Anyone watching Growing Up Poor?(133 Posts)
On BBC3 now.
Tough times, and they are so young
Think it will be interesting to watch the boys one.
PaulMichael you say "She is 17 years old earns £55 a week and is trying hard to help herself rather from taking from the state so why shouldn't us adults give these young people a little bit of help and move them forward in the right direction??"
I don't recall why Shelby doesn't live with her parents, can someone remind me? If there was no physical abuse going on then her PARENTS are the adults who should be giving her a little bit of help and direction. These teens who argue with their parents and use it as a justification to move out and get a flat paid for by the state, should be told that they are to stay at home and work out their differences - or money should be spent on family counselling to help them all get along. I fought like cat and dog with my mum in my late teens and early 20s but I never thought of moving out and I certainly never thought of moving out with the assumption everything would be paid for by the Govt. Being a teen and yelling at your parents is part of growing up ;)
I think the gobby girl should have joined the army, she mentioned she wanted to - I had a feeling that if she'd swallow her pride and knuckle down to some good old army discipline, she'd turn into quite a good leader as she was a very strong character.
Or perhaps your parents never threw you out and expected the gov to look after you?
Oh gixer, it must be nice to be you. I suppose they do say ignorance is bliss.
gixer, what would happen to children leaving care then? in my experience, you're often left with no other option when leaving care other than to be supported till you become self sufficient.
what happens to children who are abused? those with alcoholic parents, or parents with addictions? parents who kick their kids out for a variety of reasons, such as religion, sexuality, just can't be arsed etc?
should we force them all back with their parents, effectively punishing the children for the parents mistakes?
You can send things to the girls here: http://truevisiontv.com/films/details/163/growing-up-poor-girls
Gixer. I'm afraid in some comments you have made you sound like a typical daily mail reader. In life some people because of circumstances into which they have been born, make mistakes. And to talk about abortion on here like you did was insensitive and pretty fucking dim mate. I know people who have had children very young including myself, but who's lives have NOT been ruined and have brought up very decent kids and managed to have a good education/career on top of that. The girls in the program may have not been the brightest of sparks, and I'm referring to amber in particular, but there is no doubt someone like that who is caring and does have a plan to go back to college can be a better mum than a middle class career woman in her thirties. Depends entirely on the person. I come from a middle class background myself, but having worked and lived in different areas, I have a lot of awareness, both social and cultural, about the people around me. Many other mumsnetters are the same and thank god for that. Instead of judging, how about understanding and feeling a bit of compassion towards those born into deprived backgrounds? You Gixer, have no idea how you would have behaved or what your life would have been like, had you been born into those circumstances.
I'm intrigued by the "we'll support them if they've got no choice" line - how do you police that? How much abuse is enough to allow you to leave home supported and how much do you just have to put up with? It's not exactly black sand white is ot? Certainly not clear-cut enough to legislate over.
Aside from that, I feel terrible for all of them, even Bridie. I was a complete twat at 17, I was very immature, if I hadn't had a strong family setup I'd have been all over the place. These girls have no safety net to let them make any mistakes and precious little education by the looks of it. The clue is in the title - it's not "Being Poor", it's "Growing up Poor". It's just so fucking unfair to expect so much from them when they've been given so little.
yes i think the fact that these girls are all 16/17 is proof enough that they aren't where they are through bad financial choices. as i said earlier. they are where they are because of decisions made by the adults who were supposed to be responsible for them. no-one can help where they are born, or who their parents are. some are lucky in that even with horrible starts in life, good people make sure they have the resources to lift them out of their situation. some people aren't so lucky and life (from birth) is a long hard slog! i bet all 3 of those girls believed at 5/6/7 that they would meet the man of their dreams and get married and have great jobs and families. i know i did. i was lucky enough to have good support around me and even i fucked up as a teen. i'm not where i imagined I'd be at all. and yes of course they should be pro active and take whatever job they can get but when all you have known is life on benefits, struggling and everyone around you is the same, then it might take longer for that work ethic to form in your brain. it takes something/someone to plant the seed that there is a better life out there for you if you really want it. it could take 6 months, it could take 3 years but hopefully those girls are all able to get that first step on the path to where they want to be. although i think shelby will have no problem getting there.
Gixer its a shame you only consider physical abuse as a reason someone Under 23 can get housing benefit. for 1 thing it would take time to prove. What about metal/emotional abuse or sexual abuse? What if the parents are drink/drug addicts? Or just very shit parents? What if their child moves out, lives indepently for 6 years, then gets made redundant? And if they do get pregnant, then not only the child but the grandchild could end up living in a toxic household for the first 7 years of their life.
Its great for you thay you've done so well for yourself, but surely you must know that not everyone can match your ambition and drive? Some have more, alot more have less.
Haven't read all if this as thought it would make me angry as there's a bit if argument going on. Really hard hitting programme, very well done. Shelby was heartbreaking, if only she'd been able to get a job at the end of her 6 months 'slave labour', I think it might have saved her, but now... A revisit 5 years on would be interesting/even more depressing. So sad and horrified to think of how much of our society are like these girls. What a bloody mess.
OnceUponAThyme My earlier posts said that unless there is a history of abuse, the kids should stay with their parents and have family counselling funded by the State, to help them work through their problems. I know that these kids didn't ask to be born so their life circumstances aren't their fault, the fault lies with the parents who decided to have a kid and then didn't bring it up properly whether that be due to their own life circumstances or their own upbringing. I just can't understand the urge to have a kid if you're living in grinding poverty without a bean to rub together - how unfair is that to give a new life such a shitty start? If the said parents are going to do all they can to help and motivate the kid to better itself and get the hell out of the slums then great, but if the parental mindset is just to sit around smoking cigs and complaining about their lot, giving their kids feck all motivation to be better than them, then that's when the rot starts.
Regarding my comments on abortion - if this is a forum that incorporates all aspects of having children/getting pregnant/parental choices then you can't ignore abortion and the fact it exists. How many kids have been born and then given up for adoption or put into the care system and ended up God knows where? Wouldn't it have been fairer to not go ahead with the pregnancy at all? Why go through with the pregnancy if you know you have no intention of keeping the child?
I just finished watching this morning...it was utterly heartbreaking. I was in tears watching Shelby sitting on her sofa delighted to be sipping her homemade soul after months with no cooker. Ad what a reality check the "work placement" was.....God knows how long on £55 a week and still no job at the end of it.
Have just been on NetMums and read the thread there too....people equally shocked and one or two thick individuals saying "but they could all afford cigs and booze" seemingly unaware from their charmed existences that addiction doesn't care if you are rich or poor.
Those work placements are evil, when the prog said she'd not got a job after 6 months I bet it was because the shop just got another person at the same rate for another 6 months rather than take Shelby on properly and pay her a decent wage. You partially can't blame the businesses as they are all suffering the squeeze too, but it was damn unfair. I was on a YTS scheme for a year at £28 a week and was supposed to get a job at the end of the scheme but they laid me off - and probably got in another YTS girl for more cheap labour.
We must be the same age Gixar...I did YTS too....yes...not good is it?
Unreal when I think back, £28 for the first few months then £35 for the rest or something. Now it's all this "Internship" thing where some people work for free, so desperate are they to get experience, and they get soooo exploited. Why did we adopt the American phrase "Internship" anyways?? What's wrong with "work experience"??
Gixer77 your attitude is absolutely disgusting and encapsulates everything that is wrong with british society. Who deluded you that because your an 'up standing' member of society you have the right to say these Young women should abort there babies. The fact you feel the need to tell us how hard working you are is simply your means of justifying your comments because if you'd have grown up with drug abusing parents, who you've never lived with or given you any support of emotional or financial support you'd still be the model citizen wouldn't you? As for this under class you talk of...who do you think creates it...divide and conquer, keep them all fighting with each other and they won't realise if we all stood up together every one could get a fair slice. Your comments have really inspired me that people like my self need to keep fighting of the suppressed
If I grew up with drug abusing parents and didn't have a bean to rub together and had more emotional issues than a Jeremy Kyle show I would be stupid if I then brought a child into this world. A lot of these people simply can't or won't help themselves. You can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink. I would help the Shelbys of this world who had that spark of wanting to get up and do something, but the Bridies of this world just can't be helped.
The Bridies of this world need military discipline, they need to be broken right down and have all the damage done to them in their formative years by useless parenting destroyed. Then they need to be built back up again with a sense of self respect, self worth, and respect for their peers. On a foundation like that they could go on to achieve so much. When Bridie has a child, which she will one day, do you really think that kid will grow up to have a decent life with a mother that has such a stinky attitude?
I only express disbelief at those in poverty who don't help themselved purely because I was motivated by fear of poverty to make sure I always had work and money in my pocket. Life isn't a dress rehearsal so I wasn't going to sit around living a mediocre life with a head full of dreams that I could never afford to turn into reality.
In an ideal world there would be counselling and treatment for all these kids but it's just not affordable. And the more of these kids that are born and brought into the world by horrendous "parents", the worse it gets. It will take generations to undo the damage done by poor parenting and Government/society cock-ups.
I lived on a dodgy estate for 5 years and have pretty much seen it all, including a "mother" yelling at her 5 year old "you're p!ssing me off now, f**king shut up!!" Two nice young boys who were 11 when I moved in and who offered to wash my car for me (which they did, very nicely) but grew up into monsters and 3 years later one of them vandalised the very same car twice, and the other tried to break into my shed. So forgive me if I'm losing faith here.....
I totally disagree that her attitude did stink, your only basis for that is that she wouldn't take a paper round..which is totally implausable in her current situation regarding how benefits get affected etc. You've already stated that the workforce programme is exploitation.. A paper round pays £20 a week, approx £2 an hour to line someone elses pockets..theres no pride in that and its not going to get her anywhere. I think Bridie is more intelligent than you and is not willing to be exploitated? She recognised the fact that her own actions had got her in to the situation she was in, an attribute many 'well formed' adults don't have. Yours and other peoples attitudes towards these marginalised groups keep them there. My ideal world is very different to yours. Mine is one where there is no need for counselling because we all stand together and break the cycle by not casting judgement
Lose faith in the system, don't lose faith in the kids
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