Downton Abbey - update required

(1000 Posts)
StagnantRabbit Wed 12-Sep-12 21:16:23

Any big Downton fans out there who can tell me what happened in the very last episode of series 2 and also the Xmas special? Tryin to get ready for the new series on Sunday but is there anything else I missed? (apart from Lady Mary and Matthew getting together that is)

pmgkt Wed 12-Sep-12 21:19:06

The other daughter married and moved to Ireland, and Mr bates went to prison. I think the dodgy butler lad got his job but I can't remember in the end. It's on itv3 at 5ish if you want to catch up.

beujolais Wed 12-Sep-12 21:25:42

Spanish flu hit and took out lavinia swire therefore paving the way for lady mary! oh and edith may have another shot at sir anthony strallen, bless. Sunday will open a new chapter, can't wait! Sybil married branson the driver and got preggers. Series 2 is a tenner in asda, buy it and you can catch up before sunday, but you can't leave the house!

Elephantscanwearorangeandgold Wed 12-Sep-12 21:30:01

Lavina was taken by flu. Bates was arrested. Thomas got his job back.
Xmas special.
Matthew and mary got engaged. Bates was sentenced to death but then got life inside.

Series two box set is worth it.

beujolais Wed 12-Sep-12 21:35:01

It's lovely curling up on the couch on a sunday, curtains drawn with cake and coffee watching it. my idea of heaven on earth.

StagnantRabbit Wed 12-Sep-12 21:36:58

Thanks everyone.
Death penalty for Bates? What the hell for?
Will try and catch up on ITV 3...
I have the box sets but sadly series 2 started jumping literally 5 mins from the end.... so anoying! I tried countless tims to get it working.
Enjoy series 3.

Elephantscanwearorangeandgold Wed 12-Sep-12 21:40:48

He apparently killed vera bates. So he got done for murder. Anna cried. Robert grantham testified but he got sentenced a--and i cried--

Is it back on Sunday? How exciting! I kept meaning to check.

Only problem I have is that MIL will be here. She is lovely but talks all the way through TV programmes! I know she likes it too so maybe she will be quiet!

beujolais Wed 12-Sep-12 21:49:20

I hate it when that happens, so infuriating! I hop they release bates, it's only right! How wicked was vera bates? rotten cow she was!

beujolais Wed 12-Sep-12 21:50:36

It drives my crazy when people chat when you're watching something! They don't seem to get the hint when your head is turned in the tvs direction!

Elephantscanwearorangeandgold Thu 13-Sep-12 07:54:29

Dd and me love it.
I cried all through episode 5 of series two.

ThePsychicSatsuma Fri 14-Sep-12 20:28:38

oooh sunday night 9pm am so excited :-)

milktraylady Fri 14-Sep-12 20:30:28

Hi the old series have been showing on itv3 everyday. The last episode is on tomorrow at 5pm. then the new series starts on Sunday.

ThePsychicSatsuma Fri 14-Sep-12 20:31:24

...and that american battleaxe is in it shirley maclaine Awesome.

ThePsychicSatsuma Fri 14-Sep-12 20:32:53

thanks for that just set up that to record tomorrow at 5pm

milktraylady Fri 14-Sep-12 22:53:51

Double booking with strictly!

Goldelephantslikedowntonabbey Sat 15-Sep-12 07:13:56

Eeek! I cannot wait! Will we have a thread?

Animation Sat 15-Sep-12 07:16:56

"It's lovely curling up on the couch on a sunday, curtains drawn with cake and coffee watching it. my idea of heaven on earth."

My idea of heaven too - infront of the fire. (smile)

brew biscuit


Christmas Special being shown again on ITV3 @5pm for an update

We will have to have a new thread this one will be half full by tomorrow & the way we pull the plot apart critique it we'll hit the 1000 by the second ad break ! grin

Oh I do love the Dowager!! grin

springlamb Sun 16-Sep-12 09:23:45

DH and I watched the Xmas special again late last night (I bought it him for his birthday back in Feb!)
Very much looking forward to Carlyle's revenge and the true story of who killed Mrs Bates (I think he will get off eventually but I think he probably did it, sorry). And the chauffer (?sp, still too early) taking his place at the dinner table!
But most of all, looking forward to the Dowager.
Carlyle: I shall be leaving in the morning and I doubt we shall meet again.
Dowager: Do you promise?
I hope I end up with a tongue like hers, albeit an impoverished one!

springlamb that's the line that made me chortle, followed by her assurances to Matthew when he apologised for breaking the vase whilst pasting Sir Richard defending Mary .....

"please don't worry, I've never liked it, it was a wedding present from my mother and I've hated it for 50 years!"

MarthasHarbour Sun 16-Sep-12 17:51:13

I aspire to be the Dowager in my Autumn years! My best friend passed away this year and she was a huge fan of Dowager Countess and Lady Catherine de Burgh (pride and prejudice) - i am going to be a cross between the two in her memory!! smile

GoldandOrangeAnnunziata Sun 16-Sep-12 17:51:39

Wasn't Sybil supposed to be pregnant? She doesn't look it in the clips they have shown!

GeorginaWorsley Sun 16-Sep-12 18:02:24

OOh cannot wait.
Will have nice glass of wine at ready...

Me too Georgina!

Must get on with supper so we can all be safely seated when the dressing bell rings credits roll. grin

Am hoping DS goes nicely of to sleep so he doesn't need feeding at all during Downton. Watched the Xmas special last night which I missed last year, having only converted to Downton after borrowing my mums DVDs in March. Am looking forward to Sybil's return, to Edith getting some good storylines hopefully and obviously the wedding of M&M. Can't stand Bates; would have been fine had he been hanged. Will be interesting to see how Thomas fares as the new valet and how the other servants deal with his new status.

I is excite smile

SoupDragon Sun 16-Sep-12 19:15:41

What time?

convienently I have just sent the children to bed for pissing me off so all will be quiet soon.

DowagersHump Sun 16-Sep-12 19:29:30

9pm. Am rather excited blush

I am doing a roast in celebration

AgathaFusty Sun 16-Sep-12 19:30:14

Oh my! I've only just found out it starts again tonight. Very exciting.

DowagersHump Sun 16-Sep-12 19:30:16

ahem if anyone is the Dowager, it is I! grin

OhVeryFunnyHaHa Sun 16-Sep-12 19:32:03

I have a crunchie chilling in the fridge ready for 9pm. I can't wait!

Missed the christmas episode catch up. I did see it first time but would loved to have seen again. Anywhere else I can watch it?

onedev Sun 16-Sep-12 19:38:17

Thanks for this thread as I didn't even know it was back on! It's in series record now so all is good grin

Chubfuddler Sun 16-Sep-12 19:43:55

I've just seen the season trailer and have bad bad feelings about the fate of Bates and possibly Sybil too. What was that white garment fluttering over the banisters? Mary's wedding dress? Oo-er mrs if so.

Pandemoniumwearspurpleshoes Sun 16-Sep-12 19:50:21

Downtown is back on? <sets series link> This is the best news I've had all day grin

Here are a few links to wet your whistle guys & gals. grin

The Dowagers finest moments from Series 1 &2 .

Anyone going to start a sparkly new thread for tonight or shall we be re-grouping here?

tedmundo Sun 16-Sep-12 20:02:17

Small glass of wine (preggers).. Check
Mint matchmakers (half price in tescos) .. Check

Matthew, Mary, Maggie ... Eeeeeeeeeeek!!

wishfulthinking1 Sun 16-Sep-12 20:04:02

I've been catching up on itv2- just finished the first series, had forgotten how good it was! My first-trimester-self can't stay up later than 9, so am going to watch it tomorrow and avoid temptation to look at any threads that may spoil it for me in the meantime! night all- enjoy!

Soddit trigger finger-SO excited ......<get a life emoticon>

Series 1

Series 2

wishfulthinking1 Sun 16-Sep-12 20:05:01

P.s. hi ted!! Hope the pg is all going well! I'm 11 weeks today!! Eeek!!

squoosh Sun 16-Sep-12 20:19:37

I hope Matthew Crawley dies.

GeorginaWorsley Sun 16-Sep-12 20:22:23

Oh no,noo....
Or at least not until Mary up duffed

squoosh Sun 16-Sep-12 20:24:38

His sperm would be too meek to impregnate her feisty eggs.

Down with Matthew Crawley!

tedmundo Sun 16-Sep-12 20:27:03

squoosh .. WHY?? Any man who applies his eye liner better than me, gets a thumbs up in my book.

wishful HI to you too smile. I am 15+2 now. Glad things are well with you. Good luck at the 12 wk scan!

I want Edith to find luuuurve this series.

AgathaFusty Sun 16-Sep-12 20:34:05

Bossy - love the links

Housewife2010 Sun 16-Sep-12 20:58:27

I'm going to record it & start watching it at 9:30. I find that by forwarding the adverts, the recorded DA ends at the same time as the live one.

DisappointedHorse Sun 16-Sep-12 21:08:27

Is it wrong to have a massive thing for Bates? He was the reason I watched several years worth of Lark Rise to Candleford!

ProphetOfDoom Sun 16-Sep-12 21:09:22

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MildredIsMyAlterEgo Sun 16-Sep-12 21:09:33

DisappointedHorse wronger than wrongy mcwrong

ProphetOfDoom Sun 16-Sep-12 21:13:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dapplegrey Sun 16-Sep-12 21:16:13

*pedantry alert*
Would the expression 'hit the spot' as said by Carson been in existence in 1920?

hugoagogo Sun 16-Sep-12 21:23:09

Fantastic John lewis advert!

squoosh Sun 16-Sep-12 21:27:45

Thomas is very handsome.

ProphetOfDoom Sun 16-Sep-12 21:28:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ProphetOfDoom Sun 16-Sep-12 21:29:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

dapplegrey Sun 16-Sep-12 21:29:17

Sorry 'have been in existence'.

squoosh Sun 16-Sep-12 21:29:21

The man with the melted face? He just slinked away never to be mentioned again confused

Angelico Sun 16-Sep-12 21:31:41

Bit of a slow burner so far... Still at least Branson is back! grin

squoosh Sun 16-Sep-12 21:37:36

Sybil is looking a tad dowdy.

Pickle is trying his best, but it its very hard!

zgaze Sun 16-Sep-12 21:39:16

Is Sybil meant to be pregnant? I'm only half watching, have I missed a bit?

Gigondas Sun 16-Sep-12 21:39:35

Why has pickle turned into Michael Collins?

What's happened to Sybil? She looks shocking!

squoosh Sun 16-Sep-12 21:40:03

Matthew and Mary met EIGHT years ago, why was he wittering on about getting to know each other?

ooooh no Lord G don't cry......

wintera Sun 16-Sep-12 21:40:19

Is Sybil pregnant?

Gigondas Sun 16-Sep-12 21:40:35

It's a euphemism squoosh wink (but agree)

Gigondas Sun 16-Sep-12 21:40:56

Yes wintera - didn't they say in Xmas special?

squoosh I think he means properly wink after all they're never left alone are they?

wintera Sun 16-Sep-12 21:42:07

Oh right, I missed the Christmas ep so it serves me right really! Thanks for clarifying.

squoosh Sun 16-Sep-12 21:42:43

Oh sexy 'getting to know'. She should have stuck with the caddish media magante, his sexy times would have been much more exciting!

Angelico Sun 16-Sep-12 21:43:41

Yeah I was a bit confused about the absence of bump or baby with Sybil

GeorginaWorsley Sun 16-Sep-12 21:46:17

Think there is bump,hidden by flapper frock.

Is it just me or have we had more adverts than programme so far?

squoosh Sun 16-Sep-12 21:47:42

The ad breaks are v v v v annoying. Keep being yanked out of 1920.

Just need to get back into the breaks, it annoyed us last year I recall.

MissMogwi Sun 16-Sep-12 21:52:26

Why can't they bring a hottie in for Edith. That guy is a right wet blanket.

Angelico Sun 16-Sep-12 21:55:04

Oooooooh what a cad that Larry chap is!

Oh bless her she is desperate to marry.

I love Matthew even more for siding with Tom & getting him to be Best Man.

Excellent!! grin

US Grandma is going to be a match for the Dowager !

Angelico Sun 16-Sep-12 22:05:34

Nothing ever runs smoothly with those 2....

Nooooooooo Mathew & his bloody misplaced sense of guilt over weedy Lavinia. Grrrrr.

ScorpionQueen Sun 16-Sep-12 22:07:23

He should just be grateful people keep making him their heir.

MissMogwi Sun 16-Sep-12 22:08:24

Bloody Matthew and his bullshit principles. He's spoiling the game!


PeppaTwig Sun 16-Sep-12 22:08:32

Gah...too many breaks angry

squoosh Sun 16-Sep-12 22:13:01

Remember when Lavinia died, they were all eating their scrambled eggs, went to see her depart this mortal coil and then went back to resume their tea.

Run away from Matthew Mary, go be a Bright Young Thing in London.

GeorginaWorsley Sun 16-Sep-12 22:21:02

ooh I would have cast tradition aside and taken him to my bed....
Mind you,remember what happened last time Mary did thatgrin

MissMogwi Sun 16-Sep-12 22:25:16

Bit late for the birds and bees talk, Lady Grantham!

zamantha Sun 16-Sep-12 22:35:11

Loved the wedding dress - so romantic. Like Tom Branson too - interesting sub-plot.

Me fears trouble in prison.

awwwww sniff I do like a good wedding......never thought I'd see it!

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza Sun 16-Sep-12 22:36:31

Pmsl Scorpion I just got a text from my mum saying the same thing!

She is too much of a socialist to truly enjoy Downton though, she ruins it for herself focussing on the horrendous social inequality.

GeorginaWorsley Sun 16-Sep-12 22:36:36

Me too..
Tissues needed.

ProphetOfDoom Sun 16-Sep-12 22:39:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

zamantha me too....Bates is going to lamp the cellmate & get into <even more> trouble.

Love the Branson sub-plot too I think the character could develop quite well.

Considering Sybil must be about 16 wks up-duffed she is still looks very svelte. I love the flapper bob she is sporting!

outtolunchagain Sun 16-Sep-12 22:42:36

Beautiful dress and they came in to the same music that I did . Really hope Bates doesn't mess everything up , fear he is going to be murdered whilst Anna is in Francesad

EnjoyGOLDResponsibly Sun 16-Sep-12 22:43:37

I reckon they won't make it through the reception with Lord Gs "exploding chest" becoming a full blown cardiac arrest.

Jf is nothing if not subtle.

GeorginaWorsley Sun 16-Sep-12 22:44:35

Will Shirley maclaine save the day financially?
Her face doesn't move when she talkssmile

milktraylady Sun 16-Sep-12 22:45:09

Hey Sqoosh I know the actor who plays Thomas and yes he's even more dashing in real life!

Loving Mary's wedding dress, beauuuutiful smile

Mama1980 Sun 16-Sep-12 22:45:14

I cried blush blame the pregnancy hormones

Northernlurkerisbackatwork Sun 16-Sep-12 22:45:16

Well that was fun. Loved the wedding dress and obligatory pre-wedding row.

Branston thoroughly rehabilitated as 'the son in law who's a radical but so interesting' grin

Schmaltzing - Sir Anthony Whatsit has a useless right arm thus apparently making him unsuitable to be a husband hmm

Northernlurkerisbackatwork Sun 16-Sep-12 22:47:30

Georgina - I don't think Shirley can save the day as her husband's money had already been passed to Cora and thus frittered on railway tracks by Lord G. Shirley will be comfortable but won't have a lot of cash. Loaded chaps tend to leave their money to their offspring not their widows because a widow could marry again and leave the cash to somebody else - or fritter it on train tracks........

Clawdy Sun 16-Sep-12 22:49:23

Edith looks prettier this series.
Why did Bates almost deliberately rub his cellmate up the wrong way?
Matthew is a pompous twit. But I did like his kindness to Pickle.
Wonder who will play the missing heir when he turns up....

squoosh Sun 16-Sep-12 22:49:36

Oh milktraylady lucky you. He's the only good looking guy in the whole show! Have you ever seen him naked? Just a polite enquiry grin

Northernlurkerisbackatwork Sun 16-Sep-12 22:49:59

I think Lord G should sell the London House - it NEVER gets used and if they keep it, it'll only get bombed in a few years. Speaking of which we should tell Mary and Matthew not to have babies for a few years or the son and heir will be right in the middle of another world war.

I expect the near ruin will be averted by the mysterious resurrection at the last minute of the Canadian Train Co. Probably also accompanied by the mysterious resurrection of Mr Pillbox.

toysoldiers Sun 16-Sep-12 22:50:11

Completely forgotten what went on with Edith and Sir Anthony after Mary told him Edith thought he was boring.

Should have watched series 2 again. blush

tribpot Sun 16-Sep-12 22:50:50

God I really thought Lord 6 (are we still calling him that?) was gonna drop dead of a heart attack before the wedding took place.

Sybil's hair! Brings new meaning to the term fright-wig.

I see Dame Shirley is going to treat us to a Downton version of her turn in Postcards on the Edge when she steals the scene from Meryl Streep with a tub-thumping rendition of I'm Still Here.

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza Sun 16-Sep-12 22:53:22

Sybil and Branson had better not go back to Dublin.

Well he got her to the altar.....just wondering if someone from the Turkish Embassy is going to jump in at the "just cause or impediment" bit??!

Northernlurkerisbackatwork Sun 16-Sep-12 22:53:25

Mary told an untruth, Sir A disappeared with hurt puppy look, came back from the war (despite being older than Lord G hmm) refusinhg to shoot and turned out to have a wounded wing. Lady E made it clear she still considered him to be the only man likely to marry her and here we are.

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza Sun 16-Sep-12 22:54:01

Actually they are both full cast members this year so I bet they won't!

squoosh Sun 16-Sep-12 22:54:51

I liked when Mary was an acid faced bitch.

GeorginaWorsley Sun 16-Sep-12 22:55:03

I remember reading about a speech in parliament in the 1930's saying a boy born at the end of the Great War would be just old enough to fight in the second.sad

DowagersHump Sun 16-Sep-12 22:56:27

What I want to know is how they all know when to all be standing outside the house to greet someone. If Shirley was coming from Liverpool by car, you'd have to give a margin of at least 1/2 an hour each way wouldn't you? And what if they'd had a flat or some other calamity?

Is there someone at the gatehouse keeping watch who calls ahead and they all quickly muster on the front steps?

dementedma Sun 16-Sep-12 22:58:02

Wedding dress looked like a duvet cover.Edith is being a tad desperate Cora is already pissing me off with her baby doll breathless voice. Matthew is a wet blanket. Love it!

Angelico Sun 16-Sep-12 23:01:58

It is imperative that Branson stays in England because he is the only bit of scrumptious crumpet in the whole series. Or maybe potato bread. He's scrumptious potato bread, not crumpet grin

squoosh Sun 16-Sep-12 23:04:52

Thomas is the good looking one! He just needs to work on his people skills.

tribpot Sun 16-Sep-12 23:05:11

Branson was looking like a fine figure of a man, as if he's somehow feeding on all of Sybil's attractiveness and sucking it out of her (not literally).

EnjoyGOLDResponsibly Sun 16-Sep-12 23:05:29

Dowager they've got a gatehouse, plus the station master would've rung ahead.

DowagersHump Sun 16-Sep-12 23:08:00

But she came in the car from Liverpool - she said! So no stationmaster involved. What on earth did they do before phones were invented (some time during series 1 I seem to remember)?

God I'm a pedant blush

squoosh Sun 16-Sep-12 23:09:19

They weren't as pretty in this series. Is it the HD?

Northernlurkerisbackatwork Sun 16-Sep-12 23:10:04

The lodge is at least 2 miles away from the house. The lodgekeeper would ring through and they'd all hightail it out the door.

I'm worried about the car hire - think she might ask Lord G to pay for it......

milktraylady Sun 16-Sep-12 23:12:49

Ha ha no Squoosh only met Thomas fully clothed! But he did get mobbed- out in Manchester when he was still in Corrie. Pitied his girlfriend as he was mobbed.
She's lovely too, now wife actually.

And yes Branson is very Irish looking handsomeness, yumwink

milktraylady Sun 16-Sep-12 23:15:36

I thought OBrien looked better, and Lady Sybil looked awful. Maybe the makeup dept was overcompensating for HD filming?
Or they were being realistic for Sybil feeling like shite while Preg?

Dozer Sun 16-Sep-12 23:16:10

Branson is horrible, controlling!

They all look wrinklier.

Angelico Sun 16-Sep-12 23:17:56

Nay Dozer, how can you say that? He's a passionate man!!!

Angelico Sun 16-Sep-12 23:18:56

And I expect it's the impending poverty and move to a different sort of estate that's making them wrinkly grin

<Imagines Lord G sharing a bottle with Shameless cast>

SloeFarSloeGood Sun 16-Sep-12 23:21:53


Northernlurkerisbackatwork Sun 16-Sep-12 23:22:50

I do think Branston treads a bloody fine line between pasionately fighing for his woman etc etc <<swoon>> and bullying her in to being with him <<boo>>

squoosh Sun 16-Sep-12 23:23:56

No one ever cracks a joke. I could never live in a costume drama, I like a laugh too much. They're all so bloody earnest.

Bates is getting very fat on prison rations. He needs to low carb.

Of course they're all a bit more wrinkly & worn, they've been through a war doncha know ! grin

tribpot Sun 16-Sep-12 23:25:10

I love the idea of low carbing in a prison in 1920.

squoosh Sun 16-Sep-12 23:29:05

All he needs to do is eschew the porridge and scoff the maggots.

Angelico Sun 16-Sep-12 23:30:01

Branson can sweep me into the back of his motor car any time grin

squoosh I agree. Anna needs to bring some of Mrs Patmore's rations for Bates, he is looking bloody awful.

Angelico Sun 16-Sep-12 23:30:27

Surely it's gruel not porridge?

squoosh Sun 16-Sep-12 23:34:17

I did like the look of Mrs Patmore's wedding spread. I'd be the fattest kitchen maid in the land!

Northernlurkerisbackatwork Sun 16-Sep-12 23:37:49

If Daisy does all the work and Mrs P does all the talk then what the heck do the several other kitchen maids seen in the back of shot do? I'd sack them for a start. I can never understand how Mr Carson has spasms about having footmen but Anna appears to be the only housemaid atm AND she has to ladys maid the young ladies too. I suppose the financial woes mean they can't take on another naughty housemaid - but you would expect Mrs H to moan a bit too.

SoupDragon Mon 17-Sep-12 07:09:09

I assume the "kitchen maids" at the back are the missing house maids.

Northernlurkerisbackatwork Mon 17-Sep-12 07:59:37

They were wearing kitchen maid scruff rather than housemaid charming print though.

Did anyone else think some of the hemlines yesterday were too short for 1920?

SoupDragon Mon 17-Sep-12 08:57:30

Oh, I'm clueless as to the niceties of the uniform grin

I assumed they were the make-the-fires change-the-beds kind of maids though. There must be some of those.

SoupDragon Mon 17-Sep-12 08:58:27

Weren't the hemlines all well below the knee? I didn't really notice TBH.

MadamGazelleIsMyMum Mon 17-Sep-12 09:05:09

So exciting it is back. Love Pickle and his air of resignation after his speech to the Dowager Countess and Cousin Isabelle about his discomfort about wearing an outfit which he considers a mark of oppression... and then they make him try it on.

Also <pedantry alert> would Anna really have used the expression about men not being like buses in 1920? Charabanc, possibly.

mateysmum Mon 17-Sep-12 09:24:42

Sybil is not allowed to be as pretty as before, because she has gone from being hot,young, feisty, single Lady Sybil to plain old downtrodden, pregnant, poor Mrs Pickle married to someone who only has one ill fitting suit.

I think Pickle will end up going back to Ireland without Sybil and there he will be shot fighting for the the IRA.

Angelico Mon 17-Sep-12 09:50:20

Okay... I was determined not to ask but... <caves in> ... why Pickle? grin

SoupDragon Mon 17-Sep-12 09:54:49

Branson... Branston... Branston Pickle.

Angelico Mon 17-Sep-12 10:00:55

Ah, the mystery is solved!

hattymattie Mon 17-Sep-12 10:05:36

Well - I loved it but it was ruined by far too many ad breaks angry I hate it when ITV does this. I'm going to stop watching and buy the DVD's which will surely be out in time for Christmas!

diddl Mon 17-Sep-12 10:06:00

"I think Pickle will end up going back to Ireland without Sybil and there he will be shot fighting for the the IRA."

Yes, I was thinking that.

He has to go back to work.

She´s not fit enough to travel yet.

Then the heir will come back & she´ll marry himgrin

scrapaddict Mon 17-Sep-12 10:08:38

Was a late comer to Downton but have now got involved and loved last night's episode. For me Brendan Coyle and Maggie Smith make this unmissable so I hope Bates does get out of jail free

LadyHarrietdeSpook Mon 17-Sep-12 10:14:21

As a Yank I think Shirley MacLaine's character's schtick about how the English are stuck in their ways and the Yanks so forward thinking (isn't it great that the Irish chauffeur became a journalist) yada yada yada is ridiculous and waring although undoubtedly when DA crosses the Atlantic in January the Yanks will want to BELIEVE an upper class person of her generation and ilk would have held those views. Honestly.

Just about the only thing I could see would really have happened was when she confronted Matthew about why he was entitled to have all her husband's money (and not her own granddaughters.) Yes, to that. And an interesting turn I hadn't considered. They could have made more of that.

diddl Mon 17-Sep-12 10:26:26

But didn´t some Americans want titled husbands?

The unfortunate thing was that Robert´s father tied up the money.

Was that a condition of the marriage with Cora?

If so-why do it?

I think the hemlines were steadily rising in 1920 as the practicalities of a working woman during the war made floor length dresses redundant.

After all the flapper dresses were about to be all the rage!

Apart from those like the Dowager who are firmly in the long dress era.

Katienana Mon 17-Sep-12 10:31:16

Is it that in english law the womens money became the property of her husband? Or it could have been the as you say diddl. if cora had had a boy, it wouldn't have been a problem.

Oops must refresh before posting!

NewChoos Mon 17-Sep-12 10:34:40

Not read all thread but I am going to find it very tiring if the will he or won't he inherit/ will he or won't he save Downton plot goes on for ever and ever.

Prison rations must have been vv generous in 1920's.

Bit disappointed in Lady's Mary's dress.

Pickle was very irritating and I find his eyes unsettling.
Other then that, looking forward to next week smile

Northernlurkerisbackatwork Mon 17-Sep-12 10:34:46

Hemlines were rising but not imo quite as high as they went last night - yes they were below the knee but not far enough below the knee in some outfits. They were lower (and rightly so) in the Christmas episode and that's supposed to be only a few months earlier. This is only 1920. The flapper look came in later. Sybil has her hair bobbed - all the rest will be doing that soon.

Northernlurkerisbackatwork Mon 17-Sep-12 10:36:34

The money thing - Cora's money was tied to the estate by Robert's father so that the Downton estate was supported. Otherwise the money could be bought in and then taken out again leaving to estate up the creek. Of course that didn't stop Lord G taking a flyer with nearly all of it.........

LadyHarrietdeSpook Mon 17-Sep-12 10:52:53

yes diddl that's my point. she clearly knew what her daughter was marrying into when she did it. and good point about the cash - the woman who is now moaning about it obviously realised what was going to happen when her daughter married Lord G at the time. So all of this: isn't Downton so staid thing is coming a bit late in the day.

squoosh Mon 17-Sep-12 10:56:48

It needs a big fat injection of zip. Everyone's being so nice to each other which is quite dull. They needs more light and shade amongst the upstairs characters and they need to let Thomas get back to his dasterdly ways.

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza Mon 17-Sep-12 11:31:37

I used to love Bates and Anna, they need to have him found innocent ASAP and the pair of them move to a house on the estate and be HAPPY. They are lovely when they are happy. They could still be in the show!

But their whole storyline last series was such crapola.

blisterpack Mon 17-Sep-12 11:48:32

Do these big estates survive so long only by being injected with other, completely unconnected, people's money? In just this generation we're seeing Downton has been saved by the money of Cora's father, and now possibly the family of Lavinia Swire. What a bunch of scroungers. wink

diddl Mon 17-Sep-12 12:04:58

What I also meant was that the money was just for the estate & there was never any provision for future GC(?)

And all that the Gs had hoped for was that Mary would marry the heir, therefore benefitting in an indirect way.

I also see that it has turned out as she thought-but hardly Matthew´s fault.

At least he´s going to marry Mary.

Will he have to work now??!!

limitedperiodonly Mon 17-Sep-12 12:19:05

Right, watched the recording just now so I can FF the adverts.

Lord 6 really is a fuckwit, isn't he?

Branston reminds me a lot of Father Dougal when someone slips Rohypnol in his wine.

Couldn't they save Downton by hiring it out to some company involved in that new-fangled TV business?

messyisthenewtidy Mon 17-Sep-12 12:30:22

Pickle will have to die in his fight for Irish Home Rule so that Sybil can be exciting again and have a romance. Otherwise there is no-one marriageable with a potential for romance.

Agree to whoever said the whole American "aren't the Brits so quaint and old-fashioned" is getting boring already! The yanks are obsessed with the monarchy plus they had all those distinctions between "old money" and "new money" (as evidenced by Kate's mum and DP in the Titanic) so it's clear they had a class system too.

hmm Oh lord, have I just started quoting films to argue my point? I think I've finally lost touch with reality ......

DublinMammy Mon 17-Sep-12 12:53:06

So excited DA is back on - hurrah for the first episode, despite bloody stupid number of ad breaks..... grrrr.....

Am having mental block as to why Thomas and O'Brien have apparently fallen out with each other? They used to be thick as thieves, smoking, plotting, bitching etc and now they are curling their lips at and refusing to help each other... Anyone know?

squoosh Mon 17-Sep-12 12:54:56

I think they fell out because of Thomas' bullying of the shellshocked footman. O'Brien thought he went too far.

Can't remember anything aside from that.

toysoldiers Mon 17-Sep-12 12:59:45

Didn't O'Brien have a bit of a character overhaul after the whole Cora slippy soap escapade and suddenly stop being evil?

squoosh Mon 17-Sep-12 13:00:50

Oh I forgot about the soap incident.

Oooohhh she's a wrong 'un.

dementedma Mon 17-Sep-12 13:04:21

I think also Thomas is pissed off at O'Brien bringing in her nephew

DublinMammy Mon 17-Sep-12 13:36:09

Ah, had forgotten about the shellshocked guy..... Thought I must have missed some big falling out as it was such a marked difference in their relationship....

DilysPrice Mon 17-Sep-12 13:57:48

Am I the only one who still fancies Matthew? Surely not; he's practically perfect in every way (or is that the problem?)

I agree that Sybil will have a "funny turn" at the reception and be ordered by the doctor to stay at Downton until the baby is born. The Anglo-Irish war peaked in early 1921 so they could well kill off Pickle then (cue deeply annoying "I need you with me Pickle!" "I'm disappointed in you Sybil, don't you know that the struggle comes first" "Take care!" "Oh I'll be completely fine" <heroic pose, sound of gunfire off-screen> scene).

Actually it would be more interesting to kill him off in the Irish Civil War, but he's always been such an arse to Sybil that I'd rather get rid of him ASAP.

I suspect that "men are like buses" is not anachronistic. Fellowes has a notebook full of earliest sources for phrases so that when someone says "Would Lord Grantham really have said LMFAO?" he can respond with proof that the phrase was first used in Cymbeline (1611). However I doubt that Anna, who's been living in the countryside for ten years would have used it to Mary, who's never been on a bus in her life.

squoosh Mon 17-Sep-12 14:02:11

Am I the only one who still fancies Matthew? Surely not; he's practically perfect in every way

If Matthew was a paint shade he would be magnolia
If Matthew was a foodstuff he'd be porridge
If Matthew was a material he'd be polyester
If Matthew was a shop he'd be BHS

Matthew is so so, so, so, so, so, so boring. He ruins the programme for me.

Ahhhh, that feels better! smile

I realise though that lots of people disagree with me.

Vagaceratops Mon 17-Sep-12 14:05:14

I agree with you Squoosh.

He is just so blah.

outtolunchagain Mon 17-Sep-12 14:11:39

Dilys you are not aloneblush

limitedperiodonly Mon 17-Sep-12 14:12:10

Why do they keep referencing O'Brien's nephew's height? He's tall but he's not a freak.

Did it have something to do with Matthew asking Carson (I think) to bend lower to dish up the sprouts?

Creamy porridge with lots of sugar would be my death row meal. Not that fussed about Matthew though.

diddl Mon 17-Sep-12 14:21:25

Oh Squoosh, you are so right.

Mind you, I don´t like Mary & am hoping that they´ll ship off to USA with Martha.

I thought he was OK at first, but he just seems an insufferable bore/snob now.

FFS-he´s being kept by Lord G!!

blisterpack Mon 17-Sep-12 14:24:28

Matthew is better than Pickle. I don't know what Sybil saw, or sees, in him. She was supposed to be this feisty, independent girl and she goes and chooses that miserable, creepy man. It has ruined that character completely. I hope he dies soon so that she's free to be herself again.

squoosh Mon 17-Sep-12 14:32:31

Yes Sybil used to be a proper firebrand, wearing harem trousers, nursing, interest in politics. Now she's a dutiful wife. They've shortchanged her character.

I think they'll probably kill him off although if he does die it will need to be at Downton rather than in Ireland as they don't film anywhere else and will be reluctant to miss out on Pickle's tear jerking departure.

Vagaceratops Mon 17-Sep-12 14:46:01

I think Bates will be murdered in prison, or murder his cell mate in self defence therefore giving him a real reason to be in jail sad.

I dont like pickle either. He never used to be so OTT, otherwise why was he working at Downton? Its like they have made him a bit more controversial to spice up the story line.

Flicktheswitch Mon 17-Sep-12 15:19:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

squoosh Mon 17-Sep-12 15:20:59

I think it's beacause he was a bit of a wounded lamb. The scene where he crying in his sad little room after being fired from his Valet job after being set up by the baddies was v sad

I don't fancy him though, that baffles me!

LadyHarrietdeSpook Mon 17-Sep-12 15:28:11

Loathe the Bates storyline. I love Anna but never 'got' him or the affection between them. We use it as tea wine breaks.

It almost feels like Julian Fellows has got himself into such a hole he can't let it go even though logically it doesn't really seem to fit in with the rest of the story.

The food intolerance thing with Cora's mother was ridiculous too.

HOpe Edith finally gets it together with Sir A.

Flicktheswitch Mon 17-Sep-12 15:30:04

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

squoosh Mon 17-Sep-12 15:39:05

I don't think the male characters are half as good as the female.

They need someone a bit dashing and handsome to swoop in. Someone exciting.

Flicktheswitch Mon 17-Sep-12 15:40:55

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

squoosh Mon 17-Sep-12 15:43:47

Oooh it would be good if he did!

Flicktheswitch Mon 17-Sep-12 15:48:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

squoosh Mon 17-Sep-12 15:49:49

Yep, it's getting dull, there's only so many times he can stare fondly at Anna and she can stare fondly and stoically back at him.

DilysPrice Mon 17-Sep-12 15:51:45

I want to see Bates snap, scream "I killed her and now I'll kill you!", decapitate his cell-mate and then eat his internal organs. It is post-watershed after all, and it would definitely shut up the people who moan that everything is cliched and predictable.

RuleBritannia Mon 17-Sep-12 16:20:52

Why does a good story in a period drama have to be 'spiced up' with grisly bits, affairs, illegitimate babies (well, I suppose they did have them then), hauling a dead body from one bedroom to another and people lost on the Titanic.

Let's have a nice Mrs Dale's Diary sort of thing.

mommybunny Mon 17-Sep-12 16:37:19

I'd LOVE Matthew if it weren't for his weak chin (I have a thing for chins - don't ask me why). As it is I like him very much, and Mary too, and if it had been anyone other than Pickle uttering the line "you could never be with anyone else so long as Lady Mary walks this earth" I'd have sighed instead of retching. I thought the scene in Series 2 where he and Mary danced together and broke Lavinia's heart was electrifying - it redeemed, at least for me, all the rubbish that had gone before in that series. I think they have fantastic chemistry - I also loved the scene in the Xmas special when Mary confessed all to Matthew and he said, with a sly sideways glance "I could never hate you". SIGH!

Michelle Dockery sealed her status one of the best acresses of her generation with her scene in Series 1 when Cora asked her whether Mr Pamuk had "forced himself" on her. Without a word, she nailed brilliantly that little flicker that told her that there might be a way out of the horrible mess she'd found herself in, but she just couldn't bring herself to so dishonour a dead man. I wish Cora had given her more credit for that, and Robert too, once he found out (what, 7 years after it had happened?!).

Anyway, a great night's TV (that would have been better without the ad breaks, I will grant you).

Chubfuddler Mon 17-Sep-12 16:42:39

I've always thought he did it. I'm sure he did.

MarthasHarbour Mon 17-Sep-12 16:47:02

Am i the only one who thought last night that Thomas all but confessed to killing Vera Bates?

He and OBrien were in the corridor, she was talking about her nephew wanting to be valet, Thomas did this hmm and said 'do you not remember what i had to do to become valet' and OBrien said 'yes i saw it'

I could be wrong but i think that Thomas and OBrien killed Vera Bates in order to implicate Mr Bates in order for Thomas to step in as Valet... <phew>

Bagsy the glory if i am right grin <nods>

squoosh Mon 17-Sep-12 16:52:53

Oh I didn't see that scene, but I'll be annoyed if Thomas is the killer as we already know he's a baddie. I want Bates to be unveiled as a heartless wife poisoner so all of Downton and all Bate's fans will be aghast!

Chubfuddler Mon 17-Sep-12 17:08:41

Oh, I thought he was just referring to all his general skull duggery and sucking up, partucularly working for nothing (well food and a bed) after the war. And shooting himself in the hand.

limitedperiodonly Mon 17-Sep-12 17:11:37

Ooh martha didn't think of that.

I can't believe any believes Vera to killed herself. Arsenic poisoning's really painful and messy.

I've seen The Name of the Rose.

<I base most of my views on the world on popular TV and cinema>

squoosh Mon 17-Sep-12 17:12:44

Would you kill someone to become a valet?

squoosh Mon 17-Sep-12 17:20:58

I've just remembered, did he not kidnap the fat labrador and then 'rescue' it in order to gain Lord G's favour and hence a promotion? That must be what he meant.

SoupDragon Mon 17-Sep-12 17:49:31

That's an interesting thought, Martha...

HoldMeCloserTonyDanza Mon 17-Sep-12 18:25:42

Matthew is all right but oh lord CRINGE at his references to sexytimes last night. Blergh...

NewChoos Mon 17-Sep-12 18:29:53

Wasn't Thomas away in the army when Mrs Bates was killed?

NewChoos Mon 17-Sep-12 18:35:00

Although I do love a conspiracy!

tribpot Mon 17-Sep-12 18:56:36

My quote of the day goes to Dilys for:

Fellowes has a notebook full of earliest sources for phrases so that when someone says "Would Lord Grantham really have said LMFAO?" he can respond with proof that the phrase was first used in Cymbeline (1611).

diddl Mon 17-Sep-12 18:59:07

Anyone else think that Matthew would be right not to hand over the money if he inherited?

Won´t they need it to support themselves?

Would they really be expected to move into Downton?

I think that Richard wotsit killed Vera.

Chubfuddler Mon 17-Sep-12 19:04:55

Yes if it wasn't bates then Carlisle defo had her killed to protect Mary from the secret half of London already knew

DilysPrice Mon 17-Sep-12 19:07:42

I want to think that Sir Richard killed Vera, but there's no hint of Iain Glen returning - he's too busy being Sexy-Mysterious in Game of Thrones, which is very much Downton's loss IMO.

dobeessneeze Mon 17-Sep-12 19:08:55

Sorry - a very boring (but important) interjection - I missed it last night; is it repeated at any point this week? I couldn't find it on the ITV website.

Back to the conspiracies...

diddl Mon 17-Sep-12 19:20:31

´tis on itv player.

ErikNorseman Mon 17-Sep-12 19:54:54

Did anyone else love it unreservedly? I did!
I adore lady Mary with a passion. Matthew is lovely and honourable (though he should hand the money over and stop taking the blame for Lavinia dying)
Bates and Anna are rather lovely, though I do think he might have offed his wife. Perhaps he had a drink and lost the plot?
Pickle is turning out to be a bit of a twat but I do feel for him. He isn't taking lady Sybil's feelings into account but he's also in a terribly difficult position and is just trying to be true to himself.

Chubfuddler Mon 17-Sep-12 19:57:49

Me erik. I get v v excited by it. It's completely disproportionate.

ErikNorseman Mon 17-Sep-12 20:01:45


ErikNorseman Mon 17-Sep-12 20:02:18

Hmm that should have been grin

Chubfuddler Mon 17-Sep-12 20:16:17

In fact "love unreservedly" is the sort of thing Matthew says.

<goes to happy place where is daughter of earl married to Matthew>

ErikNorseman Mon 17-Sep-12 20:24:50


margerykemp Mon 17-Sep-12 20:25:53

I think Anna should find out that she's a few months pregnant and then someone will swap her's and sybil's babies.

Did anyone else suspect that Carson could be Lady Mary's father? He is very very fond of her.

Thomas and O'Brien's plotting was good to watch.

Will Lady Mary get Anna as a ft lady's maid now she's married? Will that put O'Brian's nose out of joint. Will that mean a new housemaid come in? What ever did happen to Ethel or Gwen- I'd like to see her return as a visitor's secretary.

Maybe someone will die in a car crash, given how dangerous they were those days.

I want pickle killed off too. And Mr Superinjunction because that's all I can think of now when I see him. It's the only way matthew and mary can stay in the big house. Then Matthew can moan about supporting Mary's deadbeat spinster sisters. Cora and Violet can fight over the Dowager house.

If mary has a baby it will have a nanny I guess which might make for good storylines on how involved upper class women were with their DCs.

I'm sure Mary and Isobel will have some good MIL run ins- he is such a mummy's boy!

diddl Mon 17-Sep-12 20:29:37

I did like it though when Branson said something like-"my suitcase wasn´t lost, & nor were my manners".

I suppose to us it´s hard to see what all the fuss is about.

Although I do get that someone who was once the paid help now at the dinner table would be awkward.

I do like Isobel-"Bravo, Matthew!"

But then when they were saying about a dinner suit & a set of clothes kept at Downton I thought that they really don´t get it at all about money.

Perhaps Lord G is about to!

RuleBritannia Mon 17-Sep-12 20:30:00

I wonder if Julian Fellowes is reading this thread, looking for ideas for the next series?

awbless Mon 17-Sep-12 20:30:41

Me too erik. And lady Mary's 'going away outfit' was to die for.

I just love it.

(well thought out and articulate post from me grin )

Chubfuddler Mon 17-Sep-12 20:36:58

I immediately wondered why I didn't have a going away outfit.

cocolepew Mon 17-Sep-12 20:45:41

Isobel always looks like she's trying to stop her teeth from falling out.

I love Bates, baddie newspaper man did it.

ScorpionQueen Mon 17-Sep-12 21:38:23

I just watched last night's for the second time Carson did look every bit as proud as Lord G.

GeorginaWorsley Mon 17-Sep-12 21:52:09

Can't imagine Cora and Carson,tbh....

cynner Mon 17-Sep-12 21:53:21

I find Thomas sexy in a disurbing manner..

tribpot Mon 17-Sep-12 21:58:55

Ooh no, Thomas fancies himself far more than any other human being. <shudder>

I think Carson just feels extremely paternal towards Mary because, being an aristo's daughter, she's closer to the servants than she is her own parents.

Surely Pickle can't die? It's too much of a cliche even for Downton.

Question. If the bob is about to come into fashion, how come Sybil-fright-wig is ahead of the curve compared to her rich fashionista sisters? Or was it more popular among the poor first and adopted by the rich later? My extensive reading of history in the period (The House of Elliot) recalls the sisters there bobbing way before their seamstresses.

Chubfuddler Mon 17-Sep-12 22:07:04

Sybil still has long hair. It's pinned like that.

I'm amazed at how completely flat her abdomen is. She wrote to her mother at Christmas to say she was pg. how long ago was that on the timeline?

tribpot Mon 17-Sep-12 22:11:13

I thought she was wearing rather loose gowns? Initially I thought we were two years or so on from the Xmas special and the absence of a baby meant something awful had happened, but I think it's actually about 3 months later?

LadyHarrietdeSpook Mon 17-Sep-12 22:39:33

DilysPrice Mon 17-Sep-12 15:51:45
I want to see Bates snap, scream "I killed her and now I'll kill you!", decapitate his cell-mate and then eat his internal organs. It is post-watershed after all, and it would definitely shut up the people who moan that everything is cliched and predictable.

dilys is a very welcome addition to the Downton threads..."IMHO."

DilysPrice Mon 17-Sep-12 22:40:38

I had a going away outfit. It was a simple short white dress and the shop assistant got the wrong end of the stick and told me I couldn't possibly wear it to a wedding reception until I explained to her that yes I could because it was my bloody wedding. <slightly off topic>

diddl Tue 18-Sep-12 06:58:48

I also had a going away outfit.

Because we went away after the reception.

PowerDresser Tue 18-Sep-12 07:14:08

I had a going away outfit. A pink dress with brown accessories. It looked lovely. Went to the Scilly Isles for honeymoon - considered to be 'abroad' in those days.

limitedperiodonly Tue 18-Sep-12 07:35:51

It's spring 1920. You can tell by the blossom on the trees.
<and the subtitle at the beginning>

limitedperiodonly Tue 18-Sep-12 07:43:39

Also they are doing the Downton Pocket Guide to History again.

Note the careful references to Home Rule in Pickle's sozzled rant and the serving of new-fangled cocktails.

If Matthew doesn't get the inheritance from Lavinia's dad there'll probably be a storyline where Cora's mother revives the family fortunes by bootlegging.

DilysPrice Tue 18-Sep-12 07:43:50

Why thank you Lady Harriet <bobs quick curtesy in manner of 'tweenie>

DublinMammy Tue 18-Sep-12 13:47:48

Hear, hear, LadyHarriet, Dilys made me snort with laughter too!

How long will it be before someone punches Isobel for being an interfering, annoying bat?

Aha there you are LadyH & Limited

<rounds up more of last years gang>

I love it unreservedly too grin

Dilys you are quote of the week material!

Something Is Brewing between Bates & cellmate......hope he doesn't lose that famous stiff upper lip...was hoping Anna would be upduffed from the one honeymoon night. sad

I cried when Mary came down, first at her looking lovely & then at the paternal pride on both Carson & Lord G's faces....... yep soft as butter me.

Feel rather sorry for Edith, she is DESPERATE to get hitched & is practically carrying an arrow over her head for Sir Strallen who is very sweet if rather pathetic. She was VERY forward in kissing him goobye after his visit. grin

invicta Tue 18-Sep-12 15:26:27

I've always wondered whether Cora had an affair in the past with Carson, and whether he is actually Mary's father... .

limitedperiodonly Tue 18-Sep-12 15:40:54


I was queasy enough when Cora told Mary that when you loved someone you didn't mind him putting his winkle in you, even if he was Lord 6.

Don't suggest she's had Carson's winkle in her too.

Imagine the two of them puffing and blowing in your earhole...

limitedperiodonly Tue 18-Sep-12 15:41:20

Hello to you too bossybritches

squoosh Tue 18-Sep-12 15:42:35

Did they use the word winkle? I was sanding a table whilst watching it so missed half of it.

limitedperiodonly Tue 18-Sep-12 15:49:42

Julian Fellowes's otherwise unemployable daughter said in her companion book to the series (RRP £250) that winkles were growing in popularity among the English upper classes between the Wars.

Being a colonialist Cora's mother would have preferred a big wanger. Or weenie if she had to make do with a small one.

limitedperiodonly Tue 18-Sep-12 15:51:17

Is sanding a table a euphemism? Like polishing the candlesticks?

squoosh Tue 18-Sep-12 15:56:02

Yes, 'sanding a table' refers to vigorously stimulating a todger of epic and gargantuan proportions. Bloody thing kept blocking the screen. Didn't block Bates and his flourishing prison physique however grin

diddl Tue 18-Sep-12 17:06:02

"Julian Fellowes's otherwise unemployable daughter"

Do you mean his wife, Emma Kitchener Fellowes?

I think that they only have a son-Peregrine K-F

DilysPrice Tue 18-Sep-12 17:12:45

Jessica Fellowes - his niece.

limitedperiodonly Tue 18-Sep-12 17:34:08

Oh, she's his niece is she? She wrote a smashing book on the show. I gave it to my MIL

margerykemp Tue 18-Sep-12 18:40:35

Sybil is only 21 and has lived her life in corsets so I dont imagine she'll get a huge bump anytime soon.

Oh I remember a line from a saucy drama we had in our village hall once....squoosh

"French polishing a piece of Fine English Oak"

The Dowager would have had the vapours.......grin

ErikNorseman Tue 18-Sep-12 19:21:12

I'm just watching again - when Sybil arrives she definitely has a small bump and her hair does look shorter at the front. The dresses were very loose and low at the waist in the 20s so wouldn't have shown much of a bump on a slim woman.

MarthasHarbour Tue 18-Sep-12 22:19:08

I did detect a slight bump when Sybil arrived, and then she did the tell tale giveaway hand on tummy bump thing.

I still maintain that Thomas killed Vera, and am prepared to take the glory if i am correct grin

Anyone else reckon Pickle is a bit of a demon in the boudoir? wink he has that 'glint in the eye' as my nanna would say grin <my nanna is a minx though - keeps reminding me that i have to give DH special cuddles and attention to keep my marriage alive - er thanks for that nan hmm>

cocolepew Tue 18-Sep-12 23:46:06

When sybil was sitting talking to mary she was running her bump, so to speak.

ErikNorseman Wed 19-Sep-12 06:50:44

Her hair is bobbed, I'm 99% sure. It has been styled to curl under at the bottom so it looks pinned but I'm almost sure it's short.

tribpot Wed 19-Sep-12 07:06:02

Right so it's time for Bobwatch - although the way the series zipped through WW1 last season, I'm expecting it to be 1923 this week, skirts above the knees and even Violet with bobbed hair drinking martinis and smoking a fag in a long ivory holder.

RuleBritannia Wed 19-Sep-12 07:41:35


No, the Dowager Duchess will not change her clothing. One has only to look at 1953 pictures of Queen Mary to see that although I don't know what she did in private re cigarettes and vodka.

Female members of the Royal Family were still wearing long dresses at Princess Anne's first wedding in 1973.

RuleBritannia Wed 19-Sep-12 07:41:53

Or was it Princess Margaret's in 1960?

diddl Wed 19-Sep-12 07:50:59

Even QM didn´t wear long (floor length) dresses all the time though.


It´s not short-but it shows her ankles!

tribpot Wed 19-Sep-12 07:53:35

I know - I was kidding about Violet becoming a flapper. It must have been very strange having grown up in such a different era.

diddl Wed 19-Sep-12 08:06:18

That was in answer to RB, btw.

Although I doubt that Violet will change from floor length.

QM would have been about 70 in that pic-taken in 1939-and Violet must be mid 70s & it´s only 1920 with the change just happening.

MorrisZapp Wed 19-Sep-12 08:49:21

Tall waiter is not O'Brien's nephew.

I don't know who is is yet, but she jumped when she was referred to as his aunt.

Love child?

Toy boy?

Partner in long buried crime?

oooh well spotted Morris a love child from a long ago fling with the master of (another) house perchance....would explain her bitter attitude to them!!

Fiderer Wed 19-Sep-12 09:11:49

<snort> at 'sanding a table'.

I loved it too, absolutely wonderful tosh, as it should be. Carson is very paternal towards Mary I think, because he never had a family of his own. So the Grantleys were/are his family. Came up before with Mrs Hughes and again at the wedding when he mentioned to her about being proud and she replies she is pleased. For her the Grantleys are only her employers.

I have a spot spot for Sir Anthony Strallan, want him to marry Edith but I fear Violet and Lord Fatty Bum Bum will scupper it.

Pickle annoyed me though. The "slipped a mickey" scene was enough (and v enjoyable) without his berating the family at the first dinner. Selfish rude sod, he must have known how much it meant to Sybil to go home.

Fiderer I agree, to Carson The Granthams are his family, he & Lord G have a close working relationship that in later times might have been called friendship.

I too have a feeling Edith will not be encouraged although I think she genuinely likes him as he admires her & she doesn't get much attention!

Pickle is going to come to a sticky end isn't he? Bless him he looked so awkward going below stairs to say hello to his ex workmates.

Crossed so many boundaries Carson loked fit to implode!! grin

Chubfuddler Wed 19-Sep-12 09:46:26

Grantley? You're thinking To The Manor Born! They're the Crawleys.

Fiderer Wed 19-Sep-12 09:46:34

Err, the Granthams even. The Grantleys were an inferior family of poachers I believe. wink

Chubfuddler Wed 19-Sep-12 09:48:48

I loved how Carson looked furious yet completely correct in terms of etiquette when he stood up when pickle went downstairs. I like the way the servants are angered by the correct order being upset too.

Fiderer Wed 19-Sep-12 09:52:02

I think I may have been distracted by googling pictures of Sir Anthony.

I loved To The Manor Born and Mrs Pooh. Loved The Good Life too, not Tom and Barbara as much but Margot and Jerry. I still say to the FidBoys "Language, Jerry".

limitedperiodonly Wed 19-Sep-12 09:56:10

Could the constant references to the 'nephew's' freakish height turn out to be a clue to his parentage?

Or is it something Julian Fellowes will forget to follow up as he's done many times before?

Fiderer Wed 19-Sep-12 09:56:37

Carson looked apoplectic. Also re etiquette, I only realised after watching it that Thomas is now "Mr Barrow" as he's finally a valet.

Have a soft spot for Molesley too but doubt I'll be googling him.

Chubfuddler Wed 19-Sep-12 10:00:25

My Dh once made me a Christmas paper hat out of the daily mirror just so I could refuse to wear it. No one calls me Margot, oh no.

Chubfuddler Wed 19-Sep-12 10:01:54

Carson sounds utterly contemptuous when he says mr barrow doesn't he? It's marvellous stuff.

diddl Wed 19-Sep-12 11:03:45

The whole Sybil/Branson being invited-realistic or not?

I would have thought that if they were allowed back it would have been quite informal & not to anything like a pre wedding dinner.

That the staff would have to wait on him at dinner would be bad enough-without the (imo) ridiculous idea that he have a valet!

And that Lady Violet would be so cordial with him at the suit fitting thing.

Still, JF is supposed to know his stuff, isn´t he?
(and it´s not real)

Getting a bit too soapy, though?

Chubfuddler Wed 19-Sep-12 11:11:45

Have to allow for the eccentricities of the upper classes. Princess Margaret married a photographer so they made him an Earl.

diddl Wed 19-Sep-12 11:15:45

Yes, but I think he had had quite a privileged upbringing-hadn´t been in service for the family he married into, at any rategrin

Chubfuddler Wed 19-Sep-12 11:22:07

When Ann Boleyn was Queen her sister married the kings groom.

Mind you they were exiled from court so not the best example....

blisterpack Wed 19-Sep-12 11:56:53

I'm sure many of them married from well beneath. But whether they were invited back and made to feel like anyone else in the family is quite another thing...

squoosh Wed 19-Sep-12 12:09:27

There’s marrying beneath yourself and then there’s marrying the help. The most kind and understanding of 1920’s aristos may have stayed in touch with a daughter like Sybil, but invite her and her husband to come and stay for the weekend?

Chubfuddler Wed 19-Sep-12 12:10:52

A Saturday to Monday, squoosh please.

blisterpack Wed 19-Sep-12 12:12:22

Yes I said she married from WELL beneath. I too don't think it's realistic that they'd be invited back in that manner.

squoosh Wed 19-Sep-12 12:14:20

Even they did after Pickles outbursts there's little hope they'd be invited back for a rematch!

Did anyone else think his suit looked really scratchy?

squoosh Wed 19-Sep-12 12:14:34

Like it was made of nettles.

Chubfuddler Wed 19-Sep-12 12:18:01

He had a smarter off duty suit than that when he was the chauffeur. Should have pinched it.

limitedperiodonly Wed 19-Sep-12 12:37:32

There was an important observation in season 2 that Sir Richard had a soft shooting suit spun from the eyelashes of unborn lambs instead of a hairy tweed one like the aristos because he was a ghastly arriviste.

There's probably something about that in JF's Moleskine notebook.

margerykemp Wed 19-Sep-12 13:02:53

Why are they the Crawleys but their title is Grantham?

And why is he called Lord Grantham when he is an earl?

Were housemaids and valets allowed to marry?

squoosh Wed 19-Sep-12 13:04:03

Awww I miss Sir Richard. He'd have given Mary a rollicking good time on the wedding night. Matthew probably just shook her hand solemnly and then climbed into bed with Mamma.

Crawley is their family name -the title is Grantham.

I think you address them as Lord & Lady Grantham but the title is Earl & Countess Grantham.

Kate Middleton is The Duchess of Cambridge but will be addressed Princess Catherine or M'lady.

Oooh sorry no not Mlady.....Ma'am

MadamGazelleIsMyMum Wed 19-Sep-12 13:52:49

You would address the Earl and Countess as Lord/Lady Grantham or my Lord or my Lady.

Kate Middleton is HRH The Duchess of Cambridge and should technically be addressed as "your royal highness" at first, and "ma'am" subsequently (in the same way that you address the Queen as "Your Majesty" at first, and then "ma'am subsequently). She is not Princess Catherine, she is Princess William of Wales.

Of course she is ....<bows humbly> you are quite right MadamGazelle grin

MadamGazelleIsMyMum Wed 19-Sep-12 14:05:04

<graciously waves hand>

<knew reading hours of historical, royalist fiction would one day pay off>

MarthasHarbour Wed 19-Sep-12 14:31:58

squoosh shock

squoosh Wed 19-Sep-12 14:34:33

I don't mean Matthew had 'relations' with Mamma, more like she reads him a bedtime story and sings him a lullaby!

limitedperiodonly Wed 19-Sep-12 14:38:17

I can't remember what I was watching recently where someone instantly shone out as a Person Of Breeding even though she was going undercover as a humble servant because she addressed someone as my Lady rather than milady.

Or maybe she shone out as the servant of a Person Of Breeding, which is better than nothing.

ErikNorseman Wed 19-Sep-12 17:24:36

That was game of thrones! Arya and tywin lannister.

dementedma Wed 19-Sep-12 19:47:26

I rather like strallan. He's sweet

limitedperiodonly Wed 19-Sep-12 20:18:40

Thanks erik knew my TV obsession would come in handy.

Already added Iain Glen to my spreadsheet and Owen Teale from Stella.

God, that Sheridan Smith is getting a lot of work too.

diddl Thu 20-Sep-12 07:08:19

I quite like Strallan too.

I think he would dote on Edith-and she would love the attention-having never got any from her parents.

Odd that he was called up & Lord G not, though?

Fiderer Thu 20-Sep-12 08:16:07

Violet was all for Strallan ("Any port in a storm"?) and set up a meeting between Strallan and Edith at her house at Christmas. It was only when he couldn't shake Edith's hand and explained about being injured (with no hope of recovery, unlike Matthew's Tingle) that she turned against him as a suitor.

What was the significance of the shots of Daisy cycling up to the House? Seemed to imply she was cycling to work but surely all the servants lived in? Her extra 7 shillings a month wouldn't cover a room lodging somewhere, surely.

diddl Thu 20-Sep-12 08:32:28

I can´t make Violet out at all tbh.

Sometimes she just seems so nasty.

Would it be embarrassing to have her GD marry someone with an injured arm?hmm

And Matthew for a while wasn´t good enough-until the Pamuk incident iirc!

Surely anything for Edith would be better than what Sybil did!!

diddl yes sometimes she's a posionous old bag & she is a product of her era snobbishness & convention wise, but she makes me hoot!

Angelico Thu 20-Sep-12 09:33:42

Pickle hasn't been mentioned in a few posts and he is a delight for the senses grin Roll on Sunday, he is the only reason I watch it grin

PowerDresser Thu 20-Sep-12 10:31:05

Three sleeps to go.

limitedperiodonly Thu 20-Sep-12 12:59:50

sunday times magazine on 9 sept had an interview with Matthew. He tried very hard to be discreet but the interviewer drew the conclusion that this series of downton would be the last for him and therefore the show. Lady Violet is taking one day at a time, as a woman of her years probably does.

I liked the main pic of him even though he was wearing more make up than Julian Clary. The cover shot of him tried to convey a man in a dilemma but looked more like a man who'd put his hand in superglue before absent-mindedly sweeping it though his hair.

His shirt collar looked terribly grubby and his eyes looked very goaty, as always.

Seemed nice, though. I can't believe he's only 29.

diddl Thu 20-Sep-12 13:39:00

Well when M&M marry-what´s left?

Them at the helm at Downton?

SoupDragon Thu 20-Sep-12 13:48:31

Well when M&M marry-what´s left?

They could start a rap act or a chocolate business.

diddl Thu 20-Sep-12 14:13:32


MamaMary Thu 20-Sep-12 14:19:29

Cora really irritates me with her breathless voice and fixed wide-eyed expression. Her acting is so wooden. She could have had a wonderful role as the girls' mother but I just don't believe in her.

Clawdy Thu 20-Sep-12 15:38:38

He isn't nice. Saw him on the Review Show last year discussing the Booker shortlist. He tore most of the books to shreds in a supercilious and spiteful way,and came across as an thoroughly nasty little public schoolboy.I've disliked him ever since. angry

Clawdy Thu 20-Sep-12 15:39:39

Dan Stevens I mean!!sorry.

squoosh Thu 20-Sep-12 15:40:21

Cora is a bit wide eyed and breathy alright. I don't really count her as an actual character, she's just another bit of furniture more than anything else.

Fiderer Thu 20-Sep-12 16:03:44

grin at Soupy.

Cora's reaction to Lord G losing most of her money and therefore Downton too was laughable. Oh well, let's just have a really big party then.

She was more shocked at the thought of Violet losing her lady's maid, "Is there anything worse?" iirc.

MamaMary Thu 20-Sep-12 16:18:54

Yes, I didn't believe that reaction of Cora's either - does the woman actually have no feelings? Perhaps she's a waxwork or something.

dementedma Thu 20-Sep-12 22:55:43

Coras breathless voice gets on my tits .She is a really lousy actress of the keira knightly school of woodenness.

SloeFarSloeGood Thu 20-Sep-12 22:59:42

Cora's forehead is so full of botox there's no expression left.

newplan Thu 20-Sep-12 23:02:31

And she's a rock star as well dontchaknow

Animation Fri 21-Sep-12 06:46:32

Cora was a glass of water. Que sera sera - whatever will be will be. confused

It was a good man cry though from his lordship I thought.

Animation Fri 21-Sep-12 06:52:13

There's something not right with the guy Edith likes. She seems to be doing all the running and he looks over cautious to me as if he's got something to hide - despite giving her those teethy smiles

tribpot Fri 21-Sep-12 06:55:50

I've always assumed Strallan doesn't actually like Edith that way. Not totally consistent with the plot in S1 but that isn't always - <ahem> foremost in Fellowes' mind.

Re: Daisy and the bike, isn't it just another round of 1920s Bingo like the cocktails and hemlines?

Animation Fri 21-Sep-12 07:02:12

Yes - Sir Anthony Strallan - I don't think he likes her that way either - probably just being polite. I think he could be gay.

SoupDragon Fri 21-Sep-12 07:03:52

Strallen has had a lot of shit happen, he could just be wary of committing - 1st wife died, the fiasco with Edith, fiance died, injury to arm...

SoupDragon Fri 21-Sep-12 07:06:25

And he was a bit of a wet fish in S1 too.

Fiderer Fri 21-Sep-12 07:13:11

I think he's just very shy. He was very hurt by what Mary said as he believed it might be true. Then after his injury he got another bout of "She can do better-itis".

<staunch in Strallan's defence>

diddl Fri 21-Sep-12 07:24:30

I thought he did like Edith because he asked her to go to a concert(?) with him when Mary was expecting to be asked.

He was also going to propose, wasn´t he?

What fiancee, Soup?

Fiderer Fri 21-Sep-12 07:28:47

Yes, diddl, he was, till Mary sabotaged it to pay Edith back for writing to the Turkish Embassy about Mr Pamuk.

Which never made sense as she and Sybil would have been equally tainted by the scandal, surely.

diddl Fri 21-Sep-12 07:45:53

Yes, whole thing strange.

I think Edith was so pissed off at being overlooked though & everyone depending on the perfect Mary to make the best marriage that she didn´t think it through.

IIRC there was a conversation which she overheard with Robert & Cora-something about how wonderful Mary was, & Sybil with her causes & then something about "poor Edith" (dull, boring unattractive, unmarriageable).

I may have just made that up btw!

SoupDragon Fri 21-Sep-12 07:47:50

Strallen had another woman lined up after Edith didn't he? I thought they were engaged and she died. S2?

diddl Fri 21-Sep-12 07:50:20

Don´t remember that at all, Soup-that´s not to say that you´re not right, of course.

Hmm-wife died, fiancee died-Run, Edith, runblushgrin

SoupDragon Fri 21-Sep-12 07:50:45

Maybe I"m misremembering. It hought I remembered him telling Edith about a new woman.

SoupDragon Fri 21-Sep-12 07:52:19

I have an image of Strallen and Edith outside Downton, him telling her about some woman and Edith looking distraught-but-resigned in that "not showing it" way. I must have imagined it!

diddl Fri 21-Sep-12 07:55:02

I think that this is what she heard that led to her writing to the ambassador(?) with the truth about Pamuk.

"Robert: "Poor old Edith. We never seem to talk about her."
Cora: "I'm afraid Edith will be the one taking care of us in our old age."
Robert: "What a ghastly prospect!" "

Fiderer Fri 21-Sep-12 09:47:03

I have a mammoth amount of filing to do at the weekend, might put the DVDs of Downton on in the background and see if I spot Soup's woman, so to say.

diddl - yes, I thought so too about that exchange. Mary was quite venomous towards Edith and hearing her parents talk like that must have been so hurtful.
<reminds self it's not RL>

diddl Fri 21-Sep-12 10:54:19

Perhaps Edith also thought that if she was going to be an old maid it didn´t matter anyway about ruining her own non-existent prospects.

I just really like Edith-in the war, she learnt to drive, helped in the hospital.

Mary just swanned in & looked after Matthew!

I loved it when the Captain(?) toasted Edith as she was spoken of so well for the help she was giving.

I can see why Edith dislikes/is jealous of Mary, what I don´t really get is why Mary is/was so contemptuous of Edith.

For example when she wasn´t interested in Strallan, but after dinner made sure she got his attention, even though she had to ignore Matthew to do so.
and the idiot still married her purely to show Edith that men preferred her??

MarthasHarbour Fri 21-Sep-12 14:56:24

lets not forget Edith's dalliance with the local married farmer eh? Butter wouldnt melt with that one <hoiks bosom>

squoosh Fri 21-Sep-12 15:01:12

The 'snogging the framer up in the haybarn' storyline was so ridiculous.

squoosh Fri 21-Sep-12 15:01:33


She may have also snogged a framer, I'm not sure!

MarthasHarbour Fri 21-Sep-12 15:12:04

squoosh maybe you are referring to the picture framer she probably snogged or something... wink

she is still a 'fast piece' <hoiks other bosom>

Fiderer Fri 21-Sep-12 16:21:00

It was ridiculous, even allowing for the "war changes things" and "oh now she has a Useful Role to play" guff. The more so because she was snogging ol' puffy legs who nearly died till Saint Isobel saved him from the dropsy.

At least FidGirl insists it was him, I found it hard to tell under the puff and the striped pyjamas.

MamaMary Fri 21-Sep-12 16:22:27

I've a soft spot for Edith as I'm also the middle child.

limitedperiodonly Fri 21-Sep-12 19:55:18

Let's not be too harsh on Edith.

Eligible young men were drowning in their own lung fluids like flies in mustard gas.

In her position i could see myself shagging a framer in a hayloft with my eyes shut and Rudolph Valentino in my head.

Fiderer Fri 21-Sep-12 20:19:36

"I could see myself shagging a framer in a hayloft with my eyes shut and Rudolph Valentino in my head."

That'd be a great one for charades (or "the Game") at the Downton family Christmas get-together.

RuleBritannia Fri 21-Sep-12 20:25:45

Only two sleeps left now.

jammic Fri 21-Sep-12 20:37:22

Downton, it's like a big warm fluffy duvet that you don't want to leave

RuleBritannia Sat 22-Sep-12 11:16:42

It has some prickly bits sticking out though. Only one more sleep.

Animation Sat 22-Sep-12 11:24:16

... the quill from goose feathers sticking through.

Can anyone hear the theme tune, sing the theme tune!

RuleBritannia Sat 22-Sep-12 12:48:09

I recognise it so I know it's time to sit down and watch but I wouldn't really call it 'music'.

Angelico Sun 23-Sep-12 20:45:34

It's almost time... hope it's better this week and has fewer ad breaks!

Chubfuddler Sun 23-Sep-12 21:11:05

Am loving this so far this week. LOL at the fallen women needing a rest.

Come on Matthew. Harden up.

dementedma Sun 23-Sep-12 21:18:58

Ooh,poor Mrs hughes

MissMogwi Sun 23-Sep-12 21:31:54

FFS, Matthew is getting on my wick. Take the ££.

newplan Sun 23-Sep-12 21:35:37

All the men need to grow a set.

Matthew - stealing, my arse. Take the cash and certainly don't expect everyone to say 'oh my how noble, I'll pack my bags'

Strallen - no you can't still be friends with bobby the knobber if you're not good enough for his daughter.


wintera Sun 23-Sep-12 21:36:06

Christ - Matthew's changed! Remember in the first series when he didn't want anyone looking after him? Now he's all pissed off cos his tails have been ruined!

dapplegrey Sun 23-Sep-12 21:48:56

I'm surprised that Lord G considers Sir Anthony's arm to be a reason for him not to marry Edith as in 1920 there must have been many many men who'd been badly wounded in the war, lots of whom would have had worse disabilities.

dementedma Sun 23-Sep-12 21:52:18

Yeah,Edith makes a good point that all the young men are dead.I think strallan is a sweetie

MissMogwi Sun 23-Sep-12 21:58:10

grin at Violet's face!

Yes she'll make a lovely Lady Strallen!

MadamGazelleIsMyMum Sun 23-Sep-12 22:00:45

Does Mrs Hughes have a thing for Mr Carson?

newplan Sun 23-Sep-12 22:03:39

Of course. Think Emma Thompson and Anthony Hopkins.

Chubfuddler Sun 23-Sep-12 22:05:23

Mrs Hughes and Carson are the beating heart of this whole series.

Bates is going to get deaded in his cell isn't he?

Note he didn't deny to his cell mate that he is a murderer. He so killed her.

Why on earth do they insist on giving the entire plot away from the next week's episodes?! It's hardly worth watching each episode, you could just watch the 'next time' clip at the end!!

Chubfuddler Sun 23-Sep-12 22:07:34

That was annoying. Mind you the series trailer gave the whole thing away.

TooImmatureTurtleDoves Sun 23-Sep-12 22:09:14

angry that they already told us it was cancer - I wanted to find out myself, thanks!

So, who thinks
a) Bates really is a murderer and Anna is going to slowly realise and have her heart broken? sad
b) Matthew is not going to keep the money and save Downton (but something else is going to happen to save it) and he and Mary are going to have a huge fight/split up/other dramatic happening?

BurlingtonBertieFromBow Sun 23-Sep-12 22:11:43

Even if Bates is a murderer, Vera was evil so it doesn't tarnish him for me

Edith and Strallan are as drippy as each other, but I suppose it's quite sweet really.

My favourite quote of the episode: 'Sorry, I thought you were a waiter'

Chubfuddler Sun 23-Sep-12 22:12:12

They won't split up. I think Mary will surprise herself and find she loves Matthew even more than Downton ( she actually realised that at the end of series 1)

Northernlurkerisbackatwork Sun 23-Sep-12 22:16:32

I loved the fact that the oven breaking caused more consternation than the entire War!

Edith's wedding looks sweet. I hope Sir Anthony proves everybody wrong by fathering about 15 fine healthy sons and living to be 106.

dementedma Sun 23-Sep-12 22:17:18

Matthew will save Downton, he's spineless so will give in to Mary.
This series needs a dark character,other than bitching footmen. Liked the little sinister bit with bates, added a touch of spice

outtolunchagain Sun 23-Sep-12 22:44:28

Matthew will buy Downton so that they own it themselves thus freeing it from the old Crawley dynasty and allowing him to Timothy how he wants.
Poor housekeeper lady ( can't remember name) imagine having to wait 2 months sad

outtolunchagain Sun 23-Sep-12 22:45:16

Blasted iPhone meant to say "to run it " not Timothyblush

Rotter Sun 23-Sep-12 22:48:17

I like the idea of Matthew timothying.

EugenesAxe Sun 23-Sep-12 22:56:29

I totally agree BurlingtonBertie - a Maggie classic!

And dementedma about Bates. I'm actually a bit queasy with worry thinking about that, although DH said it'll just be to keep up a murderer front with the nasty piece of work cell mate.

Anyone watched 'North & South' with Bates in it? And more importantly Guy of Gisbourne/ Spooks bloke (completely forgotten his name). Slightly annoying but still very enjoyable period drama...

ProphetOfDoom Sun 23-Sep-12 23:02:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ProphetOfDoom Sun 23-Sep-12 23:03:12

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BurlingtonBertieFromBow Sun 23-Sep-12 23:03:39

What about Carson's obsession with Mary? Something Not Quite Right or am I just a suspicious wotsit?

BBFB- a suspicious wotsit grin

Mr Carson has always had a soft spot for Lady Mary, she's his favourite of the daughters, a sort of below stairs uncle!

Anyone else catch Bates cellmate passing things to/from the prison officer? Is he being paid to watch him or just the resident nark ?

Moln Sun 23-Sep-12 23:37:00

drugs? Dunno really.

Might have to turn off before the next week summary nexr week. It's silly really, don't think it's needed even if it didn't give stuff away.

Wonder what the ex-maid wh had the baby has that she wants to say?

Don't think Bates is a mirderer i say it was to keep cell mate on his toes. They will NOT break Anna's heart.

ProudNeathGirl Sun 23-Sep-12 23:37:09

Did Bates just admit he murdered his wife at the end of that episode?????

BurlingtonBertieFromBow Sun 23-Sep-12 23:39:19

Nah I don't think he actually did it (although she sort of had it coming). He just said it to keep up his street cred while 'inside'

I am yet to be convinced re Carson

Born2bemild Sun 23-Sep-12 23:51:39

Only just found thread, but you lot are making me laugh. I keep wanting to call Strallen, "Surallen" and have him shout " you're fired". Like the way the plot is rocketing along and not dragging things out. Btw, if you haven't watched " North and South" you should. 'Tis on Netflix.

confuddledDOTcom Mon 24-Sep-12 00:25:40

I've just seen this thread too, marking my place in case I get chance to catch up!

squoosh Mon 24-Sep-12 02:31:40

Have missed this evening's episode!

Hopefully Bates has been proven to have been a wife killer

And hopefully Matthew is dead...... (a girl can dream)

Thye need a dashing above stairs character, they're all so bloody vanilla.

<hops off to the iplayer to sneer at porridgey Matthew>

SoupDragon Mon 24-Sep-12 06:50:56

I thought that ex-maid-with-a-baby is pregnant again. She was resting her hands on her abdomen.

SoupDragon Mon 24-Sep-12 06:51:58

I think Bates is a murderer. He is just too placid otherwise - no spark.

Northernlurkerisbackatwork Mon 24-Sep-12 07:48:38

Oh yes Ethel the naughty prostitute former housemaid looked to be In Trouble again. Still will give Isobel something to do providing that Fallen Woman with a rest..........

EugenesAxe Mon 24-Sep-12 07:49:42

SoupDragon - laughing at the idea of 'no spark = closet murderer'. I expect you are right about the maid... the plot hinters in Downton have always been as subtle as a punch in the face.

Is it me or has Matthew 'spread' a bit this series? Jacket-gate allowed a lot of gawking at his waist. squoosh - porridgey is exactly it.

Richard Armitage - thanks. I read the book recently and for once thought the miniseries was better. Although the book was still good.

SoupDragon Mon 24-Sep-12 07:54:37

smile He just has no life almost as if he is suppressing all emotion. I can't remember if he has shown any anger ever... nothing above mild annoyance thatI can think of. Even Carson gets angry.

herethereeverywhere Mon 24-Sep-12 08:08:32

None of the characters seem likeable anymore - apart from Violet if course smile
Mathew is a bigger snob than Lord G. Lord G is just a pompous idiot who couldn't manage his money and I much preferred Mary when she was bitchy.

Fiderer Mon 24-Sep-12 08:40:11

That was a cracking good episode. I love Downton for being wonderful tosh and that was at the top of my Toshometer™

So glad they didn't drag out the Edith and Strallan story and that Edith won through.

Matthew's a total arse about the money, knowing what Downton means to the family. Why doesn't Mary ask Isobel to knock sense into him? She gave him a "stop using the memory of that dear sweet girl" speech before. Or someone get out the ouija board again. "M.a.t.t.h.e.w.s.a.v.e.d.o.w.n.t.o.n."

Also knowing how important Downton is to Mary, all that "Kiss me before I get cross" stuff was more than tosh, that was bilge.

Mrs Hughes though shock Not tosh at all. She's one of my favourites.

Shirley MacRich seemed to act mostly with her eyes. Did like Edith going to her, though.

MarthasHarbour Mon 24-Sep-12 08:57:32

did anybody else cringe when Lord 6 said to Matthew 'How was the honeymoon' and Matthew raised his eyebrows with a wink and said 'my eyes have been opened'

bleurgh..... <vomits>

EugenesAxe Mon 24-Sep-12 08:58:54

Fiderer - a generally genius post, but TM (are you a computer programmer?!) and the ouija board are the best bits.

I just loved the fact that all the drama seemed to eminate from totally banal sources... clothing and ovens.

diddl Mon 24-Sep-12 08:59:12

was that a "bleurgh" to Lord G´s question or Matthew´s answer?

Fiderer Mon 24-Sep-12 08:59:16

And also, while I'm on my high horse (side-saddle) Matthew should consider all the staff - Carson, Anna, Mrs Patmore etc. may well be taken on in a new smaller house but what about the bootboys and estate workers heh? New money buying the Downton Estate will be downsizing as soon as you can say "Times change" or if you're Carson "Sodom and Gomorrah".

SoupDragon Mon 24-Sep-12 09:00:48

Yes! More a WTF moment - would a son-in-law really say that to his wife's father?!

I still don't understand why the family were so against Strallen. Surely they would have been delighted to marry off the middle daughter. Especially with Sybil marrying Pickles.

Fiderer Mon 24-Sep-12 09:06:42

x-post in my haughtiness re Matthew.

Eugene blush The ™ I learned here on MN, if that's what you meant, am not techy enough to know if my Toshometer™ is a recognised programming term but I suspect not grin

Martha that comment about the honeymoon opening Matthew's eyes was indeed vile and bleurgh. As if he'd say that at all and to her father and as a greeting.

Pity Mary doesn't say "No more eye-openings for you, darling, if you don't stump up the dosh"

Chubfuddler Mon 24-Sep-12 09:55:55

Yes there is NO WAY Matthew would have said that to his wife's father. To pickle maybe.

I love Strallen and Edith. I accidentally saw pictures of their wedding about a year ago and she's a lovely bride. I did get a lump in my throat when lord g said my darling you should be with someone younger and she said all the young men of my age are dead.

SoupDragon Mon 24-Sep-12 10:08:57

She fell for him before the war though, which is nice. She's not marrying him just because there are no young men.

LadyHarrietdeSpook Mon 24-Sep-12 10:13:20

Funny that Matthew and Mary ended up together as part of the great master plan...but the way that Downton would have been able to 'hold itself together' after Lord 6's financial mishaps would be through Lavinia's money and - almost assuredly - Sir Richard's too.

Ho hum.

Loved Mary and Violet's 'plot' to soak Martha of her cash. But normally Violet would have come up with something a bit more clever. Matthew wants to brush up his CV.

Strallen wasn't too old for Mary, how come he's not right for Edith? The age thing is being played as much as the arm.

Poor Edith, but it seems like it will come good in the end.

diddl Mon 24-Sep-12 10:23:02

"Loved Mary and Violet's 'plot' to soak Martha of her cash."

Yes-they just seem to expect people to hand over their cash to save Downtonhmm

(En)titled much?grin

Chubfuddler Mon 24-Sep-12 10:25:42

It was a rubbish plot. If they were trying to marry Edith to an American plot device cousin that would have more legs.

Is the American deuce ex machina uncle married? If so he may have a convenient son for Sybil when pickle gets deaded. Which he is clearly going to.

SoupDragon Mon 24-Sep-12 10:27:12

I assumed the uncle was gay. They seemed to be rather evasive about him.

LadyHarrietdeSpook Mon 24-Sep-12 10:57:26

soup: me too.

herethereeverywhere Mon 24-Sep-12 11:27:54

I did love Cora saying that she thought that her family had put enough money into to Downton already. Too right!

Also 'better a doctor than an undertaker' - dark humour from Mrs Packmore ! (sp?)

limitedperiodonly Mon 24-Sep-12 11:28:01

I kept thinking Strallen was gay. But that would probably be all right.

Don't understand why Lord 6 and Lady Violet object to his age. There's no one else to take Edith off their hands and she would just be a burden on the dwindling Crawley fortunes. Posh folk are nothing if not practical.

Love the O'Brien v Thomas death match. My money's on O'Brien.

Thomas's hand seems a lot better these days. And that bloody dog is immortal.

Chubfuddler Mon 24-Sep-12 11:29:38

That's his second dog. The one at the beginning of series one was called Isis I think and that's called Pharoah.

limitedperiodonly Mon 24-Sep-12 11:45:39

Oh, okay chub. I remember now. You're right with the names.

I hope nothing else in Lord 6's wardrobe goes walkies. He's shown his flabby chest peeking out of his dressing gown in every series.

stillfeel18inside Mon 24-Sep-12 11:46:55

Is anyone else wondering how come Lavinia's dad suddenly has an enormous fortune to leave? I thought she was always seen as a bit beneath Downton (by Mary, Violet etc) because she was just the daughter of a middle class lawyer or some such profession? I don't ever remember her being an heiress, but maybe she was?

diddl Mon 24-Sep-12 11:51:22

I guess he made some wise investments-unlike Lord G.

But odd as Lavinia stole something to implicate her uncle so that Sir R would write off a debt owed by her father?

limitedperiodonly Mon 24-Sep-12 11:51:44

Good point stillfeel18inside.

Dan Stevens' jowls are making me feel queasy. In a stiff wind they must make a sound like Rolf Harris's wobble board.

Can't remember which poster said he was a bit tubby but yes, he is.

<body fascist and proud>

Chubfuddler Mon 24-Sep-12 11:53:03

I did wonder how her dad can possibly have enough to leave to bail out Downton. That does seem odd. Cora was v funny though - words to effect we are going to sell and buy a smaller estate, we aren't going down the mines.

I wish violet would tell Matthew his conscience is terribly middle class or something.

limitedperiodonly Mon 24-Sep-12 11:54:50

oh yes diddl.

Coronation Street used to have avid fans on retainer to consult on previous plots or things that would be completely out of character.

They don't make telly like in the olden days.

EugenesAxe Mon 24-Sep-12 12:37:37

DH gave a typically dour analysis of the money situation: 'Well, if it's 1930 they would be about to lose any money invested in stocks and shares anyway.'

Chubfuddler Mon 24-Sep-12 12:42:17

And, why aren't they doing what all the other Aristos did between the wars and sell the London house? They were all sold off more or less around this time, it was why the London season went into decline.

SoupDragon Mon 24-Sep-12 12:43:15

And they still own "half the village"... so sell that!

Chubfuddler Mon 24-Sep-12 12:54:09

Lord Fattie said to his lawyer last week the estate and the house have to stay together in his mind, otherwise there's no point to the whole thing. He's wrong though, he's wrong about so many things. But I'm not sure whether JF thinks so.

limitedperiodonly Mon 24-Sep-12 13:00:48

Eugene tell DH it's only 1920 - still time for plenty of cocktails and dancing the blackbottom.

And as war looms a smart man would invest in armaments.

<realises Lord 6 is not a smart man>

diddl Mon 24-Sep-12 13:53:00

Something I don´t quite get thoughblush

Is/was the estate is entailed to Robert?

If so, is any of it his to sell??

When did entailing end?


limitedperiodonly Mon 24-Sep-12 13:56:13

What's entailment diddl?

I did look it up but couldn't understand it.

diddl Mon 24-Sep-12 14:05:38

Well I´m not entirely sure.

The current occupant can´t leave it to who they want, it must go to the next male heir, I think-so that it stays in the family & can´t be broken up, I guess.

Chubfuddler Mon 24-Sep-12 14:12:43

Law of Property Act 1925 prevented the creation of new entails. The estate can be sold if its going to go bust, it just can't be left to anyone but the male heir.

diddl Mon 24-Sep-12 14:17:34


I guessed well there!

It makes sense of course that they can sell.

Would the next heir still get the title?

dapplegrey Mon 24-Sep-12 14:17:36

Re selling off houses in the village, Lord G probably wouldn't do that because firstly they would be lived in by employees who would then be homeless and secondly in those days workers' cottages were worth very little. On a large estate near where we live, even in the 1970s cottages were sold because it cost more to repair them and put in modern kitchens (even pretty basic kitchens) than the cottages were worth.
Nowadays of course these cottages are worth hundreds of thousands.

diddl Mon 24-Sep-12 14:20:00

These big estates-how was enough money ever made to keep them running?

I suppose some was through the land that was also owned?

limitedperiodonly Mon 24-Sep-12 14:26:17

So as it's before the Act, could Lord 6 sell or would he have to leave it to Matthew, who presumably wouldn't want it because he couldn't afford the upkeep?

Or would Matthew be forced to accept the inheritance he can't bear to take because he's bound by the will to accept Downton and go bankrupt?

I'm so glad my family has always been poor. Vast wealth seems such a headache grin

BurlingtonBertieFromBow Mon 24-Sep-12 14:27:13

Some big estates and aristocrats did extremely well because coal, tin, copper etc was found on their land. Worth a fortune. And then there were the ones who owned chunks of London - the duke of Westminster, e.g., owns most of Mayfair/Belgravia which is why he is so minted.

SuperB0F Mon 24-Sep-12 14:31:24

The land used to make money when agriculture was bigger, but I've read that by the turn of the century the estate owners were increasingly needing to marry for money to raise the necessary cash to keep them going.

I've just looked up entails, and it seems that they were designed to stop an heir generally pissing the estate away with gambling debts etc. An entail can only be broken by a new legal agreement between the current owner and the next heir. So if I've understood that correctly, Matthew has to agree if Downton is to be sold.

limitedperiodonly Mon 24-Sep-12 14:34:18

So we know Highclere is in Berkshire so there'd be no chance of making money for about 65 years until yuppie country house hotels handy for London got going.

But Downton is near York. Any interesting mineral deposits that way? Never did geology at school.

They were talking about tin last night. They could despatch a character down a hidden mineshaft while sending him out to sniff the meat like Alfred did.

diddl Mon 24-Sep-12 14:38:39

"they were designed to stop an heir generally pissing the estate away with gambling debts etc."

I´ve read that somewhere as well, but I don´t really "get" it.

It surely relies on someone actually giving a damn about being able to pass anything on?

SuperB0F Mon 24-Sep-12 15:12:30

Legally, an entailed estate could not be sold. And for an entail to be created, it just meant that somebody in the past felt that the pride and prestige of the land and aristocratic title should be preserved in perpetuity for their descendants. That's how I understood it, anyway.

LadyHarrietdeSpook Mon 24-Sep-12 15:38:45

They can sell the estate/break the entail if 'it's in peril' accd to the first series.

COME ON LADIES - remember?! matthew and mary fireside chat after violet payed matthew a visit in his office.

SuperB0F Mon 24-Sep-12 15:48:56

Excellent memory you have grin

Mollydoggerson Mon 24-Sep-12 16:00:01

If you analyse Mary, she is just a horrible, horrible person. A total snob but yet grabby as hell, wants all the US money but all the English snobbery. Total hypocrit and think the world revoles around her. Mary wants Granny warbucks to stump up the cash in order to allow herself and other granny to ponce around the place being complete biatches to sister Edie.

Mary could have married for love or money and she chose love, so she needs to now suck up the no money situation.

BTW does anyone else think there really is no chemistry between her and Matthew, his personality would have been more suited to Edith.

Moving on to Edith, she actually does seem excited about drippy Strallan, and they share their love of cars. They are a perfect couple, she is a middle ager trapped in a younger woman's body. She'll be up the duff in no time. I think her character is much more genuine than Mary's and therefore I like her more.

Lord and Lady 6 just coast along on other people's coat tails as well. How do they fill their days??

diddl Mon 24-Sep-12 16:05:24

Oh Molly-how I agree.

I also loathe how they all look down on Martha-but would happily live off her!

I just can´t get what they all think is so wonderful about Mary that she would have her pick of men!

SoupDragon Mon 24-Sep-12 16:13:49

Mary could have married for love or money and she chose love

That's not strictly true given she agreed to marry the heir to the whole Downton estate before finding out about the financial problems.

BurlingtonBertieFromBow Mon 24-Sep-12 16:45:42

I don't think Mary is awful - the character is probably just a very accurate reflection of someone of her age, class and time.

When she was dithering over whether to marry Matthew when Cora got pregnant, in case it was a boy, everyone said she was awful but I had sympathy. If you think about it, as an Edwardian woman, the man you married was your entire LIFE. You basically took on their career, their financial and social circumstances, their limitations, and you couldn't change it at all yourself. So if she had married Matthew and the baby was a boy, her life would have completely changed and she would never have been able to get her old life back. And as an intelligent and independent-minded woman that would have made her feel totally desperate.

diddl Mon 24-Sep-12 17:15:30

Yes, life as a solicitor´s wife would have been intolerable.

BurlingtonBertieFromBow Mon 24-Sep-12 17:22:00

Ah come on though, in comparison with what she was used to. And she would have been brought up to think marrying for love was stupid and irresponsible (which was what her aunt repeatedly told her).

diddl Mon 24-Sep-12 17:23:14

Yes, but if she had loved him, it wouldn´t have mattered to her, would it?

wintera Mon 24-Sep-12 18:12:02

Has Edith ever found out that it was Mary who put the spanner in the works the last time Strallan was after marrying her? I missed some eps of series two you see so am not sure if it has been revealed.

BurlingtonBertieFromBow Mon 24-Sep-12 18:18:08

Well I don't think I'd give up everything to marry someone even if I did love them

wintera - I think she did. That was why she told the Turkish embassy about the dead guy in the bed

diddl Mon 24-Sep-12 18:29:42

I think Edith told the Embassy about Pamuk first & that´s why Mary did it.

Think that´s why I dislike Mary so much.

I don´t agree with what Edith did, although I get why-but at the end of the day, she didn´t tell an outright lie like Mary did to Strallan.

I hope that Edith´s happy & M&M are miserable & Downton crashes around them!

Chubfuddler Mon 24-Sep-12 19:29:16

Edith does know. She found out and mentioned it to Strallen during the Christmas special, and he realised she had liked him all along v

wintera Mon 24-Sep-12 19:50:07

Yeah the Turkish embassy thing had already happened and that's why Mary scuppered things for Edith and Strallan, in revenge. I missed the Christmas special as well so thanks for clarifying that it had been revealed. I missed a lot of series two as I watched a few eps and I really thought the quality had dropped. I loved the first series however, so decided to come back for series three and am enjoying it so far.

diddl Mon 24-Sep-12 20:12:54

Strallan´s house looked fantastic.

And I love the coat that Edith was wearing when she went to visit him at the beginning.

But really the idea of a dinner party to show what Downton should be used for??!!

Yup, that´ll make someone give their dosh away!!

Look how useful this building is-parties for the idle rich!!

´Tis getting silly really isn´t it?

Chubfuddler Mon 24-Sep-12 20:18:52

Isn't that the point though - they are being flung head first into the modern world and they haven't got a Scooby how to cope.

SlightlySuperiorPeasant Mon 24-Sep-12 22:07:47

I said I wouldn't watch this series but DH insisted wink So...

1) 'Fashionably late?' - Sir A isn't going to make it to the wedding. I reckon he's too much of a gentleman to dump Edith at the altar so my money is on him dying on the morning if the wedding.

2) Wild guess that Sybil dies in childbirth.

3) Matty will take the money after being appealed to by the servants.

LadyHarrietdeSpook Mon 24-Sep-12 23:15:09

Trying to watch it again. Sodding virgin media keeps cutting out. I love it but it is one crazy show. How us it it can be so compelling but also so out there in terms of plot, characterisation.

Do u know who else has lost it? Daisy. Going postal as they say stateside. Those EYES. Expecting a scene from Carrie soon.

LadyHarrietdeSpook Mon 24-Sep-12 23:31:06

Also Edith shoukdnt be made to beg for sir a. She does sound exasperated in parts and borderline stalker.

time for alternate script.

"I want to know if we're serious," says violet.

"About wot?" Says Mary.

"Pickpocketing yer other granny...or should we just cut to the chase and mug her outright? You shove some offal on her gob-get Carson on the case- l'll hit her over the head with my walking stick.job done."

On phone is best I can do. BoF can do better.

Fiderer Tue 25-Sep-12 10:25:22

I just watched it again, waiting in for the chimney sweep made me come over all 1920s. And wonder how anyone managed to clean the chimneys at DA.

Did they really have just the one oven? For the dinners they hosted, seems a little unlikely in a house that size. Loved Violet saying, "If only we had some coal. Or gravel. Or tin." And her sucking unconvincingly up to BeadyEyesMacRich.

Whoever mentioned Matthew "live more simply" was right. Why does a provincial solicitor have a tailor in London? What's wrong with York? Is he afraid his tails would be corrupted by fallen women falling over them?

Ah, so many wonderful nits to pick grin

newplan Tue 25-Sep-12 10:40:43

Given Downton is in Yorkshire I'd put money on there being some 'jaws of defeat' mineral discovery.

Obviously Crawleys will be spared Wall Street Crash as he'd already got his fingers burnt in stock market but McLoaded will be destitute. wink

Chubfuddler Tue 25-Sep-12 10:43:35

Is Matthew actually practising law still? I thought he was now bone idle running the estate with lord fatty bumbum.

Fiderer Tue 25-Sep-12 10:45:07

Chub He mentioned to Mary catching up on paperwork before going back to the office. Can't be the Estate Office - if they even have one, Lord Chesty always seems to work in the library.

diddl Tue 25-Sep-12 10:56:36

"Why does a provincial solicitor have a tailor in London?"

Because he uses Lord G´s?

So stupid though-he knows FIL is in trouble financially-so sends a jacket to London-as you dohmm

He´s fitted right in, hasn´t he?

MamaMary Tue 25-Sep-12 11:08:26

Oh, it's less and less believable for me (not that it ever was!)

Mary's is less and less believable now she's not simply a bitch. What interests does she have? What occupations? We see her read a fashion magazine. What else? Visit her granny. She's happy to live with her parents. We don't see her doing all the fun things the gentry did - going hunting (there was one hunting scene last series), visiting her friends, going to London and living the high life at parties etc. Instead we see her returning to Downton after her honeymoon to complete dullness. It doesn't seem very 1920s to me.

I agree with the poster who said that in reality the family would have been delighted to see Edith married off to a rich gentleman. Lord G has no motive to try and split them up - and it really didn't ring true to me confused

Have to say I'm liking Shirley more and more as she seems to be the only one speaking any sense. It'll go down well in America as it's presenting them as far more progressive and democratic than the stuffy old Brits. Perhaps Julian playing up to his more lucrative audience?

diddl Tue 25-Sep-12 11:21:07

So next weeks ep-they all move somewhere else??!!

Stuff rambling, dingy Downton-I want lady Violet´s place.


Jusfloatingby Tue 25-Sep-12 13:21:02

Mary does seem to lead a rather pointless existence. If the series began before the war and it is now 1920 she must be pushing thirty by now. And what has she done with herself apart from hanging around Downton being a cow to Edith and moaning about money. Even during the war it was Sybil and Edith who really got stuck into the effort. Mary just drifted around the hospital, occasionally rolling a bandage.

Diddl 'Tis rather lovely is't it? grin

diddl Wed 26-Sep-12 07:03:26
Fiderer Wed 26-Sep-12 07:33:03

diddl I was just going to post that picture grin I'd move in like a shot.

diddl Wed 26-Sep-12 07:36:08

Can´t decide which I prefer.

Perhaps I could have both for the price of Downtongrin

Fiderer Wed 26-Sep-12 07:43:09

I'm having Strallan's house as long as he's in it. I've gone totally and unusually soppy over him.

"You have given me my life back" - <sob>

<elbows Edith out of the way>

Well, he is more my age than hers.

limitedperiodonly Wed 26-Sep-12 07:45:41

He can't rattle around that house on his own, knocking things over with his bad arm.

He needs Lady Edith and lots of mini-Strallens.

diddl Wed 26-Sep-12 07:48:29

I´d have him as well-the house would be a bonus!

Fiderer Wed 26-Sep-12 08:20:00

Mini-Strallans, yes, can see Lady Violet commenting on Edith producing mini-Strallans and how fortunate it is that some bits of him work. "He's not entirely crippled then" <haughty sniff>

diddl that's a dolls house isn't it??!

<going all mushy at the thought of lots of Mini-Strallens> awwwwwwww.

I think my fav is Mathews Ma's house....any pics of that one? grin

<lazy cah emoticon>

Fiderer Wed 26-Sep-12 09:28:19

Crawley House

Pretty, isn't it?

Chubfuddler Wed 26-Sep-12 09:37:27

Matthews mothers drawing room is an absolutely stunning blue. I love it.

SoupDragon Wed 26-Sep-12 09:38:17

I prefer Violet's house - far more manageable.

Provided the ugly pig at the bottom of the picture gallery doesn't come with it!

SoupDragon Wed 26-Sep-12 09:38:55

Prefer it to Strallens' that is. I'd settle for the Crawley house smile

poozlepants Wed 26-Sep-12 09:52:14

I have just finished watching the first 2 of this series and the whole thing is totally preposterous.
My bet is on Bransom getting killed in the Irish war of Independence now that he has been received into the bosom of the family. Lady Sybil then gets to come home with baby and shag about a bit- presumably with lots of very unsuitable men. Mary is an arse who will get her comeuppance by only producing girls or Matthews bits won't have recovered from their shell shock and there'll be no children at all leading Mary to having it away with one of the servants in attempt to get up the duff.(Hopefully not Carson).
Edith will piss her off by having at least 5 boys in 5 minutes.

I haven't read the whole of the thread so sorry if it has been mentioned but was that Jane woman who turned up at Mrs Crawleys women's shelter thingy the one who had it off with Lord Grantham. She couldn't be pregnant could she? I didn't think they did anything.

diddl Wed 26-Sep-12 10:35:42

Ooh-The one that Isobel is in-lovely as well.

Always thought that it was called Grantham House?

diddl Wed 26-Sep-12 10:37:34

"She couldn't be pregnant could she? I didn't think they did anything."

It was the maid who slept with the injured Captain.

He died & she gave their son to his parents, I think.


Wasn´t the Captain´s father played by Phyllis Logan´s husband?

Fiderer Wed 26-Sep-12 10:42:20

Ethel didn't give her son up, she's now a "fallen woman" in York to support him, she's the one who came into Isobel's shelter.

Jane was the maid who snogged Lord 6. He called it all off and having helped get her son into Ripley Grammar School, gave her the card of his "business man" to help give him a start in life.

diddl Wed 26-Sep-12 10:47:30

Yes, your right, she kept him.

My post wasn´t clear at all, was it.

The maid Isobel saw wasn´t Jane who Lord G was interested in, it was Ethel.

diddl Wed 26-Sep-12 10:59:53

"your right"

Oh the shameblush

You´re right, of course.

poozlepants Wed 26-Sep-12 11:57:39

Ooh larks I haven't been paying attention at all. I watched the last series as a box set over a weekend and I obviously wasn't concentrating enough. Could've been the bottle of knock off Baileys from Aldi that I was given with the DVD.

margerykemp Wed 26-Sep-12 14:00:46

If Mary and Matthew dont have any sons who will Downton go to?

diddl Wed 26-Sep-12 14:05:21

Another random cousin?

Chubfuddler Wed 26-Sep-12 14:06:13

Eldest son of Edith if she has one. Sybil's son if not.

diddl Wed 26-Sep-12 14:08:21

Why would it go to them as they wouldn´t be Crawleys?

Thanks Federer sigh - agree with Chub lovely blue room.

Only surviving heirs diddl as Mathew was the only male of the previous generation & it wouldn't be entailed as it had been in previous generations I think.

diddl Wed 26-Sep-12 14:26:50

Hadn´t realised that he was the only male of that generation.

I know that no new entails could be started-but did that also mean that existing ones stopped?

What about if M&M had daughters?

CaroleService Wed 26-Sep-12 14:51:44

I reckon Strallen won't make it to the wedding either. Edith will go back to the States with Granny I think.

As for losing Downton, is it just me or did a huge farking 'Van Dyck' type picture appear in the dining room last week where no Van Dyck had hung before? I reckon they'll flog that, and the crisis will be over faster than even WW1 was in DA la-la land.

diddl Wed 26-Sep-12 15:21:51

Oh I hope not-don´t want Edith to leave.

Then it´s just the bores left.

Although bit odd to have 2 whole series about M&M-didn´t Sybil marry in S2?-& then to have all daughters married at the beginning of S3.

Hope she´s not the one who diessad

Mollydoggerson Wed 26-Sep-12 16:21:14

I think you might be right about that portrait, defo new addition.

Who got Edith up the duff secoond time around?

My money is on Thomas.

Fiderer Wed 26-Sep-12 16:45:52

Ooh, clever spotting of the portrait. I assume Van Dyck is not like this?

diddl Wed 26-Sep-12 16:52:23

"Who got Edith up the duff second time around?"

Isn´t she now working as a prostitute?

In which case it could be anyone & not at all connected to Downton?

Isn´t Thomas gay?

Fiderer Wed 26-Sep-12 17:01:01

Ethel = was maid at DA, up-duffed once by Major Cad and now stomach-stroking-poss-up-duffed by being fallen in York.

Edith = is daughter no.2 at DA, soon to wed the lovely Sir Anthony Strallan and hopefully be carrying Little Strallans.

limitedperiodonly Wed 26-Sep-12 17:06:13

I've been in that room for real last summer. It was there then. Can't remember whether I've seen it in the show. I've got a feeling it was in the episode where Sybil sobs about just about every boy she's ever known being killed and Lord 6 looked perplexed/as if he had painful trapped wind. Lady 6 tried to move her eyebrows sympathetically but failed.

SoupDragon Wed 26-Sep-12 18:34:38

Isn´t Thomas gay?

That just seems to have been forgotten about.

Fiderer Wed 26-Sep-12 18:40:08

Not according to the series 2 trailers <cough>

SuperB0F Wed 26-Sep-12 19:12:59

Thomas fell in love with one of the soldier patients for about ten minutes last series, I think.

Fiderer Wed 26-Sep-12 19:22:07

Sorry, I meant in Series 3 - wasn't there sobbing and shirt-removing being ogled in the trailer?

SuperB0F Wed 26-Sep-12 19:24:01

Ooh, I missed that. I will look out for it.

diddl Wed 26-Sep-12 19:26:02

I missed it as well.

Any links?

ErikNorseman Wed 26-Sep-12 19:28:47

Thomas is def gay and that's a major character arc for him in series 3 apparently, watching him try to deal with that fact

ErikNorseman Wed 26-Sep-12 19:33:22
Fiderer Wed 26-Sep-12 19:34:43
diddl Wed 26-Sep-12 19:35:40

Maybe he´s lusting after the new footman

He had been seeing a Duke or someone hadn´t he?

Who left him at Downton & burnt letters which were proof?

Also Mrs Patmore said to Daisy that she was wasting her time.

Can´t remember the words, but meaning that he didn´t like women.

Would he really have been so obvious?

diddl Wed 26-Sep-12 19:37:05

Oh-there´s a bit of a spoiler in that link-sorry.

Fiderer Thu 27-Sep-12 07:35:15

Don't be sorry, diddl. I knew from the trailer that there was lusting between Thomas and a new male servant but the clip is so short I couldn't see his face.

Then along comes Alfred the Tall and I thought, heh? No way could there be anything lustful (even if one-sided) there. Could not see Thomas in tears over AtheT. But the new one, oh yes, sparks indeed.

If they can afford to hire a new footman then all must be well with the DA coffers. Perhaps they sold the Van Dyck or found coal.

diddl Thu 27-Sep-12 07:38:20

It´s all very bitty, isn´t it?

No money, but hiring staff?

I thought that they "downsized"-but then they wouldn´t need more staff, would they?

What´s "Downton Place" that we saw last week, then?

SoupDragon Thu 27-Sep-12 07:59:33

New footman and a new scullery maid.

Fiderer Thu 27-Sep-12 08:03:36

I assume some local pile they were invited to and by "coincidence" (aka DA script implausibility) it was going to be sold?

Daftest and bittiest to me is that Matthew is supposed to love Mary "so very very much" and Lord G welcomes him as his son. Yet he's all "taking the money would be a "criminal act" so he's prepared to let them lose their home with all that entails (pun intended). Ffs, all the self-flagellating is wearing a bit thin.

I hope he overhears the servants distraught about losing their jobs and has a Change of Heart. He was all dismissive of Molesley being his valet till Lord G put him straight about how much it meant to Molesley - the lower classes loving to serve wink

diddl Thu 27-Sep-12 08:22:27

I don´t have a problem with Matthew not handing over his dosh tbh-Lord G has shown himself to be crap with money.

He needs to hold on to something to when he takes over!

But is that the idea-that MC Matthew saves the day??

SoupDragon Thu 27-Sep-12 08:27:33

He needs to hold on to something to when he takes over!

But if he does hold on to it there may be nothing to take over.

I reckon someone will find a spare wad of cash under a mattress.

diddl Thu 27-Sep-12 11:09:53

"But if he does hold on to it there may be nothing to take over."

But with Lord G´s record there will be nothing to take over anyway-and no money!

I just hate the way they all expect others to hand over money-but are doing nothing themselves to help.

Chubfuddler Thu 27-Sep-12 12:04:53

I found the hiring of servants quite realistic - basically they're living on another century. They've no idea what a state they are in. The only bit that irritates me is that they haven't sold the Lobdon house because all the Aristos on financial trouble between the wars did that.

diddl Thu 27-Sep-12 13:10:12

True-I guess that´s why they pay accountants!

Yes, you would think that they would sell the London house-maybe they do?

I think it´s hard to feel sorry for people that own two large houses-London & Downton-plus Grantham house & the Dower House (probably big enough for a family!)

And yet the main concern is passing everything on intact so as not to lose face.

MadamGazelleIsMyMum Thu 27-Sep-12 13:19:17

I think the sense of duty and responsibility in terms of the estate (not just the house) providing jobs etc is probably reasonably accurate. Up until the wars, there was much more of a feudal system whereby the aristos had both the benefit and the burden of their position, and the good ones did care about and for their tenants and the estate's dependents.

Ok by the 20th century things were definitely in the progress of change, but the wars etc accelerated that change a huge amount, but the old school Lord G would, I think, have a real sense of responsibility.

diddl Thu 27-Sep-12 13:35:08

Oh yes I get the sense of duty & responsibility to staff.

But tinged with a big sense of entitlement!

MadamGazelleIsMyMum Thu 27-Sep-12 13:45:21

Oh yes, let not the natural order be upset!

MadamGazelleIsMyMum Thu 27-Sep-12 13:48:17

Oh yes, let not the natural order be upset!

CaroleService Thu 27-Sep-12 14:46:14

Ha, a new footman. See - the big financial crisis will be as fleeting as Thomas's conscience spasm in Series 2.

Moln Fri 28-Sep-12 14:28:45

I don't think it's that it's fleeting but ptobably like nowadays when people claim they are 'broke' and what they mean is they will only be able to go on one holiday not three etc.

Animation Fri 28-Sep-12 18:58:36

Just watched the latest - and I see Strallen DOES like Edith in that way and things are moving fast. She said something about she can sort it in a month and he said no need - he'd return tonight! blush

TooImmatureTurtleDoves Sun 30-Sep-12 21:48:51

Where is everyone? Am I the only person still watching?

That was the feeblest plot ever. Oh yes, Lavinia's father wrote a letter before he died, based on a letter that Lavinia wrote before she died and got posted without anyone knowing about it at the time, and instead of blasting Matthew for sneaking around with Mary behind Lavinia's back, he blessed him and gave him permission to spend the money however he liked! Yeah, right./ hmm

visualarts Sun 30-Sep-12 21:51:10

Oh no!

Poor Edith sad

sailorsgal Sun 30-Sep-12 21:52:07

I didn't see that coming. sad

perplexedpirate Sun 30-Sep-12 21:53:06

The bounder! sadangry

visualarts Sun 30-Sep-12 21:53:16

It did seem to have gone a bit too smoothly. How could he do such a thing?
Perhaps Edith could become a first female aviator?

diddl Sun 30-Sep-12 21:53:46

Just saw that bit.

How absolutely fucking ridiculous.

I would have thought it would make him less likely to take the money.

Still wonder how it´s enough to save Downton.

So the place is being held up by American & MC wealth now??!!

LittleBairn Sun 30-Sep-12 21:55:37

Oh poor Edith.
What a bastard!

visualarts Sun 30-Sep-12 21:55:40

And yes, Strallen is a bit of a creep.

And no Matthew, don't give Lord G all the money, he's proved he's useless with it, investing it all in one company!

Llareggub Sun 30-Sep-12 21:57:41

This is the best (most ridiculous) Downton for ages.

visualarts Sun 30-Sep-12 21:58:46

Good on you Alfred and Mrs Hughes - old crock it is.

JustSpiro Sun 30-Sep-12 21:59:09

I loved Strallen until then.

I desperately wanted either Matthew, Tom or Lord G to follow him outside and lamp him tbh!

ggirl Sun 30-Sep-12 21:59:57

mrs hughes will die

too many happy endings so far

visualarts Sun 30-Sep-12 22:02:00

Meanwhile what was happening in the prison? What was Bates hiding, and why?
Definitely being led to think Bates did it after all, but does that mean that he didn't?

ParrotTulip Sun 30-Sep-12 22:02:02

Autumn romance, Hughes and CArson?

ggirl Sun 30-Sep-12 22:02:38

ok take that back

dapplegrey Sun 30-Sep-12 22:04:00

Excellent episode. Love Thomas and Miss O'Brien's spats.

GeorginaWorsley Sun 30-Sep-12 22:06:12

Am not sure Mrs Hughes out of woods yet...
Poor Edith.So that was the veil we saw floating down the stairs...

MorrisZapp Sun 30-Sep-12 22:06:43

I'd love to downsize from my gaff to Downton Place. I think I could cope with the cramped accommodation smile

Chubfuddler Sun 30-Sep-12 22:07:35

What on earth has Ethel got to say? She knows something significant, what on earth can it be?

Strallen would not have done that. No way would a gentleman of his standing and personality in 1920 jilt a woman, an earls daughter no less, at the altar.

Felicitywascold Sun 30-Sep-12 22:08:45

Hilarious ep. I'm loving being able to predict it as well!

The cad! The bounder! The total idiot!

I am livid!

And now next week it looks like Pickle will get in a pickle and put Sybil in peril. How gripping!

Mama1980 Sun 30-Sep-12 22:09:45

I cried for Edith blush <<pregnancy hormones>>

diddl Sun 30-Sep-12 22:09:51

Well that was just stupid.

I agree that Strallan wouldn´t have done that.

I thought it would have been odd to get both Mary & Edith married off so quickly, though.

Well, let´s hope Edith finds someone young & rich.

Not a drippy twat like Matthew.

blisterpack Sun 30-Sep-12 22:11:01

Oh God, St. Lavinia's father is just like her as well. What a ridiculously implausible plot device. How likely is it that a wealthy man is going to leave his entire estate to the man who broke his daughter's heart? hmm Even some affectionate back-slapping with the "My Boy" thrown in for good measure.

Edith being jilted was the saddest part of all the episodes upto now I thought.

outtolunchagain Sun 30-Sep-12 22:12:53

In real life I think the family would have been much more pro Strallen , after all young men were thin on the ground after WW1 and at least she would have been settled and financially secure ,she will end a spinster now . Hopefully they will send her to America to stay with batty Grandma and find a rich American.

Poor Edith , I almost cried,glad about Mrs Hughes' though, as long as they are right.

diddl Sun 30-Sep-12 22:13:11

Yes, because you´d leave it all to the man who was going to inherit a title & an estate as he´d obviously need ithmm
And you´d certainly want the snooty callous bitch he threw your daughter over for to benefit as well.

blisterpack Sun 30-Sep-12 22:14:03

Yes the about-turn at the altar isn't realistic. I think during that time no member of the aristocracy would do that at that point whatever misgivings they had. Come to think of it would it happen even now?

Sir Anthony is supposed to be a Victorian - and a former soldier. I agree he wouldn't have done it in RL. I'm bloody annoyed that he did it in DA life too. Poor Edith. Maybe the horribly injured bounder will come back with a good claim to Downton this time - thus bagging the Swire money too grin He's probably done well out of Canadian railways as well.........

dapplegrey Sun 30-Sep-12 22:17:43

Chub fuddled - I hadn't thought of that but you are right: Strallan seemed too nice a person and to much of a gent to behave like that. Did he do it because he realised he didn't love her or because he felt weighed down by Lord G's disapproval?

visualarts Sun 30-Sep-12 22:17:59

Ethel - I assumed she was going to ask Matthew's mother to arrange for her son to be adopted? Am I jumping to conclusions too quickly?

Poor Ethel, been treated so badly. As has Edith. I blame Lord G (partly) for both of them - he should have stepped in to look after Ethel, and it was he who made Strallan feel so awful, which explains though does not excuse Strallan's backing out at the last minute.
Don't know why Lord G's considered so upright. And he invested all his money in one company!

smugmumofboys Sun 30-Sep-12 22:18:42

Totally implausible but Maggie had some corking lines tonight. grin

joshop Sun 30-Sep-12 22:19:53

Not sure if Mrs Bates is ok..

Agree that Edith's family's reaction to the 'old crock' was a bit over the top. Weren't a lot of girls married off to much older men? and WW1 wiped out many younger men. I didn't get how she would be an 'old man's drudge' - that's what servants were for.

The Lavinia inheritance thing is a bit silly but the Bates & the Ethel stories are intriguing.

wintera Sun 30-Sep-12 22:20:19

That was absolute tosh and bollocks. I stopped watching the second series because it went ridiculous. Thought this series was better but its going daft again. No way would he have jilted her, and that miraculous letter was laughable. Honestly its like a period drama version of Dallas!

Chubfuddler Sun 30-Sep-12 22:22:49

Oh yes perhaps that is it with Ethel - maybe she wants major Bryants parents to have him after all.

LadyHarrietdeSpook Sun 30-Sep-12 22:26:33

Gutted for edith.

Thought we'd see sir a top himself... Wondering if he knows he's sick. Looked unbelievably pale- maybe not just fright?!


visualarts Sun 30-Sep-12 22:28:04

No, they mustn't have the little fella! Unless the Major's mother leaves his father, and invites Ethel to live with her. (obviously I realise this is impossible).
I think Ethel wants her son to go and live at Downton, maybe be brought up to be a footman?
I think you are all right about the family's attitude to Strallan being unrealistic - wouldn't they have been glad of the money, and just thought that Edith could look for happiness elsewhere if necessary....

Mollydoggerson Sun 30-Sep-12 22:29:10

Surely Strallan would have thought a few mini Strallans would've kept Edith happy and balanced out the age problem. Totally ridiculous, so sad, but God knows we all love a jilting at the Alter.

Mrs Huges is a gonner.

Could Ethel know anything about Bates???

He might have an STD and did the honourably thing albeit at the last minute? But what was Dame Maggie referring to in the comments about his previous wife?

Llareggub Sun 30-Sep-12 22:30:42

I think he knows he can't have children and this is why he feels he cannot go through with it.

Mr Bates is definitely guilty. I've never liked him.

visualarts Sun 30-Sep-12 22:30:45

Anyone able to enlighten me about what was happening in the prison this week?
I am finding this series rather entertaining.
What's Tom's problem next week, do we think?

Chubfuddler Sun 30-Sep-12 22:31:05

He definitely loves her. I thought he looked unwell at the altar too. I did wonder for a moment if Edith would go and live in the attic in her wedding dress.

Chubfuddler Sun 30-Sep-12 22:32:26

Bates cell mate had planted something in his bunk but bares was tipped off before the guards arrived to inspect.

Mollydoggerson Sun 30-Sep-12 22:33:54

Bates was being set up, he was tipped off, found the incriminating evidence and hid it, but the animosity is now at fever levels with the cell mate. Cue a murder......or a fight.....

Mollydoggerson Sun 30-Sep-12 22:34:54

Her wedding dress was beautiful, wasn't it?

visualarts Sun 30-Sep-12 22:36:59

Thanks Chubfudler, I had missed the 'plant'. I can't see where the cell-mate enmity thing's going, but there must be some plot line planned.

Will Edith take over managing the 'investment' in Downton Abbey, to give her something to do, and end up as a successful estate management company?

Annunziata Sun 30-Sep-12 22:37:10

I loved Mary's dress.

visualarts Sun 30-Sep-12 22:40:37

Cross posted - thanks Molly D as well!
Yes, the dress was beautiful, but I am now full of hope that Edith will have a fantastic fun career, and make snooty Mary very envious while she's stuck with Matthew becoming more pompous by the day.

Mollydoggerson Sun 30-Sep-12 22:42:30

Maybe Edith will start helping Isobel with the fallen women. Maybe Edith will take on Ethel's little boy.

What about Doctor Boo boo, giving away the helpful hints to Carson.

What is Tom running from?

Chubfuddler Sun 30-Sep-12 22:45:09

I note with amusement that Tom seems to have been rather tamed - dinner suit, drawing back from strallens conversational steer towards politics, in fact he was sat so quietly and conventionally at the discussion pre picnic I didn't even realise he was there.

Did they pack MacLaine off in the last ep? I don't remember her leaving.

And I can't understand why if they own that house they planned to call Downton place they didn't just sell that.

Mollydoggerson Sun 30-Sep-12 22:45:23

oh yes, Matthew is so lazy, he couldn't even put the paper down to go out and speak to Mosley, when he thought Mosley needed him.

How lucky he is. That poor young man saved him from death in the war, he inherits a fortune and marries Lady Mary. Lucky guy.

Animation Sun 30-Sep-12 22:53:16

Aahhh I knew Strallen wasn't right - despite it all moving fast last week!! Is he just feeble and weak - what is the matter with him?

Really felt for Edith there - poor love when she was curled up on her bed with her mum. sad

SoupDragon Sun 30-Sep-12 22:59:57

Poor, poor Edith sad

Dozer Sun 30-Sep-12 23:03:08

Poor Edith.

The highlight of the Lavinia's father's cash/marital dispute storyline was Matthew's blue stripy tie/linen shirt combo.

Mollydoggerson Sun 30-Sep-12 23:10:17

Strallan looked perfectly jaunty while off on the joyride to Downton place.

Mollydoggerson Sun 30-Sep-12 23:10:48

Mary has lost so much weight.

CheerfulYank Sun 30-Sep-12 23:11:36

I hate being an American so much right now; I can't watch ANYTHING EVER. <pitiful sob>

What in the world is happening?

ggirl Sun 30-Sep-12 23:18:03

yes lady mary has lost wt
she was stunning in the last series..not so much this series

Wouldn't surprise me if Strallen and Edith do a Michelle and Lofty (Eastenders, years back) in a couple of weeks and sneak off to get married quietly in a registry office somewhere once he's overcome whatever vapours he had at the altar. What a cad though, poor Edith.