Allowance for 17 year old starting Uni but staying at home

(102 Posts)
Missgiraffe1 Wed 31-Jul-13 15:46:10

Either I am clueless - as the offer I made to DD was met with a less than enthusiastic response - or she is being unreasonable.

She will stay at home, rent/digs free. No tuition fees (we're in Scotland). We will pay for her travel, food, toiletries, but makeup/clothes and social life will be for her to pay out of her allowance and any other earnings.
I don't want her to work too much during term-time, but I think 1 weekend day, or 1 or 2 evenings, would be reasonable. So she could top up what we were willing to pay by doing this, or by babysitting (we have a 1 year old) or by helping with housework (of which she currently does NONE!! [bone of contention emoticon]

She has been working a minimum of 4days per week since her exams finished, but has spent it all.

I suggested we give her £30/week. Working 1 weekend day would surely top this up to around £55. With potential to earn more by helping out (I offered her £10 to clean all the bathrooms) and £5 to watch her little Bro once a week to let me get out to the pub gym. That's £70/wk.

I honestly don't know if this is reasonable. She has got used to earning a bit more with her summer job, and her only reference is a friend who's already at Uni, but who gets a bursary and has taken out a student loan. She gets about £600/month (apparently)
With a reduction in my days of work, and childcare costs, we now have almost £13k less coming in per year. We are also looking to insure her for learning to drive, so that will be another 1.5K expenditure.

Would anyone be willing to share details of their arrangements in a similar situation? Am really struggling to understand what is reasonable. I know clothes aren't cheap, and they all have a great social life these days (spa days, city breaks etc) but I also want instill some life lessons in her (which I think I have mostly failed to do in this regard, regretfully)
Thanks (if you've got this far!)

curlew Wed 31-Jul-13 15:48:33

Why isn't she taking out a loan?

NatashaBee Wed 31-Jul-13 15:51:13

Your expectations of how much she can work and covering the essentials sound reasonable. But if she disagrees she may just go and take out a loan...

chocoluvva Wed 31-Jul-13 15:57:16

I'm sorry to be no help - but I really have no idea -My DD might be in the same situation next year.

How has she managed to spend all her pay already?

I wouldn't have thought she'd need more than £30pwk when she will have almost no expenses. How much will transport cost her?

£55 a week should be plenty I'd have thought, but I'm not quite at that stage so I don't know.

I think she would be able to manage more than one day of work per week if she does nothing to help round the house though.

chocoluvva Wed 31-Jul-13 15:58:42

Clothes ARE cheap IMO. Stuedents are expected to look scruffy!

chocoluvva Wed 31-Jul-13 15:59:46

You could find out how much she'd get if she got SASS and use that as a guide.

chocoluvva Wed 31-Jul-13 16:01:55

Sorry - SAAS

Missgiraffe1 Wed 31-Jul-13 16:02:52

She won't have any transport costs, we will pay her monthly train ticket.
I would rather she didn't take out a loan tbh. If she can avoid debt, then she should. But I also can't afford to fund her lavish social life on top of everything else!
She spend her money on a 3day trip to London, a 3 day trip to Dublin &spending money for turkey (she has gone with her best friend &family for the last 3years. But we pay the actual holiday .... at a cost of £900 this year!!)

chocoluvva Wed 31-Jul-13 16:06:38

It's hard when they have friends who come from rich families and high unrealistic expectations of what they can afford.

nagynolonger Wed 31-Jul-13 16:10:51

If she is living rent free and most meals included I would let her have a loan for the rest or work. I wouldn't pay for anymore holidays either.....But then I'm really mean.

Missgiraffe1 Wed 31-Jul-13 16:11:36

Choco absolutely! I mean, we are reasonably well off, my dh earns quite a lot, but DDs best friend, 19, works Fulltime in her parents business. In fact they have 2businesses, and way more money than us (enough to travel by limo to English airport to fly first class to Florida, and party in New York every year for example) We just cannot compete with that!

BackforGood Wed 31-Jul-13 16:12:59

Honestly ? I think you are being more than generous.
If my ds stays home next year (very unlikely - I think he thinks the main point of Uni is to leave home wink), then we would cover his food, and toiletries, etc and that's it. (Can walk or cycle to a lot of places here).
If he wants a social life then he funds it himself.

You're not only offering to cover all living costs, but also travel, and also give her money as well, and she's complaining ? shock

Do you spend £30 a week on your social life ? I know I don't.

nagynolonger Wed 31-Jul-13 16:18:21

Do they start university at 17 in Scotland?

My older DC moved away for university at 18. The younger ones want to stay local but will still go into halls for the first year if possible.

Mine will be in debt unfortunately £9,000 a year at least.

ajandjjmum Wed 31-Jul-13 16:22:41

You don't want to compete with that! Although we're all slightly jealous, it's setting expectations too high!

DD moved to London to work for a year after her A levels, and more or less lived within her earnings. She has now started uni (just finished Year 1), and lives at home. She gets no set allowance from us. She earns a little money through part time jobs, and does have some savings. I think we are going to have to start giving her some sort of allowance next year, as her savings are disappearing very quickly, but she knows that really it's her responsibility to find her spending money.

Realistically we probably give her around £30 per week informally, and she doesn't complain (until she starts comparing with DS!)

littlemisswise Wed 31-Jul-13 16:22:44

I agree with BackforGood.

If DS1 goes to Uni in September, he is still in 2 minds, he will be living at home but he will keep his weekend job. We will pay for essentials like food, travel, and toiletries. We will buy clothes, but not the £35 t-shirts he likes to wear, he can buy those himself. He also had to fund his own holiday this year.

We do pay for him to be insured on the cars, but when he was learning we went with Collingwood learner driver insurance. That was about £290 for 26 weeks IIRC.

Missgiraffe1 Wed 31-Jul-13 16:24:49

They can apply after 5th year. I'd rather she waited a year, maturity, affordability etc (we have a savings bond thingy that matures when she's 18 - when we thought she'd be going to uni! - another when she's 21) but shes a determined wee bugger wink I just asked her she thought increasing allowance to £45/week would be enough. Still not happy. I'm starting to think she's acting a bit unreasonably and, quite frankly, spoiled hmm

Rummikub Wed 31-Jul-13 16:30:32

I think your paying her loads, esp when including everything. Total it all up for her and compare to what she would be getting and paying out if she didn't have your help and living in student accommodation.

Rummikub Wed 31-Jul-13 16:32:36

If she's not happy then suggest she takes out a loan and ask her to pay rent and travel etc out of it.

noddyholder Wed 31-Jul-13 16:36:49

Ket her get a loan? She will probably move closer to the uni in year 2 when she realises she may be missing out by living at home so for this year just bite your tongue!

Missgiraffe1 Wed 31-Jul-13 16:39:01

I think I'll sit down &work out how what we're offering compares to a SAAS bursary & a loan if she was to pay for her own travel as well as all other costs out of it. I wouldn't charge rent (maybe im too soft hmm)
Thanks for suggestions. And it's always helpful to get others opinions.

Missgiraffe1 Wed 31-Jul-13 16:43:00

Don't actually know if you can take out a loan at 17 (don't you have to be 18?) Will look into it. I guess if she has unreasonable expectations then she can just go and get herself into debt to meet them. It will then be her problem!!

morethanpotatoprints Wed 31-Jul-13 16:46:59

I think you are being too soft and I mean this in the nicest way.
My dc once over 16 have self funded except for cb which was theirs to keep, so approx £80 per month. Both have been to college and uni, but were expected to fund themselves. This included driving lessons, car, car insurance, MOT, course fees, toileties, entertainment, clothes, phone, the whole lot.
The benefit of this is ds1 has nearly enough for a deposit for his first home, he is 22. I think you have to be firm and they learn the value of money younger than those still at home with mummy and daddy when they leave uni.

Rummikub Wed 31-Jul-13 16:48:45

Include the rent when calculating, you can then remove it during negotiations as goodwill.

My sister used to get quite sulky when my mum would give me toilet roll and stuff to take back to uni. She had no idea how much it cost to live out as she stayed at home to go to uni. It's a different mindset.

hugoagogo Wed 31-Jul-13 16:51:40

Why on earth did you offer her more? confused

£30 a week is plenty.

She will never leave home at this rate.

hugoagogo Wed 31-Jul-13 16:56:13

Oh yes rummikib, dh stayed at home, he left home at 25 to live with me, he had no idea how much food cost. Wore all his clothes including jeans one time only after which his dm (the laundry pixie) returned them washed and ironed to his wardrobe!

He got a grant (those were the days) and spent it on a flashy stereo

morethanpotatoprints Wed 31-Jul-13 16:56:48

In fairness, if they have anything given to them above what is necessary you are doing them no favours. It doesn't matter if its £10 £20 or £100, the result is the same. You have to teach them that life isn't easy, its a struggle and sometimes you have to do without what you want even when you are working.

Missgiraffe1 Wed 31-Jul-13 16:57:40

I didn't offer her more as such. I asked what she believed would be reasonable amount. Then threw in '£45/wk?' as a suggestion. I have created a spoiled brat hmm

Parsnipcake Wed 31-Jul-13 17:02:58

I gave my son £70 a week, which comprised of £15 for travel, £15 for lunch at uni and £40 for clothes, entertainment and study materials ( he is doing art so has to buy a lot of kit). He worked 1 day a week and ended up buying a bike instead of getting the bus. When he got a better paid weekend job he only took £40, and I upped it again during his finals so he could take some time off work. He got very good grades throughout, if he had been arsing around I would have cut it down. I also have a dd at college who ended up with similar amounts as she got a bursary, and it seemed unfair for him to be worse off. He seemed to be on an equal footing with his friends who were in halls.

ruddynorah Wed 31-Jul-13 17:03:43

Honestly? I'd tell her to move out. I spent my first tear at home. Awful. Missed so much.

However, in that first year I got some grant (the last year there was such a thing) and I gave all £850 of it to my parents. No tuition fees to pay. I then had a student loan which that year was maybe £2k. Other than that I had a job that was 30hrs a week paying minimum wage. I bought my own food, toiletries, clothes, everything. That year I also learned to drive. As I was from a low income family I could apply for a hardship loan of £500. That bought my lessons. Didn't get a car til I graduated and got my graduate job.

Rummikub Wed 31-Jul-13 17:05:11

shock at your dh hugo grin

I'm good at budgeting as a result, my sister has no idea how to live without bring in debt and she earns 4 times what I do!

Students are v different now. I didn't but any clothes while I was at uni, mad to think that now. Current students seem to be well groomed and on trend.

Missgiraffe1 Wed 31-Jul-13 17:05:15

Morethan you speak so much sense . I think I have probably compensated for being in a real messy place financially when she was tiny. And also for some difficult times in our family that she dealt with really well. that we are in a better position

Parsnipcake Wed 31-Jul-13 17:05:41

Ps he is moving into a shared house this year. We are paying him £100 now during study weeks, ( there are about 35 in the year) and expect him to get a job during holidays/ to supplement during term time. He always finds works easily. If he couldn't I think we would have to give him more

morethanpotatoprints Wed 31-Jul-13 17:06:17

missgirafe

You sound a lovely loving caring mum and I know you want to do the best for your dd.
She won't learn the value of money unless you teach her or through making some expensive mistakes that could cost her future most dearly.
It is time for her to grow up and for you to allow her to.
I would do driving lessons for her 18th birthday and no other present. Car and insurance she should save up, especially as she has nothing left from her earnings. I told my ds1 he would be expected to fund this for himself and he did. There is no need to get involved with expensive days out, social life etc. Their true friends are the ones saving alongside them and meeting them for cheap night at cinema or happy hour pub once a week.
It is possible to have all the things they NEED on a shoestring income its the WANTS that are expensive. Teach her the difference between want and need and you will have cracked it. thanks

BalloonSlayer Wed 31-Jul-13 17:08:03

TBH I didn't read all that carefully the first time and thought you were planning on charging her £30 for rent and food and electricity and thought that entirely reasonable.

Lets get this straight . . . she is an ADULT, who has a part-time JOB, who could work more days, or she could be in full time work, and you want to pay her???

She could be living in digs and paying for everything with a student loan and a job and an overdraft. Lots of students do.

I think free board and lodging is extremely generous. Paying for her travel costs is really nice of you, and something a kind parent would do.

Paying for her car insurance is also really nice of you.

Giving an ADULT money or paying her to clean her own shit off the toilet - WTF?

morethanpotatoprints Wed 31-Jul-13 17:10:30

missgiraffe

We don't have much money so its easier in a way, they have to do it themselves. I haven't had the same temptation as you have, perhaps I would have done the same myself. I am also told that parents are more lenient with girls and we have dd9 to still go through it.
You will probably be calling me soft in 9 years time. grin

Missgiraffe1 Wed 31-Jul-13 17:11:20

Posted too soon. In a better place financially &sort of spoiled her I suppose. Now I need to figure out how to address that! hmm

noddyholder Wed 31-Jul-13 17:13:25

It is very hard to say no and withhold things when you can afford it.We didn't have much when ds was small and now we are better off he has been spoiled He is off to uni this year and it is very difficult to back pedal but I am being strict as I know its for his own good.

Fifi2406 Wed 31-Jul-13 17:21:23

I never had £600 a month at uni? Think that's a slight exaggeration after paying halls/rent fees and things I never had that much! I think your offer is perfectly reasonable if she gets a little job on top! She has got it good that you will be paying for food etc!

TheAwfulDaughter Wed 31-Jul-13 17:22:17

Why on earth isn't she taking out a student loan?

I work 20 hours a week as a student, alongside my full time course. She's only actually going to have like 8 hours a week contact time, no excuse as to why she can't work weekends if her loan doesn't need topping up.

My parents send me money to help pay bills and food, but that's because my entire student loan goes on rent for the year (in fact, I'm a 500 quid short each year)

Your help will be allowing her to live rent free. That's your contribution, you can also pay her travel or books at the start of the year, whatever- but she should be taking a student loan (which she can do at 17 when going to uni) from Student Finance Scotland, and using a part time job to top it up and save for holidays, ect.

That's very generous. No reason for you to be giving her allowance, you will create a monster at worst, and a spoilt brat at best.

Bakingtins Wed 31-Jul-13 17:24:10

Can you ask her to find out her friend's living costs? £600/m probably sounds a lot to her but won't go far if she has to pay rent/food/bills. Also point out that a proportion of that will be debt that will at some point have to be repaid with interest!
I think covering your daughter's essential expenses whilst she is in full time education is fair (which would mean rent/bills/food/travel) but the rest is optional and she needs to find work to fund it. Driving lessons and expensive car insurance are optional, I'd probably fund some lessons for her birthday but not insure her on the car.
You need to have the discussion about what responsibilities adults who are part of the household have. Why are you paying her to clean the house she lives in?? She needs to be taking on a share of the household duties, and I'd also have some provisional agreement in place about how it's going to work when she leaves education or she will still be sponging at 25! thinks of a recent telly program where a couple had 8 teens and twenties from a blended family still living at home not lifting a finger

Missgiraffe1 Wed 31-Jul-13 18:40:51

Wow, this thread has been an eye opener. Personally I think its reasonable to allow your child to stay at home rent free, with food, travel &other essentials (deodorant, shampoo etc) provided when they start uni. If you can afford it obviously. And it is a privilege to be able to do that for her. But I do now realise that I need rethink about her attitude towards money and her wants, rather than needs.
She is a fabulous girl in so many ways but I do now see that her expectations are ridiculous. Re the bathroom cleaning. We have 4, and it takes me over an hour to clean them! Am more than happy to pay someone to clean them so might as well be her.
And yes, I totally agree she should be pulling her weight more and am going to start addressing this (and without financial incentives!)
We bought her a block of driving lessons for her 17th. We said if we put her on the insurance, she would need to be responsible for all other lessons and test costs. Thanks to whoever gave a recommendation for a cheap company in this regard (sorry, on phone so can't scroll back)

Thanks all for your input. I am taking it on board. Am also feeling slightly down about her attitude hmm Much easier to prevent that to fix I suspect. Lesson learned for when DS gets older!!

ajandjjmum Wed 31-Jul-13 20:06:14

Missgiraffe
We all look at our DC from time to time (nomatter how much we love them), and think we did something wrong. But the fact is that you did a hell of a lot right too - she clearly loves and respects you - and you'll sort this out.

Missgiraffe1 Wed 31-Jul-13 20:22:10

Thank you aj. I know, but its hard to stomach the fact that she's practically pleading poverty at what we're willing to offer her! If only she knew how hard some people really have it.

ajandjjmum Thu 01-Aug-13 08:13:28

I once took my DS on a tour of the area I was born, and the places my DP and GP lived. It is a dire area - and was has become far worse over the years - fortunately I can't remember too much about living there.

I told DS how hard his GPs had worked to be able to move to a nice house, and give their family everything they could. And he sort of 'got' why it was important to keep working himself, as it would have been thoroughly ungrateful of him not to appreciate what sacrifices had been made (holidays - what are they?) to give him the life he has.

It gave him the required kick up the backside at GCSE time. Maybe you could think of a similar personal trip for your DD?

Gruntfuttocks Thu 01-Aug-13 08:21:08

My DS manages perfectly well on £50 a week, living away from home - that covers all his food and living expenses apart from accomodation, which he has taken a loan to cover. He earns what he can in the holidays to top up. I think £30 a week to live at home rent free is more than generous. Show her this thread?

PeriodMath Thu 01-Aug-13 08:32:10

Isn't part of the university experience learning some degree (excuse the pun) of independence? Living away from home, managing your money, your time etc... I don't see how your DD's situation could be construed as anything but a continuation of school.

She is lucky she will have no money worries when it comes to fees, food and accommodation (unlike many) - you're going to give her pocket money too?

Seriously, in what way will university be a new departure for her? No uniform?

chocoluvva Thu 01-Aug-13 08:41:18

Aww - don't be too hard on yourself Missgirsffe1. It's only natural that she'll hope for/try for as much as she can get,especially when she sees her friends having a luxurious lifestyle.

I quite agree that it's acceptable to fund her living at home rent-free. Presumably she's not eligible for a SAAS bursuary. If she was, it would probably be different. Not trying to make a political point here - especially as I got a full grant to go to uni; couldn't have gone otherwise - but the government expects/requires parents to fund/subsidise their DCs higher education.

My DD and I have been having this conversation in advance of next year. I think she's quite shocked to discover that we REALLY can't afford to insure her on our car/pay for a 'leavers holiday' etc.

Hopefully your DD will begin to understand the value of money now that she's working. Once she has to choose how she spends her earnings hopefully. It'll be good for her to have to choose between an extravagant night out and something else for example.

I think you sound lovely, and its a question I am also having to ask myself at the moment, DD is having a GAP year then starting uni next year and she could live at home.

However, as hard as it is we need to let them become financially more independent, otherwise we are doing them absolutely no favours at all. We have decided that dd, like most other students will need to work part time to fund her clothes and social life it wont kill them and I also decided that she needs to go into halls for uni for two reasons. One, to allow her to become independent and two, to allow friendships and to get the most out of being a student. I know this is going to be expensive and we will help however we can, but I do think in the long run it will be a massive benefit to her.

I think these days it easier for us to shield them from the harsh realities of life, but are we actually doing them any favours really?

Notyetthere Thu 01-Aug-13 08:58:41

I stayed at home while at uni. I too lived rent free and I was expected to do my share of the chores and look after my lil brother. I had a part time job in a supermarket for 19hrs/ week ( TBH looking back now they were too many hrs). I also took out the student loan. This way for the whole 3yrs I never needed a penny off mum and I believe it helped. I always had enough money for my transport, clothes, going out and the odd holiday. I wasn't particularly careful with money then as I was more in my overdraft than in the black but at least mum did not have to worry about me. I remember after uni when I started my grad job, I was so broke at about 8days before payday, I had £3.50 to live on till then! Luckily I had paid my rent for the room I was renting in another city. Even then I could have asked mum for help but I didn't bse u knew it was all my doing.

What I'm trying to get at is that even with a higher allowance it does not mean she be happy and disciplined. You will need to be very stern with your daughter on what you expect from her. She is an adult and will need manage her finances.

Student Loan is not that bad either, I wish when I got my student loan I had saved it. Its the cheapest borrowing she will ever be able to get in her whole life and only gets to pay it back once she earns over a certain threshold. My expenses were so low that and at the time Isas were paying 8%. I could have had a neat pot of money to start me off but I spent it all on gadgets and holidays.

chocoluvva Thu 01-Aug-13 08:59:56

You could give her her allowance once a term instead of weekly/monthly to help her learn how to budget.

Ilovegeorgeclooney Thu 01-Aug-13 11:53:58

This is a worry for so many parents. DD2 has had an allowance from her father's life insurance of £300 per month since she was 16, now she is 18 it doubles. This has meant that even though where we live there are loads of seasonal jobs she, unlike DD1 and DS, has not bothered. Last night she asked how much of an allowance I would be giving her for uni in Sept. when I said I would pay her hall fees but the rest was up to her I had a meltdown. She claims that since DH and I gave DD1 an allowance I should give her the same. DS has the same allowance from the LI and manages well. I am so upset, DH would be so ashamed and I feel I have let him down by allowing her to be so entitled.

Missgiraffe1 Thu 01-Aug-13 12:42:28

Ilovegeorge I will echo what others have said to me, don't be too hard on yourself. You most certainly are not letting your DH down (sorry for your loss) I do think teenagers build up this sense of entitlement pretty quickly though, my DD certainly has. You can only do what you think is right and hope that, as they grow into young adults, they will realise that they have been very lucky to have had such supportive and generous parents (and should bloody well be thankful for being so!!)
I know I've over-compensated for the difficult things our family has been through, but I now think tough love is the only answer for my DD.
This parenting malarkey is not always easy is it?!

And, Choco, that's an idea, Maybe giving her an amount per term. However, I am actually leaning towards withdrawing all offers completely and just letting her find out for herself how tough budgeting can be. My concern is that she just goes and gets herself into a ridiculous amount of debt before realising.

Missgiraffe1 Thu 01-Aug-13 12:47:24

And thanks everyone else for their honest opinions and experiences. If she want to be treated like an adult, I guess she needs to start acting like one.
(Am even more incensed now at how she reacted with such shock and horror at our 'measly' offer. Just as well she's in Turkey just now actually. She's probably safer there whilst I cool off and think about how to tackle this rationally and unemotionally.)

specialsubject Thu 01-Aug-13 19:50:46

TBH I think you are being very generous. She gets cleaning and laundry, accommodation, food, travel - she should be paying YOU!

I'm mean, but I wouldn't give any allowance until she contributes to housework. Especially as there is clearly enough money for a high-season trip to the Med.

hope she works hard and does well at uni.

Missgiraffe, I have two DC going to uni (potentially) this year, and although we can afford to subsidise them, we will pay travel for the one staying at home, and halls fees for the other. We have gone through budgets with them both, and they will get loans to make up what they need to live on, as well as their p/t work.

Do you know that the non-means tested loan for maintenance rises to 4k here in Scotland next year?

Missgiraffe1 Thu 01-Aug-13 20:54:27

4k?? Per year? Maybe I am actually soft in the head, but I hate the thought of my DD leaving university with a mountain of debt if she (we?) can help it.
However, I am now no longer willing to let her sail in &out of this house treating it like a hotel (aargh! I sound just like my mum did!) whilst showing absolutely no sign of understanding the value of money.
And, dh and I have agreed that the car insurance is off the cards for the time being (as we're pretty disappointed in her attitude regarding the allowance issue) so I hope she will start getting the message that we're not just going to keep handing stuff to her on a plate.
Think I need wine now smile

But she wouldn't need the 4k. My stay-at-home student has applied for £500. Which we could easily afford to give him, but I'd rather he learned to budget, and bought books and stationery within a budget instead of relying on his parents.

Likewise my going-away student will apply for more, because he'll have to buy food.

I don't think we do them any favours by giving them money. If they know they'll have to pay it back - ie student loan - or earn it, they'll appreciate it more.

sashh Fri 02-Aug-13 07:58:12

Your child is being selfish and you are being soft.

She should be paying rent/board to you and she should be getting a bursary and / or loan to finance her board and anything wlse she wants.

Missgiraffe1 Fri 02-Aug-13 11:35:42

Sashh yes, I'm now well aware that she's not being reasonable, but we are in the fortunate position to not have to charge her 'board' when she goes to Uni. Shes not demanding she stays at home rent free, we've never been under any doubt that we'd do this for her if she went to Uni. Yes, she needs to grow up, but we don't stop being their parents when they turn 17/18. I don't necessarily think its a bad thing to want to help your child avoid debt if you can, but I do appreciate that what we were offering was too generous.
As I said, we have already removed the car insurance option (until we see an improvement in several areas) and are revisiting the whole allowance issue, but I am never going to charge her rent for staying in her own family home. I very much feel I have a continuing responsibility for her.
Trust me, I know things have to change or she will become a selfish adult with an expectation that everything will come easy to her.
Im working on it.

chocoluvva Fri 02-Aug-13 11:54:07

I agree that if you can afford to have your grown-up child live with you it's mean to charge them rent. If you're struggling it's a different matter.

I also agree with the posters who feel their DCs should move out when they begin their tertiary education - my DD will apply for a highly competitive course and is most likely to only be offered a place at the uni in our home town - I think that's a shame for her, especially as she's desperate to have more independence, but the huge bonus will be the huge financial saving and we wouldn't dream of charging her to live in the family home unless we were struggling. DCs who choose to study in their home town for financial reasons are perhaps not very adventurous but the financial savings will be enormous. What on earth is wrong with that?

Missgiraffe1 Fri 02-Aug-13 12:13:01

Thanks choco
The course my DD wants to do is offered at 2unis in Scotland, one is 80miles away and the other about 18miles. She chose the closest one. Partly because she knows someone who started the course last year and loves it there, partly because its convenient (transport links are excellent) but also because I now have a 1yo DS and she has 3other siblings from her dad &wife (1just 4weeks) and she really doesn't want to be a stranger to them hmm
She is very independent in many ways (her Dublin &london trips were with friends) but I do feel that she needs to step out into the big bad world a bit more from now on (I've only recently set a new rule where she has to make all her own appointments eg hairdressers, doctors, driving lessons etc as she was forever pestering me to do it! Not exactly the sign of a mature young adult!)
I hope your DD enjoys her course though regardless. I'm sure she will. I suspect my DD may want to move out next year actually. But I also suspect it will not be very far away!!

catsrus Fri 02-Aug-13 12:19:03

OK - I have been in a slightly different position (dc not living at home but not eligible for loan - it's complicated!) but have had to deal with similar issues about "how much is fair" - after a year my dc has told me I have been giving them too much so this year the monthly allowance has gone down!

We did have the conversation at the start about getting the balance right between giving enough and letting them learn the real value of money, and this conversation continued - to be honest there has been a total transformation in 12 months from a sense of entitlement to one of gratitude. I was told that I should not give above X because it would just get spent - and they didn't like feeling so much better off than their friends.

taking them food shopping and watching a supermarket own brand being put in the trolley instead of the beloved Heinz tomato ketchup did make me smile.

I would say it's OK to be generous if you can afford to be, but keep the conversation ongoing about the importance of learning to budget and you don't want to do the wrong thing by giving her too much.

Missgiraffe1 Fri 02-Aug-13 12:27:47

That's encouraging catsrus. Sounds like you've done a great job there.
I really hope to see a change in DDs attitude. I have the added problem of her dad now having a lot of money. He tends to just hand her a £50 note every now &then, and also gives her £10 week (although I think that has stopped recently for whatever reason) so she has had it very easy. I had a talk with him when I stopped the allowance we had started giving her when she was 16 (as her room &ensuite were a mess, and it was the only thing I asked her to keep on top of)
But the handing out of money continued hmm
Not that I'm blaming him. Its just an added complication.
We are going to have a stern talk with her when she's back. Fingers crossed.

OttilieKnackered Fri 02-Aug-13 12:35:36

Just to add to the chorus, I think you're being more than generous. My little sister is at uni, although on holidays at the moment. She had to move away to go to a decent one, so pays for rent, food, socialising, travel etc all herself. As well as £9k per year fees. She worked in a call centre for a year to get some savings under her belt as spends the holidays working with children with profound disabilities. She doesn't get a penny from our parents.

She'll probably leave with about £40k debt. If you can afford for your daughter not to get into debt then that's great but her sense of entitlement for spending money is astonishing. Many more students are in my sister's position than in your daughter's. I think she needs to realise that.

Missgiraffe1 Fri 02-Aug-13 12:40:52

I totally agree ottilie. Praise where praise is due, your sister sounds like a very hard-working and committed person.

Hi OP, I think you sound lovely!

I will share my story for background. I went to uni (Scotland) 10 years ago and lived at home. My course was FT and intensive. I worked throughout my course.

I lived at home and paid no rent but not a penny from parents. I lived a 40 mile round trip for which the public transport is non existent. I took out a loan and paid insurance for my own car and paid it up every month, had a good social life and went on holidays- all without debt and through my own earnings, also whilst getting a degree.

I managed to progress through jobs; TESCO, to promotions, to admin jobs- all of which I believe got me a better job than friends once graduated- I had doubly proved myself, if you like.

I graduated in 2008 with a good work ethic (I think!). I am personally eternally grateful my parents refused to give me anything- when they more than could. It taught me hard work, respect for money and that I can do most things myself.

It worked for me! I have a very good job and salary now having graduated 5 years ago

alreadytaken Fri 02-Aug-13 12:54:06

I feel for you as my teenager is spoilt too. Stand firm, let her take out a loan if she wasn't to be extravagant. You can pay off some of the debts later but having to borrow may curtail her spending.

chocoluvva Fri 02-Aug-13 12:54:21

She probably does realise that she's lucky compared with most people.
But it's like telling people to eat everything on their plate to avoid wasting food when there are others in the world who are hungry; it doesn't usually work.

It's more a question of her being fair and reasonable as a member of her household. If she isn't grateful or helpful then she shouldn't expect to be treated generously. She needs to understand that you wish to prevent her having a debt when it isn't necessary, but you don't have to spend a large proportion of your money on her social life/high standard of living and you don't feel inclined to when she doesn't show her appreciation - by being thankful and doing her fair share around the house etc.

The amount of time you spend doing things for her is the same. I tell my DC that I'm delighted to do things for them to support them with their constructive activities so I'll gladly run them to instrument lessons, DD's voluntary work etc, but if they're going to their friends to hang out they can walk (unless it's pouring or they've been very busy and I can spare the time.)

She will also feel good about herself when she has achieved things/acquired things through her own effort and be compassionate to people who are not as financially well-off as her.

Definitely a matter of balance.

SnowWoman Fri 02-Aug-13 12:56:09

DS is living at home while at college. We are not charging rent or food, but he does have regular chores to do as well as helping out with larger jobs like DIY as required. He does his own laundry and cooks a family meal once a week.

He got a travel bursary last year, but not any more, so from August we will be paying for that too. He was on £100 per month plus the bursary plus £10 for mobile phone. He had to learn to run his own bank account, and his allowance covers clothes, kit for the course, social life etc. He is doing Graphic Design, so we did buy an iMac but the whole family use that.

How this will all pan out when the DDs start college/uni will be interesting - DD1 has already negotiated a pocket money raise for S6!

mrsjay Sat 03-Aug-13 17:08:32

dd stays at home and works before she got her job we paid clothes travel and food any extras she had to pay for herself , It is amazing what they can achieve when you dont doll money out of them, what is she studying because she wont be in uni all day every day she can work and if she is staying at home then she has no other money worries I wouldnt be dolling out the cash if she isn't preapared to support herself a little bit

Greenkit Sun 04-Aug-13 04:28:32

My DD is 16, nearly 17 and since she was 16 I have given her the child benefit, about £80 per month. Out of that she has to buy all her own clothes and extras, I will pay for toiletries and food etc with our normal shop.

I also take £20 per month for her phone contract, which is in my name as she is not yet 18.

She attends college full time, walks there and back which is 6miles a day because she hates buses saves money

Greenkit Sun 04-Aug-13 04:29:44

Oh and in terms of work around the house, she walks the dogs every day, empties the dishwasher and puts washing on when asked

ImperialBlether Sun 04-Aug-13 18:43:17

Why don't you do something like match her wages, or give her 50% on top of her wages?

Everyone in the house should have jobs. Why are you cleaning four bathrooms? How many people live in the house?

Are you a SAHM, OP? How many other children are living at home?

Missgiraffe1 Sun 04-Aug-13 21:03:32

No Imperial, I work 4days. Just me, DH, Dd and 1year old ds. Dd has her own bathroom we have our ensuite, then there's the family bathroom and a downstairs toilet! We did not consider how much work this house would be before buying it!!
Mrsjay she will have 3.5days at uni so plenty time for a part time job.
But I have now pretty much decided that Dd is going to be responsible for cleaning them all weekly - and without pay - once she's back from turkey. Along with some other regular chores. I was on mat/annual leave for 14months so did let her get away without doing much during that time. I do need to get it through to her that she needs to start acting like an adult now.
I like the idea of possibly topping up what she earns (the shop she works in will be closing in a couple of months so she needs to look for something else) and an incentive, rather than us give a set allowance.
Thanks everyone.
Tough love from now on <invests in set of earplugs for expected 'Kevin-esque' whine>

sashh Mon 05-Aug-13 07:44:53

Re the bathroom and bedroom. Most uni halls charge a deposit and then inspect the room twice a year. If the room / bathroom is not up to scratch they deduct from your deposit.

You could do something similar.

Madratlady Mon 05-Aug-13 08:02:56

I think you're totally spoiling her. My parents helped towards my accommodation fees at uni but I paid for the rest with loan, overdraft and a part time job (and I managed to work around a very full on course - 9-5 in uni or full time placements).

Part of uni is learning to live independently and badge which she never will if you're paying her way entirely. I understand that you want to help her but it sounds like she's being demanding and taking the piss a bit.

Tabby1963 Mon 05-Aug-13 08:30:52

This is a really interesting dilemma, and one I faced this time last year with both my kids.

DD started uni away from home and we agreed to pay her first year's accommodation in halls, but she had to find a pt job to pay for anything else. This she did. She's starting second year soon and we have agreed to pay her monthly rent at the flat-share she is moving in to, but again, all other expenses she will pay for from job.

At the same time DS, decided he wanted to move away to another city to share a flat with friends. He got on a part time course at the local college, and found a pt job to pay his own way at the flat. After the course he found a really good apprenticeship with the Council and will do reduced hours with his job. He loves living at the flat with his pals and does not want to return home, he says it would be like going backwards not forwards.

Thing is, the changes I have seen in both kids are amazing. They have both grown up so much, increased self-confidence, and they value money so much more. Neither have been prepared to take money off me (I have offered), because they want to stay independent.

However, I do do an online supermarket shop for them both every couple of months though...

I truly believe that had they stayed at home and went to uni or college here, they would not have become so independent. I am glad they left home now.

crochetkate Mon 05-Aug-13 09:19:15

I think you are being very kind

When I was at uni 3 years ago I had £50 a week of my loan once I had paid for rent and bills. From that I had to eat, clothe myself and entertain and travel.

FWIW though even if lectures are only 3.5 days per week you are expected to devote the equivalent of 9-5 Mon - Fri to complete reading do assignments etc. I certainly didnt have time to work.

Madratlady Mon 05-Aug-13 10:02:30

crochetkate I was also at uni recently, I managed to live off £50 a week because it was all I had and my course was 5 days a week in uni or full time placements. I still managed to work 10 hours a week. It's doable if you need to.

Regardless of whether the OP's daughter works, it's one thing to provide accommodation and food, it's another to subsidise drinking and socialising.

I think the OP sounds very kind but is maybe going OTT with £45 a week for spending after food, clothes, toiletries are already paid for.

Madratlady Mon 05-Aug-13 10:07:31

Just to add, I don't want to have a go at anyone's choices, and I'm all for parents being supportive, but I don't think providing everything is doing students any favours. Full time work and having to manage a budget must come as a big shock to those who've never had to do it before.

Sleepyhoglet Mon 05-Aug-13 10:11:46

The amount of jobless graduates who turn thei noses up at low paying jobs because they will be worse off than when they were students is more than you'd think!

prettydaisies Mon 05-Aug-13 18:05:06

We live in England, therefore DD has to get a loan for tuition fees. We have said that we will pay her rent and food, but everything else she has to pay for herself, either by working or taking out a loan.

Sleepyhoglet Mon 05-Aug-13 19:23:20

If its any consolation. She will probably be ungrateful and selfish about it now, but in a few years time, she will realise how kind you were to her. I know I am grateful to the financials help my parents gave me at uni. However, she is going to find it hard living at home whilst her friends are in halls and indeed harder to make friends. No amount of money will change that. Still it is much more savvy not to take out extra loans.

Raindrops0nRoses Mon 05-Aug-13 19:34:59

What you are offering already sounds unbelievably generous, to the point of spoiling her (she won't clean the bathroom unless you pay her?!) I also dont understand why parents seem to feel they owe it to their children to pay for car insurance. A car is a luxury you have to work for, as are holidays.

chocoluvva Mon 05-Aug-13 19:49:48

Don't you think it depends on how well off you are though? If I could afford to insure DD to drive our car I would - it would be very convenient.

Having said that though, I was very proud of myself for funding my own driving lessons and buying my first car (aged 25). I'm sure I appreciated it more than the people whose parents bought them a car. The feeling of having achieved something through your own efforts is like nothing else.

Missgiraffe1 Mon 05-Aug-13 20:57:00

Just for info, she doesn't refuse to clean her bathroom unless I pay her. She does clean her own bathroom (how often, is another question altogether!) I offered to top up her allowance (which clothes would come out of) if she cleaned all 4. It's a chore I am happy to pay someone to do. We were thinking of getting a cleaner now that Im back at work anyway so, if we're going to pay someone, why not DD?
It would be very convenient if she could drive to be honest (having 1year old ds, a husband who travels with work regularly, and a dependant dad), she could even help with pick up/drop off with childminder on her days off, or when I have work meetings etc (I'm lucky enough to be home-based)
Im still struggling with how to strike the balance. Im thinking along the lines of to advising her she can take out a (modest, not 4.5K!) loan and get a new pt job. Then, depending on how she manages that throughout her first year, we may offer an allowance in future years. But only if she manages to budget properly and manage her own affairs in a mature and sensible way. If she blows the lot on clothes and weekends away then moans about being skint, well all deals are off.
I am feeling all defensive now. My dd is a really lovely girl, very kind and caring, and every single school report, without fail, has mentioned what a pleasure she has been to teach (proud parent alert). But I am well aware she has but been living the high life too easy, and for too long.
Thanks again.

chocoluvva Mon 05-Aug-13 22:01:29

Don't be too hard on yourself Missgiraffe1 - I think it's very easy to spoil our DCs - better to over-indulge than to neglect though surely?
.
Your DD is still very young - she'll grow up a lot when she starts at uni.

None of us are perfect parents anyway - perhaps you have over-indulged your DD, but you've obviously done lots of other very important things well from what you say about her reports. Some of those people who are good at giving their DCs good life lessons about working for your money/being independent/grateful etc; that's great, but perhaps they've been lax with other areas of their parenting - perhaps their DCs have not been brought up to be kind/caring/thoughtful etc. A good work ethic is admirable, but it's not the be all and the end all.

I think I took my mum for granted when I was 17 too, (not financially, but I just expected her undivided attention whenever it suited me and bent her ear over ridiculous things, grumbling and complaining all the while. I was in no way considerate to her). blush I appreciate her now though.

We all expect a lot from our parents when we're teenagers. Good luck with your decisions - it's not easy to know how to be balanced in this situation.

FiftyShadesofGreyMatter Tue 06-Aug-13 08:55:44

I am on my third and last teenager. Here is what I would do:
Let her live at home rent free and cover her food, that is all.

Let her take out the loans if she needs more funds than she can earn with her part time work. Otherwise she will not learn to budget.

If she graduates successfully, then if you choose to, pay off her loans (but don't tell her that you might do this).

A lot of us have learnt the hard way that giving them everything just makes them ungrateful and more entitled.

Good luck, I know it's easier to give in in the short term for peace but long term it does them no good at all.

Missgiraffe1 Tue 06-Aug-13 12:02:47

Thanks. I know the importance of learning to budget. And I know its our job as parents to try to teach them. I guess we cant get everything right all of the time!
Results are in. 2As,2Bs and a C (the C in a subject she had a tutor for. Refund?? wink)
Delighted for her. Will let her celebrate when she gets home, then it's time for the money chat. Wish me luck!

Viviennemary Tue 06-Aug-13 12:12:18

I think part of the fun and experience of going to Uni is to live away from home but she might decide to do that in her second year. £30 for pocket money sounds reasonable. But she might need more in freshers week to join in all the activities.

ShabbyButNotChic Tue 06-Aug-13 17:16:32

I think you are being more than kind! I live at home an went to local uni. I didnt have to pay board at home, but i wa expected to help out, eg doing my own washing, cleaning up, walking the dog. I also got a loan for fees and living, and worked 2part time jobs (shop work all day sat/sub, bar work on weds nights) mixed in with the odd babysitting job. I paid for all my own things including travel, clothes, books/stationary for uni.

Tbh i was quite spoilt as a child, but my parents were firm believers in 'you want to be treated like an adult, behave like one' so i had to get a job at 16 and start supporting myself.

I think a lot of parents do their kids no favours. Why would she get a job when you will pay for stuff?

34DD Tue 06-Aug-13 20:11:45

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

brightstarfish Fri 09-Aug-13 12:56:48

life is hard in the big world.sooner our children know that the better.you are doing more than enough.

cory Sat 10-Aug-13 12:42:06

At the moment her whole frame of reference is with a group of friends who seem extremely well off and spoilt. By the time she goes to uni, she will get to know the lot: plenty of students have poor parents/are no longer dependent on their students/are mature students returning to education after years of childcare or work. She will find out that there are all sorts and that nobody admires you for swanking around in expensive clothes.

Writerwannabe83 Sun 11-Aug-13 13:18:17

When I started University I moved in with my dad (my parents were divorced and he lived in the city I wanted to go to Uni in) and I had to pay my way. I got about £230 a month for my NHS Bursary and £125 of it went to my dad as rent. I still had to buy food and things too. I certainly wasn't given an allowance or given money for doing household jobs! That stopped when I was about 14.

In my 2nd year of Uni my bursary was stopped so my dad 'let me off' the rent but it meant I had to get a job in order to be able to afford my clothes and food etc. I worked about 2 nights a week and then either a full day Saturday or Sunday. It was hard work but such is life.

In my 3rd year I was more reluctant to work as I wanted to focus on my studies. I kept my job but worked less and instead took out a loan to subsidise my living.

I had to pay for my own driving lessons too throughout this.

As has been said, you are spoiling her. If she wants to go to Uni and get an education then she needs to face it like an adult should.

Thankfully me and my Hubby are in agreement over such things and when/if the time comes that we have a child who wants to go to Uni they will be told in no uncertain terms that they need to fund their own choices. We both had to and so do millions of other Uni students - it is part of growing up.

Missgiraffe1 Sun 11-Aug-13 14:56:53

As I said, I'd like to help her avoid leaving Uni with unnecessary debt (and we can easily afford to help) but I'm not willing to subsidise a lavish lifestyle, which some people who work fulltime can't even afford.
Sorry, but the idea of parents (who can well afford to help) expecting their 17/18year olds to support themselves 100% when they go to Uni doesn't sit well with me. It's just not in my nature. And if that makes me soft, then so be it. But we will be making big changes from now on in relation to her contribution to everyday tasks.

chocoluvva Sun 11-Aug-13 15:23:08

"As I said" - sigh, some posters don't seem to read what the OP has said....

Why on earth you should have to defend the view that you are happy to fund your DD through uni to avoid her having a large debt at the end of it is beyond me confused. It's only a few years since fees for FE/HE were introduced. There are lots of things that my DC have that I didn't have when I was a child, eg a family car. It doesn't make sense to me to think that they can't have things just because I didn't have them.

Housing costs are astronomical now - thanks to our generation - and pensions are less generous. New mothers get less help than they used to; if you can afford to help your DC through uni be glad I say! The young generation have it easier than us in some ways but definitely not in others.

Hurrah for the resolution to get her to help out around the house more now though.

Zoomania Sun 11-Aug-13 15:50:55

I think that it is great that you want to support your daughter through uni and start her out on life without debt. My parents did the same (bar a couple of student loans) by paying my rent and when I had finished paying back 4 student loans.

I would just say that the money I had (70 per week) went for food and books and travel as well as activities. If I wanted clothes, CDs or a holiday I used money I had in my savings account from working hard every summer holiday or birthday money. I think the fact she has blown her savings on expensive holidays already is the wrong attitude.

I did a course that was not compatible with part time work.

I had to budget for food, if I ate out occasionally with friends I would order the cheapest on the menu. This was a treat not a regular occurrence. I wouldn't have expected my parents to fund lots of nights out or drinking. Spa breaks , holidays and city breaks are what one might save for as a young professional after finishing... I do think her expectations are too high.

RawCoconutMacaroon Sun 11-Aug-13 16:15:00

Missgiraff, haven't read the whole thread so apologies if some of this has been covered.

My eldest 2 DS completed 6th year and started uni while still 17. The SAAS had no problem with this, a lot of Scottish kids start uni before they turn 18.

Above a certain parental income, the student CAN'T get the full living cost loan, previously it was only £900 a year they could borrow, but as of this coming academic year, the minimum living cost loan for an away from home student is about £4400. That won't even cover a room in halls.

Ds1 also gets a fee loan, as he's at an English university that's not "free" but his loan is funded by SAAS.

Each dc get £500 a month from us and they are expected to cover everything with that and the minimum loans, so I think £30 a week when you are paying for transport, food and lodgings is a lot!

dementedma Thu 15-Aug-13 22:14:43

Dds saas loan will only just cover living in halls. We can afford to give her 50 a week and she will have to feed herself from that as well as toiletries, social life etc. She is going to have to learn to budget pretty quickly. Its not going to be enough is it....?

BooCanary Thu 15-Aug-13 22:34:54

Fiftyshades speaks a lot of sense.

When I was at Uni (20 years ago!) My parents gave me £1000 per year ( excluding accommodation). In those days £20 a week plus the odd £100 earned in the holidays was enough for very cheap food ( noodles anyone?), the odd pound a pint night at the union, and charity shop finds!

I think £30 for 'extras' is more than generous.

FiftyShadesofGreyMatter Fri 16-Aug-13 10:15:35

Why thank you BooCanary <takes a bow>

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