Nasty little shits in the village -what would you do?

(77 Posts)
Orchidlady Mon 30-Sep-13 10:15:30

Want some thoughts on how to tackle this. DS 13 was threatened yesterday by a much older boy (17 I think) and his "gang" basically had to run into the local and call us to come and get him as was very scared, obviously very distraught. When his dad picked him up these boys these boys were aggressive and swaggering, really facing up. His dad felt he best not to say anything. I really am fed up with this behaviour and sick of DS and other kids being intimated by these people. Without sounding judgemental but the mother is a single parent has 8 kids and expecting her 9th. She has no control over them so no point in talking to her. I know for a fact she was evicted from her last house because of her horrible kids, people applauded when she left. The fact they saw it fit place her here just makes me angry. So now DS will be afraid to go out. I want to call the police but DS begged me not too as he thinks it will make matters worse. Any suggestions?

alreadytaken Mon 30-Sep-13 10:20:10

I would discuss informally with the local police. Unless you make a formal complaint the police probably won't take any action (that could be damaging to your son) but it will mean they are known to be a problem if there are other things later.

You also need to think about how your DS can avoid them and perhaps about some self-defence training for him.

Orchidlady Mon 30-Sep-13 10:25:47

thanks already sadly the police are painfully aware of these kids. Trouble is it is a small village it would be impossible to avoid them. So now he will be house bound. Did have DS going to Tae Kwondo as I thought it would be good for his self esteem, as quite shy. Unfortunately he gave it up.

Orchidlady Mon 30-Sep-13 16:37:15

I have just found out that the "boy" in question is nearly 18 years. He is also selling drugs and apparently yesterday episode was because he was out of his head on something. This person is nearly and adult and mixing with 13/14 year old. Not sure I am comfortable about that.

RippingYarns Mon 30-Sep-13 16:39:19

if you have proof he is dealing, then no need for an informal complaint, make a formal one to the police?

wakemeupnow Mon 30-Sep-13 16:52:00

Maybe you could try being nice to the mum, she's probably having a shit time herself, you never know it could help turn things around....

Orchidlady Mon 30-Sep-13 16:56:21

How do I get proof though. I feel the police are very tolerant troubled family's. If this boy thought DS and snitched on him then sure hie life would become very difficult. These kids are not afraid of the police.

Orchidlady Mon 30-Sep-13 16:58:43

wake I am pretty sure if I tried to speak to this woman "nicely" she will tell me to fuck off. She has no control over her kids sadly.

RippingYarns Mon 30-Sep-13 16:59:24

well, if you haven't got proof, you have to let that go as hearsay really

so, as wake suggests, have you ever spoken to the mum?

sometimes if we understand why people are the way they are, things change.

what about the other lads in the group, are they at the same school as your DS? what happens there?

Hullygully Mon 30-Sep-13 17:01:10

Tell the police

Move if possible

girlylala0807 Mon 30-Sep-13 17:06:02

Im a single mum. My child does not behave like this.

Orchidlady Mon 30-Sep-13 17:07:47

ripping exactly I can not accuse someone with proof. So I guess will have to wait until this person physically hurts DS rather than threats sad
hully I have no intention of moving I have lived here for 12 years, why the hell should we. This person was kicked out of her last house because she made peoples life hell, To be relocated to a massive house in the village to accomodate all of them. And it seems the cycle is starting again. She has a chance for a new start.

OddBoots Mon 30-Sep-13 17:08:00

If you know he is dealing then maybe an anon call to Crimestoppers (0800 555 111) would be the answer - less chance of the family then knowing it was you.

Orchidlady Mon 30-Sep-13 17:10:43

girly this is not about being a single parent. I have been a single parent and my kids did not behave like this. Unfortunately she has 8 kids by several different fathers so I think it is a struggle.

pantsonbackwards Mon 30-Sep-13 17:12:26

I have a similar situation. All you can do is report everything to the police and get crimes numbers. Then use those as part of your complaints to the antisocial behaviour team and also the council or housing association if that's where they are living. You have to record every episode of anti social behaviour and report every single time to build
everyone above and anyone else you can think of. For the housing people they can supply you with forms to fill in about every incident.

Tell the police it was threatening behaviour and whatever direct threats they made.

Encourage anyone else who has similar problems to also complain. If you say nothing and no one reports similar then they won't be able to build a good case for eviction.

StuckOnARollercoaster Mon 30-Sep-13 17:13:22

It sounds horrible.
You clearly want to do something so your son isn't housebound, but realistically the only option is to let the police know because there are no other authorities that will take any action. Just make it very clear that you are reporting it anonymously because your son is worried about reprisals.
I would talk to your son about his feelings and what he wants to do. He's old enough to be part of the solution and what he feels will give him the confidence to be able to walk on by and past these thugs and not let their stupid threats and taunts affect him. Is it taking up some kind of self defence again, or just talking regularly and working on his confidence and self esteem.
Good luck - I remember being bullied on an estate and I wish I'd had a better relationship with my parents so that I could have shared with them what was happening, so you're already on the right track in that he knows he can turn to you for help...

pantsonbackwards Mon 30-Sep-13 17:15:37

The drug dealing can be reported via crimestoppers. If no crime being committed then they have nothing to worry about.

Also, how the hell would the op get proof?! Are you suggesting she goes undercover?

She's also not making a judgement on single parents for fuck sake. Shes explaining the family situation.

pantsonbackwards Mon 30-Sep-13 17:16:53

So many chips on shoulders on this bloody forum!

HeySoulSister Mon 30-Sep-13 17:19:51

You say he's got a 'gang'? So who are they? Do you know them? You also say you are fed up with this behaviour? What else has happened?

ChoudeBruxelles Mon 30-Sep-13 17:21:38

Do you know if she lives in council or housing association property? If they do complain to the landlord as well as the police. Aldo try complaining to schools if you where any of them go - if they still go

RippingYarns Mon 30-Sep-13 17:25:33

pants i was asking because if the OP had seen it, then she might have needed info on how/where to report it, no need to puff your chest up here, we're all reading the same stuff, you know?

OP, i did ask about school, are any of the lads at school with DS?

zippey Mon 30-Sep-13 17:25:38

What a nightmare situation OP but there have been a few suggestions already. Unfortunatly they need to live somewhere. If no one is brave enough to go to the police then this will rumble on until they get reported or something bad happens.

Maybe you can go to the police as a group with other people who have issues with this family?

sisterofmercy Mon 30-Sep-13 17:37:03

Crimestoppers is anonymous OP ring them.

specialsubject Mon 30-Sep-13 18:28:03

agreed - if no-one calls the cops, this will go on forever. contact them and explain the level of threats and that you think that your son may be in danger because you have called them.

if she is in council or housing association property they also need to know.

there just may be a miracle worker somewhere who can help the woman to change the behaviour of her kids which would be the best outcome. But doing nothing means nothing will be done.

Orchidlady Tue 01-Oct-13 08:51:48

Thanks for all the suggestions. It is horrible I know it can take a long time to get people out. There is a another lad in the village who has caused so many problems, over years, he has SN but his mother is the problem as she is an absolute hopeless parent. Police told me "not to worry as something is being done, they could not go into details" that was months ago and nothing has changed.
I will speak to DS and see how he is feeling. Will make sure I record everything. I have a feeling this will get worse before it gets better. Ironically we live in lovely rural area, she was moved here from a town, what do they think that these people will suddenly have a personality change.

pantsonbackwards Tue 01-Oct-13 09:20:06

Sorry, up above it should say that you need to report everything so they can build a case.

I guess they have to move them somewhere. In my case its next door and we have all the same problems you mentioned.

Orchidlady Tue 01-Oct-13 09:27:52

pants what a nightmare, I really feel for you. Are you powerless, what is happening?
In my experience the police seem to have their hands tied, this family have a curfew applied but no one seems to take any notice.

peggyundercrackers Tue 01-Oct-13 09:42:28

wait til it is dark with no witnesses then deal with it yourself.

wakemeupnow Tue 01-Oct-13 12:05:36

shock what have you got in mind peggy

Orchidlady Tue 01-Oct-13 12:09:44

I know I am intrigued.

wakemeupnow Tue 01-Oct-13 12:11:00

We had a gun hoarding psycho, his messed up son and abused dogs next to us for a year. I had to stay pleasant as I was scared of him and I wanted to support his son sad.
People like this rarely stay places long , just believe it's not for ever and try to give out good energy when you encounter them. This can go a long way to changing the dynamics.

Orchidlady Tue 01-Oct-13 12:40:47

Sounds like a neighbor from hell wake. Thank god these people are not next door to me but but some poor sods are. Oh and I am sure they are here to stay, she has got the biggest house on the estate, to accommodate them all, lovely big car, school places for them all. Thank god my kids don't go to the lovely little village school now. You would think she would be thankful for all she is given but no, sadly the one causing the trouble now is the oldest but we will have 8 more little darling to follow in his foot steps. Oh yea I should move accordingly to someone up thread. Really shock

HeySoulSister Tue 01-Oct-13 15:04:33

All she is 'given'? You are starting to sound quite nasty now

You don't know much about her except what the village gossips are passing round.

peggyundercrackers Tue 01-Oct-13 15:40:42

wakemeupnow - i couldnt possibly say what i had in mind - i dont like bullies though - the only thing they understand is their own beahviour - if they bully people they should expect the same back - running to the police will make no difference - bullies ignore the law as it cannot deal with them effectively.

emmelinelucas Tue 01-Oct-13 15:43:55

Then where is she getting her income from, as a single parent ? It is given - from benefits.
Having lived next door from a family from hell, I know what it is like.
I posted my keys, cancelled my mortgage payments and left.
The lad next door had sn - asperghers and his obsession ? - to burn my house down.
I got NOWHERE.
Everyone on the estate was frightened, and wouldnt dare speak up officially because of reprisals (they were genuine fears - no-one ever spoke up again)
Every time a post like this appears, the apologists appear.
Well, swap houses with the OP if you think you can change things.
Any takers ?

HumphreyCobbler Tue 01-Oct-13 15:46:33

Only someone who has never has to put up with crap like this, where they live, on a daily basis, would suggest befriending the family. As if that would actually bloody help sad.

Sorry your son got scared OP. There is nothing like living in a situation where going out of your own house is liable to make you frightened or the target of an attack.

I would log every incident and keep reporting.

HumphreyCobbler Tue 01-Oct-13 15:47:17

I didn't give a shit what they were living off tbh. It was what they were doing that bothered me.

Mumtomygirls Tue 01-Oct-13 16:00:33

First things first, get the family's address and search if it is a rented property ie council or housing association. Then if it is rented find out who by and make a complaint to them? Start making a daily log of the anti social behaviour that comes from this family. This will also help if other families in your village do likewise.
Make sure your lad only goes out when accompanied by other people so that he feels safe and make these other people (friends/family) aware of the situation and get them to txt you what happens and when (txt is a better record then voice calling)

I know this May all sound very long winded but as you say your lad doesn't want the police involved so this is next best option.
Don't wait until you complain to make a log, start it now and back date it with as many factual dates and times with what incident.

When your son sees/feels that he has backing of more authority that are "bigger" then these boys he may feel safe to allow you to call the police.

Failing that follow your lad without him knowing (this only works when you have an idea when/where these boys are likely to be) and record them being intimidating and either make an "anonymous" call to the police about a lad (your boy) being intimidated or start collecting and sending in the evidence to your local bobby on the beat

I do hope things start looking up for you

Orchidlady Tue 01-Oct-13 16:08:49

heysoulsister She has 8 kids, 9th on the way, no husband or partner ,she does not work. She was evicted from her last house FACT because she and her kids made people lives a misery. I am sure the authorities do not evict people for a laugh. She has been given a house loads of benefits FACT but still her oldest is drug dealing and making decent kids lives a misery because he is a bully. They think they rule the roost here now and all the kids are afraid of them. And I don't sound very nice. She is a nasty piece of work not me.

HeySoulSister Tue 01-Oct-13 16:32:18

Is she? So what has she done? You only mention a problem with one of her dc...... I asked way up thread who the rest of this gang are? I also asked you what else has happened?

I was going to suggest logging in a diary.... Reporting to HA/council.....police 101.

HeySoulSister Tue 01-Oct-13 16:34:21

And if you are 100% sure he's drug dealing... Then SS as she has little kids/new baby living there too. Obviously,anonymously.

You will also benefit from getting everyone else to log/report... More likely to take notice if you all consistently say the same things.

Orchidlady Tue 01-Oct-13 16:43:33

heysoul I could go into lots of detail about the family but is there much point really is there. Sorry I did not see your question earlier. The eldest is 17, he is hanging around 13/14 yr old, basically they are all scared of him so they are all his friend iyswim. Your suggestion of logging things is a good one, trouble is poor DS is now too scared to go to the village. They were openly aggressive to his dad when he picked him. Trouble is people are too scared to say anything to kids like this, I personally would not be able to keep my mouth shut. I did think about going to the house but think it will cause more trouble, I am watching now and waiting.

SpookyNameChange13 Tue 01-Oct-13 16:57:05

Is her home housing association/council? or private?

Orchidlady Tue 01-Oct-13 17:17:25

I am pretty sure private as not a council estate. Why do you ask?

happygolucky0 Tue 01-Oct-13 18:18:07

Sounds really pants op. I got a situation too at the mo but it is younger kids than mine being the intimidating party. I am more concerned about the parents being a hassle though.
If police went there or myself. Than I would face bigger troubles with ds walking around. It is a difficult situation I feel for you. Need a nice big dog for him to borrow !

happygolucky0 Tue 01-Oct-13 21:22:00

I have just been reading that even if it is a private landlord, the local Authority have powers to take the landlord to court for anti social behaviour. So it may be worth getting in touch with them.

Orchidlady Wed 02-Oct-13 08:27:24

big dog grin

bubby64 Thu 03-Oct-13 23:38:32

We had a similar problem until recently, luckily, the family concerned have now moved on, they applied for yet a bigger house to accomodate the next child on its way, I know for a fact the there were at least 3 different fathers to the 5, soon to be 6 kids in theat family. They made my boys lives and some of the other kids in the village lives a misery, and also caused a lot of damage around the village.
We logged complaints with both the police and the council who owned the house, it was all we could really do. The eldest 2 boys had already been excluded from the High school, and the even younger ones (girls) were causing chaos at the village school, the whole family laughed at the head when he called the mother in to talk about the girls behaviour.
I think the whole village breathed a sigh of relief when they moved on!

pantsonbackwards Fri 04-Oct-13 07:56:12

Why are some posters on here always so reluctant to believe that families like this exist!?

You can't make friends with them, well we can't to our neighbours. They live their life by a completely different code and a completely different idea of what is acceptable and will react to even a "hello" in an aggressive intimidating way. They've even shouted abuse and threats directly at my dcs who are INFANTS school age! These aren't just a bit misunderstood, they are aggressive, violent, arseholes.

They are arsenists. They are thieves. They've kicked my shed in and trashed my garden. They have even broken into my house and had fun going through my stuff and taking what they like. I won't be trying to make friends with them ffs.

Op. The housing association, counselling and anti social behaviour team are all building a case, but we need actual evidence for it to stand up in front of the judge who would make the decision to evict them. Unfortunately as someone else up thread experienced, everyone else is to frightened to speak up. They would have to make a report and no one will do it although will complain to me about them all the time. Im dealing with it alone. It would be much easier to make a case if others spoke up but if its just me it could in theory look as though Im being malicious.

They may still be in a housing association house despite it being a private estate. I believe they can just buy houses where they need them. Would be easy to check though.

pantsonbackwards Fri 04-Oct-13 07:59:43

What makes it worse is that the younger children of the family are really lovely and sweet. But there is no way they will stay like that. They are being raised to believe that the rules should be broken just like their older brothers and sisters.

pantsonbackwards Fri 04-Oct-13 08:24:34

Oh and i was friendly when they first moved in but they looked at me like i was crazy and closed a door in my face. I carried on trying for a couple of years! These are people who know they are going to make other peoples lives hell and see no reason to behave like nice people or even pretend to be friendly.

They were also evicted from their last place for the same things.

Orchidlady Fri 04-Oct-13 13:30:26

pants I get fed up with people making excuses for families like this, But what the hell is the answer. DS has not been to village since as he is too scared. How shit is that angry my older son's girlfriend last night told me has had been putting some very sad /depressed messages on Face book. I think he is more worried that I thought sad

pantsonbackwards Fri 04-Oct-13 13:33:36

Do they go to the same school? Sorry if i missed that.

Its horrible being scared at that age because it seems like your whole world.

Orchidlady Fri 04-Oct-13 13:40:03

thankfully not, I think this person 17 and left school. The fact he wants to hang around with 13/14 year old kids seems odd. I wish I could so something but it seems unless he actually hits DS I am unable to do much

pantsonbackwards Fri 04-Oct-13 13:40:12

There are a few posters on mn who refuse to accept that these families exist at all.

I've also had conversations with one mumsnetter who repeatedly refuses to believe that rough estates exist as well, despite me growing up on one and sharing my stories and others sharing their stories too. This mumsnetter lives on a lovely council estate and completely refuses the idea as she has never seen it. Her and her friends seem to go around on here calling anyone who has been on the receiving end of this behaviour a snob etc.

Tis weird. confused

pantsonbackwards Fri 04-Oct-13 13:41:17

Phew! Im relieved that he's not at the school. At least ds can feel safe there. Poor lad.

Orchidlady Fri 04-Oct-13 17:04:27

pants the chances are the people who refuse to believe there are few rotten apples, most likely are the type of families we are talking about. There is a woman on the estate who has a son with SN, no problem there except he is a nasty big bully BUT she I think she calls the police several times a week complaining about something. A police woman told me off the record that they were doing something about them but it will take time. How much time? in the meantime making peoples lives misery.

happygolucky0 Sat 05-Oct-13 00:04:38

When I called the police last week they was going to come out and speak to my neighbours. That was for making threats, they don't have to hit your son for the police to get involved.
I found out some more info on the ones that are being a pain .... Apparently the neighbours the other side are moving as they have had enough of it all. Just that i expect your not the family being affected . Maybe the police are already aware but just need some evidence on the lad. I am glad that I decided against knocking on her door as have been told that she would of probably of been aggressive as she won't have anything said about her kids.

JustinBsMum Sat 05-Oct-13 01:26:47

I think, maybe in desperation, that I might knock on the mother's door and say did she know her DS had threatened your DS who is only 13?

I wouldn't tell DS I was doing it as, true, it could make things worse but you could also say you have some clothes for the baby (if she isn't ffing and blinding and telling you where to go).

It's possible that the boy has some feelings for his DM and wants to keep a semblance of normal family life.

bubby64 Sat 05-Oct-13 20:25:03

justinBsmum , I tried that when a bully threw stones at my ds and cut his head opensad . I didnt want to get police inolved as my son did still go to the same school as the antisocial little s**t! All I got gor my trouble was a huge mouthfull of foul abuse and and threats.
This convinced me that trying to talk to families like this isnt worth the efgort, and in the end we just did go to the police and he got a formal written warning from them, with further action to be taken if any more problems occur.

pantsonbackwards Sun 06-Oct-13 15:36:46

I think this thread has disturbed the view of reality that a lot of mumsnetters have. Hence not many messages of support and sympathy.

JustinBsMum Mon 07-Oct-13 00:06:22

Well, it's partly that there isn't an easy answer, def worth getting the police involved but even then it can take months/years for something to be done. Horrible for those at the receiving end. To be honest paying someone to severely duff up the perpetrators could be the answer but as you could end up in prison doing something like that I wouldn't recommend it to anyone !

Orchidlady Mon 07-Oct-13 09:08:28

bubby oh your poor son. Did going to the police work? We have "restorative justice" with 1 bully in the village. What a total load of crap and waste of time. I wish there was an answer, I think years ago if this sort of thing happened and you went to the parents then you would have had their support and most would have been horrified that their kid was doing this sort of thing.

bubby64 Mon 07-Oct-13 20:11:04

It has seemed to work, as he was told in no uncertain terms that if anything further happened, he would be up on a charge of actual bodily harm, and to actively avoid contact with both my sons. The policeman was really very good.
His mother gives me dirty looks and goes into whispering huddles with her cronies whenever she sees me though, but I have a thick skin and think if she wants to behave like a 13yr old, let her.

Orchidlady Tue 08-Oct-13 09:47:15

bubby the mother sounds like a pathetic cow which will go to some way explaining why her kids behave like that. .

Just an update but the boy has found out through FB that DS has an older brother who would "sort him out" if anything else happens, so seems to have backed off for now. DS ventured down into village on Sunday so fingers crossed things are going to be better for him

SparkyTGD Tue 08-Oct-13 09:58:49

I feel for you.

This type of thing definitely does exist.

Hope your DS can keep out of his way, not be a target, I know its hard. Make sure he keeps his friends close.

'Befriend the mother', I don't think so, yes, she probably does have a hard time, perhaps he is also violent to her but OP might be putting her son more at risk by getting involved.

Orchidlady Tue 08-Oct-13 11:00:25

sadly it exists too often sparky

zzzzz Tue 08-Oct-13 11:15:56

Single mothers, multiple fathers, benefits, sn, drugs..... hmm

Orchidlady Tue 08-Oct-13 11:32:17

zzz sorry not sure what point you are making? Sceptical?

MrsPnut Tue 08-Oct-13 11:44:37

Do you have a neighbourhood policing team? Ours is really good and it's their job to work with the village to deal with anti social behaviour. There also should be an anti social behaviour team at your district council that you can contact and ask for advice.

You don't need to make any accusations but instead seek support and advice because your son is frightened to venture out into the village due to the level of anti social behaviour and they are the experts.

Orchidlady Tue 08-Oct-13 11:48:55

The community support officer is lovely, have spoken with her. Unfortunately they have limited powers, I think it needs to get physical before they can do much. sad

pantsonbackwards Tue 08-Oct-13 12:14:30

Perhaps make sure that your son has a phone on him and can get you or someone to pick him up if he feels threatened?

Orchidlady Tue 08-Oct-13 12:19:02

I am doing that, signal not the best in the village hence he had the savvy to go to the local pub and use their phone. He has a lovely bunch of friends from school but means a 20 mile round trip on Saturday, ho hum at least he is happy.

zzz care to elaborate?

TheArticFunky Tue 08-Oct-13 17:10:14

I agree with Sparky.

Avoid. Avoid. Avoid. Don't complain to the mother. Chances are the thug has forgotten about your son as intimidation will be a daily occurrence for him. If you complain to the mother your son will be on his radar.

I wouldn't befriend the mother either, leave that to the nice ladies at the local church.

Orchidlady Tue 08-Oct-13 17:17:32

Thanks, had no intention of speaking with the mother, would be total waste of time. Would no doubt get a torrent of abuse.

Orchidlady Fri 25-Oct-13 09:00:56

Update Just thought I would share some good news. DS has ventured down the village and boy in question has apologised to DS said he was out of order. DS accepted graciously as wants to keep boy on side as easier. So there is hope yet for the youth of today[smile

SparkyTGD Fri 25-Oct-13 09:38:59

That's great news Orchid smile

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