Doctor Who Geeks , new thread!(637 Posts)
Hope no one else hasn't started one
cakebot River got to 1938 but the TARDIS couldn't. She said that it was because the vortex manipulator could sneak through
It may be that there isn't a full story and we're just reading too much into stuff.
This is why I hated English Lit - pulling apart a book that was written just to be enjoyed.
I had tears in my eyes at the end of this episode. One of the very best for a long time. I will miss Amy and Rory
Soup, yes I feel exactly the same but couldn't articulate it until you just said it1 Overanalysis of entertainment just makes it unejoyable IMO. My love of literature was nearly destroyed by my English degree- it was ages before I read a proper novel afterwards. I think Doctor Who is the same. I think you have to suspend disbelief and take it for what it is- entertainment. Not for everybody. I think MS has been a revelation in the role, but I know others don't like him. Practically, I don't think we'll get another 'older' Doctor. MS and the other actors have said that it takes over their lives to the exclusion of everything else, so it's more likely to be a young man's gig. DT had his kids almost immediately after leaving the show.
Exit Amy and Rory went to school together, so they were the same age, but she just outlived him when they were both sent back. Also, because of the no dates thing, maybe he wouldn't know where in time they were. I think it was a fixed point because once you read about your future it has to happen (probably made up by The Moff to explain the plot) so once her name was on the gravestone, he couldn't go back and get her, or maybe they just wanted to live their lives in peace, in an ordinary day and didn't want him popping in and out of their lives any more.
The Angels don't always fix it that you die at the same point you were taken - we assume that the detective was taken the same day he saw himself die, and presumably Rory was intended to be taken the same day. Billy Shipton died the same day, but several hours later than the time he was taken and Kathy was taken in 2007 (at least that was when Blank was shown) but died in 1987.
CAKE - I had given this a lot of thought whilst mucking out the horse. I presume that once they have 'died' then he can not go back to them later than the age they were when they were with him when they 'died'. Plus, in last week's episode Amy and Rory were toying with the idea of stopping travelling with the Doctor and staying put to get on with their lives, so maybe that is what happened. They lived happily ever after in New York.
Hi, I've come really late to this as I only watched the episode last night and I don't have time to read through the full thread to see if my answer is there so am looking for help here!
Are Amy and Rory stuck together in that building with the angels hanging around all the time and periodically bumping them back to a different point in time? If so, that sounds a bit shit. At least they have each other but - just the two of them for 60 years? I know Rory's already waited for a couple of millenia but it wouldn't go too well if that was DH and I... This doesn't feel very happy to me but Amy claimed to be in the epilogue so I feel I must be missing something - am I?
Derek, Don't worry, the apartment block disappeared in the Paradox, so they just went back in time to whenever, still in New York and lived a long and happy life together, according to the afterword in the book. Maybe River takes back a lottery ticket as well, so they can live in luxury ( and hopefully not live through the Great Depression or something!) Shame they didn't say anything else on their gravestone about Melody or any other children they may have adopted. Maybe I'm thinking about this too much...
Maybe the gravestone will be revisited and contain more information in future episodes - like the dates they died.
can we discuss whether they couuld leave 'the room' or not? am having intense discussion with friend, I maintain they were together and happy and lived out their lives peacefully, Amy becoming a publisher etc. He maintains they were stuck in the room and would have grown to loathe each other. (romance is apparently dead!)
The room didn't exist after they jumped off the building causing the paradox.
True romantic your friend!?
thank you! i knew theer was something, I've just been allowing myself to get confused by paradoxes!
well, absolutely. as if Rory and Amy would hate each other! (apart from when house olded Rory in 'the doctors wife' and that wasn't real! (because everything else is!)
as far as I am concerned they lived in a beautiful brownstone building in New York. Sometimes they would go to central park to skate on a Sunday afternoon, other weekends they might go to Coney Island, or perhaps go north to Vermont to see the autumn leaves. They enjoyed salt beef sandwiches, and doughnuts. Of course they had the occasional tiff, but their love for each other was as strong when they died as the day that Amy ignored that selfish oaf of a doc, and went after Rory where she belonged!
(Do I make myself clear?)
Yes that's exactly what happened! The Doc must have been like a spare part by the end- they just wanted to be alone together- The postscript probably said "Look love, just bugger off and leave us alone, for Gods sake- you're supposed to be shagging our daughter and replenishing the Timelord species, not hanging around here with us!'
Not only did I have to miss the live playout, my recording didn't work! Finally caught up on i player though.
I agree that I wasn't as moved by it as I have been by other companion departures. I do think it would be impossible to write a time travelling series without several paradoxes everywhere, so I don't give anyone a hard time for that. I did think the angels were brilliant in Blink but am not that scared of them now, the shock factor has gone.
Anyone else reminded of "The Gift" (Buffy, S5) at a certain Amy-Rory point? (just in case it's churlish not to spoiler alert decade-old sci fi)
I would like to agree with Cakebot about over analysis spoiling what is supposed to be entertainment BUT I feel that we were lead that way by SM and maybe now he wants to go back to a simpler DW?!
I may have to change my name after 10 years on MN.....
visularts, I love what you said, and I feel like crying tears of joy(blub,blub...)
I've read most of this thread and my brain started melting so I'm just going to forget it all and be happy with visualarts' lovely description of A&R's happy ever after. I am sad though that River can't have long left now she is a professor, and also thinking back to the episode in the library, pretty gutted for her! She dies to save the doctor who has no idea who she is, so no loving farewell, plus wasn't there some weird thing that she was 'saved' by the computer and lived a sort of dream life in a suburban semi with 3 kids in a scenario originally envisaged by Donna...?! I can't remember the details and I didn't care at the time, not knowing who she was, but now it seems a pretty sad ending for her. Anyone seen that episode recently, am I remembering it correctly?
Also, I was sad at the end, just before Amy disappeared, she called River 'Melody' and held out her hand to her, and River called her Mother. Sob. Altho I stil agree with whoever said above, I can't believe Amy let her go when she was a baby
PS not that there's anything wrong with the 3 kids scenario just that it won't be as much fun as being a glamorous timetraveling professor detective type with killer lipstick!
Biscuit I think River was reunited with her spaceship crew in the "virtual reality",
Just caught up with this thread!
I thought the Doctor went back to little Amy waiting in the garden once before, or did I imagine it? I remember him finding her asleep on her suitcase, saying "come on you" and picking her up. Then she was in bed asleep and he was telling her as story. (Wasn't it something to do with her remembering him at the wedding so that he would exist again or something?)
Anyway...how come this time he went back and she was still awake? Did he go back just a little bit earlier before she fell asleep?
And, just to be pernickety, was I the only one who was madly irritated by Amy's glasses? She needs to find a better optician who can sell her a pair that will fit properly .
Yes, he went back twice - the first time he went back, (at the end of series 5, after he'd steered the Pandorica into the heart of the exploding TARDIS, to allow its restoration field to touch every point in space and time and reset the universe, and when his life was 'rewinding') she was asleep. He put her in her bed and told her to remember him, old and new at the same time, in the TARDIS, which was borrowed and very very blue, before he went into the crack in her wall to finally allow it to close and so disappeared from history.
At her wedding a mysterious woman left her a blank old blue book and walked past the window - River, and her diary, now blank because the Doctor had never existed. The diary and the memory of something old, something new, something borrowed, something blue, helped her to remember the Doctor and bring him back.
The second time, from the Doctor's point of view was after Amy and Rory had gone, but from Amy's point of view before she fell asleep.
In fact, if the universe wasn't actually reset until the last crack was closed (the one in Amy's room, which the Doctor went through) that meant that the Doctor's first visit didn't happen, so unless he went back to talk to Amelia again, she wouldn't remember him, so he had to really....
If it helps Biscuit, I read somewhere that Moffat envisaged River being in a romantic relationship with all her spaceship crew and then she's reunited with them at the end, so she still gets sexual adventures.
Here's the reference! doctorwho.livejournal.com/7125149.html
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