The West Wing: Trivia, Questions (Here Be Spoilers)

(939 Posts)
Fiderer Sun 05-Feb-12 07:21:53

Also admiration and swooning. If you haven't watched all 7 seasons, read no further!

Two Cathedrals - have watched it several times and only just realised last night that Mrs Landingham was driving back to the WH as Bartlet wanted to tell her about the MS.

I love the scenes with young Mrs L and Jed.

Why "two" cathedrals though?

I always assumed that it was the national cathedral where the funeral service was held and the White House ie a cathedral of politics.

One of my favourite all-time WW episodes.

CaveMum Sun 05-Feb-12 21:00:07

Ooo, a new WW thread.

[pulls up a chair]

fivegomadindorset Sun 05-Feb-12 21:01:22

I cried when she died sad

Other favourite episode is when he had to choose a turkey.

thelennox Sun 05-Feb-12 21:01:39

I thought it was a connection with the chapel that his father had found the cigarette butt in, and then he did the same thing in the present ifswim.

thelennox Sun 05-Feb-12 21:02:44

The part when he walks through the office to the press conference and brothers in arms begins and they all follow him puts shivers down my spine.

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 21:05:42

Ooh ooh can I join in???

I always thought two cathedrals was about Jed's struggle between his faith and politics. And remember it was all caught up in the lying about the MS.

(gets DVDS off shelf....might be up a bit late)

Do you know that a friend asked me if she could borrow them recently.

Ahem, no.

Yama Sun 05-Feb-12 21:07:58

Yes, Brothers in Arms music does something to me.

I the episode when CJ geets all angry about the treatment of women in Quatari and shouts at Toby.

Yama Sun 05-Feb-12 21:10:04

I lent my boxset to a woman at work who was off for months recuperating from an operation. She had never seen a single episode before and watched the whole damn lot during her absence.

My good deed for the, well lifetime really.

CaveMum Sun 05-Feb-12 21:11:16

CJ, quite simply, rocks grin

And of course she can do "The Jackal" wink

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 21:11:30

Or the episode where she tells the press room about the 12 year old girls who weren't rescued from a fire as they weren't properly attired and ends by saying "but that Saudi Arabia, our partners in peace"

Or Glenn Close as Chief Justice.

My favourite scene ever is when Josh hears that Amy has been made FLOTUS 's Chief of Staff. I heart Bradley Whitford.

CaveMum Sun 05-Feb-12 21:13:06

The Supremes is quite possibility my favourite episode, but then again I love so many of them!

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 21:14:42

Yama you are a better person than I am.

I'm currently 28 weeks pregnant. The first 12 weeks were a little nervy and honestly I don't know I'd have got through it without The West Wing.

The Jackal!! Allison Janney is actually one of the coolest people on the planet.

Cristiane Sun 05-Feb-12 21:15:15

No no no, 'Evidence of Things Not Seen' s the best - CJ standing the egg on its end at the vernal equinox.

Cristiane Sun 05-Feb-12 21:17:04

I am so envious of people who haven't seen the west wing yet.

My daughters will have weird Pavlovian responses when they are older to the theme music. Long nights of me, baby, breast feeding and da de daaah de da de daaaah....

CaveMum Sun 05-Feb-12 21:17:21

Let's be honest though, trying to pick your favourite WE episode is like trying to pick a favourite child!

CaveMum Sun 05-Feb-12 21:17:57

WW obv!


Cristiane Sun 05-Feb-12 21:19:26

Why can't they bring it back. Make more. I need more. I have seen each episode about six times I think. It is ALL I watch really

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 21:20:24

Can you imagine discovering it for the first time again! I still remember watching the first ever one and calling my Dad in Dublin all excited and him telling me, "Love, it's been on Irish TV for six months!" WELL WHY HAVEN'T YOU TOLD ME ABOUT IT THEN!

Deliaskis Sun 05-Feb-12 21:23:17

I thought this thread was going to be actual WW trivia, like a quiz of sorts. Can we do that please?

I'll start....

To what was Ainsley Hayes referring when she said...'talk about your chickens coming home to roost'?

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 21:24:24

Cristiane it's the only thing worth watching.

I actually sit at work sometimes thinking WWLD.

(shuffles off.....worries she might have revealed too much)

thelennox Sun 05-Feb-12 21:24:52

It has got to the point I can now speak the dialogue from certain episodes.
I love it, love it, love it. Currently approaching mid point of season three in my 9 millionth re viewing of episodes.

thelennox Sun 05-Feb-12 21:25:40

Was it Sam and his work to protect the oil tanker before he went to work for Bartlett?

Cristiane Sun 05-Feb-12 21:26:39

Beginnings I do that too!

Gand what was Ainsley referring to... Something about education?

Deliaskis Sun 05-Feb-12 21:26:50

C'rect thelennox now you have to come up with a question!

Cristiane Sun 05-Feb-12 21:27:08

Thelennox I think you are right!

Hassled Sun 05-Feb-12 21:27:46

Oh I LOVE you for this. Real, true, meaningful love grin.

2 cathedrals - church vs state. Bartlet's Catholicism vs his duties as a President.

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 21:28:38

Thelennox beat me to it! The tanker broke its anchor off the Maryland coast after the steering failed and it was the one that Sam had been buying in the episode where Josh came to tell him to work on Bartlet for America.

Hassled Sun 05-Feb-12 21:30:39

My 13 year old DS2 is a recent convert. I say recent, but he's already watched all the seasons twice. And it's given us so much to talk about, so many things to discuss - and let's face it, a 45 year old woman doesn't really have much in common with a 13 year old boy. It's been great for us. I know he wishes he was Sam because at his parent's evening his English teacher said "apparently DS2 wants to be a speechwriter" grin.

thelennox Sun 05-Feb-12 21:31:39

Ok, ok.
Which country did Will Sawyer get kicked out of which meant he had to return to the white house press room?

thelennox Sun 05-Feb-12 21:33:00

Or to keep the Ainsley Hayes thing going ...
Where is she working when she asks CJ for a job in the Santos administration?

Hassled Sun 05-Feb-12 21:34:47

(I've cheated)

Deliaskis Sun 05-Feb-12 21:34:59

OK, Myanmar, I think, and also the Hoover Institute, where she had been only 2 weeks I think?


beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 21:36:03

The Hoover institute! In answer to the ainsley question. And she doesn't like it

thelennox Sun 05-Feb-12 21:37:16

Correct! Whose next?
This is so much fun, dh will get no conversation with me now!

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 21:39:01

Deliaskis again as she got both. I could remember somewhere in Asia but couldn't get further than that.

Deliaskis Sun 05-Feb-12 21:39:37

Who says to Will...'It seems I'm not done with the Baileys' (in a fabulous tone of voice, which I have often wished to be able to emulate(.

Cristiane Sun 05-Feb-12 21:40:33


thelennox Sun 05-Feb-12 21:41:58

Is it arnie vinick?

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 21:42:06

That General who was about to say something nasty about the President on his retirement??

Deliaskis Sun 05-Feb-12 21:42:23

Nope Cristiane , but on consideration, it's not necessary to get the actual name, as it was a bit obscure, but the scene/context.

Hassled Sun 05-Feb-12 21:42:27

Someone military - someone who knew his father in Brussels?

Deliaskis Sun 05-Feb-12 21:43:20

No and No lennox and beginnings



'well, I like to think I have a certain flare'

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 21:43:37

Some bigwig guy who has just discovered Will is the son of his old enemy, Supreme Commander of NATO or somesuch (although he thought he was the grnadson - Will appears to have been a surprise baby).

When Will is working on the foreign policy bit of the State of the Union.

Cristiane Sun 05-Feb-12 21:43:58

Oh yes that's it, yes the republican general

Deliaskis Sun 05-Feb-12 21:44:00

Getting close Hassled

thelennox Sun 05-Feb-12 21:44:14

Oh oh is it that guy Bryce ?

Cristiane Sun 05-Feb-12 21:44:19

I am getting so old that I can't remember this stuff properly

thelennox Sun 05-Feb-12 21:44:33

Ps thanks celestial!

Deliaskis Sun 05-Feb-12 21:44:49

Yes Celestial

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 21:45:40

Your go Celestial!

thelennox Sun 05-Feb-12 21:46:03

Should have said well done celestial but the iPad chose to write thanks. I am being taken over by machines!

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 21:48:37

Which 2 members of Martin Sheen's real life family feature in the WW?

thelennox Sun 05-Feb-12 21:51:30

One was Emilio estevez but don't know the other.

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 21:53:13

One was Emilio yes. The other one is female and was in quite a lot of episodes, in a small role, all the way through to the end.

CaveMum Sun 05-Feb-12 21:55:01

Renee Estevez. She played the blonde secretary "Nancy"

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 21:55:43


thelennox Sun 05-Feb-12 21:56:34

Hmm, will steal that question for next time me and my brother are quizzing!

Deliaskis Sun 05-Feb-12 21:56:37

Ah yes, Nancy, because in the very last eipsode, Jed says to Nancy...'tell your mother I'm looking forward to seeing her soon', and it was kind of an in joke.

Emilio was in the video as young Jed with baby Zoe wasn't he?

tribpot Sun 05-Feb-12 21:56:40

And of course in the final ep Martin El Presidente says to Nancy "please tell your mother [i.e. his wife] I look forward to seeing more of her soon". Nice!

CaveMum Sun 05-Feb-12 21:58:01

We're all such nerds!

I love it!


Deliaskis Sun 05-Feb-12 22:00:01

CaveMum next question...

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:00:36

I missed Emilio the first few times as I was all misty eyed over Toby and his "babies come with hats" speech, and never took in who was playing Bartlett on the home movie footage.

The WW is definately a refuge for nerds!

thelennox Sun 05-Feb-12 22:02:59

But nerds of such a high calibre!

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 22:04:14

Exactly Thelennox. Some of the smartest nerds I know are ww fans grin

Deliaskis Sun 05-Feb-12 22:04:20

And a wide vocabulary

Hassled Sun 05-Feb-12 22:06:10

Ooo I never knew that about Emilio. I've loved Emilio since The Breakfast Club - how could I have failed to spot him?

CaveMum Sun 05-Feb-12 22:06:17

Ok, according to Jed Bartlett, what are the three words in the English language beginning with "dw"?

[im aware there are more words in the dictionary, but we're going with what Jed says!]

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 22:06:37

Dwarf dwindle and dwell!

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:07:20

Josh : "You're quite a nerd Mr. President "

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:08:14

Wow that was fast beginnings!

Do you recall which fruit had its seeds on the outside too?!

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 22:08:38

Strawberry smile

God I need a life

Deliaskis Sun 05-Feb-12 22:08:58


CaveMum Sun 05-Feb-12 22:09:05


Your go Beginnings!

tribpot Sun 05-Feb-12 22:09:14

Hassled, it's very quick in grainy old footage playing on a telly in the corner of a room, he's not wearing a big hat saying "look at meee, it's Emilio here!" so don't worry grin

Just so Mumsnet doesn't get sued, CJ was referring to the women of Kumar, not Qatar. That said, she does refer to Saudi Arabia, 'our partners in peace'.

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 22:09:52

A contextual one

About what was Leo right?

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:10:25

LOL at all the strawberries.

No-one can say the WW did not educate us..

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:10:57


Hassled Sun 05-Feb-12 22:11:12

Yes, they were pretty brave re Saudi, weren't they? CJ was amazing in that scene.

I wish I could come up with a question. I'm tempted to get DS2 up - he'd know what to ask.

thelennox Sun 05-Feb-12 22:11:29

Which track is playing when Simon is shot?

Hassled Sun 05-Feb-12 22:11:48

Leo was always right.

thelennox Sun 05-Feb-12 22:12:25

When was Leo ever wrong?

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 22:12:27


Well obviously celestial but I'm thinking of something specific.

CaveMum Sun 05-Feb-12 22:12:33

Hallelujah. It makes me think of that scene, and cry, whenever I hear it sad

thelennox Sun 05-Feb-12 22:13:07

Oh no ds crying? Will have to forego my pleasure a little while? Enjoy folks!

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:13:10

Also he was right when he had Sam and Josh tailed "on the offchance that You're as stupid as you look!"

CaveMum Sun 05-Feb-12 22:13:15

Was it about CJ being ready to be COS?

Deliaskis Sun 05-Feb-12 22:13:28

beginnings Leo was right, about Toby loving his kids, it's a mortal lock...

lennox it's Halleluia

OK, my last question before I go to sleep...

Who sings ...'For once in my life, I got someone who needs me...'

And why/where?


beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 22:14:19

Nope and nope celestial and cavemum. Celestial it has a connection to babies coming with hats

Deliaskis Sun 05-Feb-12 22:14:33

OK, that was a bit presumptious of me, to ask the question, but I think I was right re Leo?

Night night, enjoy...

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:14:57

It did gall me that CJ couldn't have a bit of personal happiness for more than 3 minutes before she lost him. Also I loved Mark Harmon.

CaveMum Sun 05-Feb-12 22:15:05

Easy! It was Annabeth who had just seen Stevie Wonder at one of the Santos rallies grin

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 22:15:50

Deliaskis I knew you'd get it!

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:16:21

Ah! when Toby tells him he was right, in a moment amongst the madness of the kidnapping night? Actually that was lovely.

I haven't watched the whole run for about 2 years, so I'm just going to sit and marvel at your knowledge of all trivia.

I'm rewatching though, since I've found myself with a bit of time on my hands and had got to Dwarf Dwindle and Dwell!

CJ's jackal is awesome. I want to be her! In fact, I'm trying to work out how I can dupe DH into accepting CJ initials if ever we have another girl blush

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 22:17:59

Such a lovely scene celestial. Cheesy but really good.

Your go cavemum! And then I really need to go to bed.

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:18:13

That part was sad, because all the women were murmuring about her and Leo being together, and we knew John Spencer had died.

It does make you cry quite often, the WW.

CaveMum Sun 05-Feb-12 22:23:16

Oh lord [struggles to think of another question]

[resorts to Google]

What did Bartlett do in both the first and last episodes of WW?

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:25:19

Gosh. Quote from scripture??

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:26:12

Fly on Airforce One? (or would Santos let him borrow it to get home?)

CaveMum Sun 05-Feb-12 22:26:13

Oh he did that a lot, but that's not what I'm looking for.

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:26:54

Forgive a member of staff (mind you, he had to do that a lot too..)

thelennox Sun 05-Feb-12 22:26:57

Walk with a stick?

tribpot Sun 05-Feb-12 22:27:01

Walk with a stick?

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 05-Feb-12 22:27:08

What name did Abby and Jed call their future son in law?

CaveMum Sun 05-Feb-12 22:27:26

Here's a clue: it is something specific when we first see him in Ep1.

Hassled Sun 05-Feb-12 22:27:54

smoke a cigarette?

CaveMum Sun 05-Feb-12 22:28:39

thelennox gets it, but only by 4 seconds grin

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 05-Feb-12 22:28:59

Why did Ainsley go back to the mess?

whethergirl Sun 05-Feb-12 22:29:37

Oh you lot are making me feel all nostalgic, last time I did a run of WW was a few years ago when my ex had the boxset! I am ready to start over, have just ordered the season 1 boxset off

I felt so sad and empty when it ended though, like the death of several friends! Also I remember seeing Bradley Whitford on a chat show and feeling a little disappointed - he wasn't half as intelligent, witty and loveable as Josh!

Allison Janney however is just as amazing as CJ imo.

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 22:31:12

Wear that awful track suit top with the seal of the president on it?

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 22:31:50

Walk with a cane? He'd cycled into a tree in ep 1

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 22:33:03

To get a doughnut. Ainsley that is. I think

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:33:05

That is truly terrible whethergirl, did you lose the entire boxset in a divorce settlement?

tribpot Sun 05-Feb-12 22:33:22

whethergirl, you can't buy the box sets one season at a time, then you have to wait for the next one to arrive before getting your next fix smile (Plus they come in a very natty slimline set now).

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 05-Feb-12 22:33:57

Beginngs try sgain

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:34:01

the pastry chef was still on into the early hours, according to Sam

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:34:25


beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 22:34:28

And it's only £45 on amazon (as I kindly informed the friend who tried to borrow it)

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 05-Feb-12 22:34:47

Try that again, beginnings

tribpot Sun 05-Feb-12 22:34:54

And btw that tracksuit truly was dreadful. When he, Debbie and Charlie have had 'the full Silkwood'* in No Exit I think it is truly beyond the pale they then have to done the dreaded Presidential tracksuit.

* this is a quote from which other Sorkin TV show?

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 22:35:01

Pie, it was a piece of pie!!

Celestial reminded me with the cheesecake

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 05-Feb-12 22:35:07

Nope celestial

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:35:17

Also the boxset works out much cheaper in the end.

tribpot Sun 05-Feb-12 22:35:33

Ainsley: "I think that I saw there a muffin"?

whethergirl Sun 05-Feb-12 22:35:48

sigh I know Celstia, but it was his box set. I even stayed with him an extra few weeks so I could to see the last 5 episodes.

tribpot - I know but it's about £45 quid, which although is worth every penny, I just can't afford right now.

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 05-Feb-12 22:35:53

Because, I think I may have seen there, a .....

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:37:39

grin at beginnings kindly informing her friend of where to purchase it (I shouldve stuck to that too- am still one season short from friend who lost it...)

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 22:38:39

And Celestial is your "friend" short of a limb??? shock

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:38:57

The libraries tend to have each season - i would just go ahead and reserve them though, as they're rarely on the shelf if you just go in.

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:40:45

She let it on to someone who lent it on etc. V V bad breach of borrowing etiquette I feel. Season 3 it was. I mean, it was a Sorkin-written season and all.

<a little late to the party> There's a West Wing thread?! Ah, I am home smile

I saw John Spencer in a lift once. I thought it a testament to the man's acting that I believed, for a nano-second, that I was in a lift with the real live Chief of Staff and not some actor.

I bought my DH a t-shirt which says "let me absolutely clear, I did not do that..." on the front and "... except yes, I did that" on the back. We are WW geeks.

whethergirl Sun 05-Feb-12 22:41:44

Ainsley and her sodding muffins. It would grate on me slightly that she would eat muffins all day and still be so teeny tiny. With that squeaky voice of hers.

But love the one where she gets bullied and Sam Seaborn steps in like a true gent and hero.

whethergirl Sun 05-Feb-12 22:44:01

Celestial, I've been down that road with Lovefilm. Tried to get rent out the dvds in order but could never do it as some other nerd always had the one I wanted which meant I had to either wait or watch out of sequence.....nope, it's time I owned my own set.

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:46:42

That sounds like an excellent t-shirt Twiglet.

Do you stand beside him in one that says "I had Woot Canawl!" when he wears that?

tribpot Sun 05-Feb-12 22:47:25

Twiglets, loving the t-shirt.

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 22:49:20

Celestial, brilliant.

Sam did annoy me by telling ainsley she'd make "A good dog break it's leash" though. So unSam.

Did you know originally the show was supposed to have Rob Lowe as the main character and that he left as he wasn't getting enough screen time?

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 05-Feb-12 22:50:10

Its NOT a muffin?

I thought this was a proper Mastermindy quiz.

What was the son in laws nickname?

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 05-Feb-12 22:51:59

And you're kidding about Sam, remember Lori?

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:53:20

And originally they offered the part of Sam to Bradley Whitford? Mind boggles. (despite Sorkin writing Josh for him).

Its funny watching the first few episodes when you can see they had a slightly different vision for the show, before it settled in.

They never thought Martin Sheen would want to be such a regular character as he turned into but he was thrilled with the part - now there's a humble man.

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 22:53:23

Yes but he didn't know about her profession when they first got together and then he saw her as someone he could save which IS same.

It was a peach!

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 22:54:10

Sam, not same obviously.

And I don't know why I just remembered the peach

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:55:04

Mind you they had Janelle Maloney audition for CJ which is hard to imagine now too. The only mistake they actually made in the end with the initial cast was Mandy...

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 22:55:55

A peach! well done!

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 22:56:08

God Mandy was awful. I didn't know that about Janelle Moloney! Has she done anything since?

tribpot Sun 05-Feb-12 22:59:22

A peach, yes of course!

Is no-one taking the Silkwood bait?

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 05-Feb-12 23:03:22

He LOVED the fact Lori was a bad girl. That's why Malory was always going to tank.

Anyhoo, you're still avoiding the SIL question.

Another one: what does Amy embrace?

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 23:03:28

I think she pops up as a guest in various american dramas but also theatre.
I was amazed when she popped up in an old episode of ER but that would have been pre WW. Richard Schieff plays a patient who has issues with hypersexuality and baldness and Mrs L pops up as a patient too.

ER must be like Casualty for american actors.

But Bradley Whitford plays the husband in what I thought was the best ever episode of ER - Loves Labour Lost

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 23:03:49

Tribpot is that something from Studio60? I don't have satellite so never got into it?

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 05-Feb-12 23:04:54

And an easy one, what's the name of the theme time composer NO GOOGLING!!!!

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 23:05:42

Its Beginnings turn to ask a question though, responsibly! grin

As she got the last one correct!

CelstialNavigation Sun 05-Feb-12 23:06:31

Snuffy. Always hope thats a nickname..

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 05-Feb-12 23:06:44

Only when led by the hand grin

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 05-Feb-12 23:07:11

Nearly Celestial. Try harder.

beginnings Sun 05-Feb-12 23:07:12

I can't remember the son in laws nickname and it's really annoying me!!

Have to go to bed now....

I'll post I'd I remember in the middle of the night.

EnjoyResponsibly Sun 05-Feb-12 23:08:30

The fruit fly guy xxxxx

tribpot Sun 05-Feb-12 23:16:25

beginnings - it is. Studio 60 was good (and if you <cough> look around on YouTube you can find virtually the whole series </cough>) but highly confusing - Bradley Whitfield plays a character called Danny, Timothy Busfield (Danny) plays a character not called Danny, Matthew Perry fortunately is called neither Chandler nor Joe Quincy, Allison Janney plays herself in one hilarious episode, and Sarah Paulson plays a character based on Kristen Chenoweth (Annabeth Schott "bang bang").

Sorkin might as well just have put himself in it as a cunningly disguised screenwriter called Baron Corkin.

Fiderer Mon 06-Feb-12 06:00:00

You lot were busy! <shakes fist at RL>

Got most answers right - but am also stumped on the son-in-law.

I liked the way Ainsley ate what she wanted without any of that "Oh mustn't" rubbish. To Sam, "Did you bring your lunch from home? I brought my lunch from home. I ate it already." "I want to be on that team - they have the Kung Pau (?) chicken."

I did think of this thread as also being a great quiz opportunity.

Here's one: what are you not allowed to do in Indiana but are positively encouraged to do in New Jersey?

Fiderer Mon 06-Feb-12 06:03:10

Son-in-law = Doug or the fruit-fly one Ellie married? I read the question as a nickname for Doug, Jed and Abby clearly didn't think much of him.

Celestial, you are my favourite episode, btw smile If ever DH and I are driving around trying to find a place and then find we always have to say "or we could just pull in AT the Westley police station..."

Tribpot, LOL @ Baron Corkin smile The Danny thing always used to confuse me with Sunset 60 too.

Have you seen Brad Whitfield lately? I used to have a huge teensy crush on him but now he looks like Des Lynam!

CaveMum Mon 06-Feb-12 06:42:37

Composer = W G Snuffy Walden, or similar.

And I didn't have to Google - its just one of those names you remember!

BloooCowWonders Mon 06-Feb-12 06:43:42

Just sliding in here,

Any ww threads give me a warm glow smile

Every time dh and I watch another season, there's at least one episode where I think 'hmm, must have missed that particularly brilliant one last time around'

I always think I prefer the older episodes, til I get on to the newest ones and they're just so damned clever!

Donna still irritates me though. Sorry

Fiderer Mon 06-Feb-12 07:06:25

My question again, in case in got lost in my drivel post:

What are you not allowed to do in Indiana but are positively encouraged to do in New Jersey?

tribpot Mon 06-Feb-12 07:09:45

Fiderer, is it simply 'talk like that', in reference to Josh telling the congressman to shove his legislative agenda up his ass? (And cue the utterly hilarious 'victory is mine, victory is mine, great day in the morning people, victory is mine' speech).

The son-in-law's nickname - presumably we are talking about Doug, as poor old Fruit Fly Guy never really makes an impression.

CaveMum Mon 06-Feb-12 07:23:31

Can't remember Doug's nickname but I always grin at the episode where CJ and Kate Harper plot to set Special Ops on him: "Make him look like a tragedy she can cry over."


Fiderer Mon 06-Feb-12 07:51:27

tribpot - yes grin I like Ginger and Bonnie.

The "Victory is mine ... drinking from the keg of glory" speech was in an earlier episode (Post Hoc Propter Hoc I think) when he trumped Mandy, wasn't it? Because he somehow got HR (I assume) 443, whatever it was, to stay in committee until after the mid-terms.

She knew they'd be gloating in the WW. God she was annoying. Considering there was pretty near perfect casting for 7 seasons, odd that she was so wrong.

I am studiously avoiding doing anything this morning apart from posting on here!

tribpot Mon 06-Feb-12 08:04:18

I wonder if Mandy just seemed so wrong because she was axed without any real conclusion to her story. I found her extremely irritating and I didn't really understand what she was there for (sort of spin doctor? But wanted to do work for a Republican candidate as well?) but she might not seem so jarring if she had actually been written out.

gettingalifenow Mon 06-Feb-12 08:25:32

Celestial, you're my favourite episode too! I just love Sam when he's being all huffy at the desk sergeant

I can't recall the Indiana/ new jersey question.....?

Here's a trivia fact ( sorry if it was said upthread) - W Snuffy Walden also did the music for Thirty Something - also starring Danny ( real name escapes me momentarily) and Senator Rafferty ( Mel Harris / Hope) who Toby puts into the race against Santos

gettingalifenow Mon 06-Feb-12 08:31:23

Ooh, I see the answer now!

I think 'victory is mine' speech is in a Mandy epi, too. Thank heavens there aren't too many of those.

Also, talking of characters that didn't stay the course. Whatever happened to Angela, who was brought into negotiate the budget after Josh did something bad (like losing Tom Skerrit to the Republicans)? (Cue Leo's great line 'I should take you out behind the shed and whack you with apiece of 2 by 4')

gettingalifenow Mon 06-Feb-12 08:39:45

Danny is Timothy Busfield of course! smug look on answering own question

Fiderer Mon 06-Feb-12 08:56:47

I tried thinking more magnanimously about her character on re-watches of S1 but she does jar. Her "I've got a PhD and I'm cute" speech is one I always skip over.

Re the lack of conclusion, I wonder if as Aaron Sorkin saw the character wasn't working out, she just had fewer storylines and therefore we never saw her on TV shows or any results of her allegedly wonderful media consultancy skills.

Do love the scene where Josh tells her to go to Toby about the panda bears and Toby is still happy after his Day of Jubilee (Mendoza). There's a lot of silliness about the names, Dim Sum/Lum Lum/Ping/Ling then Toby loses his happy glow and says:
"Then get us two regular bears, a bucket of black paint, a bucket of white
paint, bam, bam, next case."

gettingalifenow Mon 06-Feb-12 09:15:49

Yes, the writing was brilliant even in the early days.

I thought I heard that the rest of the cast simply didn't get on with the actress and the cast dynamic wasn't right so she simply didn't get her contract renewed? Seems unlikely tho as in a cast that huge with so many great names there's bound to be someone who doent play well with the other children and so you'd expect they'd just get on with it?

Fiderer Mon 06-Feb-12 09:35:41

"2 cathedrals - church vs state. Bartlet's Catholicism vs his duties as a President." Thunk - see that now, thanks Hassled. How wonderful that your ds wants to be Sam a speechwriter.

You may have to keep him away from that OlivaMN when he's older. Surprised she hasn't posted. Always thought she has a red buzzer going off in MNTowers when The West Wing is mentioned wink

gettingalife - I wondered that too.

I was watching the "Manchester" episode in the barn last night. Bruno (prefer his hair longer) Gianelli, "We will work hard. We will work well. We will work together. Or so help me, mother of God, I will stick a pitchfork so far up your asses, you will, quite simply, be dead."

I have to go to work now, and instead of thinking "WWLD?", I'm going to repeat that.

CJCregg Mon 06-Feb-12 09:42:19

Morning, Fiderer grin

Fiderer Mon 06-Feb-12 09:53:11

Don't you go singing "The Jackal", CJ, or I'll be late for work.

I have emails to send regarding the daily Senior Staff meeting.

<am going to spend the whole day now wondering how I can introduce that at work>

DrBartlett Mon 06-Feb-12 10:11:15

Ahhhh this thread is just fabulous. Making me all nostalgic. Want to go and watch them all again from the beginning now. May have to invent phony excuse and leave work.

Too many favourite bits to list. Josh being an 'outdoorsman' when they are all sitting on the steps in second series after shooting for some reason has been in my head for a few days. smile

tribpot Mon 06-Feb-12 11:21:36

The "bam bam, next case" thing was utterly brilliant. And the pitchfork quote - it really does put the incongruous nature of Mandy's lines into perspective "I could kill you with my shoe" - errr, what?? I think maybe that was her problem, they could never find quite the right one-liners for her, and you can't be a proper West Wing star without one-liners.

I was laughing this morning at one of my favourite bits from The American President (filmic forerunner to TWW) where Michael J Fox goes apeshit at someone who has decide to vote against them on an important piece of legislation and ends up shouting at him and slamming the phone down on him. He says "Jarret's a no" and Leon Kodak (a sort of proto-Toby type) says "Well I hope so. Because if that was an 'undecided' we need to work on our people skills". Classic.

Deliaskis Mon 06-Feb-12 11:22:10

Morning, only just got back to computer, what's the current question, or are we just being generally adoring of all things WW, rather than doing questions?


tribpot Mon 06-Feb-12 11:23:07

I think we still haven't answered the question of Doug's nickname have we? Unless it's 'Doug' because he's too dim to have a nickname. grin

Deliaskis Mon 06-Feb-12 11:33:13

Oh dear, I have no idea about Doug's nickname. I assume it's something about him being dim....

Marvellous Mon 06-Feb-12 11:55:55

I know! I know! It's Doug Westin.

Marvellous Mon 06-Feb-12 11:56:13

Damn! You wanted his nickname! <weeps>

beginnings Mon 06-Feb-12 12:49:39

I think we got sucked back into general adoration Deliaskis. DH thinks we're all mad. He came to bed after MOTD 2 last night and said "What are you still doing awake?" When I told him I was chatting to you to you lot about the West Wing he looked at me like I'd lost my mind.

I can't for the life of me remember Doug's nickname. It's not something obvious like Dufus is it?

beginnings Mon 06-Feb-12 12:51:57

Tribpot I can't watch the American President anymore! I can't cope with Martin Sheen as "Leo"

But always remember, there's never an egg timer around when you need one.

tribpot Mon 06-Feb-12 13:12:07

LOL at 'dufus' as his nickname.

I have re-read the thread and I think that EnjoyResponsibly did in fact mean Fruit Fly Guy in the question "What name did Abby and Jed call their future son in law?" - clue there being future, plus later at 23:08 ER says 'the Fruit Fly Guy'.

So, forget about the nanny-shagger, it's game on for FFG's nickname!

beginnings, The American President is my favourite film, so I have to cope with the fact MS is 'Leo' (whilst not to be confused with Leo who is Frasier's Dad ... bloody hell it is worse than Studio 60!).

Deliaskis Mon 06-Feb-12 13:12:58

OK, I think we need a clue on Doug Westin's nickname!

Deliaskis Mon 06-Feb-12 13:13:56

x-posted tribpot FFG makes sense then!

So we need a new question....

tribpot Mon 06-Feb-12 13:16:15

No no no, I don't think 'Fruit Fly Guy' is his nickname - although now it might as well be - I was simply identifying which son-in-law the question was about smile

beginnings Mon 06-Feb-12 13:33:46

tribpot Mr. Sorkin does limit his range somewhat smile. You remember also who plays Sydney's sister??

Can we also just take a moment for the greatness that is Anna deavere smith?

Deliaskis Mon 06-Feb-12 13:38:46

beginnings ADS is indeed fab, great in everything I've seen her in.

gettingalifenow Mon 06-Feb-12 13:48:33

With you on Anna DS too - in both WW and the American President...

But can't remember who plays Sydney's sister <heads to DVD shelf with plans to waste the afternoon >

DrBartlett Mon 06-Feb-12 13:53:35

Nickname is driving me mad - deffo need a clue

Also love that movie - isn't Nancy McNally also in it?! Can't remember who she plays though.

DrBartlett Mon 06-Feb-12 13:54:01

AHHHH yes ADS - had forgotten she has a real name...............

DrBartlett Mon 06-Feb-12 13:57:52

Oh ohohohohoh - isn't sydneys sister one of the bartlett daughters?????
Apols for all crossed posts!

tribpot Mon 06-Feb-12 14:18:57

Yes, ADS is the fantastic Robin "not to be confused with CJ" McCall in The American President, followed by Nancy "keep the McNames coming" McNally in TWW.

The age-defying Nina Siemaszko plays Sydney's sister Beth in The American President and then Ellie "not to be confused with [Eliza]beth" Bartlet in TWW.

In The American President, she must be meant to be about 30 I would have thought, as Sydney is no spring chicken - in real life Siemaszko was 25 when the film was released, Benning 37. But fast forward to TWW and Ellie must only have been, what, 22-ish when she first appears in 2001 ... when Siemaszko was actually 31.

tribpot Mon 06-Feb-12 14:21:11

gettingalife, if you are watching The American Pres this afternoon, please check out which door Sydney goes out of the Oval Office that apparently leads to the Pres' private office. I'm sure in TWW that door doesn't exist smile

beginnings Mon 06-Feb-12 14:25:35

tribpot "At 5.45, 5.45 doesn't do me any good Lewis, at 5.45 network news is in make-up" said, at speed while doing a very good over the top of the glasses stare even though she's not wearing any.

Or back to TWW. Yeoman Fitzwallace or Admiral Sissypants. Brilliant.

And you're right on Beth/Ellie! She is ageless. We might have to hate her for that.

tribpot Mon 06-Feb-12 15:51:43

One of my faves is:

Lewis Rothschild [Michael J Fox]: I tell any girl I'm going out with to assume that all plans are soft until she receives confirmation from me thirty minutes beforehand.
Robin McCall: And they find this romantic?
Lewis Rothschild: Well, I say it with a great deal of charm.

Fiderer Mon 06-Feb-12 15:54:27

A question:
Why does CJ call Josh "Giselle"?

Deliaskis Mon 06-Feb-12 15:56:10

He wanted to be a ballerina when he was little....but really, he just like the word!

Deliaskis Mon 06-Feb-12 16:00:59

If that's correct, the next question is...

Who is Walter Huffnagel?

Cristiane Mon 06-Feb-12 16:29:59

homeless man Toby arranges military funeral for, after finding his coat


Deliaskis Mon 06-Feb-12 16:31:41

Yep, my questions are obviously too easy!

Fiderer Mon 06-Feb-12 16:39:42

Deliaskis - who cares? grin All v enjoyable.

What did Abbey withhold from CJ at the farm? Why?

beginnings Mon 06-Feb-12 16:46:35

tribpot or: "say what you like but it's always the guy in my Jon who ends up doing 18 months in Danbury minimum security prison."

Michael J Fox got some great lines in that movie.

Deliaskis have you another question for us??

Deliaskis Mon 06-Feb-12 16:47:10

Fiderer cider, because unnamed sources make her crazy!

beginnings Mon 06-Feb-12 16:48:09

Apples! She wouldn't let her have more apples because she stuck her nose in

beginnings Mon 06-Feb-12 16:48:44

Deliaskis you're right! I vascillated and look what happened.

Deliaskis Mon 06-Feb-12 16:49:01

Who died in the Gaza car-bombing incident?

Fiderer Mon 06-Feb-12 16:50:45

Fitzwallis, Congressman Desantos? and Korb?

Fiderer Mon 06-Feb-12 16:51:49

Or was he Fitzwallace?

Deliaskis Mon 06-Feb-12 17:01:22

Spot on Fiderer but have no idea on spelling!

gettingalifenow Mon 06-Feb-12 17:22:19

And then, a couple of days after the bombing, a congressional aid too - CJ announced it in the press room <smug look --I've spent too many hours watching this-->

gettingalifenow Mon 06-Feb-12 17:26:41

Ok, I've got one!

What was the name of the law firm Sam was working for in New York before the series started (flash back to original campaign)?

tribpot Mon 06-Feb-12 17:27:05

Gage Whitney!

tribpot Mon 06-Feb-12 17:28:14

I posted in a hurry in my desperation to be first for once smile What I really wanted to say was, it also appears in Studio 60 - well, a lawyer from their firm does anyway.

gettingalifenow Mon 06-Feb-12 17:31:48

Yep! And for a bonus point, what was the name of the ship he was about to do a deal on? Which comes back to haunt him in a later episode....

beginnings Mon 06-Feb-12 17:39:15

The Indio!

beginnings Mon 06-Feb-12 17:41:54

Tribpot I think we should do a matrix to see how often Sorkin reuses names and plot lines. In Excel. With vlookups grin

I'm sure half the representatives in Congress are in the ww and in the American president. Throw in Studio 60 and we've got us some useful pub quiz data!

Fiderer Mon 06-Feb-12 18:05:43

Nevada I am shocked that Arnold Vinick is not there. Have we entered a parallel universe? Dare I search for Matt Santos in the D primaries?


<revives to ask The Question> Who knows which states Santos won in the general election and how many electoral votes each has?

Fiderer Mon 06-Feb-12 18:30:51

I'm sure someone does - I always mean to look at Josh's chart more closely but then I mentally save it for the week I next have the flu grin

CaveMum Mon 06-Feb-12 18:33:16

Wow Fiderer, that's a hard one that requiries copious Googling!

Another thing I love about WW is that I actually have a basic understanding of US politics. In previous years I wouldn't have known what the heck a caucus or a primary was, but now I can watch the news and find myself muttering about Ethenol pledges and the like grin

Hassled Mon 06-Feb-12 18:43:23

I'm so impressed with everyone's memories - I know exactly what you're thinking of, but in terms of actually coming up with an answer, I'm stumped every time.

When Osama was killed and there was that photo of Barack et al watching it (looked too small to be the Sit Room - must have been some offshoot) I was in a whole WW parallel universe. I could just see Toby coming up with the right wording for the statement.

CelstialNavigation Mon 06-Feb-12 20:31:47

Josh's chart is another bit I never get to see properly as the picture of Leo and his "thanks, boss" just send me over the edge entirely. If it was "only" Leo who died and not John Spencer too, i might be able to cope with that episode better <doubtful>

CelstialNavigation Mon 06-Feb-12 20:39:05

Mandy's purpose was to be a love interest story for Josh. God help us.

Donna was meant to have one scene in the pilot but did so well they added in the "All the girls think you're handsome in this shirt" scene and due to her chemistry with Whitford, their relationship became the thing instead.

But I think Sorkin picked up on how much the viewers disliked Mandy because when he was asked why he hadn't had her shot to write her out he said "Honestly? I didn't think anyone would care..."

And then the rest of the cast got to use the catchphrase "gone to Mandyville." whenever a character disappeared. grin

CelstialNavigation Mon 06-Feb-12 20:46:49

I am getting a warm glow from the love for the episode I'm named after - my favorite part was when Toby has utterly chatised and subdued the police guys and Sam then has to add that they could do with some more signposts around here too ....

Fiderer Mon 06-Feb-12 20:55:12

Took me a while to understand the Ethanol thing. I thought at first it was just something you found in the chemistry lab next to your bunsen burner.

CaveMum Mon 06-Feb-12 22:18:01

Right, I resorted to Google for the answer to Fiderer's question and I think I have the answers. Here goes:

Santos wins with 272 votes

Texas - 34 votes
New York - 31
Pennsylvania - 21
Illinois - 21
Michigan - 17
New Jersey - 15
Massachusetts - 12
Missouri - 11
Washington - 11
Arizona - 10
Maine - 10
Wisconsin - 10
Maryland - 10
Colorado - 9
South Carolina - 8
Oregon - 7
Connecticut - 7
Nevada - 5
New Mexico - 5
New Hampshire - 4
Rhode Island - 4
Hawaii - 4
Delaware - 3
Washington DC - 3

It is worth noting that the Electoral College is different today as they base the number of votes on the most recent census and several states have been amended since the Santos/Vinick "election".

CaveMum Mon 06-Feb-12 22:18:31

[nerd] blush

tribpot Mon 06-Feb-12 22:34:22

So now CaveMum, unlike CJ you can explain the census to us? smile

Scarletbanner Mon 06-Feb-12 23:28:18

Wow, Cavemum, that's impressive.

WW really is the gift that keeps on giving, isn't it? No matter how many times you watch an episode, you can always notice something new.

I did wonder what happened to Mandy... Mandyville explains it!

CelstialNavigation Mon 06-Feb-12 23:40:29

Thats wonderful, Cavemum.

I love the fact that some WW researcher will have had to sit down and work out mathematically how to have Santos win by a close margin!

I read that before the show was cancelled, they were debating letting Vinick win, if this was to be the last season (and Richard Schieff was thinking of coming back fulltime again if they did do another season).

Then when John Spencer died, they scrapped that idea as there was more than enough sadness to end it on (and Schieff said there was no way he was coming back without Spencer there).

If Vinick had won we would never had had that wonderful moment when Josh butts into another meeting to come and extract Sam for his own purposes. I never saw that coming.

tribpot Mon 06-Feb-12 23:42:39

And a little quote to end our night:

Sam: "How'd you call Josh? Didn't they take your cell phone from you?"
Toby: "I used theirs."
Sam: "So on a call-girl's phone bill, there's gonna be a call to Air Force One?"
Toby: "You really gonna be teaching a seminar on call-girl caution? Really?"

Fiderer Tue 07-Feb-12 07:12:36

CaveMum - hurrah! Thank you. Er, where are Vinick's? <ducks> grin

tribpot you might have a point about WW characters needing one-liners. Even Joe Quincy had "We'd never want to compromise the aesthetic integrity of the steam pipe trunk distribution venue."

For quotes, here is a wonderful website.

tribpot Tue 07-Feb-12 07:27:35

Fiderer, Joe Quincy also gets "You know, not for nothing, but the people that I talk to don't believe that story, and the people that you'd like don't care".

beginnings Tue 07-Feb-12 07:41:04

tribpot that line and the way Matthew perry delivered it made me love him a little bit.

tribpot Tue 07-Feb-12 07:43:13

And beginnings note how he also restrains himself from going "could I BE any more Republican without you figuring it out?" wink

Fiderer Tue 07-Feb-12 07:56:43

I was going to quote that one too, about the not caring. Shows how much of a goldfish-bowl life working in the WW must be in Washington.

Which brings me very happily to Toby and his speech in the Mess to the staffers after a leak to a reporter ending with, "I'm simply gonna say this: you're my guys. And I'm yours... and there's nothing I wouldn't do for you."

Ah, Toby.

CaveMum Tue 07-Feb-12 07:57:59

The sad thing is I could do the Vinick stats now that I know where to look blush

It took 2 websites - 1 which showed a map of the US coloured in according to whether Santos or Vinick won the state, and showing how many votes they carried. However the states were not labelled so I had to find a map with all the states labelled and match them up grin

So what are people's thoughts on the Josh/Donna resolution. I know it divides people! Personally I'm glad they got together, to me Donna was a good match for him. She was tough enough to keep him in line (how many bosses would let their secretary talk to them like that?!) but didn't try and dominate him like Amy.

I also love the idea that CJ and Toby might have had a fling grin The episode towards the end of Season 7 where Toby talks about CJ always having him, Josh and Sam flirting with her and providing positive male attention is rather sweet.

Fiderer Tue 07-Feb-12 08:22:50

Spare your blushes (ponders what that actually means), CaveMum. No need to hide your WW light under a blue folder embossed with the Seal of the President bushel.

I liked the way the Donna/Josh thing resolved itself. That she left him and then he was put out at how good she was.

What I don't like is that she was the spokesperson for the Santos campaign and he offered her only the Deputy Press Secretary position. Why not Press Sec? Who else would have offered it to? Lou was to be Communications Director. Granted Donna couldn't work for him (she was right there) but CoS to Helen Santos? East Wing v dull.

BartletForAmerica Tue 07-Feb-12 08:50:11

Hillary Clinton set up her offices in the West Wing though - perhaps Mrs Santos was going for a similar First Ladyship?

MrFeederFiderer Tue 07-Feb-12 08:57:14

That worked out well, heh, BforA? wink

MrFeederFiderer Tue 07-Feb-12 08:58:09

Ah. Must remove Dickensian clothing.

gettingalifenow Tue 07-Feb-12 12:06:09

I'm a few hours behind the curve today but on Joe Qunincey quotes I love:

"CJ you've only known me an hour - it usually takes people. Wole day to despise me and everything I stand for"

And here's a trivia question to ponder over lunch -who did Joe (matt perry) clerk for after law school?

Deliaskis Tue 07-Feb-12 12:37:34

Aha, I know this one [I think]!

He clerked for Ashland, the one who didn't die, but got flowers anyway and eventually stepped aside for Evelyn Baker-Lang, because Josh loved her shoes.

And as an added bit of trivia, Ainsley Hayes clerked for Dreiford, who according to Tribbey, is an idiot.

gettingalifenow Tue 07-Feb-12 14:01:41

Indeed, Delia. Played by Milo O'Shea.

Which leads me onto best guest stars. If I could take us there?

For me it would be Glenn Close, as already mentioned by Delia, but James Taylor was fun to have on too....

(Actually, there haven't really been too many guest stars have there?)

beginnings Tue 07-Feb-12 14:13:23

yoYo ma! (in the style of Donna)

Now that's a good episode.

"so long as I've got a job, you've got a job. You understand me?"



beginnings Tue 07-Feb-12 14:15:34

tribpot you're right about Matthew Perry grin very good.

beginnings Tue 07-Feb-12 14:18:14

On the Josh/Donna question, I thought it was inevitable but was glad they did it. They work well as a couple and it would have been silly to let it go unresolved. And he did love her so much. It just took him a while to figure it out. Stanley ought to have given him more help with that smile

Deliaskis Tue 07-Feb-12 15:24:06

Yep James Taylor best guest star, but also liked Bon Jovi, just cos it was funny and incredibly unlikely that he offered to babysit the Santos kids.

And of course Aaron Sorkin himself, as 'man in the audience' at the Santos inauguration.


beginnings Tue 07-Feb-12 15:26:20

What about Penn and Teller burning a flag in the East Room? That was good.

Fiderer Tue 07-Feb-12 15:56:27

Delia - really? I missed that!

Bon Jovi could have been cringeworthy but it was funny how Lou went all star-struck.

Glenn Close is my favourite, maybe because it's such a great episode.

gettingalifenow Tue 07-Feb-12 16:21:07

'an international rock star babysitting my children - what could possibly go wrong'

I never knew about Sorkin in the audience - I must rush off and watchit!

beginnings Tue 07-Feb-12 16:42:16

I think he's even in the credits gettingalifenow!

tribpot Tue 07-Feb-12 17:06:21

With the Josh and Donna thing - it was inevitable but a bit hmm. I didn't see any evidence that Josh appreciated Donna more in the campaign than when she worked for him or that he got her in the way that she has always got him (cf classic scene in the run-up to the abduction when Donna lets it be known that Amy has never really understood Josh either).

Can we have categories for 'best guest star' playing themselves', as well as a 'best guest star playing a character'?

What about worst guest star? Much as I like her, Laura Dern was spectacularly drippy as the US Poet Laureate.

Fiderer Tue 07-Feb-12 18:11:17

So drippy = she was wetter than a haddock's pocket ? or dinner? (Blackadder)

I knew Joe Q was in Friends but I never watched more than 5 mins of it and I'd never heard of Penn and Teller. Live abroad and until fairly recently had only badly dubbed crap on TV so rarely watched. Thank heavens for affordable DVD box sets and the internet.

CaveMum Tue 07-Feb-12 18:17:25

Glenn Close would just edge it for me as best guest star. Though John Goodman and Christopher Lloyd were also good.

I have to give honourable mentions to two actors from Buffy (my other fab tv show) with "The Mayor" as Secretary of Agriculture and "Principal Flutie" as the bloke running for Speaker (character name escapes me).

Best "Guest appearing as themselves" - without a doubt the mighty Foo Fighters grin

Fiderer Tue 07-Feb-12 18:28:58

Bet Bill Clinton would have loved a guest star appearance. Or a cameo.

tribpot, I did think that before Donna went off to the Russell campaign (another topic entirely) things were v much on Josh's terms. After that, the other way around, or better put perhaps, she no longer cared what he thought.

Talking of Bob Russell, was Doug Weston's nickname similar, i.e. DW is so dull his nick/SecretService name is "Doug Weston"?

beginnings Tue 07-Feb-12 18:30:37

CaveMum I was wondering who'd go for the FooFighters smile they were great.

John Goodman was also brilliant. You had to love him through the hate "well, I'm going to have to be re-elected again in two years anyway, right?" love that pragmatism.

Laura Dern was irritating and so unbelievable as a love interest for Toby. He likes them strong and feisty!

LadyClariceCannockMonty Tue 07-Feb-12 18:32:19

Some random thoughts:

I love the episode where Toby buys the house for his ex-wife in the hope that they'll get back together. It's so ... desolate. He's my favourite character, although it's hard picking one.

CJ doing 'The Jackal' is of course one of the best sequences ever committed to film.

I don't think Josh and Donna ought to have got together. Tired and cliched. It was a better show than that.

Fiderer Tue 07-Feb-12 18:42:26

I find the house scene too sad, can't watch it <weedy> That and Mandy's "I'm so great" scene are the only 2 I cannot watch.

I was watching the Butterball hotline episode last night where Toby suddenly grabs the phone, "Zip code, Fargo, North Dakota."

LadyC - I love "The Jackal" even more now I read that Alison Janney was doing it in her trailer (?) and Aaron Sorkin then wrote it into the script. Only she was word and gesture perfect so they had to re-shoot it with her as "CJ" fluffing it a bit.

tribpot Tue 07-Feb-12 18:59:57

You can see how Toby might get a bit confused though - they divorce but she carries on using his sperm in her fertility treatment? (And I call it 'her' because I don't get the sense this was something they were actively doing together). That said, I completely heart Congresswoman Wyatt, so if she says it's fine then so be it.

Btw, bargain hunters, TWW series 1 is currently about 7 quid on Amazon! Do you know someone who doesn't own a copy? Then buy it for them at once grin

John Goodman was great. Christian Slater was another one who wasn't really given enough to do, other than smash a 300 dollar ash tray to explain why it had to cost 300 dollars. Personally I thought "is it really safe to be smoking on a submarine anyway?"

CaveMum Tue 07-Feb-12 19:04:42

Did we ever know how Andy got pregnant? I always assumed she and Toby had a bit too much to drink one night and ended up in bed together, rather than her continuing to use his sperm grin

tribpot Tue 07-Feb-12 19:10:19

Well they were having IVF in a flashback episode, but it never is explained.

CaveMum Tue 07-Feb-12 19:18:57

I thought they might have rekindled something of their relationship, particularly when Josh (or was it Sam?) says "You should get that nice girl pregnant."

There's so much background stuff that goes on that is never really touched on, only hinted at, particularly relationships.

gettingalifenow Tue 07-Feb-12 19:40:00

I agree Cavemum, I always wanted to know more about their personal lives.

Like why did Leo and Jordan not work out, or how come Sam was engaged again at the end.

On a completely different note, I just thought of Will's half sister ( was it Emily?) who wrote the jokes in his speeches in Orange County. She left with no explanation either....

CaveMum Tue 07-Feb-12 20:54:17

Right, never let it be said that I don't rise to a challenge. Herewith the Vinick results:

27 states went with Vinick (as opposed to 23 plus Washington DC for Santos) for a total of 266 votes:

California - 55
Florida - 27
Ohio - 20
Georgia 15
North Carolina - 15
Virginia - 13
Indiana - 11
Tennesse - 11
Alabama - 9
Louisiana - 9
Kentucky - 8
Iowa - 7
Oklahoma - 7
Arkansas - 6
Kansas - 6
Mississippi - 6
Nebraksa - 5
West Virginia - 5
Utah - 5
Idaho - 4
Maine - 4
Montana - 3
North Dakota -3
South Dakota -3
Wyoming - 3
Alaska - 3
Vermont - 3

CelstialNavigation Tue 07-Feb-12 20:55:12

I loved Matthew Perry's character in WW but it took me ages to realise that Ainsley had appeared in Friends.

The Toby-Andi house scene is incredibly sad LadyClarice.

But the entire jail sequence (when Charlie is angry he could've paid his bail with visa and got airmiles) is very very funny.

beginnings Tue 07-Feb-12 21:35:12

CaveMum I salute your commitment.

EnjoyResponsibly Tue 07-Feb-12 21:38:11

I love John Goodman getting on Airforce One en route to president Latimer's funeral and saying it's like a fraternity reunion, where's the keg?

CaveMum Tue 07-Feb-12 21:39:11

This kind of behaviour could certainly get me committed wink

[nerd and proud]

Disclaimer - I did look it all up on t'interweb! I didn't know it off by heart or sit and watch both Election Night episodes with pen and paper in hand!

EnjoyResponsibly Tue 07-Feb-12 21:39:34

Cave mum you are top Nerd grin, although I once had a hunch the result would be based on JFKs election, but when I checked it wasn't.

CaveMum Tue 07-Feb-12 21:42:14

Interestingly, according to one of the websites I used, that Electoral College split actually translates to pretty much a 50/50 split in terms of the number of voters. There would be less than 1million votes in it.

tribpot Tue 07-Feb-12 21:42:25

I love the way in the jail scene (quotes from IMDB):

Sam Seaborn: [to Charlie] You're all right?
Charlie Young: Yeah, I'm all right. You know, when you sit in a cage, you have time to do a lot of thinking.
Toby Ziegler: Hurricane, we were in the joint for two hours and 20 minutes, 'kay?

Toby Ziegler: You know what they don't tell you? You can post bond with a credit card.
Charlie Young: [to officer] Yo, man, that's totally whack!
Toby Ziegler: [into cellphone] Yeah. Charlie's trying to throw down with the street. It's kind of a sad sight to see.
Charlie Young: [to officer] I've got American Express. I've got Visa. I could've posted bond and gotten miles, damn it.

EnjoyResponsibly Tue 07-Feb-12 21:47:05

Best guest star Yo Yo Ma rules!

EnjoyResponsibly Tue 07-Feb-12 21:48:18

Especially as YoYo then played at Obamas inauguration!

EnjoyResponsibly Tue 07-Feb-12 21:50:23

On a roll now. My saddest scene is Mrs Landingham talking about her twin sons that died. Tears me up everytime.

gettingalifenow Tue 07-Feb-12 22:02:32

Just watched Ninety Miles Away with Brain Dennehy as guest star - he was great too.

Cavemum, have you ever thought of applying to any of this years candidates for a job - they'd snap you up!

Acekicker Tue 07-Feb-12 22:04:35

Another vote for Foo Fighters as great guest stars (total fan-girl). I'd also say Alan Alda was inspired as a series guest star for the last 2 seasons.

As this is the spoiler thread and I'm assuming we're all WW junkies on here, did anyone else get a tiny frisson on the non-spoiler thread when someone said how much they were loving CJ and her secret agent! I must admit though the episode leading up to the shooting was incredibly clunky in sign-posting his death - he suddenly appears with the deprived kid he is a 'big brother' for, the road is clear for him and CJ to get it on...dammit it couldn't have been more obvious if he'd been wearing a Red Star Trek Top!

I've got two friends starting WW from the beginning at the moment - I'm so excited at being able to watch them grow to love it especially as I'm coming to the end of a s.7 rewatch so I can go back and start s.1 alongside them

annalovesmrbates Tue 07-Feb-12 22:52:21

We've just started again. So many late nights with "just one more". I love Donna and her "randomness".

annalovesmrbates Tue 07-Feb-12 22:52:22

We've just started again. So many late nights with "just one more". I love Donna and her "randomness".

CelstialNavigation Tue 07-Feb-12 22:54:12

I loved Toby on that flight, Enjoy, singing "Suicide is painless" to himself..

"Why are we descending?! This plane, it's going down!!!"

Fiderer Wed 08-Feb-12 07:24:49

Also Donna asking Charlie, "Is he drinking?" and Charlie lying and saying "No" as he removes the now empty bottle.

I liked Agent Sunshine ("That's Special Agent Sunshine") and CJ. Killing him off was rubbish and it overloaded the already dramatic Shakespearean episode.

Plus if Agent Sunshine hadn't died, we could have avoided Ben, who was dire and imo round at place 712 of men CJ would never have dated.

Acekicker Wed 08-Feb-12 08:53:52

Oh god, I'd forgotten Ben, I never understood why he was in it, was there even a plot device around him? To be fair, apart from the Startrekredtop aspect, I do love that Shakespere episode, the ending is extremely well done.

I watched Annabeth find Leo when I was on the train last week - I sat there gently snivelling on the Circle line for about 10 minutes!

Pagwaatch Wed 08-Feb-12 09:05:11

No no no .
Best guest appearance ever...
big bird sitting next to CJ in the hall.

I cried laughing. The way he keeps looking at her and looks a bit sad when she goes.

EnjoyResponsibly Wed 08-Feb-12 09:12:33

Nice one Pag, had forgotten Big Bird!

Jumpyjack Wed 08-Feb-12 09:21:32

Seeing as we're talking of plot devices that go nowhere (ie. Ben), can I chip in with Elsie Snuffin (Will's stepsister)?

What were they thinking there? Did they have a plan for that character? She was as irritating as hell, seemed to have no real purpose on the show, and then just disappeared to Mandyland. Or so it seemed to me.

Acekicker Wed 08-Feb-12 09:25:09

Good point jumpyjack - no idea why she was in it really, except to add another character when they were doing the scenes in Orange County...

Talking of Big Bird, given this is the trivia thread for WW geeks, can we try to remember the Secret Service names for the staff - I'll start us off with the easy ones:

Bartlett - Eagle
Zoe - Bookbag
CJ - Bigbird

I'm sure there are more, I tried to catch Santos the other day but couldn't make it out...

Deliaskis Wed 08-Feb-12 09:38:35

Sam - Princeton
Vinnick - I think he was Big Sir or something like that, you don't hear it much, but I think it's in the King Corn episode
Jed is Liberty & Eagle, I think Liberty in the pilot, or very early on, and then Eagle

Can't remember ever knowing any of the others, although it's hard to believe they weren't in it.

Deliaskis Wed 08-Feb-12 09:39:00

And CJ was Flamingo, then Big Bird, I think.

Fiderer Wed 08-Feb-12 09:44:39

CJ was Flamingo, wasn't it? She was all bothered because she thought it was a reference to her having an unusually long neck.

Sam: Princeton

Don't remember any others.

Elsie Snuffit (?) - agree, why?

I loved the whole Shakepearean episode (apart from the gratuitous killing of Agent Sunshine), the music, the theatre of it, the way Bartlet talked to Ritchie and threw his lighter at the agent as he left.

Fiderer Wed 08-Feb-12 09:45:47

Delia - x-post!

Fiderer Wed 08-Feb-12 09:57:21

Is Toby's Secret Service name ever mentioned?

Suggestions? Mine: Weltschmerz. A touch of Yiddish. Though he did declare, "Happiness is my default position"!

EnjoyResponsibly Wed 08-Feb-12 10:01:28

Delia Big Sur is a mountainy bit in California so that would make sense

Acekicker Wed 08-Feb-12 10:08:47

Oooh - just remembered another one, whichever grandson wouldn't light the Christmas tree was Tonka wasn't he?

blush at getting CJ wrong, she was definitely Flamingo for a while but I'm sure she became Bigbird at some point...

TwoPinkShoes Wed 08-Feb-12 10:17:13

I cannot believe that nobody had mentioned CJ's fishbowl yet. Dh became obsessed with pausing the DVD at appropriate moments to work out the significance of what was in the fishbowl. It really was a little extra magic grin

I came late to the WW, but am about the embark on an entire second watching smile

CaveMum Wed 08-Feb-12 10:27:02

I'm off work sick today and am about to rise from my pit. I'm having a dilemma, do I have a West Wing-athon or a Sherlock-athon??!!

I do love me some Cumberbatch!

Maybe I'll do one Sherlock and then West Wing for the rest of the day. Key question is where do I jump in with WW? I finished my umpteenth run through back in October and sometimes I just like to jump on with favourite episodes. Arrgghh! Too much choice!!

Acekicker Wed 08-Feb-12 10:28:16

One of the things I adore about the internet - no matter how geeky and obsessed you might be, someone else is always more so and will have done the legwork for you grin

Disclaimer: massive goldfish bowl spoilers for those who pause on their rewatch!

DrBartlett Wed 08-Feb-12 12:03:42

Oh my! The goldfish bowl site is just the best thing i have ever seen. I had never noticed there were different things in it before! Perfect excuse for a rewatch, obviously in the interests of scientific research. grin

TwoPinkShoes Wed 08-Feb-12 13:05:19

Wow, thank you Acekicker. I'd googled like made and had found a similar website blog when we twigged half way through... But it was no where near as good! But interestingly, that blog didn't know them all either sad Will have to do some specific googling now for the obscure ones.

CaveMum Wed 08-Feb-12 15:19:33

Watching "The Supremes".

"I love her mind. I love her shoes"


gettingalifenow Wed 08-Feb-12 16:41:24

The only thingi've ever noticed in the goldfish bowl is a mini whitehorse - I'll keep my eyes peeled from now on!

Love 'the supremes'. - another guest star in that one is the hologram doctor from star trek next generation, I think

CaveMum Wed 08-Feb-12 16:50:31

Yes I spotted him!

Don't forget Jane Lynch as a White House reporter in one of the earlier episodes grin

Fiderer Wed 08-Feb-12 17:27:26

I'm sure one of the Walton girls was a reporter at Will's press conference when he was still running the Wilde campaign.
Was I hallucinating?

gettingalifenow Wed 08-Feb-12 18:25:19

Really, Fiderer? Which girl ( she must be quite a lot older now).

So many things to watch for next time around.

tribpot Wed 08-Feb-12 18:55:03

You weren't, Fiderer, it was Erin Walton and I think she was asking the question where Will says 'you're a long way from home' and she says 'this is a fun story'. More info to follow!

beginnings Wed 08-Feb-12 19:07:33

Good call on Jane Lynch CaveMum grin and on the mind and shoes comment.

Great episode especially when she says she's jus t going to sit and drink her water while they compose themselves. Such a shame they couldn't get her back for the inauguration but I guess she was filming Damages or something.


tribpot Wed 08-Feb-12 19:18:39

Mary Beth McDonough - actually from one of my favourite episodes, Game On. I just love the First Lady cutting his tie off just before the debate, not to mention the way he completely stuffs Ritchie. Alan Alda would have been a much more credible oppo during this campaign (although Ritchie not dissimilar to the current front-runners in the US I think?)

Continuing my theme of ages of actresses in the works of A Sorkin (aka Baron Corkin), Mary was a sprightly 41 when this ep was filmed, having been only 10 when The Waltons started and 20 when it finished allllll the way back in 1981. The episode itself was first broadcast very nearly ten years ago shock

Fiderer Wed 08-Feb-12 20:19:51

So it was her! Don't remember her speaking though.

The tie-cutting was great. Seemed at first to me a bit dull - game tie blah, till Bartlet explained the last-minute panic gave him that extra buzz of energy.

Ritchie was George Bush, surely? The folksy image vs the intellectual elite.

tribpot, 10 years? shock shock

CaveMum Wed 08-Feb-12 20:35:31

It's almost 6 years since they made the last WW episode!

CelstialNavigation Wed 08-Feb-12 20:36:24

The deranged look on Mrs Barlett's face when she waved the tie in the air...

tribpot Wed 08-Feb-12 20:59:51

"Abbey: Doctor Bartlet. When did I stop being Dr. Bartlet? When in the campaign did I decide that women were gonna like me more if I called myself 'Mrs'? When did I decide that women were that stupid?" wink

Cristiane Thu 09-Feb-12 10:32:22

The gail the goldfish website

This has restored my faith in the human race . This is wonderful

gettingalifenow Thu 09-Feb-12 18:59:28

So which episode did everyone else watch last night?

We pulled a double - In God we Trust and Things Fall Apart' - so we're heading into the democratic convention tonight.

<opens the wine, puts the feet up, ignores the housework>

CelstialNavigation Thu 09-Feb-12 21:20:19

I loved Josh staying backstage and getting a beer for Will and Donna. And how subdued he was as if he knew well how this was just the start of it.

whethergirl Thu 09-Feb-12 21:29:05

I'm so excited, I'm just about to start a re-run of WW again! I last watched it beginning to end about 4 years ago and haven't had any of the dvds since (they went with the ex angry ) but just received season 1 in the post and will start this weekend.

I was trying to explain to someone today how it will be like meeting up with old friends, but I think I came across a bit desperate/sad. I might try and rope someone else into watching it too so I have someone to share it with. You know when you feel the need to talk about it with someone?

The only thing I am worried about, is the inevitable feeling - and I know you've all been there - that comes when the end credits roll up, and you think "oh just one more." do I stop myself from staying up to 3am watching them until I fall asleep on the sofa? Any tips?

Acekicker Thu 09-Feb-12 22:11:34

Talk to us whethergirl if you can't find anyone else. smile

gettingalifenow the convention is fab, although again it is tinged with Leo sadness, I have to try quite hard to stop it spoiling s7 each time I watch it.

That Gail site is awesome isn't it? grin

whethergirl Thu 09-Feb-12 22:19:46

Thanks Acekicker. But I might ask some stupid questions in the process, I do remember a lot of it going over my head.

annalovesmrbates Thu 09-Feb-12 22:50:18

We're watching Shiboleth. DH's quest for a family carving knife will begin again soon..........

annalovesmrbates Thu 09-Feb-12 22:50:19

We're watching Shiboleth. DH's quest for a family carving knife will begin again soon..........

gettingalifenow Fri 10-Feb-12 07:11:18

Ooh, didn't remember that the carving knife saga is in the Shibboleth episode! That's in my DH's top 10 episodes.

How sad is it that weboth have our 'Top 10' lists and regularly compare them!

Fiderer Fri 10-Feb-12 07:25:34

I'm on S3. Watched H. Con-172 last night. John Spencer on cracking form and Jordan is one of those characters I thought would be irritating but wasn't.

I liked the way she sat in Leo's office and kept reading out examples of non-binding resolutions, "A resolution in support of Ohio's state motto. A resolution fostering friendship and cooperation with the people of Mongolia."

Lots of talking here, whethergirl, and no question about TWW could ever be stupid shock

tribpot Fri 10-Feb-12 08:03:55

I love the carving knife sequence but I can't help wondering if Charlie really has enough money to insure something so valuable - or why the Pres was wanting to replace a family heirloom with a shop-bought knife! Esp as he was such a fussy bugger, it would have been better for all to have commissioned a new knife.

whethergirl, bring it on here! I've had a friend who's watched them from the beginning just recently, having never seen them before shock - I keep getting texts from him that just say 'go CJ' and from that I have to work out what season he's in, never mind which episode or scene, all without giving anything away.

Acekicker Fri 10-Feb-12 08:36:08

Oh I'd forgotten about Jordan - she was rather great wasn't she...and then she just disappeared, presumably her and Leo's dinner either never happened or didn't go so well!

Is the carving knife one the same as the Butterball hotline - I love that bit when the President calls them up and Charlie has to get a Dakota post-code etc. Very silly but nicely done and not too long!

We watched Stirred last night. This is the one where Donna has an English teacher that she loved, who was about to retire. Donna spent the whole episode trying to get the Pres to issue a proclomation whatever that is for the teacher. He couldn't but instead he phoned the teacher (*bonus points if you can remember her name!) and made her and Donna's day. DH and I both cried when the Pres whispered to Donna "tell her where you are" smile

Deliaskis Fri 10-Feb-12 08:59:51

Molly Morello!

I'm back...

<awards bonus points to Delia>

celticlassie Fri 10-Feb-12 16:36:04

Molly Morello!

(I realise people have probably already got this but I'm always too late. blush)

celticlassie Fri 10-Feb-12 16:36:32


tribpot Fri 10-Feb-12 17:38:42

It's when Donna says "Mrs. Morello, I’m in the Oval Office with the President of the United States and it’s because of you." <weeps uncontrollably>

celticlassie Fri 10-Feb-12 17:54:07

I've got one! Who was Blackwater?

Also, surely I can't have been the only person who HATED Amy. When she was dancing around to Van Morrison? Not cute.

gettingalifenow Fri 10-Feb-12 18:03:15

My DH loathes and detests Amy too. I always liked her!

Pagwaatch Fri 10-Feb-12 18:52:47

I don't know why but I love a little exchange between Toby and Josh
(I am going on memory so it won't be perfect)

Toby : funny and smart - that's how you get women right?
Josh : yeah. Plus I have that boyish thing going on
Toby: (sadly) yeah. I don't have that.

Fiderer Sat 11-Feb-12 09:13:23

CaveMum, I was doodling in a dull work meeting this week and decided a tally down the right margin of S(antos) vs V(inick) states and electoral votes that I could remember was an excellent use of my time. The man opposite me kept trying to read my "notes" upside down and was visibly puzzled. S: TX 34, NY 31...

<easily amused>

I can admit on here I have actually done this before. Only now I can check my tally with CaveMum's list. My dad worked for an American company and used to doodle the 50 US states and hope the meeting ended before he got all 50. So I am carrying on a family tradition and the next time I'm bored in a meeting I'll have the consolation that if the meeting drags on, I at least have a chance to get further than the 15 States I managed last time...

gettingalifenow Sat 11-Feb-12 09:24:49

Here's a thought, how about we set up our own accredited WW Masters programme?

We can include modules on electoral math (Fiderer and Cavemum, you've already passed); on secret service code names; on guest star appearances etc. all to be illustrated with quotes as appropriate.

And a final module on best music tracks of the show, which is a topic we've not yet covered here!

I'll start it : I love Alleluia, when Simon is shot and New York Minute, in the episode where Sam finds out about his Dad's double life.

Deliaskis Sat 11-Feb-12 10:31:53

celtic Blackwater was the spy, whose actual name escapes me, who was betrayed by Daniel Galt and ended up, I assume, dead.

gettingalife I like your thinking, we really are a very knowledgable bund about a -TV-- show .

So music, also love New York Minute, and of course Brothers in Arms. There's also a fun kind of trad jazz trombones etc. type thing the first few minutes of The Cold, when they're discovering they're tied, nationally, and they're waking everyone up, and Josh & Donna kiss. Don't know what it's called though but it always makes me smile.

Also the haunting music that they play when they're looking at the flowers and tributes to Zoey when she is kidnapped and the Bartletts go to church.

There's another song, a very 'all-American' one that I like when Santos & Vinnick are on the road and on and off of planes. Can't remember what that's called either.

I guess I fail the music module.

Hassled Sat 11-Feb-12 10:42:55

Oh I hated Amy too. She was never right for Josh. That wise-ass stuff - it just irritated me. And there was never any tenderness in their relationship.

I love that Gail the Goldfish site. I just can't quite believe I never realised there was anything of interest in the goldfish bowl.

Moving music during Zoe kidnap is Sanvean

gettingalifenow Sat 11-Feb-12 10:44:36

Delia, that's Big Old Jetairliner by the Steve Miller Band.

I often think it would be the perfect job to be the guy or girl who puts the music to the episodes

tribpot Sat 11-Feb-12 11:01:02

Josh and Donna music was called 'Bang Bang', not entirely sure what message that was meant to convey?? grin

I think the other piece of music was in The Mommy Problem? Jet Airliner.

Honourable mention from me for For What It's Worth.

celticlassie Sat 11-Feb-12 11:55:42

In terms of music, I've just watched 20 hours in America, part 2, when the pipe bombs have gone off at the swim meet, and they play a lovely version of I don't like Mondays.

Fiderer Sat 11-Feb-12 11:56:39

"Take This Sabbath Day" music is lovely in that episode. I think Toby alone could have done the whole moral bit and they could have omitted all the Sam, Joey Lucas and the parish priest scenes.

tribpot Sat 11-Feb-12 13:23:02

"You want me to go into the Oval Office and say 'vengeance isn't Jewish?"
"Why not?"
"Well for one thing, neither is the President".

I think Sorkin wanted to present a range of views, although from a bunch of people who seem bizarrely knowledgeable about each other (parish priest tells the Pres he was visited by a 'Quaker', how would he know that?)

changeforthebetter Sat 11-Feb-12 14:16:15

I love "Bang Bang" - such a great song, really upbeat and swanky grin

Does anyone know which track is playing when Amy and Donna are talking about Josh and Donna says "you have to get Josh" and Amy replies with a question "do you get Josh?".

I have quite a few WW tracks on my MP3 - ooh and what's the one Foo Fighters are playing just before Santos comes out to make a statement about Leo's death?

gettingalifenow Sat 11-Feb-12 16:34:18

I don't know for sure change but it could well be Ave Maria which is a thread which runs through poignant Josh scenes..

CaveMum Sat 11-Feb-12 17:47:13

"Brothers in Arms" is, for me, the definitive WW song!

The choral performance of "Drummer Boy", sung in the White House and used as a background to the scenes of Toby and Mrs Landinghan at Walter's funeral, never fails to choke me up sad

changeforthebetter Sat 11-Feb-12 18:20:23

Definitely agree with both those Cave - wonderful. Those are two of my favourite episodes.

It's not Ave Maria - it's Season 4 and it's R'n'B-ish/Rock-ish. There's lots of sexual tension swirling about. It's late at night and they are drinking beer. I may have to watch season 4 again to check which episode it is grin. I haven't found it on any of the geeky WW trivia websites which I love wink

CelstialNavigation Sat 11-Feb-12 19:02:02

I liked the Ryan Adam's one, Desire, when they used it in King Corn.

And whoever made the video of Shadow of Two Gunmen, with the Ave Maria soundtrack probably has shares in Kleenex.

Toby's reaction when he finds Josh already makes me cry, without the addition of a soundtrack.

Fiderer Sat 11-Feb-12 19:10:42

I couldn't stand Dire Straits before TWW. Then the "Brothers In Arms" bit had me holding my breath for the first time ever because of a TV show.

tribpot - yes, I always wonder how the priest knew, it grates. It was such a powerful message and I liked how the slapstick Hungover-Josh plot developed.

tribpot Sat 11-Feb-12 19:15:43

The Amy-Donna moment is in the final episode isn't it? In the tension-building sequence when scrumptious Agent Wesley is realising that the shit's hit the fan and Zoey's gone missing.

Btw, returning to my Worst Guest Star theme, Jean-Paul has to rate as one of the worst characters ever. I mean I know finding a rival for Charlie was always going to be a stretch but that guy?

tribpot Sat 11-Feb-12 19:20:35

Sorry, penultimate episode. Is it Angel by Massive Attack?

CelstialNavigation Sat 11-Feb-12 19:25:28

I actually have a very important question if anyone can help.

Does anyone have commentaries on their dvds?

Considering ordering the american edition of season 2 as it has various Sorkin/Schlamme/Whitford/Sheen commentary on Shadow of Two Gunmen, Noel and 18th & Pontomac and would like to check if its on any UK editions of dvds first.

<commentary trivia would send my geekish little west wing heart into overdrive>

celticlassie Sat 11-Feb-12 19:40:24

It's funny, I've been watching season 4 all day and there's definitely a development in the Donna / Josh relationship - through the whole Christmas / Christan Slater romance, then especially at the inauguration ball, but then after series 4 it seems to go on the back burner again.

Re John Paul, I think he just had to be the anti-Charlie.

celticlassie Sat 11-Feb-12 19:44:38

No - no commentaries. You got my hopes up there so I ran to check but sadly not. sad

CelstialNavigation Sat 11-Feb-12 19:48:43

^^ Thanks. As far as I can make out, they are on the US versions - I am going to invest in secondhand US versions (since I need to replace first 3 seasons anyway) and shall report back.

tribpot Sat 11-Feb-12 19:49:33

Commentaries? I was waiting for Martin Sheen and the gang to come round to my actual house to watch the series with me smile

But I'm gutted to discover that they exist but are not available on the UK DVDs.

CelstialNavigation Sat 11-Feb-12 20:04:21

There are 4 or 5 per season I've just discovered.

On the plus side, you can buy the US DVD sets secondhand through amazon UK, which costs less than new UK ones - season 2 cost £7.

CaveMum Sat 11-Feb-12 20:27:32

The Josh/Donna relationship also steps up a gear at the end of Season 5 when he flies out to Germany to see her after the Gaza bombing. He loves crestfallen when Irish photographer guy turns up sad

CelstialNavigation Sat 11-Feb-12 20:37:27

Much as I like the Lucius Malfoy/Jackson Brodie actor, his supposed Northern Ireland accent drove me distracted in that episode.

But I loved the scene where Josh was trying to convince himself/Leo that he didn't feel the need to go to Donna, and Leo just looks at him and calls his bluff completely.

CelstialNavigation Sat 11-Feb-12 20:48:27

" I wouldn't stop for red lights..."

CelstialNavigation Sat 11-Feb-12 20:48:50

" I wouldn't stop for red lights..."

Acekicker Sat 11-Feb-12 21:34:48

It was definitely US editions only that had the commentaries. I remember either Amazon or perhaps even the boxes promised commentaries and when you opened them they weren't there...

...must check if my s1 has commentary/extras as we bought it in the US...

<gets very excited at prospect> - will come back and share what they're like if they're there!

CelstialNavigation Sat 11-Feb-12 21:39:48

Please do Acekicker - [[ It should be on these episodes]]

CelstialNavigation Sat 11-Feb-12 21:40:48
gettingalifenow Sun 12-Feb-12 11:46:53

OMG only just realised that the photographer (Colin?) is Lucious Malfoy!

Our box set has all the commentaries - I bought it on eBay many years ago and only after the fact realised that it must be a Chinese fake copy. Which explains why a couple of the discs don't play ( on our main machine - the old version Xbox has no trouble playing anything).

We haven't even looked at all of the commentaries - just one or two ( hangs head in shame and resolves to do better)

tribpot Sun 12-Feb-12 14:07:52

Yup, Colin the photographer could at any moment throw on a long blond(e) wig (Donna's?) and suddenly hiss "behave, Draco". I should stress, he does not do this smile

I wonder why they released the DVDs without the commentary in Europe - esp when they re-released in the super-duper slimline case. Maybe they thought Johnny European wouldn't be able to understand what the commentators were saying confused - although I would imagine it must be virtually impossible to get the humour to translate when dubbing/sub-titling The West Wing into other languages? Since I can't listen to the commentary I might watch a bit with sub-titles on and then report back! I seem to remember even the English sub-titles can't really convey the humour.

changeforthebetter Sun 12-Feb-12 17:06:59

thanks *Tribpot" - of course!! They also play it in the club where Zooey has her drink spiked by the dastardly Jean-Paul.

<hits head in durr moment>
<checks wine stocks>
<lines up season 4 for after kids' bedtime>
<utters grateful thanks for half term holiday>

Deliaskis Mon 13-Feb-12 15:42:55

A bit late to the party, but you are all sooooo much better at the music module than me sad.

And I am also sad that there are commentaries, and I don't have them [wails].

But on the whole, this thread still makes me grin ...the thread giveth and the thread taketh away and all that wink.

We're jsut starting season 6 (again), post Gaza, off to Camp David, it's all about to get so sad yet so noble.

tribpot Mon 13-Feb-12 16:38:41

I really didn't like the start of series 6. I thought the death of Fitz was stupid and the Leo-in-the-woods scene preposterous. But then I'm a Sorkinite (or should that be Corkinite) so all the series after 4 are not in the same league for me!

gettingalifenow Mon 13-Feb-12 17:23:52

On the Josh and Donna thing, we are just into season 7 here and have just watched the one where Donna goes to the Santos campaign for a job, and Josh turns her down. But he does say 'don't you think I don't miss you every day?' . He says it with such yearning, it makes me sigh

CaveMum Mon 13-Feb-12 20:00:32

tribpot, I'm fairly sure I read that the Leo heart attack storyline was kinda forced on them by John Spencer's own health problems. There was no way Leo would have stood aside, he wasn't that kind of person.

Also, it was obviously never the intention for CJ to be CoS, as in the episode "Access" in Season 5, they refer to her as leaving the White House as Press Secretary.

CelstialNavigation Mon 13-Feb-12 20:08:10

Access was such a strange episode. I tend to forget about it and it comes as a surprise when i come across it again (Gail has a better memory than me).

OliviaMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 13-Feb-12 20:11:46

A lovely looking WW thread
<<must not let Justine catch me get sidetracked>>
<<marks place>>

CelstialNavigation Mon 13-Feb-12 20:26:53

Where have you BEEN, Olivia?

There was a shoutout for you, miles upthread wink

OliviaMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 13-Feb-12 21:00:22


"We will work hard. We will work well. We will work together. Or so help me, mother of God, I will stick a pitchfork so far up your asses, you will, quite simply, be dead."

I have to go to work now, and instead of thinking "WWLD?", I'm going to repeat that.

Wonder if Justine will approve this as our new troll hunting policy?!

Fiderer Tue 14-Feb-12 07:00:09

As an MN motto it'd certainly make people think twice about posting in the wrong topic.

Probably a few WW quotes could be applied to MN, but not the following:

"DPC says it's not ready, OMB says it's not revenue neutral and I'm
declaring a war on all acronyms."

Fiderer Tue 14-Feb-12 17:25:14

Wished they'd used more of Bruno, pre-Vinick. He wasn't as funny when working for the Republicans wink

I've always wondered why, when Bartlet was re-elected, the tally shown was the popular votes, not the electoral college votes. This time around I was struck by the thought - inspired by Richie=Bush - that that was a further jibe, in that Al Gore won more popular votes than Bush.

Or am I over-thinking? If that were at all possible where TWW is concerned <sharp intake of breath>

OliviaMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 14-Feb-12 17:50:41


Fave quotes that are repeated a lot in the Towers aside from OBVIOUSLY tssdncop
"I'm on hold. [paces] I'm on hold. [slams phone against desk] I'm in some kind of hellish hold world of holding."

Also Victory is mine

My piece of trivia
did you know that Rob Lowe, martin sheen and Alison Janney all have the same hometown?

CelstialNavigation Tue 14-Feb-12 20:23:51

Do you ask for the finest muffins and bagels in all the land when victory is yours, Olivia? You're missing a trick there otherwise.

There are commentaries on

Episode 1.01: “Pilot”
Commentators: Aaron Sorkin Thomas Schlamme
Episode 1.10: “In Excelsis Deo”
Commentators: Aaron Sorkin Thomas Schlamme Alex Graves
Episode 1.14: “Take This Sabbath Day”
Commentators: Aaron Sorkin Thomas Schlamme
Episode 1.15: “Celestial Navigation”
Commentators: Aaron Sorkin Thomas Schlamme Christopher Misiano
Episode 1.22: “What Kind of Day Has It Been”
Commentators: Aaron Sorkin Thomas Schlamme

Episode 2.01: “In the Shadow of Two Gunmen (Part 1)”
Commentators: Aaron Sorkin Thomas Schlamme Bradley Whitford Janel Moloney
Episode 2.02: “In the Shadow of Two Gunmen (Part 2)”
Commentators: Aaron Sorkin Thomas Schlamme Martin Sheen
Episode 2.10: “Noel”
Commentators: Aaron Sorkin Thomas Schlamme Bradley Whitford
Episode 2.21: “18th and Potomoc”
Commentators: Aaron Sorkin Robert Berlinger Kathryn Joosten

Episode 3.03: “Manchester: Part II”
Commentators: Aaron Sorkin Thomas Schlamme Allison Janney
Episode 3.10: “Bartlet for America”
Commentators: Aaron Sorkin Thomas Schlamme John Spencer
Episode 3.22: “Posse Comitatus”
Commentators: Aaron Sorkin Alex Graves Thomas Schlamme

Episode 4.06: “Game On”
Commentators: Aaron Sorkin Alex Graves Thomas Schlamme Joshua Malina
Episode 4.22: “Commencement”
Commentators: Aaron Sorkin Thomas Schlamme Alex Graves
Episode 4.23: “Twenty Five”
Commentators: Aaron Sorkin Christopher Misiano Thomas Schlamme

Episode 5.01: “7A WF 83429”
Commentators: John Wells Alex Graves
Episode 5.02: “The Dogs of War”
Commentators: John Wells Christopher Misiano
Episode 5.17: “The Supremes”
Commentators: Alex Graves Jessica Yu Debora Cahn

Episode 6.13: “King Corn”
Commentators: John Wells Alex Graves
Episode 6.20: “In God We Trust”
Commentators: Christopher Misiano Lawrence O'Donnell Jr.
Episode 6.22: “2162 Votes”
Commentators: John Wells Alex Graves.

On the american dvds only. I have been so tempted by getting commentary on Noel and Shadow of Two Gunmen that I've bought secondhand american season 2 - waiting for delivery.

Sorkin commenting on his last episode must be sad.

CelstialNavigation Tue 14-Feb-12 20:25:29

My bit of trivia - Sorkin said he was going to resolve the kidnapping very differently (although Zoe still found) BUT his plan involved bringing back Sam.

Northey Tue 14-Feb-12 21:46:12

Ooh, that's tempted me out from lurking. How was he going to resolve it?

CelstialNavigation Tue 14-Feb-12 22:27:27

He said Zoe was to be found in the back of a Muffler shop (which I understand as a mechanic's garage) he had planned it all quite differently.

I couldn't believe Sam could have been back if Sorkin hadn't been gone.

I'm one of the people who definately prefers the banter and interactions of the Sorkin years, although I did find parts of the final season v moving.

Northey Tue 14-Feb-12 22:28:59

What was the mechanism by which Sam would have reappeared?

<bated breath>

tribpot Tue 14-Feb-12 23:09:49

I suppose the advantage of Sam having 'left' with no explanation is that he could be reinserted into the plot again in a 'oh Sam, there you are' <Leo looks up from his desk> kind of way.

But I don't think Sorkin has ever said much about how he would have done it really, has he? Hopefully he would have come up with a less daft way in which Zoey would be found (drunk woman let out of a car in the middle of nowhere or summat?) or explanation as to why Nancy McNally felt it was an 'absurd' kidnapping when a Secret Service agent had been killed at the scene.

CelstialNavigation Tue 14-Feb-12 23:39:02

He only said the muffler shop part that I ever read, and that it was meant to be very different from how John Wells decided to do it. (Nancy also did speculate on finding Zoe somewhere like that, didn't she?).

I hope for more illumination from his commentary on the episode with the kidnap, if I ever get hold of it.

I'm sure he had a better longterm plan when he planned to have her kidnapped - agree it was quite daft Tribpot. I always feel like a big chunk has been edited out - the explanation is so vague and its all resolved in a big rush for the end of the episode.

He didn't elaborate on how Sam was to return, sorry Northey! But it would make some sense if Sam felt he should return/ was asked to come back when the whole place was in crisis. The way he left was quite unsatisfying.

Fiderer Wed 15-Feb-12 06:46:42

Nancy actually said "muffler shop" I think. She thought it was absurd that the plan relied on Zoe going to the loos. Though if the kidnappers had been shadowing her, they'd have known about the party from the grapevine so it's not absurd. Wait and grab, surely?

I'm curious, what sets off the "Victory is mine" chant in MN Towers?

tribpot Wed 15-Feb-12 07:28:05

She did - her supposition was in this 'absurd kidnapping' Zoey would turn up in the back of a muffler shop. This was to do with it being a low-tech operation, although still on that basis it's not clear how they managed to bypass the security net, or why Molly didn't call in to say she'd lost Zoey when she went to try and find her. Etc etc.

Fiderer Wed 15-Feb-12 08:06:58

Yes to low-tech operation. All very iffy, I think I found that transcript site while trying to work out how Zoey was found and gave up trying to figure it out.

Wish they'd more of Nancy in the later seasons, she's another wonderful character and actor.

Also, Molly and the other 2 agents had been added to Zoey's detail, so there must have been a lot more, surely? In the club it looked like there were only those 3. Far better to gloss over it, imo. Bad enough with Jean-Luc/Paul/insert annoying Faux French actor here.

Randomly (the more work I have to do from home the more I post...) Ed and Larry. One of those running gags that never got too much. Don't think I ever figured out who was who grin

CaveMum Wed 15-Feb-12 08:10:13

Ed and Larry were fab! As were all the secretaries that, basically, saved the Senior Staff's asses in times of need - Carol, Bonnie, Ginger, even Margaret!