ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
This Strictly Come Dancing thing - are the judges a bit racist?(240 Posts)
So for the first time in my life, I have been exposed to this Strictly stuff. Fairly predictably it was utter crap. Brucie almost remembered all of his lines, which was good.
Then I started looking at the scores.
You tell me why this performance - Susanna Reid & Kevin dance the Paso Doble to 'Los Toreadors' - - where the non-professional swished her skirts a few times
got the same marks as this performance.
Natalie Gumede & Artem dance the Charleston to 'Bang Bang'- Where the non-professional played a blinder. That girl could seriously but seriously dance.
And then tell me that racism isn't institutional.
Ah, nennypops - I am sure that either Wuldric and/or Apostrophe will be along shortly to argue a case of sexism trumping racism there: black man is superior to white woman but white woman is superior to black woman. White man is top of the pile, surely - which is completely proved by the fact that there have been white male entrants every year of Strictly and they have always won. Er - hang on a minute...
Anyway, in the end neither the "sparky black kid" or the "skirt-swisher" won. But I am sure the fact that Abbey Clancy won is in some way racist.
Apostrophe, so how does last year's result fit your theory? The one where the more accomplished white dancer lost out in the popular vote to the black dancer?
Ooh this thread is back...
I would imagine Abbey won on the back of a second sweep of voting from Sophie voters once she was knocked out.
Judges if anything rigged it to make sure justice was done for Nat to get top three and her showdance was good.
Great british public like the J word.
Both 1st and second this year in Dancing with the stars went to black dancers Amber Riley Corbin Bleu btw and Len/Bruno judging.
Zoe did not win her series I think because of rumours she had had dance lessons prior to the training to give her an edge. Meh - heard the same for Abbey. Zoe did her showdance as a goodbye dance - had it been seen before then may have been different result but Darren vair popular that year.
Spoiler spoiler spoiler xmas strictly spoiler spoiler look away now SPOILER
will be a white xmas...
Actually his/her questions were entirely on the right track, as illustrated by the fiasco of a result. Even the pseudo-winner looked somewhat embarassed by her patently undeserved 'victory' bling.
Is this for real? Is someone really suggesting that strictly is racist because 2 dancers got the same result?
Wudric, your questions are entirely justified and your analysis spot on. This 'competition' like most of the other shows in this genre, ('The Great British Bake off', Pop idols or whatever it is that cowell creature produces) is dictated by baser instincts than fairness.
The results rarely have anything to do with who is more talented or produces the superior result/product, but are more clearly related to primitive/primal tribal affiliations. (middle class, white, working class etc. all being tribes).
The 'Strictly' audience and judges vote for people who reflect themselves, thus affording themselves the opportunity to bask vicariously in their pseudo-winner's glory, much as if they themselves had attained the victory.
So miniscule is their actual self-confidence that to recognise someone who doesn't immediately reflect themselves, as superior in talent, in their sub-conscious, would be tantamount to kicking themselves in the teeth.
They will continue to ridicule your questions, instead of conducting some serious introspection; and they will continue to make excuses for obvious injustice.
And as a result we will continue to perform at inferior levels as a country, whether it is on the sports field, in the music industry or in the political arena. Countries like the USA, that do a much better job of embracing and celebrating talent, whatever the hue of the talented person, will continue to lead where we can only follow.
It is impossible to truly improve when one doesn't recognise superior talent and instead consoles and rewards oneself with false accolades. If people could simply be more honest, recognise someone else's superior talent regardless of their race, and then work like a maniac to achieve and eventually surpass that talent, we would all be improved as a society. Instead we will remain deluded, narrow-minded, middling, unremarkable......... and bask in it.
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
More like sexist, it was and all woman final
Or maybe fattiest
I apologise for not doing the rascist thing. But I wanted to ask does anyone else think Abbey Clancy was a little drunk/inappropriate/flirty/ all over her partner last night?
Strictly has never been fair. It isn't a serious competition it's light entertainment. I don't watch it any more because I got really cross when Zoe Ball, by far the best dancer in her series, didn't win. I do know about dancing.
It's a popularity contest as far as the public go - they vote for the person they like best, not necessarily the best dancer.
As it happens the judges thought Zoe was the best but she lost the public vote. I suppose someone could cry sexism because she was beaten by a man who was not such a good dancer.
The judges vote on progress made. Natalie could already dance and Susannah (who I can't stand) couldn't. The judges feel that Susannah has made more progress so mark her highly. They judge Natalie to a harder standard because she started off far ahead of the others.
If this was a serious competition that would be unfair. But it isn't a serious competition. Someone who could already dance well will always be marked more harshly than a novice. Colour doesn't come into it.
Strictly come dancing proves Britain is still racist and ageist. Please listen to my arrangement of the Christmas Can Can I was just one of many bandleaders and we could have all performed Robbie Williams star of strictly come dancing song better than he could. We could have all performed most of the music better. Yet most aged people have to watch people on the BCC who are getting paid a fortune for not being able to do what we could all do.
Please give my love to Natalie Gumede you were the winner in my book and I know more about dance bands than all the Judges and the Producers on the BBC put together. I used to work as Peter fats Baxter.
This is Christmas music for everyone
How could Natalie did not win, she is seriously spectacular!
Nenny, are you trying to say that the judges aren't racist? That Natalie got the highest marks (as she did last week when the OP started the thread, btw)? Explain that result. Just explain it. Just explain it. Oh and then something about sparky black kids and skirt-swishing...
<bores self trying to parody tedious arguments made by OP>
Exactly what I was wondering Nenny.
No comment from OP on last night's programme, I see. You know, the one where Natalie got the highest marks.
nennypops, I do hope that you are not presenting facts which interfere with the OP's enjoyment of his/her sense of persecution?
You simply have to look at last year's final to show OP's point for the nonsense it is. Denise van Outen (white) was clearly the best dancer, but was beaten by Louis Smith (black). Was that due to racism, do you suppose?
OP - I am trained in dancing.
Susannah's Paso performance was better than Natalie's Charlston IMO.
You may, of course, have a different opinion. Each to their own.
But to try and call the markings as an example of Racism is, quite frankly, insane.
Patrick (black) was top of the leader board last week. Quite right too.
The fact that YOU think Natalie was the better dancer does not make it Racist. I suspect YOU are the Racist here.
Willem - I think that's actually a really good point. I was much more impressed by some of Natalie's earlier dances than I was by this one. And yet some of the others have just got better and better.
I actually think that a lot of the amateur dancers are improving significantly week-on-week whereas Natalie started off from being possibly the best dancer and hasn't made anywhere near the same journey of improvement.
It's not really fair anyway to judge someone who has a background in dance with those who haven't! And Natalie does whereas people like Ben, Patrick, Abbie and Susannah haven't!
OP the dancers aren't compared with each other. They're scored according to how well they perform their dance. Susannah was scored highly because she executed her dance well and with passion. It has no bearing on how Natalie was marked.
<wonders why I bothered though>
I know nothing about the technicalities of dance, but Susannah did dance better than Natalie this week.
Susannah dances every dance from the heart, with joy in her eyes and this week she matched that with (according to the expert judges) good technique. I couldn't look away whilst she was dancing. Whereas, though Natalie is usually better technically, she lacks something of that passion and warmth and this week was way off her best.
SHE WAS JOINT TOP MARK. OP you can argue that Susannah was over marked but until they start allowing the judges to give 11 out of 10 you cannot claim Natalie was undermarked. She was the best - joint best. Get over yourself OP.
oh and having read through the thread yes actually susannah did dance better, if you go on youtube and look at other charlestons done on strictly you will see that actually natalies charleston wasn't anything special, it was a good dance and nice to watch but not amazing, look at other female celebs doing paso and susannah did an amazing job!
also the top mark they can get is 40 (10 from each judge) so 1 judge didn't think both were perfect which means even if natalies dance was better (not saying it was) she couldn't have got a better score then susannah unless it was perfect which it apparently wasn't. They both did good dances that deserved good scores and it just happened that they got the same score, nothing to do with who they are, or what colour they are!
<very tired that all made sense in my head but don't know if it makes sense to read>
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