Mumsnet Talk

Anyone watching?

Yes on my small, modest tv!!! They have no money but they have wide screen tv!

Yes, which they put pound coins into in order to watch it.

Just turned on.

Yes. Its bloody sad.
Who knows where they got the TV, maybe when times were better.

sod the tv, omg that poor little mites sore legs.....

I got the impression it was rented.
However it sounds like that little girl with eczema was skipping meals and her mum could afford highlights and false nails
So difficult

I know awful legs. Poor thing. The kids are gorgeous!

Yeah I was a bit at that. But this wee Scottish girl...

isthismadness... I didn't catch that, did she say that?

she's really sweet!

Interesting that the poverty line is classed as a household income of less than £1,000/mth after housing costs for a household of one adult and two children. I was surprised at that.

She is lovely. That mould is horrible.

It does sound as if their parents have told them what to say a bit. That's just the impression I get.

whats the deal with mould? Housing issue isn't it? not poverty per se

wow judgey! maybe a friend does her nails/hair now and then. jesus

These little girls are so wise, what they have to deal with, that bathroom ceiling. Its disgraceful. I hope samantha Cameron is watching.

Don't understand why Sam's dad needs a job to fit around childcare when he has an 11 yr old and an older child.

wont the camerons be watching newsnight on the other side, whilst doing some kind of timed feed?

I had a HA flat with dreadful mould and it was a newbuild. In the ten years I was there it never went.

I feel very sorry for little Sam. Looks like his dad is not good at coping.

It's easy to judge about someone having a large tv. But the TV was rented - £1 for each six hours of watching it. All the appliances were rented.

That's the difference. If I suddenly lost my job, had no money, and needed a new TV, I would just ask around, friends, family, etc. and somone would have an old one they would happily give me. But these people don't have that choice.

Both Sam and his sister are very eloquent.

Imabee noone who wasn't too poor to live anywhere else would choose to live in a mould infested flat. Not sure what distinction you are making.
It's disgusting that local authority accommodation can make children ill, and they're expected to just carry on living there.

They are obviously sweet bright children. They need someone to clean up and decorate.

They're all particularly eloquent, I think.

I think also you can look too hard at what they DO have, the dirt and the mess - not realising that often depression accompanies living in poverty....

MollieO you're right, and so self-aware. Can't help noticing a certain difference between those two and the bradford kids

just turned this on, where is it?

all over the place I think - first were from bradford, second scottish, third leicester I think, not sure about these girls though.

well, exactly - there are a lot of people living in poverty who are depressed, and probably grew up in poverty too, so have few coping skills.

I used to teach children like this. Very sad.

state of that room! those poor kids not even curtains at the window

Different places, I think. Some in Glasgow.
Not much point decorating a wall that's covered in mould, is there.

I assume there must be other issues rather than childcare for why Sam's dad isn't working. I think both Sam and his sister will survive their childhood and succeed. Not sure about the others.

wow - self-fulfilling prophesies at that age - that's a bit depressing.

I used to visit houses like that daily in my old job, i forgot how depressing it was

sam is in leicester in either braunstone of saffrom lane by the look of it. the girls are in bradford and paige are in the gorbals (sic) in glasgow.

this is bloody heartbreaking - the older sister talking about trying to kills herself because everything was so awful. fucking hell

I feel guilty about what my ds & dd have - how can we help ?

Aw bless her cottons when she saw that house!

I was brought up by my widowed mother. She was very unhappy and had very little money, but our house was clean and we had wallpaper and curtains.

Look how happy she is!

But yes, someone should sit down every fecking MP and MAKE them watch this.

Yes I have done youth work in London and met these children. Children with 100 year old eyes, a bitter sadness in their faces. My most moving movement was with a very difficult little boy who spat and swore all the time, would not sit down or look me in the face. He had no self-esteem. I got him doing jigsaw puzzles and while he concentrated, we chatted. On my last day he gave me a note. 'I love you, miss.' I gave him a hug and I swear he didn't want to let go. Broke my heart.

igggi, i'm not making any distinctions, i am very aware that poverty equals lack of choice but the blame lies with councils and housing associations surely? Mould is not a thing that happens to people when they are poor.

you cant its a nasty circle that is so hard to break, spent years trying and working my arse off.
I dont understand how it gets this bad? I missed the begining, have they ended up like this because they spent ther money badly or just that the beniefts systems lets some families down in the worse way

i reconize those old head on young sholders, god sometime i miss my job and these wonderful little kids

God it's awful isn't it ? I want to get my kids up to watch it ..they have no idea how lucky they are ... I grew up in a home with very little money - but we had beds and bedlinen and always enough to eat .... It's horrible to thin of those kids tonight .. In those rooms .....

And omg that poor child's eczema.... I just want to go and bring one of them home

Does anyone know who to donate to .. To help children in poverty like this ?

why is Sam staying inside, go outside lad, we had little money growing up, and we spent everyday outside in summer. And for love of god why no sheets on his bed, that just breds germs and makes him sick

Maybe try the Child Poverty Action Group Duritzfan?

banardos, who sadly have just lost loads of funding from goverment

imabee - its like this, what goes hand in hand with poverty is a complete lack of advocacy and or opportunities. if your house is mould infested and you live in council/housing ass accomodation then you can complain to them. they will most likely send someone to look, patch it up and fob you off. unless you can scratch together a deposit and rent privately then you are stuck, even if you could its too risky to leave a permanent tennancy. you can go on a waiting list for a larger property if you have more/older kids or you can apply for an exchange scheme but this is a dead end if your place is falling apart. mocing on to advocact, the reason that most services are taken up by the middle classes is because we are generally resourceful and stroppy and know how to lobby the council/write letters/not take no for an answer. if you do not have those tools then what can you do?

I'm sure I wasn't as aware of jobs and politics as these (and my own) DC's are today. Yes, it does seem like they're reiterating what their parents have said to them, but they've absorbed it, understood it and are obviously in agreement.
Why does Sam's dad not have CHB through yet??

Just throwing money at the parents is not enough though is it... It goes a lot deeper than that.
How about giving all children a better education?? Giving people more support and living skills before things get this bad, better housing, etc.

These children have huge amounts of knowledge and their parents dont hide much from them in my experience. My parent hid the fact of how little we had growing up so i wouldnt worry, but these parents dont.

Someone I know had no tax credits for 8 weeks!! how they think you can live is madness

Providing jobs and cheaper child care would be enough, I think. Oh, wait - the govt have shafted us on that one, as the public sector's lay-offs will all be contributing to the unemployment figures soon.

I grew up in one of those flats in Glasgow and they have always been riddled with damp. My first son spent the first three years of his life in one of them and he is the only one out of my children to have asthma. We can all moan about the Camerons but most of these estates have always been in Labour councils and they have always turned a blind eye to the problem. Everytime we complained about the damp they used to pretend it was condensation so they didn't have to sort out the problem.

What I want to know is why haven't the school bought that poor little lad a school shirt?

And what can we do to help? There must be an organisation out there where our money will go to the front line and not on admin!

Wow really less than £1000 a month after housing costs. I'm a 1 adult 4 children household full time work and don't have £1000 a month after rent paid I wouldn't consider myself in poverty though?
I only caught a small part of the programme I get quite cross watching them usually as invariably you have a family worthy of an article in the daily mail!

I assume there must have been a form to fill in that wasn't or he maybe didn't know he needed to do that.

When I was unemployed I was amazed at how little I had to live on. £65 per week plus council tax benefit.

thats the thing, its a terrible circle, unless someone teaches you who to fight with for your stuff, how to budget, how to make healthy cheap meals, NOT to borrow from the provey man, and how to find things for free, you are buggered.

The children seem well educated actually. It's not schooling they are lacking. They need an adult to clean and decorate - to give them a better environment.

afaik the shit council flats date back to the 60's and Tee Dan Smith (sic) and his cheapo social housing con. There was a good doc back along on the bbc about how social housing has changed over the last century and pretty much concluded that high rise flats are the root of all evil in terms of poverty and anti social behaviour and crime. i can well believe it..

wonder if sam's mum is watching?

If they are living in damp THERE IS NO POINT IN DECORATING!

Sam is such a good looking bright little thing

What exactly is meant by housing costs though? And how the hell did that woman leave her kids like that? Fair enough if she wanted out of the marriage, but I cannot understand women who can leave their kids - my mum was one of them, and the only reason why I understood her leaving was because she thought I was better off with my dad as she was an alcoholic.
Oh, and those flats are gone then!

lisad123 - yes agree but also add traching people how to deal with endless misery and low self esteem caused by having to count every penny forever.

They are not all living in damp. Not caring for your house at all makes it all worse. Those poor children.

i wonder why Sam's sister doesn't have a weekend job?

Omg -the mum left on his birthday -

Poor Sam is clearly an intelligent child, as is his sister, but he's being ground down by bullying at school. Surely there should be some system where schools can take donations of second hand good condition uniform to give to kids like Sam. It looks like his dad is making an effort to cook healthy meals for the family and at least there's food in the cupboards. And he's made him a birthday cake!
It's so sad that the little girl in Bradford can't see any future for herself that doesn't involve living in poverty.
Makes me so grateful for what we've got.

Mollie - maybe all the richer kids get the Saturday jobs...

Have you been listening...sometimes these kids go without lunch. Decoration imm sure comes after that. If you had ever lived like that you would understand that its not just about cleaning, Once you hit a low and stop caring its not easy you know.

I do kind of get why the houses are so manky , when we moved into this house we were all gung ho with the decorating, when it got to a liveable standard, we just kind of stopped. There is always something more pressing to spend spare cash on, school shoes, christmas blah blah and after a while you don't even see it.

Add in depression or stress and it can easily deteriorate, we don't even have the excuse of surviving on income support (although it's not as bad as that). My kids do have bed linen and what not but we still don't have carpets upstairs, and the ones we got for downstairs could do with replacing tbh.

It's just all going to get worse in the coming years isn't it.

Wow - 11% in the next 3 years? THAT's disgraceful.

very true sungirltan, I have done a few budgets for families befor ena dfound they have enough to live on, but then because of the provy man and owing money and the fact benieifts come in at stupid times, weekly, four weekly, monthy!! I mean hows anyone meant to budget with that crap
I have spent years counting the pennies, only having £20 left a month, wondering weather to buy milk OR bread, raiding the penny jar to buy basics
Its only in the last 2 years I can relax a little more, but still not great

mollie0 - maybe she's tried.

Frillyflower - eh?

Don't they need dry walls first?

ffs!

Oh no not adele backing track

I know benefits are pitiably low but is it really so low that you can't give your children anything for lunch?

lisa - i can well imagine. i've done enough budgets where the fmaily doesnt really know whats even coming in or going out its so confusing that they just sort of lurch between 20 here and 60 there and they to get their heads around it. you cant even do an you get x monthly and need to pay y because x is spread over 4 weeks and hasnt all arrived by the time you have to pay y.

and who would give her a saturday job? her clothes dont fit, her hair is terrible and she clearly is depressed
Decorating isnt possible for most, it costs, and the choice is food OR paint, not a tough decision.
Im looking round my little 2 bed houise and am very grateful.

Again...Have you been watching.

The simple answer is yes. In school holidays they often miss meals.

frilly - lisa and i can probably explain that.....

No frillyflower, mum can go without lunch, like mine did and we ate a concoction of flour, water and salt pancakes. She did have a clean house though, apart from the damp!

Can't believe that the UK is ranked 18 out of 22 European countries for child poverty. Just proves how vast the gap is between rich and poor, and the cuts will just widen that even further.

i was thinking with the older sister that she probably needs to help dad at home and or she can't afford the bus fare into town to find a job. its sad though because she might flourish a bit with the self esteem and social support of working in a cafe or something

most just see money go in and go straight out again. They are forever robbing peter to pay paul.
Yes sometime even food is a problem. I have not eaten to make sure my kids are fed but only a few times when things went very wrong but think most do it daily

Oh yes igggi, I think it's fairly recently I just lost all hope of ever living a better life, it's very depressing.

meanwhile how likely is it that sam's sister will stay in education do you think?

if you have 4 children that are used to warm meals daily at school and suddenly you have them home for 6 weeks, and have to find breakfast luch AND dinner. Thats 28 extra meals a week!!

that was so moving.
particularly as it was the chldren themselves talking. i read the article in saturday's guardian.
one parent had approx 108 per week, 35 for gas 35 for elec and the rest for everything else. imagine that. food, clothes. not a lot. and presumabley the reason the gas and electricity are so expensive is becuase they are key meters.

Condensation causes mould, but it isn't what's technically called 'damp' so council/landlords can blame the problem on lifestyle. Ie. drying clothes indoors, not opening windows enough etc.
When it's generally a lack of ventilation and insulation in the property. Which will cost them more than they can recoup in rent increases so they don't do it.

If you have the resources to find out how best to deal with condensation issues, the cure doesn't help either, opening windows and keeping the heating on does help but bumps the heating bill up hugely. Less money to spend on other essentials.

Our last house had some pretty bad mould problems. We have the jammiest luck that allowed us to move to somewhere healthy and affordable.
We would have been looking at a 50% increase in rent if we hadn't have dropped on.
The neighbours had lived with worse condensation and mould problems for nine years before they managed to get a council place.

And just that one aspect of living with limited means is utterly miserable.

Ime most of the richer kids don't have Saturday jobs as they have the bank of mum and dad to live off. I was surprised she didn't mention trying to get a job when speaking about her dad's job hunting.

I just watched this and it really says something when moving to Drumchapel made that little girl's 'dreams come true'.
Those flats in the Gorbals are uninhabitable and NO ONE should be living in them. That is a disgrace and the GHA (Glasgow Housing Association) should be ashamed of themselves.

I don't blame any of the parents for not cleaning/decorating- I'd be too depressed to do any of that if I was forced to live like that. I think it's the hopelessness of ever having any chance of escaping which is the real nail in the coffin. Most people can cope with short term poverty but when the only route out of poverty is death what kind of life is that?

I think it's naive to think that having a nicely decorated house really makes any difference to the situations that these kids find themselves in. People become so desperate and tired of the daily struggle that decorating is just not important. It's awful to see the conditions that councils expect people to live in - that mould in the flats was truly shocking.
It does put things into perspective - we're economising at the moment as I'm only on SMP after 6 months maternity leave but our economising bears no similarity to the millions of people who live hand to mouth.

£70 a week for gas and electric? Even if it's on a meter that's over £300 a month. Who on earth spends that much on their monthly heating bills?

people on a meter who have damp problems!
Mine is £200 a month

MollieO - IME richer kids do seem to look for work as they have the motivation and encouragement of their parents to do so, plus they're used to seeing work as a necessity in life.

i am pretty sure thats what i read. i assumed because of the sky high charges of having a key meter? will hunt out the article.

When I was growing up in the 1980's in similar accommodation our gas/elec was around £300 per month. The only heater was in the living room and we didn't have any costly electrical items such as a washing machine. We always queried the bill, but like the damp we were always fobbed off!

and the very thing that makes me angry is unless you are in credit you cannot come off the meter [angry its round and round

here

I thought there was a move to ensure key meters costs were better regulated.

As for Saturday jobs I guess today's rich kids are different from the ones I was at school with. Very few bothered to get jobs then.

the thing is no amount of money will make this better because the adults arent educated in how to manage money and housing and the access to the knowledge most of us take for granted.
They are partly to blame themselves but as communities we let these young children down, who grow into these adults.
Where I used to work we had a family tree type thing, and i could tie about 85% of the families I was working with to this tree, which was done 20 years before

rich kids dont need job, middle class and well educated lower classes want jobs, poor kids are too depressed and have such low self esteem they cant see the point

so sad, I have struggled financially in past but ds never had to go without thankfully. The main thing that has lifted us out of poverty is because DS has a disability so we now get higher tax credits and dla, before that life was so much harder. Really felt for the children.
I would like to donate some of his no longer played wih toys and his bike when outgrown to such children. heartbreaking and they were so lovely the children.
would love to buy sam a new uniform. would be nice if a company like butlins could donate a holiday plus travel expenses to them.
was lovely to see paige's family rehoused and i hope courtney's does too. shocking that in this day and age property can be so mouldy.
I really hope Sam's sister stays in education and does well. She has a good heart and seemed a bright girl.

I'm really not prone to crying at TV programmes but dear God this was quite sad and shocking. At the end where the little girl said she didn't want to grow up. She thought her future was mapped out for her already?

What brilliant articulate children. I also wondered why Sam's school couldn't do something to help him with his uniform. So sad when he said that he would never have a wife as she'd leave him. I was left wondering if this is going to set his expectations for adult relationships.

All this when I'd just switched off my £230 iron. How many meals would that provide.

I feel quite shaken up by this programme.

We used to get local companies donating presents at xmas for our families and was so nice giving them to famlies knowing that come xmas morning something would be under the tree. It was one of the nicest parts of what was a very depressing job.
I want to buy Sam his uniform for the rest of his school life tbh. I hated going to school in terrible uniforms, and dh said tonight he was picked on for wearing trousers too short.
There is a scheme im sure about spondering a child in the UK

i woudl be very keen to sponsor a child in this country.

This is all so heartbreaking. My mum brought up 7 of us on very little money.... we ate a lot of potatoes, beans and rice. We were picked on at school because of the clothes we wore, the home haircuts, etc. Is there a scheme to sponsor a child? Is donating to Barnardos the only thing we can do?

I'm not sure how I felt about this programme.

Well all I can say is that those earning a good salary should not be allowed to keep their council house so that those less fortunate can have a better standard of living!

Is that 1k after housing (for 1adult 2 kids) costs figure really right?

Seems a lot to me especially when it puts us into that bracket (until recently) and I thought we were pretty lucky

It was shocking and made me cry. I too would love to sponsor a child in this country. Christ when I think of all the sh$t that my dc have. I have a playroom bursting at the seems with a telly and computer that nobody uses. Actually feel quite ashamed.

Fimbo same here but will be finding a way to donate directly if I can.

Per the thread on AIBU - find it really bad that those with the least money get the least benefit. If you have internet and a bit savvy you can get good deals on gas & elect - those that can't have direct debits etc just pay way over the odds - that is just so wrong.

SexyDom, that's the thing. Technically, we're pretty skint at the moment, but I'm not from a poor family. I'm educated, I'm optimistic, I know my rights, I know the options, I've got internet access, and I'm quite happy to use free services with no sense of stigma. (SureStart centres seem to be full of yummy mummies round here)

I am still in a state this morning. The bit where the little girl was talking about her birthday, and the older sister told her not to waste her time thinking about it as it would come to nothing. The world weariness in that face. The resignation and hopelessness in an eight year old. It is like the Middle Ages.

I too am still concerned.
I'm looking for work and feel depressed too, but I have riches compared to the families.
I can't even blame the Tories!
However, the Tories can do something about it, go after all that tax that Vodafone, Tory Lord Non-doms etc avoid. Stop cutting grants to charities who are working with the poor.
It would be good to see the same head of steam about this as has been about children's sexy clothes...........

According to those statistics we are in poverty now, but we have very few outgoings and we manage, but we've been quite close to the breadline a few times. I can't imagine what it'd be like living like that all the time.

Going to watch this later. I've actually told DH not to watch as it is very likely to upset him - he grew up like that. Although in his case mum actually was largely to blame - spending all the money on designer clothes and posh food for herself, leaving the DCs starving and bullied for their clothes. DH was called Stig of the Dump at school.

Bloody hell, I never cry at stuff that's on the telly, but this programmed has left me shaken and upset. I can't stop thinking about that poor little boy in his sister's blouse and torn trousers. I would love to sponser him and make sure he has proper uniform, shoes, haircuts and birthday/christmas presents. I didn't have much growing up and we often went without, but it wasn't as bad as that. The bloody mother should be ashamed of herself. I bet she doesn't pay a penny in child support Fancy walking out on them all. Even if she was being abused she could easily have kept in touch with her children and be trying to provide for them.

Watched it on iplayer this morning and cried and cried. This should be compulsory viewing for everyone in this country.

I was watching it thinking if they had made it black and white it would have looked just like a historical documentary from the 60s, like Cathy Come Home era. Nothing's changed. The families have big TVs, but the housing quality is just as bad as the slums were, the diet's just as bad, their health isn't much better, and I bet their teeth are just as bad.
But more than anything it was the kids' faces, they just had this look about them that you shouldn't see these days.

Sponsor a child in this country is a brilliant idea. Now, who's going to organise it?

I was on metres when I was in council. They bought in key metres. Then all the local shops stopped filling them.

I had to walk miles (in inner london) to fill them up. I could never afford to put more than a fiver at a time on them so couldnt stock up.

It was a really anxious time. The DCs were very small and I was on my own. I had to bundle them up in this manky old tandem buggy and push them for a very long way whatever the weather. Sometimes we got there and the paypoint would be shut. I would then have to find another one.

I know its not the same as going down the mines or living in Africa but at the time it was all so grindingly hard and scary.

I would buy the kids clothes from jumble sales (no cheap supermarket stuff then) but you had to buy what there was. You couldnt just go and get a coat or shoes. Shoes were the worst. They were dearer then than now and there were no cheap outlets.

I always try and remember what it was like. If I forget I might become complacent.

The reasons for poverty and many and complex.

I may be wrong - someone can correct me if I misuse this term - but does anyone think there is a fair bit of cognitive disonence about when it comes to poverty?

I mean - well they smoke, they get their hair done, its down to the bad managment of the parents etc?

There are some crappy parents who would piss away any amount of money they were given but I dont feel IME that is the case in the majority.

I work with families living in extreme poverty. In one room, no money, no education. Its horrible.

SORRY I didnt mean on this thread particularly - I mean generally. I have heard it and seen it on so many forums.

Sorry didnt mean to accuse everyone here

I felt so much for Steve in Leicester. yes, his house was a mess, but he had worked so hard to keep the children together and was doing his best. I understand he's recently had a heart attack from stress? Not surprised Particularly poignant too as little Sam reminded me so much of my ds11 and dh comes from leicestershire so knows the estate well

Surely there must be a charity who do sponsoring in the uk?

I just want to do SOMETHING about this. I know it's only a small thing but ... I work for M&S ... we already encourage people to recycle clothes to Oxfam but I don't see why we can't support some kind of national free school uniform scheme. Some way that people can take their old uniform and drop it off in store, we add our unsold and old designs to that and it gets sent to schools. They then have it available for the children on free school meals to get for free. If it is easily available via the school then the parents haven't got to go hunting for it. I'd be happy to donate my son's uniform to someone who really needs it. His school has a uniform sale every so often but I don't think it's going to the people who need it most. Sam going to school in his sister's blouse just broke my heart.

Would anyone consider taking uniform in if there was a scheme like this? I am going to run the idea past some people at M&S who may like it. Just wondering if there would be support for such a thing?

I am such a wuss.

I didnt watch it.

Reading the blurb about it in the paper made me cry

Bet DC and his cronies werent bloody watching

Do barnardos/nspcc et al do a UK child sponsorhsip scheme????

I would be glad to donate uniform. My dcs get new uniform every year, but their old stuff is still fine and I only get rid of it because they've grown out of it.

I hate this country sometimes. People shouldn't have to live like this. I agree with giving aid to countries overseas, but shouldn't we be trying to help our citizens first? I feel tormented by the thought of little Sam with his trousers. It was like something from The Road To Wigan Pier, only that was written 80 odd years ago. Nothing bloody changes does it? I bet all these rich footballers and celebs don't sponser children and there's people here with not much more than these families, perfectly willing to give what they have to help fellow human beings.

I'm up for helping,Roo.
Please let me know what I can do

mrsdevere, I agree with you.

Also so much easier to blame the parents and lay it all at their feet than accept that somehow in this country there are children living lives we thought had only been lived in the past. And that society, ie all of us, have failed them. Who advocates for them?

There was another thread on here recently that I read which was v interesting and a poster referred to the Swiss Cheese Theory. Swiss cheese is full of holes but because the holes are randomly spaced the structure remains stable. But if those holes were to all line up the structure would collapse.

I wonder if that's what's happened to some of these families.

I am still unsettled by that programme today. Another poster said they felt ashamed and I feel similarly too.

I just did a search for how to sponser a child in the UK, but the search just comes up for overseas sponsership. I didn't realise child poverty was so bad in this country. Who organises sponsership for kids in this country, which organisation does it?

I have recorded this to make sure my ridiculously pampered children sit and watch it and realise quite how lucky they are. It's a shame it was on so late, and I hope it gets re shown and an update given on the families at some point. It was all the more effective with little commentary - the children really said all there was to say. So moving and an eye opener

georgie22 - yes this is true - i went to private school but i worked in john lewis at the weekend 16 - 18. pretty much because i could and spend the money on whateveri wanted (it was extremely well paid but i didn't realise that until i was older. i was a confident and well spoken 16 year old with nice clothes for an interview etc - it was easy for me.

Roo55 that's a good idea, happy to support, fingers crossed that M&S will go for it

MNHQ - would you look into this as a next cause to support - sponsor a child in the UK?

PS I did sob away and still am when thinking about those beautiful kids

deux - it made me sick too - just glancing at the possesions we have that i can see just next to the tv made me squirm with shame. tbf though dh has donated long term to barnardos for years and refuses to deviate from his chosen charity (dead aid etc) which goes some way to offset my guilt about dh's massive income.

lovecorrie - i lived v close to that estate in leicester for years. it was pretty grim then before that lady tuened up and got all the residents motivated. maybe it didnt work long term?

on a leicester theme i remember the adrian mole books detailing how you oculd get vouchers from the social for school trousers etc. i take it this is no longer available and yet the poverty is no less than in the 80's.

It's as if some people never learned how to run a home properly . Just basics like cooking well on a budget, how to budget so your kids have adequate clothing (in a place like Liverpool there are bound to be ASDAs and Primarks that sell decent, cheap clothing), maintaining basic standards of cleanliness, etc.

It's as if some people need help to learn stuff like that, not necessarily money.

I don't know, it was horribly upsetting programming.

BrainSurgeon ... you are right ... MNHQ could look into this.

Thanks all for messages and support. I think this is worth looking into. Going to speak to some people at M&S head office and see what they say. The film was so good and Sam in his blouse just so low about it (although it's only a small part of it all) and those girls who just wanted uniform with details or nice buttons. They will do the a large part of the talking for me.

Will make appt to see head of son's school tomorrow. We live in a very deprived area of London and she is face to face with child poverty daily. She is an amazing head and would know just whether such a scheme would be viable from an inner city school's point of view.

Will keep you posted. Am determined to do something about this ... even though it needs something much much bigger than free uniform. The uniform grants in many councils are very very little, often paid only once and I think many councils are cutting them now. So sad ... and ashamed ... but something good must come of this. We have to try and believe that and help make it happen or we are lost.

why just those on free school meals....again..... why not those who earn less than the eligibility for fsm.

Once more it is suggested that free school meals be the yardstick. Plenty of children come from homes where a parent works and yet has less than £16,000 including tax credits.

How about compulsory planning, budgeting and cooking lessons so that income is spread a bit further. Tesco had 3 school shirts for £5. I'm sorry but that is affordable for anyone. I'm sure the dogs cost more to feed than that.

£5 is not affordable for everyone that is the point.

well it should be. How much does a family on benefits get?

We all have to cut back in this recessive climate. How about some parents cutting back on make up, highlights, cigarettes, tins of lager and large dogs.

The programme should have been called 'Feckless parents' rather than poor kids. The scandal is not poverty. The scandal is poor parenting in the main,

Sam's mum has posted several times on the poor kids Facebook page. There is info on there that links to the director's blog and you can make paypal donations to the families and send letters.

I am perplexed at Sam's uniform issue. His mum has taken him on holiday so Steve is having a break. I'm surprised a teacher if no one else hasn't stepped in and sorted him some decent uniform. Lost property stuff would do if it fitted.

I'm debating contacting the bradford family through the director. I don't know.

We were given school uniform grants at the start of a school year. It was £45 to cover everything and this was in the 1980's when clothes were actually dearer. Does this not still exist?

Interesting that everyone is thinking the dad is wonderful for keeping his family together eventhough the house is filthy because the mum left, but if the dad left there would be an expectation on the mother to feed and keep the house properly clean. Any parent who leaves is to blame equally, regardless of the gender.

I thought his mum left when he was 2 and he hadn't seen her since

I get a uniform grant of £50 a year, but I don't think it exists in all areas.

What Deux and Peeling said.
Cannot stop thinking about those kids today.
Go Roo55! Let us know how you get on.

Comic Relief does a fair amount with children in the UK.

I only caught the end of it, but I think this is one of the saddest programmes I've ever seen.

How on earth, as a society, dow e let this happen to families?

IO guess in a similiar vein, was the Fairy Jobmother.

On the surface, her clients looked like feckless, lazy scroungers. What the programme sadly revealed was a bunch of lovely people who had such shockingly low self-esteem, they felt they were too useless to even apply for a job. I wanted to hug them all. The huge smiles on their faces at the end of the programme was lovely

I think she's Kalebs mum, but also looks after sam and Kayleigh sometimes?

It;s also not always as simple as going to Tesco and buying three shirts for £5.

Our kids are supposed to wear logo school stuff. The shop that sells it is nowhere near here. (It's in Greenock, I live a river away from there) The cheapest way to buy it is to order in May, when the school does a bulk order and you get a discount. For this you need a chequebook, which I don't have.
Luckily my CM paid by cheque for me, and I gave her the cash.

I'll get my uniform grant sometime in July, I had to pay £25 for two polo shirts and two jumpers, 2 weeks ago.

That's half the grant gone even before I've got it, and still shoes and trousers to buy, then a winter coat and boots when the weather turns.

Go Roo. I'd support it.

Shame on me, I couldn't watch it through to the end it was so upsetting, those lovely little girls who looked in need of a good bath and a tummy full of food, for starters. If anybody does get anywhere with donations re this, please pm me as I would like to help.

So sas. This is how i grew up in the 80's. Going without meals, damp, no money for the elecetric. We are one of he richest countrues on the p,anet. It shoildnt be like this. And given the nearly 29% rise in gas and electric announced yesterday, it will get worse

20% not 29%

i am halfway through watching this with my dd who is 8, we both like watching real life docu's and i thought it would be good for her to watch it. i think it is awful how people are living in these conditions - i know councils are low on funds etc but the government should step in - my heart goes out to the poor kids and their families having to live in homes that are covered with damp/mould. i just want to be able to help them, if only i was rich, if i was rich and i was watching this i would so want to be involved in helping people have a better life. that poor little girl with the eczems on her ankles. watching her rub in the cream with filthy hands kills me, her eczema won't get better like that, it is so hard as a mum watching this, i just want to be able to help, so hard, life stinks really, just feels so wrong that some of us hve so much when some have so little. i agree with something some other posters have said even though i have only seen half of this, why do they imply that if you are poor you are dirty and so is your home. this is ridiculous, just because you are hard up doesn't mean that your home will be dirty and that your kids are too - if i were poor and saw this it would really piss me off. there are poor people who are equally house proud, just because you are skint doesn't mean you can't wash and keep your home as clean as you can - they should have shown poor kids from cleaner homes too

PaiseyII, you don't ned to be rich to get involved so we shoudn't use that as an excuse to do nothing!

The wee one with eczema, oh dear lord,broke my heart that did, and then when she said she had the best mum in the world One would have to presume that social services would up their involvement in families like this once it appears on tv, or am I living in la la land?

Can I just point out to the few that have blasted Cameron etc for this - this was filmed towards the end of last year, only 8 months after they came in so surely some responsibility for it must be with the policies of the Labour party? I agree the ongoing cuts are going to make the situation 100 times worse and it's not good enough, and that they need to look again at what the consequences for these families is, but don't assume it's all down to the Tories.

I thought those children were remarkably eloquent and being cynical wondered whether they'd had a few pointers as to what to say? Don't get me wrong, I know it's not "made up", but having children of the same age as Sam and his sister found it amazing that they spoke so maturely, but I guess being in such a crap situation makes you grow up fast - poor kids, literally.

isla - ss involvement on what grounds? there were no child protection issues as far as i could see though i wondered if sam's sister had been seen by camhs after her suicide attempt. on the old ecm system those kids might have failed the assessment on the poverty aspect and been referred to other services for that like the red cross and other local charities for help with food and appliances. though its unlikely, there may be a small chance of sam's family being able to get a family support worker BUT since it looked like he was turning up for school on time every day its v unlikely.

i owuld have thought that sam's dad would be eligible for a back to work scheme by now - you have to be unemployed for 18 months to qualify but i am only speculating.

I'm only specualting but it seemed very likely to me that Sam's dad has mental health problems. At one point I thought, thank god that man has the strength to carry on because otherwise his three lovely children could be even more unhappy.

Poverty is complex. It can't just be sorted with a back-to-work scheme or a few bottles of cif.

pointydog - absolutely - just to clarify i only mentioned a back to work scheme in terms of what extra services/intervention the family might be entitled to - i don't claim to judge that he ought to be working iyswim. i'd actually feel better about him being signed on to income support rather than jsa which i think he could be if the younger child stayed with him full time. otoh i agree with you that there may be mental health issues - depression at the very least and that he oculd probably do with the social support of working a few hours a week - even just for a break from that grim house.

Just watched this, was very close to tears as it brought back a lot of familiar memories and emotions from my childhood (I'm 26). I've made huge changes in my life and had blanked out those feelings of an abject, miserable existence. If I can willingly forget having no food, no clothes, no money to get a bus let alone do anything, what chance do our hugely privileged cabinet have of understanding what the poorest go through?

to donate to the kids on the programme last night

I've found this through doing some searching. If people want to send gifts or letters to any of the families from the programme last night.

hiddenhomeI cant see anywhere to donate for last nights doc on the link.

There is also a thread running in "Chat" that maybe those with ideas of how to help might want to post there. It is non judgemental and is trying to help, not judge.

lisa123 and sungirltan obviously you have background in this field which would help someone like me, wanting to help but not quite knowing where to start.

here

coffeeismyfriend scroll down, the addresses are under the video box.

Alternatively you can send a cheque made out to The True Vision Foundation, with a note on who they would like money to go to, to

The True Vision Foundation
49a Oxford Road South
London W4 3DD

(taken from the site)

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Poor-Kids/200271783351210

It says here Sam and Kayleigh's dad has had a heart attack and they're currently living in Wales with their aunt. Hope he recovers soon. Sam and Kayleigh were just lovely.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Poor-Kids/200271783351210

i live in a b+b with 2 children and have SS involvement.
Every time the council turn a blind eye to our mice and bedbugs and overcrowded conditions (i share bed with 13yo dd), the SS stipulate every damn time, that they cannot help with housing issues. Advice yes, but not council related issues...and it bloody stinks.
We have no uniform grants here either, our oven is illegally wired and most days its just a waste of time even geting out of bed. The MP wrote a stern letter to the council on our behalf but nothing has changed...been in here nearly a year now and dd1 doing GCSE (she sleeps in living room ffs)

Just getting over a spate of pneumonia too, I can't see it but I can bloody well smell it (the damp)

yeah, it's fucking hard going. Just thankful I do have a roof over our heads...
Hard to find a job too. I had a small job last year, cleaning. She knew my ex and I think he told her we were homeless (which we are) and she sacked me!
Predjudice and stigma are rife in UK 2011 and it shouldn't be happening!

I'm just thankful that I have no bills...so I can afford to buy food cos I cant cook on the oven, pot meals only (gas hob)

So there you go....

thank you tiredmummy I have linked the fb page and also now going to donate to the families on the programme.

I have emailed Truevision, told them people on here want to donate so they are going to look at the threads.

suntangirl, sadly there is plently of reason for ss to be involved. Those children are clearly neglected. Basics like food, warmth and clean clothes are things no child should be without. I had plently of cases like this in my old job, and its about finding the reason for it and working though it with families. Giving the tools to help change things.
Sadly the government only provide enough benifits for the basics of life for a family, which is fine but just not doable for long periods of time. Holidays are certainly soemthing and acitivities but these are things governement dont consider. They also failed to reconize the cost of heating, and need to really consider stopping provident being able to charge 2000% APR on their doorstep loans!!

Im not saying they should be removed, but someone should be helping. Heres denfintion of neglect

here

I agree lisa - the children are neglected.
To be wearing a girls school blouse - with pleats at the front, not just a plain one with the buttons on the opposite side, school trousers that are clearly 5 inches too small and no food is neglect.

Its not neglect, its poverty. Clearly the dad wasnt getting all the benfits he should have been if he was living on 400 quid a month. Each day must be a struggle

No matter the reason, it is neglect. Yes he wasnt getting the CB he should have been getting for those few months, but clearly it wasnt a new situation bore just out of this issue.
Every child shuld have the basics, food, warmth, clean house, clothes, a bed, access to medical care and treatment and parenting including age appropriate bounderies and duties.

I thought he was doing his best with the cooking and the birthday party. I thought he was great.
My house is cold in the winter. Its pretty messy. Its hard doing everything.

But i agree. Every child should have the basics but with the cap on housing benefit, the loss of dla ctc and various other cuts there will ne more children growing up in poverty.

the thing is, just because its neglect, it doesnt make it his fault. He can only do his best with what he has, therefore the blame firmly falls on the pepole that are meant to help!
I have spent hours before filling out forms for families to get the basics, a fridge, a bed for the kids, carpet, curtains! someone should be helping, clearly they arent, or if they are they suck at their job

Maybe he cant afford to pay back a crisis loan? So darent apply for one.

the cahrity shops near us ahve plenty of school shirts both boys and girls for 20p each as they are inudnated with them. school trousers and skirts as well, and as local donations colours appropriatefor local schools.
this isnt just one charity shop but several.
I have to say that i didn't watch all of th programme so may be speaking out fo turn, but having worked with ss over the years i often found that the parents didnt want to help themselves and would complain that they didnt have enough money for xyz but when offered second hand would turn their noses up at it and say they aren't charity cases. Whilst i do understand that even the poorest of people should have some pride, attitudes like this clearly weren't helping thier children.

Not all areas are the same. Charity shops in very poor areas rarely have much in them. In many cases you need to be able to pay to get the bus to the shops to find the stuff anyway.

Also our local Oxfam is crazy they charge 3.75 for a school skirt, any school skirt. Many of them are only two pounds new.

lisa - i take on board what you are saying. i suppose i mean its more circumstantial neglect rather thet overt neglect/abuse.

i too have never seen school uniforms in charity shops (plymouth)

i can't believe that poor sams school don't step in to help. i have been known to donate dd's out grown school uniform if in vgc to her school, they always seem pleased - i am pretty sure her school would step in and give the carer/parent of a child in similar situation a pair of strides, etc. such lovely kids, really unfair that they are in thier situations

I went and looked. There are 3 charity shops on my high street. Its a working class/poor area. I found 2 school shirts, neither of which would fit any of my kids and both priced at £3.50. I have never seen school trousers. Having said that, dds school does a second hand bin. Its where dds uniform comes from but thees not always the size. Right now she needs a couple of 30 inch school cardis. New they are £15. But theres none in the second hand bin and havent been for months

Charity shops in poor areas never have school uniform because everyone wears it until it disintegrates.

i wouldnt expect uniforms in charity shops much anyway because they are so heavily used.

no cheap uniforms in our charity shops. i liked sam's dad and admired himfforr cooking meals etc..
i have asked him to ask the children if theres a voucher etc they'd like and he is asking them. he has brought up 2 of the nicest children you could meet.

i had it all when my babies were born..lost the lost, purely circumstansial.
if you want rl...then you got it but no one is asking me...
i dont want charity, just to offer a reflection to those kids on the telly.
great kids...as are mine, polite, ps and qs, please and thankyous. why the hell should i be sleeping in the same bed? but no one askesd me that either?

cos i got a laptop? well, thats the only way of reaching out into the outside world.....

I don't think I have ever cried so much at a tv programme. or felt more angry at a society that can allow this to happen. The statistics shown were truly shocking. I will be making my children watch this.
It is hard to know how one could begin to help such families, unless you were able to offer well-paid emplyment (which fitted in with school hours)

It was a graphic demonstration of the term Poverty Trap.

purple I sent you a PM.

I think a lot of the problem are caused by the parents. You need food to live. You do not need TV to live. Yes - you can buy clothes from Charity shops. I do it. I buy bundles of clothes from ebay for my children, and myself. I spend £7 on 6 tops, 2 pairs of jeans, shoes which were like new, all sorts of things for my older son. Brilliant. A lot of it is pride - I don't care aobut that nowadays. We are doing our house up and can't afford to buy clothes in shops, so we don't. Simple. I buy food in cheap supermarkets and we have the odd day out.

Why can the little northern child not have colouring pencils? You can buy them for a pound. Forget TV for 6 hours and buy some colouring pencils, then the next day, do it again and buy some paper! It's all about planning.

It made me cry non stop, as it would be easy to sort out some of their problems. Obviously the damp is a deeper issue, and needs to be sorted out by the council in most cases.

Poor Kids documentary will be shown on BBC3 at 9pm on Wed July 27th. Please pass on to everyone interested.
http://truevisiontv.com/films/details/63/poor-kids