Manchester's Serial Killer

[WhataRacquet]

Anyone watching? Why don't they install better CCTV along the canal?

[gemdrop84]

I am, can't believe the figures, something is definitely going on and really need better cttv/police presence around these areas. It's so sad. The howling/screaming phone call had shivers down my spine.

[whatdoIget]

Oh god not watching but sounds horrific. Is it near Oxford road?

[HelenaDove]

Just started watching this on their +1

[FireCrotch]

I watched this. I live by the canal and barely a month or two goes by without someone being pulled from it. The detective made a good point. There is no guarantee of death when someone falls into a canal. If someone is pushing people in then how come no one has come forward to say they were pushed in by a person who then disappeared?

[YesEinsteinsMumDid]

What channel was this? wondering if it would be on catch up?

[FireCrotch]

It's on all 4 now. It's only on for a week or two so download it now.

[StillStayingClassySanDiego]

I read about this but didn't watch it.

Dds1-20 is at University there, I always tell him not to walk by the river in case he's pissed and falls in, this is incredibly creepy.

[Viviennemary]

I only saw it listed late last night while going through the channles. So I recorded it and just caught the end. It's truly very worrying. Those canal deaths are always put down to a young person being drunk and losing their way. But it does seem to happen with terrifying frequency.

[BrianCoxReborn]

I watched some and recorded the rest.

Is it just the section in Manchester? We had a strange death a few Christmases ago in Warrington. A young lad disappeared on his way home from a family night out. He wasn't drunk but it was snowing. He was found a few days later in Latchford Locks (part of the MSC). It was off his route home, completely wrong direction. The police decided, all evidence gathered, that he'd been suffering hypothermia and became disoriented.

The reason I started to watched this program was with him firmly in mind.

[IHaveBrilloHair]

I've got it recorded for later

[JoffreyBaratheon]

I live near York and it has been a similar story here, this past few years.

I used to live in Birmingham - more miles of canal than Venice and yet yo only rarely heard of someone falling in.

Part of my research for my own work involved looking up 19thC 'Found Drowneds' along the river, and there did indeed seem to be less of them and when it was a suicide, usually that was fairly apparent from the deceased person's behaviour prior to being found drowned.

Some of the Manchester ones are very disquieting - the one where he was on the phone to his parents, for example. I have read online of at least one where the man was seen being led towards the canal.

What gets me about the ones here in York is - they typically go in at certain spots. The UK is the most CCTV heavy country in the world and York is probaly one of the most CCTV infested cities in the UK... so why no high res cameras stationed pointing right at the points by the bridges, typically, where the victims fall in? Both sides of the river - plenty of old quayside buildings you could attach a camera to. Why has this not occurred to anyone?

[WindyMillersProbationOfficer]

There's a similar case - or series of cases - in America, the 'smiley face killers'. Lots of young men drowning in lakes and rivers across the Midwest. I would think the majority of them are accidental - young guys out drinking, get lost or overestimate their cold water swimming ability, or slip in the river whilst urinating, or something. I don't doubt that there are a few cases, both in that one and in the Manchester one, that were murder, however.

[sweetvparsley]

I'm not very internet savvy but it strikes me as a bit light-hearted of MN to write "spoilers" on the "discussions of the day" section on the right hand side. I haven't seen the programme but from what you are saying it is a documentary not a murder mystery. Should I report?

[OohMavis]

Yeah, what's with the 'spoilers' tag, MNHQ?

[TheCountessofFitzdotterel]

Joffrey, I am near York too and I agree. It would save so much heartache if there was a better chance of knowing what happened.

[MrsJorahMormont]

I thought that too about the spoilers tag! Will report.

[lionheart]

The spoilers tag is odd.

[IonaMumsnet]

Hi folks. Thanks for flagging this up. We've changed the wording now on the Discussion of the Day box. It should update soon.

[JoffreyBaratheon]

TheCountess, that's how I feel, too. Whatever is happening, at least people would then know. It does seem a bit strange that both Manchester and York police are in such strenuous denial that anything can be going on - cheaper than investigating properly Less paperwork? You have to wonder.

I have young adult sons - 2 in Manc and one who is at uni elsewhere but half the year is home in York, and they all know to start drinking near the river and move away as the evening progresses...

[misfitt]

I am not convinced at all by the serial killer angle. Rivers are dangerous especially ones which look calm but are fast flowing underneath, remember Jeff Buckley. I even ended up in one myself a long time ago due to stupidity and alcohol rather than anything malicious. I was lucky and swam to the other side.

If there was a pusher there would have been at least one or two cases whereby the person did swim to the other side and was then able to call the police but all so called push ins have resulted in death. Statistically people would have survived so we would have evidence which we do not.

I lived in Manchester, in another life, and canals are a dangerous place besides muggers there are large parts where underfoot may feel solid but then it becomes muddy or just uneven and very easy to lose footing especially as there is no lighting whatsoever. I have been on organised walks and 4.30pm in winter can be very dangerous on canal paths. There are also wider stretches which narrow, some parts dip down which in the dark could very easily by mistaken.

I also had a friend a number of years ago who lives in one of the wealthiest parts of the country as a lock keeper, so no serial killer here, but he has told me a number of horror stories about having to fish people out of the Thames and we put this down to darkness and alcohol. Also one has to factor in suicides and the fact that he has more on New Year's Day means suicide I would say for some.

Either way I am definitely not convinced there is anything more concerning happening in Manchester.

I know this is a Mum's thread and I am far from being a mother or female for that matter but came across this and felt compelled to post.

[Pipistrella]

I'm not sure about the 'current' in the canals in Manchester. AFAIK canals don't have a current unless there is a weir nearby or an actual river, and of course locks are very dangerous in themselves.

I've been on several canal holidays and was always afraid of the locks.

I also know a guy who swam across the Hudson river at night. I'm not sure how drunk exactly he was, but he's still alive and now an English teacher

It was an interesting documentary and I felt very sorry for the families. Especially where their son had clearly been very afraid when they called him. That must be an awful thing to live with.

I think extra CCTV would probably be a very good idea.

[shovetheholly]

I didn't see the show, which may have brought up new material, but I'm sure I remember hearing about this a while ago on the radio show More or Less. I think they concluded that, while the numbers of deaths seems tragically large, they are statistically about the numbers that would be expected in canals of some 175 miles in length and a population of over 2.6 million people. (Craig Jackson, an academic at Birmingham, got into some uncomfortably warm water after unguarded comments about this).

Audio here (five minutes): www.adgarrett.com/the-pusher-serial-killer-urban-myth-or-bad-stats/

[WonderingAspie]

I saw this. I felt to sorry for the parents interviewed. How heartbreaking for them, especially the ones that had been on the phone and heard him scream.

I'm not convinced it is a serial killer. I think many of them were probably accidents due to it being dark and alcohol being involved. It seems odd that some of them were there when there was no reason to be though. I bet some are muggings gone wrong as well.

[JoffreyBaratheon]

Wondering, I agree. But I do wonder if there have been over 80 (?) deaths in the past decade or so, even if "just" 5% were possible murders, that would still mean a serial killer is operating. Or several different murderers. And it's hard to tell which of those two scenarios is worse...

At what point, in terms of sheer numbers, will the police finally investigate?

I get it that here, York police force don't have the expertise or experience to pursue anything that looks like a murder as witnessed by the number of days it took them to catch a serial killer on the run... on foot, a few years back. And another more recent, high profile case. But Manchester? They should be second only to the Met, in experience, surely.

[WonderingAspie]

Yes I do find Manchester's police a bit blasé about it. It is an unusually high number of deaths so it should be looked into more thoroughly. Especially given that other places with canels, I think Birmingham was mentioned?, didn't have anywhere near the same amount.

I think it's very odd where the one who screamed went. Seemed a very unusual place for him to go and they think he could have been chased down there. The fact he didn't talk to his parents even though he answered the phone and they could hear him breathing and his screaming meant there certainly looks suspicious.