DOCTOR WHO Xmas special - the Snowmen!

(113 Posts)

How many days until who-mas? Very excited!

The snowmen look creepy, Clara looks clever and kind of like someone we've already met (yeah, write your way out of that one Moffat!) Madame vastra! Jenny! A doctor who is so tired of losing his friends... And something in the snow.

icovetthee Mon 17-Dec-12 23:33:21

I am so ready for this! Baileys at the ready!

<marks place as I am just off to sleep>

prequel!.

'Heartbreak is a burden to us all. Pity the man with two'

OodKingWenceslas Tue 18-Dec-12 11:55:02

Thanks for that I keep forgetting to look for it!

Ooh I enjoyed the prequel. Am really looking forward to the Christmas special.

I need to know more about your Matt Smith tattoo Snape! What made you decide to go for MS rather than DT?

because Matt smith is better than David Tennant grin <ducks> i have lots of space left on that leg, i'll probably get them all at some point!

i got slightly tired of DT towards the end - now i can look back and appreciate him more, but i tend to think of him as being very much from the school of 'eyes and teeth' acting. i was devastated by DTs Hamlet, because it was basically the doctor in Denmark. which is strange, because when DT was John Smith in 'the family of blood', a bit of a coward, more 'human' i liked him more... MS is a beautifully subtle actor, there is so much going on behind his eyes, so i just prefer him as the Doctor....

..plus, he's fit. blush i get all Mrs Robinson about him. 'hello Benjamin!' blush

KayHarker Tue 18-Dec-12 14:14:46

Marking my place. Looking forward to Jenna a lot

I didn't warm to MS at first and didn't find him remotely attractive but have really warmed to him and now his unattractive features are rather endearing. I prefer him to DT, although I cried when DT 'died' and didn't think I'd be able to carry on watching I am slightly over invested but looking back DTs doctor had become emotionally tiring to watch, he got to complicated and lost alot of his humour that made him so likeable, he was to troubled and tortured in the end.

MS is like a breath of fresh air, I like the banter with River and have a slight girl crush on her!

CaseyShraeger Tue 18-Dec-12 14:24:45

The Moffat/Smith Doctor is far more alien than the Davies/Tennant one, and I think that gives things an edge that was a bit lacking before.

i got a bit annoyed at the 'mooning-around-after-rose-tyler' with no disrespect to anyone working in retail, she was a shop assistant. he was a time lord, they were never equals - River is his equal. Team River!

yes, i like that MS is a tiny bit borderline-aspergers, confounded by the humans and what they do, misses things.. but i love that - as always, the doctor is brave and clever and gets that violence doesn't solve anything.

QuietNinjaChristmasSpecial Sat 22-Dec-12 20:51:05

'Who-mas' grin I love matt smith as the doctor. I love David tennant and therefore loved his doctor. Iyswim. Sort off. Can't wait.

Yogagirl17 Tue 25-Dec-12 09:42:54

Hello, just place marking can't wait! Merry xmas. (and for what it's worth I couldn't stand Rose! Blurgh)

Place marking here as well. Eeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

RedToothbrush Bosnia-Herzegovina Tue 25-Dec-12 17:42:26

POND! V clever.

OodKingWenceslas Tue 25-Dec-12 17:58:10

Smaller on the outside

Souffle

New tardis (80s style?)

New credits but of a flashback too.

( random thoughts, sorry!)

RedToothbrush Bosnia-Herzegovina Tue 25-Dec-12 17:59:27

I thought there was mod style targets on the walls.

OodKingWenceslas Tue 25-Dec-12 18:00:41

Can't believe how quiet this thread is, never been on a slow moving Dr who thread before. Don't tell me everyone else has a life?

jarndyceandjarndyce Tue 25-Dec-12 18:01:45

Ugh. New girl is a bit fluffy. I'm not liking all this kissing. Perhaps because I want the dr to ask me to run away with him.

OodKingWenceslas Tue 25-Dec-12 18:02:59

No , bit fed up of the kissing each companion ( poor Rory missed out!)

jarndyceandjarndyce Tue 25-Dec-12 18:05:06

"You fed your darkest desires into a snowman!" - great line.

JakeBullet Tue 25-Dec-12 18:05:24

Really enjoying it....Richard E Grant is a fabulous villain

jarndyceandjarndyce Tue 25-Dec-12 18:07:40

OMG THEY JUST TOTALLY STOLE A LINE FROM GAME OF THRONES.

Winter is coming? Moffat you are such a fan boy.

OodKingWenceslas Tue 25-Dec-12 18:17:12

Best Xmas episode for a while!

RedToothbrush Bosnia-Herzegovina Tue 25-Dec-12 18:17:18

Fluffy?!

You watching the same thing as me?

I think she's a feisty one and I really wouldn't want to mess with her.

KayHarker Tue 25-Dec-12 18:17:56

The face! They had a face in the opening credits!!! Excuse me while a fantasm over the entire episode!

As you were.

PartridgeInARustyBearTree Tue 25-Dec-12 18:19:08

Loved the London Underground/Intelligence/Abominable Snowmen thing.

And anyone else wondering is Captain Latimer Tim's father? Or possibly grandfather....

jarndyceandjarndyce Tue 25-Dec-12 18:21:12

Meh, I haven't seen her do anything other than ponce around and snog the dr. Not very inspiring.

ClaraOswinOswald Tue 25-Dec-12 18:21:23

It was only quiet because we were all watching it! smile

Well that was a roller coaster, I laughed, I cried, I changed my name. We LOVED it in this house.

DH is currently working out anagrams of her name- Carnation swallow so far.

KayHarker Tue 25-Dec-12 18:28:38

Calmed down a bit now. Richard E Grant wasn't given an awful lot to do, but I loved the rest without reservation. Thought Clara was great and am really looking forward to her tenure as companion with a good mystery to keep us all guessing.

SecretSantaFix Tue 25-Dec-12 18:30:00

She isn't going to be as fecking annoying as Amy Pond is she?

Yeah, right.

QuietNinjaChristmasSpecial Tue 25-Dec-12 18:41:47

I like her! Wasn't expecting the snogging but I don't care I just want the next series to start now.

(1) infinite oswins. The new Rory, dies in every episode. Except she's his SPOILER
(2) no kissing! Rover is going to kick your arse dalek girl. Except she can't, because oswin is their SPOILER
(3) love the new titles. So happy to have the face.
(4) tardis interior redesign. Idris, you're looking day and sexy.

The DCs dad is her for Xmas, having spilt up from OW v2.0. OWv1.0 phoned during DW so he could talk to their son. This is not permissible.

And the trailer for 7.5!!! Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

*Rover, clearly River. Oops. blush

And Madame vastra and Jenny were adorable and strap was awesome

strax Xmas wine is having an effect on my typoes. blush. <gives up>

QuietNinjaChristmasSpecial Tue 25-Dec-12 18:51:25

Are you guessing or do you know snapespeares?

Oh I am speculating wildly! That's half the fun!

<said in river song voice>

jarndyceandjarndyce Tue 25-Dec-12 19:12:53

Oops I kind of forgot about River. What the dr doing giving her a key and kissing her!?

FrankelcenseAndMyhrr Tue 25-Dec-12 19:50:35

Loved the Sherlock references, and mildly Sherlock music when the Doctor entered the lab. That should keep the Wholock campaigners happy!

I hope they're not going to kill off Clara/Oswin every episode, it will get tedious. But I'm glad there is a tie-in to the first episode of the series.

Overall, 9 out of 10.

3b1g Tue 25-Dec-12 20:38:55

First impressions:
I liked the new credits a lot.
Not sure about the new TARDIS design but it might grow on me.
Well spotted about the GoT reference.
I saw the "it's smaller on the outside" line from a mile off, but she had to say something.
The one word test was clever and "Pond" gave me shivers.
A character that can be killed off as many times as you need? I suppose it worked with Rory.
Looking forward to the rest of S7.

Yogagirl17 Tue 25-Dec-12 21:32:26

Only just finished watching as had to wait for kids to get back from XILs. Didn't think much of the actual story (telepathic snow - cool idea but a bit of a let down in the end and not nearly as scary as I thought it was going to be). BUT...loved everything else about it. The dialogue was fab, loved Stax (how could I love a character that looks like a rotten potato? Dunno but I did), really quite like Clara (don't think she was flouncy at all), MS brilliant as ever. LOLd when she said "smaller on the outside" instead of bigger on the inside - it was one of those moments where you were so sure you knew what she was going to say and then she didn't quite. Oh, and kicking myself cause i deleted it before watching the trailer for next season. Duh.

But Snape, what do you mean she is the spoiler - I don't get it? If you're not too drunk could you pls explain???

SDTGisAChristmassyWolefGenius Tue 25-Dec-12 21:39:03

I enjoyed it - especially the spiral staircase up to cloud-base-Tardis. I am slightly warming to Matt Smith, though David Tennant will always be No1 for me (well, SDTG does stand for Staying David Tennant's Girl).

PartridgeInARustyBearTree Tue 25-Dec-12 21:39:45

I think Snape means "She is the.... [SPOILER!]....

Yogagirl17 Tue 25-Dec-12 21:54:29

Ohhhhhh [Duh]

laraeo Tue 25-Dec-12 22:27:16

Ooh! I can't wait! I'm on vacation and made a point to set the dvr before we left. New credits! Squeal! I am looking forward to Clara/Oswin. My DH is going to go nuts - he loathes all things Whovian.

And, as an aside, I still can't get over how mainstream DW is getting Stateside. There was a link on CNN a week ago. While I guess I'm glad, I'm a little sad that my show isn't just mine anymore.

dementedma Tue 25-Dec-12 23:18:07

Well I thought it was a load of bolox tbh. We got so fed up with it we gave up!

ChoccyJules Tue 25-Dec-12 23:59:00

Finally got to watch it after the 'what a load of rubbish' (!) relatives had gone to bed.
Loved Clara, her attitude, her brain.
REG was great. Liked spotting Gandalf as the Snow voice (it's late, I have to give myself points for easy stuff).
Interesting idea about the dying every ep. Makes me think of Kenny in South Park and I really don't want to do that!
Sontaran bloke was fab:-)

Pixel Wed 26-Dec-12 00:18:16

We weren't over-impressed here. Pushy feisty companion snogging him while he struggles a bit, getting a bit boring now. Does he never meet anyone who might be just as clever and brave but maybe a bit polite shy? A lot of the story made no sense, what was all that about the tears and salt rain? And dd and I shouted half a dozen times to shut the door there is an ice monster outside.
There were a few good lines though, especially from the sontaran, thinking he'd been run over by the carriage, his Jayne Cobb love of weapons and "try not to worry".

hello whovians grin

i didnt realise there was a thread!

i liked it.
not too keen on the interior change but im sure ill get used to it. anyone know why they decided to change it?
i like clara/oswin. after seeing her in the other episode, i have been really looking forward to seeing her "officially" join. i have never felt that for any other companion. 1 left, another joined, took me a while to get used to each of them and see them grow... but her i liked instantly. i think she can really make this interesting.

... and what is with the kissing? again? really... with ms its really not needed imo

The kissing tends to be a bit of a device for MS to be awkward and a tiny bit asexual. It's kind of cool, because it identifies with the kids going 'eww! Gross!' But I really wanted him to go 'get off me, I'm married!' Also want RS to post on MN, 'my OH travels a lot for work and told me that an attractive young woman kissed him. Then he gave her a job. Should I be worried?' 'Update... it's ok. She died'

Yogagirl17 Wed 26-Dec-12 09:07:35

Ha ha - love the RS MN post Snape!!! grin

DoesntTurkeyNSproutSoupDragOn Wed 26-Dec-12 09:52:09

We loved it in the Dragon House. Children may not play in the snow ever again mind you... Snowflakes with teeth?! grin. I do think they could have gone further with it though, it was very easily defeated.

I guessed that Pond was the right one word answer though.

3b1g Wed 26-Dec-12 09:53:10

Oh I do hope someone does that, especially if they can 'do' RS well enough to carry it off. It would make my day.

We loved it- I haven't laughed so much at a DW epsiode for ages. grin

JakeBullet Wed 26-Dec-12 11:13:05

"Oh my God, they killed Clara, the bastards"grin

Hope the Moffat is not gonna go all South Park on us.grin

FrankelcenseAndMyhrr Wed 26-Dec-12 14:36:07

They've launched a set of Doctor Who stamps for the 50th anniversary year - that sorts out a few birthday pressies!

MurielTheActor Wed 26-Dec-12 15:38:46

"I am a lizard woman from the dawn of time and this is my wife" is going to be how I greet people from now one grin

MurielTheActor Wed 26-Dec-12 15:39:10

Now ON (obvs)

FrankelcenseAndMyhrr Wed 26-Dec-12 16:21:55

I don't know why some people are kicking up about the "lizard woman and her crime fighting wife" now (not on here, on other sites). They appeared in A Good Man Goes to War with a veiled lesbian sex reference about Madame Vastra's tongue wink

ll31 Wed 26-Dec-12 17:35:46

thought it was great episode'v funny!

Yogagirl17 Wed 26-Dec-12 17:57:23

Frankincense - are people really that bothered about the lesbian thing? How sad.

I agree that it was very funny! Laughed a lot.

When is the next season on?

ZenNudist Wed 26-Dec-12 21:57:22

Is a face in the credits a throw back to eighties DW?

OodKingWenceslas Wed 26-Dec-12 22:11:14

Yes, I thought the console was too

The whole point of the throwaway reference to the lizard woman & her wife is that it was just that, this is a character, she's gay, nothing to see move on.

Great way of bringing in strong gay characters without making a big deal of it, into mainstream programs. (as with Captain Jack previously)

Pixel Wed 26-Dec-12 23:20:59

Being lesbians is the least of their worries. They are different species. hmm

Pssst Pixel don't overthink it....therin lies madness with DW I've found!!

PoppyWearer Wed 26-Dec-12 23:24:48

LOVED the new credits! Overall the episode was a typical Christmas one, but not complete stand-alone, looking forward to seeing what happens with Clara/Oswin.

WildWorld2004 Wed 26-Dec-12 23:29:41

Haha Pixel. All my dd did was shout 'shut the door' and 'it was her own fault because she should have closed the door'.

It wasnt the best episode i have seen.

HaleAndHeartyYuletideAges Wed 26-Dec-12 23:58:40

So when's the next series?

FrankelcenseAndMyhrr Thu 27-Dec-12 10:11:30

The second-half of series 7 starts in April. I don't know why they've gone for such a large break.

Pixel Thu 27-Dec-12 18:25:49

Bossy I know, but a lizard?? The mind boggles grin.

OodKingWenceslas Thu 27-Dec-12 18:32:51

Silurian not lizard pedantic

specialsubject Thu 27-Dec-12 20:07:22

the long break is probably to stop them running out of episodes for the 50th anniversary, which is next November.

bit hacked off that we have characters that appear out of nowhere (Lizard/Sontaran/cockney girl) and unless you read an ebook or watch prequels (in the middle of Children in Need which I would not watch if you paid me) you don't know where they come from. Also we had Clara cockney and Lizard wife cockney, and I wasn't always sure who was who, looked very alike.

I've been watching Who for forty years so I will carry on, but it is starting to disappear up its own fundament even for a fangirl like me. Yes, I know about the Great Intelligence and it is always a bit vague how it gets defeated, but this one reached new heights of 'what happened there?'

EggNogRules Thu 27-Dec-12 20:38:28

Loved it [[ http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p011gpsb/profiles/clara Clara condundrum, she is from Earth "apparently"

The characters were part of Battle of Demon’s Run.

I having been watching Matt Smith's doctor from the beginning. River and the Doctor(s) have a non linear timeline and we don't know about incarnations pre-Melody. I didn't think that DT/ MS were River's Doctor?

EggNogRules Thu 27-Dec-12 20:39:05

[[ http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p011gpsb/profiles/clara Clara]]

EggNogRules Thu 27-Dec-12 20:39:48

ffs

Clara

Yogagirl17 Thu 27-Dec-12 21:55:02

Apparently there are 1224 anagrams of Clara Oswin

Clara's birthdate is 23rd November

I am currently going with multiple fragments of Clara scattered through time, either because she's the doctor and Rivers daughter (eww at the kiss, however it's not as if he was into it and his mother-in-law tried to snog him, but still, that would give Moffat big issues...hmm) & River hid her (speculation of Rivers pregnancy in 'the impossible astronaut') or a rebooted river downloaded from the libraries computer or a pre Mels regeneration of River as it's never really been specified as to baby melody pond >>???>> girl who regenerated in New York >>>???>>>Mels>>>River. I reckon there are at least two regenerations between baby melody >river that we're not party to. Clara sounds like River ('you clever boy') but hat might just be Moffats inability to write anything other than feisty-flirty for his female characters.

EggRules Fri 28-Dec-12 11:15:45

I love her DOB.

I don't think it's a version of River/Melody Pond because:
1. The kiss - relationships are all a bit too close for Clara to be a relative.
2. Clara's iterations of herself through time are essentially the same. Her replicant is more similar than when a Time Lord/Lady regenerates.

The relationship thing also make me wonder why the Doctor fails to engage with his spouses/ descendants (first companion was a DGC). Jenni (The Doctor's Daughter) is a clone of DT (and his real life missus) and so will have Time Lord capabilities.

I wonder if the Groundhog Day (2nd Feb btw) tendencies are a message or Time Lord glitch.

hmmmm.

Thinking about it more, I'm currently going with a rebooted river from the library computer, fragmented through time, when her 'casing' dies, she reboots into a 'flesh' casing. Lots of stuff about 'fixed points being rewritten' in the last series, I fully expect the doctor to save River at some point, I'm just not 100% sure how he does it yet.

I don't think the doctors daughter has strict timelord DNA, but my memory might be a bit off, did she die in the doctors daughter and if so, she would have regenerated into a new body?

RustyBear Fri 28-Dec-12 12:02:40

She did die, and the Doctor thought she couldn't regenerate, but she did 'revive' - but in the same body, so not a 'classical' regeneration.

Himalaya Fri 28-Dec-12 12:04:22

Ice 9, anyone?

Thanks rusty <waves, it now feels like a proper DW thread.>

peeriebear Fri 28-Dec-12 12:20:00

Strax had all the best lines. We all howled with laughter. "Do not noogie me during combat prep!"

EggRules Fri 28-Dec-12 12:41:08

Doctor's daughter went off in a tiny space ship at the end of the episode. She did revive in the same body though, hmmmm.

What is Ice 9?

MikeLitorisHasChristmasLights Fri 28-Dec-12 12:42:51

When Clara/Oswain was in the Dalek previously what was the story with her mum?

I think I need to see that ep again.

SDTGisAChristmassyWolefGenius Fri 28-Dec-12 12:46:53

I loved Strax and his lines too - especially the way he goes for the most weapon-heavy, extreme solution to any problem. And dh is sure he spotted one of Strax's relatives as the butler at the Duneagle Estate in Downton - he did have a somewhat no-neck, potato-esque appearance.

RustyBear Fri 28-Dec-12 12:47:15

Waves back to Snape. Actually I've been on this thread since the first day - I was just disguised as a partridge.....

Grenades!!!

Aah, maybe Clara is a partridge the plot worsens thickens! smile

Yogagirl17 Fri 28-Dec-12 13:32:18

Could she be like Captain Jack? He could time travel and he couldn't die either, right?

EggRules Fri 28-Dec-12 15:07:08

The difference between Jenni and Capt Jack is that they revive in the same body; Clara has died twice and has been reborn into duplicate incarnations.

Yogagirl17 Fri 28-Dec-12 15:09:59

Umm....I don't understand the difference Egg? (How the heck did I ever manage to follow six seasons of Lost?!)

KayHarker Fri 28-Dec-12 16:17:24

Captain Jack was made immortal by Rose when she was a goddess inhabited by the TARDIS.

Clara/Oswin appears to be reincarnated in different generations but looking the same.

As far as we know just yet.

EggRules Fri 28-Dec-12 18:01:23

Jenni and Capt Jack die and are revived almost instantly in the same body. Clara lives a life and dies at the end of an adventures with the Doctor. It seemed to suggest she was buried and that her body disintegrates. It could be that her old body dies and a clone starts somewhere else. I don't know if she is reincarnated as a baby or if she lives up until she meets the Doctor. There seems to be a part of her that remembers him and has a greater understanding of the unfolding events.

jack knows he comes back to life and is always the same person when he does

clara, it seems, doesnt know she comes back as the same person, and is just living each life (as you do).

i cant wait to find out more. i hope im not disappointed. she intrigues me

fancyanother Sat 29-Dec-12 08:33:38

I can't quite remember the hows or why's, but in an old Tom Baker episode, there is some sort of machine that scatters one of the villains through time, so he is living lots of lives in different times simultaneously. I wonder if that is what has happened with Clara for some reason?

I like to think she is his daughter. It seems a bit stupid that he is the last timelord, that the universe needs him to save itself millions of times, but he has not taken the opportunity of being married to a synthetic timelord to pop out a spare timelord in the event of his death.

I wonder if Susan escaped the time war?

RustyBear Sat 29-Dec-12 10:42:55

Fancyanother - I think you're thinking of City of Death (because I was thinking of that one earlier). In that one, an alien's spaceship lands on Earth before Life begins. It explodes, and the explosion kickstarts the chemical reactions that start Life. It also splits the alien Jagaroth pilot into twelve identical pieces that are scattered through time. The pieces can communicate telepathically and they use their technical knowledge to advance human technology so that the piece in the 20th century can create a time machine to get back to his spaceship and prevent the explosion. The Doctor becomes aware of his time experiments and finds the 20th century piece of the Jagaroth in Paris and stops him preventing the explosion.

In that story, the Jagaroth were not in human form, they wore a human mask and skin, so each 'piece' looked identical - underneath they looked more like a nest of worms with a couple of eyeballs.

It's a vey good story - written by Douglas Adams and has a cameo appearance from John Cleese and Eleanor Bron as a couple of art experts.

Yogagirl17 Sat 29-Dec-12 11:05:15

erm....who's Susan?

Sorry, susan - doctors grand daughter.

EleanorGiftbasket Sat 29-Dec-12 11:19:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

fancyanother Sat 29-Dec-12 15:51:02

That's right. It is a good episode. I hadn't realised it was written by Douglas Adams. Wasn't the concept for the Snowman also a Douglas Adams one? Maybe thats not what the Clara thing is then.. hmm... back to the drawing board...

fancyanother Sat 29-Dec-12 15:52:55

I'm annoyed about River too. Whether they are really married or not, she did time for him and believed she is married to him. To completely forget about her when a bit of skirt appears is just cruel, which I dont think the Doctor is really.

ClaraOswinOswald Sat 29-Dec-12 22:11:58

But he hasn't met River yet in terms of falling for yet etc. so one last fling (or even several should be ok I think. This timeywhimey stuff is so confusing.

EggRules Sat 29-Dec-12 23:13:42

I'm not sure that MS is her doc.
Plenty of fling time.wink

Xales Sat 29-Dec-12 23:52:49

I do think the doctor is that cruel.

Look at how he was in the girl in the mirror towards Rose. Just dropped her like a hot potato.

CaseyShraeger Sun 30-Dec-12 00:07:27

I really enjoyed the characterisation, the dialogue, the sly references and the look of the thing. I thought the story was complete bobbins, though. And I didn't see the need for more kissing (although maybe it was put in just to toy with the fan theories that Clara is the Doctor's daughter/granddaughter/second cousin).

fancy, I think SM said that the whole "Doctor is retired and has given up on taking an interest in human affairs" plot strand was from an unfilmed Douglas Adams script/outline, yes.

fancyanother Sun 30-Dec-12 07:38:46

Now I've slept on it ( yes, my real life is THAT dull) I think River is dead. On the Series 6 DVD's, he takes her to wherever she was going to take her, I cant remember from the old TARDIS. They keep talking about 'The Ponds' which could include River. I think they have got rid of the whole Pond family. It could also explain why he is so devastated. He has lost his entire new family, his wife soon after Amy and Rory. (Of course, he doesnt know about his daughter, Clara wink

River will be back. She'll be about for ages. As clever as Clara is, she's no River.

Yogagirl17 Sun 30-Dec-12 08:58:15

"But he hasn't met River yet in terms of falling for yet etc. so one last fling (or even several should be ok I think. This timeywhimey stuff is so confusing."

Hang on. I know I don't know the ins and outs of DW as well as some but I've read an awful lot of sci fi over the years so I do get the timey whimy stuff (or at least I think I do). Surely all the stuff we've seen between the doctor and river has already happened for MS' Dr too because we always see the Dr moving forward in his own timeline...?

Virtuallyarts Sun 30-Dec-12 09:06:52

Why, when he'd retired and stopped taking an interest in human affairs, did the doc park his tardis in a cloud above earth and come down to visit? Shouldn't he have been sunning himself on planet sunseaandsand?

yoga, yes...this is very post-ponds. 300 years or so I believe I read. The doctor is generally moving forwards in his own timeline. River in his timeline is now out of stormcage & is now a professor, so the library is imminent...but it's already happened as a fixed point...but fixed points can be re-written these days.

virtually he's stalking us. He just can't get closure. wink

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