Help me! ds1 and ds2 cant stand each other

[cheeryface]

my 2 boys are 14 and 11 . ds1 loved ds2 until he got to about 3 years old and since then things have got worse and worse!
they are absolute chalk and cheese.
they cannot get on at all . ds1 just cannot tolerate ds2 at all.
they dont tend to get physical but the shouting , name calling , door slamming and crying (ds2) is really getting me down.
i normally intervene , try to sort out whatever the issue is and seperate them but as it was wearing me down i decided to try leaving them to it but then it escalates and ds2 is ranting and crying about how he hates his brother and from now on he has no brother and blah blah blah
weekends are a bloody nightmare.
does anyone have any suggestions?
does anyone else have this problem ?

[bidibidi]

Have you tried getting them to sit down and talk thru recurring points of dispute -- maybe if they could learn to resolve single simple problems, they would get better at solving other one-off conflicts. Not a cure, but an improvement?!

Sympathies, I have 4 primary age and younger, they squabble like crazy!

[cheeryface]

they wont talk anything through because they seem unable to talk to each other without alot of attitude with it!

i have talked to them individually about things, for example i have asked ds1 to stop telling ds2 off every time he leaves a mess or whatever but ds2 still insists on playing the narky parent.

i have told ds2 to stop hanging around the bathroom door saying stupid stuff to ds1 when hes in the bath but there are millions of things !

[bidibidi]

But they have to work it out, you cannot be their mediator forever!

I wonder (I am brain-storming now...)
Promise them 20p each (or whatever currency will work) for each minute they manage to sit and negotiate without blowing up at each other (no shouting, name-calling or violence or nasty remarks). You draw up an agenda with 3 items that are chronic conflict areas (like waking each other in the morning, who ate all the biscuits, whatever), and then see how many of those problems they can agree on joint solutions to before things degenerate.

Obviously pick the three simplest problems (you hope). Or maybe the three that otherwise suit you best for them to resolve.

If 20p or nothing else motivates them to even try to talk, then take something else away (like phones) until they consent to try it.

It might help to read the Siblings without Rivalry book or one of the other books by same authors which talk about brainstorming solutions when it seems like you've got intractable conflict.

[potoftea]

You have my sympathy as I have a 15 year old ds, and a 17 year old ds, and they have hated each other since the youngest was about 5 or 6.

They are so different, the older is fussy and tidy and clean; the younger is a slob , and does drive us all mad. But the older one watches out for something to complain about, and then the younger one does things deliberatly to wind up the other.

We really have kept them apart as much as possible, including having them going to different clubs for the same sport; otherwise neither would enjoy it.
Strict rules on not entering each other's bedrooms helped too.
I've put them in seperate rooms watching the same program on tv at times too, which seemed crazy, but kept the peace.

And of course it made me so sad, as I love them both very much.
However.....finally they seem to be getting along better in the past year or so. They have conversations that don't need refereeing, and ask each other for opinions or views.
So I think they will grow out of it, but it may take a few years yet.
Good luck!

[mumblechum]

I like Bidibidi's idea

[cheeryface]

thankyou Bidibidi i will give your suggestion a go.
potoftea , yours sound alot like mine! i have ds1 who is old beyond his years, always has been and is amazingly intelligent, likes his own company and is a real geek according to his brother.
ds2 who is sporty (which ds1 hates), one of the lads and refuses to make any effort whatsoever at school, hes very young for his years and never understands what anyone is talking about!
and me, im going bloody grey!!

[Butterbur]

My ds1 had hated ds2 from the moment he was born. "Put it down Mummy" was the first thing he said when he saw the new baby. For years it was the same, and he never wanted anything to do with his brother. It broke my heart as ds2 idolised ds1, wanted to wear his clothes, do what he did etc and was always rebuffed. We used to talk to ds1 about it from time to time as he got older, but to no avail.

Then all of a sudden, when they were fifteen and thirteen, ds1 started taking the time to play with ds1 and talk to him. Now they are sixteen and fourteen, and good friends, although they are chalk and cheese.

Your sons' bickering sounds like normal childhood nonsense, that hopefully they will grow out of as they mature. If you keep talking to them about their behaviour, and how it upsets you, eventually, like Chinese water torture, your advice will have an effect. It's drip drip drip though.