?

Lighthousekeeping Mon 31-Dec-12 09:59:09

Oh, please give The Sopranos another shot. Its on Sky Atlantic. I would love us all to watch it and have a thread on here. Its simply the best thing thats ever been on tv.

gypsyfloss Mon 31-Dec-12 11:14:56

The Homeland Whores do The Sopranos has quite a nice ring to it grin

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 31-Dec-12 11:44:28

I just had a thought - remember Brody took info from files in Estes' office? Wonder how that will unravel in the coming series? Seeing as now Estes and many others are now no more, whatever info he took will no doubt be connected to the bombing. Maybe security codes for getting around CIA base? He's up to his neck in this, whether he was knowingly involved or not.

<sigh> How will I cope with all the conspiracy theories rattling around my brain? Not sure I can be satisfied with just the sopranos..

chicaguapa Mon 31-Dec-12 11:54:50

AQ don't know that the CIA has seen the suicide video already and that Brody wasn't killed in the bomb.

The CIA knows that the video is from the suicide vest incident and that this one wasn't a suicide as Brody didn't kill himself. So the CIA, ie Saul, should be easily convinced it wasn't Brody.

But with so many plot holes it's hard to know if there are clues, red herrings or indeed holes. hmm

gypsyfloss Mon 31-Dec-12 12:28:32

Bunch I thought the codes were for nuclear sites ? I suppose the terrorists needed to get those knowing that the building would be gone and with it vital info for their cause.

May be Quinn's job was to protect Brody in a double agent way, so that he could drive his bomb laden car to Langley?

Fiderer Mon 31-Dec-12 12:44:03

The codes were sites the CIA were targeting, weren't they?

bunchamunchycrunchycarrots Mon 31-Dec-12 14:29:49

I can't actually remember tbh. I was just thinking along the lines of Brody actually being set up, with the CIA knowing he's not behind it, but then discovering info he supplied Roya with actually made the bombing possible. Ill need to go back to the thread at the time of that episode to remind me what was speculated about at the time. grin

Fiderer Mon 31-Dec-12 14:50:40

I can't remember either grin I remember "targets" but not sure which. I think I was more interested in the "will he won't he?" then the "can he can't he?" before Estes returned.

tribpot Sun 06-Jan-13 19:22:13

Have just watched the final episode - cor blimey guv.

Still don't see how it is possible for a car bomb to have been planted in Langley, just because they thought Nazir was dead. Per-lease.

And Carrie seems to have defied the laws of physics to drive from Langley to the Canadian border and back - that's over a thousand miles, people.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Tue 08-Jan-13 14:29:47

Just watched it last night, thought it was ace.i Agee with Chicathough, Nazir etc wouldn't necessarily know the CIA saw the tape - and if they'd made a second one after they had suspicions of brodie's loyalty, bet it wouldn't sound as convincing.

I think Quinn was displaying doubts through his acting before he finally decided not to shoot Brodie but he had to carry on his surveillance etc until ready to make the decision. but I think it was a bit unrealistic Brodie wouldn't have heard him in the woods - maybe they talked in an unseen bit.

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