It's time to admit defeat and get someone else involved - DD is miserable, DH and I have no idea what to do for the best

[SendReceive]

DD is nearly 13 and for the past few months has been harder and harder to handle. Lately we have had to get tough with punishments as a result of a long series of problems, mostly at school, egged on by her friends.

Yesterday she rang after school to say she wasn't coming home, then rolled in at 9.15pm. DH and I were beside ourselves with worry. She said she'd been with a schoolfriend until 6.30 then she hung around in town before catching the last bus home.

She said it was to get away from us. That she has no freedom (true, but she had freedom before, abused it and we had to restrict it), not being allowed make up (temporarily) is ruining her life (she isn't very confident about her looks) and anywhere would be better than here.

This morning she apologised before going to school. I have left a message with our GP asking for advice. Are we doing the right thing, and what else can we do?

[Hassled]

Firstly - don't panic! 13 year olds are notoriously hard work, it doesn't last forever, your nice little girl is still in there somewhere and you'll see her again.

But you need to make some effort to meet her half-way; I really don't think the strict disciplinarian approach works at this age. It's much more productive to allow some freedoms in exchange for respect and communication from her - so she can do X as long as she keeps you informed about Y and stops doing Z. Negotiate.

But pick your battles and don't do things that she will only ever see as grossly unfair. The make-up thing is not a good move, especially if she's insecure re her looks (which does matter when you're 13). Make-up is a supportive crutch when you're that age - let her have it.

But as you're worried - I think you should call the school and ask for contact details for the Parent Support Adviser. The PSAs I've come across are a supportive bunch and a wealth of sources of information.

[SendReceive]

Thank you, Hassled

She came home late today (no afternoon classes) because she and friends got into trouble for being late to a lesson. I am sick to the back teeth of all this, it's never-ending.

I have spoken to her school's equivalent of a PSA about specific incidents but will ask him about sources of help for us all.

FWIW I agree about the make up but DH doesn't see it that way (he took it away and thinks that giving it back now after yesterday's performance is tantamount to encouraging that kind of behaviour).

[Oblomov]

Send, how long has this been going on ? I bet ages. You sound fed up. Like she hasn't responded to your previous discipline attempts.
I agree with Hassled, but also your dh. She needs make up,, but then she shouldn't be offered it on a plate after yesterday. tricky.

[Buda]

How about a family confab? You, DH and her. She gets to say whatever it is that is bothering her without interruption. You listen. Then you (one of you not both or it will seem like you are ganging up on her) tell her how it seems from your side and what is bothering you.

The you agree some ground rules. And you agree punishments for any breaking of the rules. You ask her how she thinks she should be punished.

[mrspnut]

I'd do the family meeting thing, set the rules all together and then let her set the punishments. She then can't complain about any punishment that she gets because she set them.

I too have a 13 year old and it does seem like it's never ending but we have a certain level of respect that she has to maintain and she also has to let up know where she is but we aren't on her case all the time and it makes the house run a lot smoother.

[ThatVikRinA22]

sometimes the more you tighten the screws the more they rebel.

id echo picking your battles. it sounds like pretty standard 13 year old fare to me tbh.

its a good sign that she apologised. why not sit down with her and try to reach a compromise. if she isnt confident about her looks then she will think removing her make up is the biggest nastiest thing you can do and she will rail against it,

what exactly is the bad behaviour at school? and how are they dealing with it? is she being punished twice for the same things?

[seeker]

What sort of thing does she get up to at school? I have a 14 year old, and the behaviour would have to be EXTREME before I considered taking her make-up away! Phone, tv time, facebook - all these would go before her make-up.

Wihout a few more details I don;t think I could help much, but it doesn't sound like GP territory to me.

[mumblechum]

I think you and your dh need to start treating her with a bit more respect tbh, sounds like you're treating her like a little child, and the stricter you are with her the more she's going to stay away from you.

You need to sit round the table and negotiate with her.

[tatt]

agree - not gp territory yet, sounds like normal teenage drama queen. She's growing up, she apologised and she does need time away from you.

Schools here don't permit make-up but ignore it if subtle. If it's outside school then I suggest giving it her back "because you apologised".

Taking their phone away is a good punishment but if they need to communicate with you substituting a basic model (if you have one, worth keeping one) is nearly as embarrassing for them.

Does she do any washing/ironing etc yet? If not "you want to act like an adult you need to do...." is also a good punishment.

Any youngish family members (cousins?) to act as mediators? We have a very useful cousin who is older, responsible and still young enough to have influence

[SendReceive]

Right I will talk to DH about the make up, and try to make him see how important it is.

At school she has been sneaking out at lunchtimes or free periods (not allowed - got detention), and had endless notes from teachers about her behaviour in class which we must see and sign. Some of them she says aren't fair (poss true) but her behaviour has attracted the attention of several teachers who now pull her up on the slightest thing so not entirely unfair.

She can be astoundingly selfish and does like drama, so we try not to respond to it. I do find it hard to keep my mouth shut when riled though, despite knowing that less is more when it comes to telling off.

I don't agree that we are treating her like a child though. She had plenty of freedom before, we had to curb it when she started taking unreasonable (for a 12yo) liberties.

She is much calmer now, and has done all her homework. Will try to have a constructive talk later.

[SendReceive]

To clarify - I'm not taking her to the GP, he is a friend and I am asking if he knows anyone (child/teen psychologist or whatever) we could see if necessary.

Not sure what to do about the phone. The only time I've needed to contact her to ask where the hell she was she didn't pick up, so confiscating it wasn't a difficult choice given that she wasn't using it for its primary purpose.

The make up was getting silly, far too much for a 12yo, so her having it back comes with the proviso that it stays subtle. School have no rule about it so it's tough because some of her friends cake it on.

[tatt]

is she helping in the house? If not its time she started. What about money - mine would lose their allowance for problems at school because they are expected to work for their allowance and that means doing their schoolwork, including homework.

Where does she go to get away from you? Things like guides/scouts/ sports/ community service for DofE/ attending a youth club/ St Johns/ Air cadets or other clubs would be time away from you but with responsible adults.

Personally I'd try to get the school to introduce a make-up policy.

[SendReceive]

Tatt - no not much, but she does what I ask her to do - table laying and suchlike. She has long days so not much time on school evenings.

Out of school she only does tennis and that is only 1 hour a week. DH and I were saying only yesterday that she really needs a more absorbing hobby but again time is a bit of an issue.

An effort-related allowance would be a good idea at some stage, but not yet, she tends not to use her money very wisely (too many sweets,mainly)

[seeker]

I'm still a bit puzzled. Why do you think you need to talk to a child psychologist? Am I missing something?

[Bonsoir]

First, give her her make-up back pronto. It is a cruel and inappropriate way of punishing her. 99% of teenagers are insecure about their looks/appearance and you need to be encouraging her to make the most of herself, not punishing her for trying, however clumsily or haphazardly she might be doing so. What's her hair like? How about taking her to the hairdresser for a new style, as a peace offering and bonding exercise?

If she is staying out late to get away from you, think long and hard about why she dislikes being at home so much. You never know, she might just be right and you might be very difficult company for her.

[SendReceive]

The psych was a desperate thought mid crisis because at times like that communication is impossible and we obviously aren't getting through to each other so we wondered if she would talk to a neutral 3rd party. This afternoon has been much better though and when DH is home we will talk.

I have said I agree about the make up and will be telling DH why (again). She mentioned her hair recently so I will make her an appointment.

She doesn't dislike being at home all the time, we do in fact all get on pretty well when she isn't driving us to distraction.

[ThatVikRinA22]

going to the gp or psych is way OTT. all she is doing is getting detention and pushing the boundries a bit - thats normal and doenst really need psycho analysing imo. the implication that she needs psychiatric input will not help with her self esteem.

every family has trouble communicating the heat of an argument.

[tatt]

her days can't be that long if she was able to stay out after school with a friend/ hanging round town. Think hard about the long days and discuss with her how you make room in them for work and fun.

ALL teenagers need time away from their parents, some are just more open about saying it

Let her see that being an adult means not doing exactly as she pleases but that she will need to do lots of other things too. Time to start her training for when she leaves home and has to manage to cook/shop/wash/iron/clean as well as study.

[scaryteacher]

My mum took my eye shadow away from me for a term when I was 13 because I'd been wearing it to school when I shouldn't have been - I learned my lesson and didn't do it again.

If she is Year 8, she doesn't need the make up, and her behaviour needs to be nipped in the bud in and out of school. I agree with the helping around the house things and it may be worth giving her a chores list. Once those are done she either gets some money/computer time/time to be with friends outside the home, but you need to have a strict time for her to be home and if she misses it, then she has to earn back the right to be allowed out again.

In school, they may be able to put her on monitoring for behaviour, turning up to lessons and how she does with her work. Ime, it focusses the attention as each teacher has to sign and comment each lesson.

I will get flamed for this, but I don't see my role as being my child's friend. I'm a parent and the adult and I set the boundaries. If we get along fine and have fun together then that is a bonus, but my job is to bring up a responsible, pleasant and functioning member of society and that means saying no firmly at times and explaining why, and then sticking to my guns thereafter.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

SendReceive

When did all this start with your DD?.

Parentline Plus are a good organisation to talk to, may be more beneficial than the GP as well.

Link to their website is below:-

www.parentlineplus.org.uk

Scaryteacher - I agree fully with your last paragraph in its entireity.